=============================================================================== #sailfishos-meeting: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 14th March 2024 =============================================================================== Meeting started by rainemak at 08:00:00 UTC. The full logs are available at https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2024/sailfishos-meeting.2024-03-14-08.00.log.html . Meeting summary --------------- * Meeting information and agenda can be found here: (rainemak, 08:00:00) * LINK: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-14th-march-2024/18132 (rainemak, 08:00:00) * Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (rainemak, 08:00:00) * Raine Mäkeläinen, sailor @ Jolla, chairperson today (rainemak, 08:00:40) * nephros, community desktop portal poodle (nephros, 08:00:46) * Ville Nummela - community (ViGe, 08:00:54) * tuplasuhveli, community (tuplasuhveli[m], 08:01:12) * Andrew Branson, sailing by (abr, 08:01:15) * voidanix - community, i think (voidanix[m], 08:01:21) * David Llewellyn-Jones, community (flypig, 08:01:30) * Pekka Vuorela, Jolla (pvuorela, 08:01:46) * Jetset (Jetset, 08:03:15) * Matti Viljanen, community (direc85[m], 08:03:44) * Crabster - lurker (Crabster, 08:03:56) * Increased root partition size on older devices (5mins -- asked by jojomen) (rainemak, 08:05:08) * There are numerous threads here and in the old forum about people (rainemak, 08:05:20) * running into trouble after filling up their root partition. (rainemak, 08:05:20) * @olf has written a good guide on resizing it. However, it’s (rainemak, 08:05:20) * tedious work on top of the already somewhat convoluted flashing (rainemak, 08:05:20) * procedure, and low-level work on the storage config can be scary. (rainemak, 08:05:20) * (rainemak, 08:05:21) * Link to guide, that also has some links to forum topics about (rainemak, 08:05:23) * resizing: (rainemak, 08:05:25) * LINK: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/problems-when-trying-to-resize-the-root-partition/10563/12 (rainemak, 08:05:27) * Having the SFOS installation image default to a 4 GB root (rainemak, 08:05:30) * partition (same as newer devices) would make things easier, and - (rainemak, 08:05:32) * as olf’s guide points out - an SD card can compensate for the 1.5 (rainemak, 08:05:34) * GB lost from the home partition. (rainemak, 08:05:36) * (rainemak, 08:05:38) * Would Jolla consider making this change or, if not, what are the (rainemak, 08:05:40) * key factors against it? (rainemak, 08:05:42) * (rainemak, 08:05:44) * A comment from olf (rainemak, 08:05:48) * …, but not automatically altering partition sizes on extant (rainemak, 08:05:50) * SailfishOS installations. (rainemak, 08:05:52) * (rainemak, 08:05:54) * IMO, this simply requires changing two characters in a (rainemak, 08:05:56) * Otto Mäkelä. community (ExTechOp, 08:05:58) * configuration file and no extra quality assurance beyond review (rainemak, 08:05:58) * and checking for typos, because the space on internal mass storage (rainemak, 08:06:00) * (FLASH memory) is always sufficient for this on all supported (rainemak, 08:06:02) * Xperia models. (rainemak, 08:06:04) * (rainemak, 08:06:06) * This measure would alleviate a very common failure mode for (rainemak, 08:06:08) * SailfishOS upgrades and installing SailfishOS-native software: no (rainemak, 08:06:10) * space left on root volume. (rainemak, 08:06:12) * Let’s start from the problem. We’d like to first understand how (rainemak, 08:06:18) * people end up running out space. What’s causing it? There shouldn’t (rainemak, 08:06:20) * be anything blocking to increase root partition size for older (rainemak, 08:06:22) * devices but only for flashable image (no resizing during upgrade). (rainemak, 08:06:24) * Something similar that we did for newer devices. (rainemak, 08:06:26) * (rainemak, 08:06:28) * There are few scenarios that are easy to foresee / understand. (rainemak, 08:06:30) * (rainemak, 08:06:32) * From platform developer point of view root partition size can be (rainemak, 08:06:34) * problematic especially if you’re working on large project(s) and (rainemak, 08:06:36) * need debug symbols. First thing is to toggle on “Settings -> (rainemak, 08:06:38) * Developer Mode -> Store debug symbols to home (rainemak, 08:06:40) * partition” (alternative you can install package (rainemak, 08:06:42) * jolla-developer-mode-home-debug-location). This way debug symbols (rainemak, 08:06:44) * won’t consume space from root partition. (rainemak, 08:06:48) * (rainemak, 08:06:50) * Secondly using alternative Sailfish app stores might cause (rainemak, 08:06:52) * problems. Of course, also just installing tons of apps. (rainemak, 08:06:54) * (rainemak, 08:06:56) * For apps we are considering something like /opt/apps// (rainemak, 08:06:58) * application root path that would be out of root partition. Under (rainemak, 08:07:00) * this application root path, developers should still use & follow (rainemak, 08:07:02) * Filesystem Hierarchy Standard (FHS) for example like: (rainemak, 08:07:04) * (rainemak, 08:07:06) * /opt/apps//usr/bin/ (rainemak, 08:07:08) * /opt/apps//usr/share// (rainemak, 08:07:10) * /opt/apps//usr/share/applications/.desktop (rainemak, 08:07:12) * (rainemak, 08:07:14) * There are two related goals that should be kept in mind: (rainemak, 08:07:18) * 1) apps should not be installed to the root partition (rainemak, 08:07:20) * 2) root partition should eventually be readonly (rainemak, 08:07:22) * (rainemak, 08:07:24) * If both of these would be met, then size of root partition would (rainemak, 08:07:26) * not be that big of an issue. For time being maybe we just adjust (rainemak, 08:07:28) * root partition for the older devices – we’ll comment this more a (rainemak, 08:07:30) * bit later. (rainemak, 08:07:32) * Björn Bidar - Sailor @ Jolla (Thaodan, 08:13:26) * Extended topic by 5mins (rainemak, 08:14:34) * Damien Caliste, community (dcaliste, 08:17:56) * RCS Messenging (5mins -- asked by Cryx) (rainemak, 08:20:28) * RCS seems to be at least the new Standard as Apple jumps on that (rainemak, 08:20:39) * train too (forced by the DMA of course…). On the long road RCS (rainemak, 08:20:39) * will be the successor of SMS/MMS services. What’s the status for (rainemak, 08:20:39) * RCS support on Sailfish OS? (rainemak, 08:20:39) * (rainemak, 08:20:39) * We brought that topic on from time to time here in the forum (not (rainemak, 08:20:41) * just my me…), but it seems we never had that in a community (rainemak, 08:20:42) * meeting. So, the main questions are if there was any (rainemak, 08:20:44) * thinking/investigation if and how these services could be added (rainemak, 08:20:48) * to SFOS. (rainemak, 08:20:50) * (rainemak, 08:20:52) * To my mind it’s an interesting topic to also now if this might be (rainemak, 08:20:54) * possible as an implemented always on service like phone and SMS (rainemak, 08:20:56) * (as, we all know that other native messengers need to run in (rainemak, 08:20:58) * background to receive messages). (rainemak, 08:21:00) * (rainemak, 08:21:02) * As said above I’ll probably won’t make it into the meeting, but (rainemak, 08:21:04) * in fact I’m just user and no dev and might not really help in the (rainemak, 08:21:06) * discussion at all. (rainemak, 08:21:08) * Thank pherjung for your checking what other distributions are doing (rainemak, 08:21:10) * to enable Rich Communication Services (RCS). No findings. (rainemak, 08:21:12) * (rainemak, 08:21:14) * Apple’s jump was not forced by Digital Markets Act (DMA) as (rainemak, 08:21:18) * iMessage was not deemed as gatekeeper by the European Commission. (rainemak, 08:21:20) * Actually, Rich Communication Services (RCS) is not even mentioned (rainemak, 08:21:22) * there. (rainemak, 08:21:24) * LINK: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/mex_24_785 (rainemak, 08:21:26) * (rainemak, 08:21:28) * The Rich Communication Services (RCS) has been “coming” around 15 (rainemak, 08:21:30) * years. Maybe now with Apple’s push it could really lift off and (rainemak, 08:21:32) * GSMA will agree on standard. That said, it’s still a phone carrier (rainemak, 08:21:34) * protocol just like SMS with similar security model. (rainemak, 08:21:36) * LINK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services (rainemak, 08:21:38) * LINK: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/01/what-apples-promise-support-rcs-means-text-messaging (rainemak, 08:21:40) * (rainemak, 08:21:43) * We have been looking into this but so far always seen this as not (rainemak, 08:21:45) * yet mandatory. Effort wise this is huge. Whether RCS would be (rainemak, 08:21:49) * compatible with current messaging architecture is another big (rainemak, 08:21:51) * topic. (rainemak, 08:21:53) * Further, we should think & compare RCS to Signal for example. (rainemak, 08:21:55) * Could/Should we somehow facilitate deeper Whisperfish integration – (rainemak, 08:21:57) * maybe we should? (rainemak, 08:21:59) * XDG Desktop Portals (10mins -- asked by nephros) (rainemak, 08:30:50) * Sorry for the wall-of text below. Most of it is informational (rainemak, 08:30:50) * -only/General Discussion, specific questions to Jollyboys in (rainemak, 08:30:50) * Part 2, below. (rainemak, 08:30:50) * Too long post, so here’s a link to the post: (rainemak, 08:30:50) * LINK: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-14th-march-2024/18132/7 (rainemak, 08:30:51) * Part 1 Informational: State of the PoC (rainemak, 08:31:36) * Good to see progress! (rainemak, 08:31:36) * Part 2 Questions to Jollyboys (rainemak, 08:31:36) * a) Regarding naming, we’d propose to go with Sailfish as the (rainemak, 08:31:36) * implementation will eventually be Sailfish OS specific. Whilst this (rainemak, 08:31:36) * link regarding coding conventions points to apps it applies well (rainemak, 08:31:37) * for platform development as well. (rainemak, 08:31:39) * LINK: https://docs.sailfishos.org/Develop/Apps/Coding_Conventions/ (rainemak, 08:31:41) * So, D-Bus names org.sailfishos -prefix, use namespace Sailfish (rainemak, 08:31:43) * Amber is meant for platform agnostic components. (rainemak, 08:31:45) * (rainemak, 08:31:49) * b) At this point LGPLv3+ is still problematic. If plausible, would (rainemak, 08:31:51) * be simpler to rewrite those sources pulling in LGPLv3+ and go with (rainemak, 08:31:53) * a compatible license. (rainemak, 08:31:55) * (rainemak, 08:31:57) * c) It should go to /var/lib/environment/nemo/[dd]-name.conf that (rainemak, 08:31:59) * then gets included by user@.service (rainemak, 08:32:01) * (rainemak, 08:32:03) * d) Sounds like PartOf=user-session.target might be applicable. (rainemak, 08:32:05) * Alternatively: Many services (e.g. ngfd) utilize “preinstalled” (rainemak, 08:32:07) * WantedBy= user-session.target symlinks in (rainemak, 08:32:09) * user-session.target.wants -directory. (rainemak, 08:32:11) * (rainemak, 08:32:13) * e) Not really at this point (rainemak, 08:32:17) * (rainemak, 08:32:19) * Part 3 Questions to everybody (rainemak, 08:32:21) * 1. Given that license is sorted out we could take this to the (rainemak, 08:32:23) * github.com/sailfishos (rainemak, 08:32:25) * 2. Other important things to add? (rainemak, 08:32:27) * (rainemak, 08:32:29) * Part 4 Informational: Future outlook and challenges (rainemak, 08:32:31) * Release of adaptation repos for devices dropped in SFOS 4.6 (2-3mins -- asked by nephros) (rainemak, 08:41:06) * Any chance of making available the necessary materials needed for (rainemak, 08:41:13) * community ports of devices whose support has been dropped for (rainemak, 08:41:13) * SFOS 4.6? (rainemak, 08:41:13) * (rainemak, 08:41:13) * Community porters may be able to continue support for older (rainemak, 08:41:13) * devices if enabled to do so. (rainemak, 08:41:15) * (rainemak, 08:41:18) * It would also be a nice legacy for the Jolla Tablet if it could (rainemak, 08:41:20) * live on a bit, something that was unfortunately not possible for (rainemak, 08:41:22) * the original Jolla phone. (Although I fear, of all the dropped (rainemak, 08:41:24) * devices, the chance for getting the Tablet materials is the (rainemak, 08:41:26) * slimmest.) (rainemak, 08:41:28) * Jolla C & Tablet are tricky as there were some proprietary sources. (rainemak, 08:41:30) * Sony Xperia X repositories are already available. (rainemak, 08:41:32) * Migrating alphabetical scrollbar to Silica (10mins -- asked by tuplasuhveli) (rainemak, 08:43:17) * This idea rose from a conversation regarding Flowplayer 2, (rainemak, 08:43:29) * but other SFOS apps could also benefit from the neat (rainemak, 08:43:29) * scrollbar presented in SFOS People app. Could Jolla consider (rainemak, 08:43:29) * adding the scrollbar into the Silica components? (rainemak, 08:43:29) * LINK: https://github.com/sailfishos-applications/flowplayer (rainemak, 08:43:29) * Yes, this could well be something to consider. It has some (rainemak, 08:43:38) * references to contacts that should be cut before it could be even (rainemak, 08:43:38) * considered to be moved to Silica. Very good suggestion! Needs more (rainemak, 08:43:38) * thinking and planning. (rainemak, 08:43:38) * Qt version (5mins -- asked by KeeperoftheKeys) (rainemak, 08:45:06) * Sorry if this was recently discussed - I was just looking (rainemak, 08:45:10) * up some documentation on certain QML elements and (rainemak, 08:45:10) * realized that the oldest version of Qt that still has (rainemak, 08:45:10) * documentation available is 5.15, while the Sailfish (rainemak, 08:45:10) * documentation is very far from complete and relies on the (rainemak, 08:45:10) * official Qt documentation. Though the documentation (rainemak, 08:45:11) * thankfully still notes when things were added all in all (rainemak, 08:45:13) * the situation to continue developing on much older (rainemak, 08:45:17) * versions is getting worse also from the point of view of (rainemak, 08:45:19) * being able to open docs and understanding what behaviour (rainemak, 08:45:21) * should be. (rainemak, 08:45:23) * You can find Qt 5.6 documentation here. (rainemak, 08:45:25) * LINK: https://doc.qt.io/archives/qt-5.6/index.html (rainemak, 08:45:27) * Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla) (rainemak, 08:46:12) * Any open PRs to discuss? (rainemak, 08:46:17) * ACTION: Check voidanix[m] comment, talking about backporting, what about kernel upgrades? https://github.com/mer-hybris/android_kernel_sony_msm/pull/136 (rainemak, 08:51:46) * General discussion (6 min) (rainemak, 08:52:28) * LINK: https://docs.sailfishos.org/Develop/L10n/#coordinators (rainemak, 08:52:45) * LINK: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sailfish-community-news-7th-march-2024-eula/18184 (rainemak, 08:57:17) * Next meeting time and date (1 mins) (rainemak, 08:59:35) * Next meeting will be held on Thursday 28th March 2024 at 08:00am UTC: 2024-03-28T0800Z (rainemak, 09:01:25) Meeting ended at 09:01:30 UTC. Action Items ------------ * Check voidanix[m] comment, talking about backporting, what about kernel upgrades? https://github.com/mer-hybris/android_kernel_sony_msm/pull/136 Action Items, by person ----------------------- * voidanix[m] * Check voidanix[m] comment, talking about backporting, what about kernel upgrades? https://github.com/mer-hybris/android_kernel_sony_msm/pull/136 * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * rainemak (276) * Thaodan (39) * nephros (24) * abr (20) * direc85[m] (18) * voidanix[m] (14) * flypig (12) * ExTechOp (10) * ViGe (4) * sailbot (2) * tuplasuhveli[m] (2) * dcaliste (2) * pvuorela (1) * Jetset (1) * Crabster (1) * sebix[m] (1) * piggz (1) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot