07:00:02 <rainemak> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 5th June 2025
07:00:02 <sailbot> Meeting started Thu Jun  5 07:00:02 2025 UTC. The chair is rainemak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
07:00:02 <sailbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
07:00:12 <rainemak> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:
07:00:13 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-5th-june-2025/23265
07:00:13 <rainemak> I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive.
07:00:13 <rainemak> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info
07:00:25 <rainemak> #info Raine Mäkeläinen, Jolla
07:00:50 <ExTechOp> #info Otto Mäkelä, community
07:01:18 <yusssufff> #info Yusssufff, community
07:01:29 <direc85[m]> #info Matti Viljanen, Jolla
07:04:21 <rainemak> We have two topics today. Next roadmap checkpoint will be in two weeks (19th June). I'm reserving today 10mins for the next meeting scheduling so that we have time to discuss there.
07:04:34 <flypig> #info David Llewellyn-Jones, community
07:04:45 <rainemak> hi flypig
07:04:51 <flypig> Hello!
07:05:00 <rainemak> let's get going
07:05:05 <rainemak> #topic State of jack audio with latest Sony binaries / blobs v6a (Xperia IV and V) (5 mins -- yusssufff)
07:05:10 <rainemak> #info <yusssufff> Wishing to know if with latest blobs v6a the audio jack is
07:05:10 <rainemak> #info <yusssufff> now working (camera works as already shared in latest meeting)
07:05:28 <rainemak> <Jolla> Getting audio jack working should not have anything to do with the blobs.
07:05:28 <rainemak> <Jolla> It should be about Android audio configuration xml. We had a semi
07:05:28 <rainemak> <Jolla> well-working version of audio routing changes whilst back but we have not
07:05:28 <rainemak> <Jolla> had time to finalize it.
07:07:25 <yusssufff> Okay! thanks for the enlightenment.
07:09:28 <rainemak> audio routing things make it also harder to move away from pulseaudio towards pipewire
07:10:11 <rainemak> next topic
07:10:12 <rainemak> #topic Releasing licence for Xperia V and IV before VoLTE work is ironed? (5mins -- yusssufff)
07:10:21 <rainemak> #info <yusssufff> In the May 8 community meeting, it was answered to the question
07:10:21 <rainemak> #info <yusssufff> “Is there any progress on the Sony Xperia 10V firmware / binary
07:10:21 <rainemak> #info <yusssufff> blobs update?” that “07:16:43 <rainemak> ExTechOp, Not too much
07:10:21 <rainemak> #info <yusssufff> to say. With newest blobs camera works but there are still work
07:10:21 <rainemak> #info <yusssufff> needed with GPS, NFC, sensors and VoLTE... And VoLTE is the
07:10:23 <rainemak> #info <yusssufff> tricky one. This due to that HIDL ↔ AIDL changes that happened #info <yusssufff> same time.”
07:10:37 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> What kind of license you're expecting? If you're thinking about
07:10:37 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> perpetual (one time fee license), let's see what makes sense. That
07:10:37 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> said, we have enabled AppSupport already for Xperia 10 IV and 10 V.
07:10:37 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> To compensate the delays, we offer to discount the subsription fees
07:10:37 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> for the first 6 months for any orders made by end of June.
07:10:39 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Using device without VoLTE is not too feasible.
07:10:57 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/enabling-appsupport-for-sony-xperia-10-iv-and-10-v/22541
07:11:59 <yusssufff> Okay, yes when speaking of "licence", i meant like non beta version of Sailfish for V and IV
07:12:14 <rainemak> There will be tons of complains regarding quality if we'd have license available without VoLTE
07:13:23 <rainemak> If we would not have GPS, NFC, sensors and VoLTE, it's pretty much beta I think
07:13:54 <rainemak> yusssufff, from your point of view what would be the trigger to move out of beta?
07:15:07 <rainemak> It's the same Sailfish OS version that we available for all supported devices (5.0.0.67).
07:15:26 <rainemak> extending topic by 5mins
07:16:12 <rainemak> It's the same Sailfish OS version that we have available for all supported devices (5.0.0.67).
07:16:30 <yusssufff> Hum out of beta would mean for me functionning Audio Jack, Camera, and ironned issues such as the "known issues" published for Xperia V and IV in latest release notes of sailfish 5 (similar to the first betas on sailfish 4 actually for those models..)
07:16:42 <ExTechOp> Can you detail a bit what progress HAS been made on this project (Sony Xperia 10IV and 10V)?
07:18:21 <rainemak> yusssufff, those API/ABI breaks that were there between blob updates require work. Let's see how it turns out to be.
07:18:22 <yusssufff> issues (but you know them) where such (and kind of justified beta i guess?):      Camera is disabled     Fingerprint detection does not work on Xperia 10 V; hence removed from the UI     Battery status doesn’t update (it does by restarting the phone) on Xperia 10 V     eSIM support is not yet implemented; hence the eSIM slot is disabled     Avoid using the Flight mode as the phone loses the SIM card     Restarting the phone may last up to
07:19:16 <rainemak> ExTechOp, not much lately but it's still there
07:19:45 <rainemak> and July probably even calmer due to summer time
07:19:46 <yusssufff> rainemak Okay sure, good work then :). I wondered just if the VoLTE was the one that was the most time consuming, if that could b edelayed to a later fix.
07:20:24 <yusssufff> But i understand the wish to avoid complains from the community if VoLTE isnt released at the same time
07:20:30 <flypig> It sounds like you were thinking about prioritisation yusssufff?
07:20:36 <rainemak> yusssufff, ExTechOp : how this gave a bit better understanding of the state
07:20:52 <yusssufff> Yes flypig
07:21:00 <rainemak> yusssufff, ExTechOp : hope this gave a bit better understanding of the state
07:21:33 <rainemak> eSIM is not implement in Sailfish OS -> surely won't be implemented soon
07:22:08 <flypig> I agree yusssufff, if there's low-hanging fruit, I'd be happy to see progress on those too (but I don't know if these other aspects actually are low hanging!)
07:22:15 <ExTechOp> Is there even an outline of a schedule?
07:22:54 <yusssufff> Yep sure, esim is irrelevant... But a first release with Camera+Audio Jack+GPs+Batterystatus could be very usable i would have personally tought VoLTE/NFC could wait for later fix...
07:23:22 <rainemak> extending another 5mins
07:23:31 <rainemak> two mins left
07:24:02 <rainemak> yusssufff, noted... then the battery draining is one which you did not mention
07:24:33 <yusssufff> yes and the airplane mode loosing simcard.
07:25:02 <rainemak> yusssufff, and there is good amount of other things
07:25:18 <yusssufff> Those 'basic' functions would make a nice working device already, enough to wait few more month for NFC and VolTE (for my opinion)
07:25:43 <rainemak> yusssufff, we should be able to live with some airplane mode issues... as long as those are recoverable
07:26:06 <rainemak> yusssufff, in Finland VoLTE starts to be must have
07:26:38 <yusssufff> Yeah i know, especially with Elisa...
07:26:59 <rainemak> these kind of things are matter of prioritization
07:27:10 <rainemak> yusssufff, also with Telia
07:27:15 <yusssufff> But overall my comment was to propose that maybe a "second beta" could be nice lets say, with some little improovements, if the non beta seems to arrive after summer...
07:27:34 <direc85[m]> there's no 3G at all in Finland any more
07:28:30 <yusssufff> I still have some 3G with DNA in lapland...But maybe irrelevant to the discussion :)
07:28:52 <rainemak> yusssufff, we're hearing you. Thank you for your input.
07:29:01 <rainemak> and surely others as well
07:29:07 <yusssufff> Welcome! Thanks for the hard work!
07:29:17 <rainemak> #topic Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla)
07:29:37 <rainemak> I'm not seeing dcaliste
07:29:42 <rainemak> I don't have any
07:30:59 <rainemak> anybody else any PRs that you'd like to discuss?
07:33:22 <rainemak> sounds that we move forward
07:33:24 <rainemak> #topic General discussion (10 mins)
07:35:45 <yusssufff> Maybe i have a little question here, is topics are now free: when flashing devices, some users (Olf) insist that we shall flash with 'latest fix' of the android version (ex latest fix of android 11), while Jolla doesnt seem to write it as such an important thing
07:36:43 <yusssufff> On jolla documentation i usually read the version of android wished for flashing (eg 11), but no insistance of updating to tha latest android 11 fix from within android before flashing
07:37:14 <yusssufff> I dont know how clear are my words, i hope its understandable...
07:37:48 <rainemak> yusssufff, there are two things. One is the Android OS version before flashing and another more important is the Android blob version
07:38:13 <yusssufff> Yep. I am not speaking of the blob here
07:38:23 <yusssufff> Just the OS version before flashing
07:38:33 <rainemak> I just want to write this down... as other may not know
07:39:31 <yusssufff> Oh okay yes sure. Thanks. So i wonder Iif technically that makes 'any sense' to actually upgrade to the 'latest fix' of the needed android version, of if thats just OCD  and irrelevant :)
07:39:32 <rainemak> using "randomly" newer Android vendor blobs might work but it may also break bad as that specific hybrid-based Sailfish OS adaptation is build against Android xyz
07:40:31 <rainemak> updated Android OS before flashing to the latest let's say Android 11 is perfectly ok.
07:41:34 <yusssufff> I see, so its perfectly okay, but does it makes any difference with flahshing on the lets say in that case the first verison release of Android 11?
07:41:58 <rainemak> using Android OS (for example starting modem or GPS) may write some states to the hw causing changes from user to user.
07:43:14 <rainemak> my gut feeling is that some GPS related observations from community members are exactly due to above
07:45:14 <rainemak> yusssufff, I don't think makes too much of a difference given that the Sailfish OS adaptation itself is working
07:46:09 <rainemak> yusssufff, but as a rule of thumb updating to the latest version of Android 11 when Android 11 is recommended is good
07:47:16 <rainemak> I'd like to ask about this time slot
07:47:44 <flypig> The timeslot for the fortnightly meeting?
07:47:45 <rainemak> It has been very nice to hear new voices over here every-now-and-then. I think we could attract more community members by adjusting the time. Asked this topic in the newsletter last week but no week feedback.
07:48:00 <rainemak> flypig, yeap
07:48:16 <rainemak> we could cover that discussion on the scheduling as well
07:48:26 <yusssufff> Okay. Thank you for the insight. So I guess flashing Sailfish mostly makes a difference when on different android versions (11/12) but the fix within the version may not matter much to Sailfish flashing
07:49:38 <rainemak> We have had 7 am UTC for quite some time... Should try for example 5:00 PM CET? Meaning 3PM UTC
07:50:01 <Nico> Yeah, the meeting is currently like 20 minutes before I get up and when I have a work meeting scheduled. Later would be nice :D
07:50:27 <rainemak> ^ I guess we can have this discussion on the general
07:50:36 <flypig> I'm personally very happy with the time as it is, but I'm certain that whatever time is chosen, there will be a bunch of people who are excluded because they can't make it then.
07:50:44 <rainemak> Nico, so 5 PM CET would be better for you
07:51:04 <Nico> rainemak, yes, or even just 1h later :)
07:51:24 <rainemak> flypig, that's true but many are working. Thus, cannot participate
07:51:32 <flypig> Yes, I agree.
07:52:15 <rainemak> I'm also flexible on having this meeting at evening 6 or 7 HKI time
07:52:24 <Nico> Well, one day I will just get up early enough...
07:52:25 <rainemak> ^ pm that is
07:52:55 <rainemak> ExTechOp, you're usually participating. Would evening slots work for you
07:53:06 <ExTechOp> Just as well, thanks.
07:53:12 <rainemak> how about direc85[m] ?
07:53:32 <direc85[m]> that works for me as well
07:53:50 <rainemak> let's move to scheduling
07:53:57 <rainemak> #topic Next meeting time and date (5 mins)
07:55:05 <rainemak> Should we give try like 6:00 PM CET. That would be like 7:00 PM HKI time, 6:00 PM in Germany, 5:00 PM in UK, and so on.
07:55:48 <flypig> I like that, personally.
07:56:23 <rainemak> sorry 8PM HKI that is
07:56:25 <Nico> Sounds good to me to try it at least :)
07:56:40 <direc85[m]> that sounds good
07:56:54 <direc85[m]> 8PM also works fine
07:58:21 <flypig> This is an exciting change :) It must have been in the morning for 5, maybe 10 years or even longer?
07:58:45 <rainemak> yeap
07:59:26 <rainemak> let's test first something and adjust as needed
07:59:31 <rainemak> Proposing Thursday 19th June at 04:00 PM UTC
07:59:35 <rainemak> #info Proposing Thursday 19th June at 04:00 PM UTC
08:00:32 <rainemak> 5PM UK, 6PM DE, 7PM HKI,
08:01:48 <direc85[m]> lgtm
08:01:52 <flypig> +1
08:02:17 <rainemak> #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 19th June 2025 at 04:00pm UTC: 2025-06-19T1600Z
08:02:49 <rainemak> have a great rest of the week! thank you all!
08:03:02 <rainemak> #endmeeting