07:00:16 <rainemak> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 14th Sep 2023
07:00:16 <sailbot> Meeting started Thu Sep 14 07:00:16 2023 UTC. The chair is rainemak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
07:00:16 <sailbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
07:00:27 <rainemak> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:
07:00:32 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-14th-september-2023/16646
07:00:40 <rainemak> I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive.
07:00:40 <rainemak> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info
07:00:47 <ExTechOp> #info Otto Mäkelä, community
07:01:03 <flypig_> #info David Llewellyn-Jones, community
07:01:10 <Alan[m]> Hi. Good morning.
07:02:32 <rainemak> #info Raine Mäkeläinen, sailor @ Jolla, chairperson today
07:03:11 <Keto> #info Pami Ketolainen, sailor @ Jolla
07:03:13 <rainemak> I'm very pleased to see good amount of topics raised
07:04:55 <jpwalden> #info JP Walden, sailor @ Jolla
07:05:36 <rainemak> It's a tie 3-3 - counting Alan[m] to community
07:05:42 <sebix[m]> #info Sebix, community
07:05:54 <flypig_> Community wins! ??
07:05:57 <rainemak> community won :-)
07:06:06 <rainemak> let's move to first topic
07:06:10 <rainemak> #topic SailfishOS Edition of the Pinephone Pro (10 mins -- asked by piggz)
07:06:20 <rainemak> #info <piggz> I have been approached by Pine64, who would like to make available an edition of the PinephonePro pre-loaded with
07:06:20 <rainemak> #info <piggz> my SailfishOS port on the Pine store. I am more than happy for this to happen (with some caveats) and would like to
07:06:20 <rainemak> #info <piggz> know if Jolla would be against this in any particularly strong way. There is precedence for something like this, the
07:06:20 <rainemak> #info <piggz> “Jolla Devices” store sells sony xperias pre-loaded with the free editions of SailfishOS, and I would of-course not be
07:06:23 <rainemak> #info <piggz> shipping any of the components that typically require the SailfishX license. I see this good PR and advertising for
07:06:26 <rainemak> #info <piggz> Jolla and it will only make Sailfish more known.
07:06:28 <rainemak> #info <piggz> (the caveats are that i feel the Pro version of the sailfish os port is not as stable/usable as for the regular
07:06:31 <rainemak> #info <piggz> pinephone just yet, so i would like this to be made clear so as to not disappoint users, and hopefully it would bring
07:06:34 <rainemak> #info <piggz> in more developers)
07:06:38 <rainemak> ​#info <piggz> It would be greatly appreciated if you could reach out to me before the meeting, so that the details can be worked out
07:06:41 <rainemak> #info <piggz> with Pine. If you have any conditions, then I would of-course be more than happy to do my best. (for example, DanctNix
07:06:44 <rainemak> #info <piggz> which is based on arch, does not use the name Arch so to be less associated with that project, would you want to not
07:06:47 <rainemak> #info <piggz> use the Sailfish name?)
07:07:04 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> First, it’s great to hear that you were approached by Pine64 regarding your Pine Phone Pro port. There shouldn’t be
07:07:04 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> major roadblocks in this. However, there are different aspects that we should clarify & check. We shared some details &
07:07:04 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> questions to piggz.
07:07:14 <rainemak> #info Please do not mix that webshop that sells pre-installed free editions of SailfishOS to this. As far as I know, it is the free version Sailfish OS by Jolla that is produced in Sailfish X program not a community edition.
07:08:38 <rainemak> Something happen to wrapping... Hopefully can parse above
07:08:55 <flypig_> It makes sense here :)
07:09:27 <ExTechOp> First time I hear of that webshop, I assume it has nothing to do with Jolla?
07:09:50 <rainemak> Correct, it has nothing to do with Jolla
07:11:54 <piggz> #info piggz community ... seems matrix isnt bridging here :)
07:12:08 <piggz> rainemak: you asked about editing the About dialog ... how possible is that?
07:13:13 <rainemak> Hopefully I see latest image today on Pine Phone Pro
07:13:36 <rainemak> Then I can say about the actual details regarding the content
07:13:44 <piggz> great ... dont get too excited, ood its not great, but with a zypper dup it should work better ...
07:13:56 <piggz> i also have a custom ofono build that works better than the default i think
07:14:36 <piggz> So, the answer is there are no major objections, hopefully some tweaks and its possible to have consent?
07:14:50 <rainemak> Settings -> About product is relatively simple to customize from kickstart as needed
07:15:03 <piggz> ah, i didnt know that
07:15:13 <piggz> you could pR the kickstart :)
07:15:31 <rainemak> I can try to share you some pointers later
07:15:36 <piggz> gr8
07:16:06 <rainemak> piggz, "So, the answer is there are no major objections, hopefully some tweaks and its possible to have consent?" => Yes, that sounds about right
07:17:09 <rainemak> is this covered? are we good to move on?
07:17:12 <flypig_> This is amazing!
07:17:18 <piggz> superb ... i look forward to helping out when you get your pro ... there are several things you need to know about bootloaders and firmware to get the best experience
07:17:25 <piggz> flypig_: yes :)
07:17:31 <flypig_> Three cheers for piggz and Jolla :D
07:17:59 <rainemak> #topic regarding keyboard input issues in android apps (6 mins -- asked by thigg)
07:18:12 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/aliendalvik-aas-typing-characters-after-deleting-typed-text-often-inserts-the-deleted-string/14046
07:18:22 <rainemak> #info <thigg> there are two issues with keyboard input in some android apps. One is that deleted text appears again and the other
07:18:22 <rainemak> #info <thigg> that after placing the cursor added text sometimes is inserted at the previous location. It looks like the issue is
07:18:22 <rainemak> #info <thigg> around for quite a while and I’d like to help to find the cause. Can you describe how the input is actually passed and
07:18:23 <rainemak> #info <thigg> if we have a chance from the community side to investigate into this?
07:18:57 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> We don’t know exactly what the issue is, more investigation needed. We have seen the issue, but this hasn’t been a
07:18:57 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> priority. There are some stub Android methods in our “RemoteKeyboard” component and those might be relevant.
07:19:22 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Easiest to help via the forum ticket.
07:20:48 <ExTechOp> (I've also occasionally seen this, and I've tried to understand when it happens, to no avail -- it only seems to happen when it is the most inconvenient, so I'm suspecting AI intereference)
07:21:25 <rainemak> ExTechOp, there are quite good steps reported in the forum ticket
07:21:40 <rainemak> and yes it's annoying
07:22:47 <rainemak> We have a lot of topics still. If no objects, let's move
07:23:02 <rainemak> #topic Updating the Linux kernel headers (10 mins -- asked by flypig)
07:23:12 <rainemak> #info <flypig> Currently the Sailfish OS repos contain kernel headers for Linux 3.18. Is there scope for them to be updated in future
07:23:13 <rainemak> #info <flypig> releases? The motivation is that Gecko ESR 91 requires the linux/membarrier.h header (specifically __NR_membarrier)
07:23:13 <rainemak> #info <flypig> which was introduced in kernel headers 4.3. Gecko checks at runtime that the capabilities are available before using
07:23:13 <rainemak> #info <flypig> them. With thanks to @mal for his help with this.
07:23:14 <rainemak> #info <flypig> Related links:
07:23:16 <rainemak> #info <flypig> 1. Upstream change that makes this useful: D88395 Bug 1661016: aarch64: Invalidate icache when compiling on a background thread; r=nbp,lth
07:23:19 <rainemak> #link https://phabricator.services.mozilla.com/D88395
07:23:21 <rainemak> #info <flypig> 2. Sailfish kernel-headers repo: GitHub - sailfishos/kernel-headers
07:23:23 <rainemak> #link https://github.com/sailfishos/kernel-headers/
07:23:25 <rainemak> #info <flypig> 3. Sailfish pre-build linux 5.4 headers: Show nemo:devel:hw:native-common / kernel-headers - SailfishOS Open Build Service
07:23:28 <rainemak> #link https://build.sailfishos.org/package/show/nemo:devel:hw:native-common/kernel-headers
07:23:30 <rainemak> #info <flypig> 4. Comparing Linux headers: __NR_membarrier identifier - Linux source code (v4.3) - Bootlin
07:23:33 <rainemak> #link https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/v4.3/C/ident/__NR_membarrier
07:23:37 <rainemak> #info <flypig> 5. Background: Gecko-dev Diary
07:23:39 <rainemak> #link https://www.flypig.co.uk/gecko?&list_id=855&list=gecko
07:23:43 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Thank you for raising this. Something that we should look at some point.
07:24:21 <rainemak> Certainly, we should help you flypig_ regarding esr91 efforts
07:24:46 <flypig_> Thanks; regarding the headers, mal has already been a big help. It's not a blocker, but I wanted to flag it anyway.
07:25:21 <flypig_> And in fact, I've had lots of help from all over the place (inside and outside Jolla). And I really appreciate it!
07:25:36 <rainemak> Nice to hear!
07:25:47 <flypig_> Are there still devices running a <4.3 kernel?
07:27:10 <rainemak> Supported ones, I don't think so. Jolla Phone required older kernel header.
07:27:23 <flypig_> My X10 III is on 4.19.248.
07:27:35 <flypig_> I guess some community builds may be then.
07:27:48 <rainemak> That's very plausible
07:28:44 <rainemak> flypig_, you find with the answer? I'm trying to speed up a bit :-)
07:28:50 <flypig_> Okay; well, thanks for the answer, it'd be great if Jolla finds time to look at this although I understand if not. I'm happy for us to move on :)
07:28:53 <rainemak> s/find/fine/
07:29:02 <flypig_> Thank you, yes! All fine!
07:29:13 <rainemak> #topic Stabilizing TextArea.focusOutBehavior (5 mins -- asked by direc85)
07:29:22 <rainemak> #info <direc85> Jolla Messages keeps the keyboard open after the message has been sent, so sending the next message is easier.
07:29:22 <rainemak> #info <direc85> Whisperfish, a Signal client, would have benefited from the same behaviour from the start, but we couldn’t figure out
07:29:22 <rainemak> #info <direc85> how it was done. Eventually I stumbled upon the solution while looking for something else – see Whisperfish issue 489
07:29:23 <rainemak> #info <direc85> 1 – it turned out to be the TextArea.focusOutBehavior, which is an undocumented property, inherited from the private
07:29:26 <rainemak> #info <direc85> side. Could Jolla stabilize the property and document it so other applications could easier replicate the same
07:29:29 <rainemak> #info <direc85> behaviour?
07:29:31 <rainemak> #link https://gitlab.com/whisperfish/whisperfish/-/merge_requests/489
07:29:37 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Example apps sailfishsilica-qt5-demos and sailfishsilica-qt5-demos-private are good examples that could be used to
07:29:38 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> check how components can be used. Whether a property is inherited from the private TextBase or not is not a problem.
07:29:41 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> TextField documentation already have properties and methods documented that are coming from the TextBase. Your
07:29:44 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> suggestion to document focusOutBehavior sounds like a good idea.
07:30:43 <flypig_> Are the docs generated from docstrings in a closed repo?
07:30:58 <rainemak> yes and yes
07:31:11 <flypig_> Okay, so no scope for community to create a PR. Just checking.
07:31:12 <rainemak> there's actually follow up to this in next topic
07:31:37 <rainemak> direc85 couldn't participate I think we'll just move on
07:31:50 <rainemak> #topic Improving Silica documentation (10 mins -- asked by direc85)
07:31:59 <rainemak> #info <direc85> There are typos, mistakes and simply wrong information in the Silica documentation 1. Example: By documentation,
07:31:59 <rainemak> #info <direc85> PageStack.push() takes var page, PageStack.replace() takes int page and PageStack.nextPage() takes Page page – by
07:31:59 <rainemak> #info <direc85> experiments I can tell they all take Page type variable. I mentioned about this in the #sailfishos channel some
07:31:59 <rainemak> #info <direc85> months ago, but it was not reacted to, even there was now active conversation after that for some time (if my memory
07:32:02 <rainemak> #info <direc85> serves me right). Another example of vast amount of missing data is list of inherited methods and properties. As Qt
07:32:07 <rainemak> #info <direc85> documentation website defaults to Qt 6, manually jumping to version Qt 5.6 needs to be done often, so having even the
07:32:10 <rainemak> #info <direc85> Qt part of the list would be most helpful. Could the current documentation be opened to pull requests so community
07:32:13 <rainemak> #info <direc85> could contribute to it? If not, what is the preferred way for the community to contribute?
07:32:40 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Thank you for your input. There’s clearly an error in the PageStack.replace() – let's fix that. The PageStack.nextPage
07:32:40 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> is not similar to PageStack.push nor to PageStack.replace as PageStack.nextPage is a lookup function that returns the
07:32:40 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> page that follows fromPage argument (instance of a Page). Whereas both push and replace allow lazy page creation by
07:32:40 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> passing Page Component or by passing url (usually used along with Qt.resolvedUrl). In addition, both push and replace
07:32:43 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> accept a Page instance or an array of Page instances. This is the reason why these two take var argument.
07:33:11 <rainemak> #info <Jolla>
07:33:11 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Hint: from application start up and Page creation point of view many times best approach is to use resolved url as it
07:33:11 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> defers both component compilation and object creation at the point when a page is really needed. Thus, avoids
07:33:11 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> unnecessary compilation and instance creations. Instantiating Page instances ahead of time is not usually good idea.
07:33:12 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> You can accidentally write your QML so Pages are created too early for example by declaring needed Pages somewhere
07:33:15 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> without wrapping them to Components.
07:33:17 <rainemak> #info <Jolla>
07:33:45 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Documenting Qt properties and methods as part of Silica documentation is tricky. Certainly, we understand and see your
07:33:45 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> point that it would be helpful to have.
07:33:45 <rainemak> #info <Jolla>
07:33:57 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> We haven’t really considered opening only documentation parts of closed repositories as that’s currently part of the
07:33:57 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> same repository as the source codes.
07:34:14 <rainemak> #info <Jolla>
07:34:14 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Preferred way for community to contribute would be raising API documentation issues in the forum. We can consider
07:34:14 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> creating a separate category for API documentation discussion if there would be plenty of discussion. If that is
07:34:14 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> preferred approach, please let us know.
07:36:29 <rainemak> Comments?
07:36:34 <flypig_> I suppose this relates to all the documentation under https://sailfishos.org/develop/docs/ (not just Silica docs)?
07:36:48 <rainemak> not all but most
07:37:06 <flypig_> Okay; some is in open repos.
07:37:13 <rainemak> correct
07:37:35 <rainemak> but mangling Qt docs and/link to the Sailfish docs is tricky for them all
07:37:46 <rainemak> and/or links
07:38:21 <flypig_> What are the alternatives (I'm not saying these are *good* alternatives): 1) Put the code in open repos with a closed license. 2) Put the html in a repo for people to create PRs against which Jolla could then transfer. 3)....?
07:39:39 <rainemak> Putting html to a repo doesn't sound right
07:40:10 <rainemak> but having qdoc files in open could maybe work
07:40:10 <flypig_> Is there a way to output just the docstring source? It sounds messy.
07:40:15 <nephros_> You can use qdoc config to link to the qt doc archive pages for 5.6  but it will require modificatiin of the source qdoc comments.
07:41:23 <rainemak> nephros_, linking is different that I'm thinking... I thinking more about bundling.
07:42:16 <rainemak> there's clearly some food for thoughts - let's continue this discussion at the end if we have time left
07:42:35 <rainemak> #topic Open PR discussion (10 mins -- asked by jolla / flypig)
07:42:35 <flypig_> Just to say, if there is a way to get the qdoc files out, that would be really neat.
07:43:07 <rainemak> #info <flypig> These are all Gecko ESR 91 related. These aren’t stuck, I’m just raising them in case there’s any need to discuss them.
07:43:07 <rainemak> #info <flypig>
07:43:07 <rainemak> #info <flypig> ICU 70.1 (thanks for looking at this already)
07:43:07 <rainemak> #info <flypig> Open PR URL: Update to version 70.1 by llewelld · Pull Request #1 · sailfishos/icu · GitHub 1
07:43:08 <rainemak> #link https://github.com/sailfishos/icu/pull/1
07:43:18 <rainemak> #info This was merged already.
07:43:21 <flypig_> Hooray!
07:43:34 <rainemak> #info <flypig / direc85> GCC backported patch (special thanks to direct85 for this)
07:43:34 <rainemak> #info <flypig / direc85>
07:43:34 <rainemak> #info <flypig / direc85>
07:43:34 <rainemak> #info <flypig / direc85> Open PR URL: [gcc] Prefer bsl/bit/bif for copysignf. (backport GCC-8) by direc85 · Pull Request #4 · sailfishos/gcc · GitHub
07:43:34 <rainemak> #link https://github.com/sailfishos/gcc/pull/4
07:43:37 <rainemak> #info <flypig / direc85> Related thread: Compiling GCC for SDK
07:43:39 <rainemak> #info <flypig / direc85> Query: Is there a way to get the aarch64 build on OBS to complete so I can test this; alternatively is there
07:43:42 <rainemak> #info <flypig / direc85> a way to do ‘dumb’ builds using the local SDK?
07:44:42 <rainemak> I think simplest probably would be community OBS but we could also give a spin
07:44:53 <flypig_> As it happens the latest changes built for aarch64 on OBS last night, so I can now test this on the gecko source. I don't think it makes sense to merge it before that.
07:44:56 <flypig_> https://build.sailfishos.org/package/show/home:flypig:gecko-esr91/gcc
07:45:43 <flypig_> A massive thanks to mal, Keto and direc85 for all their work and help with this.
07:46:15 <rainemak> Indeed! Great effort!
07:46:27 <rainemak> #info <flypig> cbindgen 0.19.0 (thanks for all the useful feedback on this as well)
07:46:27 <rainemak> #info <flypig> Open PR URL: [packaging] Update to version 0.19.0 by llewelld · Pull Request #7 · sailfishos/rust-cbindgen · GitHub 1
07:46:27 <rainemak> #info <flypig> https://github.com/sailfishos/rust-cbindgen/pull/7
07:46:27 <rainemak> #info This was merged as well.
07:46:32 <flypig_> Hooray!
07:46:35 <piggz> re gcc ... does that include c++20 support?
07:46:55 <flypig_> It's not an update to gcc I'm afraid, it's just backporting of a patch to fix a specific crash bug.
07:47:13 <piggz> ah ok .. im wondering if/when c++20 will be on sfos
07:47:21 <rainemak> do you want to hear nice tiny little funny thingie?
07:47:24 <piggz> just becuase i happen to have been asked this morning by some kde devs!
07:47:32 <piggz> rainemak: sure
07:47:40 <flypig_> Absolutely :)
07:48:22 <rainemak> after icu & rust-cbindgen got integrated your devel xulrunner build finally successfully for armv7hl
07:48:37 <rainemak> s/your/our/
07:49:39 <rainemak> xulrunner has been long time borken for armv7hl and we haven't figured why it was borken.
07:49:51 <flypig_> Oh, wow. With this new info, do you know why it was?
07:49:58 <rainemak> my bets are on rust-cbindgen and something changed in the generated code
07:50:11 <flypig_> That's a bit crazy!
07:50:23 <abr> that's great news!
07:50:57 <rainemak> yeap
07:51:05 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Any other open PRs to discuss?
07:51:07 <flypig_> xulrunner is a carefully balanced tower, it seems!
07:51:27 <rainemak> moving on
07:51:29 <rainemak> #topic Untracked bug reports (5 min -- asked by pherjung)
07:51:38 <rainemak> #info <pherjung> Untracked bug reports
07:51:38 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-14th-september-2023/16646/3
07:51:45 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> The Community Bug Coordination Team have done a superb job once again this fortnight.
07:51:45 <rainemak> #info <Jolla>
07:51:45 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> As a result of their work, we now have:
07:51:45 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> 9 high quality bug reports now recorded internally and tagged as "tracked".
07:51:45 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> 4 bug reports marked as "pending" more info.
07:51:46 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> 3 bug reports tagged as "fixed".
07:51:48 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> 1 marked as duplicates and closed.
07:52:16 <flypig_> Four more bugs down! Great stuff.
07:52:39 <rainemak> jpwalden checked and flagged both https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-14th-september-2023/16646/3 and https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-17th-august-2023/15962/2
07:53:13 <rainemak> Much appreciated
07:53:21 <flypig_> Great work all!
07:53:29 <rainemak> Let's move on to the general discussion.
07:53:38 <rainemak> #topic General discussion (5 min)
07:54:29 <piggz> rainemak: this comment from vige says gcc update is tracked internally, can i infer that means its planned to be updated? https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/gcc-update-from-gcc-8/15144/10?u=piggz
07:55:20 <rainemak> piggz, it's tracked but also a big effort
07:55:30 <flypig_> I just want to put on record thanks to Thaodan and you rainemak as well, along with mal, Keto and direc85[m] for the help with those PRs. Sorry if I forgot anyone.
07:55:58 <piggz> id also like to say thanks for accepting the PPP proposal
07:56:30 <flypig_> piggz, do you have a timeline for when it will happen?
07:56:30 <rainemak> piggz, I'll try to get back to you in a week with more details
07:56:35 <abr> can't wait to see a ppp with a fish printed on the back :)
07:57:01 <piggz> abr: not sure they will be printing cusot cases :(
07:57:05 <piggz> s/custom
07:57:33 <piggz> that was the original PP community editions ... this i think will just be a PPP preloaded
07:57:38 <rainemak> I just want to say thank you all regarding the meeting input
07:57:41 <abr> ah ok. it'll have to be a sticker then...
07:58:08 <rainemak> we're running out of time
07:58:15 <rainemak> let's schedule next meeting
07:58:19 <flypig_> Thanks for all the answers rainemak.
07:58:32 <rainemak> #topic Next meeting time and date (2 min)
07:58:32 <rainemak> Proposing Thursday 28th September at 07:00am UTC.
07:58:45 <ExTechOp> Works4me.
07:59:11 <flypig_> No clock changes; no holidays; looks good :D
07:59:21 <rainemak> :D
07:59:33 <rainemak> #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 28th September 2023 at 07:00am UTC: 2023-09-28T0700Z
07:59:47 <rainemak> Thank you all!
07:59:49 <ExTechOp> Thank you, everybody!
07:59:51 <piggz> thx
07:59:51 <flypig_> Thank you!
08:00:10 <rainemak> #endmeeting