16:00:01 <rainemak> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 9th April 2026
16:00:01 <sailbot> Meeting started Thu Apr  9 16:00:01 2026 UTC. The chair is rainemak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:01 <sailbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:01 <rainemak> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:
16:00:01 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/28681
16:00:01 <rainemak> I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive.
16:00:01 <rainemak> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info
16:00:03 <Polatbirdal> hello
16:00:05 <rainemak> #info Raine Mäkeläinen, Jolla
16:00:36 <attah> #info Anton Thomasson, community
16:01:01 <mal> #info mal, Jolla
16:01:05 <Guest6720> #info Andrea Scarpino, community
16:01:22 <Filtoid> #info
16:01:38 <abr> #info Andrew Branson, Jolla
16:01:47 <nephros> #info nephros, community
16:01:51 <sebix[m]> #info sebix, community
16:02:13 <extechop[m]> #info Otto Mäkelä, community
16:02:13 <Filtoid> #info Phil Jeffes, community
16:02:44 <rainemak> we have good amount of participants
16:04:04 <Nico> #info Nico, community
16:04:28 <rainemak> We'll try to cover all asked topics. As a reminder, please post topics 3 days before the meeting. Thank you all for posting questions.
16:05:03 <rainemak> #topic What happens if we can’t receive our Jolla J2 product from the shipping company? (5 mins -- PolatBirdal)
16:05:03 <rainemak> #info <PolatBirdal> If I don’t receive the product during this process, will I get a refund or will I lose all my money?
16:05:03 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Of course the one ordering has a bit of responsibility as well. If
16:05:04 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> one gives an address that cannot be reached, then parcel eventually
16:05:06 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> returns back to sender.
16:05:45 <Polatbirdal> In this sense, I’m sorry, there were questions I wrote with 1 day left, I didn’t know.
16:06:03 <rainemak> Please read instructions
16:07:55 <attah> As in shipping and or restocking fee might be deducted before a refund is issued?
16:08:19 <rainemak> Could you maybe elaborate Polatbirdal what you were trying to ask?
16:09:25 <Nico> They submitted a topic a day ago on the forum and were probably apologizing for having missed that part of the instructions
16:10:01 <Polatbirdal> My question is this: since there is no shipping to my country, I am planning to travel abroad to buy this phone. In the country I arrive in, since I do not fully know how the shipping process works, I may run into problems that prevent me from getting it. If I cannot get it at that moment, what happens? For a moment I wondered whether I might lose both the phone and my money.
16:10:04 <rainemak> Nico, that I understand but I think there's something behind the topic asked
16:10:12 <nephros> Anyway, if the courier loses the package, it's the couriers fault, and they must be contacted and held accountable, correct?
16:10:43 <Nico> Ah
16:10:56 <rainemak> We cannot guarantee such deliveries that you're abroad and we'd try to match that
16:11:12 <rainemak> nephros, correct.
16:11:33 <attah> *If* it is returned back to Jolla - presumably at least the majority of the cost is refunded
16:11:43 <rainemak> attah, yes
16:11:46 <nephros> Polatbirdal: So you plan on using some kind of P.O. Box or delivery forwarding srvice?
16:12:17 <rainemak> extending this topic by 5mins
16:12:36 <Polatbirdal> Yes, I will use Forward2me to make it more guaranteed
16:13:49 <rainemak> Have we covered this topic?
16:14:02 <rainemak> I think so
16:15:04 <rainemak> #topic What exactly is included in the Jolla J2 box? (5 mins -- PolatBirdal)
16:15:04 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> We have not concluded that yet. Very likely shipped without USB-C
16:15:04 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> cable and charger to reduce eWaste.
16:15:41 <rainemak> of course a leaflet of some kind
16:16:41 <rainemak> + first 10k receive a special cover
16:16:58 <rainemak> special limited edition back cover that is
16:17:09 <attah> If a nice cable is not in the cards, no cable at all sounds fine
16:17:52 <rainemak> attah, let's see how it goes
16:18:00 <rainemak> I'd not like to include anything extra
16:19:58 <rainemak> moving forward in a minute
16:20:02 <rainemak> #topic privacy switch (5 mins -- PolatBirdal)
16:20:02 <rainemak> #info <PolatBirdal> Can you clarify whether the privacy switch is a true hardware
16:20:02 <rainemak> #info <PolatBirdal> kill switch or a software-controlled function linked to a
16:20:02 <rainemak> #info <PolatBirdal> physical button?
16:20:04 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Privacy Switch is a user configurable physical switch. You can for
16:20:06 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> example turn off your microphone, bluetooth, or AppSupport.
16:20:08 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Privacy switch does not have galvanic connection to the
16:20:10 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> hardware.
16:20:34 <Guest6910> Hi, will the Jolla Phone support USB DisplayPort Alt Mode?
16:20:43 <rainemak> Privacy Switch will be made open source. You can then go and audit it etc.
16:20:46 <attah> Keep to topic.
16:21:02 <rainemak> Guest6910, there will be general discussion at the end
16:21:14 <attah> Configurable should have been a strong clue that it is software
16:21:32 <Guest6910> Oh okay :)
16:21:42 <rainemak> Indeed, that's there in the product page as well
16:21:51 <Nico> But most likely some parts of the firmware will still have to rely on proprietary drivers like the camera or modem, right?
16:22:14 <Nico> (Some people are concerned about state level actors or hackers taking advantage of that, but otoh, you can't have everything sadly)
16:22:45 <rainemak> Nico, there are probably some like that
16:23:37 <extechop[m]> (with state level actors, rubber hose cryptography will seem like a more probable attack vector)
16:23:39 <attah> So after software having read the button status, determined that it is the camera you want turned off - is effecting that fully software, or like a GPIO thing?
16:24:09 <nephros> Will there be some kind of (Silica?) API so apps can eaily react to it?
16:24:20 <rainemak> attah, as well as we can go with SW
16:24:31 <nephros> Also, does the switch have more than two states?
16:24:35 <attah> okidoki
16:24:47 <rainemak> nephros, that's idea eventually -> probably not in the 1st release
16:25:00 <rainemak> nephros, two states
16:25:12 <rainemak> we were considering 3 states as ewll
16:25:14 <rainemak> well
16:26:17 <Filtoid> will the switch be able to isolate the SIM/data connection?
16:26:35 <Filtoid> like Airplane mode
16:26:46 <rainemak> Filtoid, Airplane mode is on the plans
16:27:28 <rainemak> one core thing these is that it can do multiple actions on one switch
16:28:05 <rainemak> think of going library and you'd like to go silent
16:28:11 <Polatbirdal> Yes, this phone impressed me the most from this aspect
16:28:21 <rainemak> silent + AppSupport off could be one solution
16:28:58 <rainemak> silent == nothing plays a tone
16:29:56 <rainemak> let's move on, I think this is pretty much covered
16:30:03 <rainemak> #topic Progress about ICE field on lock screen (5 mins -- asked by ilpianista)
16:30:03 <rainemak> #info <ilpianista> ICE (In Case Of Emergency) field on lock screen. Maybe a patch
16:30:04 <rainemak> #info <ilpianista> exists, but I don’t think the average user should use patches.
16:30:04 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/ice-in-case-of-emergency-field-on-lock-screen/6726
16:30:06 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Adapting or creating something similar would be nice. We 100% agree,
16:30:08 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> average user should not be using patches.
16:31:13 <Guest6720> Thanks. My question is more about: do I/the community have access to all the code involved to open a PR about it?
16:31:19 <rainemak> Nice to see ilpianista again
16:31:37 <Guest6720> nice to see you again :-)
16:32:09 <rainemak> Guest6720, it depends of course from the approach
16:32:29 <rainemak> but I'd say not
16:32:57 <Guest6720> as I said, I don't want users to modify qml files. Are you going to opensource those parts?
16:33:12 <rainemak> I don't recall whether it was this or the next one but those patches are not too well isolated
16:33:45 <Polatbirdal> Well, I know this will be a bit of a newly asked question, but what is your progress on the The Other Half project? Has a keyboard module been designed at all?
16:34:06 <rainemak> Not part of the next ones but we do continue open sourcing closed when we have a bit of time
16:34:19 <attah> Polatbirdal: can we please just do things in the proper order?
16:34:34 <rainemak> Polatbirdal, stay on topic -> please ask on general discussion topic
16:35:30 <rainemak> This sounds like covered
16:35:43 <rainemak> moving on
16:35:45 <rainemak> #topic Option to scramble PIN layout (5 mins -- asked by ilpianista)
16:35:45 <rainemak> #info <ilpianista> Option to scramble PIN layout when unlocking device. Scrambled
16:35:45 <rainemak> #info <ilpianista> PIN layout like in GrapheneOS. Offer option to scramble PIN
16:35:45 <rainemak> #info <ilpianista> layout when unlocking device - together.jolla.com . Maybe a
16:35:45 <rainemak> #info <ilpianista> patch exists, but I don’t think the average user should use
16:35:46 <rainemak> #info <ilpianista> patches.
16:35:48 <rainemak> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/option-to-scramble-pin-layout-when-unlocking-device/6944
16:35:50 <rainemak> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/80077/offer-option-to-scramble-pin-layout-when-unlocking-device/
16:35:53 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Creating something similar would be nice. We 100% agree,
16:35:55 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> average user should not be using patches. Should not be enabled by
16:35:57 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> default but could be an option in the device lock settings.
16:35:59 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> The patch itself is not ready to be used as such. A bit of
16:36:01 <Guest6720> rainemak nice to hear that. I'm concerned because I left this community almost 2 years ago and that one is still missing. Let's hope code arrives soon.
16:36:01 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> updating / editing would be required.
16:38:52 <Guest6720> Same as before: is code open for this?
16:40:18 <rainemak> Keypad is not but there would be more need for proper implementation
16:40:37 <rainemak> needed
16:40:44 <attah> If this is the sort of thing that is high up on people's mind, SFOS is in far better shape for normal users than i thought (:
16:42:04 <Guest6720> I don’t think I fall into the category of normal users ;-)
16:42:23 <attah> That is very fair
16:42:39 <extechop[m]> (I don't think anyone who thinks of using SFOS really falls into that category)
16:42:43 <abr> what's the reason to scramble the pin layout? seems quite annoying...
16:42:48 <rainemak> ah, we are over time again -> 5mins extra for this
16:43:04 <extechop[m]> abr: avoid shoulder surfing for unlocking
16:43:36 <attah> But i really meant high in anyone's prio list, then everything else must be quite good
16:43:54 <attah> Fingerprint readers do that for me
16:43:57 <rainemak> how aggressively you scramble is also one aspect
16:44:20 <abr> seems very niche to me :)
16:44:35 <attah> my point exactly
16:44:36 <rainemak> it could go even to an extend to scrambling on each stroke
16:44:40 <rainemak> same for me
16:45:02 <Guest6720> I mean is a quick change. First user did ask for that 11 years ago.
16:45:20 <nephros> It could make a bit more sense if it is combined with using pictograms instead of numbers.
16:45:43 <rainemak> having something like this as opt-in could be probably ok
16:45:48 <nephros> SO I have to remember my code is "mouse-tree-flower-boat".
16:46:38 <abr> Ok, but I wouldn't be concerned that it's not been implemented in two years. I don't think there's a lot of demand for that sort of thing. I think the most demanded thing around the PIN is being able to use it in android apps.
16:46:41 <nephros> This way, a scrambler will appear less annoying, and may actually improve security (not by scrambling but maybe by password length).
16:46:54 <Nico> I use an alphanumeric code, since short digit sequences aren't really safe without a HSM. Entering that on a scrambled keyboard would be madness
16:47:33 <Guest6720> actually, I’ve never thought of using an alphanumeric one
16:48:02 <abr> correct horse battery staple! I still remember that one.
16:48:14 <abr> That's a great idea, and very scramblable
16:48:39 <Nico> Your 6 digit pin can be quite easily cracked, if someone can pull the data from your storage, which is not that hard with unlocked bootloaders in many cases
16:49:07 <rainemak> 32 chats with alpha-numeric
16:49:12 <rainemak> chars
16:49:56 <rainemak> Guest6720, maybe alpha-numeric is a solution for you or similar cases
16:50:19 <rainemak> moving on
16:50:21 <rainemak> #topic Option to automatically mount encrypted sdcard (5 mins -- asked by ilpianista)
16:50:21 <rainemak> #info <ilpianista> Mount luks encrypted SD-Card automatically. A workaround
16:50:21 <rainemak> #info <ilpianista> exists, but I don’t think the average user should use that.
16:50:21 <rainemak> #info <Jolla> Same as above. Point noted.
16:54:27 <rainemak> covered as well. moving on
16:54:28 <rainemak> #topic Open Pull Requests (PRs) to discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla)
16:55:10 <attah> I don't actually think this is entirely correct or complete... but none the less: https://github.com/sailfishos/docs.sailfishos.org/pull/458
16:55:10 <rainemak> abr, did you get those Weather improvements in already?
16:55:30 <abr> second PR merged this afternoon
16:55:43 <attah> Did i mention typographic quotes should be banned?
16:56:23 <abr> xD
16:57:42 <rainemak> attah, do you mean: "Enter password here" :-)
16:58:24 <attah> Hmm?
16:58:34 <Polatbirdal> :D
16:58:45 <rainemak> entering that as a password
16:59:23 <attah> No i fully understand to substitute things, but the silly-quotes are a syntax error in the terminal
16:59:28 <rainemak> abr, I have coming but it has been coming for 2days -> no time
17:00:12 <nephros> #link https://github.com/sailfishos/sailjail-permissions/issues
17:00:29 <nephros> oops sorry I meant:
17:00:38 <nephros> #link https://github.com/sailfishos/sailjail-permissions/pull/150
17:00:50 <attah> or rather silly-quotes make it into the file, and normal ones do not
17:01:14 <nephros> I really believe this ^^^ small change would benefit all of the QT-based apps which use positioning.
17:01:55 <nephros> However, I think I understand Pekka's conscerns regarding privacy.
17:02:20 <abr> attah: ah you mean the funny double quotes? the 66 99 ones?
17:02:22 <rainemak> further, I think there should be an API
17:02:54 <rainemak> do we have this covered?
17:02:55 <attah> abr: yes, they have no place in code/terminals/...
17:03:00 <abr> fair
17:03:27 <rainemak> moving on 5mins past
17:03:27 <attah> happy to move on
17:03:52 <rainemak> let's move on already
17:03:52 <rainemak> #topic General discussion (10 mins)
17:03:56 <attah> Any chance on self-serving on canceling phone orders? (I have two orders, but actually only one preorder voucher).
17:04:15 <rainemak> attah, PM me
17:04:30 <rainemak> attah, I don't think so
17:04:42 <attah> Okidoki
17:04:44 <PThereforeQ> rainemak: Is there a minimum age requirement for the Helsinki Jolla Phone delivery celebration event?
17:04:59 <mal> just a small addition to the previous topic, pulseaudio update was finally merged
17:05:17 <sebix[m]> any news on the AAS BT solution? 🙃
17:05:54 <attah> mal: Wow!
17:06:30 <abr> sebix[m]: It's nearly ready. Doing some more testing but it should be good to go as soon as some professionals have tried to break it for a while.
17:06:51 <rainemak> I'd say, now age requirements for the Jolla Phone Day1 event
17:06:51 <abr> and then i've glued the pieces back together
17:06:59 <attah> abr: NFC next, pretty please?
17:06:59 <Linux_> Hi, will the Jolla Phone support USB-C DisplayPort Alt Mode?
17:07:01 <rainemak> but let us clarify
17:07:23 <rainemak> Linux_, afaiu now it does not
17:07:33 <sebix[m]> abr: yay :) I'm happy to beta test it if required and if it makes sense
17:07:54 <abr> attah: reminds me, we should enable that feature in AAS so people can try to do the bridging thing they did with bt before this. i have no idea if it'll work but you'll have fun trying.
17:07:55 <rainemak> further, it's not only about that... but also something that should be implemented to Sailfish OS
17:07:56 <nephros> Forum topic about that Alt Mode thing: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/will-the-jolla-phone-2026-support-usb-displayport-alt-mode/28094
17:08:31 <abr> sebix[m]: I wouldn't if I were you. This is a thing that can really stop your device booting if it's not quite right.
17:09:08 <attah> abr: Nice
17:09:31 <abr> had some lovely bootloops during development I can tell you.
17:09:40 <Linux_> Okay, what are the main challenges implementing DP Alt Mode? Are you Jolla employee?
17:09:41 <rainemak> sebix[m], soon availableTM
17:09:56 <rainemak> Linux_, I am
17:10:08 <rainemak> Linux_, see introduction at the beginning
17:10:56 <rainemak> Linux_, I don't have all the details... but I think ran out of USB lines
17:11:01 <rainemak> we ran
17:11:28 <rainemak> count my word as Jolla
17:11:33 <attah> SFOS has no support for outputting to a second monitor on the SW side either, right?
17:11:51 <rainemak> attah, correct -> that requires a bit of work
17:11:55 <Linux_> introduction? I can't see😅
17:11:56 <attah> (But i still think DP alt mode would be nice for if and when that happens)
17:12:44 <rainemak> attah, for various reasons
17:12:52 <sebix[m]> Linux_: Linux_: 1 hour and 10 minutest ago
17:13:08 <attah> Ran out of USB lanes on what?
17:13:16 <rainemak> attah, hw
17:13:34 <rainemak> sw missing as well
17:13:42 <Linux_> attah, Maybe but I think it's important for tinkering with other distros and also with SFOS in the future.
17:13:53 <attah> I was thinking *logically* and couldn't make that fit
17:14:17 <rainemak> attah, The Other Half might have reserved some
17:14:19 <rainemak> :-)
17:14:43 <attah> Interesting
17:17:10 <rainemak> attah, that's one aspect
17:17:21 <Linux_> Would it be possible to cut lines for The Other Half and bring DP Alt with a custom sub/charging board? I.e. does the SoC and mainboard itself support DP Alt Mode?
17:18:08 <rainemak> Linux_, I don't think so
17:18:29 <Linux_> :/
17:18:59 <rainemak> Are we done for this fortnight community meeting
17:19:14 <Polatbirdal> Will the other half be postponed?
17:19:23 <Linux_> And Jolla doesn't have any other plans for DisplayPort?
17:19:47 <attah> Polatbirdal: what gave you that idea?
17:19:59 <rainemak> Polatbirdal, I don't understand what you are asking?
17:20:14 <rainemak> attah, thanks
17:21:21 <attah> Nice to have caught the meeting for once. Should do this more often.
17:21:22 <rainemak> we're working on opening 3d models
17:21:29 <rainemak> attah, +1
17:21:42 <rainemak> let's schedule next one
17:21:51 <rainemak> #topic Next meeting time and date (2 mins)
17:21:57 <rainemak> Proposing Thursday 23rd April at 03:00 PM UTC
17:22:07 <nephros> sure!
17:22:12 <rainemak> For me 1hour earlier works better
17:22:35 <rainemak> last time we skipped summer time change
17:22:36 <Polatbirdal> [9.04.2026 20:14] Sailfish OS Meeting: <rainemak>attah, The Other Half might have made some reservations (I understood it as postponed, the translator translated it a bit incorrectly)
17:22:38 <abr> +1
17:23:13 <abr> Polatbirdal: he was talking about hardware wiring. the conversation was about if the phone could be modified to support video out over usb
17:23:23 <attah> Whatever today was is as early as i can do... but don't schedule from my availability
17:23:36 <extechop[m]> So 18:00 in Helsinki time zone.
17:23:43 <extechop[m]> Works4me.
17:23:48 <rainemak> 18:00 HKI
17:24:12 <rainemak> I have allocated 90mins for this and I can go long as well
17:24:45 <rainemak> when we have many questions, this tends to prolong
17:25:07 <rainemak> have a good long discussion biweekly is much appreciated
17:25:16 <rainemak> I think we had good one today as well
17:25:26 <rainemak> actually very good
17:26:01 <rainemak> 03:00 PM UTC or 04:00 PM UTC?
17:26:21 <Polatbirdal> Yes, I’m really glad you exist, you answered many of my questions. This idea of doing a meeting is very good, I’m glad you exist.
17:26:58 <attah> My vote is on 4 - but given my track record, my vote hold little weight
17:27:00 <extechop[m]> I'd say 15:00Z
17:28:28 <extechop[m]> Doesn't make much difference for anyone else?
17:28:36 <rainemak> others: abr mal direc85[m] Keto other from Jolla?
17:29:16 <rainemak> others
17:29:43 <rainemak> extechop[m], can you make 4 UTC, 19:00 HKI?
17:30:26 <extechop[m]> Can do, but as I said, 18:00 Helsinki = 15:00Z works a bit easier for me.
17:30:27 <rainemak> let's go with this later one
17:30:43 <rainemak> extechop[m], same for me but haven't see attah for a while
17:30:52 <rainemak> #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 23rd April 2026 at 04:00pm UTC: 2026-04-23T1600Z
17:30:57 <rainemak> thank you all!
17:31:09 <rainemak> this kind of meetings I like
17:31:14 <attah> thank you for hosting
17:31:44 <Polatbirdal> The meeting was great.
17:31:49 <Filtoid> +1 thank you :)
17:32:06 <rainemak> #endmeeting