#sailfishos-meeting: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 9th June 2022

Meeting started by flypig_ at 07:01:54 UTC (full logs).

Meeting summary

    1. Meeting information and agenda can be found here: (flypig_, 07:02:15)
    2. https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-9th-june-2022/11704 (flypig_, 07:02:18)

  1. Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (flypig_, 07:02:31)
    1. Nico, community and on a train (Nico, 07:02:52)
    2. Simonas Leleiva - privateer for Jolla (sledges, 07:03:12)
    3. David Llewellyn-Jones - sailor @ jolla (flypig_, 07:03:17)
    4. Andrew Branson - sailing by (abranson, 07:03:54)
    5. thigg, community and on a train (thilo[m], 07:05:03)
    6. Solrac, community (Solrac[m], 07:05:17)
    7. Björn Bidar - Sailor @ Jolla (Thaodan, 07:05:33)
    8. Raine Mäkeläinen - Sailor @ Jolla (rainemak, 07:06:27)
    9. Sebix - community (sebix[m], 07:06:37)
    10. Otto Mäkelä, community (ExTechOp, 07:07:00)

  2. OBS Improvement for ports (20 minutes -- asked by piggz) (flypig_, 07:08:07)
    1. <piggz> At around Sailfish 4.3, and new hw-common repository was added which packages common hw adaptation packages which can now be shared across devices. (flypig_, 07:08:42)
    2. <piggz> When building on OBS for community ports, these packages are not available, so it is still necessary to build certain packages to allow the droid-hal-version package to build correctly. (flypig_, 07:08:50)
    3. <piggz> Could the packages in the new common repository be added to the OBS targets to reduce the amount of packages needed to be built by ports? (flypig_, 07:09:01)
    4. <piggz> (lbt will be useful here) (flypig_, 07:09:07)
    5. <Jolla> As you've noted, it makes sense to make these packages available for ports. (flypig_, 07:09:31)
    6. <Jolla> I asked lbt about it and he explained that it was something that he had already been considering. However, he also noted that it would potentially be a non-trivial task, and he's currently focussed on other things. (flypig_, 07:09:37)
    7. <Jolla> It's therefore on his TODO list to look at, but without any timescale for when it might be possible. (flypig_, 07:09:48)
    8. Damien Caliste, community (dcaliste, 07:14:08)
    9. <Thaodan> the repo that contains those packages (hw-common) is already public since it is already used by official devices. It can be already used on the port itself after being built on obs. (flypig_, 07:15:11)
    10. <Thaodan> the direct rpm repo needs to be added to the obs since releasing already creates the hw-common repo. (flypig_, 07:16:49)
    11. pherjung, community (pherjung, 07:16:51)

  3. Bug roundup (5 minutes -- asked by pherjung) (flypig_, 07:20:30)
    1. <pherjung> A summary of the amazing bug-herding work of the Community Bug Coordination team over the last fortnight. (flypig_, 07:20:33)
    2. <Jolla> We've been through the untracked reports. Rather than list them all individually, here's a summary of the results: (flypig_, 07:20:52)
    3. <Jolla> 10 new bug reports have been recorded internally, all now tagged as "tracked" on the forum. (flypig_, 07:20:58)
    4. <Jolla> 2 bugs already had an internal report, and are now correctly tagged as "tracked" in the forum. (flypig_, 07:21:04)
    5. <Jolla> 1 report has been marked as "pending", since it's not quite clear what the best way to handle it is yet. (flypig_, 07:21:09)
    6. <Jolla> There were also 11 bugs flagged as duplicates. I've not had a chance to go through these yet I'm afraid, as they'll require a bit of extra work. (flypig_, 07:21:17)
    7. <Jolla> For info, the pending report is the following: (flypig_, 07:21:31)
    8. https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/xperia-10-iii-availability-of-volte-in-italy/11644 (flypig_, 07:21:34)
    9. <Jolla> Working with high-quality reports makes it much easier to report and act on them internally. (flypig_, 07:21:40)
    10. <Jolla> So thank you once again for your work improving and highlighting the bug reports. (flypig_, 07:21:43)

  4. Standalone AppSupport license for ports (10 minutes -- asked by fridlmue) (flypig_, 07:32:56)
    1. <fridlmue> This is a follow up on the general discussion of the last meeting. (flypig_, 07:33:04)
    2. <fridlmue> My question, which was suggested do be a separate topic on the following meeting, was: Is standalone Android AppSupport for Ports still a topic under active consideration at Jolla? (flypig_, 07:33:09)
    3. <Jolla> We've looked at the possibility of stand-alone Android AppSupport for third party ports internally on several occasions over the last few years. (flypig_, 07:34:05)
    4. <Jolla> At each point, it was decided that the challenge of providing a product of sufficient quality and with adequate support would be too great compared to our current approach of offering the best possible experience on top of officially supported and developed adaptations. (flypig_, 07:34:14)
    5. <Jolla> It's worth noting that Android AppSupport for community ports is more than just providing the relevant packages. (flypig_, 07:34:25)
    6. <Jolla> We'd also need processes for verifying that everything works, ensuring the right apps are made available in the Store, ensuring that ports are kept up-to-date and also implementing technical changes to the repository backend. (flypig_, 07:34:33)
    7. <Jolla> Having said all that, we are still actively investigating the possibility right now once again. The plans aren't what might be called "advanced", however, so if we were to do this, it wouldn't be in the immediate future. (flypig_, 07:34:45)

  5. discontinuous 4G connectivity on 10iii (10 minutes -- asked by cyberlyra) (flypig_, 07:48:19)
    1. <cyberlyra> 10iii users report requiring reset network subsystem to regain connectivity. (flypig_, 07:48:27)
    2. <cyberlyra> May occur when switching from Wi-Fi to data, or 3G to 4G. (flypig, 07:54:08)
    3. <cyberlyra> Initial reports assumed volte beta enabled, later reports with no volte. An update is appreciated. (flypig, 07:54:13)
    4. https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/unable-to-use-mobile-data-on-sony-xperia-10-iii-4-4-0-64/11560/28 (flypig, 07:54:19)
    5. https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/11570 (flypig, 07:54:23)
    6. <Jolla> Thank you for highlighting this. We've been following the discussion on the forum and are aware of some of the potential underlying causes. (flypig, 07:54:53)
    7. <Jolla> We're particular grateful to direc85 and senders on the forum for investigating the networking side of it so carefully and deeply. (flypig, 07:54:59)
    8. <Jolla> We're working on a solution. You can see some of this ongoing work in the connman PR #29. However, as this is ongoing work we can't provide any timescales for when it will be ready. (flypig, 07:55:08)
    9. <Jolla> To see how things progress, our best advice is to follow the PR, to keep an eye on Damien's Repository Roundup in the community newsletter, or to follow the threads in the forum for any updates posted there. (flypig, 07:55:18)
    10. https://github.com/sailfishos/connman/pull/29 (flypig, 07:55:22)
    11. anyone feeling brave enough could try to build this version of connman if they have conflicts with volte connections, but it's very preliminary: https://github.com/sailfishos/connman/pull/29/commits/df2ece60b7ce7d79bf9c436d592b3e6198f4f60d (abranson, 08:00:05)

  6. Collaboration between Jolla and mobile phone manufacturer (5 minutes -- asked by pherjung) (flypig, 08:02:32)
    1. <pherjung> Swiss enterprise Recommerce AG has now his own phone called Rephone. (flypig, 08:02:54)
    2. <pherjung> What are the conditions Recommerce AG should achieve so SailfishOS is supported with Android App Support? (flypig, 08:02:59)
    3. <Jolla> Thanks for highlighting the new Rephone. It goes without saying, but we're always interested to know about new mobile devices, and the Rephone's focus on sustainability looks like an interesting proposition. (flypig, 08:03:13)
    4. <Jolla> Following on from the earlier question about Android AppSupport for ports, at present Jolla doesn't offer Android AppSupport for third party adaptations without a commercial licence. (flypig, 08:03:21)
    5. <Jolla> Recommerce AG are of course welcome to contact Jolla about the possibility. Without a broader Android AppSupport programme for Sailfish OS ports, the conditions would most likely be contractual and commercial. (flypig, 08:03:30)
    6. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/volla-phone-22-the-beauty-of-freedom#/ (flypig, 08:09:59)
    7. https://www.gigaset.com/hq_en/gigaset-gs5/ (flypig, 08:10:24)

  7. What's the next official device that will be supported by Sailfish OS. Are there any plans to release the Sailfish OS to a (current) high end device? (5 minutes -- asked by HtheB) (flypig, 08:16:00)
    1. <HtheB> I am considering to get a Sony device, however, if there are plans to release Sailfish OS to a new phone soon, should someone better wait for the next device? (flypig, 08:16:08)
    2. <Jolla> As you'll know from previous Sailfish OS releases, Jolla doesn't generally announce support for new devices until plans are already well advanced. (flypig, 08:16:46)
    3. <Jolla> Our focus has been on development for the Xperia 10 III and we're really happy with the Sailfish OS experience on the device. The Xperia 10 III undoubtedly provides the current flagship Sailfish OS experience. (flypig, 08:16:52)
    4. <Jolla> So, at present we don't have any information to provide about potential support for future devices. (flypig, 08:17:00)
    5. <Jolla> Looking back at previous releases may give some idea about the sort of timescales involved in developing new quality adaptations, but of course there's no guarantee that this will match any timescales in the future. (flypig, 08:17:08)

  8. 4g on both SIMs (5 minutes -- asked by remote) (flypig, 08:27:32)
    1. <remote> SFOS doesn't support 4g on both SIM slots, android (and HW) does. Hence the restriction of volte on data sim (=4g) only. (flypig, 08:27:37)
    2. <Jolla> We're not fully clear what the question is here (maybe it's just a topic for discussion?). (flypig, 08:27:51)
    3. <Jolla> At any rate, it's correct that Sailfish OS only supports data on a single SIM at a time, and that VoLTE is only supported on the SIM with an active data connection. (flypig, 08:27:57)
    4. <Jolla> VoLTE is a beta feature at the moment, so this is something that may change in the future. (flypig, 08:28:02)

  9. What are the plans regarding the memory problems on devices like the XA2? (10 minutes -- asked by thilo) (flypig, 08:34:32)
    1. <thilo> Since sandboxing one is confronted with the oom killer much more often. (flypig, 08:34:41)
    2. <thilo> Are there plans to make the oom killer prioritize better (thus prioritize apps that are not used currently)? (flypig, 08:34:49)
    3. <thilo> What is the current strategy of the oom killer? Are there plans to reduce the memory footprint with sandboxing? (flypig, 08:34:59)
    4. <Jolla> Thanks for raising this. We are aware that, partly due to increased memory usage of -- for example -- the browser, video decoding and Android AppSupport, OOM killing has become more common on recent releases of Sailfish OS, especially on devices with less memory. (flypig, 08:35:18)
    5. <Jolla> There have also been changes to the kernel which have complicated this. So, we are aware of the issue and have been actively investigating potential solutions. However there are no public PRs related to the work just yet. (flypig, 08:35:28)
    6. <Jolla> It's also worth noting that because of the different adaptations and kernel versions, different devices may need different approaches. We already received some useful input from Karry in relation to this, and this is a good opportunity for us to thank Karry for the input. (flypig, 08:35:36)
    7. https://www.karry.cz/en/karry/blog/2021/11/07/sailfishos_memory/ (flypig, 08:35:40)

  10. Background services (10m -- asked by thilo) (flypig, 08:44:22)
    1. <thilo> What are the future plans for background services? (flypig, 08:44:32)
    2. <thilo> I remember that it was a quite high rated feature in a poll. (flypig, 08:44:48)
    3. <thilo> But to my knowledge it is still not possible for e.g. Chatapps to poll data without being open. (flypig, 08:44:52)
    4. <Jolla> This is something we've looked in to, and have onging tasks related to. In short, it's something we understand the value of, and would like to offer. (flypig, 08:45:11)
    5. <Jolla> However at the same time it's important that allowing apps to support background services can't lead to a situation where apps abuse the capability, potentially leading to a degreation in performance of the entire phone, or excessive battery consumption. (flypig, 08:45:19)
    6. <Jolla> However at the same time it's important that allowing apps to support background services can't lead to a situation where apps abuse the capability, potentially leading to a degredation in performance of the entire phone, or excessive battery consumption. (flypig, 08:45:49)
    7. <Jolla> In order to avoid this, we have outstanding technical tasks that need to be completed, specifically related to tuning cgroups to prevent excessive resource usage, before we can reasonably consider changing the harbour rules on this. (flypig, 08:45:54)
    8. https://systemd.io/DESKTOP_ENVIRONMENTS is a good read on this topic if you're interesting in background information. (Thaodan, 08:47:36)
    9. Thaodan suggested to look a the following for useful background info. (flypig, 08:48:10)
    10. https://systemd.io/DESKTOP_ENVIRONMENTS (flypig, 08:48:12)

  11. General discussion (10 min) (flypig, 08:59:23)
    1. fridlmue - community (sorry for beeing late, other meeting...) (fridlmue, 09:08:22)
    2. <ExTechOp> This is the forum discussion thread on Xperia 10 III, Android 11, and Emma. (flypig, 09:09:36)
    3. https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sony-xperia-iii-android-12/11029/8 (flypig, 09:09:46)

  12. Next meeting time and date (5 min) (flypig, 09:11:55)
    1. Next meeting will be held on Thursday 23rd June 2022 at 07:00am UTC: 2022-06-23T0700Z (flypig, 09:13:53)

Meeting ended at 09:16:36 UTC (full logs).

Action items

  1. (none)

People present (lines said)

  1. flypig (130)
  2. flypig_ (76)
  3. thilo[m] (29)
  4. Thaodan (28)
  5. abranson (21)
  6. ExTechOp (16)
  7. pherjung (11)
  8. Keto (9)
  9. sledges (7)
  10. Nico (4)
  11. Solrac[m] (4)
  12. lal883[m] (4)
  13. sailbot (2)
  14. sebix[m] (2)
  15. fridlmue (2)
  16. rainemak_ (1)
  17. rainemak (1)
  18. dcaliste (1)
  19. piggz (1)
  20. foobar (1)

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