07:00:00 <sledges> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 6th May 2021
07:00:01 <sailbot> Meeting started Thu May  6 07:00:00 2021 UTC. The chair is sledges. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
07:00:01 <sailbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
07:00:07 <sledges> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:
07:00:12 <sledges> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-6th-may-2021/5985
07:00:16 <sledges> I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. May revenge of the 6th be with you, always, and please respect the timings.
07:00:31 <sledges> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info
07:00:46 <sledges> #info Simonas Leleiva -- privateer for Jolla
07:00:47 <ViGe> #info Ville Nummela - Sailor @ Jolla
07:01:04 <Nico[m]> #info Nico, community
07:01:30 <Thaodan> #info Björn Bidar - Sailor @ Jolla
07:01:33 <jpetrell> #info Joona Petrell, sailor
07:01:40 <dcaliste> #info Damien Caliste, community
07:02:20 <ExTechOp> #info Otto Mäkelä, community
07:03:03 <karry> #info Lukáš Karas - community developer
07:03:12 <pketo> #info Pami Ketolainen - Sailor @ Jolla
07:03:12 <flypig> #info David Llewellyn-Jones - Sailor @ Jolla
07:04:28 * sledges jolla 6:4 community
07:05:10 <abranson> #info Andrew Branson - sailing by
07:05:10 <sledges> any more goals?:)
07:05:43 <rubdos[ma]> #info Ruben De Smet - voting for community
07:05:51 <veskuh> #info Vesa-Matti Hartikainen, Sailor @ Jolla
07:06:14 <sledges> a whooping 8:5 victory by jolla :D
07:06:19 <sledges> #topic Legality of distribution of /system and /vendor images for Sony OpenDevices (10 min -- asked by rinigus)
07:06:30 <sledges> #info <rinigus> In the build guide for Xperia 10II, there is a phrase regarding distribution of binaries:
07:06:35 <Thaodan> sledges: there are a few on Telegram side of the meeting
07:06:46 <Nico[m]> That's a lot of people today!
07:06:53 <sledges> Thaodan: there are silent lurkers here too, but we are counting introductions;)
07:07:01 <sledges> #info <rinigus>     Please do not commit the binaries nor push them to a public repo,
07:07:09 <sledges> #info <rinigus>     because the license has not been determined,
07:07:17 <sledges> #info <rinigus>     thus they have to be built manually
07:07:24 <sledges> #info <rinigus> Legality of distribution of /system and /vendor was also questioned by @sledges in the recent Community meeting (at 07:42:50)
07:07:28 <sledges> #link https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2021/sailfishos-meeting.2021-04-22-06.59.log.html
07:07:32 <sledges> #info <rinigus> In my understanding, it is legal to distribute AOSP bits as they are built from open source projects and, in the case of Sony OpenDevices, there are separate OEM binaries that are distributed exclusively via Sony.
07:07:43 <sledges> #info <rinigus> So, to resolve the mystery around distribution and make conditions clear, let me approach the topic from another angle.
07:07:54 <sledges> #info <rinigus> Namely, I would expect that the same limitations in distribution of binaries that include /system and /vendor partition should apply to us, community members, as well as Jolla.
07:08:06 <sledges> #info <rinigus> Hence the question: On which legal grounds does Jolla distribute builds of Sony Xperia devices within its Sailfish X program?
07:08:16 <sledges> #info <rinigus> Jolla has a site from which we can download such binaries as well as provide them via RPMs downloadable on devices as a part of updates (mentioned in the same meeting and available via log linked above). From that, I conclude that legal aspects were studied and resolved. Please share that with the community, so we would not be confused about the status of the distribution.
07:08:40 <sledges> phew now that was a lengthy one:) rinigus is probably not around, but here comes the answer
07:08:48 <sledges> #info <Jolla> All Sony-related software distributed by Jolla is free and open-source software built from sources. Proprietary parts are downloaded from Sony website.
07:09:10 <piggz> #info piggz, community porter/dev/lurker
07:09:32 <rinigus> Morning, I can just pass by mainly
07:09:43 <rinigus> Thank you for reply
07:09:52 <santhoshm> #info Santhosh Manikandan Community
07:10:05 <Nico[m]> 8:7
07:10:43 <rinigus> Does it mean that it is legal to distribute sony aosp builds and the phrase from xperia ii readme should be deleted?
07:10:53 <Thaodan> Note in Android 10 /odm is a distinguishable partition used by all vendors: destingh
07:11:04 <Thaodan> https://source.android.com/devices/bootloader/partitions/odm-partitions
07:11:16 <rinigus> And sledges should not confuse us in future?
07:11:31 <sledges> rinigus: i'm just a messenger :P
07:12:10 <lbt_> #nfo David Greaves - delayed sailor :)
07:12:17 <Thaodan> rinigus: Note on the name, a sledge does not talk
07:12:24 <sledges> rinigus: sorry about resulting confusion, the message was also been abiding the policy of pushing only-binaries to a github repo considered bad practice
07:12:38 <rinigus> Ok rephrasing: and sledges should not be confused in future?
07:12:49 <rinigus> :)
07:13:11 <sledges> yes, let's hope for the best. many sledges are better than one Thaodan :P
07:13:21 <rinigus> But sounds like all is clear for me, i have nothing to add
07:13:33 <Thaodan> https://source.android.com/devices/bootloader/partitions/odm-partitions could be useful to link for the current situation since blobs should end up there for native Android 10 ports
07:13:47 <sledges> and droid-system licence will have to be rectified -- that was another fly in the ointment, rinigus
07:14:01 <Thaodan> sledges: You don't know the real me :p
07:14:49 <sledges> Thaodan: lol I actually meant "s/ Thaodan/, Thaodan/" :P
07:15:13 <Thaodan> Tz get some coffee
07:15:29 <sledges> starship gave me enough coffee substitute :P
07:15:56 <sledges> rinigus: anything else after the last comment? ^^
07:16:05 <Thaodan> Flying home soon sledges?
07:16:22 <sledges> still quarantine :P
07:16:38 <sledges> will have to self-isolate on Mars
07:17:18 <sledges> silence means consent, moving on
07:17:20 <sledges> #topic Reusing Sailfish icons (10 min -- asked by poetaster)
07:17:26 <rinigus> Sorry, no, nothing. As license spec does not prevent from distribution by jolla, we are ok
07:17:53 <sledges> #info <poetaster> Apps often need very specific icons that are not readily available from the system (although the existing collection is pretty great). Most could easily be created by building on existing icons, though. For launcher icons, there is (was?) the “icon template” and “icon library” under CC-BY-3.0
07:17:59 <sledges> #link https://www.jollausers.com/2014/01/sailfish-os-application-icon-story/
07:18:03 <sledges> #info <poetaster> Can Jolla please consider releasing the other icons in a reusable fashion too (say, CC-BY-xx together with vector (SVG) sources for best reusability)? This would make beautifully integrated app development and design much easier.
07:18:25 <sledges> is poetaster around in any ethereal shape or form?:)
07:19:45 <sledges> ah they're also representing ichtyosaurus, neither of them around:)
07:19:49 <sledges> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/license-of-system-icons-can-we-reuse-them/5975/2
07:19:58 <sledges> here's the answer
07:19:59 <sledges> #info <Jolla> Publishing the icons is sensible request, but we need to look licensing of the asset holistically. Making any changes is something we carefully asses and therefore we cannot promise any quick progress.
07:21:44 <sledges> moving swiftly on:)
07:22:15 <sledges> #topic General discussion (15 min)
07:22:37 <Nico[m]> License questions, every time :D
07:23:22 <ExTechOp> What are the things that have taken most of the developer's time recently?
07:23:45 <Nico[m]> Btw, has Jolla ever looked at the Jolla store as a revenue source? For developers and Jolla?
07:23:59 <Nico[m]> ExTechOp: Trying to become harbour compatible .-.
07:24:20 <ExTechOp> Nico[m] What are the issues there?
07:24:58 <Nico[m]> Mostly that I am using APIs not allowed, like the bubble background and some media stuff, although I can get rid of the latter
07:25:14 <Nico[m]> Also I wanted to use sailfish secrets, which probably also isn't allowed yet
07:25:51 <flypig> Didn't the Jolla Store support one of the "tipping" services once, for users to give donations to devs?
07:26:09 <Nico[m]> Yes, but I think that got removed
07:26:11 <Thaodan> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/secret-storage-spec/secrets-api-0.1.html
07:26:22 <Nico[m]> I would love to have something like that bag though
07:26:36 <flypig> Nico[m], yes, it was removed and I'm sure there was a good reason for it, but I don't recall.
07:27:11 <jpetrell> we are working on allowing more APIs in the Store
07:27:11 <Nico[m]> Didn't flattr just stop existing or so?
07:27:24 <jpetrell> flattr terms changed if I recall
07:27:40 <Nico[m]> Ah, yeah, could be
07:27:49 <rubdos[ma]> <Nico[m] "Btw, has Jolla ever looked at th"> Maybe integrating with Liberapay? I find that relatively nice to use...
07:27:52 <pketo> there was flattr link support in store, but flattr changed in a way that thad didn't really work anymore
07:27:53 <ExTechOp> Does anyone know of a "make the keyboard space bar wider" patch that has been updated to work with SFOS 4.0, I really make lots of typos with the fairly narrow spacebar we now have?
07:28:07 <Nico[m]> Ruben De Smet, I was just about to say that!
07:29:06 <Nico[m]> Thaodan, does sailfish secrets just use that same API?
07:30:19 <flypig> Liberapay looks nice.
07:30:40 <sledges> in other developments:
07:30:42 <sledges> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/migrating-sailfish-os-git-repos-to-github/6141
07:30:55 <rubdos[ma]> <flypig "Liberapay looks nice."> And the Sailfish community is very willing to give: https://liberapay.com/rubdos/
07:32:09 <dcaliste> sledges, I would have definetely prefered a migration to gitlab.com... My productivity will drop ! It's hard to follow what's going on in Github.
07:32:17 <flypig> rubdos[ma], that doesn't surprise me, but it's good to know, and I'm glad you're being rewarded for your work.
07:32:20 <Nico[m]> Bah, I still dislike GitHub vs self hosted gitlab, but sadly it is really hard to allow outsiders to contribute on self hosted gitlab ._.
07:32:39 <sledges> dcaliste: we already had quite many packages on gh/sailfishos+mer-hybris
07:32:50 <rubdos[ma]> <Nico[m] "Bah, I still dislike GitHub vs s"> Federation for Gitlab would be really cool
07:33:28 <lbt_> gitlab has also been a burden to maintain
07:33:35 <Nico[m]> Ruben De Smet, I'll probably build git hosting on Matrix faster than Gitlab starts working on that issue :3
07:33:44 <rubdos[ma]> lol
07:33:47 <Nico[m]> lbt_, yes, it can be :D
07:34:02 <dcaliste> Yes, sure sledges, but that's my point : I cannot follow easily what's going on with them because there is no "watch" for a group in Github, only for projects, and I won't click on watch on all of the hosted project of the group.
07:34:15 <ExTechOp> Has anyone else had issues with he UI "missing" icon clicks? When trying to start applications (or open icon folders), mine seems to quite often lose the first attempt to click the icon.
07:34:35 <dcaliste> I know easily what's going on in middleware from git.sailfishos.org, and I can contribute.
07:34:40 <Nico[m]> ExTechOp: Make sure your palm isn't on the screen
07:34:57 <lbt_> dcaliste: that is true
07:35:08 <dcaliste> In Github, I've only contributed to the project I needed to for whatever reason, because there is no way to know what's going on there.
07:35:14 <ExTechOp> Nico[m] It's just Sailfish, not any other part of the OS. It's rather strange.
07:35:15 <dcaliste> Except for the watched projects...
07:35:42 <lbt_> dcaliste: I wonder if there's a way to replicate that via the api
07:35:48 <jpetrell> ExTechOp: what device and OS version are you using?
07:36:30 <jpetrell> so your issue is limited to App Grid panel where apps are launched?
07:36:33 <Nico[m]> Oh, one issue I have been having recently, is that my networking stops working and then when I try to restart the phone, it just hangs there (Xperia X Compact). So I need to unplug the battery. Is there any way around that?
07:37:02 <jpetrell> Nico: turning flight mode on and off sometimes helps reset network without device reboot
07:37:04 <ExTechOp> SFOS (Koli) on Sony Xperia XA2 Ultra
07:37:18 <jpetrell> and sailfish utilities has connman restart button if I recall
07:37:35 <Nico[m]> jpetrell: Well, I tried the "Restart Networking" from utilites and it just hung the settings page
07:37:36 <dcaliste> lbt: I tried in the past to search on the Internet what can be done with Github to replicate the activity from Gitlab, but I was not very successful...
07:37:44 <jpetrell> Nico[m]: ouch
07:38:26 <jpetrell> Nico[m]: if you haven't already report the issue on Sailfish Forum
07:38:34 <lbt_> dcaliste: :/
07:38:37 <Nico[m]> It feels like the networking firmware crashes...
07:39:07 <Nico[m]> jpetrell: Will do, although I think there is a report I can attach myself to already. I saw someone mentioning that before
07:39:15 <lbt_> There are, for sure, downsides to the move to github but life is full of non-trivial decisions
07:39:16 <Nico[m]> Maybe my hardware is just dying .-.
07:39:55 <Nico[m]> lbt_: You say that, but it would be trivial to update the Qt version and open-source every part of Sailfish!
07:40:27 <lbt_> Nico[m]: I was going to do that this morning but I decided to have a nap instead :D :D
07:40:47 <sledges> dcaliste: lbt: here's an events' API: https://api.github.com/orgs/sailfishos/events
07:40:53 <Nico[m]> So that is holding it up! I knew it! :D
07:41:29 <dcaliste> lbt, yes I guess so. Don't misunderstand me, I'm sure the pro and con have been weighted in the decision. I'm a bit sad that it weighted in that direction, and it will make contribution more difficult, for me.
07:41:50 <dcaliste> sledges, nice, I'll give a look.
07:41:58 <lbt_> me too - I set up gitlab and contributed code for ldap support for Mer :)
07:43:12 <sledges> #link https://api.github.com/orgs/sailfishos/events
07:44:22 <sledges> last but not least, shoutout to flypig for posting another newsletter!
07:44:25 <sledges> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sailfish-community-news-6th-may/6130
07:44:46 <Nico[m]> I feel like that always happens while I'm in a meeting!
07:44:51 <Thaodan> No May the 4th edition :/
07:45:18 <sledges> Nico[m]: you're not wrong there:)
07:45:29 <flypig> Thaodan, yea, missed May 4th I'm afraid.
07:45:35 <flypig> Please post your news under the newsletter so it can be included in the next one.
07:46:05 <sledges> and on this deathstar bombshell, it's time to end
07:46:05 <sledges> #topic Next meeting time and date (5 min)
07:46:06 <dcaliste> lbt, yes, I remember the establishment of the gitlab instance in the middle of the difficult period of the tablet-gate... Anyway, the JSON pointed out by sledges looks promising, besides the fact that I need to write something to display it, or find a tool that does it already...
07:46:09 <sledges> Proposing Thursday 20th May at 7am UTC
07:46:36 <Thaodan> Separate orgs help too
07:47:03 <flypig> 20th May looks good.
07:47:45 <jpetrell> sounds good
07:47:46 <sledges> Thaodan's remark just reminded me: good question what will happen to mer-core ownerships permissions system? a food for thought for next time, cc lbt dcaliste
07:47:49 <sledges> #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 20th May 2021 at 7:00am UTC:  2021-05-20T07Z
07:48:05 <sledges> thanks all!
07:48:06 <sledges> #endmeeting