06:59:59 <rainemak> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 19th September 2024
06:59:59 <sailbot> Meeting started Thu Sep 19 06:59:59 2024 UTC. The chair is rainemak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
06:59:59 <sailbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
07:00:10 <rainemak> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:
07:00:10 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-19th-september-2024/19901
07:00:10 <rainemak> I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive.
07:00:10 <rainemak> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info
07:00:23 <ExTechOp> #info Otto Mäkelä, community
07:00:53 <rubdos[m]> #info Ruben De Smet, community
07:01:09 <direc85> #info Matti Viljanen, Jolla
07:01:18 <Crabster> #info Crabster - lurker
07:01:50 <pvuorela> #info Pekka Vuorela, Jolla
07:02:09 <rainemak> #info Raine Mäkeläinen, Jolla
07:02:27 <flypig> #info David Llewellyn-Jones, community
07:02:30 <sebix[m]> #info Sebix, community
07:03:25 <rainemak> No topics today. Let's try to keep this brief if plausible -- we have a planning day starting right after this one.
07:04:09 <sebix[m]> Does anyone have further input to the Hackathon (happening on the following weekend)?
07:04:28 <rubdos[m]> Q for the hackathon: any forecast on the weather conditions?
07:04:28 <rainemak> sebix[m], a good topic for general discussion
07:04:36 <Thaodan> #info Björn Bidar ,  Sailor @ Jolla
07:05:02 <flypig> sebix[m]: could you summarise the plan?
07:05:15 <rainemak> please let's take that for generic
07:05:23 <rainemak> #topic Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla)
07:06:30 <rainemak> I know that flypig has some :-) => I haven't had time for check them
07:06:39 <rainemak> again that is
07:06:59 <rubdos[m]> Which ones would that be? ^^
07:07:05 <flypig> Maybe this would also be a good one to flag:
07:07:05 <flypig> https://github.com/sailfishos/embedlite-components/pull/101
07:07:19 <rainemak> rubdos[m], xulrunner PR
07:07:43 <rubdos[m]> Hehe, I know, just joking. I'll keep it to myself :)
07:08:45 <flypig> Unfortunately I'm stuck making your requested changes to the gecko-dev PR rainemak. I can't get it to work if I start the browsaer with the prefs set to true. I'll persevere with it though.
07:09:05 <flypig> That's on this one for ref: https://github.com/sailfishos/gecko-dev/pull/162
07:09:42 <flypig> But, no rush for these, and no need to further discuss them today.
07:11:34 <rainemak> flypig, that embedlite-components PR looks pretty straightforward
07:12:01 <rainemak> => merged
07:12:05 <flypig> rainemak: yes, I agree.
07:12:10 <flypig> Brilliant, thank you!
07:12:23 <rainemak> let's move to the general discussion
07:12:28 <rainemak> if nothing else
07:12:28 <direc85> I should test building esr91 with the Rust 1.78 and LLVM PRs, I don't remember if there was something else holding those up.
07:12:41 <direc85> https://github.com/sailfishos/rust/pull/23 and https://github.com/sailfishos/llvm/pull/6 for reference
07:13:24 <rainemak> #link https://github.com/sailfishos/embedlite-components/pull/101
07:13:25 <direc85> *Rust 1.79
07:13:30 <rainemak> #link https://github.com/sailfishos/gecko-dev/pull/162
07:13:38 <rainemak> #link https://github.com/sailfishos/rust/pull/23
07:13:45 <rainemak> #link  https://github.com/sailfishos/llvm/pull/6
07:14:31 <flypig> direc85: if I get time I'll try that too and post what happens on the PRs.
07:14:56 <rainemak> #topic General discussion (20 mins)
07:15:36 <sebix[m]> Concerning the weather in Prague next weekend: Depending on the source 15-20°C and partly cloudy. But no significant rain and therefore no floods :)
07:15:55 <direc85> flypig, thanks, let's see how it goes
07:16:01 <rubdos[m]> Good, then I'll finally book all my tickets :'-)
07:16:10 <rubdos[m]> Any suggested hotel/place to stay?
07:16:17 <flypig> sebix[m]: As I've not followed all the conversation on the forum, I'm keen to know what the plan is.
07:16:35 <flypig> I'm also interested to hear accommodation advice!
07:20:54 <direc85> Do we have any estimate of how many people will join?
07:21:11 <rubdos[m]> #info https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/september-27-30-sailathon-24-in-prague/19912 Topic for Prague next week
07:21:21 <rubdos[m]> ^ contains a list of sign-ups
07:21:27 <sebix[m]> flypig: There's no schedule yet as far as I know apart from the location and the start at 9h. But I myself will only arrive at 12am though. I guess we do organize and plan once we meet there or do it day by day. I can assist in doing that, and organize for example some common workgroups or modus operandi
07:22:20 <sebix[m]> direc85: Currently 11 people confirmed
07:22:53 <b100dian[m]> Me an Mark are round this area 50°04'34.74"N 14°24'11.20"E which is a walk in the Kinsky Garden park away from the venue, Patrick found a hotel more or less in the opposite direction (so N-W) . Maybe we should also post that on the forum
07:23:27 <flypig> Thanks sebix[m]. Is that 9:00 on Friday morning?
07:23:57 <flypig> b100dian[m]: I think that's really helpful info to share on the forum.
07:24:03 <sebix[m]> <flypig> "I'm also interested to hear..." <- to be honest I just looked online whats nearby, available and is not too expensive. I have been there a few times in the past for work but the hotels I used back then are too expensive for non-business trips for me
07:24:14 <sebix[m]> flypig: yes, I think so
07:24:35 <flypig> But it's okay to turn up late (i.e. on Saturday, say)?
07:25:22 <sebix[m]> flypig: There are no obligations :)
07:25:39 <b100dian[m]> I mysekf am only flying on Friday so I'll miss most of the first day. So don't worry:)
07:25:48 <flypig> Okay, that's reassuring to hear :)
07:25:57 <flypig> Thank you!
07:26:27 <flypig> It'sa super-exciting :D
07:26:39 <rubdos[m]> I'm very much looking forward to it :)
07:26:46 * rubdos[m] AFK for 10 mins
07:27:17 <b100dian[m]> #info Vlad G., community
07:27:44 <b100dian[m]> Forgot proper introduction, sorry for being late
07:29:44 <b100dian[m]> We should make an actual plan what to hack on in the following days, the original pist on the firum mentions this Friday setting this more or less in stone
07:30:13 <b100dian[m]> *post in the forum
07:30:18 <flypig> I have to drop off (train arriving at the station). Looking forward to the hackathon and enjoy the sauna today sailors!
07:30:33 <rainemak> I'm coming there as well
07:30:52 <sebix[m]> Topics that I'd really like to see discussed at the hackathon are the issues and problems that we are facing on the larger scale. For example, how can be make SFOS more accessible, more successful and financially sustainable etc.
07:31:04 <direc85> I'm joining too
07:31:28 <sebix[m]> Not only the - very important of course - deep-dive technical hacking.
07:32:12 <b100dian[m]> I agree SFOS is still pretty much unknown.. Needs more coverage:)
07:32:52 <b100dian[m]> @direc85 nice!
07:34:42 <rubdos[m]> sustainability is key indeed.  So many people were looking at me in agony going through my broken Xperia 10, while I'm still waiting for the IV release :'-)
07:35:13 <rubdos[m]> It makes a bad impression, is what I mean
07:36:43 <sebix[m]> Yeah, I have the problem that I can't recommend SFOS to non-technical people even though they are very much interested in privacy/security on their phones and would be actually the perfect target group :/
07:37:02 <sebix[m]> Some weeks ago I had a good exchange with Antti on this
07:38:25 <rainemak> before ExTechOp asks, Xperia 10 IV and 10 V images are on cbeta now
07:38:33 <ExTechOp> \o/
07:38:41 <piggz[m]> general question by me a sailor might have seen before ... as part of an sdk build, some files are generated, but fail to install due to permission error.  within the sdk, it looks like r permission exists, but from the host, files are missing r, only have w permission.  and sailor seen behaviour like this?
07:38:57 <rubdos[m]> I'm basically surrounded by people of the "just use Lineage" type, and I don't blame them.  I'm not sure how we can make a constructive hackathon on that topic though, but it's certainly an interesting topic!
07:39:47 <piggz[m]> nevermind, i think i found it already :)
07:40:16 <dcaliste> Maybe coming back to creating a list of papercut issues ? Defining what is a papercut and what is not is a difficult problem though.
07:40:31 <piggz[m]> or did i....
07:40:38 <ExTechOp> rainemak What does the cbeta phase mean in practical terms, when can we expect a working install to become available to the general public?
07:40:39 <sebix[m]> rubdos[m]: Maybe we can get a common understanding and develop some ideas etc. I guess we can't change the world on a single weekend, but we can make an important step :)
07:41:10 <rubdos[m]> absolutely
07:41:29 <sebix[m]> dcaliste: Yeah, I did like the idea of the papercut list/thread a lot
07:41:44 <rainemak> ExTechOp, the first images are with issues like communicated multiple times. Now we just check that all is good flashing and installation wise then roll out to public for the brave community members
07:42:16 <rubdos[m]> I understood there's very little time between cbeta and EA lately :-)
07:42:49 <rainemak> rubdos[m], I wanted it so :-)
07:42:50 <ExTechOp> Since I've selected the "[×] I am brave and might be an early adopter" I might then see it soon, thanks!
07:42:58 <direc85> For reference, KDE has 15-minute bugs instead of papercuts, but the idea is pretty much the same.
07:43:12 <dcaliste> sebix[m], yeh, that's the list of all the little things that Linux users can easily circumvent via SSH or because they know how it works, but that usual users cannot overcome and which block a larger adoption.
07:43:16 <rainemak> ExTechOp, for this one early adopter is probably more than community members have used to see
07:43:46 <rainemak> direc85, honestly there's no such thing as 15-minute bug ;-)
07:44:47 <dcaliste> There was this epic thread on TJC : https://together.jolla.com/question/217491/wiki-100-paper-cuts-in-sfos-3/
07:44:47 <rainemak> ExTechOp, known issues like Camera disabled, Fingerprint not working on 10 V and Battery status no updating on 10 V to name major ones <= imo
07:44:51 <direc85> rainemak: from certain point of view that is true x)
07:45:13 <direc85> More info about how KDE handles the 15-minute bugs: https://pointieststick.com/2024/02/08/15-minute-bug-initiative-update/
07:45:20 <dcaliste> Some of these little annoyances were squashed. Some are still present and harder to solve.
07:45:22 <rubdos[m]> care to differ, https://gitlab.com/whisperfish/whisperfish/-/merge_requests/629 was a 15 minute fix ;-)
07:46:42 <direc85> rubdos[m]: just noticed that the review took 43 seconds :D
07:47:05 <rubdos[m]> It was a very obvious fix :'-)
07:47:07 <rainemak> rubdos[m], I'm counting whole duration ;-) from finding issues, context switching, fixing it, testing, reviewing, integrating, etc ;-)
07:47:25 <rubdos[m]> testing is overrated! Just hit merge!
07:47:27 <rubdos[m]> (I'm kidding)
07:47:31 <rainemak> sure
07:49:24 <rainemak> I'm steering our operations so that we'd have earlier cbeta releases and from there to public
07:49:36 <rubdos[m]> I'm very happy to read that rainemak.
07:49:48 <rubdos[m]> shortening the cycle will help both Jolla and the community, I'd say
07:50:04 <b100dian[m]> Would there be Xperia 10 4/5 devices from Jolla folks to look at the camera logs just in case..?
07:51:10 <b100dian[m]> Although small chance if mal aready looked:D
07:51:14 <rubdos[m]> I'm bringing my IV, my 10 I, and probably my freerunner.  I can't claim that it'll be running Sailfish by the time I'm there.
07:51:33 <rubdos[m]> But since the turnaround time is so short 🙏
07:55:11 <rainemak> b100dian[m], the whole camera service is disabled as it was hanging / crashing (or something like) and this way preventing suspending => causing heavy battery drain
07:56:01 <rainemak> b100dian[m], we provided fixes but unfortunately we do not new vendor blobs yet
07:56:27 <rainemak> b100dian[m], Camera 2 API is surely something to look
07:56:47 <rainemak> shall we schedule our next meeting
07:57:01 <rainemak> #topic Next meeting time and date (5 mins)
07:57:13 <rainemak> Proposing Thursday 3rd October at 07:00am UTC
07:57:15 <b100dian[m]> ah, so nothing Jolla (or anyone not Sony) can do
07:57:19 <ExTechOp> rainemak Was there any word from Sony about correcting bugs in the binary blobs?
07:57:38 <rainemak> b100dian[m], I don't think so
07:57:49 <rainemak> ExTechOp, no news yet
07:58:04 <ExTechOp> 3rd works for me.
07:58:27 <rainemak> #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 3rd October 2024 at 07:00am UTC: 2024-10-03T0700Z
07:59:11 <ExTechOp> We really need to get more people to attend these meetings. Do they get mirrored onto Matrix?
07:59:19 <b100dian[m]> Yes
07:59:36 <rainemak> that's it then
07:59:38 <rubdos[m]> iCal file that holds the meeting date would still be great
07:59:40 <b100dian[m]> If you've set up an IRC bridge for that yourself
07:59:43 <rubdos[m]> can just dump it in my calendars
07:59:56 <rainemak> #endmeeting