#jollamobile log for Sunday, 2013-12-15

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nadrielAhoy,00:01
nadrielAnyone where should I report bugs? Don't know if the best way would be through care@jolla00:02
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FireFlyI think they're working on some better way to report bugs00:03
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nadrielDangit.. whatever that was..00:06
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pdanekI'm now really worried, that Jolla won't arrive until Christmas. :(00:10
pdanekIs there any chance, that it has been already shipped, even if I didn't receive tracking number?00:11
faenilpdanek, don't worry, keep tight :)00:18
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faenilgood night o/00:18
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artemmapdanek: check crowdsourced order status table, see if statuses around your orders are shipped00:18
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Turskinadriel: this channel works too for bug reporting :P00:21
Turskinadriel: there's a handful of jolla developers here00:21
pdanekartemma: where do I find this?00:21
pdanekin shop.jolla.com I still see Order Status: Paid00:22
pdanekand I paid on 11/27/1300:22
artemmaWhat is qt5-qtdeclarative-import-models2? And what is the normal procedure to figure out the package content?00:23
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Turskipkcon get-details qt5-qtdeclarative-import-models200:24
artemmapdanek https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqcXroZyLBjPdGJ4WmhOMlZBaVdEc2g1TmY3cXNLeWc&usp=drive_web00:24
Dima^allright.. I'm gonna sell my N900:24
artemmaTurski: thanks. Didn't clarify enough for me though :/00:25
artemmaIs it needed for XmlListModel for example?00:25
pdanekDo you think shipping country matters? (except Finland)00:26
pdanekOr it's all about who pre-ordered 1st?00:26
pdanekIf I knew shipping country matters, I would ship to Poland instead of Slovakia maybe.00:26
Turskiartemma: i have no idea00:27
Turskiartemma: you probably should ask google00:27
artemmaHmm, import QtQuick.XmlListModel 2.0 is enough for photoviewer, but in my app I get Uncaught exception: XmlListModel is not defined00:27
Turskihttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=9111600:28
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pdanekartemma: thanks for link, it's perfect00:33
pdanekartemma: already fixed the data of my order there :)00:33
artemmaah, that was missing XmlListModel import in my test file00:35
artemmapdanek, u r welcome00:35
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pdanekDo you think Jolla already attracted same or more developers than Hartmann did, or not even close?01:09
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Yanielso um01:19
Yanielhow do I boot the phone when it has < 15% battery and is charging01:19
Yanielit powers on but only shows the "charging" symbol + percentage01:19
Yanieldoesn't boot to the actual UI01:19
Yaniel(or I'm doing something wrong)01:20
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pdanekhttp://forum.jollausers.com/jolla-phone/first-jolla-droptest/02:23
pdanekhm... my N900 dropped to pavement so many times and survived like a tank02:23
SpeedEvilGet a third party warranty.02:24
SpeedEvil^that covers accidental damage02:24
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pdanekhas this IRC channel become like semi-official?03:39
pdanekconsidering topic like: business inquiries at info@jolla.com03:39
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smokexsingle # channels are indeed official pdanek04:44
SpeedEvilOr legacy ones nobodies complained about04:58
SpeedEvil#nethack springs to mind04:58
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Nicd-smokex: this channel is not official07:20
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Stskeepsgood morning07:55
StskeepsDocScrutinizer05: you're berlin based aren't you, or do i remember wrong?07:56
DocScrutinizer05nope, other end07:57
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Stskeepsokiedokie07:58
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CoderCandyHi people!08:32
Stskeepshewwo08:33
CoderCandyGuess what kind of phone I have08:33
Stskeepsa nexus 4?08:33
CoderCandyNope08:33
CoderCandyA really old Nokia, because the estimated delivery time for Jolla is long as hell :<08:34
CoderCandyBut this thursday or somewhere in the next week it should FINALLY be here!08:34
CoderCandySoo... What can I expect when it actually arrives?08:34
Stskeepsit said 3-4 weeks from payment time when you ordered, didn't it?08:36
Stskeepsmany are getting it before though08:36
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ShadowJKAwesomeness and an unpolished diamond08:37
StskeepsShadowJK: the jolla?08:37
Stskeeps:P08:37
ShadowJKthat's what reviewers say08:37
ShadowJK:P08:37
Stskeepshehe08:37
* ShadowJK is waiting for his still08:37
Stskeepspolishing is for updates ;)08:37
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MFaro-Tusinooff topic n00b question - how do you get the formatting like " () ShadowJK is waiting for his still"08:56
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CoderCandyoh08:57
CoderCandyI haven't gotten mine yet though :(08:58
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StskeepsMFaro-Tusino: /me does something08:59
nadrieli have and i like it.08:59
* MFaro-Tusino tests what stskeeps said08:59
MFaro-TusinoWOO08:59
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tbrIn that sense I have a banana phone. got it fully green and it's now ripening with me, the customer. ;)09:01
nadrielCoderCandy, It's not just Jolla, for some weird reason my jolla took 5 days to get from Vantaa Itella logistics center to Turku.09:01
Stskeepsjolla, the true bananaphone09:01
tbryup, exactly my thought09:02
tbrbanana-other-half?09:02
CoderCandynadriel, ah, you got tracking on your?09:02
nadrielWell, there was weekend in between, but you'd think during christmasttime they've got people over weekends in logistics09:02
CoderCandyyours*09:02
tbrturns more yellow with every update09:02
nadrielCoderCandy, already got mine in hand.09:02
CoderCandyah09:02
nadrielGot on wednesday09:02
CoderCandyI ordered mine at 28th of November09:02
nadrielI was preorderer in 1st wave09:03
CoderCandyI don't know which one I was in09:03
CoderCandyProbably not first anyway09:03
nadrielStskeeps, mine tends to go pink/purple. I want bananayellow.09:03
nadrielDid you get a beanie or t-shirt with your order or was there even a chance?09:04
CoderCandydon't think so09:05
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CoderCandyno I did not get the chance to get any sort of other stuff09:05
CoderCandyexcept for the jolla itself that is.09:05
CoderCandyI really hope there will be a HW keyboard OH at some point..09:05
nadrielOh, maybe not preorderer then. HW kbd would be nice, even though this finger term and virtual kbd works fine.09:06
nadrielMy old phone was HTC Desire Z.09:06
CoderCandyI joined when there was this $0 prebooking whatever09:06
nadrielAaaa, then you're preorderer and they'll work their asses off to get the phone for you and apologize in the mix for taking so long.09:07
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CoderCandyHahaha, lol09:08
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* mattaustin has a Nexus 4 haning around which was used for Android app development (never as my actual phone). Will use my Jolla as my phone, but if you will need beta testers on other hardware, I volunteer!09:11
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nadrielhttp://www.jollatides.com/2013/11/29/jolla-how-to-access-google-play/09:20
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Nicd-their command is broken09:28
Nicd-since -- is turned into –09:28
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nadrielNicd-: ah ok.09:37
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nanderhttp://www.baldursgate.com/android.en.html << would this work on jolla?09:40
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nadrielnander: probly09:43
Nicd-if the specs allow it09:43
nanderIt used to run on (I think) 64 MHz ;)09:44
nanderBack in '9809:44
nadrielI bought BGII several times. : )09:45
nadrielThem bloody CD's kept blowing up in the drive.09:46
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Nicd-nander: yeah but these reimplemented games usually require higher specs09:46
Nicd-my dual-core macbook barely runs Descent II as released by GoG09:47
nadrielInterweb claims tegra 2 or equivalent, android 4.0 or newer and at least 2,5 GB or free space09:49
nadriels/or/of09:49
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DottiScreen on jolla might be too small for that. I ported GemRB (with BG2) to N9 but it was not really playable09:53
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nadrielHoh, Jolla might have too many pixels for Arcanum. : )09:56
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nadrielI recently replayed it with my 27" 2560x1440 display. Them pixels were more like boxes they were big.09:57
nadrielboxels09:57
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Tofemorning!09:58
nadrielmorning09:59
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TofeI'm getting nearer to my jolla phone :)10:01
Milo-physically or emotionally?10:01
nadrielYou should take this time and be in solitude so you will enjoy it even more.10:02
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Milo-or you could install the SDK and be like "what the heck is qml" ._·10:02
Tofephysically, at least10:02
TofeMilo-: qml is great !10:03
Milo-I'm so very confused by that.10:03
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Stskeepshttp://qmlbook.org/10:04
TofeThe approach is a bit new, but the learning curve is steep10:05
Milo-last time I did qt-development was when qml was still in experimental stage10:05
Milo-back when n900 was released.10:05
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Tofewell, the basics are still there10:06
nadrielWow, you must be like... Ancient in terms of modern technology.10:06
nadrielBut are you obsolete?10:06
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Milo-Stskeeps a book about qt5, but isn't it qt4.8 or 4.9 in the sailfishOS?10:07
Stskeepsno10:07
Stskeepsqt510:07
Stskeepswe changed in mid product10:07
Tofehopefully :)10:07
Milo-oh. makes sense.10:07
Milo-been scanning nemo repos and saw a lot's of qt5 references from several months ago10:08
Milo-but couldn't say for sure if it was for future or for current versions.10:08
Stskeepsyeah, we kinda decided it was a good bet at the time, despite delays caused10:09
Tofeqt5 really brings new horizons10:09
Milo-bleeding edge, in so many ways :)10:09
Stskeepsfor something that was experimental technology a year ago, we're quite well alogn, yeah10:10
Milo-Todo10:12
Milo-To be written10:12
Milo-hah :)10:12
Tofeboarding, bye!10:15
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nadrielAw man, for some reassons when I try to load email from the notifications windows they don't load.10:19
Nicd-nadriel: white screen?10:20
nadrielYarp10:20
Nicd-yeah it does that10:20
Nicd-usually if you try to open them too quickly10:20
nadrielWell, wiping left to right and then tapping on the email makes it reload.10:21
nadrielBasically it informs you then it loads the mail?10:22
Nicd-dunno what it does10:22
TheBootrooWHO THE FUCK DESTROYED THE SPREADSHEET ?10:24
atlazHas anyone figured out why gif-animations don't always seem to load? Browsing imgur on the shitter gets annoying when you gotta reload the page to view the animation10:24
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TheBootrooggabriel: why can't i find he spreadsheet anymore ? did the author delete it ?10:26
Milo-TheBootroo how's your shipment going?10:26
TheBootrooMilo-: no update since 27th nov :-(10:26
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TheBootrooyou  guys don't understand why spreadsheet was SOOO important : it was something we could refresh and actually see moving, not like our freaking frozen order page which didn't move yet...10:30
TheBootroonow back refreshing that bloody page, and whinning on IRC as there is nothing else i can do10:31
Nicd-what was the spreadsheet url?10:31
TheBootrooNicd-: dunno, i starred it in my Gdoc and now i can't see it anymore10:32
Nicd-who created it?10:32
TheBootroodunno10:32
Milo-it seemed a bit illegal if I'm honest.10:32
Milo-plus it's not very factual as jolla did have some shipping problems10:33
TheBootrooMilo-: whatever you can say, it WAS moving10:33
Milo-which caused series of phones not to be shipped, while phones ordered/paid later on got delivered.10:33
Milo-I got my phone before someone whose order number started with 1, and the last numbers were between 1 and 50.10:35
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nadrielMy order nmbr was 106 and I got it on this wednesday.10:36
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Milo-are you a "first one" orderer?10:36
nadrielYe10:36
nadriel"the first one"10:37
TheBootroomy order is #200002549  so i can die before i get it10:37
nadrielUh oh.. You in fin?10:37
TheBootroono10:37
TheBootroofrance10:37
nadrielI hope you can get yours before christmas.. Mail is getting slower during evetry christmas.10:38
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nadrielIt's kind of funny to get a greeting card sent in december in January10:38
TheBootroonadriel: frankly i don't believe in it anymore10:39
TheBootrootoo many not-shipped people before me10:39
nadrielBut hey10:39
nadrielThere's going to be second update soon10:39
hene-really?10:39
nadrielYou'll get better device in hands than I did. : )10:39
hene-when?10:39
nadrielI think they promised one in beginning of january. Don't trust me, I'm not a reliable source.10:40
Stskeepswe already shipped first before most people got their devices, so, Soon(TM)10:40
Milo-I walked into a DNA-store and bought my device from there10:40
hene-nadriel: okok :)10:40
nadrielStskeeps, high hopes for the OS.10:42
TheBootrooStskeeps: is someone working on order @jolla today ?10:42
StskeepsTheBootroo: i wouldn't know, sorry10:42
nadrielWorks more intuively than android, imo.10:42
TheBootrooanyway, as spreadsheet is dead, we can't see any update until our own order get processed10:42
TheBootrooIMHO, Jolla should care more about not disappointing fans, becaus they are pretty much all they have ATM, without fans, Jolla is going to fail10:44
TheBootrooand fans can't be happy with generic PR message on twitter, copy-an-pasted to each and everyone10:44
nadrielWell, I'd appreaciate the fast informs if there's problem with shipping etc.10:45
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* TheBootroo put all his money (don't have a lot) on his Jolla for Christmas and isn't going to have any other gift, and now really depressed about not having it in time.... only 10 days remaining to get it picked, shipping, shipped, and delivered....10:49
TheBootroo:-(10:49
Nicd-yes, we know, you've told us many times10:50
Stskeepswe're sad to announce that santa got a jolla and no longer cares about anything else than playing with it10:51
Stskeeps:P10:51
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TheBootrooi really can't understand why shipping ~4k device can take more than 3 weeks (yeah 3 weeks since start of orders)10:51
Nicd-they said they had problems with shipping10:52
TheBootrooStskeeps: grrr, no more in mood of doing/reading jokes10:52
nadrielStskeeps: : D10:52
nadrielSanta's a dirty old f*cker10:52
TheBootrooNicd-: on the small amout of phones that were already processed, let's say 200, now that issue is fixed, all should go faster, but it doesn't, at least doesn't seems so10:53
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AL13N_lizzyonly 200 phones processed? i don't believe that at all10:55
nadrielAt least 450. : )10:55
AL13N_lizzyimho several k's are already delivered10:55
AL13N_lizzythere's even 5 jolla's on ebay and one already sold10:56
Nicd-clock app has been downloaded 3600 times so I'd estimate at least 2000 jollas10:57
nadrielClock app needs function that calculates the sleeptime. : )10:58
Nicd-oh yeah, pizza online added their android app to jolla store \o/10:58
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Nicd-hope they'll make a native one too10:59
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KiranosTheBootroo: again relax, it wont get better no matter the x-amount of times you say you want your device before christmas, you have to come to terms that jolla isnt samsung/apple11:01
Nicd-also spare us from your whining11:01
nadrielDrink beer and be merry11:02
QuuNicd-: maybe not everyone have downloaded the clock.. :p11:03
Nicd-Quu: that would just make the amount of jollas in circulation higher11:04
Quuyes.11:04
Nicd-hehe, circulation :P11:04
Nicd-maybe not the best word11:04
Quui know couple people who havent installed anything yet11:04
AL13N_lizzyjolla on eBAY: Sold at 850£; $1050 (9h left); 315£ (1d left); 680£ (2d left); $570 (4d left); $585 (5d left)11:05
TheBootrooKiranos: i('ll) never give my money to Apple/Samsung as I don't trust them, but i used to trust Jolla, so i gave my money to them, that's the reason i care / whine11:05
QuuTheBootroo: they said  youll get it in december.11:06
Quuits december11:06
TheBootrooQuu: they also said many other things that weren't true, so i don't see why this december thing would be respected than the rest11:06
Kiranosok :) dont know what your trust issues are with the others but I have an ipad and a samsung tv, I got what I bought, no issues11:06
KiranosTheBootroo: its a beta phone manly targeted to developers and tech geeks. Its what you expect11:07
Kiranosor beta os that is11:07
TheBootrooKiranos: trust issue are not about the fact they can take your money happily and give you a device, but more about their intentions and philosophy11:07
Kiranoswell its buisness, make money sheddar :)11:07
Stskeepsregarding update2:11:08
TheBootrooKiranos: i"m a dev, i don't have any issue with beta os11:08
StskeepsStefano Mosconi ‏@zzste 3m11:08
Stskeeps@AnttiSaarnio we target another bugfix update before EOY. New features during Q1/14. // @vheikkol @JollaHQ11:08
Quuyay11:08
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Nicd-Stskeeps's first line (with "Stefano Mosconi") breaks my weechat :o11:09
nadrielStskeeps, kewl11:09
TheBootrooas i leave on saturday, i need the phone on friday at least, so if it takes 24/48h to deliver, it must absolutely be processed monday, tuesday or wednesday11:09
TheBootrooso if it isn't the case, expect to see me here, on IRC, whinning and raging more than you have ever seen in your life11:10
TheBootrooso @Jolla, you have 3 days, deal with it11:10
KiranosTheBootroo: be prepared that its not coming and dont get your hopes up, if it arrives take it as a surprise,11:10
Stskeepsi hope it comes during next week, too, personally11:10
Stskeepsand i'm at a higher number than TheBootroo11:10
Stskeeps:P11:10
nadrielI'm going to add fuel to the flame11:11
stephgTheBootroo there's nothing we can do about it, try to be patient, there's lots of us waiting also11:11
TheBootrooKiranos: i can't, it's my only xmas gift, how cool will be xmas party if everyone but me has its gift ?11:11
StskeepsTheBootroo: oh i tried that11:11
Milo-Stskeeps you haven't received your personal jolla phone yet? :P11:11
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StskeepsMilo-: no, i ordered too late11:11
nadrielIt's magical, you're missing a lot11:11
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Kiranoseveryone hopes that it comes as fast as possible, I dont think its one out there that says, we'll I hope it comes first in january, id hate to get it til christmas"11:11
Milo-ah. :)11:11
TheBootroowould be curious to know which priority order have been chosen for this week11:12
TheBootroois it the order number or some random stuff ?11:12
Milo-TheBootroo you could start doing what you are supposed to do though.11:12
Milo-furiously developing sailfishOS native applications while waiting for your device!11:12
TheBootrooi mean, have my order any chance to be processed in sequential ranking or not11:12
StskeepsTheBootroo: i'm fairly sure they're sequential11:13
nadrielBut hey, if you don't have your new phone on christmas you have more time for relatives and shit, you know being social. ; D11:13
TheBootrooMilo-: nope, i've been doing it, already one app in store, and two under the hood, but i won't produce anything more until i get my phone11:13
TheBootroonadriel: i don't like social stuff11:13
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nadrielDon't be all monday person on christmas.11:14
TheBootrooanyway, i don't see what i could do now : spreadsheet is in /dev/null, TMO thread is annoying as hell cause full of idiots dueling about semantics, and order page fuc***n frozen....11:16
stephgTheBootroo look at the revision history in the spreadsheet (unless the sheet itself was deleted)11:16
Nicd-TheBootroo: you could be quiet for a while11:17
HarhaanJohtajaTheBootroo: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqcXroZyLBjPdGJ4WmhOMlZBaVdEc2g1TmY3cXNLeWc&usp=sharing#gid=011:19
nadrielOh that's just a whole new fanboy level. : |11:21
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TheBootroostephg: deleted it was11:31
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TheBootrooNicd-: NO.11:44
TheBootrooHarhaanJohtaja: thx for restored version11:48
TheBootroothis (epic) spreadsheet has one therapeutic effect : makes us feel less alone in desperation11:48
nadrielhttp://www.acm.uiuc.edu/sigarch/projects/sensornode/11:49
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nadrielWebserver turned into Marvin. :)11:51
AL13N_lizzyTheBootroo: which apps are you working on? http://elinux.org/Jolla#Interesting_native_apps_possibly_in_the_works11:51
TheBootrooAL13N_work: CityBike -> PUBLISHED,  Feedly Client with offline mode -> WIP, StackExchange client -> WIP11:52
AL13N_lizzyok, i'll add11:53
AL13N_lizzyadded http://elinux.org/Jolla#Interesting_native_apps_possibly_in_the_works11:53
AL13N_lizzyTheBootroo: is it called CityBike'me or CityBike ?11:54
TheBootrooCityBike'me11:54
AL13N_lizzyok, then i got it right the first time :-)11:54
TheBootroothe two others are Feed'me  and Staq'me11:54
AL13N_lizzyoic11:54
AL13N_lizzyi'll change those names11:54
TheBootroosome recurrent naming scheme11:54
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TheBootroocybette: are you working today ?12:12
Nicd-probably not, it's sunday12:13
cybetteTheBootroo: i'm working on updating Jolla's chinese SoMe (it's been sadly neglected recently due to everything else going on) and some planning stuff for next week12:15
cybetteNicd-: what's sunday? :)12:15
TheBootroocybette: if you are working does it mean some guys are working at shipping too ?12:16
Nicd-cybette: hehehe12:16
TheBootroo(eg: updating website to match real shpping status ?)12:16
Nicd-cybette: it's a day when you get out of your office and see the sun. doesn't work this time of year though12:16
cybetteTheBootroo: honestly i don't know. at least friday they were working late into the night.12:18
cybetteNicd-: ah yes, sun. maybe i'll see it in a few months12:18
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Nicd-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjXVQbyiAWE -- MTV3 "rebooted" on the air last night :D12:25
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AcceNicd-, :D12:29
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macmaNthat is indeed funny12:30
nadrielNicd-, someone wanted to see from television what he was doing.12:30
Nicd-I saw it live, was a little WTF moment12:30
Accereminds me of the entertainment system on Finnair planes, it's also based on linux and after seating you can watch it boot12:30
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Nicd-of course the national papers had headlines "STRANGE CODE TOOK OVER MTV'S PROGRAMME"12:31
nadrielI bet the maintainer was watching the same show. ; )12:31
YanielNicd-: did they?12:31
AcceYaniel: yep, seems so12:32
stephgCentOS 5.512:33
stephgoooooold12:33
AcceI guess they use linux to show onscreen texts and stuff? or does someone know better12:33
Nicd-Yaniel: what?12:34
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Yanielwas it mentioned in any newspaper12:35
Acceby the way, does someone know how Jolla is supposed to handle multiple email accounts? I added an account today but only mails from first account are showing up12:35
Nicd-Yaniel: http://www.iltasanomat.fi/viihde/art-1288632419092.html12:35
Nicd-Acce: I have 4 accounts and they are working fine12:36
Yanieldat misinformation12:36
Nicd-yeah12:37
Nicd-I remember an article about people who had gotten MMS's from 197012:37
nadrielLol, käskyrivejä. : )12:38
Nicd-some manager from the operator said in an interview that she thinks they may have been testing MMS features back in 1970 and the messages had gotten stuck in the system12:38
Nicd-and only now got through12:38
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AcceNicd-: so that's how you do 30 years worth of testing!12:39
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Yanielnadriel: I'm pretty worried it the guy who said that was really one of the maintenance guys12:41
Yaniellike the article implies12:41
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nadrielYaniel: Well there must be a reason they're working for MTV and not google. : )12:48
Accewell either the maintenance guy was that "it's not working, let's reboot" type, or then he thought the readers wouldn't know anyways even if he explained it properly12:54
nadrielAcce, "we were in the processs of feeding the Linux servers, those things eat like crazy and if they get too hungry they start firing hieroglyphs all over the screen"12:56
nadrielThat would've been epic.12:57
Acce:D12:57
Yaniel<insert server farm joke>12:58
nadrielServer farmer http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/Farmer,_Nicaragua.jpg12:58
Acceheh.. maybe in the future we will grow biological computers on the fields12:59
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AcceThen the server farms would become proper terminology13:00
Yanielwill turning them off be considered murder then=13:00
Yaniel?13:00
nadrielYeah, and this will be the last one. Farmer of tomorrow http://www.adweek.com/files/imagecache/node-detail/news_article/ram-farmer_0.jpg13:00
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AcceDoes someone know how simultaneous key presses are best handled in QML?13:11
Acceif I want to use the auto repetition13:11
Yanielisn't there a keyRepeated signal or something?13:12
Accethe KeyEvent has property isAutoRepeat, do you mean that?13:13
Yanielyes13:13
Accethe problem is that if I press second key, the first key stops autorepeating13:13
Yanielah13:13
YanielI think that is how Qt key input works13:13
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AcceFor now I made some bools for each key and then set them and check them when timer is triggered13:14
Yanielworks13:14
Acceyeah, just wondering if there is some "proper" or better way to do it13:14
Yanielif you want multiple repeated keys... well I'm guessing something messy is going down13:15
Yanieland you might want to rethink your approach13:15
Yanielis it really repeats that you are interested in etc..13:15
Accehmm.. well, how would you implement moving an object with the arrow keys? rotate on left and right, and move forward with up key?13:20
AcceI guess the timer approach is good for me, because there might be some objects that need to move without user interaction13:20
Yanielumm yes you totally don't want to rely on keyrepeat events for that13:21
Yaniel1. there are only a handful of keys you are interested in13:21
Yaniel2. the keys are actually irrelevant :P13:21
Yanielso if you get a keyDown event and the key is one of your controls, set the corresponding control flag to true13:22
Yanieland when you receive a keyUp event for that key, clear that flag13:22
Yanielthen just check the flag in your logic13:22
Yanielthe control scheme is irrelevant to that13:23
Yanielrotate + forward might work depending on your app13:23
Yanielbut don't go polling keys all the time13:23
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AcceOk, thanks for the advice!13:25
nanderwill games made using pygame be allowed in store in the future?13:26
Yanielnot that this also allows you to configure your controls much easier13:26
Yanielnote*13:26
Yanielsince you can just change the key->control action mapping13:27
Yanieland store all mappings in one place13:27
nandersdl is annoyingly lowlevel13:27
Yanielnander: pygame is essentially a python wrapper for SDL?13:27
Yanielafaik13:27
nanderlol, qt5 has canvas ;)13:28
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Yanielbut yes I'd think so, once python is allowed in the first place etc13:28
Yanielnander: si did Qt413:28
Yanielso*13:28
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nanderCanvas is a lot more nice to use than sdl..13:29
nanderIf it is able to keep decent framerates13:29
nanderI'm gonna try to port some js I already did on html5 canvas to qml canvas13:30
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Yanieldunno, SDL is quite limited to its specific field13:31
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Yanielor at least used to be13:31
YanielI have yet to look at SDL213:31
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nanderSDL didn't even seem to be amazingly fast13:32
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nanderIt could be that it limits to native refresh rate though13:32
Yanielwhat do you expect from a sw blit13:32
Yanielwell now it has hw acceleration too13:32
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TurskiYaniel: at least python is already in repos13:35
Yanielgood13:36
nanderis it possible to use pure html5 in qt?13:37
YanielQWebkitView13:38
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Chaz6Not sure if this is of any interest to anyone http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2013/12/13/opera-launches-commercial-grade-chromiumblink-engine/13:40
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M4rtinKwell, after the recent LG phone-home fiasco, I've decided any multimedia setup will be self built & using FOSS software13:49
M4rtinKso good luck Opera with those set top boxes :)13:49
Yaniel$linuxdistro + mpd13:50
Yanieland mpv or something for videos13:51
M4rtinKBTW, regarding hardware for such setup, I'm thinking about cubox13:51
Stskeepshow would sailfish for TV look to you guys?13:52
M4rtinKshould have quite good performance, comes with a case & has IR (in/out) interface built in13:52
Chaz6Our ouya running xbmc works well13:52
Yanielfor tv? hmm13:52
Chaz6It has a tiny board that can do 1080p13:52
Yanielno touch interface there I guess13:52
Yanielmaybe if you have a wiimote or so13:53
M4rtinKhmm, using swipe gestures on a big touchscreen tv :)13:53
Chaz6Some tv's are now shipping with a kinect clone13:53
Chaz6for gestures13:53
Stskeepsperhaps think jolla phone + tv13:53
Yanielbut in general I think steam big picture mode is pretty good13:53
Yanieljolla phone + tv is a different thing :P13:53
Stskeepsie, phone as remote control13:53
Chaz6Really with miracast you can use your phone as the media centre :)13:53
YanielI imagine that would work somewhat like jolla phone + mpd13:53
Stskeepsand please don't suggest 'web browsing on the tv'13:54
Stskeeps:P13:54
Stskeepsworst usecase, ever13:54
Yanielplease, no13:54
YanielStskeeps: have you had a look at smpc in the app store?13:54
Stskeepsi didn't13:54
Yanielthat's about how I'd imagine using the phone as a remote13:54
Yanieljust with a better ui13:54
Yanielthe current one is quite crude13:55
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Stskeepsoh talk.maemo.org: http://host-d.oddcast.com/php/application_UI/doorId=1177/clientId=299/?mId=53328249.314:02
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Yanielglorious :D14:11
Yanieland kind of creepy14:11
ShadowJKWhat is it?14:12
Yanieljolla guys as christmas elves14:12
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phdeswerWell stezz, Tommi, Marc, cybette and w00t I believe14:20
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covoxok no sleep tonight14:26
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cybetteOMG14:35
Nicd-:OOO14:35
cybetteit is creepy :P14:35
Stskeepsthere's two of them14:36
Nicd-oh14:36
Stskeepshttp://host-d.oddcast.com/php/application_UI/doorId=1177/clientId=299/?mId=53331766.3 too14:36
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cybettehahahahaha14:37
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pdanekNokia is going to release Android phone :O .... We may actually see Sailfish Nokia phone too, who knows :O14:39
Nicd-I don't think they are going to14:40
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Turskithey maybe were going to...14:41
ggabrielthat was elop's strategy of "buy us or else..."14:42
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Turskii'm trying what scaling governor change to msm-dcvs from ondemand does for battery life...14:55
Turskiui seems to struggle a bit though...14:55
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disharmonicEvening14:56
ShadowJKI would imagine that "race to idle" still is the best approach14:58
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Turskimight be14:58
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TurskiShadowJK: umm... you mean performance governor?14:59
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ShadowJKnah15:00
ShadowJKwhat ondemand does it immediately goes to highest frequency, and then steps downwards15:01
ShadowJKIt takes time to switch frequencies, so if demand increases, it goes to max immediately, and if load goes away it steps down one step at a time15:02
ShadowJKCPU should spend most of its time at 0 MHz :)15:03
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disharmonicWhy are you discussing Android governors?15:05
* ShadowJK talks about a linux governor15:07
phdeswerShadowJK: that is not the ondemand governor. That one goes up in steps. You are thinking of interactive15:07
phdeswerHowever the default values for it are pretty bad.15:07
ShadowJKI thought conservative was the one that went up in steps15:09
phdeswerconservative steps up a lot slower and ramps down more quickly15:09
Turskii would have thought that msm-dcvs would be good since it was made by qualcomm(?)15:09
phdeswerondemand jumps higher but not always immediately to max15:09
StskeepsTurski: there's some stuff about cpu scaling in relation to input, too15:10
phdeswerAnyway the whole governor stuff is a lot more complex than it seems from the surface15:11
Turskiat least msm-dcvs is laggy :P15:11
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TurskiStskeeps: anything new on store auth problems?15:13
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StskeepsTurski: not yet, been a bit of a family day for me today15:15
TurskiStskeeps: ok15:15
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disharmonicmy bad :P15:19
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phaeronTurski: did you try removing and readding the jolla account ?15:29
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pdanekBigger and bigger smartphone displays...15:34
pdanekIs it because display technologies and resolutions get higher, or human hands are getting bigger and bigger each year?15:34
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pdanekI mean, why didn't we have 5" phones everywhere 2 years ago, but now?15:35
Chaz6Korean/japanese phones are still pretty small15:35
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Yanielpdanek: in america everything is bigger15:35
Yanieland others are influenced by them15:36
AcceChaz6: as far as I've seen, atleast in japan they're aggressively marketing the big screen smartphones and all my friends had one15:36
pdanekDo you think, that if you throw 5" smartphones at people 3 years ago, sales would be much smaller? Because it would be too radical change?15:37
pdanekBut now, people are getting used to it, by little inch every year?15:37
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Morpogseems so, but there will be an end in size15:38
SpeedEvilMorpog: Well - maybe.15:38
SpeedEvilMorpog: Or phones will get handgrips on the back.15:38
ggabrieli'd like to use my phone with 1 hand most of the time15:38
MorpogSpeedEvil, I cannot imagine anyone running around with a Nexus 7 sized smartphone15:38
SpeedEvilMorpog: And clothing with front tablet pockets will come in.15:38
ggabrieli guess i'll struggle a bit with the jolla15:38
ggabrielbut that remains to be seen15:38
ggabrielMorpog: yeah, end size 130" :)15:39
Yanielthe jolla is a bit too large IMO15:39
SpeedEvilMorpog: Imagination failure IMO.15:39
Turskiphaeron: yes15:39
SpeedEvilMorpog: If it was robust enough, it wouldn't be an issue for many that don't use their phones for calls much.15:39
pdanekBut why not instant big screen size before?15:40
pdanekWhy adding a little every year?15:40
ortylppdanek: My SG Note2 (5.5") is about the right size for a smartphone (SG Note 3 is even better => larger display, smaller device). On the other side a dumbphone with a week of battery life should be available in a size of a watch.  I have Nokia 2630 as a backup and I cannot find anything smaller on the market :(15:40
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ortylpMorpog: well... I do: it still fits in a pocket and "phone" functionality is really rarely used by me15:42
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ggabrieli think ortylp has a point... eventually phone functionality has to go away into something way smaller15:43
ggabrielsimilar to the htc concept of having a mini phone to go with the massive display15:43
ggabrielbut that wouldn't cover use cases such as walking around with the map open in the smartphone and the umbrella in the other hand15:43
pdanekor.. Google Glass like products15:43
nander_Remote application finished with exit code 137.15:43
Morpogortylp, I had my nexus 7 several times in my pocket, but it never was comfortable and never was long15:43
ggabrielpdanek: uhm... don't want a laser writing things on my eyeball, thanks ;-)15:44
ggabrielbut yeah, something along those lines that's not to intrusive physically perhaps15:44
Chaz6My company is trying to get a google glass trial but it's closed15:44
Chaz6It has serious applications where I work15:44
Chaz6A lot of them are safety oriented15:44
YanielI still want to see phones with builtin laser projectors15:44
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ortylpMorpog: it depends what you wear, and it does not have to be pocket in your trousers :D [5.5" still fits in my trousers]15:45
Yanielactually, laser projectors in general15:45
Chaz6e.g. not needing to hold a portable device so you have both hands for holding onto handrails etc15:45
pdanekggabriel: when I see people zombie-walking on the streets with their head pointed down to their smartphones, I wish sometimes that all of us have Google Glass-like product.15:45
Chaz6and getting information inside tight spaces15:45
Chaz6I look down at my phone a lot when walking around :(15:45
Chaz6We get in trouble for doing that at work15:45
Morpogortylp, well, I was refering to trousers, as it's the place where most man put their phone15:46
ggabrielnot sure walking around looking at somethign else (Phone, newspaper, whatever) is a big problem15:46
ggabrielit is if you do so in an unsafe place15:46
ggabrielsuch as crossing the road15:46
pdanekI believe that regardless how trustful Google company is, the Glass initiative is right way in terms of ergonomics.15:46
Chaz6ggabriel: I work in an office and they're keen on it15:46
Chaz6Trying to reduce the LTI (lost time injury) rate15:47
Chaz6augmented reality is definitely the future15:47
ggabrielto me, it remains to be seen how "safe" is a google glass-like thing15:47
MorpogI guess it won't be allowed to use while driving a car15:48
Chaz6It could have a car mode where it just gives you alerts of obstacles perhaps15:48
pdanekI don't think human body/head is made to be constantly looking down.15:48
pdanekIt can trigger some small headaches etc.... looking straight or a little under the horizon is correct.15:48
Chaz6and is otherwise silent15:48
pdanekThat';s why you have instructions how to setup your monitor in office etc.15:48
ggabrielChaz6: cars could draw things on the windshield, no need for glasses ;-)15:48
ggabrielpdanek: good point15:49
ggabrieli don't personally look at my smartphone all the time15:49
ggabrieljust for maps, glance at an address, text, things like that15:49
pdanekMany people do, most of the time.15:49
ggabrieli won't read a book while walking :)15:49
Chaz6ggabriel: but it's a lot easier to wear glass than upgrade your car15:49
ggabrielarguably, i cna see some, not everybody15:49
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ggabrielChaz6: uhm... you could modularise/standardise that easily?15:50
ggabrieli dunno15:50
ggabrieljust personally uncomfortable of how things are projected on your eyes15:50
pdanekI think 10 years from now, there will be dozens of Glass-like products on market, used by masses.15:50
Chaz6haha standardize across the auto industry.. good one :)15:50
Chaz6manufacturers cant even standardize their own models15:50
ortylpMorpog: most jackets can hold 6-7" device in the internal pocket, I prefer fleece and there you can fit 10" kindle :D in the internal pocket15:51
ggabrielChaz6: yeah, a lot of things are standardised, some gov req's and some others just practicity15:51
ggabrielpracticality, sorry15:51
pdanekggabriel: even LCD that you are looking at, is kind of projecting light to your eyes, just not so precise/close/direct15:51
ggabrielpdanek: i know15:51
pdanekthere is no laser-evil technology in it15:51
ggabrielbut laser not so similar to light15:51
Morpogortylp, sure but what do you do in summer?15:51
ggabrielalso, spent a lot of yeras lookint at crt's15:51
ggabrieland i wear glasses now15:51
Chaz6there is an israeli company called microvision that does laser huds15:51
Chaz6with military applications15:51
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pdanekbut I agree that current implementations of wearable tech is not perfect15:53
ortylpMorpog: short trousers with large pockets on the side of your leg, similar to trekking/military style15:53
pdanekjust saying that it's future15:53
ggabrielpdanek: maybe i'm misinformed, but that's what i read some time ago. laser isn't evil, but my point is that we don't know if/how it will affect human vision15:53
Tofeok, now I'm in the country to be15:53
Morpogortylp, so I start to buy my trouser for the needs of my phone? :D15:53
Chaz6It won't be long until we can swap our eyes with bionic ones15:53
Chaz6(flashbacks of g'kar in babylon 5)15:54
ggabrielChaz6: i'd rather a neural lace, if we go all sci fi here ;-)15:54
Accearen't they developing foldable screens to solve the pocket size problem15:54
pdanekggabriel: well you don't know how your brain will be affected 30 years from now, while living in city surrounded by 3g, lte, wifi, gsm...15:54
ggabrielAcce: yeap, that's a great idea actually15:54
Chaz6ggabriel: keep your brain at home and rely on external sensors for input :315:54
ggabrielpdanek: true, but i think beer affects it more15:54
pdanekggabriel: :D15:54
ortylpMorpog: in summer I have to have backpack anyway, getting outside without a bottle of water (south Germany) is not the best idea...15:54
Chaz6It'll make the tourism industry very exciting15:54
Morpogortylp, well, Ich habs bis jetzt immer überlebt hier in Baden-Württemberg :D15:55
ggabrielChaz6: for sure, hehe15:55
ggabrielreflecting about it, we've been using wearable tech since watches came along15:55
ggabrielbut you can't be walking around watching a film in a ~5" screen15:56
ggabrieli mean, sit down somewhere, relax, enjoy it15:56
ortylpMorpog: Ich rede über KA und PF, aber ich komme aus Danzig weit, weit von Norden :P15:56
pdanekggabriel: you can, imagine how our lifes get faster and faster every day, before people could not even imagine making a phone call, while eating and working along with it15:57
pdaneknext generation will think of it like we are old and don't understand15:58
pdaneknow I see people standing & squeezed in public transport and holding their phones up and watching movies or playing games... and it's definitely not comfortable for them15:59
ggabrielpdanek: agree, but call me old fashioned: i prefer watching my films in surround sound and at >100" :)15:59
pdaneksure, me too... just saying that the same like our parents don't use many tech we do -> we won't use much of tech that our children will do15:59
pdanekand we will try to make arguments, but it will be pointless for the new generation16:00
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Tofepdanek: "use IRC, my son !"16:00
pdanek:D16:00
ggabrielpdanek: uhm... my dad in particular likes technology, he just needs to be intorduced to it. my gf's parents are the same16:00
ggabrielit's tricky tho, as then they own you with every question16:00
ggabrielback to the big/small phone topic16:01
pdanekright16:01
ggabrieli'd love to have both options :)16:01
pdanekit may not happen16:01
pdanekI'd like to have both options: keyboard phones and keyboard-less..... not many choices now16:01
pdanekhard to buy high-end small display phone now16:01
ggabrielpdanek: nope, i want a keyboard other half for the jolla :)16:01
pdanek:P we all do :(16:02
pdanekI can't wait...16:02
Tofewhy didn't they put a DNA store at the airport ? don't they now people come to finland for Jolla ? ;)16:03
StskeepsTofe: i vote for a pop-up store in the starbucks there16:03
Tofeknow*16:03
Stskeeps:P16:03
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pdanekTofe: Duty Free Jolla!16:05
ggabrielhehe, nice idea ;)16:05
Tofe:)16:05
ggabriel"i went to finland" "yeah? what did you see?" "the airport"16:06
Tofenice airport, btw16:06
pdanekFinnair should start selling Duty Free Jolla during their long-distance flights.16:06
Chaz6the only part of holland i've seen is schipol :(16:06
Chaz6great idea16:06
ortylppay 400€ for flight to get 400€ Jolla :D16:06
Chaz6in some countries it's well worth it16:06
Chaz6they can sell the phones for 10x the price16:06
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pdanekI wonder what's manufacturing cost of each Jolla.16:08
pdanekI mean, development costs not included.16:08
Tofemust be quite high, given its not really mass-produced like samsung16:09
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pdanekAnd do we know which Chinese company is manufacturing for Jolla?16:10
pdanekI don't think they have their own factory.16:10
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anonfriese_flying to finland just to see an airport? man, you sure haven't been to tampere then ;)16:10
anonfriese_almost the smallest airport i've ever seen16:11
pdanekSmall = better!16:11
Tofeanonfriese_: I've done turku, it's not big either :)16:11
anonfriese_ok, at least it's not that easy to loose your luggage, and the bus to city centre is also pretty fast and cheap16:12
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Tofeand walking on the snow to get to the plane's stairs is fun16:13
anonfriese_and ortylp: if i had gotten free from work on launch day, i'd flown over to finland just to buy my jolla, yes :)16:13
anonfriese_yeah, it's kinda fun, the un-fun thing is that ryanair delayed my flight back home for 2 hours because of the snow...16:14
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Tofewell, there's always plenty of coffee to help the waiting16:15
ortylpanonfriese_: it would be very tempting for me, but I was not invited, I have preordered a few hours too late...16:15
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anonfriese_i've got my invite to helsinki and it really sucks, that i still have to wait instead of already having it in my hands...16:16
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anonfriese_at least sailfish on n9 is running pretty well, so i guess i can still wait a few weeks16:16
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pdanekNokia N9 camera is better than Jolla's, already confirmed.16:17
ggabrielpdanek: thanks, unsurprising though ;)16:17
anonfriese_pdanek: i heard, but as long as it's not as bad as my old palm's or my htc dream, im happy ;)16:17
pdanekIt's 2-years old phone, I hoped it may be at least the same quality.16:18
ortylpanonfriese_: can you point to installation instructions and image?  Is there a way to make full backup of N9 Harmattan16:18
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ggabriellens in the n9 are vrey special tho16:18
anonfriese_ortylp: look at jolla users, they have a guide16:18
anonfriese_you can use ubiboot -> meego and sailfish dual-boot16:18
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pdanekjolla users is slowly becoming new maemo.org/talk.maemo.org16:18
pdanektheir forums are more and more active16:19
ortylppdanek: I thought we all stay at maemo.org...16:19
pdanekortylp: I do16:19
pdanek:D16:19
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ggabrieli lurked a bit in jollausers.com16:19
ggabrielthey miss the "active threads" bit16:20
ggabrieland i think there's better content in tmo16:20
anonfriese_i'm reading both anyways ;)16:20
pdanekok, very slowly becoming16:20
pdanek:D16:20
Tofeas long as it's not becoming like xda, it's ok16:22
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pdanekTofe: I hate xda.16:25
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ShadowJKYaniel; iirc around 2008-2009, projector phones were at peak popularity16:32
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ggabrielShadowJK: i vote for espresso making phones16:34
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atlazHmhm. I guess i'll make a go for deving an app for Jolla during the x-mas break. I have always wanted to make a triplog software, but the one for android is just too good, so i didn't really have the motivation to start building one myself16:38
Chaz6I wish google latitude was still active16:39
atlazI need my app to distinguish personal car-rides with business related drives16:40
atlazSo that mr. Tax-guy knows how much to pay me back in the end of the year16:40
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Chaz6Great idea16:41
atlazIt needs to track start location, end location, who was driving and how many kilometers the trip was. Bonus features are: it somehow finds the street address from the GPS-coordinates + The app activates itself automatically when connected to ín-car bluetooth + the app remembers that if i have driven from place A to place B before, and that trip was personal, it should suggest it as an personal trip again16:42
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atlazAnd ofcourse some kind of reporting so i can prove to Mr. Tax-guy that the kilometers i submit are actually true :)16:45
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SpeedEvilatlaz: Openstreetmap may be useful.16:55
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SpeedEvilI don't know what if any APIs are available for the Here data16:55
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pdanekWhat are best maps for Europe now?17:10
pdanekIs it Google Maps or Here?17:10
Chaz6I think here maps are a bit better than google17:11
Quuhere might be good when/if they get navigation17:11
pdanekBut Google has lot of places/stores marked on the map.17:11
Bysmyyrgoogle have better information, public transport times etc17:11
pdanekyes17:11
Yanielhere is getting there as well17:12
Chaz6I wish google would by OS AL2/AddressBase so it gives you accurate locations for addresses17:12
Chaz6*would buy17:12
Chaz6Doesn't matter to me because i can get it through work17:12
Chaz6But it would be convenient17:12
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FryeHmm, is anyone else experiencing issues with their calendar on Jolla?17:14
FryeI try to create event for tuesday and when I Accept/Create it crashes the whole application17:14
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AL13N_lizzyjolla on eBAY: Sold at 850£; $1175 (3h left); 315£ (21h left); 680£ (2d left); $570 (3d left); $585 (4d left)17:27
Frye=)17:28
disharmonicThe 3rd one is fair17:28
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AL13N_lizzywe'll see how long it'll say fair after the 3h one has gone17:28
Fryeaye17:28
AL13N_lizzy*stay fair after 3 hours17:29
Frye'Looks... interesting17:29
disharmonicAuctions then17:29
AL13N_lizzy850£ > 1000£ > 1350$17:29
AL13N_lizzyso, the first one was quite expensive17:29
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AL13N_lizzyi mean 1000€17:29
AL13N_lizzyoops17:29
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Quu.17:30
Quudollahs17:30
AL13N_lizzystill, the 315£ one only has a jolla on it, no extra, no box, no nothing17:31
AL13N_lizzythe expensive dollar one is unsealed17:31
AL13N_lizzythe 585$ one looks unsealed too, but unsure17:31
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AL13N_lizzyanyway, so it may not really be that fair after all17:32
AL13N_lizzyalso, the 680£ one has a red poppy TOH (the first one)17:32
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FryeOk, ran the calendar from command line and there definitely is something fishy. Seems like the db is corrupt.18:07
FryeNeed to look into it more when kids are in bed.18:07
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nanderWill pygame be supported officially?19:51
nanderIt works quite nicely19:51
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ZogG_laptopfaenil: at the end frined postponed his trip19:55
ZogG_laptopso i'll get it later :019:55
faenilZogG_laptop, oh no...19:55
ZogG_laptophe'll get device but i'll get it probably afte januar :(19:56
AL13N_lizzyjolla on eBAY: Sold at 850£; $1175 (30min left); 315£ (21h left); 680£ (2d left); 550£ (3d left); $570 (3d left); $585 (4d left)19:57
tbr<obama>notbad</obama>19:58
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Turskimuch less in huuto.net :) http://www.huuto.net/hakutulos?words=jolla&search-button=Hae19:59
ZogG_laptopfaenil: what about help you needed?20:01
pdanek1Does anyone want my N900 with only broken display backlight for free? Accessories included.20:01
pdanek1wtf is huuto.net :D20:01
ZogG_laptoppdanek1: how much?20:01
pdanek1ZogG_laptop: what how much? nothing... you just have to cover shipping fees20:02
ZogG_laptoppdanek1: i want20:02
Milo-pdanek1 finnish version of ebay.20:02
ZogG_laptoppdanek1: i have mine with usb broken20:02
ZogG_laptopi have display20:03
faenilZogG_laptop, still thinking if it's worth creating a bugtracker since jolla is already working on something to enhance communication with users20:03
ZogG_laptopcan combine to have one :)20:03
pdanek1ZogG_laptop: what's your address?20:03
ZogG_laptoppdanek1: Israel20:03
pdanek1ZogG_laptop: that's not gonna be so cheap, shipping from Poland or Slovakia20:03
pdanek1ZogG_laptop: let me check the shipping fees tomorrow20:03
ZogG_laptoppdanek1: whe you'll get your jolla ask them how much20:04
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Milo-my weekend of jolla development didn't go quite as I planned. QML and the fact that I would have needed a reboot, in order to connect my phone to my machine kind of put me off..20:04
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ZogG_laptoppdanek1: thanks :P i would pay if it's not that many, as well i have address in Lux so my frined can bring it with my jolla, so try to find out how uch for Lux as well :P20:05
ZogG_laptoppdanek1: have you seen last south park?20:05
pdanek1ZogG_laptop: yep20:05
Milo-kanyee west's girlfriend is a hobbit.20:06
pdanek1ZogG_laptop: I think Luxemburg my be cheaper, I can actually send it next week, will see20:06
ZogG_laptoppdanek1: so i feel it's funny when some people try to shut up those who complain about jolla shippping problems20:06
ZogG_laptopit's like they telling "i'll send you to jelly school" :P20:07
pdanek1lol20:07
ZogG_laptopare you hater?20:07
pdanek1of course20:07
pdanek1I hate you all guys.20:07
Milo-jellyschool.20:07
ZogG_laptop:P20:08
Milo-there is just one thing I'm missing from my jolla. mahjong.20:08
Milo-well.. and obviously battery life20:08
pdanek1mahjong on N900 was amazing with stylus20:08
Milo-yeah. and N9 had fun new levels as well20:09
pdanek1but no stylus :P20:09
Milo-nope, but still fun hobby to beat my old records over and over again20:09
Milo-faster... harder... mahjong!20:09
ZogG_laptopyeap20:10
ZogG_laptopgreeat game20:10
ZogG_laptopwhy battery20:10
ZogG_laptopit was funny how jolla officialyy told 500 hours standby20:10
ZogG_laptopand everyone was "whooooooo" like cat in "puss in boots" movie20:10
Milo-I probably could get 50 hours with power turned on, while connected to mobile network (no 3g data, or wlan), with my phone sitting on the desk untouched and uncalled.20:11
ZogG_laptophttp://brynabutler.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/oooh-cat.jpg20:12
faenilMilo-, than that means there is some software draining your battery20:12
Milo-faenil yeah.. either the operating system's core processes, or Jolla's settings client.20:13
faenilMilo-, or the android layer, or one of the core apps, or one of the ones you installed20:13
Milo-nothing visible is running.20:14
nanderIt works quite nicely20:14
faenilthat doesn't mean it's not running :) otherwise the phone would be switched off20:14
ZogG_laptopor ..... 4220:14
nanderoops, sorry20:14
Milo-faenil I know.20:14
Milo-nothing launched by me is running.20:15
faenilMilo-, I understand, but that doesn't mean much20:15
Milo-indeed20:15
Milo-well, load avg is alarmingly high after a long period of idling (1-2 hours).20:17
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Milo-15 minute load avg is at 0.4620:18
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nadrielyou can check from the terminal20:28
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nadrielpstree and top are your friends20:31
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AntiHawkHello, I have a question: Any idea what is best way to make complete system backup from Jolla?20:39
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AntiHawkI have fought 2 to 3 hours and finally I got working set of everything that I need, it would be nice to have a snapshot or something to revert to when things go south20:41
QuuAntiHawk: probably nothing yet20:41
JonniAntiHawk: backup from settings menu. Or rsync-backup is pretty nice tool also, as it supports incremental backups.20:41
AntiHawkhmm20:43
AntiHawkI was thing about rsync also but I haven't though about specifics yet20:43
JonniAntiHawk: or btrfs snapshots, you can make a snapshot of current filesystem state and restore to it later20:43
Jonni(thats how restore factory settings is doing it, it restores you back to btrfs factory snapshot)20:44
AntiHawkokey it's filesystem feature then sounds good20:44
AntiHawkwhat to take a look20:44
AntiHawk*have to20:44
Jonnigoogle "btrfs snapshot" :)20:45
Jonnibtrfs stuff is pretty compilicated, for easier solution you might want to google rsync-backup20:46
AntiHawkI don't mind I just spend whole day with broken XenServer 6.1 environment and citrix support pages :D time to learn more :D20:47
Jonnihttps://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Incremental_Backup might be also worth reading.20:47
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AntiHawkyeah thanks :)20:50
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AntiHawkI decided to go with rsync first as first backup because it's safer...21:10
MSameerAntiHawk: you can setup a git remote server and install rsync and push your backups to a remote server21:12
MSameerAntiHawk: deztructor can help you21:12
AntiHawkmy linux box is currently down but yea thats very good idea :D21:13
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AntiHawkthis makes me smile mkfs.btrfs /dev/mmcblk1p1 results first line21:18
Bysmyyris this true also in sailfish, any ideas: http://everythingn9.com/terminal-developer-mode-off/ tldr. dev mode uses battery21:18
AntiHawkWARNING! - Btrfs v0.20-rc1 IS EXPERIMENTAL21:18
ggabrielAntiHawk: highly experimental according to the kernel config :)21:19
AntiHawkdamn :D21:19
ggabrielmany ppl use it tho21:20
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faenilit's been "experimental" for like 2 years now, fwiw :)21:23
stephgit'll be experimental for a while longer too faenil ;)21:25
Nicd-hey, phone users, can you check if this works on your phone? https://bitbucket.org/Nicd/sailtime/downloads21:27
ln-malware?21:28
Nicd-:(21:28
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Nicd-it's my uptime app21:28
AntiHawkdamn no wget as stock21:29
ln-there should be curl, i think21:30
AntiHawkand right you are21:30
teveNicd-: works fine.21:30
Nicd-yay21:31
Nicd-my spec and yaml files have differing version information, wonder if that's bad21:31
Nicd-guess I'll just push to harbour and see what qa says21:31
ccha4about yandex store I can register from the phone because can't see the captcha... how can I register ?21:31
Stskeepsccha4: are you on finnish language?21:31
ccha4nope21:31
ccha4french21:31
Stskeepswhich then?21:31
Stskeepsokay, try to switch to english, then try, you can switch back to french afterwards21:32
ccha4ok21:32
FireFlyFor the notificationy things that pop up near the top of the screen sometime, is it possible to get more detailed messages? I get one saying "Problem with connection" when I try to use mobile data transfer over 3G21:34
FireFlypops up*21:34
FireFly(this is after selecting "mobile data" when the browser asks me for "select Internet connection")21:35
pdanek1Can I survive with native apps only on Jolla?21:35
pdanek1Like, is there IM messenger?21:35
Nicd-pdanek1: there's IM for google, facebook and xmpp21:36
pdanek1Nicd-: :O, much less than N90021:37
ln-how do i install the rpm? just "rpm -i", or something sudo-like?21:37
Nicd-ln-: pkcon install-local file.rpm21:38
ln-Nicd-: ok, well, the app installed and started, but it just says "Refreshing..."21:41
AntiHawkNicd-: your app works well, my load was 4.8 (rsync running..)21:41
Nicd-ln-: hmm, try running it via the console and see if there's any output21:42
Nicd-AntiHawk: hehe, actually if you get over 9.99 load, the texts won't align properly21:42
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AntiHawkokey, maybe I don't try it then :D21:43
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ln-Nicd-: quite a bit of output, let's see if i can copy-paste it21:44
Nicd-ln-: pipe it to a file and email it to me21:44
Nicd-if you can21:44
AntiHawkI did rpm -i while in devel-su21:44
Nicd-I used pkcon install-local and it seems to run ok21:45
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ln-Nicd-: http://fpaste.org/62063/21:50
Nicd-thanks ln-21:51
ln-no problem21:51
ccha4Stskeeps: yes thnak you it works21:51
Nicd-ln-: can you also get the output of 'uptime'?21:52
Nicd-it seems my regex didn't match21:52
Stskeepsccha4: good21:52
ccha4why yandex register doesn't with other languague ?21:52
ln-Nicd-: " 23:52:42 up 1 day, 11:43,  0 users,  load average: 0.87, 0.59, 0.47"  (re-typed, not copy-pasted)21:53
Nicd-ln-: can you pipe it to a file to make sure there are no typing errors please?21:54
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Quu2 days 3hours :p21:54
Quuhmm21:54
ln-" 23:55:06 up 1 day, 11:45,  0 users,  load average: 0.60, 0.57, 0.48" (copy-pasted from output file)21:56
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Nicd-thanks ln-21:57
Nicd-I'll upload a new version21:57
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MSameerpdanek1: depends on your usage you might or might not survive "now"21:59
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Nicd-ln-: I'll try again tomorrow22:04
ln-ok22:04
Nicd-for some reason bitbucket is logging me out every time I go to the downloads page22:04
Nicd-... or might as well try clearing cookies now22:05
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Nicd-yeah, not even changing browsers works22:08
Nicd-so I'll try again tomorrow22:08
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Venemohey guys22:16
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Accehello, Venemo22:22
Venemohi22:22
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Venemoit seems that I suck at discrete time convolution22:22
AL13N_lizzyjolla on eBAY: Sold at 850£(1008€) and at $1175(855€); 315£(373€ (?)) (16h left); 680£(806€) (2d left); 550£ (0 bids, 2.5d left); $570 (0 bids, 3d left); $585 (4d left)22:23
AL13N_lizzyin 16h, a jolla will be sold with loss???22:23
AL13N_lizzyhow odd22:23
Venemopeople're probably gonna bid on it more during those 16 hours22:23
Accehmm22:23
SpeedEvilIt's a seller with 1 feedback.22:24
AL13N_lizzymaybe, it's not moving for the last 2days though22:24
AL13N_lizzyic22:24
SpeedEvilI personally never bid on anything on ebay till the last 7 seconds.22:24
AL13N_lizzythere is no red poppy TOH though22:24
Accecan you cancel the auction in ebay if you don't like the final price?22:25
SpeedEvilAcce: No.22:25
SpeedEvilAcce: In principle, anyway.22:25
AL13N_lizzythough you can bid for your own device, right?22:25
AcceSpeedEvil: that goes for both sides?22:25
Acceseller and buyer?22:25
SpeedEvilAcce: Again, in principle.22:25
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Acceokay, good22:25
SpeedEvilWhat actually happens if the seller doesn't ship and doesn't take payment is their seller account gets cancelled.22:26
SpeedEvilWhich for someone who has never sold before is not a big issue.22:26
AcceI see22:26
AL13N_lizzyhence the 1 feedback thing22:26
Acceso the guy might be someone who just thought he'd sell for profit22:26
SpeedEvilNever, ever, ever pay by other means than paypal as a buyer.22:26
Accebecause others got high bids?22:27
AL13N_lizzySpeedEvil: why?22:27
AL13N_lizzyi never used ebay before, so i donno22:27
Accethey can do something about it if you don't get the goods if you use paypal?22:27
SpeedEvilBecause in general, paypal has strong 'buyer protection' policies that exceed what is otherwise available.22:27
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ln-indeed, http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57352627-93/paypal-dispute-ends-in-destruction-of-violin/22:30
SpeedEvilPaypal is great as a payment method for buyers.22:31
SpeedEvilFor sellers - it has real issues.22:31
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Accewow22:34
Acceso what, they demand the buyer to send a picture of the "fake" item destroyed before he gets his money back?22:35
Accebut quite bad terms for the seller22:35
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SpeedEvilIn general, if you're in that situation as a buyer, that will not happen if you promplty refund the buyer.22:40
SpeedEvilAnd pay for return shipping.22:40
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SpeedEvilThat only happens after the second stage of the dispute process.22:40
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npmsounds like people need bitcoin22:51
npmhttp://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/chargeback22:51
SpeedEvilBitcoin doesn't help.22:51
SpeedEvilIt moves the liability to the seller.22:52
SpeedEvil^buyer22:52
SpeedEvilThe only way to 'fix' ebay is to have every item inspected by someone that can determine every possible fault a buyer may care about.22:52
SpeedEvilOtherwise you can't determine between 'he sent me a brick' and 'I sent him a laptop, he sent me a brick back when he returned it'22:53
npmwhy would that be a part of the protocol known as currency?22:53
SpeedEvilI was assuming you were addressing the above discussion.22:54
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npmi thought i was22:57
ottuloI don't think the currency has a great impact on the problem22:58
ottuloother than the fact that it's easier to transfer bitcoins directly between seller and buyer, unlike traditional currency that requires a third party, be it bank or the auction site22:59
npmit's just that credit card co's have moved the balance so far to once side that we come to accept a world of ease for the buyer and that everybody will bailout the fraud that such a system causes.23:00
npmkind of like... the rest of the banking system23:00
ottulothere is a concept that would fix a lot of the issues above, and much more23:01
ottulolet's see if I can find it23:01
SpeedEvilEscrow. And it adds considerable cost.23:01
npmwhy should "social" things be part of the currency... that's part of the market that gives the currency it's value23:01
SpeedEvilOr some third party that verifies the trnsction if not traditional escro23:01
ottuloSpeedEvil: escrow doesn't necessarily add costs, and it's not what I'm after23:01
ottulowhat I'm referring to is a concept of a system where everyone's details are available in an open database23:02
ottulothis database can be used to report misbehaviour as well as to give positive feedback23:02
npmthe concept is "trust"23:02
ottuloif you misbehave, it will be public, and people are less likely to trust you23:03
npmin both a social and cryptographic sense23:03
ottulonpm: indeed, what I'm talking about here is a more concrete way to implement that so that you can decide if someone new to you is trustworthy23:03
SpeedEvilottulo: Great - but it relies on unforgeable identities. And people being unable to create new identities. Which has clear and obvious problems.23:04
npme.g. http://bitcoin-otc.com/23:04
SpeedEvilWeb of trust.23:04
ottuloSpeedEvil: one point of the system was that anyone could suggest to link separate accounts if they know them to belong to the same person23:04
ottuloso while you could have separate accounts, it would be possible to be found out23:04
ottuloby being completely open it would discourage misbehaviour, as you'd get in trouble whether someone sues you or not23:05
ottuloso it sort of might eliminate the need for administration altogether (the whole legal system)23:06
npmof course that is what ebay is supposed to provide in the first place...23:06
ottuloit's really explained better in slideshow that is somewhere in the depths of the internet, but as I don't remember the name it's not easy to find..23:07
AL13N_lizzytrust and accountability also deny privacy23:08
AL13N_lizzybig brother, or (how to get off "The Grid")23:08
AL13N_lizzythough, if you buy something face-to-face, money gets transferred while the object is transferred23:09
AL13N_lizzyif you go VIA something, someone or something will need to be trustworthy and take the risk23:10
AL13N_lizzyto eliminate these kinds of problems, one would have to A) buyer and seller prove authenticity and availability B) trusted party holds both "objects" (money + object) at the same time, while live feeds confirm authenticity for both buyer and seller wrt middle man C) same thing but in reverse23:13
AL13N_lizzyin case of any doubt, the trusted middle man has to be the judge or provide enough witnesses to prove all this in courts23:14
AL13N_lizzyi guess online can be some sort of providence for that, but ... sheesh23:15
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ottulohttp://slid.es/mmalmi/identifi23:21
ottuloAL13N_lizzy: ^that's what I was after23:21
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SpeedEvilottulo: So - an open-source compulsory facebook.23:22
SpeedEvilGreat - what an awesome ide. I can't see anything whatsoever that can possibly be a concern with this.23:23
ottuloSpeedEvil: without the "one ring to rule them all"23:23
ottuloas it's p2p23:23
SpeedEvilottulo: That doesn't make it inherently better.23:23
SpeedEvilFacebook without facebook as corporate owner is not better from many perspectives.23:24
ottulono, but it does diminish the risk of one party having considerable power over single users23:24
ottuloI'm not saying it's the ultimate solution to all problems23:24
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ln-btw, the browser can be used to download an rpm, but can such downloads be installed through the gui?23:44
ottuloln-: I usually tap the notification on top of the screen, it takes me to Transfers23:45
ottulothen I tap on the file there and it installs23:45
ln-hmm, i tapped an rpm file in transfers and nothing happened.23:45
ottuloit doesn't show much on the ui even if it installs, just a similar notification on top once it's done23:47
ottulothough it hasn't taken more than a second or two for any app I've installed so far23:47
ln-well, gotta try again some other day with some other rpm23:47
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ottulo-jyay23:48
ottulo-jnow I can irc on the go as well!23:49
SpeedEvil:)23:49
* SpeedEvil wonders if anyones trying to port quassel.23:49
SpeedEvil(Though quasseldroid is OK)23:49
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Turskiln-: at least there seems to be opener in mimeinfo.cache for rpm23:53
Turskiapplication/x-rpm=store-client-install.desktop;23:53
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