=============================================================================
#sailfishos-meeting: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 11th Jan 2024
=============================================================================


Meeting started by rainemak at 08:00:09 UTC. The full logs are available
at
https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2024/sailfishos-meeting.2024-01-11-08.00.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---------------
* Meeting information and agenda can be found here:  (rainemak,
  08:00:20)
* LINK:
  https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-11th-january-2024/17628
  (rainemak, 08:00:20)
* Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info
  (rainemak, 08:00:20)
  * Raine Mäkeläinen, sailor @ Jolla, chairperson today  (rainemak,
    08:00:39)
  * Ville Nummela - sailor@Jolla  (ViGe, 08:00:45)
  * Otto Mäkelä, community  (ExTechOp, 08:01:15)
  * nephros, Community  (nephros, 08:01:21)
  * communiy member  (LouisDK, 08:01:28)
  * Matias, community  (Matias, 08:01:33)
  * sebix - community  (sebix[m], 08:02:12)
  * David Llewellyn-Jones, Community  (flypig, 08:02:16)
  * Crabster - lurker  (Crabster, 08:02:38)

* XDG-Desktop-Portal specification: interesting for Sailfish OS?
  (10mins -- asked by nephros)  (rainemak, 08:05:05)
  * <Jolla> This is rather long question. Thus, let’s use original
    message from the forum  (rainemak, 08:05:17)
  * <nephros> Here's the question:  (rainemak, 08:05:17)
  * LINK:
    https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-11th-january-2024/17628/2
    (rainemak, 08:05:17)
  * <Jolla> Certainly, having common APIs is a good idea. More planning
    is  (rainemak, 08:05:59)
  * <Jolla> needed and putting down mentioned high-level guidance. We
    could  (rainemak, 08:05:59)
  * <Jolla> plan this on a separate forum post. Worth to analyse how
    much XDG  (rainemak, 08:05:59)
  * <Jolla> Desktop Portals could eventually help on mobile.  (rainemak,
    08:05:59)
  * API reference is extensive  (rainemak, 08:11:40)
  * LINK:
    https://flatpak.github.io/xdg-desktop-portal/docs/api-reference.html
    (rainemak, 08:11:41)
  * <flypig> XDG-Desktop-Portal would help with Sandboxing; porting; and
    just generally staying consistent with other distros. Does that
    sound about right?  (rainemak, 08:12:13)
  * <nephros> I think first step could be identifying where there is
    overlap of existing functionality and specification.  (rainemak,
    08:12:43)
  * <nephros> (and identifying which parts of the spec are not
    interesting to SFOS).  (rainemak, 08:13:02)
  * Presumably there could be a community-driven effort to implement
    something like the screenshot interface, to see how it might work?
    (rainemak, 08:15:22)

* Unlock via dbus (10mins -- asked by piggz)  (rainemak, 08:16:07)
  * <piggz> I made a fun little hack which allows a user to auto-unlock
    the  (rainemak, 08:16:21)
  * <piggz> phone if some configured BT device is connected (GitHub -
    piggz/  (rainemak, 08:16:21)
  * <piggz> harbour-smartunlock 3). Unfortunately it required a nasty
    hack in  (rainemak, 08:16:21)
  * <piggz> nemo-qml-plugin-devicelock to allow unlocking via dbus
    (GitHub -  (rainemak, 08:16:21)
  * <piggz> piggz/nemo-qml-plugin-devicelock at dbus-unlock), I can
    envisage a  (rainemak, 08:16:21)
  * <piggz> setup where the user enters the unlock code into some
    settings, and  (rainemak, 08:16:23)
  * <piggz> a dbus method that accepted the code could do the unlocking,
    which  (rainemak, 08:16:24)
  * <piggz> would be a bit better. This currently works great on the
    (rainemak, 08:16:26)
  * <piggz> PInephones, but not on my phone which uses
    sailfish-devicelock-fpd.  (rainemak, 08:16:28)
  * <piggz> That closed part does link to
    /usr/lib64/libnemodevicelock.so.0 and  (rainemak, 08:16:30)
  * <piggz> exposes the same dbus method, but replies with an Auth error
    before  (rainemak, 08:16:32)
  * <piggz> hitting the modified code in
    MceDeviceLockAdaptor::setState() I  (rainemak, 08:16:34)
  * <piggz> think this is because it statically links the library, so my
    (rainemak, 08:16:36)
  * <piggz> override in the dynamic lib doesnt work. Would you be
    interested in  (rainemak, 08:16:40)
  * <piggz> adding some real way to auto-unlock a device? What are your
    (rainemak, 08:16:42)
  * <piggz> thoughts on this? My use case is to not need to unlock the
    phone if  (rainemak, 08:16:44)
  * <piggz> it know im “close by” … eg, if connected to my watch or my
    car"  (rainemak, 08:16:46)
  * LINK: https://github.com/piggz/harbour-smartunlock   (rainemak,
    08:16:48)
  * LINK:
    https://github.com/piggz/nemo-qml-plugin-devicelock/tree/dbus-unlock
    (rainemak, 08:16:50)
  * <Jolla> Yes, there some interest to support community with something
    like  (rainemak, 08:16:52)
  * <Jolla> this. Your patch touches the same function we have modified
    in some  (rainemak, 08:16:54)
  * <Jolla> in-house hacks / demos – so it is one control point that
    could be  (rainemak, 08:16:56)
  * <Jolla> used. But it is also very much against the rule of thumb:
    anyone  (rainemak, 08:16:58)
  * <Jolla> can lock device, only device lock daemon can unlock it based
    on  (rainemak, 08:17:00)
  * <Jolla> something user does. Pure sw unlock easily becomes a
    backdoor. At  (rainemak, 08:17:02)
  * <Jolla> minimum such possibility should be limited to privileged
    processes  (rainemak, 08:17:04)
  * <Jolla> (our patch allows only root to unlock). Preferably user
    should  (rainemak, 08:17:06)
  * <Jolla> still be in control over something like this – say setting
    allowing  (rainemak, 08:17:10)
  * <Jolla> unlock over D-Bus , bit similarly to relaxing rules about
    package  (rainemak, 08:17:12)
  * <Jolla> installation works. Or limiting such functionality to named
    client  (rainemak, 08:17:14)
  * <Jolla> binaries. The smaller the hole the better but nevertheless
    there  (rainemak, 08:17:16)
  * <Jolla> will be a hole. Does the possibility for increased
    convenience for  (rainemak, 08:17:18)
  * <Jolla> some justify decrease in security for all?  (rainemak,
    08:17:20)
  * <Jolla>  (rainemak, 08:17:22)
  * <Jolla> Another way might be to implement this as authentication
    method  (rainemak, 08:17:24)
  * <Jolla> that device lock daemon would then use for unlocking (when
    user  (rainemak, 08:17:26)
  * <Jolla> wakes up the device). But given that daemon is closed source
    (rainemak, 08:17:28)
  * <Jolla> monolith, it would need to be implemented in-house for
    foreseeable  (rainemak, 08:17:30)
  * <Jolla> future. And we’d need ability to grade authentication
    methods  (rainemak, 08:17:32)
  * <Jolla> somehow to differentiate between “can be used for unlocking
    device”  (rainemak, 08:17:34)
  * <Jolla> and “can be used to identify user” and so on.  (rainemak,
    08:17:36)
  * <ExTechOp> It would be nice if the user could select how "hard"
    security they want/need on their devices, instead of having it
    hardwired by the operating system.  (rainemak, 08:22:19)

* Inclusion of FolderListModel in harbour (5mins -- asked by poetaster)
  (rainemak, 08:26:04)
  * <poetaster> I recently, somewhat belatedly, noticed that I had
    disqualified  (rainemak, 08:26:09)
  * <poetaster> a number of packages I already have in harbour by adding
    (rainemak, 08:26:09)
  * <poetaster> FolderListModel. (the labs one). Is it possible to allow
    this?  (rainemak, 08:26:09)
  * <poetaster> Or am I missing an equally convenient mechanism. I have
    my  (rainemak, 08:26:09)
  * <poetaster> ‘own’ python based version but that’s a hack.
    (rainemak, 08:26:09)
  * <Jolla> There isn’t really any good reason for not allowing
    (rainemak, 08:26:17)
  * <Jolla> Qt.labs.folderlistmodel in Harbour. In fact, we were already
    (rainemak, 08:26:17)
  * <Jolla> planning to allow it in 4.5.0 release, but unfortunately the
    change  (rainemak, 08:26:17)
  * <Jolla> just missed the window. It will be allowed when the next
    Sailfish  (rainemak, 08:26:17)
  * <Jolla> OS release comes out.  (rainemak, 08:26:18)

* AAS System Webview (5mins -- asked by Matias)  (rainemak, 08:27:43)
  * <Matias> SFOS AAS comes with Android System Webview version 83 which
    is 3.5  (rainemak, 08:27:55)
  * <Matias> years old by now. This causes certain banking apps and
    potentially  (rainemak, 08:27:55)
  * <Matias> other Android applications that rely on a more recent
    version of  (rainemak, 08:27:55)
  * <Matias> webview to stop working and it is also a bit of a security
    risk.  (rainemak, 08:27:55)
  * <Matias> Installing and activating a different webview
    implementation  (rainemak, 08:27:55)
  * <Matias> requires superuser rights (infeasible) or signature
    spoofing  (rainemak, 08:27:55)
  * <Matias> (which nobody seems to have tried in the context of webview
    yet).  (rainemak, 08:27:57)
  * <Matias> With the reorganization over I was hoping someone could
    shed some  (rainemak, 08:27:59)
  * <Matias> light on this.  (rainemak, 08:28:01)
  * <Matias>  (rainemak, 08:28:03)
  * <Matias> So, is there an update for AAS/Android System Webview
    somewhere  (rainemak, 08:28:05)
  * <Matias> down the pipeline?  (rainemak, 08:28:09)
  * <Matias>  (rainemak, 08:28:11)
  * <Matias> Links/references:  (rainemak, 08:28:13)
  * <Matias>  (rainemak, 08:28:15)
  * <Matias> 1. Rabobank app stopped working  (rainemak, 08:28:17)
  * LINK:
    https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/rabobank-app-stopped-working/2898
    (rainemak, 08:28:19)
  * <Matias> 2. Old Android WebView (74.x) --> update needed, ideas?
    (rainemak, 08:28:21)
  * LINK:
    https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/old-android-webview-74-x-update-needed-ideas/13465
    (rainemak, 08:28:23)
  * <Matias> 3. Make updating Android (System)Webview possible 2
    (rainemak, 08:28:25)
  * LINK:
    https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/make-updating-android-system-webview-possible/15116
    (rainemak, 08:28:27)
  * <Matias> 4. GeckoView instead of Android System WebView · Issue #167
    · mozilla/geckoview · GitHub 1  (rainemak, 08:28:29)
  * LINK:
    https://github.com/mozilla/geckoview/issues/167#issuecomment-1031423692
    (rainemak, 08:28:32)
  * <Jolla> We are using Webview from current Android version and it is
    updated  (rainemak, 08:28:34)
  * <Jolla> always when we update AppSupport Android base version. We
    have  (rainemak, 08:28:36)
  * <Jolla> AppSupport update for next Android version in pipeline but
    not yet  (rainemak, 08:28:40)
  * <Jolla> sure when can we release that out.  (rainemak, 08:28:42)
  * <Matias>  Would it be possible to whitelist other webviews in the
    system image to allow the user to choose other ones if they so
    desire? Just an idea.  (rainemak, 08:30:51)

* Mobile data in Italy with Xperia 10 III not working (4.5.0.24) (5mins
  -- asked by Valorsoguerriero97)  (rainemak, 08:32:23)
  * <Valorsoguerriero97> Mobile data not working under WINDTRE (ITALY)
    on 10  (rainemak, 08:32:33)
  * <Valorsoguerriero97> III. Same APN setting on my 10 works ok. Not
    here. I  (rainemak, 08:32:33)
  * <Valorsoguerriero97> can only call and receive sms… not mobile data.
    What  (rainemak, 08:32:33)
  * <Valorsoguerriero97> about this bug? Can you give me an estimated
    time for  (rainemak, 08:32:33)
  * <Valorsoguerriero97> resolution?  (rainemak, 08:32:33)
  * <Jolla> You replied to the forum already with a solution. Good that
    this got sorted out.  (rainemak, 08:32:45)
  * <Jolla> Summary: Ask the operator to disable VoLTE on your
    contract/line.  (rainemak, 08:32:46)
  * LINK:
    https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/xperia-10-iii-no-mobile-data/17711/19
    (rainemak, 08:32:46)

* Jolla community dinner @ FOSDEM '24 (10mins -- asked by Louis)
  (rainemak, 08:34:39)
  * <Louis> There has been a Jolla community dinner after FOSDEM on
    Saturday in  (rainemak, 08:34:44)
  * <Louis> the previous years at non-COVID times. I personally miss the
    (rainemak, 08:34:45)
  * <Louis> Moroccan restaurant La Kasbah (the host at 2019 and 2020) as
    I  (rainemak, 08:34:45)
  * <Louis> found it quite suited? Anyone from Jolla up for the planning
    or  (rainemak, 08:34:45)
  * <Louis> should it be done by time community. Also if anyone have
    better  (rainemak, 08:34:45)
  * <Louis> suggestions I’m open for it.  (rainemak, 08:34:45)
  * <Jolla> We’re thinking that this would be more like Community event
    this  (rainemak, 08:35:12)
  * <Jolla> time. That said, it’s under planning. We’re still checking
    suitable  (rainemak, 08:35:13)
  * <Jolla> place, but it should be such that it encourages to discuss
    and serves  (rainemak, 08:35:13)
  * <Jolla> food. Central location it’ll be and likely scheduled to
    Saturday  (rainemak, 08:35:13)
  * <Jolla> 7:00 PM giving everybody enough time to move from FOSDEM
    venue.  (rainemak, 08:35:13)
  * <Jolla>  (rainemak, 08:35:13)
  * <Jolla> There’s also a forum topic about the dinner but no post yet
    (rainemak, 08:35:15)
  * <Jolla> regarding this Community event.  (rainemak, 08:35:17)
  * <Jolla>  (rainemak, 08:35:19)
  * LINK:
    https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/any-plans-regarding-fosdem-2024-dinner/17632/5
    (rainemak, 08:35:21)

* Jollas future plans regarding Alien Dalvik  (10mins -- asked by Louis)
  (rainemak, 08:41:27)
  * <Louis> What is the situation regarding Jolla and Alien Dalvik. Does
    Jolla  (rainemak, 08:41:30)
  * <Louis> have “enough rights” to expand the development and offering
    of  (rainemak, 08:41:30)
  * <Louis> Alien Dalvik to eg. community ports? (Eg. sell it under an
    “as-is”  (rainemak, 08:41:31)
  * <Louis> agreement without any official support from Jolla)
    (rainemak, 08:41:31)
  * <Jolla> Let’s correct the name first, it’s not Alien Dalvik but
    Android  (rainemak, 08:41:42)
  * <Jolla> AppSupport. Not quite sure what you trying to ask with
    “enough  (rainemak, 08:41:42)
  * <Jolla> rights” but yes, we have all rights to the AppSupport. This
    has  (rainemak, 08:41:42)
  * <Jolla> been discussed on several occasions in the past, see links
    below.  (rainemak, 08:41:42)
  * <Jolla> Proposed as-is is likely not a good idea with current
    Sailfish X  (rainemak, 08:41:42)
  * <Jolla> pricing model.  (rainemak, 08:41:43)
  * <Jolla>  (rainemak, 08:41:45)
  * <Jolla> It's worth noting that Android AppSupport for community
    ports is  (rainemak, 08:41:47)
  * <Jolla> more than just providing the relevant packages. No need to
    repeat  (rainemak, 08:41:49)
  * <Jolla> answers again, please check “Ability to buy/enable Android
    (rainemak, 08:41:51)
  * <Jolla> AppSupport for community ports” topic from 2023-02-16 log
    and  (rainemak, 08:41:53)
  * <Jolla> “Standalone AppSupport license for ports” topic from the
    2022-06-09  (rainemak, 08:41:55)
  * <Jolla> log.  (rainemak, 08:41:57)
  * <Jolla>  (rainemak, 08:41:59)
  * <Jolla> If we were to do this, it wouldn't be in the immediate
    future.  (rainemak, 08:42:01)
  * <Jolla>  (rainemak, 08:42:03)
  * LINK:
    https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-16th-february-2023/14326
    (rainemak, 08:42:05)
  * LINK:
    https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-9th-june-2022/11704
    (rainemak, 08:42:07)
  * LINK:
    https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2023/sailfishos-meeting.2023-02-16-08.00.log.html
    (rainemak, 08:42:11)
  * LINK:
    https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2022/sailfishos-meeting.2022-06-09-07.01.log.html
    (rainemak, 08:42:14)

* Mic issues under AOSP and SailfishOS (Xperia 10 ii + iii) (5mins --
  asked by Louis)  (rainemak, 08:42:48)
  * <Louis> 3rd party caller my be able to hear their own voice due to a
    bug in  (rainemak, 08:42:55)
  * <Louis> AOSP. Any updates on this from Jolla? Echo during calls on
    Xperia  (rainemak, 08:42:55)
  * <Louis> 10 II using Loudspeaker 1 and [LENA][11][4.19] Echo
    cancellation is  (rainemak, 08:42:55)
  * <Louis> not enabled for voice calls · Issue #771 ·  (rainemak,
    08:42:55)
  * <Louis> sonyxperiadev/bug_tracker · GitHub  (rainemak, 08:42:55)
  * LINK:
    https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/echo-during-calls-on-xperia-10-ii-using-loudspeaker/10990
    (rainemak, 08:42:57)
  * LINK: https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/bug_tracker/issues/771
    (rainemak, 08:42:58)
  * <Jolla> Not really updates. Officially we’re stating Android 11 as
    required  (rainemak, 08:43:00)
  * <Jolla> stock Android version and clearing Android 12 as ok. That
    said,  (rainemak, 08:43:02)
  * <Jolla> without guarantees you could try to update your Sony Xperia
    10 III  (rainemak, 08:43:04)
  * <Jolla> to Android 13 before flashing Sailfish OS and check if it’s
    better  (rainemak, 08:43:06)
  * <Jolla> – please note that Android 11 binary blobs are still needed
    from  (rainemak, 08:43:10)
  * <Jolla> Sony’s web site. Bear in mind that if you upgrade stock
    Android  (rainemak, 08:43:12)
  * <Jolla> version to 13 before flashing Sailfish OS and there are
    other kind  (rainemak, 08:43:14)
  * <Jolla> of issues and you want to downgrade, you need to flash
    Android 12  (rainemak, 08:43:16)
  * <Jolla> with Windows and use Emma.  (rainemak, 08:43:18)
  * LINK: https://docs.sailfishos.org/Support/Supported_Devices/
    (rainemak, 08:43:20)
  * LINK:
    https://docs.sailfishos.org/Support/Help_Articles/Managing_Sailfish_OS/Reinstalling_Sailfish_OS/#reverting-xperia-back-to-android-os
    (rainemak, 08:43:22)

* Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla)  (rainemak, 08:45:18)
  * <Jolla> Any open PRs to discuss?  (rainemak, 08:45:18)
  * <topic> Bug reports by the community bug coordination team (5 min --
    asked by Jolla)  (rainemak, 08:47:02)
  * <Jolla> The Community Bug Coordination Team have done a superb job
    once again this fortnight.  (rainemak, 08:47:07)
  * <Jolla> As a result of their work, we now have:  (rainemak,
    08:47:07)
  * <Jolla> 6 high quality bug reports now recorded internally and
    tagged as "tracked".  (rainemak, 08:47:07)
  * <Jolla> 1 bug report missing “tracked” tag.  (rainemak, 08:47:07)
  * <Jolla> 3 marked as duplicates and closed.  (rainemak, 08:47:09)

* General discussion (8 min)  (rainemak, 08:47:36)
  * LINK:
    https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/android_webview/docs/aosp-system-integration.md#Why-are-there-security-restrictions-on-which-apps-can-be-used-as-a-WebView-implementation
    (rainemak, 08:53:44)
  * "Why are there security restrictions on which apps can be used as a
    WebView implementation?" ^  (rainemak, 08:54:21)

* Next meeting time and date (5 mins)  (rainemak, 08:55:18)
  * LINK:
    https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qml-qt-labs-folderlistmodel-folderlistmodel.html
    (rainemak, 08:56:07)
  * Next meeting will be held on Thursday 1st February 2023 at 08:00am
    UTC: 2024-02-01T0800Z  (rainemak, 08:59:45)

Meeting ended at 09:01:30 UTC.




Action Items
------------





Action Items, by person
-----------------------
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * (none)




People Present (lines said)
---------------------------
* rainemak (239)
* flypig (33)
* poetaster (23)
* nephros (18)
* LouisDK (11)
* piggz (10)
* Matias (8)
* ExTechOp (6)
* sailbot_ (2)
* ViGe (2)
* sebix[m] (1)
* Crabster (1)




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