07:00:08 <flypig> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 1st September 2022
07:00:08 <sailbot> Meeting started Thu Sep  1 07:00:08 2022 UTC. The chair is flypig. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
07:00:08 <sailbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
07:00:16 <flypig> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:
07:00:21 <flypig> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-1st-september-2022/12698
07:00:32 <flypig> Nice to see people already here!
07:00:33 <flypig> I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings, don't worry amd be happy.
07:00:42 <flypig> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info
07:00:46 <ExTechOp> #info Otto Mäkelä, community
07:00:56 <ViGe> #info Ville Nummela, sailor @ jolla
07:01:06 <flypig> #info David Llewellyn-Jones, another sailor @ jolla
07:02:19 <Thaodan> #info Björ Bidar, yet another sailor @ jolla
07:02:23 <rainemak> #info Raine Mäkeläinen sailor @ Jolla
07:02:32 <sebix[m]> @info Sebix, community
07:02:50 <Nico> #info Nico, noisy community
07:03:03 <sebix[m]> #info sebix, community
07:03:14 <flypig> Team Jolla had an early lead, but the community are pulling it back :)
07:03:17 <abr> #info Andrew Branson, sailor
07:03:20 <sebix[m]> mixing keys...
07:03:27 <flypig> :D
07:03:51 <flypig> Do you want to be officially recorded Crabster?
07:04:29 <Nico> I have really come to appreciate the time Jolla sailors take for these meetings after being involved with some other projects, so I actually don't mind sailors winning in count anymore :3
07:04:40 <sebix[m]> flypig: Who would not qualify to be one?
07:04:54 <sebix[m]> * Who would *not, * not* qualify
07:05:37 <flypig> Qualify to be what sebix[m]?
07:05:49 <JacekJagosz[m]> #info Jacek Jagosz, community
07:06:11 <flypig> I think that's 5:5 now. Tense :)
07:06:54 <Nico> Score is now 5:5, only a few minutes left to play! WHO WILL TAKE THIS THING HOME TODAY!
07:07:05 * Nico feels like we are moderating a sports game
07:07:09 <flypig> Nico, that's nice of you to say, but it's always really nice to see lots of people from the community here too.
07:07:19 <Nico> Obviously, yes :D
07:07:34 <flypig> Alright, let's wrap it up as a score-draw then!
07:07:58 <flypig> Before we get on to the questions proper, we have an update about the Store APIs.
07:07:59 <flypig> #topic Update: What are the upcoming planned changes for harbour validation? (10 mins -- asked by jolla)
07:08:04 <flypig> #info <jolla> There have been some interesting looking PRs merged into the harbour validator recently.
07:08:11 <flypig> #info <jolla> Does this mean we can now use more things in the Jolla Store? Will this affect Sailjail permissions too?
07:08:22 <flypig> I'm hoping ViGe has an answer for us?
07:08:29 <ViGe> Thanks flypig!
07:08:33 <ViGe> Indeed, like some of you have noticed, we will indeed allow quite a few new APIs in Harbour once the 4.5.0 release comes out.
07:08:39 <ViGe> The plan is simply to allow as many new APIs as possible, given the limits we have on time and resources.
07:08:47 <ViGe> I suppose that was the good news. The bad news is that because we lack the resources, we had to lower the bar a little bit in order to get the APIs in.
07:08:56 <ViGe> So, while the new APIs will have their documentation in https://sailfishos.org/develop/docs/, you will find out that for most of the new APIS the documentation is quite empty, at least in the beginning.
07:09:07 <ViGe> And also, some of the APIs are still not 100% stable, so we can't really promise that we won't make API breaking changes to them in the future.
07:09:20 <ViGe> So far, we have in the pipeline Sailfish Secrets and Crypto, QtLocation, Sailfish Media, Sailfish Contacts, Sailfish Accounts and Sailfish Telephony. And hopefully we can add some more :)
07:09:33 <ViGe> And yes, this will affect Sailjail permissions as well - the permissions needed to use the new APIs will be allowed.
07:09:56 <Nico> Oh, Secrets in harbour, finally!
07:10:47 <flypig> That's a lot of new APIs. Very nice.
07:10:48 <ViGe> I hope that answers your questions, but if you have more questions, feel free to ask :)
07:11:15 <flypig> So, these aren't available right *now*. They'll be available in the SDK when?
07:11:28 <Nico> What do Sailfish Accounts and Sailfish Telephony do?
07:11:59 <Nico> Like can I make my own accounts that are shown in the settings or just access accounts?
07:12:22 <ViGe> flypig: Well, the APIs are there in the SDK. It's just that they aren't allowed in Harbour yet. We will allow them when we release Sailfish OS 4.5.0.
07:13:55 <flypig> Thanks!
07:14:50 <ViGe> Nico: I'm really not the expert in the APIs themselves, so I can't give really detailed answers to what they actually do. My understanding is that the accounts API allows you to access the accounts.
07:15:40 <Nico> Mhm, I would love to be able to add my own native accounts there, but maybe in the future. Thanks!
07:16:07 <Thaodan> Wasn't the accounts api related to the social media api used by the twitter plugin?
07:16:25 <Thaodan> Someone could implement native mastodon the the events-view.
07:16:46 <flypig> That would be great! And, I think, not that difficult either :)
07:16:51 <abr> also mail and IM
07:16:58 <Nico> Oh, that sounds great!
07:17:00 <Thaodan> Yeah
07:17:12 <Nico> Looking forward to many new apps using it :D
07:17:14 <Thaodan> Shipping more accounts for more email provirers
07:17:19 <Thaodan> *providers
07:17:50 <flypig> Okay, we hit time on this topic. I'll just log what ViGe said for the minutes.
07:17:56 <flypig> #info <ViGe> The plan is simply to allow as many new APIs as possible [from 4.5.0], given the limits we have on time and resources.
07:17:57 <rainemak> #info As ViGe commented, which APIs end up Harbour allow is one thing and other thing is that more APIs will appear in the  https://sailfishos.org/develop/docs/ . For some APIs there may not be connection between documentation available and Harbour allowed.
07:18:32 <rainemak> ^ erase that "As ViGe commented"
07:18:47 <flypig> Sorry, mixing threads :)
07:18:49 <flypig> #undo
07:18:49 <sailbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x7f23b9c0e2e8>
07:18:52 <ViGe> Yeah, I don't think I said that :)
07:19:00 <flypig> #info <ViGe> Because we lack the resources, we had to lower the bar a little bit in order to get the APIs in.
07:19:04 <flypig> #info <ViGe> While the new APIs will have their documentation in https://sailfishos.org/develop/docs/, you will find out that for most of the new APIS the documentation is quite empty, at least in the beginning.
07:19:08 <flypig> #info <ViGe> Some of the APIs are still not 100% stable, so we can't really promise that we won't make API breaking changes to them in the future.
07:19:11 <flypig> #info <ViGe> So far, we have in the pipeline Sailfish Secrets and Crypto, QtLocation, Sailfish Media, Sailfish Contacts, Sailfish Accounts and Sailfish Telephony. And hopefully we can add some more.
07:19:13 <rainemak> Initially meant to write differently...
07:19:14 <flypig> #info <ViGe> This will affect Sailjail permissions as well - the permissions needed to use the new APIs will be allowed.
07:19:27 <flypig> Okay, I think that covers the repeat of ViGe's comments.
07:19:37 <flypig> rainemak, do please add more info.
07:20:07 <rainemak> #info Which APIs end up Harbour allow is one thing and other thing is that more APIs will appear in the https://sailfishos.org/develop/docs/ . For some APIs there may not be connection between documentation available and Harbour allowed.
07:20:30 <flypig> That's clear, thanks rainemak.
07:20:35 <rainemak> Just to make it clear
07:20:57 <flypig> Okay, if there are no objections, I'll move us on to the next topic.
07:21:16 <rainemak> flypig, thank you
07:21:25 <flypig> #topic Do new SFOS versions use the newest device configurations from Sony? (5 min -- asked by JacekJagosz)
07:21:34 <flypig> #info <JacekJagosz> While investigating this issue:
07:21:38 <flypig> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/xperia-10-iii-uses-performance-governor-for-gold-cores-where-it-probably-shouldnt/12695
07:21:47 <flypig> #info <JacekJagosz> I traced it back to Sony's Lena config, where CPU cores were improperly configured.
07:21:56 <flypig> #info <JacekJagosz> I discussed it there, and my pull request to fix it was merged immediately:
07:22:14 <flypig> #link https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/device-sony-lena/pull/21
07:22:18 <flypig> #info <JacekJagosz> So my question then is, will next SFOS version use this fixed config?
07:22:25 <flypig> #info <JacekJagosz> Does new version always use newest config (that was available during development), or is it updated only when there was something really important in there?
07:22:49 <flypig> I'm not sure whether JacekJagosz could make it today. We have a prepared answer, and then I hope Thaodan will expand a little.
07:22:55 <flypig> #info <Jolla> Thank you for your excellent work in fixing the issue JacekJagosz.
07:23:02 <flypig> #info <Jolla> As can be seen on the pull request, Thaodan reviewed your changes and concluded that they needed to be pushed into the r-mr1 branch of Sony’s repositories in order fot them to be integrated with Xperia 10 III devices running Sailfish OS.
07:23:13 <flypig> #info <Jolla> (the branch name represent the Android Version name)
07:23:21 <flypig> #info <Jolla> Sony went ahead and did this on 24th August, so we’re now in a position to integrate this with Sailfish OS, which we hope to do for the next release (but we can’t guarantee it at this stage).
07:23:35 <flypig> That's the prepared answer. Please feel free to expand.
07:24:55 <JacekJagosz[m]> What is the policy? Is r-mr1 branch always updated in the release process?
07:25:01 <Thaodan> the answer is out of date right now, the changes are in the Android 11/r branch right now and we will update the Xperia 10 III droids-ystem for the next release.
07:25:14 <flypig> A, good that you could be here JacekJagosz[m].
07:25:18 <Thaodan> It is not always updated but updated when we rebuild the package
07:25:19 <JacekJagosz[m]> Or is it only done if SFOS devs deem it useful?
07:25:32 <Thaodan> some of the changes in that branch are invalid
07:26:03 <flypig> JacekJagosz[m], could you explain for us briefly what your changes do?
07:26:25 <flypig> If you prefix the important parts with "#info" they'll be added to the minutes.
07:26:27 <JacekJagosz[m]> Also, what is the difference between different Sony branches?
07:26:28 <JacekJagosz[m]> I know it should be Android version name
07:26:35 <Thaodan> please wait a sec
07:26:49 <JacekJagosz[m]> But I couldn't find any info on that
07:27:19 <JacekJagosz[m]> #info My changes fixed Sony's CPU configuration
07:27:29 <Thaodan> When we enabled lmk on the Xperia 10 III we copied the Xperia 10- II values and adjusted them values for the Xperia 10 III.
07:28:14 <Thaodan> When JacekJagosz[m] imported the seine/Xperia 10 II lmk values to lena he copied the values from that device but did not adjust them.
07:28:31 <JacekJagosz[m]> They mistakingly applied the configuration to core 6 and 7, instead of 8 and 9
07:28:48 <JacekJagosz[m]> Which meant Gold cores in 10 III were left without configuration and using Performance governor
07:28:50 <Thaodan> Now they are wrong in upstream but we have our own patch and will rebuild with those fixes.
07:29:08 <flypig> JacekJagosz[m], so the changes could result in a performance boost?
07:29:11 <Thaodan> but yeah just write through me
07:29:18 <ExTechOp> Was feedback given to Sony about this error?
07:29:49 <Thaodan> Anyway those are the proper lmk values for the Xperia 10 III: https://github.com/mer-hybris/droid-src-sony/commit/dfb3dff5ff7a268ee03ad7a461508203e9d0c0cd
07:29:49 <dr_gogeta86> #info dr_gogeta86 - community
07:30:37 <JacekJagosz[m]> LMK settings are another thing entirely
07:30:58 <JacekJagosz[m]> I wanted to see them merged because of CPU configuration
07:31:11 <Thaodan> Sure but your PR broke them we are talking about your PR are we?
07:32:08 <JacekJagosz[m]> @flypig they should result in lower power consumption
07:32:49 <flypig> JacekJagosz[m], got it, thank you for clarifying. I'll add that to the minutes too.
07:33:16 <flypig> #info <JacekJagosz[m]> [The changes] should result in lower power consumption
07:33:45 <ExTechOp> (Question from the peanut gallery: Did I understand correctly that parts of the "Sony binary blobs" that were initially installed on the phone get updated along with SFOS updates?)
07:34:45 <JacekJagosz[m]> Thaodan: If my other PR with LMK settings broke something, could you please comment on the bugtracker? I am sorry aboit that
07:34:46 <Thaodan> ExTechOp: No they have to be updated manually in case there are updates
07:34:51 <Thaodan> but there were none so far
07:35:03 <ExTechOp> OK
07:35:17 <JacekJagosz[m]> But I checked both them and CPU config fix and they all worked on my device
07:35:28 <abr> It would be quite difficult to juggle reflashing that with an update that requires it. we haven't got a mechanism for doing that yet, but it's been discussed.
07:37:52 <flypig> We're hitting time on this topic. Would you like more time to discuss? Anything else to add to the minutes.
07:39:07 <flypig> Okay, let's move on to Open PRs then. Thanks for the useful discussion and clarifications JacekJagosz[m], Thaodan.
07:39:13 <Nico> Jacek Jagosz, I don't think reactions are bridged to IRC :3
07:39:23 <flypig> #topic Open PR discussion (10 min -- asked by jolla)
07:39:28 <flypig> #info <jolla> Any open PRs to discuss?
07:39:51 <Nico> Argh, I should get to fixing my PR... I'll bring it next time ;p
07:39:57 <flypig> We didn't have any PRs posted on the forum topic, but feel free to raise any now.
07:40:03 <flypig> Please do Nico!
07:40:19 <flypig> And thanks for pointing out about the reactions. I hope they were smiley faces and not frowny faces.
07:40:34 <Nico> They were thumb ups
07:40:51 <flypig> :thumbsup:
07:42:22 <Nico> Seems like there are no PRs to discuss :3
07:42:40 <flypig> Let's take that as a good sign :)
07:43:05 <flypig> Okay, let's move on to the bug summary then.
07:43:19 <flypig> #info No open PRs to discuss today.
07:43:21 <flypig> #topic Update: Untracked bug reports (5 min -- asked by pherjung)
07:43:28 <flypig> #info <jolla> The Community Bug Coordination Team have done a superb job once again this fortnight.
07:43:33 <flypig> #info <Jolla> - 9 new bugs added to our internal database and tagged as "tracked"
07:43:37 <flypig> #info <Jolla> - 4 bugs marked as "fixed"
07:43:41 <flypig> #info <Jolla> - 1 bug moved to the "General" category.
07:43:57 <flypig> As always, an amazing effort from the team testing bugs and herding bug reports. Thank you.
07:44:23 <Nico> There's also a cool new tool, afaik
07:44:43 <flypig> Nico, can you share a link?
07:44:53 <Nico> https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/introducing-new-tool-bugger-the-inofficial-sfos-bug-reporting-tool/12787
07:45:47 <abr> nothing like a bit of mild swearing for an app name :D
07:46:07 <Nico> Well, how do you react to bugs? :D
07:46:11 <flypig> Very apt :)
07:46:33 <Thaodan> nice idea, would be much for this in the os itself, we had ideas for something like this but no time.
07:47:04 <Nico> Well, maybe this is something for you to integrate in the future, after it had some testing
07:47:05 <ExTechOp> You really should have called it "buggery" :-D
07:47:15 <flypig> I hope it gets a lot of use. It addresses the issue of good bug formatting nicely. I agree Thaodan it'd be neat to integrate it.
07:47:46 <Nico> Well, I wasn't really involved with the tool, I just saw them talking about it. Was too busy training through Germany :3
07:47:59 <Nico> But yeah, what the team does is pretty amazing
07:48:14 <Nico> Not only triaging bugs, but also writing tools to make it easier
07:48:24 <flypig> A superb effort indeed.
07:48:27 <Thaodan> Nico: well these times did end now ;p, lindner to thank, the porschhe minister
07:48:53 <Nico> I think they are currently even thinking about a kanban board or so to track the bug reporting status on or so
07:49:05 <flypig> One more minute on this, then we move to General discussion.
07:49:56 <Nico> Thaodan: I know, I am stuck in Berlin because I missed my train home and need to buy a ticket now! But it seems like Wissing actually convinced Lindner in some fisticuffs fight, so maybe there will be a follow up and I can get home! ;p
07:50:30 <flypig> Okay, let's move to General, since I think we already started :)
07:50:31 <flypig> #topic General discussion (20 min)
07:50:49 <ExTechOp> https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/10iii-crashes-with-beep-when-plugged-into-docking-station/12481 I've just this morning figured out this dramatic crash happens also to a freshly booted Xperia 10III
07:51:18 <Nico> docking station? o.o
07:51:33 <flypig> ExTechOp, we discussed this last time if I recall correctly. Could you recap for us please?
07:51:37 <Thaodan> Xperia 10 III doesn't crash with otg at least
07:52:23 <Thaodan> not sure where the device would crash
07:52:26 <ExTechOp> So, I have a ready mini-docking station on the table for use with a laptop. It has a USB-C with a power supply behind it, why not plug the phone into it for recharging if needed?
07:52:36 <Thaodan> the kernel shouldn't crash at that poiny
07:52:39 <Thaodan> *point
07:53:29 <fridl> #info: fridlmue, community
07:53:29 <ExTechOp> Works without any issues with Xperia 10II, but now the 10III actually seems to try to do something with the peripherials plugged into it (display, keyboard, mouse, ethernet) and one of those crashes it.
07:53:41 <fridl> joining the last mins just for the Stats ;-P
07:53:48 <abr> can you narrow that down?
07:54:26 <flypig> Greetings fridl, and dr_gogeta86 from earlier too.
07:54:42 <ExTechOp> I believe it's mostly the display, as I've been able to produce the same crash with a display with a power delivery USB-C plugged into it. Also, unplugging the display seems to prevent crash from happening.
07:54:47 <dr_gogeta86> hi
07:54:51 <flypig> fridl, please announce yourself for the minutes if you'd like to be included.
07:55:15 <Nico> They kinda did, but maybe the colon messes stuff up?
07:55:18 <flypig> Oh, sorry fridl, you already did, my mistake.
07:55:49 <flypig> Nico, it was just me being slow.
07:56:21 <abr> yeah i would think out of those the display would be the prime suspect.
07:56:37 <abr> i just plugged my x10iii into my monitor's usb-c and it rebooted itself ;)
07:56:39 <fridl> flypig: no problem :-) Nice Jolla-question at the start. Nice answer from ViGe :-)
07:57:01 <ExTechOp> abr :-D
07:57:42 <Nico> Clearly Jolla needs to add external display support now!
07:58:26 <JacekJagosz[m]> @Thaodan I had 2 pull requests merged. The CPU configuration fix I believe is nothing wrong with
07:58:44 <JacekJagosz[m]> And the LMK tuning that you have complaints for
07:59:53 <JacekJagosz[m]> Could you tell my why the second one you think is wrong? Even with more RAM those tunings cam stay the same
08:00:39 <JacekJagosz[m]> I looked through sources for other devices, and every other one had exactly those values, no matter how much RAM it had
08:00:58 <JacekJagosz[m]> This config also worked fine for me
08:01:30 <JacekJagosz[m]> But if you know something I don't please tell
08:04:13 <flypig> JacekJagosz[m], it's possible Thaodan was pulled into a meeting I'm afraid.
08:04:28 <Thaodan> just wait a sec..
08:04:57 <Nico> It is also possible that Thaodan is just crunching number still
08:05:07 <flypig> Seems so :D
08:05:22 <Crabster> flypig, thx for asking earlier, long time enduser lurking only, appreciate what everyone is doing here
08:06:10 <flypig> Crabster, no problem. Lurking is absolutely fine of course :) But do feel free to announce yourself if you want, it's always nice to know :)
08:07:01 <flypig> fridl, thanks for the positive feedback :)
08:07:44 <flypig> We have 3 more mins on General Discussion. Does anyone want anything from the discussion logged in the minutes?
08:09:57 <Nico> Did you intent to log the bugger link?
08:10:04 <Nico> *intend
08:10:21 <flypig> Links on a line on their own get logged automatically, I believe.
08:10:32 <Nico> Oh, fancy :3
08:10:34 <flypig> So, I was expecting it to already be there.. maybe I can check.
08:10:52 * Nico has no idea how the meeting bot does its magic
08:11:06 <flypig> Nor I. As you say, using magic ;)
08:12:25 <Nico> Sooooo, Sailfish 6 will have Qt6, right?
08:12:35 <flypig> I'm not sure whether it got added, so let me add it with some context.
08:12:49 <Nico> Perfect :D
08:12:56 <flypig> #info The Bug Coordination Team have worked on a nice app for easy submission of bugs.
08:12:58 <flypig> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/introducing-new-tool-bugger-the-inofficial-sfos-bug-reporting-tool/12787
08:13:10 <flypig> Alright, we've hit time I'm afraid.
08:13:27 <flypig> I'm going to quietly ignore your question Nico ;)
08:13:39 <flypig> Thaodan, last chance to reply...
08:13:40 <Nico> I figured, very well done ;p
08:14:43 <flypig> Okay, sorry, time is up!
08:14:47 <flypig> #topic Next meeting time and date (5 min)
08:15:05 <flypig> I will be on vacation for the next meeting, bug abr has kindly offered to chair.
08:15:06 <flypig> Proposing Thursday 15th September at 07:00am UTC
08:15:33 <Nico> :thumbsup:
08:15:36 <flypig> bug -> but
08:15:43 <Nico> bugger
08:15:45 <Thaodan> JacekJagosz[m]: flypig[m] https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/device-sony-lena/pull/22
08:15:47 <flypig> :D
08:16:17 <flypig> Thanks Thaodan, just in time.
08:16:23 <ExTechOp> 15th September works for me
08:16:34 <flypig> #info <Thaodan> provided extra info on GitHub
08:16:38 <flypig> #link https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/device-sony-lena/pull/22
08:16:47 <flypig> Okay, 15th it is!
08:16:48 <flypig> #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 15th September 2022 at 07:00am UTC: 2022-09-15T0700Z
08:16:54 <flypig> Thanks all!
08:16:58 <flypig> #endmeeting