07:00:11 <sledges> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 30th September 2021
07:00:11 <sailbot> Meeting started Thu Sep 30 07:00:11 2021 UTC. The chair is sledges. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
07:00:11 <sailbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
07:00:25 <sledges> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:
07:00:28 <sledges> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-30th-september-2021/8043
07:00:41 <sledges> I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and may the half-term not be the main thing in your heads just yet:)
07:00:47 <sledges> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info
07:00:51 <ExTechOp> #info Otto Mäkelä, community
07:00:56 <sledges> #info Simonas Leleiva -- privateer for Jolla
07:01:06 <fridl-m> #info fridlmue - community
07:01:15 <chriadam> #info Chris Adams, privateer @ Jolla
07:01:19 <poetaster> #info poetaster, community
07:01:20 <cartron> #info cartron - community
07:01:23 <dcaliste> #info Damien Caliste, community
07:01:44 <abr> #info Andrew Branson - sailor
07:01:57 <spiiroin> #info Simo Piiroinen - sailor
07:02:08 <lolek> sledges: I added topic today morning, not sure if this will still fit for todays meeting :(
07:02:19 <karry> #info Lukáš Karas - community developer
07:02:29 <jpetrell> #info Joona Petrell - sailor @ Jolla
07:02:53 <ViGe> #info Ville Nummela - sailor @ Jolla
07:03:28 <sledges> lolek: sorry, just like the topic before yours, was after the cut-off time
07:03:43 <lolek> sledges: to bad :(
07:04:07 <sledges> we haven't got time to ping sailors at such short notice, please understand:)
07:04:26 <lolek> sledges: well yeah I'll wait for the next meeting then
07:05:11 <sledges> thanks
07:05:13 <sledges> #topic droidmedia buffer imports and H264 encoding (7.5 min -- asked by fredldotme)
07:05:25 <sledges> #info <fredldotme> I'd like to use droidmedia to encode H264 frames and send them over Miracast using our LGPLv3 licensed component in Ubuntu Touch
07:05:31 <sledges> #link https://github.com/ubports/aethercast
07:05:37 <sledges> #info <fredldotme> It needs an additional API to import ANWB handles, so I'd like to know if there's interest from SailfishOS and talk about details.
07:06:01 <sledges> @fredldotme
07:06:04 <sledges> #info <Jolla> We definitely have interest to follow up on the topic, and our sailors promised to help give pointers during the meeting where they can.
07:07:05 <abr> would be really cool imho
07:07:35 <flypig> #info David Llewellyn-Jones - late and apologetic sailor @ jolla
07:08:15 <poetaster> miracast seems to have mindshare. frankly not my ball park.
07:10:37 <flypig> Can anyone explain how miracast would work for SFOS?
07:10:40 <abr> well, in the absence of fredl, I have a small pointer. Assuming the requirement here is to capture the screen, it might be a good idea to take inspiration from StagefrightRecorder, which the droidmedia recorder is based on. That usually takes input from the camera and passes it directly to the encoder, which is very efficient.
07:10:46 <abr> flypig: screen casting
07:10:56 <flypig> Thanks abr.
07:12:05 <poetaster> I always ask, what about webrtc, but I think that's off topic.
07:12:25 <poetaster> is off topic. sorry.
07:12:35 <flypig> abr, could you provie a link to StagefrightRecorder?
07:12:40 <abr> But it has a second mode which uses the screen as input. If the droidmedia recorder could be extended to do that too, then not only would you be able to cast, but also record the screen. There are apps to do that already on sfos, but I think they capture raw images and don't compress, which isn't ideal
07:12:55 <abr> #link https://cs.android.com/android/platform/superproject/+/master:frameworks/av/media/libmediaplayerservice/StagefrightRecorder.cpp
07:14:02 <abr> poetaster: have a look at the work done in gecko lately. lots of webrtc stuff by @d-grigorev to get excited about in there
07:14:29 <poetaster> thanks!
07:14:58 <flypig> Thanks again abr.
07:15:12 <abr> #info Have a look at the screen recording mode of StagefrightRecorder. The droidmedia recorder could possibly be convinced to do something similar
07:15:26 <sledges> thanks for *pointer abr, we can be moving on swiftly
07:15:31 <sledges> #topic QML App - force SW-keyboard to open when "HW-keyboard" is plugged (7.5 min -- asked by fridlmue)
07:15:31 <d-grigorev[m]> #info Denis Grigorev - sw developer @ OMP
07:15:48 <sledges> #info <fridlmue> When something is plugged to the Phone's USB-Port that appears to be a HID Keyboard, the Software-Keyboard does not pop up. If e. g. a YubiKey is plugged, it seems to be accepted as hid, which is good. But if I want to have user input while the device is plugged I can't. Can I force the keyboard to appear somehow (at best in QML only), also when a "HW-keyboard" is plugged?
07:16:44 <sledges> #info <Jolla> We can certainly see the value(*) of using virtual keyboard with HW keyboard  (also enabling hybrid solutions like using hardware keyboard to type, but still having the virtual prediction bar and emoji layout available on the software).
07:16:59 <sledges> #info <Jolla> You could just unplug USB keyboard (or unpair Bluetooth keyboard) to get the virtual keyboard to show, but unfortunately there is no force option currently supported for cases where unplugging is not an option. Sounds like YubiKey is one case which should not affect the virtual keyboard visibility.
07:17:36 <sledges> #info <Jolla> Other than Gemini what is the use case of why HW keyboard cannot be unplugged? (and Gemini should show SW keyboard when its HW keyboard is slit-closed)
07:18:09 <sledges> the mentioned value footnote:
07:18:10 <sledges> #info <Jolla> (*) HW keyboard being tied to specific character layout, some language inputs require prediction bar (Chinese Pinyin), you may have Bluetooth keyboard paired but prefer to use on-screen keyboard for some quick input task
07:19:48 <fridl-m1> for security keys it requres a lot of pluging and unpluging if you have no keyboard when plugged. Also in the browser.
07:20:23 <fridl-m1> But, however, ill work on a UI telling when to plug or to unplug.
07:20:41 <fridl-m1> thanks for the info. we can move on imho.
07:21:02 <lolek> fridl-m1: well the thing is that if I remmeber correctly, the youbikey is actually a hid device as it's "typing" the input
07:21:54 <jpetrell> here is the logic if somebody wants to have a look https://github.com/sailfishos/maliit-framework/blob/master/maliit-framework/src/mimhwkeyboardtracker.cpp
07:22:10 <fridl-m1> lolek: in general yes, but it hase more than one modes. U2F and some other work in a different way afaik.
07:22:18 <sledges> #info <jpetrell> here is the logic if somebody wants to have a look
07:22:19 <fridl-m1> jpetrell: thanks!
07:22:24 <sledges> #link https://github.com/sailfishos/maliit-framework/blob/master/maliit-framework/src/mimhwkeyboardtracker.cpp
07:22:31 <lolek> fridl-m1: possible, don't have anymore
07:22:40 <jpetrell> mce tells maliit keyboard framework what is the hw keyboard status
07:23:14 <jpetrell> abr had nice idea that when we get to enabling prediction bar for HW keyboards it could have expand/collapse button
07:24:15 <spiiroin> one thing one might also do would be: add mce setting for "ignore hw keyboards", that would turn into "always use sw keyboard" from ui point of view
07:24:45 <fridl-m1> jpetrell: but then also give a text box in silica a property to open the full keyboard allways 😉
07:26:03 <fridl-m1> spiiroin: Also a good idea!
07:26:19 <jpetrell> fridl-m1: what is the use case for text field specific case?
07:27:22 <jpetrell> wonder if the security keys case the actual solution is to somehow detect it is not full-fledged keyboard i.e. not fit to replace system keyboard
07:27:43 <fridl-m1> e.g. for my app it iss relevant only for one text field where i want to enter a new entry while the key is plugged.
07:28:00 <fridl-m1> it is only one or two textboxes in my case.
07:28:10 <jpetrell> ok, interesting
07:28:15 <fridl-m1> we could "whitelist" these devices.
07:29:30 <fridl-m1> but if i think about it a system wide sollution is better then text box specific, you are right.
07:30:41 <spiiroin> fridl-m1: blacklisting individual devices in mce context is also already possible -> old tjc article that has some info: https://together.jolla.com/question/173332/sailfish-x-bluetooth-thinks-speaker-is-keyboard-and-disables-touch-screen-keyboard/
07:31:20 <sledges> lots of topics today, "gotta move on";) youtu.be/CsFkVhrtTb0
07:31:27 <sledges> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/173332/sailfish-x-bluetooth-thinks-speaker-is-keyboard-and-disables-touch-screen-keyboard/
07:31:32 <fridl-m1> spiiroin: thanks for the link, thats interesting as well!
07:31:42 <fridl-m1> sledges: sure.
07:31:44 <sledges> ta
07:31:50 <sledges> #topic Company support for mapping and navigation (15 min -- asked by ddobrev)
07:31:57 <sledges> #info <ddobrev> Pure Maps is by far the best choice for mapping and navigation for Sailfish. Unfortunately, since its author of @rinigus is forced to work mostly alone, progress is slow. Is there any way Jolla can help speed work up on this critically important application?
07:32:14 <sledges> #info <Jolla> We should definitely do more in the location area (mapping, positioning, etc.), but maybe not for individual apps but in terms of the overall developer offering (as @rinigus said Pure Maps is not the only Maps client developed for Sailfish OS).
07:32:26 <sledges> #info <Jolla> Developing a native mapping and navigation solution is no a small feat, we emphatise with @rinigus and @Karry efforts. In Jolla 1 times we developed Maps app with HERE-based map tiles, directions and points of interest. Taking that to fully-fledged navigation solution would have required a substantially bigger investment.
07:35:31 <sledges> hm, ddobrev doesn't seem to be around
07:35:35 <ExTechOp> (As maps without navigation features go, Android c.geo works pretty well and eg. supports Finnish geographical survey maps)
07:35:38 <poetaster> rinigus clarifies with the Thunderforest case, that the issue of HOW to facilitate payments for mapping data is coming at us
07:36:05 <sledges> yep, a nice problem to have...
07:37:12 <flypig> +1 kudos to karry and rinigus: OSM Scout and Pure maps are both amazing pieces of software.
07:37:22 <poetaster> ditto.
07:37:41 <abr> yeah those two are great
07:37:43 <sledges> a friend of mine (Android user) wanted to plot a scenic route to follow, looks like there are no apps where this could easy be done! (e.g. google maps doesn't support it), would be another Android-killer feature (if it doesn't exist already in pure maps or modrana:)
07:38:17 <abr> osm scout is very good for walking around. shows lots of physical features that google doesn't bother with
07:38:44 <sledges> i meant to create your own roadtrip and plot a that line layer on a map
07:39:19 <poetaster> abr: yes, for hiking of even finding a short cut in the city, osm is superiour in germany and in large parts of canadda.
07:39:41 <flypig> karry: how hard/easy would it be currently to integrate maps into an existing app using OSM Scout.
07:40:41 <fridl-m1> dont i remember or haven't been there announcements about improving API availability for Mapping/Location/Positioning? Is there something in the pipe that can be spiled, sledges?
07:41:05 <karry> flypig: if you mean add another online provider or raster tiles, it should be easy. just add it to /usr/share/harbour-osmscout/resources/online-tile-providers.json ;-)
07:41:06 <fridl-m1> *spoiled
07:41:12 <poetaster> karry: doesn't GPX import sort of cover the plot your journey case?
07:41:55 <sledges> fridl-m1: QtPositioning 5.4 was the last allowance in January: https://github.com/sailfishos/sdk-harbour-rpmvalidator/pull/128
07:41:59 <flypig> karry, I meant more integrating maps into another app. E.g. I want to create an app that shows where a particular shop is located, so want to embed a map into the app.
07:42:56 <karry> poetaster: it depends on the use case. you can display imported gpx track on map and show statistics...
07:43:54 <karry> flypig: in that case, such app would need to distribute own copy of libosmscout and add short initialization code to c++...
07:44:34 <karry> it is similar with pure-map stack form @rinigus. apps needs to be linked with mapbox
07:44:45 <karry> native libraries
07:44:47 <flypig> karry, could we perhaps can discuss it "offline"? I'd love to know more about the detail and try it out.
07:45:35 <karry> flypig: of course, it is little bit different topic :-)
07:45:42 <flypig> Indeed.
07:46:35 <sledges> and we're off to Funky Town again, moving on
07:46:37 <sledges> #topic (Stop) censorship in the forum (15 min -- asked by ddobrev)
07:46:39 <karry> back to original topic. for me as developer, I would more like to keep Jolla support and improve existing and new apis for all developers... not just one specific stack
07:47:41 <sledges> karry: sorry you have more, we're tight on time:)
07:47:44 <sledges> #undo
07:47:44 <sailbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x7f3936f13eb8>
07:48:03 <sledges> #info <karry> for me as developer, I would more like to keep Jolla support and improve existing and new apis for all developers... not just one specific stack
07:48:44 <fridl-m1> karry: +1
07:48:58 <poetaster> karry: +1, +
07:49:37 <thilo[m]> +1 ;)
07:50:06 <sledges> glad we all agree:)
07:50:09 <sledges> #topic (Stop) censorship in the forum (15 min -- asked by ddobrev)
07:50:16 <sledges> #info <ddobrev> Just the other day I saw @deloptes's and others' opinions censored for no reason at Total Buggy OS - Xperia 10 Plus
07:50:23 <sledges> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/total-buggy-os-xperia-10-plus/7710
07:50:27 <sledges> #info <ddobrev> This is the first time I've seen any censorship here, and I'd like to discuss what we all can do to make it the last one as well.
07:50:39 <sledges> #info <Jolla> Nobody's opinions are censored. Flagging posts is a good thing and helps us moderate the forum. Moderators will try to review the flagged comments quickly, but please be patient e.g. during weekends or holidays.
07:50:48 <sledges> #info <Jolla> Opinions are encouraged, rude language and name calling is not. See forum guidelines
07:50:52 <sledges> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/faq
07:51:00 <sledges> #info <Jolla> ^ how to maintain polite and productive discussion.
07:52:29 <poetaster> for my part, I find the forum is just fine, even if occasional flagging sometimes disturbs the flow.
07:52:29 <sledges> any opinions? ;)
07:53:21 <poetaster> I'd let https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/forum-censorship-some-proposals/ progress for some time and see if it's got actionable suggestions.
07:54:25 <poetaster> as nephros says: Realizing that is whole “problem” is caused neither by Jolla, not by any anonymous “censors” or anything like it, but simply by the way **this forum software works** .
07:55:48 <sledges> this software is used in many other communities. wonder if it has a switch not to hide flagged posts
07:56:06 <sledges> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/forum-censorship-some-proposals/
07:57:02 <thilo[m]> The community should have members who use the same forum software in other communities, maybe someone can give insights how others handle this.
07:57:10 <ViGe> poetaster: In my personal opinion, the problem is not caused by the way forum software works, it's caused by people not able to write their opinions in correct places without offending the readers.
07:57:46 <fridl-m1> IMHO its noice about nothing. Only wonder why a post is hidden after only one flag(?)
07:57:55 <poetaster> vige: yes, it's a matter of people not watching the language as they've been asked to do. I'm a bit too tolerant of trucker language.
07:58:57 <fridl-m1> I would sometimes wish more OT clean up tbh in the forums.
07:59:31 <poetaster> fridl: OT cleanu up?
07:59:44 <thilo[m]> Yes, but you will have always people who do not really understand what the words they use imply for others. And  as hopefully the community grows, this problem will become bigger
07:59:59 <ViGe> fridl-m1: It's not so black and white. It also depends on the reputation of the poster and the flagger. But indeed it seems the software does hide posts more often than it should, compared to the settings. So I do have a feeling there might be a bug in the software somewhere.
08:00:33 <poetaster> vige: ah, ok, so it is a personal AND a software tolerance problem :)
08:00:34 <fridl-m1> poetaster: move off topic to a dedicated thread. But thats very personal oppinion. And its not important for me also.
08:00:59 <poetaster> fridl: thanks! got it.
08:01:01 <ViGe> poetaster: Well, I would say we have two different problems :)
08:01:41 <poetaster> vige: yes, but the software one has a higher chance of being solved in reasonable time :)
08:02:09 <sledges> 3mins left
08:02:43 <poetaster> Uhg. next. I'm sitting on refactoring work.
08:03:30 <ViGe> umm
08:04:14 <ViGe> could I ask for some help? Could someone write a test post in e.g. site feedback category, and then someone else could flag it?
08:04:25 <poetaster> vige: sure.
08:05:02 <poetaster> vige: PM  me + tests?
08:05:21 <fridl-m1> also we should check if some people from the regular group can hide with one flag only but others can't.
08:05:49 <fridl-m1> then the regular people should be aware of that "power".
08:05:54 <poetaster> fridl: ah, I just entered that domain, so I can test that case.
08:07:10 <ViGe> fridl-m1: The people in the regular group should be able to hide posts from new users with a single flag. For all other cases it's more fuzzy.
08:08:19 <fridl-m1> good to know...
08:09:04 <sledges> could we move on?:)
08:09:45 <sledges> poetaster's next:)
08:09:45 <sledges> #topic Make packaging for Harbour much easier by depending on Jolla packages like: https://github.com/sailfishos/python3-imaging and ffmpeg-tools (5 min -- asked by poetaster)
08:09:51 <sledges> #info <poetaster> Depending on Jolla packages like
08:09:58 <sledges> #link https://github.com/sailfishos/python3-imaging
08:10:11 <sledges> #info <poetaster> and ffmpeg-tools makes packaging for Harbour a bunch easier AND obviously makes build jobs on obs, for instance a lot lighter, faster... what are the chances of being permitted to require those? It's clear to me that python3-imaging, for instance, is not in 3.4 which leaves me using the approach I have now, but it's a real advantage or 4.x.
08:10:20 <sledges> #info <poetaster> It radically simplifies builds of Imageworks, Videoworks and Audioworks (audiocut) for Harbour and chum if this route opens.
08:10:36 <sledges> #info <Jolla> Extending allowed packages is definitely possible, we will investigate if there are issues with these particular packages.
08:13:01 <poetaster> ok. cool :) python3-imaging is stable but I''m ramping up testing (imageworks).  where can I give jolla feedback on this?
08:14:33 <ViGe> poetaster: In this case I think the Applications/Others category in the forum would be an appropriate place for the discussion
08:15:51 <poetaster> vige: that approach is always there. I'll just collect issues related to PIL in my github repo for now.
08:16:08 <poetaster> thanks, moving right along.
08:17:22 <sledges> alrighty thanks
08:17:27 <sledges> #topic "hub" for users interested in trying out ports (10 min -- asked by flypig)
08:17:32 <sledges> #info <flypig> I recently wanted to provide someone (unfamiliar with SFOS) details about what ports are available. I found the info on the web to be fragmented and hard to negotiate. It would be useful to have a launch-point that can be easily kept up-to-date (a forum wiki maybe?) for this. There are already some resources available:
08:17:46 <sledges> #link https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris
08:17:49 <sledges> #link https://gitlab.com/sailfishos-porters-ci
08:17:56 <sledges> #link https://build.sailfishos.org/project
08:18:00 <sledges> #info ^ and search for device codename
08:18:03 <sledges> #link https://github.com/search?q=droid-config-
08:18:09 <sledges> #info ^ and search for droid-config-<device codename>
08:18:27 <sledges> i might add:
08:18:28 <sledges> #link https://build.sailfishos.org/project/subprojects/nemo:devel:hw
08:18:49 <sledges> this wasn't a question for Jolla, rather for community to discuss
08:19:02 <flypig> Thanks sledges. Yeah, I was just hoping to get opinions on this.
08:19:36 <flypig> I think there's a need for *something*, but maybe it's better to repurpose one of the existing ports pages rather than create a new one. Any thoughts?
08:19:46 <poetaster> +1 forum wiki.
08:20:49 <flypig> If we create a forum wiki, what's the best way to ensure it stays up-to-date?
08:22:35 <cartron_> agreed, a place where we centralise information would be nice, but needs to be kept updated...
08:23:11 <poetaster> It's kind of hard to find things. Maybe a wiki area and flagging when things haven't been updated for n months?
08:23:43 <poetaster> I recently started moving stuff from the old forum into a thread (apps without aarch64) and want to make that into a wiki too.  I find it really difficult to have discussions with the data all over the map.
08:24:08 <flypig> Yeah, exactly poetaster. It would be nice if the info could automatically "drop off" if it didn't get updated, but it'd have to be done manually I think.
08:24:33 <flypig> Do we have any porters at the meeting?
08:24:40 <poetaster> piggz?
08:26:12 <flypig> Well, we can easily create a wiki page, populate it and see how it goes. And then if it doesn't work out, just mark it as old info.
08:26:35 <flypig> I sense a forum wiki is the way to go, but beyond that, it's just a question of effort.
08:27:09 <poetaster> flypig: yes. It's something I'd visit fairly often. I wikipedia edit.
08:27:44 <flypig> poetaster, excellent, that's v. positive to hear.
08:28:03 <sledges> time's up for this1:)
08:28:14 <abr> where's the old list of ports these days? that should probably be a forum wiki now
08:28:35 <sledges> https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris
08:29:05 <sledges> sadly Markdown doesn't support rowspan/colspan :|
08:29:53 <poetaster> people love markdown because they hate to structure data :)
08:30:12 <abr> It's a nice table that, for sure
08:30:25 <flypig> I must admit, I do like markdown... and it is a nice table. But too much detail for my head.
08:30:33 <sledges> it's not only a nice table
08:30:35 <abr> but perhaps we could have something simpler on the forum. i'm surprised that wiki's still up.
08:30:40 <poetaster> It's and evil table that! My eyes are bleeding.
08:30:42 <sledges> it's cross-template info thingy :)
08:30:42 <sledges> https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris/sailfishos-on-tucana
08:30:45 <abr> and I think it often isn't
08:30:55 <sledges> it takes the row of the device into its own page
08:31:05 <sledges> and it's still updated
08:31:16 <sledges> a bril work by r0kk3rz:)
08:31:27 <poetaster> sledges: ah, cool
08:31:33 <flypig> So, would it be better to just try to update that then, sledges?
08:31:35 <abr> oh, even nicer. but yes, those colours could be desaturated a little :)
08:31:55 <poetaster> abr: that's what I meant with bleeding.
08:32:02 <abr> yeah
08:32:08 <sledges> flypig: mer wiki wouldn't be up forever mind
08:32:53 <abr> we do need a sfos ports site instead somehow
08:33:39 <poetaster> yeah, and a ports wiki page in forum would probably get the most use.
08:33:42 <Nico> We should have a page as fancy as this imo: https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/
08:33:55 <flypig> Oh, yes, that's great Nico.
08:34:01 <Nico> (But I am not vlunteering)
08:34:41 <abr> web developers never like sfos :)
08:35:06 <Nico> Is that why we don't have a web frontend for the store? ;p
08:35:07 <abr> it's for people who still think HTML1.0 is best and CSS is evil
08:35:16 <flypig> :D
08:35:20 <abr> <blink>could be</blink>
08:35:22 <sledges> Nico: mer wiki followed cyanogenmod/lineage devices wiki, the latter just got prettier
08:35:35 <sledges> the use of templates is just as powerful/flexible: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/index.php?title=Adaptations/libhybris/Install_SailfishOS_for_hammerhead&action=edit
08:35:45 <sledges> (see {{...}} occurrences)
08:36:06 <Nico> sledges: Pretty can be pretty important :3
08:36:23 <sledges> that's just tweaking some css *cough*
08:36:25 <Nico> So many people's eyes glaze over when they look at normal tables
08:36:34 <sledges> undelying framework and templates hierarchy is all alredy there
08:36:51 <Nico> Sounds good, when are you finished? .-.
08:36:57 <abr> needs more <marquee>
08:37:10 <sledges> i'll tell you if/after i'll start :p
08:37:21 <Nico> Oh, so never... dang
08:37:23 <poetaster> <blink>marquee</blink>
08:37:23 <abr> and an always-under-construction.gif
08:37:25 <sledges> the problem is that we're moving away from wikis
08:37:41 <abr> sorry, an always~1.gif
08:38:04 <poetaster> abr: transparent-spacer.gif
08:38:07 <sledges> thus moving to forum would bring only active/fresh ports
08:38:26 <sledges> the wiki page could be archived in case someone wants to pick up a dead port
08:38:49 <sledges> but this needs to be discussed with porters
08:39:11 <sledges> and time to move on as we have still one more topic and gen. diss. [sic]
08:39:15 <sledges> #topic XA2 phone calls no audio (15 min -- asked by sailr)
08:39:15 <flypig> I raised it on #sailfishos-porters, but the discussion was similar.
08:39:45 <Nico> So more a forum like xda-developers?
08:39:47 <sledges> flypig: good that we got one person in this meeting being happy to edit wikis:) (poetaster), i'm sure on forum itelf would be even more
08:40:03 <sledges> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/3-4-0-22-xa2-phone-calls-no-audio/2446
08:40:09 <sledges> #info <sailr> For quite some time now, there has been the problem that no sound is heard on the XA2 during calls and the device sometimes has to be restarted several times. I would like to know what Jolla's strategy is to fix this problem. Is there anything we as users can do to help solve the problem(e.g. transmit log files)? Please see the linked thread for more information.
08:40:54 <sledges> #info <Jolla> We have been investigating the issue, but unfortunately don't have a solution yet as the issue has been hard to reproduce reliably.
08:41:04 <sledges> hm sailr not about
08:42:04 <abr> if there's someone who can reproduce it more often, maybe they could get some logs out?
08:42:35 <sledges> and someone with even more spare devices/time on their hands - to reflash AOSP and check if the problem is there too
08:43:02 <poetaster> sailr had said he can't make it, working hours.
08:43:29 <sledges> ah right, been checking every excuse until now:))
08:44:09 <abr> ...then flash sfos again to check if the newer android base fixed it...
08:44:13 <sledges> abr: we had quite a few logs, but they were during a phone call when audio is lost
08:44:36 <sledges> it's the trick to actually catch the moment the subsystem fails (which can be in any point in time, not necessarily during the phonecall)
08:44:37 <Nico> Might also be good to know, if it still happens with 4.2, since my audio issues are gone there
08:45:19 <Nico> But I guess it says so on the forums
08:46:36 <poetaster> recent notes says the issue APPEARED with 4.2 (XA2 dual)
08:46:51 <Nico> o.o
08:47:45 <poetaster> forum classic: 'Killing the “adsprpcd” process did the job for me, too.'
08:47:59 <sledges> :)
08:48:00 <sledges> we could smoothly transition into gen dis:)
08:48:04 <sledges> #topic General discussion (15 min)
08:48:21 <sledges> we'll be left all alone as Finns go to lunch in 12mins ;)
08:48:37 <poetaster> thankfully piggz ports are so stable I'm always happy (hee, hee).
08:48:45 <Nico> Finns and their lunch, I just woke up 20min ago!
08:49:08 <poetaster> I haven't had breakfast yet. But I've been up since 6 CEST
08:49:09 <ExTechOp> As a Finn, I find it odd that everyone wants to go to lunch at exactly 12 and get to enjoy the crowd
08:49:31 <piggz> poetaster: dont say that, a volla user just messaged me to say he flashed 4.2 and just gets a black screen!
08:49:31 <ExTechOp> Post-COVID my enjoyment of crowds has got even worse
08:49:35 <piggz> poetaster: have you had that?
08:49:44 <Nico> poetaster: That's when I went to bed .-.
08:50:02 <flypig> For info, I've created a ports wiki page on the forum. I'll start populating it over the coming days, and contributions from anyone else would be really welcome of course.
08:50:05 <flypig> https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sailfish-ports-page/8422
08:50:08 <poetaster> piggz: I'm still on 4.1, happily finding annoyances with that.
08:50:14 <sledges> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sailfish-ports-page/8422
08:50:22 <flypig> Thanks sledges.
08:50:30 <poetaster> flypig: registered, thanks.
08:50:31 <abr> flypig: cool!
08:51:10 <ExTechOp> Question about isLowRamDevice() which I've already asked before, are any developers expecting this to change or am I permanently stuck with silly low-res images on Signal: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/android-subsystem-aliendalvik-reports-islowramdevice-to-apps/6957
08:51:36 <Domo_> how does one disable that color-flashing of a forum page ?
08:51:47 <pherjung> just for information, the telegram bridge is broken
08:51:50 <Domo_> I desire snappy experience, not some slow animation ;/
08:51:52 <sledges> abr: ^^
08:52:01 <flypig> Domo_: which colour flashing is that?
08:52:19 <sledges> Thaodan: ^^
08:52:47 <ExTechOp> Also, the issue of the alien environment being very ungraceful with network changes still seems to be around: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/network-broken-for-some-android-apps-in-4-2-0-19/8103/10
08:53:15 <Domo_> I loaded that ../8422 -page and background "flashes" from some color to the final color (i have dark mode on, have to disable for a bot more details...)
08:53:53 <Domo_> hmm, not so bad when no dark mode, but irritating anyways (IMO, YMMV)...
08:54:32 <Domo_> (the "flashing" can be easily re-experienced by just reloading the page)
08:55:09 <ExTechOp> As Mobiilivarmenne does not work for some users with 10 II SFOS 4.2.0, is there a preliminary idea when is 4.3.0 due out? https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/mobiilivarmenne-fails-on-xperia-10-ii/7734/2
08:55:19 <Domo_> anyway, IMO all these "animations" are slowing user experience but perhaps that is just me...
08:55:50 <Domo_> how can anything break Mobiilivarmenne ? >;D
08:56:50 <flypig> Domo_, how do you turn on dark mode?
08:57:07 <ViGe> Regarding the hidden posts in forum, I figured I could share a TIL: In addition to trust levels, the AI also takes into account how often the moderators have agreed with the flagger. And it's thought process is actually reviewable, at least for the moderators. I'm starting to think there aren't any obvious bugs there.
08:57:08 <Domo_> haaha-, with 'Dark Reader' that background "flashing" goes from stark white to the light blue and from there to black.
08:57:09 <abr> ExTechOp: looks like we've managed to get rid of that lowmem flag, and saved memory elsewhere. Should be in a later release, but it's not final yet though.
08:57:36 <ExTechOp> abr Nice!
08:57:44 <sledges> ExTechOp: 4.3.0 is RSN(tm)
08:57:47 <Domo_> flypig: i should have be more exact -- "dark reader" firefox extension
08:58:00 <Nico> ViGe, is there some more obvious way to see why a post was hidden or a way for regulars to unhide it?
08:58:01 <abr> That network switching thing is being looking into as well, but it's tough to solve
08:58:03 <Domo_> "Dark mode for every website. Take care of your eyes, use dark theme for night and daily browsing."
08:58:29 <flypig> Domo_, okay, that makes more sense then. I guess the extension is making its own changes to the site then.
08:58:38 <ExTechOp> abr SFOS has never been very good at handling network changes, but of course also Android occasionally falters there.
08:58:44 <Domo_> yes, it modifies css on-the-fly
08:58:58 <ExTechOp> Domo_ Not to mention it saves battery on OLED displays
08:59:03 <ViGe> Nico: I'm afraid it's only possible for the moderators. Which is how it should be imho.
08:59:14 <flypig> If Dark Reader is configurable, you might be able to edit the animation colours the same way.
08:59:48 <Nico> ViGe: Hm, well sometimes it is frustrating to see people complain about their posts being hidden and you can't do anything about it :D
08:59:57 <Domo_> Since 2,5 years ago, I've got some eyesight problems, and changed all my white-background clients (urxvt, emacs) to black in a day -- and started using those dark reader extension in browsers...
09:01:04 <sledges> #info <ViGe> Regarding the hidden posts in forum, I figured I could share a TIL: In addition to trust levels, the AI also takes into account how often the moderators have agreed with the flagger. And it's thought process is actually reviewable, at least for the moderators. I'm starting to think there aren't any obvious bugs there.
09:01:18 <Domo_> (and now I don't remember how to do that in web-pirate, so mostly I use fennec w/ dark reader on my experia X
09:01:44 <sledges> #info For Thaodan: <pherjung> just for information, the telegram bridge is broken
09:04:42 <sledges> flypig: Domo_: indeed, and submit those new colour gradients upsteam to Dark Reader (it's OSS https://github.com/darkreader/darkreader ), many people in the world would thank you:) (as they are currently waiting until someone else does that:)
09:05:03 <flypig> Ah, great info :)
09:05:26 <sledges> and our time's up (very quiet here, probably all sailors now eating already;)
09:05:32 <sledges> #topic Next meeting time and date (5 min)
09:05:34 <sledges> Proposing Thursday 14th October at 7am UTC
09:06:29 <Nico> sledges: Can't you hear the chewing noises?
09:06:37 <flypig> That's the day of the Berlin event... which I hope everyone has signed up for!
09:06:42 <flypig> https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/jolla-10-years-celebration-in-berlin-october-14-tickets-174993539387
09:06:48 <sledges> yowzer, so we'd need to postpone
09:06:52 <sledges> #undo
09:06:52 <sailbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Link object at 0x7f3934d96160>
09:07:13 <sledges> Nico: can't hear from over here:))
09:07:36 <sledges> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/join-our-10-year-celebration-in-berlin-on-14th-october/8375
09:07:39 <Nico> Oh, btw, if anyone wants to know how long it takes to crack the encryption on a Sailfish device, I did it recently here and posted my numbers: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/how-to-unlock-the-encryption-of-your-home-if-you-dont-know-your-lock-code-bruteforce/3004/8
09:07:54 <Nico> We really need alphanumeric passcodes :3
09:08:45 <flypig> Nice work with that Nico, very interesting results. Also interesting to see rinigus's work on it too.
09:09:09 <Nico> Yep :D
09:09:32 <Nico> Might need to switch to a community port for superior crypto!
09:09:56 <Nico> But yeah, the gist of it is, don't use 6 digit codes to encrypt your phone
09:09:59 <sledges> #link https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/jolla-10-years-celebration-in-berlin-october-14-tickets-174993539387
09:10:00 <flypig> Yes, unfortunately it's not the solution for everyone right now.
09:10:42 <sledges> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/how-to-unlock-the-encryption-of-your-home-if-you-dont-know-your-lock-code-bruteforce/3004/8
09:11:08 <sledges> Proposing Thursday 28th October at 7am UTC
09:11:26 <sledges> 14th will be a community F2F meeting on its own! ;)
09:11:29 <Nico> That's in a month!
09:11:43 <sledges> this is in two fortnights;)
09:11:57 <Nico> I don't play that game .-.
09:12:30 <Nico> But otherwise it sounds fine and we have the 14th still to talk about stuff .-.
09:12:31 <sledges> we're keeping to odd week numbers
09:12:32 <sledges> but
09:12:51 <sledges> sounds like this time will have to do an exception
09:12:53 <ExTechOp> 28th works
09:12:57 <sledges> hang on
09:13:07 <sledges> Proposing Thursday 22nd October at 7am UTC
09:13:14 <sledges> there are other things in a pipeline
09:13:17 <sledges> ^^
09:13:17 <ExTechOp> 21st surely?
09:13:21 <sledges> aye
09:13:25 <sledges> Proposing Thursday 21st October at 7am UTC
09:13:38 <ExTechOp> works 4 me
09:13:38 <sledges> this most proposals i've ever seen!;)
09:13:48 <Nico> Certainly
09:13:53 <Nico> 21st sounds good
09:13:56 <Nico> I like it
09:13:58 <Nico> Ship it!
09:14:02 <flypig> +1
09:14:20 <sledges> yay
09:14:22 <sledges> #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 21st October 2021 at 7:00am UTC:  2021-10-21T07Z
09:14:35 <sledges> btw, don't forget to read our newspaper, it's gotten its own stall!
09:14:37 <sledges> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/c/community-news/25
09:14:43 <sledges> #endmeeting