08:00:01 <rainemak> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 13th February 2025
08:00:01 <sailbot> Meeting started Thu Feb 13 08:00:01 2025 UTC. The chair is rainemak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
08:00:01 <sailbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
08:00:01 <rainemak> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:
08:00:01 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-13th-february-2025/21897
08:00:11 <rainemak> I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive.
08:00:11 <rainemak> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info
08:00:29 <ExTechOp> #info Otto Mäkelä, community
08:00:36 <abr> #info Andrew Branson, sailing by
08:00:43 <ViGe> #info Ville Nummela, community
08:01:05 <direc85[m]> #info Matti Viljanen, Jolla
08:01:08 <Crabster> #info Crabster - lurker
08:01:33 <flypig_> #info David Llewellyn-Jones, community (& bad connection)
08:01:36 <rainemak> #info Raine Mäkeläinen, Jolla
08:02:17 <dcaliste> #info Damien Caliste, community
08:02:32 <nephros> #info Peter G. - Community (lurking today)
08:03:11 <pvuorela> #info Pekka Vuorela, Jolla
08:04:04 <rainemak> flypig_, noted bad connection
08:05:23 <rainemak> #topic Community communication tools and needs (10mins -- asked by rainemak)
08:05:29 <rainemak> #info <rainemak> Discuss started at FOSDEM BoF about community communication
08:05:29 <rainemak> #info <rainemak> channels and methods. We should try to find ways how could
08:05:29 <rainemak> #info <rainemak> we communicate better with AsteroidOS and other projects
08:05:29 <rainemak> #info <rainemak> near by. We do have our usual fortnight newsletters and IRC
08:05:29 <rainemak> #info <rainemak> meetings. How should we evolve & improve in this front?
08:06:29 <rainemak> Before I start throwing my ideas / thoughts how do you see this?
08:06:34 <nephros> I was thinking about having a kind of "Community Feature Roadmap" and process.
08:07:00 <nephros> Where *someone" collects Community needs or Projects (or feature requests).
08:07:12 <rainemak> "Community Feature Roadmap" is a good idea
08:07:19 <nephros> Communicates where what work is happening, and where Jolla comes in.
08:07:33 <rainemak> We'll also setup a bugs project to sailfishos github
08:07:45 <nephros> Also have a process where Jolla can say, OK, here we will collaborate.
08:08:23 <rainemak> +1
08:09:08 <dcaliste> From my experience (and pvuorela), we have been recently contacted by people from UBports since they want to use more the upstream QMF. We chatted by visio a bit to setup things and the immediate action was to enable the issue in messagingframework Github repo, so we can exchange on issues and current work.
08:09:31 <rainemak> Should have something easily accessible for discussing between community members. IRC is a heavy tool for many.
08:10:18 <flypig_> Love this idea. I wonder if Sailmates has a role here too? https://sailmates.net/
08:10:22 <rainemak> dcaliste, let's test that with issues repository => I'd rather steer issues in one place and start building that
08:10:33 <nephros> Agreed, IRC is not ideal for "architectural" discussion.
08:10:53 <nephros> Github also has this "Discussions" feature
08:10:59 <abr> good mention for sailmates. i think they should definitely be involved.
08:11:16 <dcaliste> rainemak, indeed, I agree. My post was more about opening common issues and the QMF repo was an example. I was not clear.
08:11:18 <ExTechOp> Some variant of Matrix might work, it can be bridged to the "traditional" itc
08:11:19 <rainemak> nephros, let's investigate discussions feature
08:12:08 <rainemak> How do you feel / see platforms like Slack, Discord, Signal, ...?
08:12:35 <nephros> ... mailing list? ;P
08:12:37 <rainemak> ExTechOp, yeap. Even Matrix directly - we already have a bridge.
08:12:57 <abr> telegram/irc/matrix are very bridgeable and accessible
08:13:10 <ExTechOp> Please let's not get hung up on one commercial setup like Slack or Discord. Signal is based on a nonprofit so it is a bit nicer.
08:13:22 <rainemak> One practical thing could be that we plug in IRC logs to the Salfish OS forum via discourse plugin
08:13:43 <ViGe> Personally I would prefer something that's bridged to irc. I don't use matrix or telegram.
08:14:34 <rainemak> I'd like to see more active discussion which would not be async like this. Maybe once a month some kind of "Ask me anything" session.
08:14:38 <nephros> I would definitely prefer something not "realtime" i.e. not a chet.
08:15:00 <direc85[m]> Slack has threads, and IIRC it's an experimental feature in Matrix as well.
08:15:23 <rainemak> Let's extend this by 5mins as we do not have any other topics
08:16:00 <rainemak> Also something like planet.sailfishos.org could help to bring in projects that are using same components
08:16:06 <abr> Slack doesn't support replies though, and everything being a thread gets very confusing. i really don't get on with slack personally.
08:16:26 <rainemak> I also find Slack threads confusing
08:16:55 <rainemak> Signal is quite popular and we also have a native client
08:16:58 <abr> it's a good idea that whatever is said should be accessible on the web with no need for an account on anything
08:17:34 <dcaliste> planet.sailfishos.org would be nice to know whats going on in the different upstream projects Sailfish are developping.
08:17:45 <ExTechOp> Also, as I said, I'd like it not be attached to one commercial company large enough to have been given a NSL. Both Slack and Discord (being US-based) certainly have been given one.
08:17:56 <rainemak> abr, and for that creating a discourse plugin for IRC would help => making IRC logs searchable through the Forum search field
08:18:14 <dcaliste> Do you have an idea how to populate it ? With flypig or piggz blogs for instance ?
08:18:17 <direc85[m]> abr, +1
08:19:36 <nephros> Could also add some Fedi things like Mastodon (which is easy because RSS).
08:20:17 <rainemak> nephros, could you elaborate?
08:20:26 <rainemak> 5mins more
08:20:57 <rainemak> Sounds that we should not go towards Slack or Discord
08:21:35 <nephros> rainemak: on what? Mastodon?
08:21:55 <rainemak> nephros, do you mean RSS feed from Mastodon?
08:22:36 <rainemak> I somehow find Whisperfish development and bridging that with community somehow fascinating
08:22:38 <nephros> Yes. Invent a hashtag for this "community roadmap" activity and follow/subscribe that. USe the RSS feed to integrate to plante.s.o.
08:22:56 <rainemak> +1
08:23:22 <nephros> Whisperfish AFAIK are using MAtrix heavily.
08:23:23 <rainemak> should be accessible on the web with no need for an account on anything
08:23:49 <rainemak> it's a Signal client
08:24:23 <abr> you could call a network of bridges between different chat services mirroring the same message between different services and the web some sort of 'fishing net' :D
08:25:00 <rainemak> no comments regarding 'Ask me anything'
08:25:02 <abr> rainemak: i think he means they use matrix for their dev chat. all their CI is integrated into it. it's very nice.
08:25:18 <rainemak> abr, ah, I see
08:25:59 <rainemak> I'm really thinking that we should have a "telco line" everynowandthen
08:26:28 <Keto> I see all kinds of solution ideas, but maybe problem being solved is a bit fuzzy?
08:26:29 <rainemak> whatever that "telco line" means
08:27:13 <rainemak> Keto, this was raised at FOSDEM. Let's AsteroidOS devs have hard times to follow what's going on
08:27:38 <rainemak> And I do want to see open discussion before we implement something
08:27:45 <direc85[m]> We have a Matrix channel where we have Whisperfish devs but also people who develop other clients using libsignal-service-rs as well. It's worked quite well I'd say. And the CI integration is nice (but sometimes it get a little noisy).
08:28:04 <abr> it looks great
08:28:40 <flypig_> Agreed, it does look nice from the outside!
08:28:42 <rainemak> planet.sailfishos.org like an idea was also raised during FOSDEM BoF
08:29:15 <rainemak> and IRC is not really good for new comers
08:29:25 <flypig_> What material would be included in planet.sailfishos.org? It sounds like a nice idea to pull things all to one place, but if I understand correctly it's not for discussion, more for news?
08:29:56 <rainemak> not for discussion, true
08:30:42 <rainemak> there's plenty of ideas already. let's digest these and conclude to the 13th IRC meeting forum topic.
08:31:05 <rainemak> if no objections, let's move forward
08:31:16 <rainemak> #topic Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla)
08:32:05 <rainemak> Anybody, anything
08:32:14 <rubdos[m]> Bit late to the party, but +1 on Matrix + IRC bridge
08:32:23 <rubdos[m]> #info Ruben De Smet, community
08:33:38 <rainemak> rubdos[m], np.
08:34:09 <rubdos[m]> Do we have a "community wiki"? I had a support question for Whisperfish (in German, had to dust off my language skills), and that question was raised
08:34:36 <rubdos[m]> I asked to execute rm  -rf .local/share/.../whisperfish, and the person said they had to enable dev mode and don't know how to do it
08:34:52 <rainemak> docs.sailfishos.org kind of is that
08:35:20 <rainemak> not necessarily wiki like easy to edit but not too difficult either
08:35:25 <rubdos[m]> and afaik there's not really a place that documents how to get those things going for non-linux people
08:35:50 <rainemak> docs.sailfishos.org as well
08:36:00 <direc85[m]> There's https://sailfishos.wiki/ as well
08:36:18 <rubdos[m]> direc85[m]: that looks more in the spirit of what I'm after
08:36:28 <rubdos[m]> (sorry, I thought that still belonged to the previous topic)
08:37:04 <rainemak> #topic General discussion (10 mins)
08:37:16 <rainemak> ^ let's make it belong to the general discussion
08:37:30 <rubdos[m]> :)
08:37:36 <rubdos[m]> Let me quickly get that mail
08:37:42 <ExTechOp> So, still nothing new from Sony about the Xperia 10V firmware update?
08:37:55 <abr> I didn't know about that other wiki. nice!
08:38:17 <ViGe> rubdos[m]: https://docs.sailfishos.org/Support/Help_Articles/ contains quite a lot of information aimed at non-linux people
08:38:24 <rainemak> ExTechOp, unfortunately not
08:38:35 <rubdos[m]> > To enter the code provided in the link, I'll probably have to start developer mode to be able to use the terminal. This is all new to me, but I'll give it a try. Do you have to register for developer mode? Lots of questions, I know. Is there a basic wiki on how to use this function? Then I don't have to bother you any more... :0)
08:38:47 <ViGe> rubdos[m]: like https://docs.sailfishos.org/Support/Help_Articles/Enabling_Developer_Mode/
08:38:52 <rubdos[m]> ViGe: Any chance we can start localizing these?
08:39:18 <rubdos[m]> Given that I get support questions in German (and I answer in German; had the same before in French and Dutch), it'd be really neat to have localized docs for those things.
08:41:29 <ExTechOp> rainemak Would it be possible to remind them that the whole release is pretty much stuck at this point unless they do something?
08:41:34 <ViGe> rubdos[m]: I'm afraid just-the-docs doesn't support localization, at least not out of the box. But it looks like people have created all sorts of workarounds, so it might be possible: https://github.com/just-the-docs/just-the-docs/issues/59
08:43:52 <rubdos[m]> I was also thinking that a community wiki could involve a listing of popular apps (of course, one that mentions Whisperfish 😉), and some general "how to get started", in a broader sense than a UI tutorial. A bit more "opinionated", let's say. But that's just me having random ideas before the caffeïne starts kicking in today
08:45:48 <rubdos[m]> ViGe that sounds interesting indeed!
08:46:28 <rubdos[m]> I think I'd be after something slightly less formal. A lot of information exists on the forum, but that lacks some structure that'd be necessary for these sort of users.
08:46:34 <rubdos[m]> Anyway, just my random thoughts.
08:46:50 <rainemak> rubdos[m], agree on that
08:47:17 <rainemak> and forum is hard to make (or even impossible) structured
08:47:49 <ViGe> so, a bit more structure than what's on the forum, and a bit less formal than docs.sailfishos.org. A middle ground so to speak.
08:48:10 <rainemak> ViGe, nicely summarized
08:48:38 <ExTechOp> I concur, it would be nice if the information about how to install SFOS on each hardware could be structured (with of course links back to "official" pages) in a format where one could compare difficulty and so on.
08:48:41 <rubdos[m]> yes please 🙏
08:48:58 <rubdos[m]> Yes, that would fit perfectly in such a space ExTechOp
08:49:02 <ExTechOp> It will of course require continual maintenance and update
08:49:22 <rubdos[m]> Which is probably exactly why it currently doesn't exist :D
08:50:56 <rainemak> ExTechOp, to clarify, are you referring to existing hardware adaptations or "install" == creating an adaptation
08:51:35 <rainemak> are good to schedule the next IRC meeting
08:51:52 <rainemak> #topic Next meeting time and date (2 mins)
08:51:58 <rainemak> Proposing Thursday 27th February at 08:00am UTC
08:52:04 <ExTechOp> Mostly existing adaptations, but of course good documentation like this could lower the threshold for implementing new ones.
08:52:11 <ExTechOp> Works4me.
08:54:13 <ExTechOp> No objections, anyone?
08:54:27 <rainemak> Going once...
08:54:33 <rainemak> Going twice...
08:54:41 <rainemak> #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 27th February 2025 at 08:00am UTC: 2025-02-27T0800Z
08:54:51 <rainemak> #endmeeting