07:00:24 #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 30th May 2024 07:00:24 Meeting started Thu May 30 07:00:24 2024 UTC. The chair is rainemak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 07:00:24 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 07:00:24 #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here: 07:00:24 #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-30th-may-2024/18640/ 07:00:24 I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive. 07:00:24 #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info 07:00:42 #info Otto Mäkelä, community 07:00:49 ExTechOp, maybe I forgot to update it last time 07:01:05 #info Raine Mäkeläinen, sailor @ Jolla, chairperson today 07:02:45 #info Matti Viljanen, community 07:03:04 #info Andrea Scarpino, SailfishOS user, maintainer of some app 07:04:59 #info Pami Ketolainen, sailor @ Jolla 07:05:10 #info Ruben De Smet, rubdos 07:05:40 Nice number of questions today. Unfortunately one come too late. We'll cover that at the forum. 07:05:52 Welcome all 07:05:59 #topic Sony Xperia 10 IV and V base firmware for Sailfish installation (5mins -- asked by ExTechOp) 07:06:05 #info Please let us know at your earliest convenient time what version 07:06:05 #info of the Sony Xperia 10 IV and V base firmware you want to have at 07:06:05 #info Sailfish install time. Once we get our phones and run them a while 07:06:05 #info on Android (to verify they are functioning normally, as you 07:06:05 #info recommend), the system may want to update itself to beyond what 07:06:07 #info the Sailfish installer expects, and this of course could be 07:06:08 #info problematic. 07:06:21 #info Yes, thank you. Yes, do inform you as soon as possible. Currently 07:06:21 #info it’s Android 13 based. 07:06:35 rainemak: Uh oh :) 07:07:33 (Oh, it's not mine) 07:08:13 Not yours 07:09:03 Needed to cut time from direc85[m] 's first one as well 07:09:32 I currently have Android 14 on a Google Pixel, and I am a bit worried that Sony might at some point also update to that. 07:09:33 I believe we can cover that as well in time 07:09:56 ExTechOp, we noticed that 14 is available already 07:10:16 as a backup there's always Emma 07:10:36 let's move on 07:10:42 #topic The Jolla Mind2 (5mins -- asked by jojomen) 07:10:49 #info Long list of questions. Hence, a link to forum. 07:10:49 #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-30th-may-2024/18640/3 07:11:03 #info Thank you jojomen & throwaway69 for the Jolla Mind 2 questions. 07:11:03 #info Anything related to the Jolla Mind 2 please join to the established 07:11:03 #info Jolla Mind 2 discord server 10 there’s a mind2 channel. There are 07:11:03 #info technical people to give you answers. 07:11:03 #info 07:11:05 #info We’ll pass these questions to Mind 2 team. Thanks. 07:11:06 #link https://discord.gg/K3BaqkuK 07:11:07 (Yes, I've messed around with Emma and would prefer to avoid that.) 07:12:08 somehow there's an extra 10... please ignore that 07:14:15 Have you already joined to the discord? 07:14:42 I have (finally) 07:15:47 let's take next one... 07:15:50 #topic Jolla Community Phone 2 (5mins -- asked by jojomen) 07:15:57 #info 1) How long will it last on a battery charge? (Say, compared to the XA2 or 10III.) 07:15:57 #info 2) Does it run a mainline kernel? 07:15:57 #info 2.1) If not, for how long is the SoC supported by its 07:15:57 #info 2.1) manufacturer? 07:15:57 #info 3) Which periferals use mainline drivers? 07:15:59 #info 3.1) For those that do not, for how long are drivers supported by 07:16:01 #info 3.1) the manufacturer? 07:16:27 #info Thank you for your questions! 07:16:27 #info 1) Seems to be lasting long but unfortunately, I do not have 07:16:27 #info comparison numbers. 07:16:27 #info 2) No, it doesn’t run mainline kernel. 07:16:27 #info 3) No, it doesn't use mainline drivers. 07:19:45 what a silence... 07:19:58 #topic Licence subscriptions (5mins -- asked by jojomen) 07:19:58 #info What developer subscription options will there be? 07:19:58 #info 07:19:58 #info The SFOS app ecosystem relies on individual efforts, with no 07:19:58 #info feasible way to recuperate costs. Making sure an app works and 07:19:59 #info looks ok means testing on many devices, which would make 07:20:01 #info subscription costs high for the developer. As a result, developers 07:20:03 #info will be incentivized to limit testing. 07:20:08 #info What kind of models would you like to see? Calling proposals from 07:20:08 #info those who feel it concerns them. 07:20:34 Above is also good for you rubdos[m] and direc85[m] 07:20:37 I was proposing discounts based on number of PR merged in OSS projects owned by Jolla 07:21:01 or "Pay (part of the) subscription for this dev" button in the Jolla Store 07:21:54 or just implement paid apps in the Jolla Store... 07:21:58 Let's gather feedback and see ideas that you all have 07:22:56 Well, I do have a selection of supported devices, and those having perpetual license is certainly a good thing. 07:23:14 ilpianista, I've been thinking in different context some sort of a contributor of a month kind of reward 07:23:33 ^ not necessarily far from you idea 07:24:01 For the new license models, a reasonably-priced perpetual license came first to mind... 07:24:17 Maybe integrating LIberapay somewhat into the Jolla Store would also be an idea. IMO those things map rather neatly 07:24:20 yup, that would also be nice, but maybe "top 3" not just one? I mean with Ruben De Smet and direc85 around is hard to become number 1 :-P 07:25:04 ilpianista, surely that kind of a reward could not given always to the same 07:25:18 Then again, how many of us develop features that require Android App Support etc. features? I require Android App Support for my daily driver, but for development purposes with the things I tinker with the free license is actually enough. 07:25:21 rubdos[m]: I would love liberapay integration, but often I've mailed privately because people don't like "subscriptions" 07:25:30 and thus they prefer paypal 07:25:43 ilpianista: FWIW, I have *nothing* on the Jolla store myself :D 07:25:51 direc85[m]: agreed 07:26:13 ilpianista: multiple options is certainly necessary. But I think it should be one of them. Jolla could facilitate a lot of the friction there. 07:26:34 rubdos[m], let's try to figure out how to get Whisperfish there :) 07:27:19 shall we move on... this deserves a forum thread of it's own 07:27:34 #topic Some details on few topics I care (5mins -- asked by ilpianista) 07:27:42 #info Is there any plan to implement these features? If not, could 07:27:42 #info you please opensource the components? 07:27:42 #info 07:27:42 #info 1) Automatically mount *encrypted* sd-card 07:27:42 #info 2) ICE (In Case Of Emergency) field on lock screen 1 07:27:43 #info Option to scramble PIN layout when unlocking device 1 07:27:45 rainemak: maybe we should also consider translators here 07:27:47 #info 07:27:49 #info EDIT: using patchmanager to solve those isn’t a viable solution 07:27:51 #info as I don’t want to mess with hacky workarounds. 07:27:55 ilpianista, certainly 07:28:02 #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/automatically-mount-encrypted-sd-card/12023 07:28:02 #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/ice-in-case-of-emergency-field-on-lock-screen/6726 07:28:02 #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/option-to-scramble-pin-layout-when-unlocking-device/6944 07:28:10 #info Currently these are not in the roadmap. First two would be nice and 07:28:10 #info valuable (surely 3rd one as well). Scrambling the PIN layout needs 07:28:10 #info more thinking. Very valuable input, we’ll consider these to the 07:28:10 #info roadmap. 07:28:41 rainemak: Our side has a plan for that, but we should execute it at some point too :'-) 07:29:52 rainemak: like for SailfishOS 4.6.x or 5? 07:30:10 Those would be nice features to have indeed :) 07:30:23 ilpianista, let's see 07:32:21 (I think we could list the current Store incompatibilities as a starting point.) 07:32:41 direc85[m], that's a good starting point 07:32:43 #topic Software licences (5mins -- asked by jojomen) 07:32:43 #info Please elaborate a bit on the good news about the GPL v3 “not 07:32:43 #info being a problem” (announced during Love Day) and the possibility 07:32:43 #info to open source parts (like happened briefly in October last year) 07:33:05 #info Let’s clarify. We did not announce that GPLv3 is good. Sami talked 07:33:05 #info about former limitation that we had. Let’s see what future 07:33:05 #info brings :). 07:33:05 #link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nEC3sVExAU&t=5365s 07:34:16 direc85[m], would you like to take an action there regarding current Store incompatibilities from your point of view? 07:34:44 direc85[m], maybe drafting in forum 07:34:59 rainemak: Sure, I'll do that 07:35:07 direc85[m], thank you 07:36:16 I'm not sure how to react to the GPLv3 clarification. It doesn't sound like Qt 6 however... 07:37:24 #topic Catching Ctrl-Enter in QML (5mins -- asked by direc85) 07:37:24 #info Requested 10mins, giving you 5mins. 07:37:34 #info Many desktop chat applications can be configured so that while 07:37:34 #info typing a message, Enter on the keyboard makes a new line and 07:37:34 #info Ctrl-Enter or Shift-Enter sends the message. Using a Bluetooth or 07:37:34 #info USB keyboard with Sailfish OS, it doesn’t seem to be possible to 07:37:34 #info catch the modifier keys in QML TextArea item to replicate the 07:37:35 #info behaviour. Is it possible to catch the modifiers, and if so, how 07:37:37 #info could it be done? If not, would it be possible to have this 07:37:39 #info feature in a future release? 07:37:41 #info 07:37:43 #info PS. Yes, the context is Whisperfish here, but this should apply to 07:37:47 #info Messages and other messaging applications too - if they choose to 07:37:49 #info implement it. There are plenty of other keyboard-navigation ideas 07:37:51 #info I have, but let’s start with this first. 07:37:53 #info Sorry Direc85, we just didn’t have time try to sort out this for 07:37:55 #info you. 07:37:57 #info 07:37:59 #info That said, we’ll get back to you on the matter. 07:38:01 #info Please ping me if don’t hear from us. 07:39:16 Thanks for the answer, I'll ping you at some point if needed 07:41:12 I'm also happy to see the question received plenty of likes 07:41:27 Yeap 07:41:38 #topic Delete email action for events view (10mins -- asked by direc85) 07:41:38 #info As I receive quite a lot of update notifications via email, and 07:41:38 #info just reading the title is enough, it would be handy if there was a 07:41:38 #info third action for the email in events view - deleting the email. 07:41:38 #info I’m sure others users too would find good use of the feature. Some 07:41:39 #info applications already provide more than two actions, for example 07:41:41 #info WhatsApp messages offer three actions, so that shouldn’t be an 07:41:43 #info issue. Could this feature be added to to Email in a future 07:41:47 #info release? 07:42:12 #info While could fit some uses, we need to be cautious on deleting 07:42:12 #info content which cannot be (easily) returned. Commonly that’s protected 07:42:12 #info by remorse items, and notification actions can be even more easy to 07:42:12 #info trigger by accident. However, the remorse from client side does not 07:42:12 #info necessarily fit the notification system that well. Also, while we 07:42:13 #info cannot control how many notification actions Android apps use, there 07:42:17 #info should probably be some threshold of going over the two. 07:42:19 #info 07:42:21 #info That said, we see and hear your point of view. 07:43:54 This requires a bit more thinking on how to approach this. In my daily usage I could see benefit of deleting email directly from notification. 07:44:10 Being cautious about deleting content is indeed a valid point. 07:44:56 Having it as a default-disabled setting would be one option to mitigate it... 07:45:18 dcaliste, we're just talking about delete email action for events view 07:45:47 I'm reading the back log about it ! 07:46:59 Could lipstick event view page host a remorse item ? 07:47:08 Lipstick would be the client then. 07:47:57 direc85[m], also the fact that you're doing a conscious decision 07:48:05 I wonder if that would need the opposite of a remorse dialog to guard against pocket deletions - a confirm countdown dialog? 07:48:49 Remorse timer would work, but doesn't protect against pocket deletions... 07:49:05 abr, good question... I'm not personally seeing pocket events view whatever actions but I do use security code and "No delay" 07:49:39 Double-tapping the delete button would make the action more conscious, but it would be a new interaction type... 07:50:15 yeah. that's a good point that requiring unlock would also do it, but only if no delay is set 07:50:34 One option could (in the case of email) be to just move it to Trash, instead of actually deleting it off the server, and let "someone else" take care of emptying the Trash. 07:50:50 ExTechOp, that's a good point 07:51:19 I'll certainly note a task / story about this 07:51:22 I'd prefer to have things like this selectable. 07:51:25 Some Android applications use sliding the item to left, which reveals the delete action underneath. That's been unintuitive to say the least... 07:51:44 but still vulnerable to you never knowing that you received the email at all. maybe it needs to leave the notif up saying that there was an email but it's deleted until that is manually dismissed 07:51:52 ExTechOp: I always delete to trash first 07:52:26 but that kind of negates the option to delete it from notif in the first place because it's still there 07:53:01 we have topic still and usual PR discussion and general... let's continue brainstorming this in the general topic 07:53:23 #topic Ruby dropped from repos (2mins -- asked by rubdos) 07:53:31 #info The changelog of 4.6.0.11 1 mentioned the removal of Ruby from the 07:53:31 #info SailfishOS repositories. I’m probably the only one using it (the 07:53:31 #info university restaurant menu gets pushed to my Pebble over DBUS with 07:53:31 #info that script), but I’d love to know the reasoning behind this. 07:53:39 #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/changelog-sauna-4-6-0/18531 07:53:46 #info We do not have anything requiring Ruby in the stack anymore. For a 07:53:46 #info long time, it was only a build requirement for some component, but 07:53:46 #info as that is no longer the case, we decided to drop Ruby to cut down 07:53:46 #info the maintenance burden, build cycles, etc. 07:55:14 Perhaps Ruby could be added to Chum, if a volunteer shows up? 07:55:27 Assuming the package sources are available. 07:55:54 That's totally fine and expected. I'll just rewritemy script. 07:56:10 let's move on... let's consider chum 07:56:14 ruby is still available at https://github.com/sailfishos/ruby 07:56:18 #topic Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla) 07:56:18 #info Any open PRs to discuss? 07:56:18 As there are no bug reports today. Let's move to general discussion. 07:56:20 Sorry Im on mobile atm and my touchscreen is very messed up. I really need that IV image :p 07:56:31 Do you plan, Jolla, to keep it there, so it can be updated by community efforts ? 07:57:08 ooh community maintained repos in github/sfos :D 07:57:29 Or fork/donate it to github.com/sailfishapps 07:57:51 abr: As long as they don't do that to Rust;) 07:57:57 dcaliste, why not. It can be there in github.com/sailfishos 07:57:58 probably best to fork though I dare say 07:58:17 i don't think rust will be going anywhere. gecko needs it and gstreamer probably will soon. 07:58:32 abr, gstreamer already needs it 07:58:47 this is already general 07:58:52 so let's make it so 07:58:53 #topic General discussion (5 min) 07:59:03 yep. though the component requiring it isn't very important, but the dep is already there! 07:59:16 Yeh, just kidding honestly. Ill leave for now. Texting on the bus is hard 07:59:23 abr, I'm only talking about the dep 08:00:34 I guess that's it for today! 08:00:45 let's schedule still next meeting... 08:01:05 delete events view action thinking could actually go to forum as well 08:01:28 #topic Next meeting time and date (2 mins) 08:01:28 Proposing Thursday 13th June at 07:00am UTC 08:01:28 Very good discussion once again! Thank you all! 08:01:45 Sounds good. 08:02:04 Works for me! 08:02:28 that's it then 08:02:38 #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 13th June 2024 at 07:00am UTC: 2024-06-13T0700Z 08:02:41 Thank you for the meeting. 08:02:54 #endmeeting