16:00:00 <rainemak> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 28th August 2025
16:00:00 <sailbot> Meeting started Thu Aug 28 16:00:00 2025 UTC. The chair is rainemak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:00 <sailbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:00 <rainemak> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:
16:00:00 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-28th-august-2025/24483
16:00:00 <rainemak> I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive.
16:00:00 <rainemak> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info
16:00:06 <roundedrectangl> Hello everyone! I wrote that I won't be able to attend the meeting on forum when proposing a topic, but I found time to do it. Hope that's ok.
16:00:26 <rainemak> roundedrectangl, perfectly fine! welcome
16:00:42 <rainemak> #info Raine Mäkeläinen, Jolla
16:00:43 <ExTechOp> #info Otto Mäkelä, community
16:00:45 <ViGe_> #info Ville Nummela, community
16:00:53 <roundedrectangl> #info roundedrectangle, community
16:01:13 <piggz[m]> #info piggz, community
16:01:52 <abr> #info Andrew Branson, sailing by
16:02:14 <direc85[m]> #info Matti Viljanen, Jolla
16:02:22 <direc85[m]> and good evening :)
16:03:02 <Keto> #info Pami Ketolainen, Jolla
16:03:03 <rainemak> nicely list of participants already
16:03:34 <CLMA31[m]> #info CLMA31, community
16:03:38 <mal> #info mal, Jolla
16:04:27 <rainemak> We have three topics today. Let's start in a moment.
16:04:42 <rainemak> Welcome everybody
16:05:06 <rainemak> #topic Default Hosts file and DNS (5 mins -- Novacane)
16:05:06 <rainemak> #info <Novacane> Is there a specific reason why the Android App support is not set
16:05:06 <rainemak> #info <Novacane> up by default to use the Hosts file and DNS which SailfishOS
16:05:06 <rainemak> #info <Novacane> uses? Also, how difficult would it be to add an option somewhere
16:05:06 <rainemak> #info <Novacane> in the Settings app to enter/change the entire system’s DNS
16:05:07 <rainemak> #info <Novacane> settings? Related: How to change DNS settings?
16:05:09 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/how-to-change-dns-settings/10068/11
16:05:11 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/how-to-change-dns-on-mobile-network/13286/13
16:05:15 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/using-host-etc-hosts-in-aliendalvik-androidappsupport-ad-aas-via-bind-mount-on-sfos-4-5/14653/11
16:05:19 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Thanks for asking. Let's clarify open questions further but let
16:05:20 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> this be a starting point. Adding an option to Settings app should
16:05:22 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> not be a big effort but that's more like a resourcing and
16:05:24 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> prioritization question. For the next release there will be an
16:05:26 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> AppSupport config file that can be used for changing DNS settings.
16:06:21 <rainemak> Further, I'm quite sure that platform configurability has been on of the decication parameters.
16:06:29 <rainemak> one
16:07:10 <rainemak> Would you abr have something to add here?
16:08:13 <abr> I think the config you see for AppSupport is just supposed to defer DNS to connman, which will switch where it goes depending on the connection
16:09:12 <Keto> it's also in the plans to switch from the connman dns proxy to the systemd resolved, not sure if it makes the overall system dns configurability easier or harder
16:09:28 <rainemak> Keto, yeap that one as well
16:09:49 <rainemak> actually I think that above mentioned dns config setting relates to the systemd resolved
16:10:14 <abr> Switching dns server per connection is probably one of those things that used to be much more important in the past. Nowadays people tend to use global ones rather than ISP supplied.
16:11:17 <piggz[m]> abr: speak for yourself ... i run my own adblock DNS in the house, and access it on the go with a tailscale network :)
16:11:49 <abr> Yeah I should imagine a few people would like to let connman keep switching, but maybe not as many as in the past.
16:12:03 <rainemak> alright, I think we have covered this one. As Novacane was not able to attend, If there's something to clarify we can do that in the forum post.
16:12:41 <rainemak> moving on
16:12:42 <rainemak> #topic Python update (5mins -- roundedrectangle)
16:12:42 <rainemak> #info <roundedrectangle> Python 3.8 is now end of life and no longer receives
16:12:42 <rainemak> #info <roundedrectangle> security updates. Security updates are not that
16:12:42 <rainemak> #info <roundedrectangle> important, but many projects have dropped support for it
16:12:43 <rainemak> #info <roundedrectangle> and now require a newer version. Because of this, some of
16:12:46 <rainemak> #info <roundedrectangle> my Python-based apps cannot update to newer libraries and
16:12:48 <rainemak> #info <roundedrectangle> have to stick with older versions. I have seen a branch
16:12:50 <rainemak> #info <roundedrectangle> with 3.11 update, but there is no pull request. So, when
16:12:52 <rainemak> #info <roundedrectangle> is the Python update planned?
16:12:54 <rainemak> #link https://github.com/sailfishos/python3/tree/python311
16:13:08 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Like you noticed, we're a work in progress branch for Python 3.11.
16:13:08 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> With the newer Python we do have still some odd cross-build issues.
16:13:08 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> The Python build itself randomly fails. This looks very much similar
16:13:08 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> to xulrunner build randomly failing.
16:13:08 <rainemak> #info <Jolla>
16:13:10 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Python 3.11 will be good for a while as that receives security fixes
16:13:12 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> until October 2027.
16:13:16 <rainemak> #info <Jolla>
16:13:18 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> We're targeting Python update for the next major update.
16:14:03 <rainemak> mal, did that updated make go in already ?
16:14:44 <mal> yes, make was updated and it fixed most the of build issues with xulrunner but not with newer python
16:15:00 <roundedrectangl> Thank you for answering. Most modern python libraries have 3.11 or 3.9 as minimum supported version, so that is okay for my apps.
16:15:04 <rainemak> Bottom line is that there's still some to fix.
16:15:42 <rainemak> However, as this also occasionally builds fine and all functional issues should be fixed. We could in theory take it in devel rather soon.
16:15:53 <mal> but other that the build failures of python itself all packages requiring python seem to build fine based on current testing
16:16:10 <rainemak> thanks very good
16:16:13 <rainemak> that's
16:17:12 <rainemak> does this cover all your points roundedrectangl ?
16:17:19 <roundedrectangl> yes
16:17:21 <ExTechOp> Is there any understanding on the causes of the build failures?
16:18:04 <rainemak> mal, ^
16:18:56 <mal> ExTechOp: most likely some scratchbox2 issue, could be some missing wrapped/gated function call or something like that
16:19:02 <mal> or some threading bug
16:21:06 <rainemak> It looks that we can move on. Let's take the next topic.
16:21:13 <rainemak> #topic Sony Xperia 10 IV/V adaption in light of Sony no longer selling smartphones in Finland (5mins -- rgrnetalk)
16:21:13 <rainemak> #info <rgrnetalk> While Sony hasn’t officially announced an exit from Europe, it
16:21:13 <rainemak> #info <rgrnetalk> has confirmed to Finnish outlet SuomiMobiili that Xperia phones
16:21:14 <rainemak> #info <rgrnetalk> will no longer be sold directly in Finland. This could be
16:21:15 <rainemak> #info <rgrnetalk> explained as an early sign of a wind-down of Sony’s smartphone
16:21:17 <rainemak> #info <rgrnetalk> business. For owners of the Sony Xperia 10 IV/V this means
16:21:19 <rainemak> #info <rgrnetalk> (more) uncertainty. Does Jolla has more information on the Sony
16:21:21 <rainemak> #info <rgrnetalk> business and can it be shared with the community? Is the
16:21:23 <rainemak> #info <rgrnetalk> adaption for the Sony Xperia 10 IV/V influenced by this new
16:21:25 <rainemak> #info <rgrnetalk> situation? I’m aware of the anouncement of a dedicated post for
16:21:27 <rainemak> #info <rgrnetalk> the situation of the Xperia 10 IV/V. If no information can be
16:21:29 <rainemak> #info <rgrnetalk> shared in this meeting, can you ascertain that it will be added
16:21:31 <rainemak> #info <rgrnetalk> to the dedicated post?
16:21:34 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> We will cover your concerns in the dedicated post of the Sony Xperia
16:21:35 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> 10 IV and 10 V.
16:25:06 <rainemak> Moving on
16:25:07 <rainemak> #topic Open Pull Requests (PRs) to discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla)
16:26:07 <rainemak> anybody ?
16:30:07 <rainemak> Moving forward to general discussion
16:30:10 <rainemak> #topic General discussion (10 mins)
16:31:19 <CLMA31[m]> As it is quite often asked in the forum, is there any time estimate regarding the dedicated post about 10 IV and 10 V?
16:31:26 <rainemak> Thank you who have expressed views and given comments to the next gen jolla phone thread.
16:31:39 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/next-gen-jolla-phone/23882
16:31:48 <CLMA31[m]> Thank you for the opportunity!
16:33:02 <rainemak> That's one of the topics that should finalize. Goes to next week but take that with a grain of salt as we have items on the table as well.
16:33:09 <ExTechOp> I must be a bit stupid, but I can't see any reason for more than FullHD resolution even in a slightly larger handheld device? I mean, the pixels are even there quite tiny.
16:33:59 <rainemak> I'm personally leaning to FullHD as well. It would be a very good compromise between perf and resolution.
16:34:00 <direc85[m]> I've been working on LLVM 20 and Rust 1.89 and they can now compile some apps for aarch64 for example, so feel free to compile and try those: https://github.com/sailfishos/llvm/tree/llvm-20 and https://github.com/sailfishos/rust/tree/rust-1.89
16:34:22 <rainemak> nice!
16:34:35 <CLMA31[m]> Can you reveal any news regarding the next gen Jolla phone? How likely does it seem that it will be realized?
16:34:52 <mal> only place where high resolution has some effect is if someone uses phone for vr
16:35:03 <rainemak> CLMA31[m], Let's came back to that a bit later.
16:35:37 <CLMA31[m]> rainemak: Thank you for the info, doesn't concern me but I have a feeling that there is a lot of interest towards that post
16:36:05 <CLMA31[m]> rainemak: Can't wait!
16:36:06 <rainemak> mal, do you have an idea how common VR use is?
16:36:18 <mal> probably not very common
16:36:31 <mal> not really sure though
16:36:46 <rainemak> that's also my gut feeling. surely, there would some use.
16:37:23 <rainemak> 3 minutes left
16:38:19 <mal> that reminds me that I should finish the sensor support in sailfish browser after esr102, that would make use with vr supporing webpages possible
16:39:12 <CLMA31[m]> If fullHD gives a better camera for example I would be okay with it. Personally I watch quite a lot things from phone screen so good resolution makes it more pleasant
16:39:13 <direc85[m]> how much VR use cases are there for phones?
16:40:15 <CLMA31[m]> But no need for 4k
16:40:15 <rainemak> two extra minutes in case there are comments for the above.
16:40:21 <mal> videos, maybe some android games
16:41:44 <abr> just taxes the gpu. 1080p is enough for anyone on a phone.
16:42:23 <rainemak> next week is again newsletter week, if you have Sailfish news in mind please post them to the https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sailfish-community-news-21st-august-2025-camera-discussion/24562
16:43:00 <rainemak> let's wrap up
16:43:09 <rainemak> #topic Next meeting time and date (5 mins)
16:43:09 <direc85[m]> I prefer vibrant colors and good viewing angles over resolution
16:43:25 <CLMA31[m]> abr: Well most people have voted better than 1080p, so personal preferences in some sense
16:43:52 <rainemak> please note that also aspect ratio plays a role
16:44:19 <rainemak> How do you like this new time slot? Asked this already earlier but now there's more community members present.
16:45:12 <CLMA31[m]> Agree there is many things affecting the display quality and I just hope best possible balance
16:45:15 <CLMA31[m]> I like this time slot
16:45:54 <mal> there are those intermediate resolutions also between 1080p and 4k
16:46:03 <ExTechOp> I have to either stay late at work or dash home early for it, so the morning time was kinda better, but this isn't a catastrophe.
16:46:59 <roundedrectangl> for me this time slot is better than morning
16:47:08 <abr> Resolution alone I understand why people might vote for higher. But I think people would notice the battery drain and lower frame rate in reality.
16:47:41 <rainemak> This works for me also fine. If this would be an hour earlier, it could be trickier for central Europe.
16:48:29 <mal> I like this evening time better
16:48:38 <ViGe_> Today I was luckily home at this time, quite often I'm not :/
16:49:24 <abr> Works ok in CET. Might be a little early for the UK?
16:49:24 <rainemak> It sounds that we continue with this time
16:49:38 <rainemak> Proposing Thursday 28th August at 04:00 PM UTC
16:49:53 <rainemak> Proposing Thursday 11th September at 04:00 PM UTC
16:49:56 <rainemak> sorry
16:50:40 <ExTechOp> Works fine.
16:50:56 <rainemak> #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 11th September 2025 at 04:00pm UTC: 2025-09-11T1600Z
16:51:28 <rainemak> Thank you all! I'll setup a new meeting accordingly.
16:51:46 <direc85[m]> thank you!
16:52:00 <roundedrectangl> thanks everybody
16:52:01 <ExTechOp> Nine-eleven. Thanks!
16:52:22 <rainemak> Haha
16:52:40 <rainemak> #endmeeting