| flypig_ | Good morning! | 07:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Crabster | morning | 07:01 |
| Thaodan | Good Morning | 07:01 |
| flypig_ | #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 9th June 2022 | 07:01 |
| sailbot | Meeting started Thu Jun 9 07:01:54 2022 UTC. The chair is flypig_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 07:01 |
| sailbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 07:01 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 9th June 2022)" | 07:01 | |
| flypig_ | #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here: | 07:02 |
| flypig_ | #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-9th-june-2022/11704 | 07:02 |
| flypig_ | I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and Aretha Franklin. | 07:02 |
| flypig_ | #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info | 07:02 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 9th June 2022)" | 07:02 | |
| Nico | #info Nico, community and on a train | 07:02 |
| sledges | hype train?:) | 07:03 |
| sledges | #info Simonas Leleiva - privateer for Jolla | 07:03 |
| flypig_ | :D | 07:03 |
| flypig_ | #info David Llewellyn-Jones - sailor @ jolla | 07:03 |
| Nico | More like train to do a workshop at the destination :3 | 07:03 |
| abranson | #info Andrew Branson - sailing by | 07:03 |
| Nico | I don't mention the Sailfish hype train I am always on, since I never leave that one. | 07:03 |
| abranson | choo choo! | 07:04 |
| rainemak_ | Good morning and sorry for being late | 07:04 |
| *** rainemak_ is now known as rainemak | 07:04 | |
| thilo[m] | #info thigg, community and on a train | 07:05 |
| flypig_ | You're not late yet, only just getting started! | 07:05 |
| Solrac[m] | #info Solrac, community | 07:05 |
| Thaodan | #info Björn Bidar - Sailor @ Jolla | 07:05 |
| rainemak | #info Raine Mäkeläinen - Sailor @ Jolla | 07:06 |
| sebix[m] | #info Sebix - community | 07:06 |
| ExTechOp | #info Otto Mäkelä, community | 07:07 |
| flypig_ | A nice turnout today: 5 community, 4 sailors, plus lurkers. | 07:07 |
| flypig_ | But we also have a *lot* of questions, so we should get started. | 07:07 |
| flypig_ | Feel free to announce yourself later if you like. | 07:08 |
| flypig_ | #topic OBS Improvement for ports (20 minutes -- asked by piggz) | 07:08 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "OBS Improvement for ports (20 minutes -- asked by piggz) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 9th June 2022)" | 07:08 | |
| flypig_ | This is a topic from piggz, moved from the last meeting, but I'm not sure if piggz is here today. | 07:08 |
| flypig_ | #info <piggz> At around Sailfish 4.3, and new hw-common repository was added which packages common hw adaptation packages which can now be shared across devices. | 07:08 |
| flypig_ | #info <piggz> When building on OBS for community ports, these packages are not available, so it is still necessary to build certain packages to allow the droid-hal-version package to build correctly. | 07:08 |
| flypig_ | #info <piggz> Could the packages in the new common repository be added to the OBS targets to reduce the amount of packages needed to be built by ports? | 07:09 |
| flypig_ | #info <piggz> (lbt will be useful here) | 07:09 |
| flypig_ | So, as usual, we have a prepared answer, which hopefully is helpful. | 07:09 |
| flypig_ | #info <Jolla> As you've noted, it makes sense to make these packages available for ports. | 07:09 |
| flypig_ | #info <Jolla> I asked lbt about it and he explained that it was something that he had already been considering. However, he also noted that it would potentially be a non-trivial task, and he's currently focussed on other things. | 07:09 |
| flypig_ | #info <Jolla> It's therefore on his TODO list to look at, but without any timescale for when it might be possible. | 07:09 |
| flypig_ | Are piggz or lbt around to add anything? | 07:10 |
| Nico | crickets | 07:10 |
| flypig_ | Yeah, I guess they're not around. Would anyone else like to add anything on this? | 07:11 |
| flypig_ | Okay, well, we have many many questions today (10 I think) so let's take the opportunity to move on then. | 07:12 |
| Thaodan | From what I saw the repo that contains those packages (hw-common) is already public since it is already used by official devices. | 07:12 |
| Thaodan | It can be already used on the port itself after being built on obs. | 07:13 |
| flypig_ | What does that mean in practice Thaodan? Is there more to do to get what piggz is after? | 07:13 |
| flypig_ | But that doesn't make the building step easier, if I understand correctly? | 07:14 |
| dcaliste | #info Damien Caliste, community | 07:14 |
| flypig_ | #info <Thaodan> the repo that contains those packages (hw-common) is already public since it is already used by official devices. It can be already used on the port itself after being built on obs. | 07:15 |
| Thaodan | flypig_: From what I see the direct rpm repo needs to be added to the obs since releasing already creates the hw-common repo. | 07:15 |
| Thaodan | But this needs to be done by an obs admin. | 07:15 |
| flypig_ | Okay, so I guess that's the task lbt is referring to. | 07:16 |
| Thaodan | Because you need those permissions to add outside rpm repos into the obs. | 07:16 |
| flypig_ | Understood. Thanks Thaodan for clarifying. | 07:16 |
| Thaodan | np | 07:16 |
| flypig_ | #info <Thaodan> the direct rpm repo needs to be added to the obs since releasing already creates the hw-common repo. | 07:16 |
| pherjung | #info pherjung, community | 07:16 |
| Thaodan | As an intermediate step hw-common from the current sfos release could be replicated by community on the obs and then use the real repo on the device it self. | 07:17 |
| Thaodan | Since the non-oss packages from hw-common aren't used during build. | 07:18 |
| flypig_ | I guess from piggz's perspective, this is adding unnecessary complexity if it can just be added directly to the build. | 07:18 |
| Thaodan | E.g. sailfish-fpd-binder-slave. | 07:19 |
| Thaodan | I know but before lbt has time. | 07:19 |
| flypig_ | Yep, understood. | 07:19 |
| flypig_ | Okay, let's continue. I think the situation is clear. Thanks again for the info Thaodan. | 07:20 |
| flypig_ | #topic Bug roundup (5 minutes -- asked by pherjung) | 07:20 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Bug roundup (5 minutes -- asked by pherjung) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 9th June 2022)" | 07:20 | |
| flypig_ | #info <pherjung> A summary of the amazing bug-herding work of the Community Bug Coordination team over the last fortnight. | 07:20 |
| flypig_ | Good that you arrived pherjung :) | 07:20 |
| flypig_ | #info <Jolla> We've been through the untracked reports. Rather than list them all individually, here's a summary of the results: | 07:20 |
| flypig_ | #info <Jolla> 10 new bug reports have been recorded internally, all now tagged as "tracked" on the forum. | 07:20 |
| flypig_ | #info <Jolla> 2 bugs already had an internal report, and are now correctly tagged as "tracked" in the forum. | 07:21 |
| flypig_ | #info <Jolla> 1 report has been marked as "pending", since it's not quite clear what the best way to handle it is yet. | 07:21 |
| flypig_ | #info <Jolla> There were also 11 bugs flagged as duplicates. I've not had a chance to go through these yet I'm afraid, as they'll require a bit of extra work. | 07:21 |
| flypig_ | #info <Jolla> For info, the pending report is the following: | 07:21 |
| flypig_ | #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/xperia-10-iii-availability-of-volte-in-italy/11644 | 07:21 |
| flypig_ | #info <Jolla> Working with high-quality reports makes it much easier to report and act on them internally. | 07:21 |
| flypig_ | #info <Jolla> So thank you once again for your work improving and highlighting the bug reports. | 07:21 |
| flypig_ | Would any of the Community Bug Coordination Team like to add anything (or indeed anyone else)? | 07:22 |
| thilo[m] | :) | 07:22 |
| pherjung | Is the new way ok for you? | 07:22 |
| flypig_ | You mean the new way of structuring the bugs in your report? | 07:23 |
| ExTechOp | This work on integrating the forums and internal bug tracking is good, but of course time-consuming, could the process be somehow streamlined more? I can see work put here would help a lot in the future. | 07:23 |
| pherjung | flypig_: yes | 07:23 |
| thilo[m] | Thr time we are spending right now is already mainly on reading and reproducing bugs, not much overhead | 07:24 |
| flypig_ | pherjung, yeah, it's nice and clear. The only difficulty was that the duplicates actually turned out to take more time to deal with than I was expecting. | 07:24 |
| flypig_ | ExTechOp, did you have suggestions for streamlining? | 07:24 |
| ExTechOp | Since I'm not familiar with either system, no, not really :-D | 07:25 |
| ExTechOp | thilo OK | 07:25 |
| ExTechOp | I was just thinking, whatever makes the work easier. | 07:25 |
| thilo[m] | there is potential for improvement, but I dont know it yet | 07:26 |
| flypig_ | It's always good to improve things, and I think the process has already been refined over time, which is great. | 07:27 |
| flypig_ | Does anyone want anything added to the minutes? If not, we can move to the next question. | 07:28 |
| thilo[m] | we could e.g. automatically crawl new bug reports and make it more straightforward to categorize them. I dont know how exactly pherjung picks them for the meeting, but maybe this could need some tooling as wel | 07:28 |
| thilo[m] | s/wel/well/ | 07:28 |
| pherjung | thilo[m]: I do it with my little hands :) | 07:28 |
| thilo[m] | but we're already pretty good. but if someone wants to write a few scripts, let us know | 07:28 |
| flypig_ | pherjung, how are you finding it? | 07:29 |
| flypig_ | (how are your hands?) | 07:30 |
| abranson | fantastic work btw | 07:30 |
| pherjung | it's pretty fast actually. I don't see how a script will help me | 07:30 |
| flypig_ | Well, the results are good, so from that point of view it seems to be going fine. | 07:31 |
| thilo[m] | Currently the backlog is not that big, if it would be, it would maybe be handy to automate the random picking from it. | 07:31 |
| pherjung | I think we should mive to the next topic and continue the discussion later | 07:32 |
| thilo[m] | Btw thanks for doing this everytime @pherjung :) | 07:32 |
| flypig_ | Okay, let's move on, but I second abranson's remarks. | 07:32 |
| pherjung | s/mive/move | 07:32 |
| flypig_ | #topic Standalone AppSupport license for ports (10 minutes -- asked by fridlmue) | 07:32 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Standalone AppSupport license for ports (10 minutes -- asked by fridlmue) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 9th June 2022)" | 07:32 | |
| flypig_ | #info <fridlmue> This is a follow up on the general discussion of the last meeting. | 07:33 |
| flypig_ | #info <fridlmue> My question, which was suggested do be a separate topic on the following meeting, was: Is standalone Android AppSupport for Ports still a topic under active consideration at Jolla? | 07:33 |
| flypig_ | fridlmue said they may not be able to make it, but we have a prepared reply of course. | 07:33 |
| flypig_ | #info <Jolla> We've looked at the possibility of stand-alone Android AppSupport for third party ports internally on several occasions over the last few years. | 07:34 |
| flypig_ | #info <Jolla> At each point, it was decided that the challenge of providing a product of sufficient quality and with adequate support would be too great compared to our current approach of offering the best possible experience on top of officially supported and developed adaptations. | 07:34 |
| flypig_ | #info <Jolla> It's worth noting that Android AppSupport for community ports is more than just providing the relevant packages. | 07:34 |
| flypig_ | #info <Jolla> We'd also need processes for verifying that everything works, ensuring the right apps are made available in the Store, ensuring that ports are kept up-to-date and also implementing technical changes to the repository backend. | 07:34 |
| flypig_ | #info <Jolla> Having said all that, we are still actively investigating the possibility right now once again. The plans aren't what might be called "advanced", however, so if we were to do this, it wouldn't be in the immediate future. | 07:34 |
| flypig_ | Would anyone like to add anything? | 07:35 |
| flypig_ | We have a few minutes on this, and a few relevant sailors, but not the original questioner unfortunately. | 07:36 |
| flypig_ | A question for community members here: is this something that you'd see as valuable? | 07:37 |
| Solrac[m] | I think I have a question. Would it be possible to do a scripted test? Something along the lines of checking for each requirement, and letting reporting back what may or may have not worked, and possible logs to further the debugging process? | 07:37 |
| flypig_ | A bit like the harbour validator? | 07:38 |
| Thaodan | For Android there's VTS Vendor Test Suite, those could be run on the port to check. | 07:38 |
| Solrac[m] | I also imagine an android app written to test any remaining functionality could be of use as well, albeit, a bit more work | 07:40 |
| thilo[m] | Your goal is, that appsupport is only available on ports where it works sufficiently well? So no: heres the license and packages, do as you wish? | 07:40 |
| flypig_ | I guess it's not just about Android functionality, the Sailfish functionality would need checked too. | 07:41 |
| flypig_ | *need checking | 07:41 |
| lal883[m] | How about Jolla allow the ports to test a preview of app support for a month and allow the individuals to buy a licence purely at their discretion if the individual finds the app support works fine on their ported device? | 07:43 |
| flypig_ | thilo[m], it would have to be the former, I think, since failures, bug reports, etc. are likely to come back to Jolla. | 07:43 |
| Thaodan | Well if its about AAS then VTS is the way to test, for Sailfish there's already the csd app. | 07:43 |
| thilo[m] | It would also be interesting if people would make it work on other linux phones | 07:44 |
| flypig_ | We have just a couple more minutes on this topic. Does anyone want anything added to the minutes? | 07:44 |
| lal883[m] | That way, the individuals using ports cannot blame Jolla if anything hies wrong. | 07:45 |
| lal883[m] | Goes* | 07:45 |
| thilo[m] | Flypig: i would hope it wouldnt be so bad, maybe even beneficial, but thats just a hope ;) | 07:46 |
| abranson | lal883[m]: adding some sort of expiring trial support in sfos would be a bit of a shame | 07:46 |
| flypig_ | Okay, we have so many questions today, we have to move on I'm afraid. | 07:47 |
| lal883[m] | App support is proprietary isn't it? Why be ashamed. :D | 07:47 |
| flypig_ | We can continue discussion on the topic in General chat. | 07:48 |
| flypig_ | #topic discontinuous 4G connectivity on 10iii (10 minutes -- asked by cyberlyra) | 07:48 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "discontinuous 4G connectivity on 10iii (10 minutes -- asked by cyberlyra) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 9th June 2022)" | 07:48 | |
| flypig_ | #info <cyberlyra> 10iii users report requiring reset network subsystem to regain connectivity. | 07:48 |
| ExTechOp | oops | 07:52 |
| Solrac[m] | ooh.. | 07:53 |
| sebix[m] | Maybe flypig is using 10iii? | 07:53 |
| flypig | Oh, sorry, I dropped out of oftc.net. Sorry about that. | 07:53 |
| abranson | phew | 07:53 |
| flypig | Let me pick up where I left off! | 07:53 |
| flypig | #info <cyberlyra> May occur when switching from Wi-Fi to data, or 3G to 4G. | 07:54 |
| flypig | #info <cyberlyra> Initial reports assumed volte beta enabled, later reports with no volte. An update is appreciated. | 07:54 |
| flypig | #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/unable-to-use-mobile-data-on-sony-xperia-10-iii-4-4-0-64/11560/28 | 07:54 |
| flypig | #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/11570 | 07:54 |
| flypig | cyberlyra said they couldn't make the meeting, but it seemed like the answer might be useful to others to have anyway. | 07:54 |
| flypig | #info <Jolla> Thank you for highlighting this. We've been following the discussion on the forum and are aware of some of the potential underlying causes. | 07:54 |
| flypig | #info <Jolla> We're particular grateful to direc85 and senders on the forum for investigating the networking side of it so carefully and deeply. | 07:54 |
| flypig | #info <Jolla> We're working on a solution. You can see some of this ongoing work in the connman PR #29. However, as this is ongoing work we can't provide any timescales for when it will be ready. | 07:55 |
| flypig | #info <Jolla> To see how things progress, our best advice is to follow the PR, to keep an eye on Damien's Repository Roundup in the community newsletter, or to follow the threads in the forum for any updates posted there. | 07:55 |
| flypig | #link https://github.com/sailfishos/connman/pull/29 | 07:55 |
| flypig | I'm really sorry about the disruption there ;( | 07:55 |
| flypig | abranson, is that an appropriate link, or is there somewhere better? | 07:55 |
| abranson | No that one's not working for me right now | 07:56 |
| abranson | I'm on an ipv6 only carrier, so i've been experiencing this problem. | 07:56 |
| abranson | but I found an earlier version of that PR helped. it's all nowhere near ready though | 07:57 |
| flypig | abranson, is the best thing for others to do right now to be patient for the fix? | 07:58 |
| abranson | depends how brave they are. if they know what they're doing, then take it from here: https://github.com/sailfishos/connman/pull/29/commits/df2ece60b7ce7d79bf9c436d592b3e6198f4f60d | 07:58 |
| flypig | Can I add that to the minutes? | 07:58 |
| abranson | this is specifically about the gateway problem with volte though - not other mobile networking issues without volte enabled | 07:59 |
| sledges | ^ above link hash might get broken after forced-push | 07:59 |
| abranson | #info anyone feeling brave enough could try to build this version of connman if they have conflicts with volte connections, but it's very preliminary: https://github.com/sailfishos/connman/pull/29/commits/df2ece60b7ce7d79bf9c436d592b3e6198f4f60d | 08:00 |
| flypig | Perfect, thanks abranson. | 08:00 |
| flypig | We have a few more minutes on this, but cyberlyra isn't here and I think you've covered things nicely abranson. | 08:02 |
| flypig | Let's move on. | 08:02 |
| flypig | #topic Collaboration between Jolla and mobile phone manufacturer (5 minutes -- asked by pherjung) | 08:02 |
| flypig | #info <pherjung> Swiss enterprise Recommerce AG has now his own phone called Rephone. | 08:02 |
| flypig | #info <pherjung> What are the conditions Recommerce AG should achieve so SailfishOS is supported with Android App Support? | 08:02 |
| flypig | #info <Jolla> Thanks for highlighting the new Rephone. It goes without saying, but we're always interested to know about new mobile devices, and the Rephone's focus on sustainability looks like an interesting proposition. | 08:03 |
| flypig | #info <Jolla> Following on from the earlier question about Android AppSupport for ports, at present Jolla doesn't offer Android AppSupport for third party adaptations without a commercial licence. | 08:03 |
| flypig | #info <Jolla> Recommerce AG are of course welcome to contact Jolla about the possibility. Without a broader Android AppSupport programme for Sailfish OS ports, the conditions would most likely be contractual and commercial. | 08:03 |
| flypig | pherjung, you said you'd be absent, but I'm glad you were able to make it. Would you like to add anything? | 08:03 |
| pherjung | nothing special to add :) | 08:04 |
| flypig | There was some discussion on the forum about this particular device being similar to the Volla, is that correct? | 08:05 |
| Thaodan | Does that sound good or bad? | 08:06 |
| Thaodan | If I remember correctly Vola phones were mediatek based. | 08:07 |
| flypig | Yes, MTK Helio G85. | 08:09 |
| pherjung | It looks like Recommerce and Volla are using the same model | 08:09 |
| abranson | yes that notch looks the same | 08:09 |
| flypig | On the forum olf suggests it's the same as the Volla Phone 22 | 08:09 |
| flypig | https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/volla-phone-22-the-beauty-of-freedom#/ | 08:09 |
| flypig | https://www.gigaset.com/hq_en/gigaset-gs5/ | 08:10 |
| Thaodan | Ok lets hope they can release the sources for the adaptation. | 08:11 |
| flypig | Anything to add to the minutes? We have one more minute on the topic. | 08:13 |
| abranson | out of interest, are you involved with this phone, pherjung? | 08:13 |
| pherjung | nope | 08:13 |
| abranson | it does look like a cool sort of thing. we need more of these little phone companies. | 08:14 |
| flypig | Agreed, and their focus on sustainability is nice I think, as long as it's backed up by results. | 08:14 |
| abranson | it's a shame these days when you walk into a phone shop and see that every model is made by one of three manufacturers | 08:14 |
| flypig | And yet, behind the scenes there are so many more interesting options. | 08:15 |
| abranson | and yes, the sustainability thing is sadly too rare, especially among the big guys | 08:15 |
| flypig | Alright, time marches on, let's move to the next question. | 08:15 |
| flypig | #topic What's the next official device that will be supported by Sailfish OS. Are there any plans to release the Sailfish OS to a (current) high end device? (5 minutes -- asked by HtheB) | 08:16 |
| flypig | #info <HtheB> I am considering to get a Sony device, however, if there are plans to release Sailfish OS to a new phone soon, should someone better wait for the next device? | 08:16 |
| flypig | A short and sweet question. Here's our prepared answer. | 08:16 |
| flypig | #info <Jolla> As you'll know from previous Sailfish OS releases, Jolla doesn't generally announce support for new devices until plans are already well advanced. | 08:16 |
| flypig | #info <Jolla> Our focus has been on development for the Xperia 10 III and we're really happy with the Sailfish OS experience on the device. The Xperia 10 III undoubtedly provides the current flagship Sailfish OS experience. | 08:16 |
| flypig | #info <Jolla> So, at present we don't have any information to provide about potential support for future devices. | 08:17 |
| flypig | #info <Jolla> Looking back at previous releases may give some idea about the sort of timescales involved in developing new quality adaptations, but of course there's no guarantee that this will match any timescales in the future. | 08:17 |
| flypig | Do we have HtheB here today? Anyone else, feel free to add anything. | 08:17 |
| ExTechOp | (also, Sony doesn't make their flagship devices immediately available to the "other operating systems" plan) | 08:18 |
| flypig | Indeed, there is a process, and it takes time. | 08:20 |
| Thaodan | they take a few months until the official release | 08:20 |
| abranson | Personally, I'd say that if anyone who likes to keep their phones for a long time is thinking about getting a sfos xperia, the 10iii is a good one to go for. flypig did a big performance report on it in a recent blob post, and it's really quite dramatically better than the 10ii or the previous ones. | 08:21 |
| abranson | so no, don't wait for the next device. not unless you have a very personal definition of 'soon' that would blow even our minds. | 08:22 |
| ExTechOp | As soon as the aforementioned issues are ironed out. SFOS has never been very good at switching networks on the fly, the network subsystem still occasionally needs a restart when eg. going from wifi to phone network. | 08:22 |
| flypig | Yes, I'd definitely second that advice, abranson. | 08:22 |
| abranson | yes, and ExTechOp's addendum too. the extra cautious would do well to wait until the networking is sorted out a bit. that is a bit annoying. | 08:23 |
| flypig | ExTechOp, when you say "aforementioned", you're referring to the early question on connectivity? | 08:23 |
| ExTechOp | Yes | 08:23 |
| flypig | *earlier | 08:23 |
| flypig | Worth noting though that the connectivity issues with the fix were related to VoLTE, so without VoLTE, it should be the same on the 10II and 10III I think. | 08:24 |
| flypig | (please correct me if I'm mistaken on that) | 08:25 |
| abranson | yeah, though the question did mention some non-volte related issues too | 08:25 |
| abranson | but a smaller number? | 08:26 |
| flypig | And, I was wondering if those could be 10III specific. | 08:26 |
| flypig | Okay, we are over time on this question, still have three questions, so we had better move on! | 08:27 |
| flypig | #topic 4g on both SIMs (5 minutes -- asked by remote) | 08:27 |
| flypig | #info <remote> SFOS doesn't support 4g on both SIM slots, android (and HW) does. Hence the restriction of volte on data sim (=4g) only. | 08:27 |
| flypig | #info <Jolla> We're not fully clear what the question is here (maybe it's just a topic for discussion?). | 08:27 |
| flypig | #info <Jolla> At any rate, it's correct that Sailfish OS only supports data on a single SIM at a time, and that VoLTE is only supported on the SIM with an active data connection. | 08:27 |
| flypig | #info <Jolla> VoLTE is a beta feature at the moment, so this is something that may change in the future. | 08:28 |
| flypig | Do we have remote with us today? | 08:28 |
| flypig | I probably misunderstood what was being asked. | 08:28 |
| ExTechOp | On a related subject, do we have a coarse schedule on how long the VoLTE beta period will last, and when it'll be declared to be an official release? | 08:31 |
| flypig | ExTechOp, the short answer is "no". We've been super-impressed with how many people have actually tried it and recorded their results, so that helps, but no timetable. | 08:32 |
| flypig | We hit time on this topic, and remote isn't here it seems (they did say they'd likely be absent) so let'smove on. | 08:33 |
| piggz | flypig: Thaodan: thanks for the discussion (had a hectic morning with car failures) | 08:33 |
| flypig | thilo[m], we have two questions from you to finish up. | 08:33 |
| thilo[m] | yes | 08:34 |
| flypig | piggz, thanks for the question. Do ask more in General Chat if you have queries. | 08:34 |
| flypig | #topic What are the plans regarding the memory problems on devices like the XA2? (10 minutes -- asked by thilo) | 08:34 |
| flypig | #info <thilo> Since sandboxing one is confronted with the oom killer much more often. | 08:34 |
| flypig | #info <thilo> Are there plans to make the oom killer prioritize better (thus prioritize apps that are not used currently)? | 08:34 |
| flypig | #info <thilo> What is the current strategy of the oom killer? Are there plans to reduce the memory footprint with sandboxing? | 08:34 |
| flypig | Here's our prepared answer. | 08:35 |
| flypig | #info <Jolla> Thanks for raising this. We are aware that, partly due to increased memory usage of -- for example -- the browser, video decoding and Android AppSupport, OOM killing has become more common on recent releases of Sailfish OS, especially on devices with less memory. | 08:35 |
| flypig | #info <Jolla> There have also been changes to the kernel which have complicated this. So, we are aware of the issue and have been actively investigating potential solutions. However there are no public PRs related to the work just yet. | 08:35 |
| flypig | #info <Jolla> It's also worth noting that because of the different adaptations and kernel versions, different devices may need different approaches. We already received some useful input from Karry in relation to this, and this is a good opportunity for us to thank Karry for the input. | 08:35 |
| flypig | #link https://www.karry.cz/en/karry/blog/2021/11/07/sailfishos_memory/ | 08:35 |
| thilo[m] | i loved that post, was very interesting! | 08:36 |
| flypig | Yes, agreed, it's impressively detailed. | 08:36 |
| thilo[m] | do you need more data? can we collect some looks to help development? | 08:37 |
| thilo[m] | I sometimes can not open 3 apps at the same time and always the foreground app gets killed, I guess you are aware of that, is there a way to assist? | 08:37 |
| flypig | thilo[m], thanks for offering and it's a good question. I ran this past the devs involved, but from what they said, they have the info they need to work with. | 08:39 |
| flypig | Of course, any new info is always appreciated. | 08:39 |
| thilo[m] | okay, thank you | 08:39 |
| flypig | Thanks for asking! | 08:40 |
| thilo[m] | :) | 08:40 |
| flypig | We still have some more time on this, but if you like we can go to your next question thilo[m]? | 08:41 |
| sledges | even sailbot couldn't handle the pressure:) last topic change was hour ago:) | 08:42 |
| thilo[m] | yes, sure | 08:43 |
| flypig | Oh, is it not picking the topics up ;( | 08:43 |
| flypig | I hope it's collecting minutes. | 08:43 |
| sledges | fingers cross(compil)ed | 08:43 |
| flypig | Haha :D | 08:44 |
| flypig | Okay, next question. Thanks thilo[m]. | 08:44 |
| flypig | #topic Background services (10m -- asked by thilo) | 08:44 |
| flypig | #info <thilo> What are the future plans for background services? | 08:44 |
| flypig | #info <thilo> I remember that it was a quite high rated feature in a poll. | 08:44 |
| flypig | #info <thilo> But to my knowledge it is still not possible for e.g. Chatapps to poll data without being open. | 08:44 |
| flypig | And here we have our answer. | 08:45 |
| flypig | #info <Jolla> This is something we've looked in to, and have onging tasks related to. In short, it's something we understand the value of, and would like to offer. | 08:45 |
| flypig | #info <Jolla> However at the same time it's important that allowing apps to support background services can't lead to a situation where apps abuse the capability, potentially leading to a degreation in performance of the entire phone, or excessive battery consumption. | 08:45 |
| flypig | #undo | 08:45 |
| flypig | #info <Jolla> However at the same time it's important that allowing apps to support background services can't lead to a situation where apps abuse the capability, potentially leading to a degredation in performance of the entire phone, or excessive battery consumption. | 08:45 |
| flypig | #info <Jolla> In order to avoid this, we have outstanding technical tasks that need to be completed, specifically related to tuning cgroups to prevent excessive resource usage, before we can reasonably consider changing the harbour rules on this. | 08:45 |
| flypig | Sorry, noticed a typo. | 08:46 |
| flypig | So, in short, there's still some work to be done thilo[m]. | 08:46 |
| thilo[m] | I'd love to read a blogpost on things like this. Stuff like that is quite interesting :) | 08:46 |
| thilo[m] | thanks for the answer | 08:46 |
| flypig | thilo[m], agreed, I'd love to read that too :) There's lots of fascinating stuff to learn. | 08:47 |
| Thaodan | https://systemd.io/DESKTOP_ENVIRONMENTS is a good read on this topic if you're interesting in background information. | 08:47 |
| thilo[m] | oh, thanks, will do! | 08:48 |
| flypig | #info Thaodan suggested to look a the following for useful background info. | 08:48 |
| flypig | #link https://systemd.io/DESKTOP_ENVIRONMENTS | 08:48 |
| Thaodan | It doesn't tell much about the tuning of the specific slices however this can used as a base and tuned more for mobile phone usage. | 08:48 |
| Thaodan | The only downside is that modern cgroup tuning requires modern kernels. | 08:49 |
| thilo[m] | and since older phones dont receive kernel updates... | 08:49 |
| pherjung | and here comes postmarketos :) | 08:49 |
| thilo[m] | that is a tricky situation | 08:49 |
| flypig | Do you fancy writing a post about it Thaodan? | 08:50 |
| Thaodan | flypig: It being kernel updates or cgroups? | 08:50 |
| flypig | I was thinking cgroups. | 08:50 |
| Thaodan | Sure I can do that. | 08:51 |
| thilo[m] | nice :) | 08:51 |
| thilo[m] | looking forward to it | 08:51 |
| flypig | Excellent :) Let's discuss and make it happen. | 08:51 |
| flypig | We have just a couple more minutes before we move to General Chat. Does anyone have anything to add to the minutes on this (which may or may not actually get recorded)? | 08:54 |
| thilo[m] | speaking of blogposts, arre there still plans to publish a writeup on what delayed 4.4? | 08:54 |
| sledges | pinging Keto about hosed sailbot:) | 08:54 |
| flypig | Thanks sledges. | 08:55 |
| flypig | thilo[m], did we say we'd do that at some point? | 08:55 |
| Keto | ? | 08:56 |
| thilo[m] | i asked for it, when it got delayed, because I like to hear stories like this and you were interested | 08:56 |
| flypig | I probably should have looked into it, sorry for not having done that thilo[m]. I can look into whether it might be possible. | 08:57 |
| flypig | Keto, topic changes aren't being picked up, we were worried about the bot. | 08:57 |
| Keto | oh... the bot has lost track of the meeting.... | 08:57 |
| thilo[m] | No worries, if it is interesting and worth your time, it would be fun | 08:57 |
| flypig | Okay, we hit time on this topic, we should move on. Keto, should we wait or can we continue? | 08:58 |
| Thaodan | Bot dementia | 08:58 |
| flypig | :( | 08:58 |
| Keto | you can continue, there probably isn't anthing that can be done at this point | 08:58 |
| flypig | Okay, that's a shame; thanks for investigating. | 08:59 |
| flypig | #topic General discussion (10 min) | 08:59 |
| ExTechOp | I just recently noticed that SFOS for Xperia 10III is available, and of course bought it, but then realized the install instructions / what you need to begin says "Please make sure that your phone has Android version 11" -- the current release is Android 12. Is this major release a show stopper, or do the instructions just need a bit of updating? https://jolla.com/how-to-install-sailfish-x-on-xperia-10-iii-on-linux/ | 08:59 |
| sledges | Keto: grep "^#" > minutes? :) | 08:59 |
| Keto | hmm | 09:01 |
| flypig | rainemak, is the advice still to only install Sailfish from Android 11 on the 10 III? | 09:01 |
| Thaodan | ExTechOp: We didn't test phones running stock Android 12 before flashing. | 09:01 |
| Thaodan | There can be issue but things like modem firmware should not change in a major way between releases. | 09:02 |
| flypig | (it's lunchtime now in Finland, so we may have lost some sailors to food I'm afraid). | 09:02 |
| ExTechOp | Unfortunately there is no downgrade path. | 09:02 |
| Thaodan | You can downgrade via Emma. | 09:03 |
| ExTechOp | Espoo Museum of Modern Art? | 09:03 |
| flypig | ExTechOp, there's been quite a lot of discussion about it on the forum. Did you follow that? | 09:03 |
| ExTechOp | flypig Have missed that, will look it up | 09:03 |
| Keto | flypig: try changing your nick back to flypig_, and then issue #topic change | 09:04 |
| Thaodan | flypig try /nick flypig_ | 09:07 |
| flypig | I think I have to change it at my bouncer... | 09:08 |
| fridlmue | #info fridlmue - community (sorry for beeing late, other meeting...) | 09:08 |
| ExTechOp | This is the forum discussion thread on Xperia 10 III, Android 11, and Emma: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sony-xperia-iii-android-12/11029/8 | 09:08 |
| Keto | flypig: ok, newer mind, I'll try something else.... | 09:08 |
| flypig | Sorry, I think probably it's not worth worying about as we only have one topic left. | 09:08 |
| flypig | Sorry | 09:08 |
| Thaodan | flypig: Nope just run the command | 09:08 |
| *** Thaodan is now known as foobar | 09:09 | |
| foobar | seee | 09:09 |
| flypig | Does nothing for me. | 09:09 |
| flypig | #info <ExTechOp> This is the forum discussion thread on Xperia 10 III, Android 11, and Emma. | 09:09 |
| *** foobar is now known as Guest1642 | 09:09 | |
| flypig | #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sony-xperia-iii-android-12/11029/8 | 09:09 |
| flypig | Glad you found it ExTechOp, that was the one I was thinking of, yes. | 09:10 |
| Keto | flypig: well it needs to identify the chair in order to end the meeting :) but I think I can fix that | 09:10 |
| flypig | Let's wrap up anyway, sorry for the mess everyone. | 09:11 |
| flypig | #topic Next meeting time and date (5 min) | 09:11 |
| flypig | Proposing Thursday 23rd June at 07:00am UTC | 09:12 |
| flypig | Silence means acceptance in this situation :) | 09:13 |
| flypig | It's midsummer's-eve-eve | 09:13 |
| flypig | Alright, we can take that as set then. | 09:13 |
| flypig | #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 23rd June 2022 at 07:00am UTC: 2022-06-23T0700Z | 09:13 |
| flypig | Thanks everyone for the phenomenal quality and quantity of questions this meeting. | 09:14 |
| flypig | Sorry once again for the mess. Keto, can you perform some magic to end the meeting please? | 09:14 |
| flypig | #endmeeting | 09:14 |
| fridlmue | Sorry for beeing (very) late. I just read threw the answer (and the discussion). Thankso to anyone! | 09:15 |
| ExTechOp | Also, in the forums thread we have at least three people saying they installed SFOS over Android 12 without issues | 09:15 |
| Keto | just a moment | 09:15 |
| flypig | Thanks fridlmue, I'm glad you were able to make it, even if just at the end! | 09:15 |
| flypig | ExTechOp, you take a risk of hitting difficult-to-explain issues further down the line, which I think is the biggest issue. | 09:16 |
| Keto | flypig: try now :) | 09:16 |
| flypig | #endmeeting | 09:16 |
| sailbot | Meeting ended Thu Jun 9 09:16:36 2022 UTC. | 09:16 |
| sailbot | Minutes: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2022/sailfishos-meeting.2022-06-09-07.01.html | 09:16 |
| sailbot | Minutes (text): https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2022/sailfishos-meeting.2022-06-09-07.01.txt | 09:16 |
| sailbot | Log: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2022/sailfishos-meeting.2022-06-09-07.01.log.html | 09:16 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 9th June 2022 at 07:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-9th-june-2022/11704" | 09:16 | |
| flypig | Woohoo! | 09:16 |
| ExTechOp | \o/ | 09:16 |
| flypig | I feared we'd be stuck in the meeting forever. | 09:17 |
| flypig | Thanks Keto. I guess the issue was caused by my bouncer failing half way through and logging me back in with a different nick. | 09:17 |
| ExTechOp | flypig The Android 11 downgrade path is somewhat arduous also, is there a chance you'll update your packages to be compatible with Android 12 at some point since that currently is the default? | 09:17 |
| Keto | the minutes are missin later topics, but all the infos are there | 09:17 |
| flypig | ExTechOp, my understanding is that it's being looked into, yes. But as with all these things, there are no promises until we can be certain. | 09:18 |
| Keto | flypig: yeah, it identifies the chair person just based on nick | 09:18 |
| ExTechOp | flypig And for me, finding a windows machine to run Emma is a pretty large task in itself | 09:18 |
| flypig | Keto, that's good. Is there any way for me to edit them manually to add them back in? | 09:18 |
| Keto | flypig: I'll try to edit in the topics | 09:19 |
| flypig | ExTechOp, I'll ask around internally, see if I can get you any more info on it. But in practice, unless we've at least completed thorough testing our end, we probably wouldn't recommend it. | 09:20 |
| flypig | Keto, thank you. Do you have the details you need, or would it help to have the agenda summaries? | 09:20 |
| flypig | *summarised | 09:21 |
| ExTechOp | flypig I understand if you now buy an Xperia 10III from a store, it may already have Android 12 on it, so this rather inconvenient | 09:21 |
| Keto | yes, the full log is there so I can pick them from there | 09:21 |
| flypig | Keto, thank you so much. Sorry for the big inconvenience. | 09:21 |
| flypig | ExTechOp, yes, understood; I don't think anyone will want to downgrade if they can avoid it. | 09:23 |
| *** ChanServ changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 23rd June 2022 at 07:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-23rd-june-2022/11888" | 09:26 | |
| Keto | flypig: ok, minutes are fixed now, could you verify that they look right | 09:44 |
| flypig | Many thanks Keto, both the text and html versions look good to me. | 13:11 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!