07:00:08 <rainemak> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 24th April 2025
07:00:08 <sailbot> Meeting started Thu Apr 24 07:00:08 2025 UTC. The chair is rainemak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
07:00:08 <sailbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
07:00:16 <rainemak> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:
07:00:16 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-24th-april-2025/22836
07:00:16 <rainemak> I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive.
07:00:16 <rainemak> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info
07:00:25 <rainemak> Good morning everyone!
07:00:29 <rainemak> Good morning ExTechOp
07:00:31 <ExTechOp> #info Otto Mäkelä, community
07:00:35 <pherjung[m]> Hi!
07:00:38 <rainemak> #info Raine Mäkeläinen, Jolla
07:00:40 <tuplasuhveli[m]> #info tuplasuhveli, community
07:00:43 <rainemak> welcome pherjung[m]
07:00:47 <tuplasuhveli[m]> Good morning everybody 8)
07:00:53 <rainemak> welcome tuplasuhveli[m]
07:02:28 <rainemak> We have four topics and few bonus questions from the meeting topic comments. Let's try to stick with the reserved time slots.
07:04:26 <pvuorela> #info Pekka Vuorela, Jolla
07:05:06 <rainemak> #topic Sailfish OS roadmap checkpoint (15 mins -- rainemak)
07:05:19 <rainemak> #info <rainemak> As discussed 10th April on our community meeting let’s have a
07:05:20 <rainemak> #info <rainemak> roadmap checkpoint / update. This might well be just a textual
07:05:20 <rainemak> #info <rainemak> update.
07:06:13 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Textual update it is. Following bigger update items that we have on
07:06:13 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> the roadmap. Good part of these will likely land to Sailfish OS 5.1.
07:06:13 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Items are not in priority order.
07:06:13 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> glibc
07:06:13 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> systemd
07:06:15 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> lvm
07:06:16 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> pulseaudio
07:06:18 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> python
07:06:20 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> rpm
07:06:22 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> openssl
07:06:26 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> gcc
07:06:27 <pherjung[m]> #info pherjung, community
07:06:28 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> and tons of other updates.
07:07:23 <rainemak> Some of these items are closer and the others. Actually, glibc got integrated last week. Then there are other bigger things like esr102.
07:08:01 <tuplasuhveli[m]> Ooh, ESR102 sounds good!
07:08:09 <rainemak> Above is here to give you more visibility regarding what we have on the table
07:09:47 <rainemak> esr102 is big one, let's first get all related repositories visible
07:10:24 <rainemak> Please bare in mind that all items listed above will not land to Sailfish OS 5.1.
07:11:20 <rainemak> Plan/Expectation is that we have one or two 5.0 updates still before 5.1.
07:14:37 <rainemak> I should actually say, regarding esr102 that related repositories & branches visible
07:16:26 <pherjung[m]> Really nice! And do you have any news related to open-sourcing parts?
07:16:38 <flypig-> #info David Llewellyn-Jones, community + late (sorry!)
07:16:39 <rainemak> Not yet on that.
07:16:45 <rainemak> flypig-, welcome
07:19:33 <rainemak> let's move on
07:19:41 <flypig-> I'm looking forward to seeing esr102 land in gecko-dev; I've heard good things :)
07:19:58 <rainemak> +1
07:20:04 <rainemak> #topic New vendor blobs available from Sony (5 mins -- asked by cquence)
07:20:10 <rainemak> #info <cquence> any timeline of when can we get feedback for those blobs? (i.e. do
07:20:10 <rainemak> #info <cquence> they fix some/all of the existing 10IV/V problems).
07:20:23 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> These new blobs require work on NFC, GPS, sensors and VoLTE at least.
07:20:23 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> With these new blobs, we need to adapt NFC, GPS, sensors and VoLTE
07:20:23 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> from HIDL to AIDL. So getting those working will require time and
07:20:23 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> development efforts. Flypig wrote back in August 2021 a nice summary
07:20:23 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> about libgbinder that opens up also HIDL and AIDL.
07:20:25 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sailfish-community-news-12th-august-libgbinder-4-2-0-l10n/7582#a-detailed-look-at-driver-access-through-libgbinder-2
07:21:58 <flypig-> Just to say, krnlyng deserves credit for all of the good bits in that libgbinder summary.
07:22:38 <flypig-> Is there a link anywhere to the announcement about the new blobs from Sony?
07:23:06 <flypig-> This one maybe? https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/new-binaries-blobs-for-xperia-v-and-iv-what-is-happening-actually/22584
07:23:07 <rainemak> Announcement from us or Sony
07:23:15 <flypig-> From Sony.
07:23:36 <flypig-> I'm just being curious about it.
07:23:49 <rainemak> https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sailfish-community-news-3rd-april-2025-harbour/22658
07:24:27 <flypig-> Perfect; thank you!
07:25:41 <rainemak> Moving on
07:25:42 <rainemak> #topic Make sfdk manual pages available online (5 mins -- asked by Managor)
07:25:48 <rainemak> #info <Managor> For ease of access reasons it would be good if all of the command
07:25:48 <rainemak> #info <Managor> line options were listed somewhere.
07:25:53 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> We understand reasoning that you have here. This kind of feature
07:25:54 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> requests shall be looked also from maintenance point of view.
07:25:54 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Currently you can find all commands with different --help commands.
07:28:48 <ExTechOp> Obviously, the minimal information in --help (mostly listing what options are available) does not really replace a proper manual page where there usually is a larger explanation of why one would need to use each of the options.
07:30:20 <rainemak> let's move to the next topic
07:30:28 <rainemak> #topic AppSupport without libhybris (15mins -- asked by affe_null)
07:30:38 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> The AppSupport packages currently provided to Sailfish OS users
07:30:38 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> (at least on the C2) rely on an Android HAL being present in /
07:30:38 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> vendor. Android vendor HALs can be very messy, and the time spent
07:30:38 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> on maintaining compability with them might be better spent on
07:30:38 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> writing upstreamable kernel drivers for the devices. This is
07:30:39 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> hopefully going to become easier with time as more support for
07:30:41 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> major SoC families lands in upstream Linux. Would Jolla be able
07:30:43 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> to provide AppSupport packages for ports that are not based on
07:30:45 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> Android? How much work would that need? I am not asking about
07:30:47 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> AppSupport for community ports, this is a question about the
07:30:49 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> feasibility of an official port without libhybris.
07:30:51 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> AppSupport itself does not depend on hal. For example, our collegues
07:30:55 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> at Seafarix run AppSupport on Rpi5 with Ubuntu and Mesa drivers among
07:30:57 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> other things. If there would be hw accelerated mesa for phone devices
07:30:59 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> that could be also used in phone in future. However as we know, this
07:31:01 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> is more easily said than done in mobile soc side.
07:37:00 <flypig-> Does this also mean that -- more generally -- there's no benefit to upstreaming kernel driver changes in relation to AppSupport?
07:38:13 <flypig-> I suppose, as you say, it's things like the Mesa drivers that are important.
07:39:56 <rainemak> yeapp
07:44:32 <rainemak> I guess this is covered
07:44:34 <rainemak> #topic Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla)
07:45:29 <tuplasuhveli[m]> The latest changelog mentions the ability to add reboot option on topmenu. However, I still find holding down the lock button to be the only way to achieve this. I couldn't find any related toggles in Settings -> Topmenu. Am I missing something?
07:46:40 <flypig-> There's an option in Developer tools. I'm not sure whether you need Developer Mode enabled for that?
07:47:09 <flypig-> (if I'm understanding correctly)
07:48:51 <rainemak> hey, let's move to generic...
07:49:00 <AffeNull[m]> Sorry I'm late, I misread the time
07:49:04 <rainemak> #topic General discussion (8 mins)
07:49:07 <rainemak> AffeNull[m], no worry
07:49:36 <flypig-> @tuplasuhveli[m], I suppose you mean this item from the changelog?
07:49:38 <rainemak> tuplasuhveli[m], that could also be mind2 related note which is missing mind2 context
07:49:38 <flypig-> - [lipstick-jolla] Allow to enable both reboot and lock options on topmenu.
07:49:40 <Nico> This meeting timeslot nowadays is exactly in the middle of one of my work meetings, so sadly I can mostly only follow by reading :)
07:50:15 <Nico> But gcc on the roadmap sounds great!
07:50:25 <dodoradio[m]> sorry I wasn't able to join at the beginning
07:50:46 <Nico> (I somehow always depend on some newer features and then need to backport for my packages... :D)
07:50:51 <ExTechOp> Indeed, the upgrade path looks promising.
07:51:00 <dodoradio[m]> rainemak the roadmap looks excellent! I hope this stays a consistent part of meetings
07:51:13 <rainemak> dodoradio[m], thanks
07:51:43 <rainemak> tuplasuhveli[m], it's actually new experimental dconf
07:51:59 <rainemak> mankir asked as a comment about how long xa2 will be supported?
07:51:59 <rainemak> Usual it is about kernel version requirements that triggering stopping of a support for an older device.
07:52:11 <tuplasuhveli[m]> Okay, I saw it mentioned in the mind2 segment and also in lipstick segment.
07:52:22 <dcaliste> Sorry, coming late on the topic, about opened PR, I've noticed some PR by Nephros in spectacle and Perl. In case you don't know about them yet...
07:52:43 <AffeNull[m]> I've also opened a new PR: https://github.com/sailfishos/lipstick/pull/66
07:53:32 <rainemak> dcaliste, noted that
07:53:33 <rainemak> Then there were comments about Mozilla Location Service (MLS) in community meeting topic and how to replace that. Before we noticed those comments, we actually contacted beaconDB maintainer exactly for the very same reasons. Surely, we'd like to see A-GPS alive as well.
07:53:43 <ExTechOp> rainemak Looking at https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sailfish-community-news-3rd-april-2025-harbour/22658 it seems updating the Android blobs is a bit of an experimental prospect,
07:53:43 <ExTechOp> any ideas what the timing would be for it to become a bit more "mainstream", would it just be included in a SFOS update?
07:54:37 <rainemak> ExTechOp, no idea... looks to be months away
07:54:44 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-24th-april-2025/22836/11
07:54:46 <flypig-> I read that beaconDB provides a MLS API; does it look like it might be quite straightforward to integrate?
07:56:36 <rainemak> flypig-, yes... mal actually already integrated it (made url configurable) but there are some issues in geoclue hybris/binder plugin with the cell tower reporting
07:57:05 <rainemak> I would expect to have it by Sailfish OS 5.1.
07:57:10 <flypig-> Nice; that's really exciting. It'd be a great feature.
07:57:26 <rainemak> we're running out of time
07:57:42 <flypig-> There was an great talk at FOSDEM about OpenAGPS, which looks interesting, but looks more experimental than beaconDB (so I'm not suggesting it as an alternative right now, just something to keep an eye on maybe).
07:57:48 <flypig-> https://openagps.net/
07:57:51 <flypig-> https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-6739-openagps-open-source-gnss-assistance/
07:58:02 <rainemak> #link https://openagps.net/
07:58:09 <rainemak> thanks flypig-
07:58:21 <rainemak> let's schedule next meeting
07:58:25 <rainemak> #topic Next meeting time and date (2 mins)
07:58:34 <rainemak> Proposing Thursday 8th May at 07:00am UTC
07:59:22 <rainemak> going once
07:59:24 <ExTechOp> ✅
07:59:39 <flypig-> ✅+1
07:59:49 <rainemak> #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 8th May 2025 at 07:00am UTC: 2025-05-08T0700Z
08:00:32 <rainemak> thank you everybody! great meeting! we managed to squeeze in many topics and some adhoc comments from the meeting topic
08:00:50 <Nico> Thank you for your time :)
08:00:54 <Nico> (And answers)
08:01:10 <ExTechOp> Thanks everyone!
08:01:15 <iolala> wait, it's over?
08:01:22 <flypig-> Thanks rainemak and all!
08:01:37 <iolala> my calendar said it starts now 😂
08:01:45 <ExTechOp> Summer time?
08:01:47 <tuplasuhveli[m]> Thank you!
08:02:03 <dcaliste> Thank you, and thanks for the roadmap also ;)
08:02:07 <dodoradio[m]> thank you!
08:02:24 <iolala> there's something wrong with the calendar invite from the forum post that announced the meeting
08:02:46 <iolala> it set the wrong time in the calendar
08:02:46 <rainemak_> #endmeeting
08:04:22 <dcaliste> iolala, I agree. Indeed, the time is set to 8.00 UTC, while it should be 7.00 UTC...
08:05:24 <ExTechOp> rainemak remember to update the /topic
08:05:44 <rainemak> #endmeeting