Thursday, 2022-09-01

*** rainemak_ is now known as rainemak06:56
Crabstermorning06:57
ExTechOpGood morning, everyone!06:57
rainemakGood morning!06:58
ThaodanGood Morning06:58
ViGemorning06:58
flypigGood morning!06:59
NicoMoin :306:59
flypig#startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 1st September 202207:00
sailbotMeeting started Thu Sep  1 07:00:08 2022 UTC. The chair is flypig. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.07:00
sailbotUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.07:00
*** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 1st September 2022)"07:00
flypig#info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:07:00
flypig#link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-1st-september-2022/1269807:00
flypigNice to see people already here!07:00
flypigI am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings, don't worry amd be happy.07:00
flypig#topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info07:00
*** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 1st September 2022)"07:00
ExTechOp#info Otto Mäkelä, community07:00
ViGe#info Ville Nummela, sailor @ jolla07:00
flypig#info David Llewellyn-Jones, another sailor @ jolla07:01
Thaodan#info Björ Bidar, yet another sailor @ jolla07:02
rainemak#info Raine Mäkeläinen sailor @ Jolla07:02
sebix[m]@info Sebix, community07:02
Nico#info Nico, noisy community07:02
sebix[m]#info sebix, community07:03
flypigTeam Jolla had an early lead, but the community are pulling it back :)07:03
abr#info Andrew Branson, sailor07:03
sebix[m]mixing keys...07:03
flypig:D07:03
flypigDo you want to be officially recorded Crabster?07:03
NicoI have really come to appreciate the time Jolla sailors take for these meetings after being involved with some other projects, so I actually don't mind sailors winning in count anymore :307:04
sebix[m]flypig: Who would not qualify to be one?07:04
sebix[m]* Who would *not, * not* qualify07:04
flypigQualify to be what sebix[m]?07:05
JacekJagosz[m]#info Jacek Jagosz, community07:05
flypigI think that's 5:5 now. Tense :)07:06
NicoScore is now 5:5, only a few minutes left to play! WHO WILL TAKE THIS THING HOME TODAY!07:06
* Nico feels like we are moderating a sports game07:07
flypigNico, that's nice of you to say, but it's always really nice to see lots of people from the community here too.07:07
NicoObviously, yes :D07:07
flypigAlright, let's wrap it up as a score-draw then!07:07
flypigBefore we get on to the questions proper, we have an update about the Store APIs.07:07
flypig#topic Update: What are the upcoming planned changes for harbour validation? (10 mins -- asked by jolla)07:07
*** sailbot changes topic to "Update: What are the upcoming planned changes for harbour validation? (10 mins -- asked by jolla) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 1st September 2022)"07:07
flypig#info <jolla> There have been some interesting looking PRs merged into the harbour validator recently.07:08
flypig#info <jolla> Does this mean we can now use more things in the Jolla Store? Will this affect Sailjail permissions too?07:08
flypigI'm hoping ViGe has an answer for us?07:08
ViGeThanks flypig!07:08
ViGeIndeed, like some of you have noticed, we will indeed allow quite a few new APIs in Harbour once the 4.5.0 release comes out.07:08
ViGeThe plan is simply to allow as many new APIs as possible, given the limits we have on time and resources.07:08
ViGeI suppose that was the good news. The bad news is that because we lack the resources, we had to lower the bar a little bit in order to get the APIs in.07:08
ViGeSo, while the new APIs will have their documentation in https://sailfishos.org/develop/docs/, you will find out that for most of the new APIS the documentation is quite empty, at least in the beginning.07:08
ViGeAnd also, some of the APIs are still not 100% stable, so we can't really promise that we won't make API breaking changes to them in the future.07:09
ViGeSo far, we have in the pipeline Sailfish Secrets and Crypto, QtLocation, Sailfish Media, Sailfish Contacts, Sailfish Accounts and Sailfish Telephony. And hopefully we can add some more :)07:09
ViGeAnd yes, this will affect Sailjail permissions as well - the permissions needed to use the new APIs will be allowed.07:09
NicoOh, Secrets in harbour, finally!07:09
flypigThat's a lot of new APIs. Very nice.07:10
ViGeI hope that answers your questions, but if you have more questions, feel free to ask :)07:10
flypigSo, these aren't available right *now*. They'll be available in the SDK when?07:11
NicoWhat do Sailfish Accounts and Sailfish Telephony do?07:11
NicoLike can I make my own accounts that are shown in the settings or just access accounts?07:11
ViGeflypig: Well, the APIs are there in the SDK. It's just that they aren't allowed in Harbour yet. We will allow them when we release Sailfish OS 4.5.0.07:12
flypigThanks!07:13
ViGeNico: I'm really not the expert in the APIs themselves, so I can't give really detailed answers to what they actually do. My understanding is that the accounts API allows you to access the accounts.07:14
NicoMhm, I would love to be able to add my own native accounts there, but maybe in the future. Thanks!07:15
ThaodanWasn't the accounts api related to the social media api used by the twitter plugin?07:16
ThaodanSomeone could implement native mastodon the the events-view.07:16
flypigThat would be great! And, I think, not that difficult either :)07:16
abralso mail and IM07:16
NicoOh, that sounds great!07:16
ThaodanYeah07:17
NicoLooking forward to many new apps using it :D07:17
ThaodanShipping more accounts for more email provirers07:17
Thaodan*providers07:17
flypigOkay, we hit time on this topic. I'll just log what ViGe said for the minutes.07:17
flypig#info <ViGe> The plan is simply to allow as many new APIs as possible [from 4.5.0], given the limits we have on time and resources.07:17
rainemak#info As ViGe commented, which APIs end up Harbour allow is one thing and other thing is that more APIs will appear in the  https://sailfishos.org/develop/docs/ . For some APIs there may not be connection between documentation available and Harbour allowed.07:17
rainemak^ erase that "As ViGe commented"07:18
flypigSorry, mixing threads :)07:18
flypig#undo07:18
sailbotRemoving item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x7f23b9c0e2e8>07:18
ViGeYeah, I don't think I said that :)07:18
flypig#info <ViGe> Because we lack the resources, we had to lower the bar a little bit in order to get the APIs in.07:19
flypig#info <ViGe> While the new APIs will have their documentation in https://sailfishos.org/develop/docs/, you will find out that for most of the new APIS the documentation is quite empty, at least in the beginning.07:19
flypig#info <ViGe> Some of the APIs are still not 100% stable, so we can't really promise that we won't make API breaking changes to them in the future.07:19
flypig#info <ViGe> So far, we have in the pipeline Sailfish Secrets and Crypto, QtLocation, Sailfish Media, Sailfish Contacts, Sailfish Accounts and Sailfish Telephony. And hopefully we can add some more.07:19
rainemakInitially meant to write differently...07:19
flypig#info <ViGe> This will affect Sailjail permissions as well - the permissions needed to use the new APIs will be allowed.07:19
flypigOkay, I think that covers the repeat of ViGe's comments.07:19
flypigrainemak, do please add more info.07:19
rainemak#info Which APIs end up Harbour allow is one thing and other thing is that more APIs will appear in the https://sailfishos.org/develop/docs/ . For some APIs there may not be connection between documentation available and Harbour allowed.07:20
flypigThat's clear, thanks rainemak.07:20
rainemakJust to make it clear07:20
flypigOkay, if there are no objections, I'll move us on to the next topic.07:20
rainemakflypig, thank you07:21
flypig#topic Do new SFOS versions use the newest device configurations from Sony? (5 min -- asked by JacekJagosz)07:21
*** sailbot changes topic to "Do new SFOS versions use the newest device configurations from Sony? (5 min -- asked by JacekJagosz) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 1st September 2022)"07:21
flypig#info <JacekJagosz> While investigating this issue:07:21
flypig#link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/xperia-10-iii-uses-performance-governor-for-gold-cores-where-it-probably-shouldnt/1269507:21
flypig#info <JacekJagosz> I traced it back to Sony's Lena config, where CPU cores were improperly configured.07:21
flypig#info <JacekJagosz> I discussed it there, and my pull request to fix it was merged immediately:07:21
flypig#link https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/device-sony-lena/pull/2107:22
flypig#info <JacekJagosz> So my question then is, will next SFOS version use this fixed config?07:22
flypig#info <JacekJagosz> Does new version always use newest config (that was available during development), or is it updated only when there was something really important in there?07:22
flypigI'm not sure whether JacekJagosz could make it today. We have a prepared answer, and then I hope Thaodan will expand a little.07:22
flypig#info <Jolla> Thank you for your excellent work in fixing the issue JacekJagosz.07:22
flypig#info <Jolla> As can be seen on the pull request, Thaodan reviewed your changes and concluded that they needed to be pushed into the r-mr1 branch of Sony’s repositories in order fot them to be integrated with Xperia 10 III devices running Sailfish OS.07:23
flypig#info <Jolla> (the branch name represent the Android Version name)07:23
flypig#info <Jolla> Sony went ahead and did this on 24th August, so we’re now in a position to integrate this with Sailfish OS, which we hope to do for the next release (but we can’t guarantee it at this stage).07:23
flypigThat's the prepared answer. Please feel free to expand.07:23
JacekJagosz[m]What is the policy? Is r-mr1 branch always updated in the release process?07:24
Thaodanthe answer is out of date right now, the changes are in the Android 11/r branch right now and we will update the Xperia 10 III droids-ystem for the next release.07:25
flypigA, good that you could be here JacekJagosz[m].07:25
ThaodanIt is not always updated but updated when we rebuild the package07:25
JacekJagosz[m]Or is it only done if SFOS devs deem it useful?07:25
Thaodansome of the changes in that branch are invalid07:25
flypigJacekJagosz[m], could you explain for us briefly what your changes do?07:26
flypigIf you prefix the important parts with "#info" they'll be added to the minutes.07:26
JacekJagosz[m]Also, what is the difference between different Sony branches?07:26
JacekJagosz[m]I know it should be Android version name07:26
Thaodanplease wait a sec07:26
JacekJagosz[m]But I couldn't find any info on that07:26
JacekJagosz[m]#info My changes fixed Sony's CPU configuration07:27
ThaodanWhen we enabled lmk on the Xperia 10 III we copied the Xperia 10- II values and adjusted them values for the Xperia 10 III.07:27
ThaodanWhen JacekJagosz[m] imported the seine/Xperia 10 II lmk values to lena he copied the values from that device but did not adjust them.07:28
JacekJagosz[m]They mistakingly applied the configuration to core 6 and 7, instead of 8 and 907:28
JacekJagosz[m]Which meant Gold cores in 10 III were left without configuration and using Performance governor07:28
ThaodanNow they are wrong in upstream but we have our own patch and will rebuild with those fixes.07:28
flypigJacekJagosz[m], so the changes could result in a performance boost?07:29
Thaodanbut yeah just write through me07:29
ExTechOpWas feedback given to Sony about this error?07:29
ThaodanAnyway those are the proper lmk values for the Xperia 10 III: https://github.com/mer-hybris/droid-src-sony/commit/dfb3dff5ff7a268ee03ad7a461508203e9d0c0cd07:29
dr_gogeta86#info dr_gogeta86 - community07:29
JacekJagosz[m]LMK settings are another thing entirely07:30
JacekJagosz[m]I wanted to see them merged because of CPU configuration07:30
ThaodanSure but your PR broke them we are talking about your PR are we?07:31
JacekJagosz[m]@flypig they should result in lower power consumption07:32
flypigJacekJagosz[m], got it, thank you for clarifying. I'll add that to the minutes too.07:32
flypig#info <JacekJagosz[m]> [The changes] should result in lower power consumption07:33
ExTechOp(Question from the peanut gallery: Did I understand correctly that parts of the "Sony binary blobs" that were initially installed on the phone get updated along with SFOS updates?)07:33
JacekJagosz[m]Thaodan: If my other PR with LMK settings broke something, could you please comment on the bugtracker? I am sorry aboit that07:34
ThaodanExTechOp: No they have to be updated manually in case there are updates07:34
Thaodanbut there were none so far07:34
ExTechOpOK07:35
JacekJagosz[m]But I checked both them and CPU config fix and they all worked on my device07:35
abrIt would be quite difficult to juggle reflashing that with an update that requires it. we haven't got a mechanism for doing that yet, but it's been discussed.07:35
flypigWe're hitting time on this topic. Would you like more time to discuss? Anything else to add to the minutes.07:37
flypigOkay, let's move on to Open PRs then. Thanks for the useful discussion and clarifications JacekJagosz[m], Thaodan.07:39
NicoJacek Jagosz, I don't think reactions are bridged to IRC :307:39
flypig#topic Open PR discussion (10 min -- asked by jolla)07:39
*** sailbot changes topic to "Open PR discussion (10 min -- asked by jolla) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 1st September 2022)"07:39
flypig#info <jolla> Any open PRs to discuss?07:39
NicoArgh, I should get to fixing my PR... I'll bring it next time ;p07:39
flypigWe didn't have any PRs posted on the forum topic, but feel free to raise any now.07:39
flypigPlease do Nico!07:40
flypigAnd thanks for pointing out about the reactions. I hope they were smiley faces and not frowny faces.07:40
NicoThey were thumb ups07:40
flypig:thumbsup:07:40
NicoSeems like there are no PRs to discuss :307:42
flypigLet's take that as a good sign :)07:42
flypigOkay, let's move on to the bug summary then.07:43
flypig#info No open PRs to discuss today.07:43
flypig#topic Update: Untracked bug reports (5 min -- asked by pherjung)07:43
*** sailbot changes topic to "Update: Untracked bug reports (5 min -- asked by pherjung) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 1st September 2022)"07:43
flypig#info <jolla> The Community Bug Coordination Team have done a superb job once again this fortnight.07:43
flypig#info <Jolla> - 9 new bugs added to our internal database and tagged as "tracked"07:43
flypig#info <Jolla> - 4 bugs marked as "fixed"07:43
flypig#info <Jolla> - 1 bug moved to the "General" category.07:43
flypigAs always, an amazing effort from the team testing bugs and herding bug reports. Thank you.07:43
NicoThere's also a cool new tool, afaik07:44
flypigNico, can you share a link?07:44
Nicohttps://forum.sailfishos.org/t/introducing-new-tool-bugger-the-inofficial-sfos-bug-reporting-tool/1278707:44
abrnothing like a bit of mild swearing for an app name :D07:45
NicoWell, how do you react to bugs? :D07:46
flypigVery apt :)07:46
Thaodannice idea, would be much for this in the os itself, we had ideas for something like this but no time.07:46
NicoWell, maybe this is something for you to integrate in the future, after it had some testing07:47
ExTechOpYou really should have called it "buggery" :-D07:47
flypigI hope it gets a lot of use. It addresses the issue of good bug formatting nicely. I agree Thaodan it'd be neat to integrate it.07:47
NicoWell, I wasn't really involved with the tool, I just saw them talking about it. Was too busy training through Germany :307:47
NicoBut yeah, what the team does is pretty amazing07:47
NicoNot only triaging bugs, but also writing tools to make it easier07:48
flypigA superb effort indeed.07:48
ThaodanNico: well these times did end now ;p, lindner to thank, the porschhe minister07:48
NicoI think they are currently even thinking about a kanban board or so to track the bug reporting status on or so07:48
flypigOne more minute on this, then we move to General discussion.07:49
NicoThaodan: I know, I am stuck in Berlin because I missed my train home and need to buy a ticket now! But it seems like Wissing actually convinced Lindner in some fisticuffs fight, so maybe there will be a follow up and I can get home! ;p07:49
flypigOkay, let's move to General, since I think we already started :)07:50
flypig#topic General discussion (20 min)07:50
*** sailbot changes topic to "General discussion (20 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 1st September 2022)"07:50
ExTechOphttps://forum.sailfishos.org/t/10iii-crashes-with-beep-when-plugged-into-docking-station/12481 I've just this morning figured out this dramatic crash happens also to a freshly booted Xperia 10III07:50
Nicodocking station? o.o07:51
flypigExTechOp, we discussed this last time if I recall correctly. Could you recap for us please?07:51
ThaodanXperia 10 III doesn't crash with otg at least07:51
Thaodannot sure where the device would crash07:52
ExTechOpSo, I have a ready mini-docking station on the table for use with a laptop. It has a USB-C with a power supply behind it, why not plug the phone into it for recharging if needed?07:52
Thaodanthe kernel shouldn't crash at that poiny07:52
Thaodan*point07:52
fridl#info: fridlmue, community07:53
ExTechOpWorks without any issues with Xperia 10II, but now the 10III actually seems to try to do something with the peripherials plugged into it (display, keyboard, mouse, ethernet) and one of those crashes it.07:53
fridljoining the last mins just for the Stats ;-P07:53
abrcan you narrow that down?07:53
flypigGreetings fridl, and dr_gogeta86 from earlier too.07:54
ExTechOpI believe it's mostly the display, as I've been able to produce the same crash with a display with a power delivery USB-C plugged into it. Also, unplugging the display seems to prevent crash from happening.07:54
dr_gogeta86hi07:54
flypigfridl, please announce yourself for the minutes if you'd like to be included.07:54
NicoThey kinda did, but maybe the colon messes stuff up?07:55
flypigOh, sorry fridl, you already did, my mistake.07:55
flypigNico, it was just me being slow.07:55
abryeah i would think out of those the display would be the prime suspect.07:56
abri just plugged my x10iii into my monitor's usb-c and it rebooted itself ;)07:56
fridlflypig: no problem :-) Nice Jolla-question at the start. Nice answer from ViGe :-)07:56
ExTechOpabr :-D07:57
NicoClearly Jolla needs to add external display support now!07:57
JacekJagosz[m]@Thaodan I had 2 pull requests merged. The CPU configuration fix I believe is nothing wrong with07:58
JacekJagosz[m]And the LMK tuning that you have complaints for07:58
JacekJagosz[m]Could you tell my why the second one you think is wrong? Even with more RAM those tunings cam stay the same07:59
JacekJagosz[m]I looked through sources for other devices, and every other one had exactly those values, no matter how much RAM it had08:00
JacekJagosz[m]This config also worked fine for me08:00
JacekJagosz[m]But if you know something I don't please tell08:01
flypigJacekJagosz[m], it's possible Thaodan was pulled into a meeting I'm afraid.08:04
Thaodanjust wait a sec..08:04
NicoIt is also possible that Thaodan is just crunching number still08:04
flypigSeems so :D08:05
Crabsterflypig, thx for asking earlier, long time enduser lurking only, appreciate what everyone is doing here08:05
flypigCrabster, no problem. Lurking is absolutely fine of course :) But do feel free to announce yourself if you want, it's always nice to know :)08:06
flypigfridl, thanks for the positive feedback :)08:07
flypigWe have 3 more mins on General Discussion. Does anyone want anything from the discussion logged in the minutes?08:07
NicoDid you intent to log the bugger link?08:09
Nico*intend08:10
flypigLinks on a line on their own get logged automatically, I believe.08:10
NicoOh, fancy :308:10
flypigSo, I was expecting it to already be there.. maybe I can check.08:10
* Nico has no idea how the meeting bot does its magic08:10
flypigNor I. As you say, using magic ;)08:11
NicoSooooo, Sailfish 6 will have Qt6, right?08:12
flypigI'm not sure whether it got added, so let me add it with some context.08:12
NicoPerfect :D08:12
flypig#info The Bug Coordination Team have worked on a nice app for easy submission of bugs.08:12
flypig#link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/introducing-new-tool-bugger-the-inofficial-sfos-bug-reporting-tool/1278708:12
flypigAlright, we've hit time I'm afraid.08:13
flypigI'm going to quietly ignore your question Nico ;)08:13
flypigThaodan, last chance to reply...08:13
NicoI figured, very well done ;p08:13
flypigOkay, sorry, time is up!08:14
flypig#topic Next meeting time and date (5 min)08:14
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (5 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 1st September 2022)"08:14
flypigI will be on vacation for the next meeting, bug abr has kindly offered to chair.08:15
flypigProposing Thursday 15th September at 07:00am UTC08:15
Nico:thumbsup:08:15
flypigbug -> but08:15
Nicobugger08:15
ThaodanJacekJagosz[m]: flypig[m] https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/device-sony-lena/pull/2208:15
flypig:D08:15
flypigThanks Thaodan, just in time.08:16
ExTechOp15th September works for me08:16
flypig#info <Thaodan> provided extra info on GitHub08:16
flypig#link https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/device-sony-lena/pull/2208:16
flypigOkay, 15th it is!08:16
flypig#info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 15th September 2022 at 07:00am UTC: 2022-09-15T0700Z08:16
flypigThanks all!08:16
flypig#endmeeting08:16
sailbotMeeting ended Thu Sep  1 08:16:58 2022 UTC.08:16
sailbot Minutes: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2022/sailfishos-meeting.2022-09-01-07.00.html08:16
sailbot Minutes (text): https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2022/sailfishos-meeting.2022-09-01-07.00.txt08:16
sailbot Log: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2022/sailfishos-meeting.2022-09-01-07.00.log.html08:16
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 1st September 2022 at 07:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-1st-september-2022/12698"08:16
ExTechOpThank you, everybody!08:17
flypigReally good to have everyone join :)08:17
NicoSeems like people are already commenting on the PR :D08:17
NicoThanks everyone :308:17
*** ChanServ changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 15th September 2022 at 07:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-15th-september-2022/12861"08:18

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