07:00:06 <rainemak> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 28th Sep 2023
07:00:06 <sailbot> Meeting started Thu Sep 28 07:00:06 2023 UTC. The chair is rainemak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
07:00:06 <sailbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
07:00:15 <rainemak> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:
07:00:20 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-28th-september-2023/16726
07:00:26 <rainemak> I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive.
07:00:32 <rainemak> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info
07:01:22 <rainemak> #info Raine Mäkeläinen, sailor @ Jolla, chairperson today
07:01:33 <ExTechOp> #info Otto Mäkelä, community
07:01:54 <poetaster> #info @poetaster, Mark Washeim, community
07:02:15 <Crabster> #info Crabster - lurker
07:02:32 <rainemak> poetaster, thank you for your topic
07:03:57 <dcaliste> #info Damien Caliste, community
07:04:02 <poetaster> rainemak, no thanks needed!
07:05:11 <rainemak> hopefully thigg is able to join as he raised a good topic as well
07:05:29 <rainemak> let's start with 1st topic
07:05:29 <poetaster> true!
07:05:41 <rainemak> #topic Notification popups in lipstick (10mins -- asked by thigg)
07:05:52 <rainemak> #info <thigg> Sometimes (especially when using android apps)
07:05:52 <rainemak> #info <thigg> notifications are hiding other ui elements (forum: Notifications hiding buttons).
07:05:52 <rainemak> #info <thigg> My idea to handle this was to mute notifications for some time (30s) if the
07:05:52 <rainemak> #info <thigg> notification is swiped to the left. After 30s a notification is shown that
07:05:52 <rainemak> #info <thigg> notifications are enabled again and the notifications from the queue are shown.
07:05:54 <rainemak> #info <thigg>
07:05:55 <rainemak> #info <thigg> This looks quite simple to implement at https://github.com/nemomobile-ux/lipstick/blob/e6e336f4c7e190f8c24802cc1337efa39be7bf93/src/notifications/notificationpreviewpresenter.cpp#L88
07:05:58 <rainemak> #info <thigg> by returning early if the current time is <= the time in a muted_until value
07:06:00 <rainemak> #info <thigg> and patching the notification popup Notifications hiding buttons - #6 by thigg.
07:06:02 <rainemak> #info <thigg> When the notifications are muted, a timer is started which fires a “notifications
07:06:05 <rainemak> #info <thigg> enabled” notification after the mute period and this would trigger the appearance
07:06:10 <rainemak> #info <thigg> of all other notifications. And probably a dbus interface for lipstick to set muted_until
07:06:13 <rainemak> #info <thigg> from the popup.
07:06:15 <rainemak> #info <thigg>
07:06:17 <rainemak> #info <thigg> Because modifications to lipstick are hard (impossible?) to deliver to users,
07:06:19 <rainemak> #info <thigg> collaboration with jolla would be helpful. At least the dbus- interface to set
07:06:21 <rainemak> #info <thigg> muted_until would have to be done by jolla.
07:06:23 <rainemak> #info <thigg>
07:06:25 <rainemak> #info <thigg> I’d like to discuss the problem, this proposed workaround and if jolla is willing to
07:06:28 <rainemak> #info <thigg> collaborate on this (or even do it on their own)
07:06:30 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/notifications-hiding-buttons/16717
07:06:32 <rainemak> #link https://github.com/nemomobile-ux/lipstick/blob/e6e336f4c7e190f8c24802cc1337efa39be7bf93/src/notifications/notificationpreviewpresenter.cpp#L88
07:06:57 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Thank you thigg! This is a very good and interesting topic. This is indeed
07:06:57 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> something occasionally annoys users. One idea that was brought up could be
07:06:57 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> using similar adaptive mechanisms that is used for display dimming. For example,
07:06:57 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> it could be so that first notification that is dismissed by swipe could suppress
07:06:57 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> notification queue for 5sec, next new notification that is dismissed by swipe
07:06:58 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> would prolong suppress to 10sec, and so on.
07:07:05 <rainemak> #info <Jolla>
07:07:05 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Related to this, one problematic app category is navigation apps as those might start
07:07:05 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> showing notifications from your route and those might be triggered too frequently.
07:07:10 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> In this kind of scenario, one might want to have notification suppressed completely
07:07:13 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> from the app that spams notifications. Worth exploring whether this kind of action
07:07:16 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> could be visible by default.
07:09:01 <rainemak> I think there are multitude of aspects that should/could be tackled.
07:09:59 <poetaster> tooter is still somewhat broken where notifications are concerned, but it's good at spamming the notifications queue. It's a bit embarrasing.
07:10:22 <rainemak> What are most cumbersome scenarios when you feel this should be working differently
07:10:23 <rainemak> ?
07:12:09 <poetaster> rainemak, what I was getting at is that tooter misbehaves and the consequence is that the use get's a flood of notifications.
07:12:49 <rainemak> I'd vote for easy way to suppress notification completely from an app that send them
07:13:07 <poetaster> rainemak, yes.
07:13:58 <rainemak> not queuing them at all just completely ignoring
07:14:05 <rainemak> for some time
07:14:07 <dcaliste> rainemak, do you think that implementing something like the dimming logic can be done in the OS parts only ?
07:14:31 <dcaliste> Does it require some changes in jolla-lipstick, or only in lipstick itself ?
07:15:23 <rainemak> MCE implements that adaptive dimming.
07:16:50 <rainemak> dcaliste, gut feeling is that this needs to be orchestrated between lipstick-jolla-home and lipstick
07:17:50 <rainemak> we run out of time but as we one topic left I extend this one by 5mins
07:18:05 <rainemak> so 2mins left :-)
07:18:21 <rainemak> we have one topic left ^
07:18:30 <dcaliste> ok, so something that community can hardly complete. What about providing a plan for lipstick-jolla-home and discuss it in an issue in lipstick or in a meeting ?
07:18:55 <rainemak> opening an issue in lipstick sounds like good plan
07:19:26 <rainemak> dcaliste, would you like to create one?
07:20:08 <dcaliste> Not necessary myself, maybe thigg who thought more about the issue may see it as a way forward.
07:21:12 <rainemak> certainly, that makes sense
07:21:18 <rainemak> thank you
07:21:24 <rainemak> It's time to move on
07:21:32 <rainemak> #topic Guidance about maintaining an HADK-faq wiki page (5mins -- asked by poetaster)
07:21:32 <rainemak> #info <poetaster> In the main, a number of porters have mentioned the difficulty in
07:21:32 <rainemak> #info <poetaster> working on the HADK docs. And ad-hoc etherpad is the present hacking
07:21:32 <rainemak> #info <poetaster> approach. To get the more structured I created HADK | SailfishOS community
07:21:32 <rainemak> #info <poetaster> wiki 4 This contains a dump of the etherpad and a first transfer of the faq
07:21:34 <rainemak> #info <poetaster> PDF to a wiki page. This is far from ideal. Is source for the pdf available
07:21:35 <rainemak> #info <poetaster> or is it a classic ‘word like’ document?
07:21:37 <rainemak> #link https://sailfishos.wiki/books/hadk
07:22:03 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Thank you for asking. Which ad-hoc etherpad you’re referring to? We moved
07:22:04 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> http://piratepad.net/hadk-faq-v2 content to https://github.com/mer-hybris/hadk-faq
07:22:04 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> some time back already. Intention there is that hadk-faq would be used wiki like
07:22:04 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> and people would create PRs to it.
07:22:04 <rainemak> #info <Jolla>
07:22:05 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> HADK is not a word document rather a set of rst from which pdf is generated.
07:23:09 <poetaster> The etherpad I'm refering to is: https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/hadk-hot which one of the porters said was 'go to' currently.
07:23:51 <poetaster> ok, cool I know the origins now. that helps a lot.
07:24:34 <rainemak> after piratepad was closed we created that https://github.com/mer-hybris/hadk-faq
07:25:29 <rainemak> mal would probably recall time frame when above happened but maybe he's not around
07:26:04 <flypig> #info David Llewellyn-Jones, community, latecomer
07:26:10 <rainemak> :)
07:26:26 <poetaster> rainemak, but that is not the source of: https://docs.sailfishos.org/Develop/HADK/SailfishOS-HardwareAdaptationDevelopmentKit-
07:26:41 <rainemak> flypig, lurker :-) and /me joking
07:27:14 <flypig> I've been lurking for a bit; there's never a good time to throw in a random #info :)
07:27:31 <rainemak> poetaster, nope. That was created to complement the pdf
07:28:00 <poetaster> rainemak, ok, clear. thanks.
07:28:26 <rainemak> and actually hadk-faq has uses similar rst format as hadk pdf itself
07:28:35 <rainemak> alright, thank you
07:28:46 <rainemak> Let's move on
07:28:50 <flypig> Just to be clear: are the rst for the pdf public?
07:29:36 <rainemak> hadk repository itself is closed but is rst based
07:29:43 <flypig> Got it; thanks!
07:30:01 <rainemak> #topic Open PR discussion (10 mins -- asked by jolla)
07:30:08 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Any other open PRs to discuss?
07:30:58 <flypig> Thanks for merging direc85's PR since the last meeting.
07:32:12 <rainemak> #link https://github.com/sailfishos/gcc/pull/4
07:32:44 <flypig> That's the one :) It worked nicely.
07:35:10 <dcaliste> Maybe still recent, but this one from attah : https://github.com/sailfishos/cairo/pull/3 ?
07:36:24 <dcaliste> Or this one from thigg in the documentation : https://github.com/sailfishos/docs.sailfishos.org/pull/377 ?
07:36:40 <flypig> It's nice that updating cairo allows a patch to be dropped.
07:36:44 <rainemak> we should build sailfish core against new cairo
07:37:04 <rainemak> just to be sure
07:38:23 <dcaliste> rainemak, indeed, good point for full rebuild and check. They have a stable API, so nothing should break, but just to be sure ;)
07:39:11 <rainemak> dcaliste, merged thigg's PR
07:39:28 <dcaliste> Thanks for him.
07:39:53 <flypig> Nice; this process really works :D
07:40:35 <rainemak> and this can be adhoc linking as well
07:41:44 <rainemak> #topic Untracked bug reports (5 min -- asked by pherjung)
07:41:53 <rainemak> #topic Untracked bug reports (5 min -- asked by pherjung)
07:41:53 <rainemak> #info <pherjung> Untracked bug reports
07:41:53 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-14th-september-2023/16646/3
07:41:53 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> The Community Bug Coordination Team have done a superb job once again this fortnight.
07:41:53 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> 10 high quality bugs reported. Most of them are/will be recorded internally.
07:41:55 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Tracker flags are missing from the forum.
07:44:15 <poetaster> what are Tracker flags?
07:44:58 <rainemak> tracked == tracker :-)
07:45:24 <poetaster> ah, got ya. from internal system to public forum.
07:45:44 <rainemak> in practice it means that there's a link in internal system to public forum
07:46:14 <rainemak> but those tracked flags are added manually
07:46:26 <rainemak> Let's move on to the general discussion.
07:46:31 <rainemak> #topic General discussion (5 min)
07:46:59 <rainemak> flypig, would you like to give an update regarding esr91 ?
07:47:04 <flypig> Oh, sure!
07:47:37 <rainemak> did yet read number 42
07:47:46 <flypig> The build has reached the linking stage (as of today it actually links in fact!). So it's getting there.
07:47:46 <rainemak> from diary
07:48:01 <ExTechOp> Once again, are there any news that can be shared about Jolla's funding and/or ownership status?
07:48:19 <rainemak> no comments
07:49:37 <rainemak> flypig, seems that you hit the linker... that's nice
07:51:10 <ExTechOp> rainemak :-(
07:51:22 <flypig> Sorry, I'm on a train, poor connectivity through the tunnels!
07:51:38 <poetaster> flaypig, 42 is a nice post ... non-virtual thunk espcially.
07:52:03 <flypig> This is the first time I heard about thunks!
07:52:08 <dcaliste> flypig, great achievement that you reach the creation of the library. A huge step forward.
07:52:29 <poetaster> flypig, me too!
07:52:37 <flypig> Thanks dcaliste. It won't work of course :)
07:52:45 <Nico> flypig: you are on a train, you should hear plenty of thunks :p
07:53:01 <flypig> Haha! That's true!
07:53:44 <flypig> I want to ask another quick question: would Jolla be interested in joining a Linux-on-Mobile stand at FOSDEM 2024? Or is this for a proper question at the next meeting?
07:54:11 <dcaliste> flypig, of course, but already very good. I'm finishing moving code in QMF from Qcop to QDBus. I've finished the compilation part. I'm not expecting it to work either !
07:54:38 <flypig> dcaliste, amazing! Can you post a link please?
07:54:58 <flypig> I don't know Qcop. Is it similar to QDBus?
07:55:01 <dcaliste> QMF thingies: https://codereview.qt-project.org/c/qt-labs/messagingframework/+/507382
07:55:30 <flypig> That looks like a lot of work.
07:55:49 <dcaliste> Qcop was the KDE (or Qt) initial implementation for IPC before Gnome reached Freedesktop first with DBus and then it was widely adopted.
07:55:51 <rainemak> I like the discussion around source code :-)
07:56:01 <flypig> https://codereview.qt-project.org/c/qt-labs/messagingframework/+/507382
07:56:05 <flypig> (for the minutes)
07:56:18 <rainemak> as discussion is on going, let's give 2mins more for this
07:56:30 <rainemak> scheduling next meeting doesn't take that long
07:56:44 <rainemak> #link https://codereview.qt-project.org/c/qt-labs/messagingframework/+/507382
07:57:26 <flypig> What will the change allow in practice dcaliste? An updated QMF on Sailfish?
07:57:51 <flypig> QMF = the underlying email system, right?
07:58:09 <rainemak> #info <dcaliste> Switching QCop to D-Bus for IPC ^
07:58:22 <rainemak> qt messaging framework
07:58:30 <poetaster> IPC is inter process or?
07:58:39 <dcaliste> Well, in practice, it is more a modernisation of the QMF code. And a slight reduction of its code base, now using Qt DBus implementation for inter process.
07:58:44 <rainemak> inter process communication
07:59:11 <dcaliste> Yes, IPC means inter-process communication and QMF stands for Qt Messagung Framework. It's the email daemon and library in Sailfish OS.
07:59:18 <rainemak> #topic Next meeting time and date (1 min)
07:59:18 <rainemak> Proposing Thursday 12th October at 07:00am UTC.
07:59:39 <flypig> Still before the clocks change.
07:59:47 <rainemak> yeap
07:59:50 <rainemak> #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 12th October 2023 at 07:00am UTC: 2023-10-12T0700Z
07:59:55 <rainemak> Thank you everyone for the meeting!
08:00:03 <ExTechOp> Thank you everyone!
08:00:08 <poetaster> Thanks everyone!
08:00:12 <flypig> Thanks rainemak, everyone!
08:00:13 <Crabster> thx!
08:00:22 <rainemak> #endmeeting