08:00:09 <sledges> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 20211111
08:00:09 <sailbot> Meeting started Thu Nov 11 08:00:09 2021 UTC. The chair is sledges. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
08:00:09 <sailbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
08:00:17 <sledges> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:
08:00:21 <poetaster> Note. Morning. Not necessarily good.
08:00:24 <sledges> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-11th-november-2021/8713
08:00:31 <sledges> I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and eleven.
08:00:39 <sledges> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info
08:00:49 <sledges> #info Simonas Leleiva -- privateer for Jolla
08:00:54 <ExTechOp> #info Otto Mäkelä -- community
08:01:26 <poetaster> #info Mark Washeim -- community?
08:01:43 <Thaodan> #info Björn Bidar - sailfor @ Jolla
08:02:36 <ViGe> #info Ville Nummela - sailor@Jolla
08:03:10 <flypig> #info David Llewellyn-Jones - sailor @ jolla
08:04:24 <sledges> 4:2
08:04:55 <flypig> Quieter than usual...
08:05:02 <poetaster> I'm waiting :)
08:05:21 <poetaster> sledges: we await diegoc?
08:05:21 <sledges> everyone's busy updating 4.3.0 ? :)
08:05:48 <poetaster> I'm still waiting for piggz (volla phone).
08:06:07 <poetaster> I (still) don't have any official devices.
08:06:36 <sledges> despite the pings, we won't go into the overtime today:))
08:06:37 <sledges> #topic Native ProtonMail bridge integrated into SFOS (10 min -- asked by EA3ICN)
08:06:47 <sledges> #info <EA3ICN> It would be great to be able to access ProtonMail directly from SFOS. As an OS that frequently mentions privacy, it makes more sense to have access to ProtonMail or Tutanota than to only have Gmail and other less private services.
08:07:07 <sledges> #info <Jolla> Support for secure, privacy-respecting messaging, email services like ProtonMail and Tutanota would indeed be welcome additions to Sailfish OS.
08:07:27 <sledges> #info <Jolla> We can easily add pre-installed configs for to ease setting up of IMAP/POP email services, but sounds like both Tutanota and ProtonMail require some custom software to run.
08:07:36 <sledges> #info <Jolla> In Tutanota case their OSS email client would need to be ported to Sailfish OS, and for ProtonMail their OSS ProtonMail Bridge (though limited to their paid customers).
08:07:38 <poetaster> discussion was at: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/protonmail-bridge-on-sailfish/6017
08:07:50 <sledges> #link https://github.com/ProtonMail/proton-bridge
08:08:07 <sledges> #info full discussion:
08:08:11 <sledges> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/protonmail-bridge-on-sailfish/6017
08:09:12 <flypig> Whisperfish used to be written in Go, so Proton Bridge isn't out of the question.
08:09:29 <poetaster> hydroxide runs as a service so it's a can of worms, but I'm biased.
08:10:02 <flypig> ddobrev seems to say hydroxide is unreliable.
08:11:38 <poetaster> bymmoe mentions it working but not much more. Seems like the offical and hydroxide versions would need a more formal evaluation.
08:13:19 <flypig> Personally, I think it'd be great to see Proton Bridge available, it'd make a brilliant app, but probably needs quite a bit of work and commitment from someone.
08:13:57 <poetaster> It's not my place but this is complicated in any number of ways (keyring integration, gnomepg). It sounds like it needs someone willing to invest.
08:14:00 <abr> I've got to agree with that last post. Running your own mail server is far more secure, and probably less work. :)
08:14:29 <poetaster> Yo! but some would claim I'm a pervert.
08:14:40 <Thaodan> I don't think adding those kind of protocols into the mix helps any one. The ressources are stretched thin. Running the bridge is a stop gap.
08:14:54 <poetaster> Exactly.
08:15:43 <sledges> 1min left
08:15:50 <poetaster> So, dedicated app is your suggestion. flypig, would that be the direction or is integration with existing mail important?
08:15:59 <Thaodan> There would to be work needed into a messaging framework plugin similar how eas is done.
08:16:31 <poetaster> ok. keyword mf plugin
08:16:58 <flypig> Personally, I think the bridge is the easiest route to get ProtonMail, much easier than a plugin or anything else.
08:17:07 <Thaodan> Yeah true
08:17:29 <poetaster> ok, by me, but I don't think I'd want it running on my phone :)
08:17:54 <EA3ICN> And would the bridge be already included with the phone?
08:18:04 <EA3ICN> As in something that appears in the accounts section
08:18:11 <flypig> I've not looked into how it works, but I think it's intended to be run on your phone.
08:18:25 <Thaodan> The bridge is like bitlbee but for email
08:18:26 <Thaodan> so yes
08:18:33 <sledges> the question is would jolla pre-ship it or users sideloading it
08:18:44 <sledges> also community effort vs jolla's
08:19:01 <Thaodan> I don't think thats worth it, it should be in the Jolla store download but not preload.
08:19:05 <flypig> I don't really see any benefit to Jolla shipping it directly, but maybe I'm missing something.
08:19:15 <flypig> Thaodan, yeah, agreed.
08:19:35 <abr> Probably needs updating more often than SFOS releases too
08:19:35 <poetaster> flypig: ease of use/installation/integration are arguments for jolla shipping.
08:19:40 <sledges> so a community user submits an app to the store? which at the same time adds  enablers in the settings | accounts
08:19:59 <flypig> sledges, right, it could be like that.
08:20:16 <sledges> sounds like api extension (enable protonmail entry in "add account" list)
08:20:17 <abr> but I don't think either accounts plugins nor daemons are currently allowed in the store
08:20:17 <EA3ICN> Exactly
08:20:19 <sledges> for harbour
08:20:21 <EA3ICN> sledges: Sorry, I was replying to this, but mobile data just randomly cut out on Element Android on Xperia 10 ii 4.2 😅
08:20:31 <flypig> poetaster, yes, that's certainly true. But personally, I think you get more flexibility from separating them.
08:20:39 <sledges> EA3ICN: what a way to submit bug report:))
08:20:47 <EA3ICN> Hehehe sorry
08:20:52 <poetaster> flypig: absolutely. I was just being positive.
08:21:05 <Thaodan> fyi: https://github.com/sailfishos/messagingframework That's what can be used to extend jolla email
08:21:13 <sledges> abr: true too, well hopefully sadboxing will pave some way for daemons(?)
08:21:17 <sledges> *sandboxing
08:21:18 <poetaster> thanks!
08:21:22 <abr> let's hope so
08:21:46 <sledges> time to move it
08:21:49 <sledges> #topic Uploading 4.2 aarch64 rpms blocks older releases? (10 min -- asked by poetaster)
08:21:55 <sledges> #info <poetaster> In discussion at
08:21:58 <EA3ICN> Thanks for the answers!! 😄
08:21:59 <sledges> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/apps-that-havent-been-ported-to-aarch64-store/7331/32?u=poetaster
08:22:06 <sledges> #info <poetaster> @slava mentioned that uploading 4.2 aarch64 causes older target's (3.4 arm 32 bit) to become unavailable as 4.2 becomes a requirement for all?
08:22:16 <sledges> #info <poetaster> He put it this way: "Jolla Store client stops showing it on 2.x and 3.x. devices if I drop in aarch64 rpm. Because the whole thing starts to "require" 4.x"
08:22:33 <sledges> #info <Jolla> Unfortunately Harbour lacks a way to set supported version per RPM. Overall we of course wish that people would run Sailfish OS 4.x with the latest supported functionality, bug and security (CVE) fixes.
08:23:56 <poetaster> My cautious approach has been to target 3.4 for arm32 and x86 and 4.2 for aarch64. that works with harbour.
08:24:24 <sledges> that's a nice workaround, maybe needs to be placed out as a banner in Harbour? cc ViGe
08:25:14 <poetaster> It would abviously also help to get chum builds harbour compatible :)
08:25:38 <jpetrell> the harbour rpm upload errors could definitely be improved, can imagine devs getting confused
08:26:01 <flypig> I suppose it's possible to submit two apps with different names.
08:26:08 <poetaster> I was also uncertain if it effects noarch builds?
08:26:18 <poetaster> that would be absurd (on the face of it)
08:26:21 <ViGe> If there are confusing error messages, please file bugs so they can be fixed
08:26:47 <flypig> poetaster, yes, agreed, it wouldn't be very nice.
08:27:14 <poetaster> I believe I was confused (will post) and slava was irritated about things becoming invisible that clearly could be installed.
08:27:47 <poetaster> are noarch rpms excluded from the major version exclusion?
08:28:23 <jpetrell> I don't think so
08:28:35 <flypig> Are your webview apps noarch poetaster?
08:29:03 <poetaster> should be, but ... I think I was running as an automaton when I published.
08:29:35 <ViGe> What do you mean by "major version exclusion"? If you publish a noarch app which requires sailfish os >= 1.0 it is installable on all devices. If it requires >= 4.0 it won't be installable on devices running old version.
08:29:36 <poetaster> sloppy.
08:30:42 <poetaster> Ok. do you mean: sailfishapp >=?
08:31:23 <poetaster> flypig: mahjong is >= 4.x by virtue of the new component
08:33:09 <flypig> That makes sense. So the question is, if I've understood correctly, if there's no aarch64 build (because it's all noaarch), could you also have a separate rpm the store for SFOS 3.4 at the same time.
08:33:36 <sledges> #info a workaround to the main topic would be to compile arm 32 bit with a 3.4 target and the aarch64 with a 4.2 target:
08:33:39 <sledges> https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/apps-that-havent-been-ported-to-aarch64-store/7331/42?u=sledges
08:34:10 <poetaster> that's the workaround, but shouldn't be needed for noarch, or?
08:34:21 <ViGe> exactly
08:34:40 <sledges> #info ^ not required for noarch packages
08:35:22 <poetaster> I have a couple of candidates for noarch testing so I guess I'll publish one :) My other cases for harbour I'll continue to use the build targets.
08:36:04 <flypig> Looking forward to seeing them :)
08:36:25 <poetaster> There are even collaborators!
08:36:35 <flypig> Oooh :)
08:36:37 <sledges> moving on? 10 mins on the dot:)
08:36:53 <poetaster> I'm clarified right up.
08:36:55 <sledges> #topic General discussion (20 min)
08:37:02 <sledges> wow a blast from the past o/ cxl000
08:38:04 <poetaster> I hate being the 'too think' to appreciate the blast guy.
08:38:18 <poetaster> s/think/thick/g
08:39:14 <sledges> they were a porter of Google Nexus 7 (deb) eons ago
08:39:25 <poetaster> ah! thanks.
08:40:01 <poetaster> a question: where the allowed libs/depends altered for the 4.3 release ?
08:41:10 <EA3ICN> Is there any way to compress voice recorder .wav files? I need to email a few of them but they're massive 😓
08:41:39 <sledges> poetaster: a tell from here perhaps https://github.com/sailfishos/sdk-harbour-rpmvalidator/commits/upgrade-4.3.0 ?
08:41:56 <thilo[m]> Is there anything i can do to help with the android connectivity issues? Any pointers on how lxc is connected?
08:41:59 <Cy8aer[m]> EA3ICN: sox?
08:42:23 <poetaster> IEA3ICN: I have to check but I believe Audioworks can open wav and save to mp3. But there are better approaches
08:42:56 <poetaster> sledges: thanks!
08:42:58 <sledges> thilo[m]: tried 4.3.0 ?
08:43:21 <thilo[m]> Yes, same issues
08:43:29 <EA3ICN> Ah cool! Thanks for the recommendations
08:44:03 <sledges> thilo[m]: connectivity lost after coming back to the wlan coverage zone? or others?
08:44:12 <thilo[m]> Switching between wifi and cellular kills the connection sometimes. It seemed better directly after the update
08:44:38 <sledges> mdata->wlan has been fixed in my usecases
08:44:58 <sledges> with wlan->mdata i never seen problems
08:45:05 <sledges> ymmv
08:45:52 <thilo[m]> It looked like i could fix the issue with the flightmode trick, but since the upgrade i had to restart android twice
08:46:07 <thilo[m]> So its basically the same situation as before
08:46:13 <thilo[m]> Xperia xa2
08:46:29 <sledges> thilo[m]: so which way does it break for you? leaving the wlan coverage, or entering it (it's an important piece of info;)
08:46:45 <thilo[m]> Entering it
08:47:07 <thilo[m]> And sometimes after entering and leaving it does not recover
08:48:35 <flypig> EA3ICN, if you're willing to delve into the crazy command line options, you can probably compress it on-device using ffmpeg.
08:48:36 <sledges> the only differences left vs my device in this might be which sim slot your mobile data is in, technology switched from/to (4/3/2G) and which operator/country (if you're happy to disclose)
08:48:41 <sledges> thilo[m]: ^
08:48:49 <poetaster> EA3ICN: in openrepos, I belive, there is the lame pkg for compressing/reading mp3
08:49:09 <thilo[m]> Its eplus/o2 germany, singlesim
08:49:26 <poetaster> flypig: +1 ffmpeg :) can we allow depends please ;)
08:49:28 <thilo[m]> 4g usually
08:49:46 <flypig> EA3ICN, for ffmpeg: https://superuser.com/questions/552817/fastest-way-to-convert-any-audio-file-to-low-bitrate
08:49:58 <flypig> poetaster, yeah, I'd like that too!
08:50:04 <sledges> ok thanks for that thilo[m]. also is it 100% of cases that loose connectivity when entering wlan ?
08:50:07 <abr> thilo[m]: it's a known issue and being worked on. unfortunately it seems to be entwined in the code that fakes the network connection in Android, so there's not much you can help with I'm afraid
08:50:24 <thilo[m]> Can i collect logs on that somehow? Might help more than my unreliable memory
08:50:25 <sledges> abr: then how come it fixed for me just fine?:))
08:50:31 <abr> in the code at least. logs are great!
08:50:57 <EA3ICN> Will give ffmpeg a go. Again, thank you very much for the help!
08:51:03 <fifr_> thilo[m]: I have the same issue, so it's not only you ;)
08:51:05 <abr> sledges: probably brexit :D
08:51:29 <thilo[m]> fifr_: phew ;)
08:51:39 <sledges> one good thing:))
08:51:48 <poetaster> Brexit, of course! Boris Johnson stole my wifi!
08:51:54 <thilo[m]> abr: what logs do i collect?
08:52:14 <sledges> thilo[m]: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/are-adb-commands-possible-on-sfos/6954/3?u=sledges replace sh with logcat
08:52:24 <thilo[m]> Kk, ty
08:53:02 <sledges> did 4.3.0 help with connectivity issues to anyone else at all that are in the continental EUrope? ;P
08:53:27 <thilo[m]> abr: other issue: were my qtmultimedia bugs noticed? Because I could elaborate on them if needed
08:53:50 <poetaster> thilo: which qtmultimedia bugs?
08:54:32 <poetaster> thilo: I had two bugs go away as of 4.x (audio player component that had 3.4 problems works as expected 4.2)
08:55:19 <thilo[m]> These ones: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/qtmultimedia-property-bindings-not-working-initially/8366
08:55:34 <thilo[m]> or one, i accidentally reported it twice in 4 months ;)
08:55:46 <sledges> #info discussing android connectivity still dropping sometimes after entering into wlan coverage area. seems reaching affinity with:
08:55:49 <sledges> https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/release-notes-suomenlinna-4-3-0/8495/212?u=sledges
08:56:15 <poetaster> thilo: thanks.
08:56:15 <thilo[m]> If you go the naive approach and simply try to bind variables from qml you get unstable results
08:56:27 <thilo[m]> I saw that for playback rate duration and position
08:57:00 <thilo[m]> I guess there is some situation where it does not update a binding/ the bindings
08:57:15 <poetaster> thilo: Ok, I'm working in that domain so I'll see if I can weigh in.
08:57:41 <thilo[m]> ah, nice. Sledges(I think) pointed me to abr last time
08:58:10 <thilo[m]> I can try to build you more examples if you ask on the forum, if you want. I just didnt knew if it is worth the time
08:58:15 <sledges> nice one, poetaster do you want logs of the meeting where this was discussed in detail?
08:58:36 <poetaster> sledges: yes please.
08:59:07 <abr> thilo[m]: sorry yes, I got as far as it not being anything to do with the playback speed change. I guess it's some bug internal to qtmm.
08:59:30 <thilo[m]> okay, so this was noticed? nice. You should indicate that on the forum, because its a bit strange to submit a bug and get no response. Especially if you put work in it
09:00:12 <thilo[m]> But I am glad there are these meetings where you can communicate these things directly ;)
09:00:18 <poetaster> ditto!
09:01:01 <poetaster> I should probably make formal featrue requests for require ffmpg-tools and python3-imaging.
09:02:09 <poetaster> thilo: did you try another player that can switch between url/local file. I usually use LLsvplayer
09:02:10 <thilo[m]> I am off for now, thanks for your nice responses :) have a nice day/night
09:02:17 <poetaster> ahoi!
09:02:55 <sledges> poetaster: ah looks like playbackrate was already addressed, but here's a brief mention about the bindings: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2021/sailfishos-meeting.2021-10-21-07.00.log.html#l-184
09:02:55 <ExTechOp> Back in the day, someone ported mosh onto Sailfish, but I don't think it's available for current versions. Anyone feel like making it available again?
09:03:24 <thilo[m]> poetaster: I dont know, I only encuntered this in podcast so far
09:03:38 <poetaster> thilo: ok. I'll check.
09:03:43 <sledges> thilo[m]: you can quote abr in the forum post now ;P
09:03:55 <thilo[m]> :D
09:04:14 <poetaster> ExTechOp: is there a repo? I'll add it to : https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/apps-that-havent-been-ported-to-aarch64/8497
09:04:31 <thilo[m]> I'll be reachable in matrix or forum, bye ;)
09:05:49 <sledges> if only this didn't crash :} https://build.sailfishos.org/project/show/sailfishos:chum:
09:05:53 <sledges> when you click on mosh
09:05:59 <poetaster> sledges: maybe I can get 3.4 working. on the other hand, the sfos 5.1 will appear ;)
09:06:13 <sledges> oh lol it didn't crash 2nd time round!
09:06:22 <sledges> poetaster: https://github.com/nemomobile-packages/mosh
09:06:40 <poetaster> I'm there :)
09:06:41 <ExTechOp> I could only find a reference to an old mosh repo, not the repo itself https://technicalecstasyblog.blogspot.com/2017/10/installing-mosh-on-sailfish-x.html
09:07:10 <sledges> ExTechOp: since community OBS search function is broken, i had to do some duckduckgo-fu :)
09:07:32 <poetaster> It's clear nothing provides sb2-tools-armv7hl-dependency-infject :)
09:08:17 <sledges> that's not .spec specific, just try to whack in a bit more modern target and build against that
09:08:28 <poetaster> yo.
09:09:04 <sledges> _b
09:10:01 <sledges> looks like we can move on
09:10:03 <sledges> #topic Next meeting time and date (5 min)
09:10:04 <ExTechOp> By the way, https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/space-bar-narrow-width-is-making-me-want-to-switch-to-android/6470/32 is there any word on a easier user-configurable keyboard layouts?
09:10:26 <poetaster> thanks all, I'm off!
09:10:40 <sledges> it's few seconds away from 2021-11-11 11:11:11 !
09:10:46 <sledges> Proposing Thursday 25th November at 8am UTC
09:11:02 <sledges> ExTechOp: might be some improvements on the way
09:11:04 <sledges> #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 25th November 2021 at 8:00am UTC:  2021-11-25T08Z
09:11:12 <sledges> #endmeeting