07:00:19 <rainemak> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 5th September 2024
07:00:19 <sailbot> Meeting started Thu Sep  5 07:00:19 2024 UTC. The chair is rainemak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
07:00:19 <sailbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
07:00:20 <rainemak> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:
07:00:20 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-5th-september-2024/19811
07:00:20 <rainemak> I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive.
07:00:20 <rainemak> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info
07:00:27 <ExTechOp> Good Morning, everyone!
07:00:39 <ExTechOp> #info Otto Mäkelä, community
07:00:43 <rainemak> good morning ExTechOp
07:00:49 <rainemak> #info Raine Mäkeläinen, Jolla
07:01:22 <b100dian[m]> #info Vlad G., community
07:01:46 <direc85> Good morning!
07:02:01 <direc85> #info Matti Viljanen, Sailor @ Jolla
07:03:04 <rainemak> Welcome direc85! Nice to have you with us.
07:03:40 <Thaodan> #info Björn Bidar, Sailor @ Jolla
07:04:02 <direc85> Thank you, great to be board!
07:04:51 <b100dian[m]> That's great news on many levels:)
07:05:03 <rainemak> Welcome everybody! We have two topics today.
07:05:07 <rainemak> Let's get started
07:05:16 <rainemak> #topic Is Jolla C2 new telephony stack going to be open source, including VoLTE/5G? (10 mins -- asked by vlagged)
07:05:16 <rainemak> #info <vlagged> Some details about the topic: The “Jolla C2 Community Phone
07:05:16 <rainemak> #info <vlagged> deliveries 3” thread starts with the mention of a new Android 13+
07:05:16 <rainemak> #info <vlagged> telephony stack and the recent messages there asked for support
07:05:16 <rainemak> #info <vlagged> testing the VoLTE compatibility. As the previous VoLTE
07:05:18 <rainemak> #info <vlagged> implementation was proprietary, I would like to know if the next
07:05:20 <rainemak> #info <vlagged> one will have a brighter future and be open sourced. The next best
07:05:22 <rainemak> #info <vlagged> thing - will packages be available to community ports? Thanks!
07:06:26 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Jolla C2 is a unisoc device. For VoLTE this means that ofono
07:06:26 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> vendor plugin will be for unisoc hardware adaptation. Similarly as
07:06:26 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> there is that qti plugin. Whether it is then open sourced eventually
07:06:26 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> or not is more complex question as there's a vendor dependency.
07:06:26 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Let's make first a solid VoLTE for Jolla C2.
07:06:37 <pvuorela> (hi on my part too!, missed the introduction it seems)
07:06:45 <piggz[m]> morning
07:06:48 <rainemak> pvuorela, no worry
07:06:51 <piggz[m]> #info piggz community porter
07:06:53 <rainemak> morning piggz[m]
07:07:02 <dcaliste> #info Damien Caliste, community
07:07:09 <Thaodan> Just follow up with #info and you're good to go
07:07:09 <dcaliste> Sorry to be late...
07:07:42 <rainemak> morning dcaliste ... no worry, we have plenty of time
07:07:49 <Thaodan> A wizard is never late, he just arrives at the right time
07:08:20 <b100dian[m]> Ok, I think this was also partially answered by mal on the forums..
07:08:35 <piggz[m]> ill just chip in with the volte support on the volla x23 community support.  excellent work by notkit to make a mediatek ofono binder plugin that -should- work on all android12 based mediatek devices
07:08:38 <rainemak> b100dian[m], yeap... let's link that answer here as well
07:09:00 <b100dian[m]> The vendor dependency means you also have acces to vendor source code?
07:09:54 <Thaodan> Doesn't have to be, you can also try to hook into the blob
07:10:20 <b100dian[m]> https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sailfish-community-news-29th-august-2024-c2-update/19793/7
07:10:22 <rainemak> #info The answer partially covered already in the forum
07:10:25 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sailfish-community-news-29th-august-2024-c2-update/19793/7
07:10:48 <b100dian[m]> But how could this hooking impact the license?
07:10:55 <rainemak> b100dian[m], yes, for Jolla C2 we have full source code access
07:11:38 <b100dian[m]> @piggz So Mtk is now the better chipset:)
07:12:05 <Thaodan> Are the vendor sources for volla x23 open?
07:12:17 <piggz[m]> well, its actually pretty good yeah ... also, pinephone does volte natively :)
07:12:22 <piggz[m]> Thaodan: not sure about that
07:13:27 <rainemak> b100dian[m], first things first, let's make it first work.
07:13:55 <rainemak> implementation is actually proceeding nicely
07:14:05 <Thaodan> OK so the situation is similar as with the C2 from what it sounds.
07:14:08 <b100dian[m]> Agreed. Can't wait for that round of OSS repos though..
07:14:46 <Thaodan> For Sony we only have blobs obviously. But at least they are generic Qti blobs.
07:15:02 <rainemak> Next one is a nice topic, shall we move on
07:15:26 <rainemak> b100dian[m], I think your topic is covered
07:15:34 <b100dian[m]> Ok with me, yes
07:15:39 <rainemak> #topic Replacing device lock maximum attempts with attempt delays (10 mins -- asked by pvuorela)
07:15:39 <rainemak> #info <pvuorela> The device lock settings has had configurable maximum attempts.
07:15:39 <rainemak> #info <pvuorela> When that is reached, the device is put into locked state. The
07:15:39 <rainemak> #info <pvuorela> setting has been vague on the UI, not fully explaining what it
07:15:39 <rainemak> #info <pvuorela> does, and also dangerous as unlock attempts might happen
07:15:43 <rainemak> #info <pvuorela> unintended in a pocket, or by a toddler, etc. It hasn’t protected
07:15:45 <rainemak> #info <pvuorela> the sensitive data too well either as nothing gets done to that.
07:15:47 <rainemak> #info <pvuorela> So instead of configurable maximum attempts, we are considering
07:15:49 <rainemak> #info <pvuorela> adding pauses on retries after too many failed attempts in short
07:15:51 <rainemak> #info <pvuorela> time.
07:16:16 <rainemak> This is more like a discussion item for each and everybody
07:16:18 <pvuorela> yea, so created the item get some sentiment about such a change.
07:17:06 <Brian_> Is there an Archive of this discussion for those of us how joined a few mins late ?
07:17:07 <pvuorela> there's been a bunch of 'help, my device got locked' items on tjc already, wouldn't like to see more of those :)
07:17:21 <rainemak> Does anybody know what happens when maximum attempt count is reached?
07:17:27 <ExTechOp> (sounds a bit like the classic iPhone message "your phone is locked, you can try unlocking in 126144000 seconds", which is 4 years or so)
07:18:06 <rainemak> Brian_, yes... both from this one and past years
07:18:43 <Thaodan> I think it's not to bad, it matches up what's happening if enter your password wrong on your computer for example
07:18:48 <rainemak> Brian_, https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/
07:19:04 <direc85> I've used the device lock max attempts because I thought that reaching the limit would erase the home partition, but that is not the case.
07:19:07 <Brian_> @rainemak ..... thanks.
07:19:44 <rainemak> and welcome Brian_
07:20:33 <rainemak> pvuorela, I don't like either those 'help, my device got locked' cases
07:21:14 <rainemak> and some may have device lock max attempts enabled by accident
07:21:42 <pvuorela> i guess good thing here is that i'm not hearing much objections on the idea :)
07:22:23 <b100dian[m]> Now with qwerty you could ask them to enter a given word to prove they are human
07:22:23 <dcaliste> Yeh, I think that a reasonable 30 s to 1 min between attempts after some failure would block any brute force.
07:22:34 <Thaodan> I guess the option for max attempts could be changed into something like after X attempts the device shuts off
07:22:55 <Thaodan> so that the encrypted data is safe and can't be attacked
07:23:06 <rainemak> Thaodan, that could be an option as well
07:23:10 <Thaodan> warm boot attack
07:23:21 <pvuorela> that would be already better too.
07:24:02 <rainemak> but attempt delay is something that we should look at... I mean in any case
07:24:09 <pvuorela> yes.
07:24:15 <Thaodan> I consider that quite important for the political minded
07:24:44 <Thaodan> it helps in cases where autorities try to force access into a user data
07:24:53 <Thaodan> e.g. a political activist
07:26:42 <direc85> Bt it still doesn't prevent dumping the partition and brute-forcing the password. This was demonstrated in the forum if I'm not mistaken... I'll try to find the thread.
07:27:51 <direc85> https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/how-to-unlock-the-encryption-of-your-home-if-you-dont-know-your-lock-code-bruteforce/3004/8
07:27:55 <Thaodan> It doesn't of course since we can't lock the bootloader on most devices since they don't support custom bootloader keys
07:28:30 <Thaodan> only a better pin/secret can help with that.
07:29:24 <Thaodan> and the possibilty to stop attackers from booting custom initramfs
07:29:43 <rainemak> we're a bit overtime already
07:29:51 <Thaodan> yeah lets move on
07:30:49 <rainemak> I think conclusion is that there are no strong feelings against pvuorela's proposal
07:31:24 <rainemak> #info No strong comments / feelings against pvuorela's proposal
07:31:32 <rainemak> #topic Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla)
07:32:07 <Brian_> @rainemak No objection.
07:32:22 <rainemak> flypig started opening esr91 PRs
07:32:32 <rainemak> which is nice!
07:33:27 <rubdos[m]> direc85, congrats
07:34:15 <direc85> rubdos[m], thank you :)
07:34:17 <rainemak> ^ it's not really started... those are all open already :-)
07:34:23 <piggz[m]> im told the native mesa support for gecko is no longer working on the PP/PPP, i havnt checked myself yet, but ill have to chip in with them!
07:35:14 <rainemak> piggz[m], I heard as well... Emulator is an option to debug native adaptation
07:35:28 <piggz[m]> ah, true
07:35:38 <Thaodan> Will check how it works with virtio
07:36:15 <Thaodan> Virtualbox isn't the same as it doesn't use mesa I think.
07:36:34 <Thaodan> Virtualbox/Emulator
07:36:38 <rainemak> Sounds that we do not have open PRs to discuss
07:36:50 <direc85> I've been testing the esr91 builds and they are in quite good shape already. Very impressive!
07:37:18 <dcaliste> Yes, it's already a great achievement from flypig and the other contributors.
07:37:30 <rainemak> Thaodan, I believe that the issue is similar that piggz[m] fixed in the past for native ports.... back then the issue was also visible in emulator
07:37:53 <rainemak> I'll give 3mins more for this
07:38:10 <rainemak> or 2mins :-)
07:38:15 <piggz[m]> when does the 102 port start? :D
07:38:15 <direc85> I gouldn't get esr91 start in emulator, didn't go deep into that (yet).
07:38:31 <Thaodan> rainemak: ok that could be similar then. However mesa would be closer to native ports. In any case that's more a topic for #sailfishos-porters
07:40:25 <rainemak> #topic General discussion (10 mins)
07:41:27 <ExTechOp> Do we have new news of SFOS availability for Sony Xperia 10 IV and V devices? We're are past the August 2024 time for the SFOS paid components originally mentioned at the love-fest.
07:42:12 <rainemak> ExTechOp, not other than free version available asap :-)
07:42:23 <rainemak> ExTechOp, there will be hiccups and issues
07:43:01 <rainemak> we'll openly inform regarding known issues
07:43:44 <ExTechOp> Is there supposed to be something at https://shop.jolla.com/downloads/ for them, the latest I see there is the Xperia 10 III?
07:44:00 <rainemak> We'll inform
07:44:39 <rainemak> Yesterday we updated on the Jolla C2 https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/jolla-c2-community-phone-deliveries/19468/187
07:48:48 <ExTechOp> What I'm trying to ask, since the shop doesn't even seem to have the free trial version available, am I doing something wrong?
07:49:24 <rainemak> ExTechOp, no, you're not... we're working to get free version available asap
07:51:15 <ExTechOp> Okay then. It is somewhat confusing that https://docs.sailfishos.org/Support/Supported_Devices/ lists them, and links to Jolla Shop which doesn't.
07:52:09 <rainemak> ExTechOp, I see... I'll write a note and an internal ticket
07:52:26 <rainemak> let's schedule next meeting
07:52:31 <rainemak> #topic Next meeting time and date (5 mins)
07:52:42 <rainemak> Proposing Thursday 19th September at 07:00am UTC
07:53:13 <ExTechOp> Works4me.
07:54:18 <dcaliste> That's ok.
07:54:52 <direc85> Works for me
07:56:41 <Brian_> May I ask a question ?
07:57:02 <Thaodan> either ask now if it's something short
07:57:03 <rainemak> Brian_, of course
07:57:09 <Brian_> Is this a regular group ? I am new /here/ although a Jolla user since the C1.
07:57:18 <Thaodan> or ask next time in the meeting by posting in the forum
07:57:33 <rainemak> Thaodan, let Brian_ ask
07:58:13 <rainemak> Brian_, yes, this meeting takes place bi-weekly given that there are no other overlapping events or such
07:58:58 <rainemak> Brian_, there's also #sailfishos channel on the same irc server. That can be used for generic discussion as well
07:59:10 <Brian_> Great. Thanks. I'll start reading archive and will join again on time.
07:59:52 <rainemak> and #sailfishos-porters channel is for hw adaptations
08:00:04 <Thaodan> See you next time then
08:00:12 <Brian_> Will do.
08:00:17 <Thaodan> If you can't make it you can also follow this meeting on Telegram
08:00:29 <Thaodan> https://t.me/joinchat/AAAAAFcbasJX67Fu-aGxxQ
08:00:44 <rainemak> it's always nice to see new people
08:00:46 <rainemak> #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 19th September 2024 at 07:00am UTC: 2024-09-19T0700Z
08:00:53 <rainemak> #endmeeting