16:00:03 #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- October 1, 2026 16:00:03 Meeting started Thu Oct 1 16:00:03 2026 UTC. The chair is Keto. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:00:03 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 16:00:07 Hello everyone :) 16:00:18 #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here: 16:00:19 #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/33735 16:00:37 I am the meeting's co-chairperson today with Keto, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive. 16:00:37 #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info 16:00:45 #info Otto Mäkelä, community 16:00:50 #info Raine Mäkeläinen, Jolla 16:00:55 #info pherjung, community 16:01:07 #info Michal Kasík, community, Jolla Phone 2026 user 16:01:27 #info Pami Ketolainen, Jolla 16:02:43 #info Nico, community 16:03:45 #info Andrew Branson, sailing by 16:04:52 let's start in a moment and check action points 16:05:10 #topic Tracking of non-resolved Community Meeting topics 16:05:10 #action Community task board 16:05:10 #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-23rd-april-2026/29030/3 16:05:10 #action Jolla to update regarding recommended charging cables and chargers. 16:05:10 #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-7th-may-2026/29253/2 16:05:13 #action The Privacy Switch in relation to Ambiances 16:05:15 #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-july-16-2026/30378/7 16:05:17 #info No actions taken yet regarding community task board nor charger / cables. 16:06:43 one moment, I think Keto needs to redo above 16:07:35 well, they are now in first topic, lets just move on 16:07:47 #topic Quick app switching gesture (5 mins -- jojomen) 16:09:02 #info The Quick App Switching gesture works really well and I find 16:09:02 #info it essential in my everyday phone usage. Apparently, I’m not 16:09:02 #info alone in this: Switching between 2 apps more easilly (eg 16:09:02 #info password manager) 16:09:02 #info 16:09:04 #info Edit: This has also been frequently requested by many new 16:09:05 #info members brought here by the Jolla Phone. 16:09:07 #info 16:09:09 #info However, to enable the gesture one has to issue a dconf 16:09:13 #info command in the terminal. Please, could we have a toggle for 16:09:15 #info this gesture in the Settings app, section Gestures? 16:09:17 #info 16:09:19 #info (It can also be set from the pulley menu of the Edge Swipe 16:09:21 #info Control app by @nephros, but it is still pretty hidden.) 16:09:23 #info Yes, we should have hidden used configuration values visible 16:09:25 #info somewhere. Not a high priority item thou. 16:09:27 I'm personally using quick app switching as well. 16:09:46 #info nephros, community, observing... 16:10:53 Let's see how we should handle this... I'm thinking open source Settings plugin. Maybe Sailfish Labs or such. 16:11:05 Exposing UI should be relatively simple addition to Setttings. Community could do it. 16:11:17 Question is where to send the fils. 16:11:20 *files. 16:11:23 Yeah, I do use the quick switch as well and it seems like a shame, that it isn't exposed currently to more users :D 16:11:27 open-sourcing settings plugin would be awesome 16:11:45 is there somereason to not just add it to the gestures settings? 16:12:22 Keto: yea, seems like 1 TextSwitch and 7 lines of code or so. 16:12:23 imo, can go there as well... but that's closed 16:12:44 Is there a specific reason it needs to be closed? 16:12:44 I think this more broadly as we have tons of these 16:13:35 I'm not quite sure I understand the scope of what Patchmanager can and can't do, could it make the appropriate additions there? 16:13:45 OK, so maybe "github.com:sailfishos/sailfish-settings-labs" , and we put Setting entrie sand things there for review? 16:13:53 I have 12 in my list 16:14:00 extechop[m]: yes, that's trivial. 16:14:16 nephros, something like that 16:14:38 we could there have sections like Gestures, App Grip, Animations, etc... 16:14:49 or even sub-pages 16:15:03 12! I only know that one and the LPM 16:15:20 something like the utilities app maybe 16:15:24 or even part of that 16:15:26 or use patchmanager and once it's mature merge to the system? 16:15:41 in fact utilities is already open 16:15:43 pherjung[m], I'd rather not use patchmanager 16:15:57 abr, that's wrong direction as well 16:16:31 But wouldn't Patchmanager make a good light-weight "proof of concept" and people could try the feature out? 16:16:46 there is no proof-of-concept 16:17:00 more like x number of dconf keys 16:17:34 Well, here's one PoC: https://github.com/nephros/peekfilter-button/blob/master/jolla-settings/pages/peekfilter-button/AdvancedPage.qml 16:17:45 In this case, a test to see if people would want to have feature X. 16:18:09 or start a debate what should be improved 16:18:11 nephros, it's exactly what I'm thinking with this Labs 16:18:21 experimental features 16:19:06 I'm curious, what are the issues to use patchmanager to provide experimental features? 16:19:09 i'm surprised there isn't already an app to set these values 16:19:17 pherjung[m], it's not for everybody 16:19:31 not sure to understand 16:19:33 I'd like to get these values for broader use 16:19:35 I think the features are already implemented, so patchmanager isn't really needed 16:19:42 it's just config that's missing 16:19:43 abr: there's a couple of patchmanager patches out there, some use these dconf keys. 16:19:49 Experimental features surely are not for everyone. 16:20:16 oh, that make sense. But it means such features would be already mature to not break the system? 16:20:16 extechop[m], you miss the point 16:20:36 trying out "Quick app switching" and make it simple enough 16:20:59 Without mice and lab assistants, what's the use of an experimental feature? :) 16:21:42 We need to write it down, otherwise it's just messing around, like the Mythbusters said. 16:21:43 "Experimental Features" <- from the above peekfilter-button 16:21:46 perhaps the word experimental is not the good one 16:22:07 no need to decide it here 16:22:11 it's matter of open PR 16:22:28 if you are happy with sailfish-settings-labs -> then I'll create one 16:22:36 and BSD-3 license 16:22:37 +1 16:22:41 +1 16:22:42 +1 <3 16:22:43 Heh just spotted a bug in that peekfilter-button page. 16:23:11 #action Jolla to create sailfish-settings-labs 16:23:21 let's move on 16:23:31 ^ Oh yeah! I have two or three "apps" that go there, and I guess there's a selection of patchmanager patches as well. 16:23:31 Keto, next topic 16:23:33 #topic Harbour policy: allowing a bundled helper executable (10 mins -- muhnschein) 16:23:46 #info Harbour only allows ELF files at /usr/bin/ or as .so 16:23:46 #info libraries under /usr/share//lib/. This blocks apps 16:23:46 #info like Piirit that bundle an upstream helper binary and run 16:23:46 #info it as a subprocess. There are many legitimate use cases for 16:23:46 #info this. 16:23:48 #info 16:23:49 #info Proposal: allow ELF executables in an app-private directory 16:23:51 #info (e.g. /usr/libexec//), under the same conditions as 16:23:53 #info the main binary (no setuid/setgid, no group/world-writable 16:23:55 #info modes, dynamic libraries on the allow-list). 16:23:57 #info 16:23:59 #info More context: Harbour policy: allowing a bundled helper 16:24:01 #info executable (re Piirit). 16:24:03 #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/33807 16:24:05 #info Open discussion on this. 16:24:44 May I? First-timer, bear with me. 16:25:08 Basically what it says on the tin. 16:25:09 please do 16:25:13 work on Piirit, a messenger based on Delta Chat. Piirit bundles Delta Chat's official `deltachat-rpc-server` companion binary, as is recommended by them. (The alternatives are a deprecated upstream interface or one that upstream does not recommend themselves.) 16:25:22 Harbour allows only one executable per app, and this helper binary is in /usr/libexec/harbour-piirit/deltachat-rpc-server; so validation obviously fails (3 errors overall). 16:25:42 Proposal therefore, as stated above: Allow ELF executables in a single app-private directory, e.g., /usr/libexec//, and adjust the validator accordingly. 16:25:50 background daemon discussion has been long lasting topic 16:25:54 (As a bonus, vige already said this could work and offered to prepare the validator PR. *cough* :-) ) 16:26:09 rainemak: Yup, this is not that though. 16:26:30 This is only supposed to run while the app is running. Gone when app is gone. 16:26:42 but should work with a sandbox and I think be compatible 16:27:01 those kind of sailjail rules could be created 16:27:27 yeah i guess it would be invoked by the app, so runs in the sandbox with it? 16:27:41 abr, that's what I'm thinking 16:27:42 Yup, that's the idea, same namespace 16:28:24 sounds good to me 16:28:30 any other thoughts... 16:28:53 thats all from my end. i'd appreciate the change. 16:28:56 light-weight steps towards real background daemons 16:29:00 yeah 16:29:17 though i wouldn't like to say those could be any binary 16:29:48 abr: agreed. if these would come with a more involved harbour review, that'd be fine by me. 16:30:28 we'd have to make sure that closing the app also terminated the sandbox until then. i think it might do already 16:31:20 No biggie, but if that dir were /usr/share/appname/bin instead of /usr/libexec/appname, this would make apps easier to "relocate", i.e. change the installation root path. 16:31:25 doesn't sound too bad too me either 16:31:43 nephros, +1 16:31:52 or /opt 16:32:07 binaries in /usr/share though? 16:32:24 abr: it's iffy, but already allowed and the case. 16:32:38 let's take that separately. I think we have common understanding that we could have 2nd binary with an app 16:32:49 <3 16:33:04 nice, thanks 16:33:43 #action Iron out bundled helper executable (https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-october-1-2026/33735/4) 16:33:59 let's move... sorry this went long as ewll 16:34:01 well 16:34:12 ^ Keto 16:34:18 #topic Touchscreen nearby taps detected as drag gesture (bug?) (5mins -- asked by nicov84) 16:34:33 #info As per BUG report by @HtheB, the touchscreen seems to detect 16:34:33 #info subsequent, close distance taps as drags. This causes some 16:34:33 #info apps (standard keyboard, futo keyboard) to misbehave. 16:34:33 #info For the standard keyboard, this results in sudden layout 16:34:33 #info changes. For futo, in problematic swiping and typos. 16:34:34 #info Is this a hardware issue or can the sensitivity/behavior be 16:34:36 #info tuned in software? 16:34:38 #info Two near-simultaneous taps with different fingers are 16:34:40 #info delivered as a single touch point dragging between them 16:34:44 #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/33237 16:34:54 #info This is more like a bug report. Not much to discuss. 16:34:54 #info Doubt that two different fingers are treated as a single touch 16:34:54 #info point. Gesture it could probably trigger. Impossible to comment 16:34:55 #info about a single use case / error. We'll note this to internal 16:34:56 #info issue tracker. 16:35:06 I think I have seen this with Sailfish virtual keyboard whilst typing but it is long time since I saw it. When this happens with Sailfish vkb, it triggers keyboard layout change. 16:35:34 there are few event filters maybe those are causing some issues 16:36:05 I suspect I've seen this under Android apps like c:geo where occasionally a tap is suddenly read as a very quick swipe, and your map suddenly goes flying past you. 16:36:38 I don't think we create synthetic touch events 16:37:04 thus, it should be different event 16:37:42 #action Issue to be reported 16:37:48 let's move on 16:38:12 Keto, next please :-) 16:38:26 next one is quick one, no need to spend time there 16:38:51 I have noticed dragging with mouse in android apps goes wild sometimes, don't know if related in any way 16:39:20 mouse event could actually be 16:39:39 switching keyboard layouts too easily too 16:40:01 abr, that's the issue that I'm seeing... or have seen 16:40:58 anyhow, needs investigation. moving on 16:41:23 #topic Visibility of spare parts for the Jolla Phone at commerce.jolla.com (5 mins -- asked by jojomen) 16:41:40 #info I didn’t find the spare parts in the new shop and assumed they 16:41:40 #info were just not available yet. But then I stumbled upon this 16:41:40 #info comment Are the Jolla phones not shipping to the USA? - #26 by 16:41:42 #info makrolon, where it turns out they are just a bit hidden. 16:41:43 #info 16:41:45 #info Could we have all items visible by default in the online shop, 16:41:47 #info please? Or, if that would be too cluttered, at least a clearly 16:41:49 #info visible option to show the different categories/collections 16:41:51 #info you have defined. 16:41:53 #info 16:41:56 #info more comments and suggestions: Are the Jolla phones not 16:41:57 #info shipping to the USA? - #27 by teleshoes. 16:41:59 #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/are-the-jolla-phones-not-shipping-to-the-usa/28756/26 16:42:01 #link https://commerce.jolla.com/collections/jolla-phone-accessories 16:42:03 #info Know improvement topic. Noted. 16:42:05 Known 16:42:44 Let's move on. 16:43:30 #topic Jolla Store: Fix screenshot presentation (5 mins -- asked by muhnschein) 16:43:49 #info Jolla Store seems to crop screenshots submitted via 16:43:49 #info Harbour. Without having measured them, these seem like the 16:43:49 #info screen dimensions of the original Jolla Phone. Screenshots 16:43:49 #info with other dimensions are cropped so that top and bottom 16:43:49 #info are missing. 16:43:50 #info 16:43:52 #info While some work around this with letterboxing, this is 16:43:54 #info evident in most of the apps recently added to the store: 16:43:56 #info 16:43:58 #info Sail Prompt 16:44:00 #info Straps 16:44:02 #info Cookbook 16:44:04 #info Radar (Find my Device) 16:44:06 #info BitSailor 16:44:08 #info Meliona 16:44:12 #info Frostlife 16:44:14 #info Sailstream for Plex 16:44:16 #info 16:44:18 #info This is neither mentioned in the Harbour interface nor 16:44:20 #info strictly necessary - and rather unfortunate for the 16:44:22 #info developers. 16:44:24 #info 16:44:26 #info I’m kindly asking for this to be fixed and hope that this 16:44:28 #info is the right place. 16:44:30 #info Thank you for raising this one. We'll create an internal issue. 16:44:32 We are working on Android apk intake improvements. This was asked by MikkoTenhunen in follow up comment. 16:45:02 Great to hear, thanks. In that case I don't think I have much more to add. 16:45:40 Can I kindly ask that whatever you decide on (scale-to-fit, letterbox, desired dimensions) I also clearly mentioned in Harbour? 16:45:43 well spotted 16:46:15 *is 16:47:48 indeed, well spotted 16:48:54 alright, let's move on 16:49:23 Keto, ^ 16:49:37 #topic Android App Support: PIN Code and Authentication Issues (10 mins -- asked by MikkoTenhunen) 16:50:06 ooh 16:50:23 #info Many Android applications that rely on secure 16:50:23 #info authentication methods appear to have problems inside 16:50:23 #info Sailfish OS Android App Support. I would like to know 16:50:23 #info whether Jolla has made progress on fixing Android PIN 16:50:23 #info code, biometric authentication, and secure credential 16:50:24 #info storage related issues. 16:50:26 #info 16:50:28 #info In particular: 16:50:30 #info - Do banking applications now support PIN code 16:50:32 #info authentication correctly? 16:50:34 #info - Do authenticator applications (2FA/TOTP apps) work 16:50:36 #info reliably with device security features? 16:50:38 #info - Are there known limitations in Android App Support 16:50:40 #info regarding Android Keystore, biometric APIs, or PIN 16:50:44 #info protected authentication? 16:50:46 #info - Is there an estimated roadmap or planned improvements 16:50:48 #info for banking and authentication apps? 16:50:50 #info 16:50:52 #info This information would help users understand the current 16:50:54 #info status of Android application compatibility and security 16:50:56 #info related functionality on Sailfish OS. 16:50:58 #info We are looking into this. Too early to comment. Let's hope that 16:51:00 #info we'd have some improvements integrated for Sailfish OS 5.3 16:51:02 #info release. 16:51:09 ooh 16:51:10 We said in hacking that 5.3 could go to CBeta by end of October 16:51:34 👍️ Hopefully soon this fix 16:52:35 There are many components involved and touching device lock and friends cannot really lock people out from their device 16:52:54 MikkoTenhunen[m], tricky task 16:54:23 yeah i think it's a lot more complex than it seems. not just some sort of 'passthrough' 16:54:37 abr, indeed 16:55:11 let's see what can we make for 5.3 16:56:12 let's move on 16:56:25 #topic Community Port - X10V and X10IV AAS update (5 mins -- asked by sharks) 16:56:30 #info jojomen, community 16:56:40 hi everyone, sorry I'm late to the party 16:56:46 no worry 16:56:47 #info Per the 03/09/26 community meeting, I’ve attempted reaching out 16:56:47 #info a few times over the last month on #sailfishos on IRC to see if 16:56:47 #info anyone from Jolla can let me know what is required of me to 16:56:47 #info assist / accelerate AAS progress for the community port. 16:56:48 #info 16:56:49 #info Given I’ve not received any reply, I am reaching out again 16:56:51 #info here. Are you able to give us any news? After all, the squeaky 16:56:53 #info wheel gets the grease. 16:56:55 #info We understand the desire for this. However, we haven't had 16:56:57 #info chance to test this yet. For Xperia 10 IV and 10 V communinity 16:56:59 #info ports we'd need AppSupport that is Android 15 based (simplest 16:57:01 #info this way). Along with Sailfish OS 5.2 we should get AppSupport 16:57:03 #info upgraded for Jolla C2 to Android 15 base. This should pawe the 16:57:05 #info way towards getting AppSupport for 10IV and 10V community ports. 16:57:07 #info Bear with us and give us a bit more time on this. 16:58:24 Good news/forecast/no-promises for the C2! 16:58:47 It should be already there 16:59:21 :) 17:00:52 we could move to next topic I think 17:00:57 didn't anyone notice? 17:01:13 abr, notice what? 17:01:24 C2 AppSupport15 is not yet public 17:01:39 ooh ssh 17:01:48 Damn, just switching mine on to update ;) 17:01:52 xD 17:02:33 soon 17:02:35 public release for all supported devices should be too far 17:02:49 great 17:03:18 #topic Jolla Phone 2026 Wi-Fi hardware: 1x1 or 2x2 MIMO? (5 mins -- asked by MiPal75) 17:03:41 #info Could Jolla please confirm one specific hardware specification 17:03:42 #info of the Jolla Phone 2026 WLAN subsystem: 17:03:42 #info 17:03:43 #info Is the Jolla Phone 2026 physically designed for 1x1 or 2x2 Wi-Fi MIMO? 17:03:45 #info 17:03:47 #info Several real-world tests indicate that the Jolla Phone 2026 17:03:49 #info currently operates using only one spatial stream. This has 17:03:51 #info been reproduced by more than one user and with different 17:03:53 #info access points. At the same time, iw phy phy0 info advertises 17:03:55 #info HE MCS support for both NSS 1 and NSS 2. 17:03:57 #info 17:03:59 #info There is an existing forum discussion with measurements here: 17:04:01 #info 17:04:03 #info I have also asked Jolla Customer Care for clarification but 17:04:05 #info have not received an answer. 17:04:07 #info 17:04:09 #info I am specifically not asking whether the current Wi-Fi 17:04:13 #info connection happens to operate as 1x1. I would like to clarify 17:04:15 #info the physical design of the phone: 17:04:17 #info 17:04:19 #info If the WLAN hardware/RF/antenna design is 1x1, then the 17:04:21 #info observed behaviour is expected and the question is 17:04:23 #info answered. 17:04:25 #info 17:04:27 #info If the phone is physically designed for 2x2, then the fact 17:04:29 #info that multiple devices appear to operate as 1x1 may warrant 17:04:31 #info investigation of the driver, firmware or configuration. 17:04:33 #info 17:04:35 #info A confirmation from the Jolla hardware team of “1x1” or “2x2” 17:04:37 #info would therefore be sufficient. 17:04:39 #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/jolla-phone-2026-wi-fi-6-throughput-appears-limited-to-400-mbit-s-480-mbit-s-phy/32719 17:04:44 #info Jolla Phone 2026 has 1x1 MIMO 17:05:29 Thank you for the clear answer, that resolves it for me. 17:06:07 Great thank 17:06:29 Is the limitation in the SoC or somewhere else, like antenna 17:06:31 Is the limitation in the SoC or somewhere else, like antenna? 17:08:07 jojomen, unfortunately I don't have an answer for that 17:08:19 That's fine, was just curious :) 17:08:27 I don't even know what MIMO means :b 17:08:42 Multiple Input Multiple Opinions ;) 17:09:01 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIMO 17:09:11 I think they're one of the eurovision entries 17:09:26 abr :D 17:09:59 and I'm in Transit :-) 17:10:01 You're not thinking of t.A.T.u? 17:10:17 ok, let's move on 17:10:24 #topic Open Pull Requests (PRs) to discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla) 17:10:57 esr153 PRs were merged... we should give a look to PRs from nephros next 17:10:59 rainemak: no you're in A Transit 17:11:49 I'll post a photo to the IRC minutes 17:12:07 Nice work on the browser! 17:12:33 pretty cool how people are creating their own browsers on top of the new engine 17:12:37 that's how it should be 17:12:50 browsers everywhere and no chromium :P 17:12:55 yeap, some awesome 17:13:01 +1 17:13:09 s/some// 17:14:41 4 PRs from nephros that we should check after new browser lands 17:15:27 Thanks all, I have to leave now. Have a nice evening! 17:15:39 You too! 17:15:42 MiPal75, thanks... welcome to join next time as well 17:16:15 let's move on 17:16:38 #topic General discussion (10 mins) 17:17:11 Just installed 5.2.0.18 and it at least booted! 17:17:27 extechop[m], which device 17:18:11 Jolla Phone 2026 17:18:16 +1 17:19:05 Updated one of my JPs. Was smooth sailing, completely uneventful. There's a significant speedup in boot-to-UI 17:19:28 ...which is really nice! 17:19:40 and AppSupport audio fixes are nice 17:21:46 I have a (recurring) question about recurring subscriptions. 17:22:24 please ask 17:22:27 Brought up in a previous meeting that recurring subscription doesn't seem to work for me. They always end up on-shot 17:22:54 Is there anything on you can suggest for troubleshooting this? 17:23:11 Let's take this offline for example in Forum PM 17:23:25 I have other recurring payments/donations registered, and they work. 17:23:40 OK, works for me :) 17:23:46 Thanks 17:24:26 ah, that community meeting in Stockholm 17:24:52 there's now a date poll: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/roadshow-potential-community-meeting-stockholm-oct-21/34246 17:25:13 Yes! Happy to see you suggesting a couple of dates that would work (and sad that I don't think I will make it) 17:26:10 please join if you happen to be around, and vote for your preference 17:26:28 that event is not yet carved into a stone 17:27:00 I think it's time for final topic 17:27:50 #topic Next meeting time and date (2 mins) 17:28:09 Proposing Thursday 15th October at 04:00 PM UTC 17:28:14 usual schedule 17:29:47 looks ok for me, but things change on short notice here, sooo 17:30:32 I think that's it then 17:30:38 #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 15th October 2026 at 04:00pm UTC: 2026-10-15T1600Z 17:30:47 thank you all! 17:31:07 #endmeeting