| *** rainemak__ is now known as rainemak | 06:54 | |
| ExTechOp | Good morning, everyone! | 06:59 |
|---|---|---|
| poetaster | Morning! | 07:00 |
| rainemak | Good morning | 07:00 |
| rainemak | #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 28th Sep 2023 | 07:00 |
| sailbot | Meeting started Thu Sep 28 07:00:06 2023 UTC. The chair is rainemak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 07:00 |
| sailbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 07:00 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 28th Sep 2023)" | 07:00 | |
| rainemak | #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here: | 07:00 |
| rainemak | #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-28th-september-2023/16726 | 07:00 |
| rainemak | I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive. | 07:00 |
| rainemak | #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info | 07:00 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 28th Sep 2023)" | 07:00 | |
| rainemak | #info Raine Mäkeläinen, sailor @ Jolla, chairperson today | 07:01 |
| ExTechOp | #info Otto Mäkelä, community | 07:01 |
| poetaster | #info @poetaster, Mark Washeim, community | 07:01 |
| Crabster | #info Crabster - lurker | 07:02 |
| rainemak | poetaster, thank you for your topic | 07:02 |
| dcaliste | #info Damien Caliste, community | 07:03 |
| poetaster | rainemak, no thanks needed! | 07:04 |
| rainemak | hopefully thigg is able to join as he raised a good topic as well | 07:05 |
| rainemak | let's start with 1st topic | 07:05 |
| poetaster | true! | 07:05 |
| rainemak | #topic Notification popups in lipstick (10mins -- asked by thigg) | 07:05 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Notification popups in lipstick (10mins -- asked by thigg) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 28th Sep 2023)" | 07:05 | |
| rainemak | #info <thigg> Sometimes (especially when using android apps) | 07:05 |
| rainemak | #info <thigg> notifications are hiding other ui elements (forum: Notifications hiding buttons). | 07:05 |
| rainemak | #info <thigg> My idea to handle this was to mute notifications for some time (30s) if the | 07:05 |
| rainemak | #info <thigg> notification is swiped to the left. After 30s a notification is shown that | 07:05 |
| rainemak | #info <thigg> notifications are enabled again and the notifications from the queue are shown. | 07:05 |
| rainemak | #info <thigg> | 07:05 |
| rainemak | #info <thigg> This looks quite simple to implement at https://github.com/nemomobile-ux/lipstick/blob/e6e336f4c7e190f8c24802cc1337efa39be7bf93/src/notifications/notificationpreviewpresenter.cpp#L88 | 07:05 |
| rainemak | #info <thigg> by returning early if the current time is <= the time in a muted_until value | 07:05 |
| rainemak | #info <thigg> and patching the notification popup Notifications hiding buttons - #6 by thigg. | 07:06 |
| rainemak | #info <thigg> When the notifications are muted, a timer is started which fires a “notifications | 07:06 |
| rainemak | #info <thigg> enabled” notification after the mute period and this would trigger the appearance | 07:06 |
| rainemak | #info <thigg> of all other notifications. And probably a dbus interface for lipstick to set muted_until | 07:06 |
| rainemak | #info <thigg> from the popup. | 07:06 |
| rainemak | #info <thigg> | 07:06 |
| rainemak | #info <thigg> Because modifications to lipstick are hard (impossible?) to deliver to users, | 07:06 |
| rainemak | #info <thigg> collaboration with jolla would be helpful. At least the dbus- interface to set | 07:06 |
| rainemak | #info <thigg> muted_until would have to be done by jolla. | 07:06 |
| rainemak | #info <thigg> | 07:06 |
| rainemak | #info <thigg> I’d like to discuss the problem, this proposed workaround and if jolla is willing to | 07:06 |
| rainemak | #info <thigg> collaborate on this (or even do it on their own) | 07:06 |
| rainemak | #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/notifications-hiding-buttons/16717 | 07:06 |
| rainemak | #link https://github.com/nemomobile-ux/lipstick/blob/e6e336f4c7e190f8c24802cc1337efa39be7bf93/src/notifications/notificationpreviewpresenter.cpp#L88 | 07:06 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> Thank you thigg! This is a very good and interesting topic. This is indeed | 07:06 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> something occasionally annoys users. One idea that was brought up could be | 07:06 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> using similar adaptive mechanisms that is used for display dimming. For example, | 07:06 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> it could be so that first notification that is dismissed by swipe could suppress | 07:06 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> notification queue for 5sec, next new notification that is dismissed by swipe | 07:06 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> would prolong suppress to 10sec, and so on. | 07:06 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> | 07:07 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> Related to this, one problematic app category is navigation apps as those might start | 07:07 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> showing notifications from your route and those might be triggered too frequently. | 07:07 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> In this kind of scenario, one might want to have notification suppressed completely | 07:07 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> from the app that spams notifications. Worth exploring whether this kind of action | 07:07 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> could be visible by default. | 07:07 |
| rainemak | I think there are multitude of aspects that should/could be tackled. | 07:09 |
| poetaster | tooter is still somewhat broken where notifications are concerned, but it's good at spamming the notifications queue. It's a bit embarrasing. | 07:09 |
| rainemak | What are most cumbersome scenarios when you feel this should be working differently | 07:10 |
| rainemak | ? | 07:10 |
| poetaster | rainemak, what I was getting at is that tooter misbehaves and the consequence is that the use get's a flood of notifications. | 07:12 |
| rainemak | I'd vote for easy way to suppress notification completely from an app that send them | 07:12 |
| poetaster | rainemak, yes. | 07:13 |
| rainemak | not queuing them at all just completely ignoring | 07:13 |
| rainemak | for some time | 07:14 |
| dcaliste | rainemak, do you think that implementing something like the dimming logic can be done in the OS parts only ? | 07:14 |
| dcaliste | Does it require some changes in jolla-lipstick, or only in lipstick itself ? | 07:14 |
| rainemak | MCE implements that adaptive dimming. | 07:15 |
| rainemak | dcaliste, gut feeling is that this needs to be orchestrated between lipstick-jolla-home and lipstick | 07:16 |
| rainemak | we run out of time but as we one topic left I extend this one by 5mins | 07:17 |
| rainemak | so 2mins left :-) | 07:18 |
| rainemak | we have one topic left ^ | 07:18 |
| dcaliste | ok, so something that community can hardly complete. What about providing a plan for lipstick-jolla-home and discuss it in an issue in lipstick or in a meeting ? | 07:18 |
| rainemak | opening an issue in lipstick sounds like good plan | 07:18 |
| rainemak | dcaliste, would you like to create one? | 07:19 |
| dcaliste | Not necessary myself, maybe thigg who thought more about the issue may see it as a way forward. | 07:20 |
| rainemak | certainly, that makes sense | 07:21 |
| rainemak | thank you | 07:21 |
| rainemak | It's time to move on | 07:21 |
| rainemak | #topic Guidance about maintaining an HADK-faq wiki page (5mins -- asked by poetaster) | 07:21 |
| rainemak | #info <poetaster> In the main, a number of porters have mentioned the difficulty in | 07:21 |
| rainemak | #info <poetaster> working on the HADK docs. And ad-hoc etherpad is the present hacking | 07:21 |
| rainemak | #info <poetaster> approach. To get the more structured I created HADK | SailfishOS community | 07:21 |
| rainemak | #info <poetaster> wiki 4 This contains a dump of the etherpad and a first transfer of the faq | 07:21 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Guidance about maintaining an HADK-faq wiki page (5mins -- asked by poetaster) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 28th Sep 2023)" | 07:21 | |
| rainemak | #info <poetaster> PDF to a wiki page. This is far from ideal. Is source for the pdf available | 07:21 |
| rainemak | #info <poetaster> or is it a classic ‘word like’ document? | 07:21 |
| rainemak | #link https://sailfishos.wiki/books/hadk | 07:21 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> Thank you for asking. Which ad-hoc etherpad you’re referring to? We moved | 07:22 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> http://piratepad.net/hadk-faq-v2 content to https://github.com/mer-hybris/hadk-faq | 07:22 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> some time back already. Intention there is that hadk-faq would be used wiki like | 07:22 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> and people would create PRs to it. | 07:22 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> | 07:22 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> HADK is not a word document rather a set of rst from which pdf is generated. | 07:22 |
| poetaster | The etherpad I'm refering to is: https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/hadk-hot which one of the porters said was 'go to' currently. | 07:23 |
| poetaster | ok, cool I know the origins now. that helps a lot. | 07:23 |
| rainemak | after piratepad was closed we created that https://github.com/mer-hybris/hadk-faq | 07:24 |
| rainemak | mal would probably recall time frame when above happened but maybe he's not around | 07:25 |
| flypig | #info David Llewellyn-Jones, community, latecomer | 07:26 |
| rainemak | :) | 07:26 |
| poetaster | rainemak, but that is not the source of: https://docs.sailfishos.org/Develop/HADK/SailfishOS-HardwareAdaptationDevelopmentKit-4.5.0.19.pdf | 07:26 |
| rainemak | flypig, lurker :-) and /me joking | 07:26 |
| flypig | I've been lurking for a bit; there's never a good time to throw in a random #info :) | 07:27 |
| rainemak | poetaster, nope. That was created to complement the pdf | 07:27 |
| poetaster | rainemak, ok, clear. thanks. | 07:28 |
| rainemak | and actually hadk-faq has uses similar rst format as hadk pdf itself | 07:28 |
| rainemak | alright, thank you | 07:28 |
| rainemak | Let's move on | 07:28 |
| flypig | Just to be clear: are the rst for the pdf public? | 07:28 |
| rainemak | hadk repository itself is closed but is rst based | 07:29 |
| flypig | Got it; thanks! | 07:29 |
| rainemak | #topic Open PR discussion (10 mins -- asked by jolla) | 07:30 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Open PR discussion (10 mins -- asked by jolla) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 28th Sep 2023)" | 07:30 | |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> Any other open PRs to discuss? | 07:30 |
| flypig | Thanks for merging direc85's PR since the last meeting. | 07:30 |
| rainemak | #link https://github.com/sailfishos/gcc/pull/4 | 07:32 |
| flypig | That's the one :) It worked nicely. | 07:32 |
| dcaliste | Maybe still recent, but this one from attah : https://github.com/sailfishos/cairo/pull/3 ? | 07:35 |
| dcaliste | Or this one from thigg in the documentation : https://github.com/sailfishos/docs.sailfishos.org/pull/377 ? | 07:36 |
| flypig | It's nice that updating cairo allows a patch to be dropped. | 07:36 |
| rainemak | we should build sailfish core against new cairo | 07:36 |
| rainemak | just to be sure | 07:37 |
| dcaliste | rainemak, indeed, good point for full rebuild and check. They have a stable API, so nothing should break, but just to be sure ;) | 07:38 |
| rainemak | dcaliste, merged thigg's PR | 07:39 |
| dcaliste | Thanks for him. | 07:39 |
| flypig | Nice; this process really works :D | 07:39 |
| rainemak | and this can be adhoc linking as well | 07:40 |
| rainemak | #topic Untracked bug reports (5 min -- asked by pherjung) | 07:41 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Untracked bug reports (5 min -- asked by pherjung) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 28th Sep 2023)" | 07:41 | |
| rainemak | #topic Untracked bug reports (5 min -- asked by pherjung) | 07:41 |
| rainemak | #info <pherjung> Untracked bug reports | 07:41 |
| rainemak | #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-14th-september-2023/16646/3 | 07:41 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> The Community Bug Coordination Team have done a superb job once again this fortnight. | 07:41 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> 10 high quality bugs reported. Most of them are/will be recorded internally. | 07:41 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Untracked bug reports (5 min -- asked by pherjung) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 28th Sep 2023)" | 07:41 | |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> Tracker flags are missing from the forum. | 07:41 |
| poetaster | what are Tracker flags? | 07:44 |
| rainemak | tracked == tracker :-) | 07:44 |
| poetaster | ah, got ya. from internal system to public forum. | 07:45 |
| rainemak | in practice it means that there's a link in internal system to public forum | 07:45 |
| rainemak | but those tracked flags are added manually | 07:46 |
| rainemak | Let's move on to the general discussion. | 07:46 |
| rainemak | #topic General discussion (5 min) | 07:46 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "General discussion (5 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 28th Sep 2023)" | 07:46 | |
| rainemak | flypig, would you like to give an update regarding esr91 ? | 07:46 |
| flypig | Oh, sure! | 07:47 |
| rainemak | did yet read number 42 | 07:47 |
| flypig | The build has reached the linking stage (as of today it actually links in fact!). So it's getting there. | 07:47 |
| rainemak | from diary | 07:47 |
| ExTechOp | Once again, are there any news that can be shared about Jolla's funding and/or ownership status? | 07:48 |
| rainemak | no comments | 07:48 |
| rainemak | flypig, seems that you hit the linker... that's nice | 07:49 |
| ExTechOp | rainemak :-( | 07:51 |
| flypig | Sorry, I'm on a train, poor connectivity through the tunnels! | 07:51 |
| poetaster | flaypig, 42 is a nice post ... non-virtual thunk espcially. | 07:51 |
| flypig | This is the first time I heard about thunks! | 07:52 |
| dcaliste | flypig, great achievement that you reach the creation of the library. A huge step forward. | 07:52 |
| poetaster | flypig, me too! | 07:52 |
| flypig | Thanks dcaliste. It won't work of course :) | 07:52 |
| Nico | flypig: you are on a train, you should hear plenty of thunks :p | 07:52 |
| flypig | Haha! That's true! | 07:53 |
| flypig | I want to ask another quick question: would Jolla be interested in joining a Linux-on-Mobile stand at FOSDEM 2024? Or is this for a proper question at the next meeting? | 07:53 |
| dcaliste | flypig, of course, but already very good. I'm finishing moving code in QMF from Qcop to QDBus. I've finished the compilation part. I'm not expecting it to work either ! | 07:54 |
| flypig | dcaliste, amazing! Can you post a link please? | 07:54 |
| flypig | I don't know Qcop. Is it similar to QDBus? | 07:54 |
| dcaliste | QMF thingies: https://codereview.qt-project.org/c/qt-labs/messagingframework/+/507382 | 07:55 |
| flypig | That looks like a lot of work. | 07:55 |
| dcaliste | Qcop was the KDE (or Qt) initial implementation for IPC before Gnome reached Freedesktop first with DBus and then it was widely adopted. | 07:55 |
| rainemak | I like the discussion around source code :-) | 07:55 |
| flypig | https://codereview.qt-project.org/c/qt-labs/messagingframework/+/507382 | 07:56 |
| flypig | (for the minutes) | 07:56 |
| rainemak | as discussion is on going, let's give 2mins more for this | 07:56 |
| rainemak | scheduling next meeting doesn't take that long | 07:56 |
| rainemak | #link https://codereview.qt-project.org/c/qt-labs/messagingframework/+/507382 | 07:56 |
| flypig | What will the change allow in practice dcaliste? An updated QMF on Sailfish? | 07:57 |
| flypig | QMF = the underlying email system, right? | 07:57 |
| rainemak | #info <dcaliste> Switching QCop to D-Bus for IPC ^ | 07:58 |
| rainemak | qt messaging framework | 07:58 |
| poetaster | IPC is inter process or? | 07:58 |
| dcaliste | Well, in practice, it is more a modernisation of the QMF code. And a slight reduction of its code base, now using Qt DBus implementation for inter process. | 07:58 |
| rainemak | inter process communication | 07:58 |
| dcaliste | Yes, IPC means inter-process communication and QMF stands for Qt Messagung Framework. It's the email daemon and library in Sailfish OS. | 07:59 |
| rainemak | #topic Next meeting time and date (1 min) | 07:59 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (1 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 28th Sep 2023)" | 07:59 | |
| rainemak | Proposing Thursday 12th October at 07:00am UTC. | 07:59 |
| flypig | Still before the clocks change. | 07:59 |
| rainemak | yeap | 07:59 |
| rainemak | #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 12th October 2023 at 07:00am UTC: 2023-10-12T0700Z | 07:59 |
| rainemak | Thank you everyone for the meeting! | 07:59 |
| ExTechOp | Thank you everyone! | 08:00 |
| poetaster | Thanks everyone! | 08:00 |
| flypig | Thanks rainemak, everyone! | 08:00 |
| Crabster | thx! | 08:00 |
| rainemak | #endmeeting | 08:00 |
| sailbot | Meeting ended Thu Sep 28 08:00:22 2023 UTC. | 08:00 |
| sailbot | Minutes: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2023/sailfishos-meeting.2023-09-28-07.00.html | 08:00 |
| sailbot | Minutes (text): https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2023/sailfishos-meeting.2023-09-28-07.00.txt | 08:00 |
| sailbot | Log: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2023/sailfishos-meeting.2023-09-28-07.00.log.html | 08:00 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 28th September 2023 at 07:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-28th-september-2023/16726" | 08:00 | |
| dcaliste | thank you everyone, enjoy the end of the week. | 08:00 |
| dcaliste | There are two IPC channels in the mailer daemon at the moment. One when the email application (or any client) is asking the mail daemon to fetch emails (or any server related operation), listening for signals (like attachment downloaded). And another IPC channel used by the mail storage to notify any other instance of the storage that something has been done by one instance. | 08:03 |
| poetaster | ok, so also used to generate notifications? | 08:04 |
| dcaliste | Yes, there is a specific QMF plugin (https://github.com/sailfishos/qmf-notifications-plugin) that is used to listen to the maileer daemon signals and translate them into system notifications. | 08:06 |
| poetaster | Thanks! I need to identify some best practices since I need to fix tooters behaviour. | 08:07 |
| *** ChanServ changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 12th October 2023 at 07:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-12th-october-2023/16859" | 08:11 | |
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