16:00:00 <rainemak> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 18th December 2025
16:00:00 <sailbot> Meeting started Thu Dec 18 16:00:00 2025 UTC. The chair is rainemak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:00 <sailbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:00 <rainemak> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:
16:00:00 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/25774
16:00:00 <rainemak> I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive.
16:00:00 <rainemak> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info
16:00:28 <AffeNull[m]> #info Affe Null, community
16:00:31 <jojomen> #info jojomen, community
16:00:32 <ViGe> #info Ville Nummela, community
16:00:33 <mettska> #info mettska, community
16:00:44 <heng> #info Heng Ye, community
16:00:49 <direc85[m]> #info Matti Viljanen, Jolla
16:00:52 <mal> #info mal, Jolla
16:01:48 <Guest33872> #info Otto Mäkelä, community
16:02:47 <rainemak> #info Raine Mäkeläinen, Jolla
16:03:58 <Nico> #info Nico, community
16:03:59 <abr> #info Andrew Branson, Jolla
16:04:06 <rainemak> We have 6 topics to cover which a very nice number for the last meeting of the year. Please keep on asking and raising topics on forum.
16:05:41 <Nico> So much activity! :D
16:06:02 <rainemak> #topic Mainline Linux kernel support for Jolla phones (20-30 mins -- asked by affe_null)
16:06:02 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> There is a growing community of mobile Linux enthusiasts who
16:06:02 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> are interested in running new close-to-mainline kernels
16:06:02 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> instead of vendor kernels originally developed for Android.
16:06:02 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> Some people are already asking about mainline support for
16:06:03 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> the new Jolla phone. In the past, similar requests have been
16:06:05 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> dismissed as not realistic. I think that many things have
16:06:05 <jojomen> Hard to keep track :)
16:06:07 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> changed now. We don’t have a fully working phone with a
16:06:09 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> mainline kernel yet, but some are getting extremely close.
16:06:11 <rainemak> #info <affe_null>
16:06:15 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> This looks like a good opportunity for Sailfish OS, since
16:06:17 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> using a mainline kernel could help with providing longer
16:06:19 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> support for devices, attract more developers, and replace a
16:06:21 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> lot of low-quality/unmaintained/proprietary manufacturer
16:06:23 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> code with community-developed open-source software.
16:06:25 <rainemak> #info <affe_null>
16:06:27 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> Would Jolla be interested in officially supporting community
16:06:29 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> mainlining efforts for supported devices? Are there any
16:06:31 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> chances that a close-to-mainline kernel for the Jolla C2 or
16:06:33 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> the new Jolla phone will eventually be integrated into
16:06:35 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> Sailfish OS, perhaps as an optional alternative? I would
16:06:37 <rainemak> #info <affe_null> like to discuss the requirements for this.
16:06:39 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Unfortunately we do not have resources to officially support
16:06:41 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> community mainlining efforts.  Contributions of course welcome
16:06:45 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> to the Jolla C2 git repositories.
16:06:47 <rainemak> #info <Jolla>
16:06:49 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Or are you actually asking to support efforts themselves not the
16:06:51 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> mainlining itself?
16:07:05 <rainemak> Currently we just have our hands full.
16:07:56 <Nico> I guess the hope was, that the J2 SOC would be more mainline happy than older SOCs have been in the past?
16:08:03 <mal> one part where we can help is if packages need updating, or feature enabled to for example get hw video codecs or other things working in mainline based devices
16:09:22 <rainemak> yes, hw video codecs is one good example
16:10:04 <jojomen> I believe haveing mainline kernel and drivers would reduce maintenance and let devices ive longer, but doesn't it come down to the good will SoC suppliers?
16:10:37 <jojomen> -> goo will of...
16:10:48 <jojomen> -> good will of... (can't spell)
16:10:52 <mal> getting everything to good enough state for releases is not easy
16:11:10 <mal> one commonly difficult thing in mainline phones in suspending and power management in general
16:11:15 <Nico> Is the android support still tied to the kernel version or can that be independently updated now?
16:12:00 <AffeNull[m]> mal: not with SFOS, is it? On the C2 autosuspend works fine
16:12:17 <AffeNull[m]> Unisoc has PSCI firmware that provides suspend
16:12:48 <mal> how is power consumption compared to hybris build?
16:13:24 <mal> power management is often the more difficult part, I'm more familiar with qcom mainline devices than others
16:14:06 <AffeNull[m]> It does consume a bit more, but it is not bad
16:15:32 <AffeNull[m]> and there are still some things I haven't worked on yet, e.g. devfreq drivers
16:15:35 <abr> What sort of offical support were you asking about?
16:18:07 <mal> AffeNull[m]: have you yet tried to get any parts of that integrated into mainline kernel?
16:18:44 <AffeNull[m]> abr: Nothing specific, but I wasn't referring to actual development work
16:19:15 <AffeNull[m]> mal: Yes, but the upstreaming process is very slow. I'm still planning to continue
16:19:30 <mal> yes, I know, it can take quite a while
16:20:18 <rainemak> AffeNull[m], it has been very pleasant to occasionally check your latest updates from the forum thread. Big hand!
16:22:01 <AffeNull[m]> My question was what requirements a kernel should fulfill to be considered as an alternative to hybris builds in the future, or if Jolla will always use the SoC manufacturer's kernel since it is more official
16:24:00 <rainemak> not necessary always...
16:24:16 <rainemak> s/necessary/necessarily/
16:24:18 <ExTechop-> (A side question: are the SoC manufacturer's kernel wholly FOSS or are there proprietary components?)
16:24:58 <Nico> I would guess that depends a lot on how good and how much friction the mainline kernel support would be. If there are no downsides to using the mainline kernel, it likely would be a no-brainer, but life is rarely that simple :3
16:25:35 <rainemak> Nico, well put
16:25:36 <mal> then there are the things like volte etc which might not be trivial
16:26:26 <AffeNull[m]> ExTechop-: everything in-kernel must be GPLv2 compatible, but some of their drivers depend on non-standard proprietary userspace libraries
16:28:45 <abr> modules can be closed as well, no?
16:28:59 <ExTechop-> AffeNull[m] (thanks, would the proprietary parts also include things like the Sony proprietary developer blobs on Xperia hardware?)
16:29:53 <rainemak> let's use the upper limit 30mins for this topic.
16:30:05 <mal> also one part to note that getting camera to work well in mainline is not easy, often the vendor support in android does undocumented things directly to the hw
16:31:21 <AffeNull[m]> mal: I'm already working on most of these things for the C2, and it's not as bad as with qcom devices
16:31:32 <AffeNull[m]> (except for hardware video encoding)
16:31:44 <mal> ok, depends on the camera sensors of course also
16:32:40 <rainemak> 3mins
16:34:20 <AffeNull[m]> Ok, thanks for the responses! I guess we can move on
16:35:15 <mal> I can have a look at some point at your git repo and see if I have any commments based on my experiences with getting patches into upstream
16:36:21 <AffeNull[m]> mal: Thanks, that would be great!
16:36:42 <rainemak> let's move on
16:36:56 <rainemak> #topic Additional details on J2 (5mins -- asked by JoshuaStrobl)
16:37:02 <rainemak> #info <JoshuaStrobl> 1. U.S. band information - It is communicated that there
16:37:02 <rainemak> #info <JoshuaStrobl> will be support for U.S. market (roaming). Could more
16:37:02 <rainemak> #info <JoshuaStrobl> specifics be provided on which bands will be supported?
16:37:02 <rainemak> #info <JoshuaStrobl> I have at least one friend I could order the device for
16:37:02 <rainemak> #info <JoshuaStrobl> that I’ll be meeting up with in Prague next year, but he
16:37:03 <rainemak> #info <JoshuaStrobl> needs to know if it’d even support his network.
16:37:05 <rainemak> #info <JoshuaStrobl>
16:37:07 <rainemak> #info <JoshuaStrobl> 2. Cyan cover? My cyan Jolla One needs a friend. That is
16:37:09 <rainemak> #info <JoshuaStrobl> all.
16:37:11 <rainemak> #info <JoshuaStrobl> 3. Could STLs or similar of the back cover be made
16:37:15 <rainemak> #info <JoshuaStrobl> available so folks can make their own back covers?
16:37:17 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Let’s try to talk about Jolla Phone or Jolla Phone (2026)
16:37:19 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> whenever possible :-).
16:37:21 <rainemak> #info <Jolla>
16:37:23 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> 1. We will design the cellular band configuration to enable
16:37:25 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> global travelling as much as possible. Too early to communicate
16:37:27 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> actual bands.
16:37:29 <rainemak> #info <Jolla>
16:37:31 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> 2. Having a Jolla One color friend sounds like an interesting
16:37:33 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> idea, let’s see.
16:37:35 <rainemak> #info <Jolla>
16:37:37 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> 3. We’ll open source the hardware and software interface specs
16:37:39 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> of The Other Half so anyone can design, 3D-print, or produce
16:37:41 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> their own modules. So, answer to your question is yes.
16:37:50 <JoshuaStrobl[m]> Easy. We can move on :D
16:38:03 <rainemak> I think we'll create a git repository for the 3D models.
16:38:24 <cquence> Hello everyone, super-late joined to listen in (read)
16:38:41 <jojomen> How will the Other Half work with respect to the NFC antenna?
16:38:44 <JoshuaStrobl[m]> As since the posting of my question, ToH 2 was announced, so I believe that mainly covered the 3rd question. That said, would we still get them regardless of if we hit the 10k preorders for creation of ToH 2?
16:38:48 <jojomen> Is there a risk NFC tags will end up too far away?
16:39:05 <rainemak> let's be pragmatic on how to share those 3d models and other related materials
16:39:15 <ExTechop-> (it is nice to see how there are now 5729 sold of 2000, so 286% funded for the J2 pre-order)
16:39:38 <Nico> jojomen: If someone creates a thich keyboard toh, most likely, but I would hope they thought of that for the normal ones :D
16:40:16 <JoshuaStrobl[m]> Yea a git repository with the assets would be fantastic. Thanks.
16:40:27 <jojomen> nico: That might solve my other issue: Seeing the renders of the phone, I wonder how to avoid camera lenses rubbing against wherever I lay may phone
16:40:36 <jojomen> :)
16:41:42 <rainemak> to clarify, The Other Half is coming back if we reach 10,000. <- that's what we communicated in the Forum.
16:41:49 <Nico> Well, I doubt NFC passes through the thick other halfs, there will likely be limitations based on the thickness and material used, unless the NFC antenna is moved to the front or top or something, which I don't think is really possible
16:42:18 <Nico> rainemak, well, I'm a glass half full kinda person
16:43:28 <rainemak> We are super pleased on how you have taken the The Other Half Returns announcement
16:43:30 <rainemak> https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/the-other-half-returns-community-innovation-program/26011
16:43:47 <rainemak> let's move forward
16:43:50 <rainemak> #topic Future plans of the Qt update (10mins -- asked by CLMA31)
16:43:55 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> During the summer community meeting there were talks that the
16:43:55 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> biggest reason Qt update haven’t happened was that there was
16:43:55 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> not yet any customer willing to pay for it. After that Sami
16:43:55 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> mentioned that there had been thinking of splitting the
16:43:55 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> SailfishOS to fully open source version where Qt update could
16:43:57 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> then be done and keeping other version for B2B customers. Has
16:43:58 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> there been any development on this front? On other hand, I
16:44:00 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> hope that financial situation of Jolla has improved and who
16:44:01 <jojomen> @rainemak: It's really nice that you considered TOH for the new phone!
16:44:02 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> know, maybe there could be money even to pay for Qt
16:44:04 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> licenses :slight_smile: PS: STUNNING job with the J2 launch so
16:44:06 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> far! Really excited to get my hand on one
16:44:18 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> No development updates to share now. A model where we would
16:44:18 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> have fully open source version and keeping “current” for B2B
16:44:18 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> customers could be still an option.
16:48:06 <rainemak> I guess there are not much to add to this.
16:48:11 <rainemak> let's move on
16:48:19 <rainemak> #topic Unable to call local emergency from lock screen (5-10 mins -- asked by CLMA31)
16:48:19 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> There has been great discussion about the problem in here
16:48:19 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> Reliable emergency calls - #11 by jrg and at least here Unable
16:48:19 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> to call local emergency number, only 112 - #30 by moripeluka.
16:48:19 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> There has been reports that it is not possible to call local
16:48:21 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> emergency numbers from lock screen, only 112. This sounds at
16:48:22 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> least easy and important thing to fix why I want to raise the
16:48:24 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> problem. There has been also reports that calling to the
16:48:26 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> emergency service hasn’t worked at all in the urgent need. It
16:48:28 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> would be great to hear if Jolla has been able to investigate
16:48:30 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> that and is there hopes to get that working reliable?
16:48:32 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/reliable-emergency-calls/26085/11
16:48:34 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/unable-to-call-local-emergency-number-only-112/20800/30
16:48:43 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Should go without saying that this is a topic that we are
16:48:43 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> taking seriously. We do not know yet what exactly is the
16:48:43 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> mechanism on how operators select the devices that are banned
16:48:44 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> nor how the devices are identified. Same time this probably
16:48:46 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> affects other custom Android ROMs.
16:49:12 <jojomen> Not only custom roms, it seems
16:49:32 <rainemak> That is true as well just that device gets old enough
16:50:16 <jojomen> It's strange that we've come to a point where emergency calls is the most difficult part
16:51:00 <abr> also seems to be that the stock android for the device doesn't support it, so it gets banned? they can't detect whether a reflashed device might support it now.
16:51:05 <jojomen> it used to be that you could make emergency calls as long as there was any base station within reach
16:52:19 <mal> the case where only 112 seemed to be supported is a bit odd, it's possible to check via dbus which one are listed as supported, ofono gets those both sim card and android hal, and there is list of default numbers if neither of those provide anything
16:54:34 <mal> I wonder if the sim card for example only lists that one supported, would need some checking
16:56:23 <rainemak> let's move to the next topic
16:56:28 <mal> and it might also be that the extra emergency numbers might not be considered as real emergency number by sim card nor android hal
16:56:50 <mal> in case some country has some topic specific numbers like fire department etc
16:56:52 <rainemak> mal, that's a good point as well
16:57:20 <rainemak> #topic AAS-Support on community ports (5mins -- asked by mettska)
16:57:26 <rainemak> #info <mettska> I believe I read somewhere in the past, that Jolla is
16:57:26 <rainemak> #info <mettska> thinking about supporting AAS on community ports. The port
16:57:26 <rainemak> #info <mettska> for the Xperia 1IV/5IV seems to have a high quality. Is there
16:57:26 <rainemak> #info <mettska> a chance it could be (the first) supported community port?
16:57:26 <rainemak> #info <mettska>
16:57:27 <rainemak> #info <mettska> Here you find the information and discussion about the port
16:57:29 <rainemak> #info <mettska> itself: Sony Nagara (Xperia 1IV and 5IV) port
16:57:31 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sony-nagara-xperia-1iv-and-5iv-port/25136
16:57:55 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> It’s very unlikely that Xperia 1 IV / 5 IV would be the first
16:57:55 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> community port to get the AppSupport (and other commercial
16:57:55 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> components). Currently we are very busy with all related to
16:57:55 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Jolla Phone product program. Further, we give ourselves a bit
16:57:55 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> of Christmas break. Surely, we have been thinking how to expand
16:57:57 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> AppSupport for community ports. More on that later.
16:58:12 <piggz[m]> Aas on volla sure would be nice ;)
16:58:25 <mal> or fairphones :)
16:59:18 <mini_coe[m]> Or Xperia 10 Iv / v 😉
16:59:24 <mettska> So that means in january or february there could come more information or should I understand "later" more longterm?
17:00:36 <rainemak> mettska, read: not too far in the future
17:00:53 <mettska> ok, thanks!
17:01:18 <rainemak> will open next topic
17:01:26 <rainemak> #topic Waiting for the end of FOSDEM before to close J2 sales. (5mins -- asked by Ric9k)
17:01:26 <rainemak> #info <mettska> Someone evoked this on the Sfos TG: J2 could have some
17:01:26 <rainemak> #info <mettska> success during FOSDEM.
17:01:26 <rainemak> #info <mettska>
17:01:26 <rainemak> #info <mettska> Isnt’t it a bit too bad to close the sales just before the
17:01:27 <rainemak> #info <mettska> end?
17:01:33 <mettska> yes!
17:01:56 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> We are seriously considering the 10k as an upper limit for the
17:01:56 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> pre-orders as a manageable amount and working capital for the
17:01:56 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> components. Please also note the memory chip prices are
17:01:56 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> skyrocketing increasing the Bill-of-Materials (BoM).
17:02:31 <rainemak> Maybe we have the traditional Sailfish community meeting during Saturday evening together with you in some nice place.
17:03:47 <jojomen> Could be an option to close after 10k units or FOSDEM end, whichever comes first?
17:04:28 <rainemak> Could be an option, yes.
17:06:11 <rainemak> Let's see how it goes.
17:06:35 <rainemak> moving on
17:06:41 <rainemak> #topic Open Pull Requests (PRs) to discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla)
17:06:44 <ExTechop-> (didn't at one point "someone" buy up from wholesalers the chips you intended to use for Jolla tablets?)
17:08:33 <rainemak> anybody?
17:09:44 <rainemak> we can take them up in the general discussion if something pops up
17:09:45 <rainemak> #topic General discussion (10 mins or something)
17:10:37 <jojomen> Kudos for prompt action on cookies on commerce.jolla.com
17:10:45 <jojomen> I realize you have been busy with the campaign for the J2, so I really appreciate that you managed to sort this.
17:10:45 <Nico> Well, you happy with the preorders so far? Above or below expectation? :D
17:12:09 <heng> viewing reviews on harbour.jolla.com seems to be broken
17:12:50 <rainemak> Clearly above our expectations that's why the batch #1 went long as well.
17:13:36 <rainemak> Keto, ^ would you be able to check heng's comment
17:13:41 <ExTechop-> I was a bit surprised that some Chinese manufacturer made push-to-talk walkie-talkie "phones" which use data https://youtu.be/zT0CvQKSKVQ
17:13:41 <ExTechop-> Would it be possible to use Jolla phone hardware (perhaps with the mostly-superfluous "camera" button) in a similar manner?
17:13:54 <rainemak> jojomen, thank you
17:15:44 <Keto> heng: that has never been implemented
17:15:48 <roundedrectangl> heng: AFAIK they were always broken
17:15:59 <heng> oh ok thanks
17:17:29 <jojomen> Have to go. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, everybody!
17:17:33 <jojomen> Take a well-deserved rest, Jolla!
17:17:58 <direc85[m]> Many years ago I had Nokia 6233 which had some kind of push-to-talk. I used it with my friend for a bit and it worked fine.
17:18:46 <rainemak> I want to thank you all for this year! We have clearly improved together our ways to communicate and discuss. Being it that you, Sailfish Community, have taken more role with the newsletter or that we have great discussions over here.
17:19:06 <piggz[m]> 👍 thanks all
17:19:21 <rainemak> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
17:19:32 <ExTechop-> Happy Holidays, and thanks everyone!
17:19:43 <ViGe> Happy Holidays everyone!
17:19:54 <heng> Thanks and happy holidays everyone!!
17:20:02 <roundedrectangl> happy holidays everybody :)
17:20:09 <rainemak> Shall we schedule the next meeting -- let's give a moment for greetings :)
17:21:01 <Nico> Merry christmas :3
17:21:19 <direc85[m]> Happy holidays everyone!
17:21:25 <ExTechop-> The second Thursday after this would be the 1st of January, so I guess we skip that?
17:21:33 <rainemak> #topic Next meeting time and date (2 mins)
17:21:38 <rainemak> Proposing Thursday 15th January at 04:00 PM UTC
17:22:04 <direc85[m]> +1
17:22:05 <rainemak> My plan was that we'd start the year with a newsletter on 8th Jan
17:22:29 <rainemak> and yes ExTechop- , 1st of Jan is not good
17:23:29 <mini_coe[m]> Merry christmas all.
17:23:39 <ExTechop-> 15th would work
17:23:56 <mini_coe[m]> +1
17:24:02 <rainemak> let's take that
17:24:08 <rainemak> #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 15th January 2026 at 04:00pm UTC: 2026-01-15T1600Z
17:24:35 <rainemak> and again thank you all! it was great again as always
17:24:40 <ExTechop-> Excellent, thanks folks!
17:25:06 <direc85[m]> Thank you all!
17:25:23 <rainemak> #endmeeting