07:00:01 <rainemak> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 10th April 2025
07:00:01 <sailbot> Meeting started Thu Apr 10 07:00:01 2025 UTC. The chair is rainemak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
07:00:01 <sailbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
07:00:10 <rainemak> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:
07:00:10 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-10th-april-2025/22780
07:00:10 <rainemak> I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive.
07:00:10 <rainemak> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info
07:00:21 <ExTechOp> #info Otto Mäkelä, community
07:00:24 <rainemak> #info Raine Mäkeläinen, Jolla
07:01:00 <pvuorela> #info Pekka Vuorela, Jolla
07:01:04 <dodoradio[m]> #info Arseniy Movshev, Community/AsteroidOS
07:01:28 <flypig-> #info David Llewellyn-Jones, community (+ poor connection)
07:03:45 <flypig-> Nice to see you Arseniy!
07:03:55 <flypig-> (and of course everyone else)
07:04:02 <rainemak> I was about to say the same :-)
07:04:15 <flypig-> :D
07:04:15 <rainemak> always nice to see new nicknames
07:04:24 <ViGe> #info Ville Nummela - community
07:04:45 <rainemak> We have two topics today. First one is rather long. Thus, will link it to the forum.
07:05:11 <rainemak> let's get going
07:05:13 <rainemak> #topic How to make Carrier VoLTE config files? (15 mins -- asked by Crun)
07:05:23 <rainemak> #info <Crun> X10III appears to need a signed config file for each carrier to use
07:05:23 <rainemak> #info <Crun> VoLTE and VoWifi.
07:05:23 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-10th-april-2025/22780/2
07:05:46 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> This is a very complex and broad question including
07:05:46 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> multiple questions in one. Let us try to cover some of them or
07:05:47 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> some parts of them. Sony's comment was following:
07:05:48 <rainemak> #link https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/bug_tracker/issues/859#issuecomment-2668411479
07:05:50 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Then we have VoLTE provider support topic at forum.
07:05:52 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/volte-provider-support/11501
07:05:54 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Here's more background information for hacking. Some of you have
07:05:56 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> successfully enabled VoLTE on your own.
07:05:58 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/volte-on-the-xperia-10-ii-filling-in-the-gaps/12322
07:06:00 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Let's try to keep discussion within the topics that we already have
07:06:02 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> on the forum. Thanks.
07:07:15 <rainemak> This is really on the gray area I'd say.
07:08:15 <flypig-> I guess the main issue here is the signing? If they have to be signed, it may be a dead end? But that's not been required for other carriers I think?
07:08:40 <rainemak> When it comes to NZ or AU, we checked that Jolla C2 should work there 4G band point of view to some degree.
07:08:56 <rainemak> C2 = { 1, 3, 7, 20}   Australia = {  1, 3, 5, 7, 8, 28,  }   New Zealand = { 1, 3, 7, 28 }
07:09:14 <flypig-> Nice.
07:09:45 <rainemak> Not necessary working everywhere. Also note worthy that both AU and NZ are big countries.
07:10:11 <rainemak> We do not have tools for signing.
07:13:20 <rainemak> But like that hacking topic states there are ways to use existing confs. I recall that somebody got VoLTE working in US with DE confs -- afair it was same operator.
07:16:21 <rainemak> I expected that this topic would have rendered a good amount of discussion.
07:17:03 <flypig-> There's quite a lot of background material on the forum! (my bad for not having read it in advance).
07:17:22 <rainemak> you also wrote some :-)
07:17:32 <flypig-> Haha. That was a long time ago now!
07:17:54 <flypig-> But I don't see why the issue of signing arose. This doesn't seem to be mentioned by the carrier.
07:20:46 <rainemak> flypig-, same here. I don't even know whether those need to signed or not.
07:21:11 <rainemak> maybe we just move ahead
07:21:22 <rainemak> #topic open sourcing roadmap (10 mins -- asked by dodoradio)
07:21:28 <rainemak> #info <dodoradio> at FOSDEM in early February, there was discussion of Jolla
07:21:28 <rainemak> #info <dodoradio> moving forward with opening up more components, and about
07:21:28 <rainemak> #info <dodoradio> working with the community to help this happen. I feel it would
07:21:29 <rainemak> #info <dodoradio> be helpful to release some sort of roadmap, at least laying out
07:21:29 <rainemak> #info <dodoradio> which components are desirable to open up, and where the
07:21:29 <rainemak> #info <dodoradio> community can help.
07:21:34 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> nephros piggybacking the question:
07:21:34 <rainemak> #info <nephros> What are roadblocks to open-sourcing said components? What needs
07:21:35 <rainemak> #info <nephros> to happen so these roadblocks go away?
07:22:30 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Yes, definitely roadmap would be good. We do need an interactive
07:22:31 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> tool so that we can actually use roadmap as a planning tool.
07:22:31 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> We're thinking to add roadmap to github project. In the past we have
07:22:31 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> learnt that planning tools like roadmaps are easily misinterpreted
07:22:31 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> if they are static files like pictures or pdfs.
07:22:46 <rainemak> There are multiple things to be sorted out as nephros expected. As I'm
07:22:46 <rainemak> orchestrating a lot things internally I'm also a roadblock on my own. Further,
07:22:46 <rainemak> there are things like company board level directions or contribution license
07:22:47 <rainemak> agreement (CLA) that needs to be sorted out.
07:24:06 <rainemak> Maybe to add here, I'd like to see the roadmap also more like a transparent tool for the community on what we're working on
07:24:48 <dodoradio[m]> transparency seems to be a big common issue with several [ex]community members I've talked to
07:24:56 <rainemak> you need know to read roadmap item from the fortnight newsletter's repository roundup
07:25:10 <rainemak> you need now to read roadmap item from the fortnight newsletter's repository roundup
07:27:19 <rainemak> Surely, there needs to be balance as we're also a company and we cannot reveal everything. As an example, I would not see problematic to have core package update plan in a public roadmap.
07:27:37 <flypig-> It would be great to have an always-updated roadmap to see progress, but apart from misinterpretation, another downside is that it would require effort that might otherwise go towards development.
07:27:53 <rainemak> that's true as well
07:28:17 <dcaliste> About the relicencing blockers, like the ones you mentioned, do you estimate that it's going on, or is it stuck at the moment by a lack of time ?
07:28:27 <rainemak> definitely we should not duplicate things
07:28:36 <dodoradio[m]> the repository roundup (which I've skimmed from the last few weeks) does seem useful
07:28:39 <dodoradio[m]> however, I would push for communication about longer-term plans
07:29:03 <dodoradio[m]> what components does jolla intend to open source?
07:29:34 <flypig-> You definitely get an idea about direction from the repository roadmap, but I agree it maybe doesn't always show the bigger picture.
07:30:15 <flypig-> Props to dcaliste for his amazing work on it.
07:31:12 <dodoradio[m]> and what kind of terms can we expect to see in the contributors' licence agreements?
07:31:13 <rainemak> dodoradio[m], I'd rather not yet open that. We have drafted now multiple phases but more on that later.
07:31:52 <dcaliste> Thank you flypig. But I agree that it's often too centred on commits / PR. I try to highlights some in a introduction, but I often lack time to do it properly…
07:32:31 <flypig-> dcaliste, I think it's also just not possible to divine everything from the pubic info!
07:32:33 <dodoradio[m]> I would strongly encourage jolla to publish something about these upcoming open-sourcing processes
07:32:41 <rainemak> dodoradio[m], we don't have time and luxury to start inventing something new. Thus, I'm expecting it to be something from tools out there and/or mixture of our existing CLAs
07:32:45 <dodoradio[m]> otherwise there is a risk that the community just won't be able to support the code when it lands
07:32:50 <rainemak> dcaliste, mostly lack of time
07:33:27 <rainemak> dcaliste, props from the reposity round +1
07:34:06 <rainemak> we could occasionally have also roadmap discussion as community meeting topic
07:34:34 <rainemak> ^ what has changes, what new as appeared, what has gotten dropped / postponed, and so on
07:34:56 <dcaliste> rainemak, thanks for your answer. I can understand that it's not a priority as in medium term, it's not helping with bug fixes (on other parts) and / or development.
07:37:23 <rainemak> should be we once a month in community meeting a fix roadmap discussion? even if we would not have roadmap on github
07:37:28 <piggz[m]> Would need an automatic entry for discussion on qt upgrade :D
07:37:33 <dodoradio[m]> rainemak thank you
07:38:04 <dodoradio[m]> reading the irc logs from past few weeks, I also saw there was discussion of 'communication platforms for collaboration with other projects' - really, I think the current github issues + forum + community meeting setup is technically adequate for projects like asteroidos to engage
07:38:20 <rainemak> s/should be we once a month in community meeting a fix roadmap discussion?/should be we once a month in community meeting have a fixed roadmap discussion?/
07:39:05 <rainemak> dodoradio[m], good to hear that
07:39:23 <rainemak> we're a bit overtime on the topic
07:39:52 <rainemak> we can certainly continue this discussion later on
07:40:02 <rainemak> #topic Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla)
07:40:18 <dcaliste> rainemak, that could be nice. It also match with a demand from nephros, see https://github.com/sailfishos-chum/main/issues/118
07:43:48 <rainemak> dcaliste, we can continue on the general discussion :-)
07:44:39 <dcaliste> Yes, sure, sorry.
07:44:50 <rainemak> no worry
07:45:01 <rainemak> #topic General discussion (10 mins)
07:45:55 <ExTechOp> Are there any developments you would like the community to be aware of?
07:48:36 <piggz[m]> Any news on sb2/obs fixes for qt6?
07:49:39 <rainemak> ExTechOp, maybe somebody is interest about systemd-resolved <- that will be enabled in next bigger upgrade
07:49:55 <rainemak> piggz[m], that's the build hang, right?
07:51:46 <piggz[m]> The permission issues on files generated in the build
07:51:47 <rainemak> if that is the same that we are seeing with gecko then we may have some help for those... oddly, it looks that with combination of new make and python gecko has had steady builds
07:52:11 <piggz[m]> Files have 000 perm iirc
07:53:08 <piggz[m]> I know mal was working on something maybe related a few weeks ago
07:53:25 <Keto> not sure but this might be related to the file permission issues https://github.com/sailfishos/scratchbox2/pull/37
07:53:31 <rainemak> not sure if I'm talking about the same... but we did fix few spec files regarding perms
07:54:08 <piggz[m]> This seemed more like an sb2 aarch64 specific syscall issue
07:55:16 <piggz[m]> Keto id certainly like to test that on c-obs
07:56:00 <rainemak> and bjorn has been working on syscall forwarding...
07:56:17 <rainemak> let's start wrapping up
07:56:31 <rainemak> #topic Next meeting time and date (2 mins)
07:56:47 <rainemak> Proposing Thursday 24th April at 07:00am UTC
07:57:15 <ExTechOp> Works4me
07:58:19 <rainemak> settled
07:58:23 <rainemak> #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 24th April 2025 at 07:00am UTC: 2025-04-24T0700Z
07:58:37 <rainemak> #endmeeting