07:01:04 <flypig> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 29th September 2022
07:01:04 <sailbot> Meeting started Thu Sep 29 07:01:04 2022 UTC. The chair is flypig. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
07:01:04 <sailbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
07:01:12 <flypig> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:
07:01:17 <flypig> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-29th-september-2022/12981/3
07:01:21 <flypig> Good morning all.
07:01:26 <flypig> I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my keep best to order and time.
07:01:34 <flypig> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info
07:02:15 <flypig> #info David Llewellyn-Jones - sailor @ jolla
07:02:31 <Tomin> #info Tomi Leppänen - sailor @ Jolla
07:02:43 <karry> #info Lukáš Karas - community developer
07:03:13 <sledges> #info Simonas Leleiva - for privateer Jolla
07:03:33 <ViGe> #info Ville Nummela - sailor @ Jolla
07:05:03 <fridl> #info fridlmue - community
07:05:15 <ExTechOp> #info Otto Mäkelä, community
07:06:03 <flypig> Thanks to everyone for joining, it's nice to have you all here.
07:06:22 <flypig> 4-3 to the sailors today ;)
07:06:49 <flypig> Since we didn't have any questions this week, we thought we'd invite a special guest to talk about Exchange support, so we have a jolla question about that.
07:06:57 <Tomin> o/
07:07:01 <flypig> #topic Microsoft Exchange OAuth2 support (20 mins -- asked by jolla)
07:07:07 <flypig> #info <jolla> As has been raised on the forum, Microsoft will be phasing out basic authentication (passwords) for Exchange (including Office 365) accounts from October this year.
07:07:16 <flypig> #info <jolla> We have been working hard to develop support for new authentication methods to ensure Exchange support continues to work on Sailfish OS after the transition.
07:07:24 <flypig> #info <jolla> We know this potentially affects a number of people, so we're very pleased to have Tomi Leppänen (**tomin**), lead developer for the upcoming Sailfish OS Exchange update, join us to discuss Jolla's work in this area.
07:07:34 <flypig> #info <jolla> In the meeting Tomi will briefly summarise the situation, after which you will be welcome to ask questions.
07:07:40 <flypig> (that's now)
07:07:45 <flypig> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/modern-authentication-oauth-support-for-the-microsoft-exchange-activesync-e-mail-contacts-calendar/5237
07:07:50 <flypig> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/basic-authentication-deprecated-by-microsoft/2905
07:07:59 <flypig> So we'll first have a quick intro Q&A where I ask Tomi some of the questions that we think will be generally of interest. We have seven questions, so please bear with us! After that we can follow up with any other questions.
07:08:13 <flypig> Tomi, tell us about your role at Jolla?
07:08:22 <Tomin> I’m a software developer.
07:08:32 <flypig> Very pithy :) What is Exchange and where will people have seen it on Sailfish OS?
07:08:45 <Tomin> It’s one of the account types on Sailfish that you get when purchasing a Sailfish X license. Exchange syncs mail, calendar and contacts from cloud to the device.
07:09:06 <flypig> What is the issue with Basic authentication and how is this relevant to Sailfish OS users?
07:09:22 <Tomin> Microsoft wants to deprecate basic authentication because it’s less secure than newer token-based authentication methods.
07:09:36 <Tomin> Current releases of Sailfish OS only support Basic authentication, which will stop working eventually as Microsoft is turning off Basic authentication for their customers.
07:09:46 <Tomin> #link https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/exchange-team-blog/basic-authentication-deprecation-in-exchange-online-september/ba-p/3609437
07:09:57 <flypig> What has Jolla been working on to try to address this?
07:10:14 <Tomin> We have been improving our OAuth 2 support in general, adding a new account type that supports Exchange ActiveSync with Modern Authentication (aka OAuth 2), and enhancing Exchange support to handle tokens instead of usernames and passwords.
07:10:25 <Tomin> Exchange support is closed source, but here are the related PRs on open source components from Github:
07:10:34 <Tomin> #link https://github.com/sailfishos/libsignon/pull/5
07:10:43 <Tomin> #link https://github.com/sailfishos/signon-plugin-oauth2/pull/1
07:10:50 <Tomin> #link https://github.com/sailfishos/signon-plugin-oauth2/pull/2
07:11:02 <flypig> Will the new authentication work with all Exchange accounts?
07:11:17 <Tomin> There are many different Exchange servers and configurations in the wild. We’ve been able to test only on limited number of them.
07:11:27 <Tomin> Thus it’s important that people give us feedback on accounts that they try.
07:11:37 <Tomin> Exchange with personal accounts, for example Outlook.com email, is something which won’t work yet.
07:11:45 <Tomin> We are working on that still, and hopefully it can be supported in a future release.
07:11:54 <Tomin> The “Microsoft Exchange” type account will continue working until Microsoft disables Basic authentication.
07:12:02 <flypig> Okay, so crucially, what will this mean for users of Sailfish OS?
07:12:18 <Tomin> If you use Exchange with a work or school account, once this support is released you’ll need to update your devices to latest release and recreate your Exchange account.
07:12:27 <Tomin> It is important that you delete the previous “Microsoft Exchange” account and create “Microsoft 365” account.
07:12:42 <Tomin> If you are using “Microsoft Exchange” with a server from some other party than Microsoft, they may keep Basic authentication on and you don’t need to do anything.
07:12:51 <flypig> And finally, the question everyone wants to know the answer to: when will the changes be released?
07:12:57 <Tomin> We haven’t given a public release date yet, but we’re hoping it can be released soon.
07:13:24 <flypig> :) Thanks Tomi! Hopefully that was useful for anyone who's using Exchange on Sailfish OS.
07:13:40 <flypig> If anyone else would like to ask Tomi questions about this, then please feel free.
07:13:44 <ExTechOp> Tomin: Will the improved Oauth2 code help with other services with similar authentication schemes, or has Microsoft once again done their EEE thing?
07:15:13 <ExTechOp> I mean, Google APIs use OAuth2 but obviously more work is needed with Microsoft.
07:15:29 <fridl> Will it need an update of SFOS for this new account type, simply an update of Exchange Support in the Harbour will not do the trick, is that correct?
07:15:47 <flypig> Both excellent questions :)
07:15:48 <Tomin> ExTechOp: Improving part here is mostly about upgrading our OAuth2 plugin, so there are certainly bugfixes there :)
07:16:19 <Tomin> Also if something happened to change to use JWT, that would be better supported now
07:16:29 <flypig> What is JWT?
07:17:05 <flypig> Jelly Wobbly Technical stuff?
07:17:12 <Tomin> It's short for JSON Web Token
07:17:56 <flypig> So that's the format used to contain the authentication token?
07:18:33 <flypig> #link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSON_Web_Token
07:18:52 <Tomin> That's the format that the authentication token uses, at least for organizational 365 accounts. It contains authentication and authorization information
07:19:03 <flypig> Perfect, thank you!
07:19:45 <Tomin> fridl: We will make a Sailfish OS update for that
07:20:37 <flypig> Just to clarify that point, some of the changes required are to packages that aren't just part of the EAS codebase.
07:20:48 <Tomin> Yes, indeed :)
07:20:56 <fridl> Tomin: makes sense, if the OAuth2 is that deeply integrated in SFOS itself.
07:21:34 <ExTechOp> A practical thing about using Oauth2 for Google accounts: it mostly works, but occasionally when you have entered the username and password correctly, the final screen where you have to press "allow" or some similar button, it gets rendered silly small, un-resizable, and un-clickable. Anyone seen this?
07:22:38 <flypig> If I recall correctly, Oauth2 for the Google account opens in the browser, is that correct ExTechOp?
07:23:07 <ExTechOp> I believe so, though in some way embedded.
07:25:14 <Tomin> We are trying to move all of the accounts to external browser to avoid issues with embedded browser
07:25:45 <Tomin> That means also it could improve in the near future :)
07:26:06 <flypig> But ExTechOp, if you continue to see that, please let us know.
07:26:13 <ExTechOp> Will do
07:26:17 <flypig> Thanks :)
07:27:39 <flypig> Okay, we hit time and had some nice questions, thank you ExTechOp and fridl. Let's move on to the next topic.
07:28:04 <flypig> If anyone has further questions, feel free to ask them in the General section. Tomi will be sticking around (I hope).
07:28:21 <flypig> Thank you Tomi for the useful insight!
07:28:24 <flypig> #topic Open PR discussion (10 min -- asked by jolla)
07:28:28 <flypig> #info <jolla> Any open PRs to discuss?
07:28:51 <flypig> We didn't have any posted to the forum, but if anyone would like to raise one now, please feel free.
07:32:00 <flypig> Okay, I guess we don't have any today. Please feel free to bring your dangling PRs to the next meeting :)
07:32:17 <flypig> #topic Untracked bug reports (5 min -- asked by pherjung)
07:32:25 <flypig> #info <pherjung> The Community Bug Coordination Team have done a superb job once again this fortnight.
07:32:33 <flypig> #info <Jolla> Here is our usual summary of their excellent work:
07:32:38 <flypig> #info <Jolla> - 7 high quality bug reports now recorded internally and tagged as "tracked".
07:32:44 <flypig> #info <Jolla> - 3 bug reports marked as "pending" more info.
07:32:50 <flypig> #info <Jolla> - 3 bug reports tagged as "fixed".
07:32:54 <flypig> #info <Jolla> - 5 marked as duplicates and closed.
07:32:58 <flypig> #info <Jolla> - 3 recategorised as Feature Requests.
07:33:26 <flypig> My feeling is that the bug reports section is looking a lot more clear now. Thanks again for all your work BCT!
07:33:41 <flypig> Now go General Discussion
07:33:42 <flypig> #topic General discussion (20 min)
07:33:56 <flypig> s/go/to/
07:33:58 <fridl> Yeah, thanks to the Bug Coordination Team!
07:34:04 <Nico> Tomin, I love your humor, thank you for joining us!
07:35:42 <Tomin> Nico: thanks! :)
07:35:47 <Nico> Nobody has anything to discuss, huh?
07:36:19 <ViGe> I just started to wonder where I could get a jar of Jolly Wobbly Technical stuff.
07:36:31 <fridl> Just the normal things never gets a proper answer (for good reasons ;-P) like: How is Jolla doing these days in general? Lots of work on Automotive? Are there rumors or news that can be shared ;-P
07:37:03 <ExTechOp> I could bring up again the issue of network hopping (mobile network to wifi and back), and how applications still keep falling on the wayside when this happens. Is this being actively worked on?
07:37:04 <flypig> ViGe, I can sell you some if you like... super cheap ;)
07:37:04 <thilo[m]> The sdk uses qemu for the build targets, right? Can anyone point me to where this is installed and configured?
07:38:19 <flypig> fridl, all very good questions, and they will all get answered eventually :)
07:38:20 <ViGe> thilo[m]: Why would you need to do that?
07:38:24 <thilo[m]> Flypig: do you ship all over EU? ;)
07:38:55 <flypig> thilo[m], I do, postage and packing at Very Good Rates (tm) ;)
07:38:57 <Nico> BREAKING: flypig confirms Qt update in the next Sailfish update!
07:39:22 <flypig> :D
07:39:28 <thilo[m]> The graalvm java compiler needs more memory, flypig looked into it and said the qemu has some limitations and i wanted to see if i can hack something
07:39:38 <Nico> Everything you say is used against you :3
07:40:07 <Nico> thilo, is that when running in docker mode?
07:40:20 <thilo[m]> Flypig: just make sure i dont get a sobbing, leaking , wet parcel again ;)
07:40:27 <flypig> Haha :D
07:41:07 <flypig> ExTechOp, concerning your networking question, if nobody can give an answer to that today, I'll try to get you an answer for the next meeting.
07:41:28 <thilo[m]> I am in docker mode, but actually haven't tried it yet. I started poking around, looking for where the target machines are defined
07:41:59 <abr> fridl: fine thanks. how are you?
07:42:11 <ViGe> thilo[m]: that's interesting, but are you really sure it's because of qemu?
07:42:15 <flypig> I think QEMU was used in both Docker and VirtualBox mode. Is that correct ViGe?
07:42:35 <thilo[m]> I need > 1gb ram for compilation ( sighs)
07:42:35 <ViGe> flypig: yes, that's correct
07:42:55 <Nico> I regularly need more than 1gb too and it is fine
07:43:16 <ExTechOp> flypig It would be nice to hear some answers, because this has been a pain for several releases. Even now I have system/utilities/network restart open so that I can reset the network if I walk out of wifi and (specially Android apps) don't get connectivity.
07:43:20 <fridl> abr: hihi, nice to hear that! Doing good, too. ;-)
07:43:59 <thilo[m]> So you wouldnt expect this to be the issue?
07:44:09 <fridl> ExTechOp: I mainly do not use Wifi on my phone anymore because of that.
07:44:43 <Nico> thilo, I would not :D
07:44:53 <flypig> fridl, understood, and I think this was an issue that was raised a meeting or two ago. I can appreciate an update would be useful.
07:44:57 <Nico> What target are you compiling for? aarch64?
07:45:43 <flypig> Sorry, my previous message was aimed at both fridl and ExTechOp
07:47:33 <thilo[m]> aarch64, yes
07:48:54 <Nico> Interesting :D
07:50:41 <flypig> If I'm recalling correctly thilo[m], it's an issue that's confined to running the JVM in QEMU. Non-Java builds using >1mb aren't necessarily affected.
07:53:05 <flypig> Tomin has helpfully pointed out that I should have written >1gb there ;)
07:53:12 <Tomin> ;)
07:53:18 <thilo[m]> ;)
07:53:28 <Nico> Well, it is technically correct
07:53:35 <thilo[m]> i got that right in post-processing ;)
07:53:48 <flypig> :D
07:54:28 <thilo[m]> I am looking into it right now but this takes some time ;)
07:55:04 <flypig> Good luck with it thilo[m], as you already know, I think it'd be really great to get your toolchain working in the SDK.
07:55:12 <flypig> Okay, we're not in a rush today, but I think this may be a good time to wrap up. Any final questions or topics to raise?
07:55:28 <thilo[m]> ill report back to the regular irc room
07:55:54 <flypig> 👍️
07:56:17 <flypig> #topic Next meeting time and date (5 min)
07:56:23 <flypig> Proposing Thursday 13th October at 07:00am UTC
07:56:40 <flypig> Any objections?
07:57:42 <ExTechOp> Works 4 me
07:58:03 <flypig> Alright, let's go with that then :)
07:58:07 <flypig> #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 13th October 2022 at 07:00am UTC: 2022-10-13T0700Z
07:58:39 <flypig> So, that wraps things up. I just want to take the opportunity to thank abr for doing a great job chairing last week, and to Tomin for joining us as a special guest today :)
07:59:07 <flypig> #endmeeting