#sailfishos-meeting: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 9th June 2022
Meeting started by flypig_ at 07:01:54 UTC
(full logs).
Meeting summary
-
- Meeting information and agenda can be found
here: (flypig_,
07:02:15)
- https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-9th-june-2022/11704
(flypig_,
07:02:18)
- Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (flypig_, 07:02:31)
- Nico, community and on a train (Nico,
07:02:52)
- Simonas Leleiva - privateer for Jolla
(sledges,
07:03:12)
- David Llewellyn-Jones - sailor @ jolla
(flypig_,
07:03:17)
- Andrew Branson - sailing by (abranson,
07:03:54)
- thigg, community and on a train (thilo[m],
07:05:03)
- Solrac, community (Solrac[m],
07:05:17)
- Björn Bidar - Sailor @ Jolla (Thaodan,
07:05:33)
- Raine Mäkeläinen - Sailor @ Jolla (rainemak,
07:06:27)
- Sebix - community (sebix[m],
07:06:37)
- Otto Mäkelä, community (ExTechOp,
07:07:00)
- OBS Improvement for ports (20 minutes -- asked by piggz) (flypig_, 07:08:07)
- <piggz> At around Sailfish 4.3, and new
hw-common repository was added which packages common hw adaptation
packages which can now be shared across devices. (flypig_,
07:08:42)
- <piggz> When building on OBS for
community ports, these packages are not available, so it is still
necessary to build certain packages to allow the droid-hal-version
package to build correctly. (flypig_,
07:08:50)
- <piggz> Could the packages in the new
common repository be added to the OBS targets to reduce the amount
of packages needed to be built by ports? (flypig_,
07:09:01)
- <piggz> (lbt will be useful here)
(flypig_,
07:09:07)
- <Jolla> As you've noted, it makes sense
to make these packages available for ports. (flypig_,
07:09:31)
- <Jolla> I asked lbt about it and he
explained that it was something that he had already been
considering. However, he also noted that it would potentially be a
non-trivial task, and he's currently focussed on other
things. (flypig_,
07:09:37)
- <Jolla> It's therefore on his TODO list
to look at, but without any timescale for when it might be
possible. (flypig_,
07:09:48)
- Damien Caliste, community (dcaliste,
07:14:08)
- <Thaodan> the repo that contains those
packages (hw-common) is already public since it is already used by
official devices. It can be already used on the port itself after
being built on obs. (flypig_,
07:15:11)
- <Thaodan> the direct rpm repo needs to be
added to the obs since releasing already creates the hw-common
repo. (flypig_,
07:16:49)
- pherjung, community (pherjung,
07:16:51)
- Bug roundup (5 minutes -- asked by pherjung) (flypig_, 07:20:30)
- <pherjung> A summary of the amazing
bug-herding work of the Community Bug Coordination team over the
last fortnight. (flypig_,
07:20:33)
- <Jolla> We've been through the untracked
reports. Rather than list them all individually, here's a summary of
the results: (flypig_,
07:20:52)
- <Jolla> 10 new bug reports have been
recorded internally, all now tagged as "tracked" on the
forum. (flypig_,
07:20:58)
- <Jolla> 2 bugs already had an internal
report, and are now correctly tagged as "tracked" in the
forum. (flypig_,
07:21:04)
- <Jolla> 1 report has been marked as
"pending", since it's not quite clear what the best way to handle it
is yet. (flypig_,
07:21:09)
- <Jolla> There were also 11 bugs flagged
as duplicates. I've not had a chance to go through these yet I'm
afraid, as they'll require a bit of extra work. (flypig_,
07:21:17)
- <Jolla> For info, the pending report is
the following: (flypig_,
07:21:31)
- https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/xperia-10-iii-availability-of-volte-in-italy/11644
(flypig_,
07:21:34)
- <Jolla> Working with high-quality reports
makes it much easier to report and act on them internally.
(flypig_,
07:21:40)
- <Jolla> So thank you once again for your
work improving and highlighting the bug reports. (flypig_,
07:21:43)
- Standalone AppSupport license for ports (10 minutes -- asked by fridlmue) (flypig_, 07:32:56)
- <fridlmue> This is a follow up on the
general discussion of the last meeting. (flypig_,
07:33:04)
- <fridlmue> My question, which was
suggested do be a separate topic on the following meeting, was: Is
standalone Android AppSupport for Ports still a topic under active
consideration at Jolla? (flypig_,
07:33:09)
- <Jolla> We've looked at the possibility
of stand-alone Android AppSupport for third party ports internally
on several occasions over the last few years. (flypig_,
07:34:05)
- <Jolla> At each point, it was decided
that the challenge of providing a product of sufficient quality and
with adequate support would be too great compared to our current
approach of offering the best possible experience on top of
officially supported and developed adaptations. (flypig_,
07:34:14)
- <Jolla> It's worth noting that Android
AppSupport for community ports is more than just providing the
relevant packages. (flypig_,
07:34:25)
- <Jolla> We'd also need processes for
verifying that everything works, ensuring the right apps are made
available in the Store, ensuring that ports are kept up-to-date and
also implementing technical changes to the repository
backend. (flypig_,
07:34:33)
- <Jolla> Having said all that, we are
still actively investigating the possibility right now once again.
The plans aren't what might be called "advanced", however, so if we
were to do this, it wouldn't be in the immediate future.
(flypig_,
07:34:45)
- discontinuous 4G connectivity on 10iii (10 minutes -- asked by cyberlyra) (flypig_, 07:48:19)
- <cyberlyra> 10iii users report requiring
reset network subsystem to regain connectivity. (flypig_,
07:48:27)
- <cyberlyra> May occur when switching from
Wi-Fi to data, or 3G to 4G. (flypig,
07:54:08)
- <cyberlyra> Initial reports assumed volte
beta enabled, later reports with no volte. An update is
appreciated. (flypig,
07:54:13)
- https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/unable-to-use-mobile-data-on-sony-xperia-10-iii-4-4-0-64/11560/28
(flypig,
07:54:19)
- https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/11570
(flypig,
07:54:23)
- <Jolla> Thank you for highlighting this.
We've been following the discussion on the forum and are aware of
some of the potential underlying causes. (flypig,
07:54:53)
- <Jolla> We're particular grateful to
direc85 and senders on the forum for investigating the networking
side of it so carefully and deeply. (flypig,
07:54:59)
- <Jolla> We're working on a solution. You
can see some of this ongoing work in the connman PR #29. However, as
this is ongoing work we can't provide any timescales for when it
will be ready. (flypig,
07:55:08)
- <Jolla> To see how things progress, our
best advice is to follow the PR, to keep an eye on Damien's
Repository Roundup in the community newsletter, or to follow the
threads in the forum for any updates posted there. (flypig,
07:55:18)
- https://github.com/sailfishos/connman/pull/29
(flypig,
07:55:22)
- anyone feeling brave enough could try to build
this version of connman if they have conflicts with volte
connections, but it's very preliminary:
https://github.com/sailfishos/connman/pull/29/commits/df2ece60b7ce7d79bf9c436d592b3e6198f4f60d
(abranson,
08:00:05)
- Collaboration between Jolla and mobile phone manufacturer (5 minutes -- asked by pherjung) (flypig, 08:02:32)
- <pherjung> Swiss enterprise Recommerce AG
has now his own phone called Rephone. (flypig,
08:02:54)
- <pherjung> What are the conditions
Recommerce AG should achieve so SailfishOS is supported with Android
App Support? (flypig,
08:02:59)
- <Jolla> Thanks for highlighting the new
Rephone. It goes without saying, but we're always interested to know
about new mobile devices, and the Rephone's focus on sustainability
looks like an interesting proposition. (flypig,
08:03:13)
- <Jolla> Following on from the earlier
question about Android AppSupport for ports, at present Jolla
doesn't offer Android AppSupport for third party adaptations without
a commercial licence. (flypig,
08:03:21)
- <Jolla> Recommerce AG are of course
welcome to contact Jolla about the possibility. Without a broader
Android AppSupport programme for Sailfish OS ports, the conditions
would most likely be contractual and commercial. (flypig,
08:03:30)
- https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/volla-phone-22-the-beauty-of-freedom#/
(flypig,
08:09:59)
- https://www.gigaset.com/hq_en/gigaset-gs5/
(flypig,
08:10:24)
- What's the next official device that will be supported by Sailfish OS. Are there any plans to release the Sailfish OS to a (current) high end device? (5 minutes -- asked by HtheB) (flypig, 08:16:00)
- <HtheB> I am considering to get a Sony
device, however, if there are plans to release Sailfish OS to a new
phone soon, should someone better wait for the next device?
(flypig,
08:16:08)
- <Jolla> As you'll know from previous
Sailfish OS releases, Jolla doesn't generally announce support for
new devices until plans are already well advanced. (flypig,
08:16:46)
- <Jolla> Our focus has been on development
for the Xperia 10 III and we're really happy with the Sailfish OS
experience on the device. The Xperia 10 III undoubtedly provides the
current flagship Sailfish OS experience. (flypig,
08:16:52)
- <Jolla> So, at present we don't have any
information to provide about potential support for future
devices. (flypig,
08:17:00)
- <Jolla> Looking back at previous releases
may give some idea about the sort of timescales involved in
developing new quality adaptations, but of course there's no
guarantee that this will match any timescales in the future.
(flypig,
08:17:08)
- 4g on both SIMs (5 minutes -- asked by remote) (flypig, 08:27:32)
- <remote> SFOS doesn't support 4g on both
SIM slots, android (and HW) does. Hence the restriction of volte on
data sim (=4g) only. (flypig,
08:27:37)
- <Jolla> We're not fully clear what the
question is here (maybe it's just a topic for discussion?).
(flypig,
08:27:51)
- <Jolla> At any rate, it's correct that
Sailfish OS only supports data on a single SIM at a time, and that
VoLTE is only supported on the SIM with an active data
connection. (flypig,
08:27:57)
- <Jolla> VoLTE is a beta feature at the
moment, so this is something that may change in the future.
(flypig,
08:28:02)
- What are the plans regarding the memory problems on devices like the XA2? (10 minutes -- asked by thilo) (flypig, 08:34:32)
- <thilo> Since sandboxing one is
confronted with the oom killer much more often. (flypig,
08:34:41)
- <thilo> Are there plans to make the oom
killer prioritize better (thus prioritize apps that are not used
currently)? (flypig,
08:34:49)
- <thilo> What is the current strategy of
the oom killer? Are there plans to reduce the memory footprint with
sandboxing? (flypig,
08:34:59)
- <Jolla> Thanks for raising this. We are
aware that, partly due to increased memory usage of -- for example
-- the browser, video decoding and Android AppSupport, OOM killing
has become more common on recent releases of Sailfish OS, especially
on devices with less memory. (flypig,
08:35:18)
- <Jolla> There have also been changes to
the kernel which have complicated this. So, we are aware of the
issue and have been actively investigating potential solutions.
However there are no public PRs related to the work just yet.
(flypig,
08:35:28)
- <Jolla> It's also worth noting that
because of the different adaptations and kernel versions, different
devices may need different approaches. We already received some
useful input from Karry in relation to this, and this is a good
opportunity for us to thank Karry for the input. (flypig,
08:35:36)
- https://www.karry.cz/en/karry/blog/2021/11/07/sailfishos_memory/
(flypig,
08:35:40)
- Background services (10m -- asked by thilo) (flypig, 08:44:22)
- <thilo> What are the future plans for
background services? (flypig,
08:44:32)
- <thilo> I remember that it was a quite
high rated feature in a poll. (flypig,
08:44:48)
- <thilo> But to my knowledge it is still
not possible for e.g. Chatapps to poll data without being
open. (flypig,
08:44:52)
- <Jolla> This is something we've looked in
to, and have onging tasks related to. In short, it's something we
understand the value of, and would like to offer. (flypig,
08:45:11)
- <Jolla> However at the same time it's
important that allowing apps to support background services can't
lead to a situation where apps abuse the capability, potentially
leading to a degreation in performance of the entire phone, or
excessive battery consumption. (flypig,
08:45:19)
- <Jolla> However at the same time it's
important that allowing apps to support background services can't
lead to a situation where apps abuse the capability, potentially
leading to a degredation in performance of the entire phone, or
excessive battery consumption. (flypig,
08:45:49)
- <Jolla> In order to avoid this, we have
outstanding technical tasks that need to be completed, specifically
related to tuning cgroups to prevent excessive resource usage,
before we can reasonably consider changing the harbour rules on
this. (flypig,
08:45:54)
- https://systemd.io/DESKTOP_ENVIRONMENTS
is a good read on this topic if you're interesting in background
information. (Thaodan,
08:47:36)
- Thaodan suggested to look a the following for
useful background info. (flypig,
08:48:10)
- https://systemd.io/DESKTOP_ENVIRONMENTS
(flypig,
08:48:12)
- General discussion (10 min) (flypig, 08:59:23)
- fridlmue - community (sorry for beeing late,
other meeting...) (fridlmue,
09:08:22)
- <ExTechOp> This is the forum discussion
thread on Xperia 10 III, Android 11, and Emma. (flypig,
09:09:36)
- https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sony-xperia-iii-android-12/11029/8
(flypig,
09:09:46)
- Next meeting time and date (5 min) (flypig, 09:11:55)
- Next meeting will be held on Thursday 23rd June
2022 at 07:00am UTC: 2022-06-23T0700Z (flypig,
09:13:53)
Meeting ended at 09:16:36 UTC
(full logs).
Action items
- (none)
People present (lines said)
- flypig (130)
- flypig_ (76)
- thilo[m] (29)
- Thaodan (28)
- abranson (21)
- ExTechOp (16)
- pherjung (11)
- Keto (9)
- sledges (7)
- Nico (4)
- Solrac[m] (4)
- lal883[m] (4)
- sailbot (2)
- sebix[m] (2)
- fridlmue (2)
- rainemak_ (1)
- rainemak (1)
- dcaliste (1)
- piggz (1)
- foobar (1)
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