16:00:01 <rainemak> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 29th January 2026
16:00:01 <sailbot> Meeting started Thu Jan 29 16:00:01 2026 UTC. The chair is rainemak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:01 <sailbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:01 <rainemak> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:
16:00:01 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/27184
16:00:01 <rainemak> I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive.
16:00:01 <rainemak> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info
16:00:31 <abr> #info Andrew Branson - sailor @ Jolla
16:00:34 <nephros> #info nephros, community
16:01:11 <rainemak> #info Raine Mäkeläinen, Jolla
16:01:17 <mal> #info mal, Jolla
16:01:24 <ExTechOp> #info Otto Mäkelä, community
16:01:32 <fridlmue> #info fridlmue, community
16:01:43 <TheKit[m]> #info Nikita/TheKit, community
16:01:44 <direc85[m]> #info Matti Viljanen, Jolla
16:03:48 <Keto> #info Pami Ketolainen, Jolla
16:05:18 <rainemak> We have 4 topics today. We've been busy with FOSDEM preparation and other things. There were also 3 late questions but let's try to cover them as well. Thus, let's try to have an open discussion.
16:05:36 <rainemak> Ok, let's start
16:05:42 <rainemak> #topic eSIM support in SailfishOS (10 mins -- Juanro49)
16:05:42 <rainemak> #info <Juanro49> Considering that there are already several devices running
16:05:42 <rainemak> #info <Juanro49> Sailfish that have an eSIM chip (Xperia 10 IV and V
16:05:42 <rainemak> #info <Juanro49> officially, and several ports such as Fairphone), are there
16:05:42 <rainemak> #info <Juanro49> plans to add eSIM support in the near future?
16:05:44 <rainemak> #info <Juanro49>
16:05:45 <rainemak> #info <Juanro49> We currently have lpac and the SimPro app to manage eSIM
16:05:47 <rainemak> #info <Juanro49> profiles tested with physical eSIMs, and even Fairphone port
16:05:49 <rainemak> #info <Juanro49> users have tested it with the device’s internal chip (this
16:05:51 <rainemak> #info <Juanro49> chip is disabled for Xperia 10 IV and V according to the
16:05:55 <rainemak> #info <Juanro49> release notes).
16:05:57 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/esim-on-xperia-10-iii-and-other-sfos-devices/14962/32
16:05:59 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/release-notes-tampella-5-0-0-55/21801
16:06:01 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Simple answer would be yes and no. Earliest plausible release
16:06:03 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> for eSIM support would be Sailfish 5.2. Please think it so that
16:06:05 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> we have tons of other features to do. So, no promises regarding
16:06:07 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> the release schedule.
16:09:20 <Keto> and 5.2 being the release targeted for the new Jolla Phone
16:10:14 <ExTechOp> Remind me, did that have eSIM capability?
16:10:16 <rainemak> and 5.1 somewhere before that around March
16:10:32 <mal> afaik all modern devices have eSIM capability
16:10:51 <ExTechOp> mal That did not answer my question :-D
16:11:39 <rainemak> 4mins remaining
16:14:31 <rainemak> about time to move on
16:15:00 <rainemak> #topic Situation of Q4 batch of C2 (5 mins -- asked by CLMA31)
16:15:00 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> Update on Jolla C2 Q4/25 production batch - there has been
16:15:00 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> informed delays, just asking what is the current situation and
16:15:00 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> if there is approximate timeline available?
16:15:00 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/update-on-jolla-c2-q4-25-production-batch/25420/26
16:15:10 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> We have communicated to our manufacturing partner that our
16:15:10 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> community is eagerly waiting for these. You can be rest assured
16:15:10 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> that we are pushing them. We have not received further updates
16:15:10 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> from our manufacturing partner. What we know is that after
16:15:10 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> production is ready it still takes time to get these babies
16:15:12 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> to Finland due to customs and shipping etc.
16:16:43 <ExTechOp> Let's hope you don't suddenly get hit by "oops, some big manufacturer brought up all the required components" like has happened with some earlier projects
16:18:13 <rainemak> We'll update to the forum once there's something to update
16:20:02 <rainemak> I'd say moving on... next topic
16:20:03 <rainemak> #topic No audio after some time, have to reboot (15 mins -- asked by CLMA31)
16:20:03 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> Now that I got my hands on Xperia 10 III this is probably most
16:20:04 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> severe of the bugs I have experienced. It even scares me a
16:20:04 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> little bit as in the emergency situation I couldn’t call 112 if
16:20:04 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> I needed if this bug is active. I read through the thread and
16:20:05 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> got feeling that it is mainly present on officially supported
16:20:07 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> line of Sonys. I remember there been one report from C2 also. I
16:20:09 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> guess I just wanted to know what is Jolla’s current idea of
16:20:11 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> this bug and is there change that this isn’t only Xperia
16:20:13 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> problem? Like if there is change that this will be present in
16:20:15 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> the J2 also?
16:20:17 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31>
16:20:19 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> Off topic, as it seems that I can quite often get my Xperia to
16:20:21 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> this stage and I locate close to Tampere it is possible to me
16:20:25 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> bring Xperia to you for testing and getting logs if that helps?
16:20:27 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/no-audio-after-some-time-have-to-reboot/15443
16:20:29 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Within the same topic there is a good answer from yusssufff.
16:20:31 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/no-audio-after-some-time-have-to-reboot/15443/115
16:20:33 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> "We are trying to narrow down the issue in this thread. Feel
16:20:35 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> free to post any debugging or usefull insights you may have
16:20:37 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> enountered!" - yusssufff
16:22:16 <mal> some things to test is if pulseaudio restart helps (the user session pulseaudio not the system session pulseaudio)
16:22:18 <ExTechOp> One thing that seems to trigger this (as I have noted earlier in these threads) is that you often switch between base stations.
16:22:18 <ExTechOp> I was in a hotel in Åland right next to the ferry port, and this happened on a regular basis as the ships came and went four times a day with their base stations.
16:22:30 <mal> and if there have been pulseaudio crashes in logs
16:22:36 <CLMA31[m]> .... thought the meeting starts at 19....
16:22:45 <CLMA31[m]> #info CLMA31
16:22:46 <testeur6000[m]> Hi all
16:22:52 <CLMA31[m]> Sorry of being late
16:22:56 <rainemak> no worry
16:23:16 <crun> A small mitigation would be if there were a dedicated restart
16:23:26 <ExTechOp> mal Occasionally the "restart audio subsystem" in Settings/Utilities does help, but quite often it does not
16:23:51 <mal> ok, if it doesn't then checking logs for ADSP errors or something like that would be useful
16:24:33 <fridlmue> i guess this is a memory leak of some kind. I experienced this issue always when navigating with OSMAnd on Android on my bike.
16:24:45 <mal> I use x10iii as my daily device and can't remember missing audio being an issue often
16:25:01 <mal> can't remember when it would have happened
16:25:24 <ExTechOp> Can someone who understands logging better give pointers in that thread on what kind of information would be useful to extract from the logs?
16:25:29 <crun> The audio subsystem restart is something which has to be done, sometimes while driving, and it is down on the second page of the app. If it had it's own function, or was the first (top) function
16:25:43 <mal> but I'll have a look at the thread and see if I can find useful information there
16:26:38 <mal> so from logs at least anything from pulseaudio and anything related to adsp
16:26:41 <fridlmue> My 10 III is dead, so can't test again, but this worked 100% for me back then: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/no-audio-after-some-time-have-to-reboot/15443/72?u=fridlmue
16:27:01 <fridlmue> to reproduce the bug.
16:27:33 <mal> hmm, if android app seems to trigger it that might narrow it down a bit
16:28:43 <Keto> we have some fixes around the appsupport audio things in the soon to be released 5.0 hotfix
16:30:19 <rainemak> Keto, yeah that's a good point. Let's remember to guide people try to reproduce this issue after 5.0 hotfix is out.
16:30:25 <Keto> though, I don't think those issues killed audio completely, but not sure
16:30:26 <mal> we also have some ngfd fixes coming which should help with alarms etc
16:31:52 <direc85[m]> I reproduced it with C2 the last time I used Kuri which used GPS. It was a long session though.
16:32:42 <rainemak> 3mins remaining
16:33:16 <CLMA31[m]> Okay up to speed, for me it has happened after using Here inside AAS and after using Pure maps (while AAS active in the background)
16:33:44 <rainemak> positioning related as well
16:33:45 <CLMA31[m]> But it has also happened once without recently using the navigation
16:33:48 <direc85[m]> I remember it happening with Here as well.
16:34:50 <rainemak> we got some pointers / ideas
16:35:06 <crun> At one time I thought it was triggered by Skype (android), but it does seem to happen without android being run
16:35:13 <mal> so there is possibility it's appsupport audio related issue which causes something in host side
16:35:32 <CLMA31[m]> Once when I was still na navigating the utility restart didn't fix it but once it did after I came home, stopped all applications and then did the restart from utilities
16:35:45 <CLMA31[m]> * Once when I was still
16:35:45 <CLMA31[m]> navigating the utility restart didn't fix it but once I did it after I came home, stopped all applications and then did the restart from utilities
16:36:04 <rainemak> let's move on
16:36:06 <mal> sometimes apps might now recover from audio system restart
16:36:19 <mal> *might not recover
16:36:24 <CLMA31[m]> Can be, there is two symptoms: no audio whatsoever and video won't play (like 1frame every 3 seconds)
16:36:42 <crun> What makes its worse is that you don't really know if it has happened, since phone calls don't always have ring tone, sometimes have no audio from the other end etc
16:36:48 <CLMA31[m]> But will inform you after the 5.0 hot fix!
16:36:52 <rainemak> discussion continued/s it seems, 5mins more
16:37:09 <crun> I can't recall Audio subsystem restart _not_ working for me. Another mitigation would be to have a way to test (i.e. a beep button)
16:37:12 <mal> just mentioning pulseaudio is close to be ready
16:37:19 <mal> *pulseaudio update
16:38:11 <CLMA31[m]> Let's see if that helps with the problem! Thank you for the input
16:38:49 <CLMA31[m]> If there is specific way how to collect some specific logs, instruction (or link to correct instruction) would be amazing
16:38:55 <crun> What version of PA is it being  brought up to?
16:39:03 <mal> latest, 17.0
16:39:49 <CLMA31[m]> No further questions/comments from my end, we can move on
16:39:51 <crun> Hopefully will see bluetooth use better codecs -
16:40:14 <rainemak> we can continue this one in the general discussion in a moment if needed
16:40:18 <rainemak> #topic Faster location lock (10 mins -- asked by CLMA31)
16:40:18 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> My terminology is bit off here. And I have “spammed” same
16:40:18 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> question before (there probably has been something happening
16:40:18 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> behind the curtains)…. But again for update, what is current
16:40:18 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> situation with the assisted location lock? I mean that as it
16:40:20 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> feels like SFOS only relies on GPS signal currently, is there
16:40:21 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> any progress to use cell tower information (BeaconDB) or WLANs
16:40:25 <rainemak> #info <CLMA31> also to get location lock faster (and/or indoor)?
16:40:27 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/use-beacondb-as-online-positioning-service/22761/63
16:40:29 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> BeaconDB related changes will be in Sailfish OS 5.1 release.
16:40:42 <rainemak> there were some other changes as well if I recall right
16:40:52 <CLMA31[m]> Amazing!!
16:41:07 <CLMA31[m]> Ah, you are in so good roll it seems :)
16:41:39 <CLMA31[m]> No further questions, I can wait few months
16:42:16 <rainemak> did we have something for the SUPL as well?
16:42:16 <mal> there are also changes to location middleware which might affect A-GNSS on some devices, it seems the older binder interfaces didn't contain A-GNSS service so it was not connected to, so I implemented the rest of the interface versions so now it would connect to the correct interface on all devices
16:44:19 <mal> that is for some of the newer sonys of official devices which have newer HIDL GNSS binder interfaces in use
16:44:30 <crun> I think it would be useful if GPSINFO (or something else) could show when the A-GNSS ephemeris was downloaded
16:45:13 <crun> and likely to allow manually forcing an ephemeris download
16:46:21 <ExTechOp> crun Is loading the ephemeris a GPS chip operation, that happens somewhere in the binary blobs?
16:46:27 <crun> btw, I don't think that the lock issue will really be helped by BeaconDB, I think it is most likely around ephemeris data.
16:47:27 <mal> well gnss hardware can use the rough location gotten from other way like beacondb to get location fix a bit faster
16:47:33 <abr> but it will give you a better rough location until you get the lock
16:47:33 <crun> I don't know - I assume so, but the supl servers is set up in config files
16:48:21 <mal> supl servers have a bit of an issue with ssl certificates afaik, if using custom servers
16:49:09 <crun> GNSS can only use the rough location to get lock, when it has zero idea of where in the world it is
16:49:37 <rainemak> 5mins more for this
16:50:23 <crun> usually, you could just use your last position within 50 miles, and that will speed up a GPS lock as much as you can
16:52:08 <crun> The GPS problem I observe is that the GPS can see a large number of sats (using gpsinfo) within seconds - often quicker than Andoid.
16:52:49 <mal> crun: which device do you use?
16:52:59 <crun> enough of these will be strong to get a fix, but it will be unable to get lock.
16:53:09 <crun> x10III I have 2
16:53:19 <crun> one SF, and one Andoid
16:53:36 <crun> so I have been able to compare side by side
16:53:43 <mal> ok, trying to remember if that had the issue I mentioned of not being connected to the A-GNSS binder service
16:54:03 <mal> might have been one of those but not 100% sure
16:54:42 <rainemak> this deserves yet another 5mins extra
16:55:20 <crun> The thing is that when the gpsinfo sats are green-ish strength, it should be able to get lock, but can't unless they are very strong.
16:56:25 <crun> This suggests that the SF implementation might have a higher signal threshold for sats before it uses them to lock
16:57:24 <mal> we don't control that, everything happens in modem side
16:58:07 <crun> which leads to the question of why it is different to Android.
16:58:31 <crun> (Unlike the XA2, the X10III has a very sensitive gps_
16:59:34 <rainemak> let's move on
16:59:41 <mal> I'm trying to find out if x10iii was one of those affected by the interface issue, if so then it probably wouldn't have even tried to get assisting data from network
16:59:42 <abr> Depends which Android. It's difficult to draw conclusions comparing sfos to stock android on the Xperias. You'd need a build of the same sony open devices android version to really compare, as the drivers may differ.
16:59:42 <ExTechOp> There is of course the fact that the binary blobs from Sony on Sailfish are not the same as are used on Android
17:00:16 <crun> I think the gps issue is the same as XA2 had
17:00:47 <rainemak> if needed we can continue this is in a moment in general discussion
17:00:49 <rainemak> #topic Open Pull Requests (PRs) to discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla)
17:01:13 <crun> (XA2 seemed much worse, as the GPS was less sensitive, but I am sure the fault is the same, and existed then)
17:01:51 <crun> Android GPS lock, did not change at all through the several major updates
17:02:12 <rainemak> crun, let's continue GPS topic in the general discussion after open PRs have been discussed
17:02:17 <crun> K
17:04:35 <rainemak> It looks that we can move on
17:04:37 <rainemak> #topic General discussion (10 mins)
17:04:59 <rainemak> crun, floor is ours again
17:05:05 <testeur6000[m]> Where is located this room ? General
17:05:31 <fridlmue> Regarding Jolla Phone (2/2026/how do we call it?): Is the "unreleased" Mediatek SOC for the Jolla Phone (2026) now announced by Mediatek or is this still in there pipeline?
17:05:41 <rainemak> testeur6000[m], it's like a last topic
17:06:05 <rainemak> fridlmue, we'll can back to that a bit later
17:06:07 <crun> OK
17:06:53 <CLMA31[m]> Will we have text correction (X9?) with the J2? Random question, but came to my mind...
17:07:15 <fridlmue> @reinemak perfect.
17:07:24 <ExTechOp> Can anyone say anything useful about (Android) programs suddenly "backgrounding" that has been happening for a while now?
17:07:24 <ExTechOp> https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/android-software-unexpected-backgrounding/23149/2
17:07:26 <rainemak> CLMA31[m], I'd say that not at least the one that we used to have
17:07:30 <fridlmue> *rainemak, sorry.
17:08:11 <rainemak> CLMA31[m], we should look for example to presage
17:08:44 <CLMA31[m]> And I want to thank every sailor, Sailfish is super smooth to operate and beatiful! If J2 is as polished in the launch as 10 III it will be very very nive experience ❤
17:08:46 <rainemak> those commercial prediction engine can be hilariously expensive
17:09:04 <rainemak> engines
17:09:51 <CLMA31[m]> Agree, definitely good if those can be haved as FOSS or smth
17:10:05 <rainemak> fridlmue, we'll come back to that a bit later... not can
17:11:44 <fridlmue> @rainemak guessed so ;-)
17:12:44 <testeur6000[m]> i'm interessted by maturity of sailfishos 5 for pre-order Jolla Phone, do you start from what example platform / other device official or community ?
17:13:25 <sebix[m]> testeur6000 you can already use SFOS5 on other devices
17:14:17 <rainemak> all FOSDEM related topics/items/etc have been collected to here https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/fosdem-2026-sailfish-os-meetup-and-bof/26813
17:14:35 <ExTechOp> (side question about irc: does someone have contacts with the otfc.net administrators, the certificates presented at irc.oftc.net:6697 do not seem to include that name, just liquid.oftc.net or helix.oftc.net?)
17:15:03 <ExTechOp> (oftc.net administrators, dammit)
17:16:07 <CLMA31[m]> Have to run, thank you for today! Can't wait the next update
17:16:22 <rainemak> CLMA31[m], thank you, take care
17:16:34 <CLMA31[m]> You too!
17:16:57 <testeur6000[m]> ok, but sometimes, depend on device, all interfaces/options are not good function
17:17:13 <testeur6000[m]> It's why i'm asking about pre-order jolla phone
17:18:12 <rainemak> testeur6000[m], there are different aspects, for example hardware adaptation of a device vs Sailfish OS software
17:19:09 <Keto> ExTechOp: haven't noticed any issues with the certificates. but there are instructions how to contact the staff https://oftc.net/FAQ/
17:19:58 <testeur6000[m]> yes, but, is it possible to have the functionnality or best with Jolla Phone
17:20:19 <testeur6000[m]> the same as Sony Xperia 10 III !
17:21:11 <rainemak> hardware wise Jolla Phone should be very capable
17:21:52 <rainemak> seems that discussion has silenced / calmed down -> let's schedule next meeting
17:22:00 <rainemak> #topic Next meeting time and date (2 mins)
17:22:00 <rainemak> Proposing Thursday 12th February at 04:00 PM UTC
17:22:16 <rainemak> usual 2 weeks cycle
17:22:44 <abr> +1 long enough after the fosdem BoF
17:23:45 <rainemak> #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 12th February 2026 at 04:00pm UTC: 2026-02-12T1600Z
17:24:07 <rainemak> thank you everybody! as usual very good discussion once again
17:24:13 <ExTechOp> Unfortunately that coincides with Disobey event build day here in Helsinki, so I most likely won't be able to attend. But two weeks after that!
17:24:16 <ExTechOp> Thanks everyone!
17:24:44 <fridlmue> Thanks, bye!
17:24:51 <rainemak> bye!
17:24:53 <rainemak> #endmeeting