07:00:01 #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 20th May 2021 07:00:01 Meeting started Thu May 20 07:00:01 2021 UTC. The chair is sledges. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 07:00:01 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 07:00:06 #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here: 07:00:11 #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-20th-may-2021/6144 07:00:18 I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. May the 20th be with you, and please respect the timings. 07:00:22 #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info 07:00:34 #info Simonas Leleiva -- privateer for Jolla 07:00:40 #info Otto Mäkelä, community 07:00:46 #info Ville Nummela - Sailor@Jolla 07:01:05 #info Nico, community 07:01:10 #info attah, community, participating passively 07:01:48 * Nico-old-defunct wonders how bad his Nick is on IRC right now and if my messages make it through :D 07:02:00 can hear you 5 by 5 07:02:07 Perfect :D 07:02:21 #info Pami Ketolainen, sailor @ Jolla 07:02:24 you're definitely not defunct:) 07:02:35 One day .-. 07:02:37 #info piggz, community porter, probably heading off on the school run, crazy meeting time :D 07:04:01 #info David Greaves - sailor at Jolla 07:04:46 Small round this time, huh? 07:04:56 #info David Llewellyn-Jones - sailor @ Jolla 07:05:06 #info Lukas Karas - community developer 07:05:21 Next topic is about Freenode's hostile takeover, please avoid/douse flame warsduring discussion:) 07:05:26 To clarify, Freenode is not shutting down as a service, as opposed to the topic title. 07:05:48 #topic Freenode shutting down and how this affects #sailfish channels (15 min -- asked by Nico-young-spirited) 07:05:59 Hm, I did not intend to imply that, my bad :D 07:06:12 I just copied it from somewhere 07:06:20 rename? ;) especially to those who might be joining and seeing topic title:) 07:06:24 #undo 07:06:24 Removing item from minutes: 07:06:44 "Freenode under new management"? 07:06:45 #topic Freenode has been 'hostilely taken over' and how this affects #sailfish channels (15 min -- asked by Nico-young-spirited) 07:06:49 Freenode being "taken over" and how this affect sailfish? 07:06:55 if that's even a word:) 07:06:55 Yeah, sounds right 07:07:03 #info Most of the Freenode staff left after a hostile takeover and founded libera.chat yesterday. For context see the forum thread 07:07:13 #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/freenode-hostile-takeover/6388 07:07:21 #info and 07:07:22 #link https://www.kline.sh 07:07:32 #info Sailfish has used Freenode for communication for a long time (including this meeting). Will those channels move to libera, stay on Freenode or even some alternative, like Matrix? Where will the next meeting be? 07:07:47 #info Depending on how further events will unravel, we have at least three alternatives: libera.chat, oftc.net, and Matrix. 07:08:03 #info Dear community, do you know which one of these has the friendliest infra to have sailbot running (channel logs and meeting minutes), as well as for deploying Telegram/IRC/Matrix bridge bots? 07:09:29 I believe Matrix is still kinda experimental, and porting the channel with bridge bots would require a fair amount of work from "someone"? 07:09:40 #info Björn Bidar - sailor @ Jolla 07:10:10 I'm part of the Matrix community, developing Nheko and Konheko. While matrix does not have sailbot, it is pretty easy to write your own bots there and the Telegram bridge is exceptional 07:10:33 Matrix is nice but the clients are not as good as for IRC 07:10:49 Bridging a Matrix room to IRC generally works, both via matrix-ircd and the irc-appservice, iirc 07:11:02 That would a step backwards 07:11:08 But the other direction is usually more common 07:11:14 we have developed matrix bots internally 07:11:22 Nico-old-defunct: matrix-ircd is alpha state at best 07:11:24 they have improved recently 07:11:34 (FTR, I'm messaging from Matrix) 07:11:55 Thaodan: The usual appsevice bridge should work fine though too? 07:12:27 Nico-old-defunct: sure it does, if the libera.chat or OFTC or something has that fine 07:13:10 libera is still being set up, since the libera staff is currently a bit busy and we didn't want to bother them too much. There is a meeting to talk details this weekend 07:13:27 Sounds good. 07:13:32 oftc is running for a while already 07:14:01 I can move my Telegram bridge to either. OFTC is used by many other projects including GCC, QEMU and Bitlbee. 07:14:28 (You just join #oftc_#channelnamehere:matrix.org, and you can join pretty much all IRC channels there) 07:15:30 We also have the option to just wait and see a bit. I think Qt is still discussing it, but the named Matrix, libera and oftc as options. KDE seems to be moving to libera, but uses Matrix already too, etc 07:16:18 I guess easiest thing to do on short notice would be to switch to some other irc network. From Jolla side that would be just about registering the channels and pointing the sailbot there 07:17:13 the channel placeholders on oftc have already been registered to avoid takeovers 07:17:33 Long term something like Matrix may be nice, since it allows you to setup a space, where you can link multiple rooms, which helps discoverability, you can easily send images and other files and in general is probably easier to use for the younger crowd. 07:17:36 whatever is chosen, please think about mal https://xkcd.com/1782/ 07:18:33 he is not the only one :D Communi is still one of the best options for messaging on Sailfish OS with bitlbee :D 07:19:05 libera has an official policy of how to claim channel names, which should be easy enough to do for something like Sailfish: https://libera.chat/chanreg 07:19:30 I would prefer IRC as well. I think OFTC is a good candidate, but then again I think we don't have to move over right now. We could just wait a bit, let the dust settle. 07:19:47 as long as we already have read-write IRC/Matrix bridge, the switch to Matrix could take place at any point in the future. short term is just to choose an IRC network 07:19:56 ViGe, that's something someone on IRC would say! 07:20:27 ViGe: The dust/freenode-staff already moved 07:20:50 Nico-old-defunct: Or someone that wants better matrix clients.. 07:20:58 Having switched to matrix I have to say I overall prefer it to irc. The resistance I felt was more unwillingness to change from the layout I was used to :D 07:21:03 I guess we have to decide between oftc and libera then? 07:21:31 let's hope this Freenodegate will trigger someone to write a decent text-based matrix client with e2e :) 07:21:43 sledges: Like gomuks? 07:22:00 for example:)) 07:22:14 matrix-ircd is an option when it is further in progress, it is rust based but hey. 07:22:23 (weechat also seems to be an option) 07:22:25 Also there is weechat-matrix 07:22:52 Thaodan, I think as long as we bridge to an existing server, the irc-appservice is the better choice 07:23:24 So we could just pick an IRC network now, and then later move primary to Matrix, but still have all the channels on that network 07:23:39 Nico-old-defunct: true just pointing out for those that need matrix e.g. to connect to mozilla 07:23:52 Nico-old-defunct: the question holds: will a chosen IRC network support all desired bridges and bots 07:24:17 Right, no idea about bots and bridges on IRC sadly ._. 07:24:55 from the irc network options, I would maybe not jump to libera yet at this point. as it is new and setup by the other party in a still slightly unclear situation. (at least it is a bit unclear to me what has happenend. been trying to gather information from both sides) 07:24:57 Matrix is awesome! And so are Nico's clients, haha 07:25:10 thanks ;p 07:26:02 sailbot shouldn't really care to what irc network it is talking to 07:26:29 ok, thanks for all the gathered info, we have plenty to digest; we can now move on to SFOS 4.1.0 EA discussion:) 07:26:34 #topic General discussion (15 min) 07:26:38 pketo: https://lwn.net/Articles/856543/#Comments 07:26:41 Sounds good :3 07:26:56 pketo: worth registering though 07:27:00 sledges that link ^ might help 07:27:10 (previous topic) 07:27:17 one topic for me ... well, a few, OBS.... 4.1 and aarch64 :) 07:27:27 So we stick to freenode for now and then make a decision in the future, while we gather info about which network supports our setups? 07:27:37 #link https://lwn.net/Articles/856543/#Comments 07:28:02 Nico-old-defunct: certainly cannot make a decision today 07:28:11 Certainly :3 07:28:57 4.1 is nice, and with new fancy hardware it's even better 07:29:06 \o/ 07:29:10 Yeah, I've really enjoyed it on Xperia 10 II 07:29:24 Thank you so much for working on this! Great OS 07:29:27 battery life is something else:) 07:29:28 Anyway, about 4.1.0, I've installed it on my shiny, new and blue X10 II. When typing it feels like the vibration by the haptic motor is about twice as long as it should be 07:29:53 Do you have more or less an ETA on Exchange? Sadly I've had to flash Android back because I need it for work :( 07:29:54 Nico-old-defunct: the motor is more intert in general 07:30:08 * Nico-old-defunct googles intert 07:30:13 Nico-old-defunct: You mean actually doing the vibrations intended? 07:30:14 s/intert/inert 07:30:22 Ah 07:30:47 attah_w: The problem is that it doesn't feel like a click, it vibrates 07:31:01 diego[m]4: is vibra motor haptics feedback brief enough in android now that you flashed it? 07:31:04 Similar to before, no? 07:31:19 Yeah, I just notice it more now 07:31:30 I feel it is more precise 07:31:32 I feel like it should be shorter, but the same intensity 07:31:42 I always turn it off because it drives me crazy, it's too strong on this phone 07:32:07 BTW... can someone wake up developer-care? 07:32:11 ok, so probably it just can't spin in shorter bursts 07:32:15 I didn't notice it being longer in SFOS. It's just quite a strong one both in Android and SFOS 07:32:54 sledges: I think it span shorter, when I still had the phone on Android. Or at least it didn't feel like a vibration, but more like a click? 07:33:08 Maybe I am imagining things :D 07:33:18 attah_w: what do you mean by "wake up developer-care"? you have sent email but haven't received a reply? 07:33:30 yes, SeaPrint is stuck in some weird state in harbour 07:33:34 Ok I've just turned it on with the default setting 07:33:36 sent an email a week ago 07:33:38 Sony Xperia 10 II support has been "coming soon" for a while now, anyone in the know care to offer an estimate on when soon is? 07:34:01 ExTechOp: I mean, it is in beta now, so probably end of EA 07:34:34 The intensity of vibration varies: goes from soft if you're not typing fast to quite strong if you're typing a lot. I don't recall it being too different in SFOS, but maybe I'm not remembering correctly 07:34:36 diego[m]4: if you type extremely quickly, does it just spin? 07:35:03 Not quite 07:35:27 It's almost at that level, but you can still feel it's individual bursts even when typing quickly 07:35:33 Nico-old-defunct End of episodic ataxia? https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/ea 07:35:38 I'm turning it off now, horrible feedback, hahaha 07:35:48 well if you an always tell a tap from a double tap, then hopefully sfos can be improved still 07:36:14 ExTechOp: More like early access, which 4.1.0 is in right now, but yes ;p 07:36:21 unless stock android has some closed blobs that even aosp doesn't get hands on :p 07:36:25 :-D 07:36:26 attah_w: sorry about that. We will look at it. 07:36:43 ViGe thanks! 07:37:14 So Sony just has bad haptic engines? :D 07:37:31 depends on SoC and how expensive the motor was 07:38:06 Hm, on my X compact the haptics are super weak, but at least it is clearly one tap 07:38:36 they may have balanced the funds to have OLED display, but then had to save on other hw bits 07:38:57 I mean, that would make sense, but also is a bit sad :D 07:39:01 if only we could bring sneak-peek mode on this OLED 8) 07:39:06 At least the screen is gorgeus! 07:39:30 I want my always on clock back :3 07:39:54 I've been waiting for an OLED screen since my N9! 07:40:00 same here 07:41:13 yep 07:41:40 Also, can I make the phone smaller somehow? It feels sooo big ;p 07:42:08 Hahaha, it's quite big, yes 07:42:12 And when do we get support for the different cameras in the camera app? 07:42:14 But it's also quite narrow, I like that 07:42:22 Grow bigger hands? (: 07:42:31 wasn't sony bringing the compact range this/next year, to rival that mini iphone again 07:42:35 It is a bit too long for my pockets, it always peeks out at the top .-. 07:42:55 sledges: I heard that, but I didn't see anything actually happening 07:43:06 Maybe it was just wishful thinking 07:43:08 sledges only rumors, right? 07:43:14 https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/sony-xperia-5-iii-price-release-date-features-specs-4131969 07:43:23 Also the iPhone mini didn't sell that well, no? 07:43:36 Old geezers like myself enjoy bigger screens, as you can make the fonts reasonably bigger to compensate for presbyopia 07:44:24 Isn't the 5III the same size as the 10 approximately? 07:44:51 at least for the II-range they are 07:45:32 I think they are both 6 inches, so the 5III is not really compact 07:45:37 looks like they removed the word 'compact' from the rest of the article :p 07:46:16 I mean, the 10 is barely wider than my X compact, but the length is noticeable and it doesn't balance as well in my hand 07:46:34 I always am scared it will tip over .-. 07:46:40 And I need to reposition my hands quite often 07:46:52 Buuuut, I guess nothing anyone here can do about that :D 07:47:58 Now someone just needs to recompile all the software for aarch64... Still missing a great audio player and some games ;p 07:48:17 piggz: you were sayin' OBS 4.1.0 and aarch64?.. 07:49:42

Including your matrix client 😂 07:50:02 That one I will do tomorrow 07:50:24 Great! 07:50:26 I have the hardware now, just need to do a presentation later today, which I still need to prepare 07:51:19 Guess I'll port https://github.com/sailfishapps/heebo then too 07:51:31 Anything on this? 07:52:06 I think the proprietary bits were planned for 4.1.0 stable 07:53:24 that's right 07:54:07 Btw, if the original author of a harbour app is not active anymore, what would the process look like to take over maintainership? 07:54:19 be patient, we're ironing some wrinkles, so stable is better than ever 07:55:35 Nico-old-defunct: The process goes that you ask the old maintainer to write to us and ask for the transfer of the maintainership 07:56:18 Off-late, 4.1 EA is one of the stable releases. It didn't have any breaking issues. Credits for that team. 07:56:22 Okay, sounds good. Maybe they are still active, but with the last update in 2016, I just wanted to know what the other option was :3 07:57:07 Nico-old-defunct: just ping them:) 07:57:08 sledges: any update on plan for OBS .... repo hosting? 07:57:21 sledges: any plan to fix aarch64 on obs? 07:57:37 (eg, i could do wth packaging amazfish and advanced-cam for aarch64) 07:57:44 sledges: That is the plan. I'm just looking through all the apps I'm missing atm :3 07:59:10 piggz: I've been really busy recently so I haven't had time to dig into why aarch64 isn't working 07:59:32 I'm thinking that I need to bite the bullet and upgrade the OBS version there 07:59:46 rinigus' tbuilder in the meantime?:) 08:01:30 for tumbleweed and cuppa tea times, don't forget https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sailfish-community-news-20th-may/6380 :) kudos to flypig again! 08:01:41 sledges: yes, however, for amazfish, i need to pacakge versions fo different releases dues to libicu ... and while tbuilder can do the build, i cant host them anywhere 08:01:55 lbt: that would be great :) 08:02:29 yup, should be walk in the park to build amazfish and friends with tbuilder. As for hosting.. openrepos? 08:03:11 ViGe: open repos doesnt support different packages for different versions 08:03:18 ViGe: openrepos is different than obs repos just flat repos 08:03:22 no chance to hack it together with dlopen/dlsym? 08:03:27 unless i create a seperate account for each arch/version, and that would suck 08:03:53 piggz ping me about repos 08:04:04 I can host them for you 08:04:08 would it be possible to add such capability to openrepos? 08:04:38 i.e. custom dir structure repo upload (or simply, hosting directory access to an uploader) 08:04:39 openrepos is like harbour with less restrictions not the best place for that 08:04:59 all one needs is a directory with repomd.xml 08:05:28 just brainstorming about practical alternatives when obs goes under 08:05:33 Thaodan: thx, i know you are offering something ... though, its still extra work to build and upload, which is what OBS does automatically, adding to the long lst of things im doing 08:06:04 sledges: when obs goes under ... pls try not to move burden of packaging/hosting onto devs 08:06:13 piggz: true however there is no fix for that except rsync source -> dest 08:06:29 piggz: try to move that burden to tbuilder by extending it? 08:06:38 I mean, packaging is easy enough, hosting is complicated for me 08:06:52 piggz: is the call to libicu directly from your code? 08:07:02 so tbuilder just uploads everything creating ver/arch struture 08:07:07 It would be great if openrepos supported multiple versions though :3 08:07:21 (And harbour) 08:07:44 attah_w: the kexi libraries use libicu 08:07:58 so no 08:08:16 okay :/ 08:08:17 also don't use hacks that sounds horrible 08:08:44 btw, lbt pketo, is #mer-boss still alive on freenode? 08:09:01 mmm it should be 08:09:11 something to keep in mind when we do irc switchover then 08:09:18 sorry, im 'a little' late. As I read on Telegram and now want to add a note. I have a Sony Case for the 10 II and if I open it the screen turns on. That is nice. Now if it is locked its all fine. But if it is already unlocked i can't forward to the next screen with the power button/fingerprint. So if I set to lock after some minuits in the menu I have to swipe sometimes and use the fingerprint sometimes. Is that intended? 08:09:20 yes 08:09:51 sledges: tbuilder on a cloud platform would be acceptable ... one of the best obs features for a porter is to just trigger all the packages to build, and leave it to it, while closing own computer 08:10:56 Sounds good but with trawbacks e.g. no parallel builds and what is the "cloud" 08:11:00 i understand that ramping down obs is like taking a candy away. can tbuilder be churning on some gitlab CI, just like imageworks? 08:11:17 It could 08:11:50 but again no parallel builds unless there is some CI logic that allows orchestration 08:13:00 sledges: not quite like takng candy ... more like, taking candy, and saying, if you ever want more candy, here are the ingredients ;) 08:15:05 I'm still talking to people internally about the future/timeline for the OBS 08:15:07 Thaodan: can you do parallel builds with tbuilder on own box? 08:16:21 if not, then it doesn't matter if we're talking about cloud or local builds, and that's something that needs solved in order to speed up builds, if becomes a huge time problem 08:16:52 Speaking of automation, any chance for opening up an API for automatically uploading releases to store? 08:16:58 Locally possibly but you need something to trigger jobs - in the end you replicate OBS.. 08:17:14 What would prevent parallel builds on gitlab CI? 08:17:14 Afaik all jobs run parallel by default, if they are in the same stage 08:18:35 Nico-old-defunct: dependency logic - build cycles 08:18:51 Ah, I see 08:19:52 fridlmue: will try to replicate, but just so you know, double tapping fingerprint reader (on any sfos device) unlocks and goes to home screen 08:20:01 same with double-pressing power button (if lock is not set) 08:20:14 will see what changes when magnetic cover is in action though 08:20:57 time to wrap up for today 08:20:59 #topic Next meeting time and date (5 min) 08:21:03 Proposing Thursday 3rd June at 7am UTC 08:21:21 On freenode? ;p 08:21:29 hopefully Freenode storm will have resolved by then in one way or another 08:21:53 Sounds alright 08:22:16 #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 3rd June 2021 at 7:00am UTC: 2021-06-03T07Z 08:22:38 thanks for all the free nodes out there! 08:22:40 sledges: thank you. My observation: If opened and unlocked: Screen is going on to "display on screen" but you cant go to homescreen by anything but swipe. Thanks for investigating! 08:22:48 #endmeeting