#jollamobile log for Thursday, 2014-01-02

eyeaIs the a java vn port for jolla?00:01
eyeathere00:02
Venemospider-mario: wow00:03
suyeyea: what do you mean?00:03
Venemoeyea: what do you mean by "java vn port"00:03
eyeajava.virtual machine00:04
eyealike.fir.the N90900:04
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eyeaN90000:04
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VenemoI don't think so00:08
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Venemobut am not sure00:08
specialthere is no java in mer or nemo.00:11
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ln-oh no, wasn't java supposed to work on every platform00:14
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zuttoit sure can00:16
zuttobut so can many other languages00:16
specialso can Qt :>00:16
zuttoso can limbo00:17
sharpneliOnly if you pay a massive bag of money for Oracle00:17
zuttosharpneli: yep00:17
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sharpneliOr use OpenJDK and get sued by Oracle. :P00:17
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Elleozorael: okay, cool00:52
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TopisetGood morning and Happy New Year. Anyone here who could help with some Jolla issues at this early time?02:48
ottulodepends on the issue02:49
ottulobetter just straight out ask, so anyone who knows can see it when they come around02:50
ottuloor you could just post to together.jolla.com if it's not asked already02:50
TopisetI was actually debugging with Stskeeps, but he is probably not here at this time.02:51
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TopisetI have a question regarding the contact list, maybe someone has had it before:02:51
TopisetIf I chose a letter, I see two sets. One with a lighter font, the other more dimmed. Both are sorted alphabetically, but not mixing.02:52
Topisetfor example:02:52
Topiset(dimmed)02:52
TopisetJason02:52
TopisetJesus02:52
TopisetJohn02:52
TopisetJUan02:52
Topiset(not dimmed)02:53
TopisetJavier02:53
TopisetJesse02:53
TopisetJill02:53
TopisetJulia02:53
TopisetI would like that they are all in alphabetical order, and possible in the same tone.02:53
TopisetHas anyone faced the same+02:53
Topiset+02:53
Topiset?02:53
ottuloI do have the same situation02:55
ottulonever bothered to look more into it...02:55
Topisetok. You might not care, but I find it annoying sometimes. It makes it slower to find contacts if there are a lot :)02:56
ottuloaccording to my very fast and non-comprehensive search it seems dimmed = family name, bright = first name02:56
ottuloso if you have not set a first name for a contact it will only appear dimmed02:56
Topisetok, that seems to hold. I will need then to update the contacts, since they are all imported from VCF files.02:58
TopisetThank you, at least it shows a solution.02:58
ottuloyeah, I have them pretty randomly set as well02:59
pdanek1When I open Yandex store now, says server unavailable.02:59
ottulosome of them I've had ever since my first phone, so no first/last name option was available :P02:59
pdanek1Is it problem on my side or general?02:59
ottuloplus it has pulled contacts from social media, which have not merged with existing contacts all the time02:59
ottulopdanek1: seems to work for me03:00
pdanek1hmm03:00
ottuloa-ha!03:01
ottulojust now looked into it, and there is an option to link contacts03:01
ottulobest of all, it detects similar names so I don't have to search :)03:01
ottulothanks, Jolla, for thinking about this too!03:02
Topisetottulo: thanks. I keep the contacts currently in Nokia Suite, and I have the same problem. Some are only last names, some only given names.03:02
Topisetso I will have to update them there and in the phone. maybe googling there is a nice script that does that :)03:03
ottulo:P03:05
ottulogood luck!03:05
ShadowJKwhat the what, system update?03:05
Topisetseems to be easy, it is just a ";" in a different position in the VCF.03:06
ShadowJKoh it's offering to update 1.0.2.5 to 1.0.2.5 a third time03:06
TopisetShadowJK: At least you can get to 1.0.2.5, I am stuck with 1.0.0.5 :D03:08
ShadowJKheh, how come?03:09
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pdanek1hmm the flashlight app is actually blinking03:17
pdanek1not continuous light03:17
SpeedEvilyeah03:17
SpeedEvilIt's not a bug in the app - it's working round lack of an actual flashlight feature03:18
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TopisetShadowJK: I cannot update. I will get a "problem with store". Stskeeps was helping me debug it, but we had to welcome the new year and now I have to see if I can get this solved today.03:33
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pdanek1http://youtu.be/b0w36GAyZIA03:56
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boilerkimHello05:17
boilerkimHows the Jolla?05:19
SpeedEvilI like it.05:20
boilerkimI really want it to comee to the US!05:20
boilerkimWhat is your favorite thing about the Jolla?05:22
ottulomy personal favorite: I have one!05:24
SpeedEvilpykcon install gcc05:25
boilerkimHaha!! I was thinking about getting one but it only works with 2g in the US, so I guess I have to wait. Not sure if it will ever come here :(05:26
boilerkimwhat do you compile speed?05:26
SpeedEvilI was just amused to install it - nothing much as yet05:28
boilerkimSo you can basically do the same in the terminal that we can in a Linux desktop?05:30
SpeedEvilTo a very much larger degree than android, yes.05:30
* SpeedEvil is mostly asleep though (5AM)05:30
SpeedEvilNight all05:30
boilerkimnight05:30
Nicd-well, it's a Linux system05:31
SpeedEvilSo is android (by some definitions)05:31
mudyci just think it's awesome to have state-of-the-art linux box in your hand05:32
Nicd-SpeedEvil: well, that is up for debate :P05:35
SpeedEvilAnd yes - I've referred to Android in the past as 'Boot to java' - with good readon05:36
SpeedEvilson05:36
boilerkimwhat do you want to see in the future for jolla05:44
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Nicd-full caldav support :P05:47
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suosaask1mudyc: hardware wise it is not state-of-the-art :)06:20
PeperJohnnyHey Guys. Does anyone else have issues with sms getting? I wanted to get some TAN sms and they didn't arrive. Put the sim in my N900 and worked :/06:22
specialTAN?06:23
PeperJohnnySome identification number that you get by sms if you want to do some transactions06:23
specialwhat phone carrier, out of curiosity?06:24
PeperJohnnye-plus in Germany06:25
specialwe don't have any known problems with receiving non-MMS messages06:25
Nicd-I haven't had SMS trouble either06:25
PeperJohnny:/ ok06:25
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edgarszzzzz07:00
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Kiranosanyone know the waiting time if you order a phone today?07:02
Kiranosapprox time07:02
Nicd-I think it's 3-4 weeks approx07:02
Nicd-yep, says that on http://shop.jolla.com/07:03
KiranosNicd-: thanks07:03
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boilerkimanyone know if this phone will ever be released in the US?07:19
boilerkimor at least a compatable 3g/4g version for the us07:20
specialnobody knows.07:20
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Quuboilerkim: they said going for asia first07:21
boilerkimahh, thanks Quu07:22
boilerkimseems like it will be a long wait then!07:22
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edgarsboilerkim: when it will come to US it will be really out of the time/era :D07:24
Stskeepsback to the future07:25
Stskeepshoverboard like07:25
boilerkimIt will be so old, I know07:25
boilerkimbut Sailfish seems like its already in the future! and better than android/ios07:25
mudycsuosaask1: i think the hw is good enough for its use07:29
suosaask1good enough, but not state-of-the-art.07:29
boilerkimwhat limits have you seen based from the hw07:30
suosaask1By the way, are the fonts already fixed for the "start screen"? A coworker has a Jolla and pretty much the only complain I had when I saw it was that horrible font that looked like the device would have needed twice the resolution for the fonts to be readable...07:31
Stskeepssuosaask1: 1.0.2.5 fixes a lot at least07:31
Stskeepsdistance field options werent set right07:32
suosaask1boilerkim: no limits, but not state-of-the-art, either. Well, unless those fonts cannot be fixed with the current resolution. Which I doubt, since for example many Windows Phones have the same pixel density with no issues.07:32
suosaask1Stskeeps: great. Is that out yet?07:32
Stskeepsyes07:32
Stskeepsi might be wrong, of course07:33
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suosaask1Ok. Well, need to check it out next time I meet the coworker :)07:33
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Quuha08:16
QuuJolla was only DNA's #5 in december sales08:17
Stskeepsonly?08:17
Stskeeps:P08:17
Quuwell yeah okay08:17
Stskeepssurpassed iphone 5s ;)08:17
Stskeepsand c08:17
Quuyup08:17
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vegaiit is quite expensive compared to the cheaper lumias and androids08:20
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vegaiQuu: link to statistics?08:24
Quuuhm08:24
Quuhttp://taskumuro.com/jolla-dnan-joulukuun-viidenneksi-myydyin-puhelin08:25
Quunot sure what is the source of that08:25
saltsaoho08:25
KiranosStskeeps: finland nutorious for beeing low % of iphone owners compared to other countries? thinking of Nokia and  not wanting to buy the rivals phone etc08:26
Kiranosintrested in if finland didnt jump on the apple bandwagon when rest of the world did or if it did aswell :)08:27
Quumost teens got iphone08:27
Quubecause 'murica fuck yeah08:27
Kiranosmy gf has iphone and she cant be happier, they did alot of things right08:28
covoxwhat the hell is a galaxy trend08:28
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Quu119e cheap shitty phone08:28
Quuiirc my cousin got that08:29
Quuafter he fucked 2x galaxy xcovers08:29
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suosaask1Stskeeps: on the other hand, iphone was on the top for other isps.08:38
vegaiit also says there that Jolla was #1 in phones costing more than 300 euros08:38
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TemeVI think iPhone would be quite good "entry level" smart phone, but it just has an insane price tag :)08:39
Venemogood morning08:40
Venemovegai: who says that?08:40
PlntVenemo: < Quu> http://taskumuro.com/jolla-dnan-joulukuun-viidenneksi-myydyin-puhelin08:41
Pnuusuosaask1: well, only dna had jolla on sale..08:41
stephgmorning everyone08:41
Pnuuweird, phone was plugged in the charger for the night, and it didn't get charged at all08:42
Pnuuwell, I'll leave it charging and do gut some fish ->08:43
Milo-Just noticed something about those sales listings. Elisa and Sonera lists all iphone5-versions as just 'iphone5', while DNA separates iphone5c and iphone5s.08:44
vegai10:25 < Quu> http://taskumuro.com/jolla-dnan-joulukuun-viidenneksi-myydyin-puhelin08:44
vegaioh, I'm slow.08:44
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TopisetStskeeps, are you there?08:45
Milo-which means if DNA had combined those figures, Jolla probably could've been beaten by iphone.08:45
Kiranosphones vs brands I guess08:45
vegaiMilo-: indeed.08:45
StskeepsTopiset: in a meeting, will prod you later08:45
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Topisetok08:45
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VenemoPlnt: thanks. man, sorry but I can't read that language08:48
PlntVenemo: me neither but google translate works okayish :)08:49
Venemoah08:49
Quugoogle translate is so shit with finnish08:50
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stephgQuu, hey it's not so bad, I love my Whereby phone ;)08:51
Quulol08:51
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suosaask1Milo-: really? I just remember Sonera having Top 5 a couple of months ago like this: 1) iPhone 5S, 2) iPhone 5C, 3) iPhone 4S, 4) Galaxy S4, 5 iPhone 509:01
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Venemookay guys, I didn't expect the average Jolla user to be dumber than the average N9 user, but it seems they are09:03
pp_at 599e you really had to want a N9 :-)09:03
QuuVenemo: what happened? :D09:04
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suosaask1I bought my N9 for 400eur and my wifes 64GB N9 for 249e :)09:04
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suosaask1http://taskumuro.com/apple-iphone-5s-myydyin-puhelin-marraskuussa-dnalla-elisalla-ja-soneralla at least for november sales they are not combined for Sonera, Elisa or DNA.09:06
Venemohalf the reviews of puzzlemaster are from people who can't figure out how to reenable system gestures ingame (hint: there's only one button on the UI)09:06
Quulol?09:07
VenemoQuu: go to the store and take a look09:07
Quuyeah just did09:08
Quusettings are too hard for most people09:08
Quuand you just cant deny it09:08
Venemoit is not a setting09:08
Quumy friend just recently asked something about battlefield 3, asked couple things from him and he said he never even opened the settings09:09
Quudude been playing it for 2 years09:09
Quuwith default settings09:09
Venemofor precisely this reason, my game doesn't even have settings09:09
Quuhehe09:09
Venemothe gestures are only disabled while playing, and there's only one button on on the screen when you're playing - hitting that button also reenables system gestures09:10
MFaro-TusinoOut of curiousity, when did Sailfish turn to Wayland?09:10
Stskeeps~spring09:10
Venemothe REAL problem is if the system gestures were ON during the game, they'd be whining that they can't move puzzle pieces near the edge of the screen!09:10
Nicd-take a look at the comments for the "Military News" app09:10
suosaask1http://taskumuro.com/galaxy-s-iii-ja-iphone-5s-suomalaisten-suosikkipuhelimia-lokakuussa <<< the same for October. Note. iPhone 5S became available in Finland in 25th of October. So those stats are... "ok"...09:10
Nicd-so much butthurt09:10
StskeepsMFaro-Tusino: why?09:11
MFaro-Tusinostskeeps: Thanks! Trying to work out a timeline of development09:11
StskeepsMFaro-Tusino: 'damn fast'09:11
Nicd-"please remove this app! now!" "what is it in the jolla store for?" "shame on you jolla" "I too fell offended"09:11
VenemoNicd-: what's that?09:11
MFaro-TusinoStskeeps: Hahah - I agree to an extent - but think it was fast also, because lots was left out :p09:11
StskeepsMFaro-Tusino: correspond that we had to switch HW vendor in spring, switch to qt5+wayland and a entirely new way of doing adaptations, it's a really quick turnaround09:12
Nicd-Venemo: it's an android app which aggregates news related to the US military I think09:12
StskeepsMFaro-Tusino: so yes, that hurt some of things, but, now we're much more prepared for spread09:12
VenemoNicd-: oh my god09:12
Stskeepsie, our future HW programmes are reduced significantly09:12
Stskeepsin terms of how long time it takes to take a reference ODM design09:12
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MFaro-TusinoStseeps: I agree - given the hold ups you guys did great. Love the advancements in libhyrbis too - I assume thats how you achieved full Android compatability and will release Saifish for Android devices?09:13
StskeepsMFaro-Tusino: android (hw) aye09:13
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Stskeepsas an example: old HW, old stack, it took a month to get opengl working, much more to get 60fps and vsync09:14
Stskeepsold HW, new stack, 36 hours09:14
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Nicd-Venemo: maybe I should write a pledge of allegiance app that would remind the user to say it every morning to see what kind of a shitstorm would appear ;D09:14
Venemolol Nicd-09:15
zoraelwhat is the story behind the HW change?09:15
MFaro-TusinoStskeeps: Well I applaud you guys! Solid effort. One day I hope to be sailing from Down under09:15
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MFaro-Tusinozorael: The chip manufacturer collapsed09:15
MFaro-TusinoGoogle ST-Ericcson09:15
Stskeepsblessing in disguise09:15
zoraelhmm, I see09:15
FryeNicd-, :D09:15
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tehdelyshowed my jolla to a friend today, he was blown away by the ui09:17
VenemoStskeeps: out of curiosity, do you think the change from ST-E => qualcomm was for the better or the worse?09:17
Stskeepsbetter09:17
Stskeepsmuch much better09:17
Venemoyou mean the actual hw is better or that the cooperation between the companies is better?09:17
Stskeepsi don't want to go into details, but it's a much saner experience with sailfish+qt5 stack09:17
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Venemoallright09:18
pp_someone has found all the hardware quirks already when doing android for it :-)09:18
pp_I would guess09:18
zoraelbiggest UI complaint I have so far is missing landscape view in pretty much everything09:19
zoraelparticularly browser09:19
MFaro-Tusinozorael: It seems silly given its one line of code09:19
mudyci would have needed landscape only in gallery09:20
zoraelweb pages that don't reflow its text makes hard reading in portrait09:21
krigwould be nice if the browser could show any video in fullscreen+landscape09:21
zoraeli.e. g+09:21
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stephgStskeeps is it fair to say that the Jolla is the first shipping wayland device? been idly thinking about that and can't think of any others09:22
Stskeepsno, not fair09:23
Stskeepsfirst mobile device, yes; but not first device09:23
stephgooh09:23
Stskeepsthere's free.fr's box too09:23
stephgthat an STB?09:23
Stskeepsyeah09:23
stephgI had no idea09:23
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stephgqt5 as well?09:23
TofeStskeeps: free's freebox uses wayland ?09:24
Stskeepsyeah09:24
Stskeepshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7KzJypQfG009:24
Tofebut they are on the market since quite a while now, they must have used a very early build :)09:24
Stskeepsyes09:25
Tofewow, how could I have missed that09:25
* fk_lx likes those videos showing empty chairs, where usually a lot of public is behind the camera, not before it in first row09:25
pp_Nokia had stuff running on wayland, but surprisingly elop cancelled it all :-)09:25
Stskeepsi had (personally) wayland running on n900/n950/n909:26
Stskeepsbut that's not a product09:26
TofeStskeeps: there was wayland on raspberry pi, but only as an experiment09:26
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MFaro-TusinoStskeeps: I know you probably can't answer this - but - the video demos we have been shown, have Jolla store appearing at the bottom of the app list. Yet its an app in the release build. A few other differences too like Facebook etc. Is that just an old design idea? (Or can''t comment on future products blah blah?)09:28
Venemomy guess: someone worked on an official native facebook client but they canceled it due to lack of time09:29
Quuor its coming in some fancy update09:29
MFaro-TusinoQuu: I hope so. Venemo: I fear time was a big issue09:29
StskeepsMFaro-Tusino: can't really answer, sorry (not an official response)09:30
Quuyou cant answer and thats not official? :D09:30
Quuhuehue09:30
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Andy80I left my device, with no SIM, wifi disconnected, with 30% battery, this morning battery dead :(09:33
Andy80and yes, I had disabled tohd09:33
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phaeronandroid apps ?09:34
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stephgmaps on?09:34
phaeronor any apps in general09:34
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VenemoI left my device with SIM + wifi enabled and playing music on bluetooth for the whole night and battery didn't go below 90%09:36
Tofeyes, the battery usage can be a bit surprising, I must say09:36
stephgyeah I seem to lose < 5% overnight these days with toh turned off09:36
Tofestephg: me too, but then if I use a small android app it drowns quickly09:37
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Tofeand right now I'm at 1-2% per hour, which is ok but a bit decieving given that it doesn't do anything special09:38
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TofeI think the 2G/3G data pumps a lot09:38
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Triztgraphics/touch screen seems to drain battery for me, leaving it not doing much at all even running android apps it's not using that much (wifi and 3G on), the good thing is that the battery recharges quite fast09:39
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TofeIs is possible to have a tool on the Jolla to make some tests ourselves ?09:41
AL13Ndisabling aliendalvik will likely result in less battery drain too09:41
Tofepowertop ?09:41
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AL13Nyes09:41
AL13Nmer-tools repository has more stuff09:41
AL13Niinm09:41
Andy80if my ADSL didn't disconnect maybe...09:41
ggabrielmorning09:43
jusicsTofe: also upower -d shows some info like current consumption09:43
Tofejusics: ok, thanks; of course ideally I'd like to get a per-app consumption, but I guess it's not realistic09:44
Nicd-"the estimated remaining time is 19 hours, 28 minutes"09:45
Nicd-discharge rate of 348 mW09:45
ggabrielTofe: doesn't powertop kind of do that?09:46
Nicd-screen closed, 3g, running fingerterm with powertop, mitakuuluu, email, phone, calendar, messaging and notes09:46
Tofeggabriel: well, it can try, but it's sometimes impossible, like for the screen, or data connection power usage09:46
ggabrielTofe: yup, some things are more hidden than others, but you did say "per-app" :-)09:47
ggabrieltohd.service was an example09:47
Tofeggabriel: fair enough :)09:47
Andy80I've contactsd that is consuming 70% cpu09:47
Andy80ah nothing... now it stopped09:48
Nicd-there was someone who was debugging that problem09:48
Nicd-they said it stopped whenever measured09:48
Tofeit's quantic09:49
Andy80yes... I only know that I wen from 30% battery 10 hours ago, to 0%09:49
Andy80with all (screen 3g, wifi) off09:49
TofeAndy80: there must have been some bug, like a cpu loop, at some time09:50
Tofequite hard to say now09:50
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ggabrielmaybe there is strace somewhere, but that would be quite fun to debug ;)09:51
jusicsor a stray wakelock09:51
TofeThe kind of bug that takes weeks to track, and the benefit may be a 2% battery improvement in 10% of the use cases09:53
jusicsi found that the device naps quite deeply and runs processes only every ~25s when the screen is off09:53
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ShadowJKDepends on how much other stuff runs10:44
ShadowJKon mine stuff only runs a few times per day with screen off.. :)10:45
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Kiranoshttps://together.jolla.com/question/8357/jolla-as-usb-modem/11:03
tango_I think jolla follows the same aggressive sleep pattern as android11:03
tango_trying to sleep whenever possible, modulo wakelocks11:03
Kiranosthe answer here usb tethering, that is not the same thing as usb modem imo?11:04
Kiranosusb modem makes it possible for linux to call out with the phone?11:04
stephg Kiranos I took the meaning as tethering there yeah11:04
Kiranosist tethering more like an access point to use the phones internet connection? but usb modem is the other way around, to use the call stack of the phone to call/send sms through linux11:05
Kiranosfrom a desktop11:05
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Kiranosfor that I'm very iterested :)11:06
Kiranosto use a jolla as usb modem11:06
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Kiranosnot many new phones support this today11:06
Kiranosif any11:06
Kiranosgnokii is relying on old mobiles before the smart phone era :)11:06
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ggabrielKiranos: the jolla doesn't register a usb ppp device11:08
ggabrielit just registers a network interface, and in dev mode only11:08
ggabrielwhich you can use quite easily11:08
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ggabrielstephg: your comment here https://together.jolla.com/question/8596/sip-support-voice-over-ip/ is the answer11:09
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Stskeeps*** welcome to a new sailor in Jolla: sledges - also known from nemo mobile and mer communities :)11:10
stephg\o/11:11
Kiranoscongrats sledges! :D11:11
stephgcongrats!11:11
ggabrielcongrats sledges11:11
stephgggabriel yeah not sure what to do about converting it11:11
Stskeepsand don't try to drag out any information of him, he doesn't know anything11:11
Stskeeps:P11:11
Stskeeps;)11:11
Kiranossledges: now look forward to multiple "when will my device arrive" questions through pm's11:12
faenil\o/ yahoo for sledges !11:12
ggabrielstephg: it's up to you really, i'd convert it if i were you and let the person who asked the question reflect on not using search properly11:12
stephgggabriel the guy had written it literally 5 minutes before I saw it11:12
jusicsKiranos: with dev mode, you can ssh into the phone and send/recv sms probably using e.g. ofono11:12
Kiranosjusics: nice, what I'm after is initiating calls though11:12
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ggabrielKiranos: aahhh, that's another story then11:13
Kiranosusing it integrated with icinga/nagios today with an old ericsson and gnokii11:13
sledgesmany many thanks fellows, it's my dream job (nothing to do with sleeping at work); I'll do my best ! :)11:13
Kiranoswhen we get a critical alert gnokii talkes to a phone and it calls the person responsible11:13
fk_lxsledges: congratz!11:13
Kiranosbut old phones are becoming hard to get by11:13
stephgKiranos yeah that's a fair usecase (though don't dumbphones still offer that?)11:13
Kiranosstephg: yea we have a few spare ones but sooner or later they will run out, gnokii only support some specifics11:14
jusicsi think ofono should work for that too11:14
sledgesthanks Kiranos, stephg, ggabriel, faenil, fk_lx! :)11:15
Kiranossledges: hope you have a great time at #jolla!11:17
sledgesKiranos: undoubtedly, what other company is the best to work for? ;)11:18
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Kiranoswhere I work! ;)11:23
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locusfcongrats sledges11:44
sledgesKiranos :D the best eventual answer for each individual ;)11:46
sledgeslocusf: thanks man!11:46
Tofeoh, congrats sledges !11:47
sledgesthanks :)11:47
Tofesledges: you are based in Helsinki ?11:48
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sledgesnope, UK11:49
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Morpog_PCcongrats sledges!12:02
Morpog_PCand oh noe, there goes nemomobile #1 tinkerer12:02
ggabrielthis is a pretty cool bug https://together.jolla.com/question/8635/ui-bug-app-icons-on-top-of-task-switcher/12:03
Morpog_PCggabriel, had that once too, but the other way around12:03
Morpog_PCbut could still move the launcher up/down12:04
sledgesMorpog_PC: thanks and I'm not intending to go away from our beloved Nemo ;)12:04
ggabrieljolla uses nemo anyway, don't they? or is it just mer?12:05
Morpog_PCYeah I know, but you won't have any time for it, look what happened with faenil or Sfiet_Konstantin during their internships ;)12:05
Morpog_PCbtw, is it an internship or real job?12:05
Sfiet_Konstantinwait what ?12:05
ggabrielthis bug needs more love if you feel vote generous today: https://together.jolla.com/question/1575/bugux-gap-deleting-emails-from-notifications-screen/12:06
sledgesMorpog_PC: im not a student long time ago :)12:06
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Sfiet_Konstantinsledges: congrats12:06
Sfiet_Konstantin\o.12:06
Sfiet_Konstantin\o/12:06
Morpog_PCggabriel, when I talk about nemomobile then I talk about the parts sailfishOS doesn't use :D12:06
sledgesMorpog_PC: wait and see ;)12:06
Morpog_PCsledges, great!12:06
sledgesSfiet_Konstantin: thanks Sfiet_Konstantin ! :D12:07
ggabrielMorpog_PC: i think it's the other way around12:07
ggabrielassuming sledges a) had a job before b) the job in point a had nothing to do with nemo12:07
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sledgesggabriel: do you work for NSA?12:07
ggabrielsledges: maybe :P12:08
Sfiet_Konstantinsledges: what's your official title ?12:08
sledgesforgot to mention now I won extra 2 hours/day without commuting to work12:08
sledgesSfiet_Konstantin: Sailor12:08
Sfiet_KonstantinTofe: and where are you based ?12:08
Morpog_PCyeah true, but those sailors are working on sailfish 24/7 it seems, don't think sledges did that on his old job too ;)12:08
Sfiet_Konstantinsledges: na, sailor in HW ? MW ? SW ? CM ? Sales ? etc :D12:08
Morpog_PCsledges, in theory? :D12:08
sledgesSfiet_Konstantin: Sailor on Board ;P12:08
Sfiet_Konstantinsledges: :P:P12:08
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ggabrielMorpog_PC: yeah, good point, but don't think the 24/7 is a constant thing12:09
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Morpog_PChopefully :D12:09
ggabrieland if anything, ppl at jolla will have mer/nemo very fresh in their heads12:09
ggabrielso work will happen faster12:09
ggabrielhence i said it was the other way around given the 2 conditions12:09
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Kiranos[12:12:02] <Stskeeps> and don't try to drag out any information of him, he doesn't know anything12:10
Kiranos[12:12:03] <Stskeeps> :P12:10
Kiranos[12:12:05] <Stskeeps> ;)12:10
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Morpog_PCit began :D12:10
Morpog_PCwhat the hell a sailfishos ftp server, who would need that?12:11
Morpog_PChttp://code.google.com/p/meeftpserver/downloads/detail?name=sailfishftpserver-2.0-1.armv7hl.rpm12:12
ggabrielMorpog_PC: a trojan? google wants access/control ofc12:13
Morpog_PClol12:14
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ggabrielalso, why make a new ftp server, when there are already a few in linux that work and should compile in sailfish/mer/meego/maemo?12:17
zuttoits nice project to do12:18
zuttoquite useless one tho :P12:18
ggabrielzutto: yeah, ok, agree12:18
ggabriellike a dhcp server or whatever12:18
Kiranosyea sftp should replace ftp soon hopefully,12:19
zuttomeh12:19
TofeSfiet_Konstantin: I'm in Paris12:19
zuttowhy wont you just drop the ftp12:19
zuttoand just use ssh like normal people for file transfers12:19
Sfiet_KonstantinTofe: :)12:19
zuttorsync and scp work very nicely12:19
Kiranoswell sftp uses "normal" ssh :P12:19
zuttoyes, for encryption and connection12:19
Kiranosand rsync is not the best tool for a windows user12:20
Kiranoswinscp is pretty good though12:20
zuttomeh, windows users12:20
ggabrielwindows should die way before ftp12:21
Kiranoslol12:21
zuttothey should stick to their windows shares and samba12:21
ggabrielor windows should start embracing normal tools12:21
ggabrieli wouldn't mind ssh in windows for example12:21
ggabrielit shouldn't be that hard12:21
ggabrieleven apple does it12:21
Kiranosdid not mean to spark that fire today :P12:21
ggabriel:)12:21
zuttoggabriel: well apple is using unix as their base12:21
ggabrielzutto: i learned the other day that they reinvented openssl, so not 100% sure what the future will bring12:21
ggabrieland actually, i found some problems in mac os x's ssl12:22
Tofeggabriel: maybe they reinvented the random seed mistake too...12:22
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ggabrielTofe: maybe, i think the reason was that they didn't like openbsd's versioning of the library doh12:22
Tofe...12:23
ggabrielactually, it had to do with api compatiblity among new versions12:24
ggabrielwhich is another way of saying the same thing :P12:24
ggabrieltime for lunch anyway12:24
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Triztnoticed there are a number of services which has error at startup for example auditd, thats supposed to be like that at them moment?12:34
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Kiranoswhich kind of errors?12:36
TriztKiranos: not that good on systemd, but when running "systemctl -a" there will be a number of services which has a red "error" notification12:38
Kiranoshttps://together.jolla.com/questions/12:39
Kiranospost them in a question12:39
ggabrielTrizt: only the SD mounter and tohd on mine (SD mounter because i've got btrfs and tohd because i stopped it :P )12:40
TriztKiranos: don't have all logins at work, so it will be tonight if I remember.12:40
Triztggabriel: don't everyohone have btrfs?12:41
ggabrielTrizt: :) no, you can always use FAT and it succeeds12:41
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Triztggabriel: okey you mean on the sd card?12:41
ggabrielTrizt: yeah, that's what i meant, btrfs formattted sd card12:42
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Triztokey, mine is still vfat, it's from my n900, but I noticed it failes to mount from time to time too12:42
Triztis there a simple way to correct birthdays? All of mine are off by one hour12:44
ggabrieli think that's a known issue12:45
ggabrieli remember seeing it somewhere12:45
Triztit's a known issue, but I can't edit the birthdays12:45
TriztI noticed that the ptp has wrong time on the files, also seems to be affected by the timedifference to EET12:46
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ggabrielTrizt: edit the birthdays where? in the calendar? you ought to edit that in the people application in theory12:47
ggabrielhence they'll always be shifted12:47
arkkipiiskaMoi, anyone who can tell me where call forwarding settings are? I did a forward t my workphone in case I screwed up the cutting of sim card but now I can't remove the forwarding12:47
ggabrielarkkipiiska: settings->apps->phone iirc12:48
arkkipiiskathanks, got it!12:49
Triztggabriel: it's correct on the contact, just the reoccuring event in the calendra which is offsync with an hour12:49
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pdaneknow I know why Yandex store didn't work for me... Yandex store doesn't work on mobile connection!12:53
pdanekit only works on Wifi12:53
pdanekat least for me12:53
pdanekI have double-tested now12:53
krnlynghow does sailfish detect swipe gestures? they are broken on the n9 (landscape vs portrait)12:54
TofeDo you guys think that adding new "horizontal pages" on lock screen (i.e. in addition to ambiences) would be a good idea?12:54
Jopeyou'll notice the notifications also show up on the wrong edge in the n912:54
Jopeprobably related12:54
krnlyngJope: yep12:54
Jopeframebuffer rotated but some other coordinate system is not12:54
valdur55I played with /usr/lib/qt5/qml/Sailfish/Silica/  files and i dit not archived notification/swipe roataion change.  I got homescreen and qt apps to buggy landscape mode....12:57
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Tofevaldur55: I guess the compositor needs to be adapted a bit too, not only Silica12:58
VenemoTofe: no, having ambiences as a horizontal page also breaks my flow12:59
valdur55sure.  something with adaption is broken, because normal device have right swipe orientation.13:00
Venemopdanek: report in together please13:01
TofeVenemo: I understand, but it's just that currently, the horizontal layout of the lockscreen is either too much or too little13:01
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Venemomhm13:02
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TofeAh, it's very hard to find a new idea for Together that hasn't been covered yet !13:10
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VenemoTofe: it's easy. just vote up my bug reports.13:11
ggabrielTofe: i'm finding something almost daily, but they are corner cases mostly13:12
TofeVenemo: I'm on it ;)13:13
ggabrielthis is weird.... i created a test xmpp account and it deleted the gtalk one13:14
ggabrielbut i can't reproduce now13:14
igheaHow does the Jolla's own email client store the login information? Are those encrypted?13:15
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valdur55can anyone share  /var/lib/environment/compositor/*.conf  content?13:30
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Jonniighea: yes they are encrypted.13:38
Wntvaldur55: http://upload.egarden.fi/var_lib_environment_compositor.tar13:39
valdur55woot: LIPSTICK_OPTIONS="-plugin evdevtouch:/dev/input/event0:rotate=0 -plugin evdevkeyboard:keymap=/usr/share/qt5/keymaps/boston.qmap"13:40
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Tofevaldur55: not the kind of option I would mess with :)13:40
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valdur55Tofe: why not?   n9.conf  have empty LIPSTICK_OPTIONS13:41
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Tofevaldur55: what if you end up with no touch input working ?13:41
valdur55Tofe: no problem!13:42
Tofehehe13:42
valdur55i will survive, because  it is only sailfish conf.13:42
valdur55it doesn't break harmattan.13:42
Jonniyou can always boot to harmattan and edit the file back13:43
Tofeof course, from that point of view...13:43
valdur55or ssh into device.13:43
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krnlyngvaldur55, Tofe: or use the ubiboot maintenance thingy13:52
TofeI'm not runnning any n9 :)13:53
krnlyng:) i figured that13:53
krnlyngvaldur55: -plugin evdevtouch:/dev/input/event0:rotate=0 looks promising13:53
stephglpotter piiiiiiing!13:56
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Wntif you manage to fix / create workaround for the 90° rotation bug on N9 Sailfish port please update https://github.com/romu70/sailfish-for-other/issues/313:56
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krnlyngsure13:57
krnlyngvaldur55: -plugin evdevtouch:/dev/input/event3:rotate=0 maybe?14:00
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Tofekrnlyng: if event0 does work for touch input, I think you should stick to it; the other event evdev files will only be things like physical buttons etc14:02
msknightHi Folks,, does anyone know how to calibrate the e-compas on Jolla please?14:02
krnlyngTofe: i thought /dev/input/event3 was the touch input file on n9, but i am not sure about that14:02
ggabrielmsknight: did you try the figure of eight trick?14:03
Tofekrnlyng: you can test it with tools like... cat :)14:03
Stskeepsmsknight: what app do you test with, out of curiousity?14:03
msknightggabriel: I don't even know how to get to the point where I can run the figure of 814:03
msknightStskeeps: Hi! I am trying to get Google Maps running - it always points North14:03
ggabrielmsknight: you just do a figure of 8 with the phone in the air 2-3 times14:04
* ggabriel not sure whether the compass is exposed to android tho....14:04
msknightStskeeps:  I posted a part 3 a day or two ago, by the way.14:04
Pnuucompass should point north 8-)14:04
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Stskeepsmsknight: yeah i think i saw14:04
msknightggabriel: I've normally had to hav a calibration app running when i've done that on Android. I haven't found a place in teh settings for this on Jolla yet.14:05
msknightStskeeps: Cool.14:05
ggabrielmsknight: i never had to do any calibration on the n9, maybe that's an android thing? i told you about the figure of 8 as that's what the tool to test internals in the jolla says you should do14:05
ggabrielagain, i'm unsure as to whether the ecompass is exposed to alien dalvik14:06
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msknightStskeeps: I know the bluetooth volume warning is on the radar, but any clue when we might see a resolution please? Jan? Feb? Rough guess?14:06
pp_there's a "GPS test app" that's pretty verbose in android14:06
valdur55/dev/input/event314:06
msknightggabriel: there was another sat nav app that worked fine ... except the maps were hopeless!14:06
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Stskeepsmsknight: i need our audio guy to be back to be able to predict anything like that14:06
pp_seems to have a "heading", but it's not getting a fix here so...14:06
pp_uncertain whether it gets the compass or not :P14:06
ggabrielmsknight: aaahhh, ok, then dunno really :)14:06
valdur55i used /dev/input/event0 and nothing changed14:06
msknightStskeeps: No problem ... it's on your radar, that's cool enough. I just have to revert to teh S2 for sat nav ... but I get hung up because any texts/emails that land on teh S2 obviously don't then land on the Jolla!14:07
msknightSuch is life!14:07
krnlyngvaldur55: on my n9 lipstick_options is LIPSTICK_OPTIONS=-plugin evdevtouch:/dev/input/event314:07
msknightStskeeps: Also, any news on the ability to read/access micro SD cards please?  I avoided asking this as there are other things more important probably, but as I'm here :-)14:08
Stskeepsmsknight: from android, right?14:08
kehnoodamn good coffee @ jolla14:08
msknightStskeeps: Yes, it came from the S2 and is Fat 32 formated.14:08
Tofekehnoo: that may be the secret to how they can keep working 25h a day14:09
StskeepsTofe: 25? we demand 7014:09
msknightStskeeps: I didn't see anything to handle/format SD cards in the settings, so I presumed it was something to be coming in a future update14:09
ggabrielkehnoo: hehe, what coffee? :)14:09
ggabrielas in what kind14:09
Stskeepsmsknight: well i meant rather, sd access from within android, or in general system?14:10
Pnuumsknight: there's several topics on sd cards in together14:10
msknightPnuu: Well, you know me and together right now ... we're apart :-D14:10
kehnoooh just regular from the machine14:10
* ggabriel going for a coffee since it was mentioned....14:10
Pnuumsknight: well, the information is already there..14:10
msknightStskeeps: Well, I'm trying to only just use android apps if I have to. I'm trying to stay native sailfish.14:11
Pnuubut as you like14:11
Stskeepsmsknight: okay14:11
msknightStskeeps: if it comes in teh future ... then it comes in the future.14:11
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Stskeepsmsknight: i think there'll probably be some better handling but we need to take the cycle of getting proper design for things etc14:11
Stskeepsformat disk A: may not be applicable14:11
Stskeeps;)14:11
msknightStskeeps: If I wanted windows ... I'd have gone the N word :-D14:12
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TofeN900 runs Windows too ?14:12
Stskeepsin qemu14:12
Tofeah, I'm so proud of that little thing14:13
TofeDid someone try to compile qemu on Sailfish, btw ?14:13
stephgDo I remember someone running OSX on it? it took a day and a bit to boot?14:14
msknightLOL!14:14
msknightA colleague has Win 3.11 in a VM. Starts in the blink of an eye. Totally useless .. but starts quick.14:14
faenilhttps://twitter.com/faenil/status/41874715085229260914:15
faenilUpvote if you like it14:15
Tofefaenil: mmmmh tricky to vote for that one !14:15
faenilmm? :)14:16
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valdur55krnlyng: and .. is it working nicely?14:16
msknightHmm... how do you define a top contributor?14:16
msknightBehaviour on together has already put me off it.14:16
* msknight draws breath and mutters, "Don't drive angry. Don't drive angry...."14:17
valdur55nothing changed...  maybe i have messed other files...14:17
faenilmsknight, well, that is another thing to define :) it's just an idea14:17
valdur55But yes.  /dev/input/event3 is touchscreen14:17
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: stop spamming ideas14:17
* faenil looks for a large trout14:18
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Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: also, you can edit your question to ask for people to contribute to the lists of prices in comments14:18
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: :D14:18
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, done14:19
* msknight returns to work before the dinghy turns in to a trawler to find trout for faenil.14:19
Kiranosfaenil: top voters contributors or top spammers?14:19
* faenil hands cookies to msknight 14:19
* msknight munches down. "Cheapskate, these are only double choc."14:19
faenilKiranos, no I was thinking something like the guys who get most answers as accepted ones14:20
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: there is a difference between top contributor, top karma, and top spammer14:20
Sfiet_Konstantinusually top karma is not top contributor14:20
msknightROTFL!14:20
Sfiet_Konstantincloser to top spammer sometimes14:20
faenilagree14:20
faenilmsknight, ?14:20
msknightLOL @ what Sfiet_Konstantin said.14:21
* stephg wanders off to order users by karma ;)14:21
PnuuI've got 5 questions, 22 answers and 1400 karma14:21
* msknight wanders off to some work before she gets fired.14:21
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Pnuuand quite many retags which don't accumulate karma14:22
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TofeSfiet_Konstantin: you are the only frenchie in the first page of users with karma, hold on tight!14:23
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ggabrieli honestly don't care about karma14:31
ggabrielbut i do wonder where i'm from14:31
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Pnuuggabriel: I don't care either, it just seems to accumulate :-P14:35
ggabrielPnuu: yeah :)14:39
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ggabrielridiculous battery life, i'm rather impressed14:47
ggabrielunless the meter is still adjusting and it will drop all of a sudden14:47
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micko_my camera refuses to start14:54
Waiteereboot?14:55
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Pnuumicko_: check journalct output when starting14:56
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micko_unable to open /proc/number/oom_score_adj15:02
micko_for writing15:02
ggabrieltop tip: harmattan doesn't have peek, so don't look for it15:05
ln-it has some sort of peek15:06
ggabrielln-: yeah, but not the one i was looking for, and it took me a good 2 seconds to realize ;)15:07
ggabrieli won't add this to tjc15:07
micko_reboot helped15:07
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jubo2So when is Jolla kakspistenolla coming out ?15:15
jubo2or is it that 1.X will be forever awesomessessity15:16
parasemicphone or os? :D15:17
parasemicanswer to both: no idea15:17
ggabrieli'm really looking forward to the new update15:19
ggabrielif it comes with lte, i'll find it really hard to stay on the n915:19
ggabrielunless it comes with caldav ;)15:20
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jubo2I must have all calendars sync with all calendar, so yes, caldav support15:22
jubo2A russian off-line dictionary and I'm a happy camper..15:22
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ggabrieljubo2: haha, i haven't seen a proper free online dictionary in years15:26
ggabriels/online/offline/15:26
ggabrieli think i used to have one in the 5800 that came with symbian15:26
jubo2ggabriel: my NOK E75 has it.. but it doesn't have input method in Russian so one cannot use it that way..15:26
ggabrieljubo2: well, i use english mostly, so happy to settle with that. the challenge gets more interesting for chinese/japanese/korean languages and their input methods15:27
jubo2but it comes with a succkky artificial limit of max 3 langs at any point in time15:27
ggabrieljubo2: yeah, i remember that15:27
jubo2ggabriel: I hear Jolla has 16 virtual keyboards15:27
jubo2ggabriel: yeah.. but as to Chinese input means..15:28
jubo2My class mate, our reinforcement from China..15:28
ggabrieljubo2: i can count 1215:28
jubo2I think he writes pinyin and the machine turns em into ideograms15:28
ggabriel_but_ you need to know chinese for hte chinese one for instance15:29
ggabrielyou can't draw a symbol15:29
hene-does anyone know where to get AHJ adapter to get n9 hf work with jolla? :)15:29
ggabrielhene-: amazon?15:29
ggabrielhf=headphone?15:29
hene-handsfree yes15:29
ggabrielah15:29
ggabrieli can give you a link if you want (is it ok to give amazon links here? i forget...)15:30
hene-why would'nt be? :) or just pm it15:31
jubo2ggabriel: need to distinguish words for "pork" and "lamp" and "chops"15:31
jubo2that's all I'd ever use it for..15:31
ggabrielhene-: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005T1MQ1Q/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=115:31
ggabrielhene-: mind you, i have that exact one to convert android/ios to n915:31
ggabrielin theory, the adapter does the other way around15:31
jubo2When we go to Saint Petersburg we eat at our local's ..15:31
ggabrielalso, i had 2 of them. the first one lasted next to nothing, this one that I posted has lasted over a year now, and i use it for running etc15:32
ggabrieljubo2: :)15:32
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jubo2portapotty is 15 RUB ( run by kids, child labour!! ) because apparently no plumbing is built but the upside is the local style open charoal BBQ15:33
hene-ggabriel, yep15:33
hene-thanks15:33
jubo2Excellent shopping and chops15:33
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jubo2Nevskoye on tap is 80 RUB but the 60 RUB stuff from can is good ( Reinheitsgebot ) too15:34
jubo2hahaha.. the Germans are applying special status for Reinheitsgebot15:34
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jubo2the news didn't even tell you the EU shut down Reinheitsgebot's status as a law15:35
jubo2sez it's against it's "principles"15:35
jubo2now the Germans are going to get some other status then law for Reinheitsgebot.. like Unesco world heritage or so..15:36
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ShadowJKWell there are issues with it15:50
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ShadowJKIt sets fixed price for beer, and yeast is not on the list of approved ingredients, and neither is wheat, which is the most popular type of beer in Bavaria :P15:51
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Pnuuhow did we end up to reinheitsgebot?-)15:52
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ShadowJKI didnt scroll up to find out15:53
Pnuuand I had ping timeout :-/15:53
SpeedEvilPnuu: the new model will have an alcohol fuel cell that runs on beer.15:54
Pnuunot the best choice for fuel cell :-D15:54
stephgone for me, one for my jolla...15:54
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Pnuuwould reduce my beer^Wphone use..15:55
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TofeOh, Jolla sells fifth in Finland... Congrats guys15:58
ln-fifth in DNA stores15:58
Tofeln-: well, yes, under certain categories, and so on :) But still, it's quite a good achievement15:58
ggabrieldoes anybody know how many high street sales did jolla have in .fi?16:00
ggabrielout of mere curiosity16:00
TofeI'd be interested too16:00
TofeBut I would also understand if such figures were not public yet16:01
ggabrieluhm... not sure why as they aren't a public company16:01
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Tofeggabriel: well, it would be compared to other phones, in some papers, and I guess many would not understand why some zeros are missing16:02
ggabrieli say let the people who buy phones because they are popular should continue doing so16:03
ggabrielthat sentence is grammatically incorrect16:03
ggabrielrelphrase: i say let the people who buy popular phones continue doing so16:04
Tofebut I did understand it, so, well good enough16:04
ggabriels/relphrase/rephrase/16:04
ggabrieland my logic is this: jolla doesn't want phones returned because "they don't work" while in beta phase16:04
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TofeI agree.16:05
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TofeLet's trust their strategy, up till now it has worked quite well I think. Just look at the community it has already gathered.16:06
ggabrieloh but i do, that doesn't stop me from being curious16:07
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Tofeggabriel: same for me. So, the figures !16:07
tumpeloanybody knowledgeable about Qt and GPS?16:10
AL13NTofe: what's the first 4?16:14
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TofeAL13N: it's some Nokias and a Samsung, I think, let me find an english source16:16
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TofeAL13N: http://mynokiablog.com/2014/01/02/jolla-outsells-iphone-5s-and-5c-at-finnish-dna-810-phones-for-elisa-corporate-customers-were-nokia-devices/16:16
Tofesome Samsungs and a Nokia, then16:16
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micko_äh. hidas netti on hidas. täällä on kuulemma talo vuorattu metalliverkolla. signaali katoaa aika tehokkaasti16:19
Nicd-wrong language16:19
Waitee:D16:21
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micko_wrong channel. sorry16:27
micko_also that "wrong channel4 went first to a wrong channel16:28
FireFlythat's meta.16:31
clauwas the number of pre-orders ever made public?16:31
Nicd-clau: no16:31
Nicd-but judging from the store I'd say there's around 8000 - 8500 phones16:32
claunot bad16:32
ggabrieli'm pretty certain they sold 10k online16:33
RaimNicd-: some core apps already have more than 10,000 downloads16:33
ggabrielbut was interested in high street, which apparently they shipped another 10k for16:33
Nicd-Raim: only android support that I see and there are a lot of people reinstalling it16:33
ShadowJKi suspect the grand total was 10k16:33
Nicd-clock has been installed about 9000 times and that's a basic app16:34
FireFlybut far from necessary..16:34
Nicd-I'd guess most install it anyway. maps has been downloaded 9500 times16:35
RaimNicd-: hm, right. I thought it would only count once per Jolla account, but maybe it's real downloads (but does it count updates multiple times?)16:35
Nicd-Raim: I have no idea16:35
FireFlyI'd go with calendar or music player instead for guessing devices from download count16:35
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ShadowJKthat's a thing not everyone will install16:36
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clauI wonder why Jolla does not make a statement about this.16:41
ggabrielENOTIME :)16:41
krnlyngi found a way to fix swipes on the n916:41
ggabrielmaking statements/pr is utterly boring (like raising elephants)16:41
krnlyngbut it breaks other stuff :(16:42
clauggabriel, I'm sure they have people paid exactly for that :)16:43
ccha4jolla pictures desn't display any more :(16:43
clauI mean, making statements, not raising elephants :).16:43
ccha4in details, With and High are both at 016:43
ccha4on the overview, I can see all the pics16:43
ggabrielccha4: anything in journalctl? also, does a reboot help?16:44
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w00telephants, eh16:44
w00tsounds like a market niche16:44
ggabrielw00t: just an obscure reference ;)16:45
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ccha4Jan 02 17:34:12 localhost jolla-gallery[15363]: [W] QQmlImportDatabase::importPlugin:1697 - Module 'QtDocGallery' does not contain a module identifier directive - it cannot be protected from external registrations.16:46
ccha4Jan 02 17:34:12 localhost jolla-gallery[15363]: [W] QQmlImportDatabase::importPlugin:1697 - Module 'Sailfish.Gallery' does not contain a module identifier directive - it cannot be protected from external registrations.16:46
ggabrielccha4: i suggest a reboot and test if it fixes it, and report it in either case in tjc16:47
ggabrielyou'll get one of my votes if you do it quickly enough ;)16:47
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Nicd-ccha4: I think those messages should be harmless16:49
w00tindeed they are16:50
dazoDoes anyone of you have any trusted sources how to get Google Play installed?  (I've seen a few, but they seemt want me to download stuff from IP address I'm not sure I should trust)16:52
Nicd-you have to trust some source anyway16:52
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tehdelyafter tohd fix16:53
tehdelymy jolla only discharged 4% overnight16:53
tehdelyamaze16:53
tehdelysuch efficient16:53
tehdelyvery elegant16:53
tehdelywow16:53
ccha4hum is it possible to tail journalctl ?16:53
tango_very elegance <- FTFY16:54
tehdelythx16:54
dazoNicd-: true ... but I'm willing to trust what more people here trust :) ... rather that than just choosing a random solution on a random blog16:54
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tehdelydazo: i went with the random solution and hope the NSA is enjoying my snapchats16:54
tehdelyi realized that android users trust random crap on the internet all the time16:54
tehdelyheh.16:54
Pnuuccha4: journalctl -fa16:54
ccha4thx16:55
dazotehdely: ;-)  Yup ... that's why I try to step carefully :)16:55
Pnuu-f for follow, -a for all16:55
tehdelyin any case it worked.  i got the play store installed and was able to install the one android app I Just Had To Have16:55
ccha4so no message on the select a picture16:56
tehdelyi've had "mainstream app envy" for years16:56
dazotehdely: Is this the one you followed?  http://www.jollatides.com/2013/11/29/jolla-how-to-access-google-play/16:56
tehdelyyep16:56
tehdelyand installed the random binaries listed there16:56
dazookay, I'll poke carefully at them before installing it then16:57
ggabrielagain i restarted the phone and it charged itself from 42% to 49% :)16:59
ggabrielit feels the  luv16:59
ccha4evething work fine execpt display the pictures :(16:59
ccha4I can swipe to next picture, but next one doesn't display anything16:59
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Pnuuccha4: https://together.jolla.com/question/4625/gallery-app-not-displaying-pictures/17:00
Pnuuccha4: the same behavior?17:01
ccha4yes same one17:01
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viqHow bad an idea is it to chmod 755 /run/user/100000/ ?17:07
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viq(trying to symlink folder from /data/sdcard to /run/user/100000/media/sdcard so android stuff would use the sdcard, not internal storage)17:08
tehdelyi noticed the phone doesn't consider .m4a files music17:10
tehdelythat's kind of a bummer17:10
tehdelyi wonder if it's just ALAC that it won't play, or AAC period17:10
ggabrieluhm... maps rooting is pretty broken17:12
ggabriels/rooting/routing/17:12
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tehdelyi just hope we get Drive+ one day17:13
ggabrielwell, i'm talking about pretty basic routing17:13
ggabrieli see if i can build a case and report it17:13
ggabrielthere are a few umbrella questions about maps, but umbrella questions are not too good17:14
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viqRight, I think I got up the android apps that I'm used to to tide me over until native equivalents are available, only things remaining are certs for XMPP and Ca{l,rd}DAV17:15
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tabasko_wow, I did know that mms doesnt yet work. But there is not info about it either?17:21
tabasko_I mean, if you receive mms on old phone which doesnt support it, you get link to see that mms17:22
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viqtabasko_: I believe that's up to your phone provider17:40
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AJAX555oh fsck removed google play store..17:46
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HtheBStskeeps: are you there?17:46
HtheBWhat do you guys think about this: https://together.jolla.com/question/8877/manually-select-internet-connection-legacy-option/17:47
HtheBis it possible Stskeeps?17:47
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PnuuHtheB: how did it work on N900 or N9?17:50
PnuuI just turn wlan off when I don't use it17:51
HtheBYou just click on "Internet connection" then you can just manually select an internet connection17:51
Pnuusaves battery..17:51
HtheBPnuu: it's even better on N9 and N90017:51
HtheBdid you never used it?17:51
Pnuuwell, that's why I asked ;-)17:51
HtheBI never want that my device will be automatically connected to a network17:52
Pnuunever had either of those17:52
Pnuuthen turn the mobile data and wlan off :-P17:52
HtheBbut when I want to make a connection, I need to toggle it back on again17:52
HtheBwhich will automatically connect to a network again...17:52
Pnuuummm17:52
HtheBN9 and N900 users will understand :)17:53
ccha4Pnuu: pictures are displayed now17:53
ccha4I put an answer17:54
Pnuuccha4: great :-)17:54
igheaJonni: as you seem to know something about the email application, would you also happen to know if there is some limits with passwords, especially with the email sending settings? I and my friend both own Jolla and use the same email service provider with exactly same settings. His device has functioning email sending and mine doesn't. I have terribly long password which might be the only cause. :P17:55
igheaRetrieving emails works fine.17:55
HtheBPnuu: just vote for the idea so both parties will be happy :P17:55
Milo-HtheB's suggestion makes sense.17:55
Pnuuno I won't, as I don't know what you want :-D17:55
HtheBPnuu: what didnt you understand then?17:56
Pnuuwhy don't you just toggle the connection you need and use that?17:56
Jonniighea: afaik there shouldnt be differences between sending and receiving passwrd lenghts, so options are that you have typoed the passwd, but ofcourse there could be a bug17:56
HtheBbecause it makes connection whenever it wants... not when I want it :)17:57
HtheByes, if you turn on the toggle, it will "try" to make connection, but when it cant make a connection, it wont do anything17:57
Pnuutoggle when you want -> connection when you want?17:57
Jonnior different isp's blocking email sending port (if its not behind ssl auth).17:57
HtheBare there any N900 N9 users here?17:57
Milo-just because I can access to a wlan connection, doesn't mean I want to automatically use that.17:58
HtheBMilo-: exactly17:58
HtheBto avoid that, I need to turn off wifi17:58
PnuuMilo-: toggle it off?17:58
HtheBbut with N900 you didnt had to do that17:58
HtheBPnuu: thats bs17:58
PnuuI really don't understand how would you want to do things :-D17:58
Milo-Pnuu but I can only toggle wlan, not specific connection.17:58
HtheBi dont want to keep busy with toggles17:58
HtheBMilo-: did you vote for the idea?17:59
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Pnuuwell, I'm off to sauna17:59
Milo-HtheB not yet.17:59
Milo-now I did.17:59
Milo-had to make sure we are on the same page :)17:59
HtheByaay17:59
Milo-I might have to start talking here on a different name, because my co-workers are stalking me on this channel :P18:00
HtheBhahaha18:00
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clausometimes when I lock the screen by swiping from the top, it comes back on immediately after it's completely off. has anyone else seen this?18:25
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HtheBclau: it detects 'double tapping' somehow then18:26
claumost likely; though I'm quite sure I don't get the finger off the screen during the swipe.18:27
Pnuuclau: I have that quite often too18:27
claumaybe if the pressure is not constant during the swipe it's sometimes interpreted as double tap?18:28
HtheBPnuu: got out of the sauna? :)18:28
Pnuuyup, it's not that far :-)18:28
HtheBnow, vote for it :p18:28
HtheBhaha18:28
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HtheBI think Stskeeps is busy :P18:34
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HtheBSeriously, I hope more N9 or N900 users will vote for this option :)18:35
HtheBhttps://together.jolla.com/question/8877/manually-select-internet-connection-legacy-option/       (for the ones that missed the link(18:36
HtheB)18:36
clauHtheB, are you sure this is how it worked on N9 ?18:44
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HtheBclau: yes ? :)18:44
HtheBI still use it everyday18:44
HtheB(n950)18:44
HtheBThere is no 'toggle' :)18:45
clauI think it's connecting to the available networks as soon as you turn it on, even if you get the list of AP's on screen.18:45
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HtheBclau, did you use an n9/n900? :)18:45
clauand then you select one, and it connects to that.18:46
claulet me check it, I have the n9 somewhere...18:46
HtheBI have disabled auto connect on every AP18:46
clauah, I see18:46
clauok, that I would like as an option too.18:46
HtheBas stated on the question, there is an option on the n9 to enable the auto connection too18:47
clau+1 from me18:47
HtheBbut also manually18:47
HtheBmuch far superior then just 'toggles'18:47
arkkipiiskahave you come across the mobile data not starting up, wifi works nicely but when I try to toggle /Mobile DAta/Internet it stays "Disabled" no matter what?18:53
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claudid it work before? there's a bug in the autoconfiguration it seems.18:54
arkkipiiskanope, just got mine today18:54
HtheBarkkipiiska: just vote for the legacy option, im pretty sure that it will also solve this kind of problem :p18:54
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clauarkkipiiska, https://together.jolla.com/question/942/did-you-have-trouble-with-your-jolla-not-discovering-gprs3g-data-settings/18:55
clauarkkipiiska, you will have to get the "Access point name" from your provider, or from another phone which uses it.18:56
arkkipiiskayup, thanks. now I got the settings ope. did not realize I need to hold the "Internet" to get into these18:58
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arkkipiiskaSweet :) I also love the way Irssi works out of the box from terminal compared to Androids Irssi Connectbot! Looks good after first day of use19:02
viqHuh, installed Google Play store, installed BeyondPod from it, all went fine, it downloaded podcasts.... but won't play them19:03
Quuviq: it downloads them to /data/sdcard/ or something19:04
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Quuneed to move them to media/music/whatever for the mediaplayer to see the,19:05
Quuthem19:05
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Quuor ln -s19:05
viqQuu: I want BeyondPod to play them19:05
viqAlso I already have a symplink19:05
viqah, a reboot helped19:06
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Quuyeah, you need to restart the galler/mediaplayer/something for them to be scanned19:06
viqNow to figure out how to make the tracker NOT see them19:07
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viqah, there we go19:20
viqGah, why does it keep insisting there's an update19:21
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arkkipiiskawhat text editor is available in the terminal?19:31
HtheBnano19:31
HtheBpkcon install nano19:31
faenilvim, nano is not installed by defaul19:31
arkkipiiskathx19:32
TofeIs it possible for a third-party dev to create a new account type ? Where would be the documentation about that ?19:34
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AL13Nvi is available by default19:48
AL13Nvim can be installed19:48
* Stskeeps yawns19:50
HtheBStskeeps: hi19:50
HtheBglad to see you here :)19:50
AL13NStskeeps: my boy woke me up during the night, several times... you too?19:50
HtheBWhat do you think about this one Stskeeps https://together.jolla.com/question/8877/manually-select-internet-connection-legacy-option/19:50
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StskeepsHtheB: i think it's rather a fight to be taken with our designers19:51
StskeepsAL13N: well, business as usual here, but normally wife takes care of kiddo during night and i help so she can sleep in morning19:52
HtheBIf there is a toggle that enables "legacy mode" that will remove the toggles, and just work as the N900 and N9, it shouldn't be hard, right?19:52
HtheBthat means both parties will win19:52
AL13NStskeeps: with us, i mostly sleep in morning, so i have to take care of him during the night, or rather, my wife wakes me up, cause i don't hear it :-S19:54
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BysmyyrAL13N: It is vim, but starts only with vi ;)19:55
AL13Nwell, not vim-enhanced, mostly like vim-tiny19:55
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tango_you can install vim full blown20:02
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HtheBStskeeps: are those designers coming from android/ios?...20:08
HtheBbecause the design back in maemo/harmattan days was far better... :(20:09
StskeepsHtheB: no, in fact our chief designer was behind the n900 design20:09
HtheBthen why did they pick that 'design'? :(20:09
HtheBit's rather a flaw to me...20:09
HtheBYou know, sailfish is about "better multitasking" but the n900 and even harmattan beats sailfish (at the moment)20:10
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stephgHtheB honest question, in what way were they better? I find this far easier and quicker to use than either that came before20:11
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HtheBstephg: for example: multi window20:11
HtheBwhen you want 2 windows text mesages20:12
stephgreally? on my N9 I'd be drowning in loads of unidentifiable chat windows20:12
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HtheBthere are people who used that feature20:12
HtheBalso about the internet connection20:12
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HtheBstephg: have a look at this: https://together.jolla.com/question/8877/manually-select-internet-connection-legacy-option/20:13
HtheBthis is also one of the things that I concern20:13
HtheBwhich feels as a drawback20:13
tango_ah, one discussion per window20:13
tango_mdi vs sdi20:13
tango_the eternal debate20:13
HtheBtango_: there could be an option in the settings to enable or disable such option :)20:14
tango_the big problem that I see with this is that currently each desktop window represents a single application, so e.g. closing it closes the application20:14
tango_now how would you close the messaging app if there were N windows open?20:15
tango_you'd have to either close all apps or close each of its windows separately20:15
tango_btw I do agree that it would be nice to have multiple windows per app as an option20:15
tango_android for example would enormously benefit from it20:15
HtheBthats the thing, I dont wnat to close an app, I only want to close the window20:15
tango_there was a proposal on together to 'stack' windows from the same app20:16
HtheBbecause I want to switch from window to window20:16
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HtheBagain, this doesnt feel as true multitask as it was on the n900/n920:16
tango_well, multitasking is from task to task20:17
stephg^that20:17
tango_wether multiple conversations in a single program are multiple tasks or not is debatable. as I said, I agree that the option makes sense20:17
tango_but it's also true that there are usability concerns20:17
HtheBtask ==! app20:18
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HtheBindeed !:)20:18
tango_HtheB: for example, would you consider one browser window per page too superior to tabs?20:18
HtheBmany sees the 'tasks' as 'apps' (going from one to the other app or so)20:19
HtheBtango_: Tabs is good, because you have quickly access to in instead of going back and forward20:19
tango_but are tabs better than windows? or worse?20:19
HtheBalso, the jolla browser reloads pages when switching tabs :/20:19
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HtheBbetter yes20:19
tango_so why not tabs in the messaging app too?20:20
HtheBbut that means i will have 4939832498 tabs!? O_o20:20
stephgHtheB switching chats is one swipe left and one touch20:20
tango_for example, I would rather prefer if sailfish os had some built-ins to manage tabbing20:20
tango_and e.g. provide the option for each tab to have a cover, with covers 'stacking'20:21
HtheBtango_: nice idea :)20:21
tango_(when of the same app)20:21
HtheBtango_: did you check the link I just gave to stephg?20:21
tango_so you could add a gesture up/down to cycle20:21
tango_HtheB: can't use the browser currently20:21
HtheBalright20:21
stephgHtheB looking at that20:22
tango_(fscked up my filesystem, browser won't start)20:22
stephg(the wifi I mean), seems to me all that's actually missing is the 'connect automatically' toggle for networks in the settings app20:22
stephg(comparing against the N9)20:22
tango_the wifi thing is pretty flaky IME20:22
tango_especially if you have multiple accessible wifis20:22
tango_you can select a second one without deselecting the first20:23
tango_and of course it fails to connect20:23
tango_DUH20:23
HtheBtango_: thats what the link is about20:23
HtheBhaving the "N900/N9" connection selection experience on Jolla20:23
tango_well, that would be trivial to solve by making network selection a radio button group20:23
HtheBwhen selecting Legacy option, the buttons should be obsolete20:24
stephgHtheB look forwards not backwards ;)20:24
tango_HtheB: in the n900 it's _essentially_ radio buttons20:24
HtheBstephg: this is forward :) because right now, this is a drawback20:24
HtheBI have disabled any auto connection20:25
HtheBon my n9 and n90020:25
HtheBso having the "connect to the internet" button is much better that way20:25
ShadowJKI double tap cellular data, then doubletap every wrong wifi ap until it gets the right one20:26
ShadowJKWhile on N900 I don't have to do anything at all :P20:26
HtheBIf they just do it as on the N9, I'm sure it will be much better20:26
HtheBShadowJK: which device?20:26
ShadowJKJolla for the first20:27
HtheBah yes20:27
HtheBI hope more poeple will vote for the idea to get this to work, so both parties will win (parties that loves it the way it is right now, and the parties that loves the way it was on n9)20:28
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HtheBStskeeps: found a bug :)20:34
HtheBdonno if its already been reported though :p20:35
HtheBTeamviewer shows as "com" and cant be run within sailfish app drawer20:36
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HtheBbut funny enough, if I run it within an android launcher, it DOES work20:36
ottuloHtheB: the android app, I suppose20:36
ottuloas it did the same for me20:36
HtheBottulo: run it from a launcher and it work :P20:37
ottulooh, how exactly?20:37
HtheBworks*20:37
HtheBjust download any launcher on an android store20:37
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AL13Npfff too many stuff on together20:41
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AL13NHtheB: i don't see it on http://together.jolla.com go ahead and report it + your findings20:43
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faenilHtheB, is the icon correct?20:44
HtheBfaenil: not within the sailfish appdrawer, but it is in the Launcher apps20:46
HtheBi mean hte android launchers, like Go Launcher20:46
HtheBottulo: did you tried it out?20:47
faenilHtheB, ok, so it's most likely a known issue ;) but report that on together, just to be sure20:47
HtheBhttps://together.jolla.com/question/8978/some-android-apps-doesnt-work-within-sailfish-app-drawer/20:47
ottuloHtheB: just installed launcher, now I need to get TW20:47
ottulowas trying to get launcher from Aptoide, but the connection keeps failing20:47
HtheBi see :)20:48
HtheBwhy not just getting it from the link I gave you?20:48
ottuloI did in the end :)20:49
ottulojust seemed like less typing to get from aptoide20:50
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HtheBjust uploaded teamviewer on the link I gave you by the way20:51
ottuloactually, I should check if I still have the apk... I don't think I deleted it yet20:51
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pdanekthose android apps are crap :P I'm gonna remove Android compatibility and be happy for each new native app :)20:58
HtheBpdanek: me too :)20:59
HtheBbut there is no Teamviewer app for Sailfish....20:59
HtheBNo banking app...20:59
HtheBwhen there is a native app is available, the android app will be gone yes :)20:59
ajalkaneHtheB: judging by javispedro's TMO post I will be happy when the android hacks in the kernel can be gotten rid of also. Might take a couple years I wager :P21:00
AL13Nmost of the android apps are filled with ads anyway21:01
AL13Nand there is little useful apps21:01
AL13Nthose app builders only create a need, by making apps, before smartphones people didn't go insane either21:02
ajalkaneNothing wrong with ads. Either buy full version or decide the apps not that useful anyway.21:03
HtheBajalkane: which tmo post?21:04
AL13Najalkane: that's my whole point :-)21:04
HtheBAL13N: just edit the host file :p21:05
ajalkaneHtheB: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1401940&postcount=2721:05
boilekimis sailfish proprietary?21:06
AL13NHtheB: no need, my LAN DNS server has some tweaks :-)21:06
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ajalkaneboilekim: partly21:06
HtheBAL13N: what about mobile data? :)21:06
HtheBajalkane: I actually didn't understand the post, can you explain in "normal english" what he means? :p21:07
boilekimajalkane: how so?21:07
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ajalkaneHtheB: read the last chapter21:07
HtheBdid21:07
ajalkaneboilekim: most of the user space and UI is closed source. Most of the middleware and base is open source21:08
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boilekimThanks!21:08
ajalkaneHtheB: I parsed it meaning that the Android hacks make it very hard to have a power efficient kernel without the "overzealous suspend", ie. multitasking apps when device is in screensaver mode21:09
AL13NHtheB: turned off by default21:09
AL13Ni use as much wifi as possible21:09
ajalkaneHtheB: granted, I might not have understood it correctly either, but that's what I got from it21:09
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AL13Najalkane: i got the same thing21:10
ajalkaneHtheB: my explanation might have been crap up there. The basic problem is that when device is suspended (ie. screen is off), the apps don't run (like in N9). And making them runnable is hard if you want good battery life, unless you get rid of the android hacks in kernel21:11
AL13Nit would be nice for multitasking to do it differently, but i guess that the android stuff would have to go21:11
ottuloHtheB: teamviewer works smooth throught the launcher, thanks!21:11
ottulo-t21:11
HtheBah I understand now ajalkane !21:11
HtheBottulo: heheh :D told you21:11
HtheBottulo: now vote: https://together.jolla.com/question/8978/some-android-apps-doesnt-work-within-sailfish-app-drawer/21:12
HtheBand also: https://together.jolla.com/question/8877/manually-select-internet-connection-legacy-option/21:12
HtheB:P21:12
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boilerkimajalkane: What user space is closed source? It uses Mer and Nemomobile for userspace and they are both GPLV2 compliant FOSS projects by Jolla engineers.21:54
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valdur55last coderus -22:00
valdur55lol :D22:00
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Quuwat22:08
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__pv_someone said that some of the jolla sailfish apps are in principle open source, but with no public repo currently but maybe coming one day (code currently available via snail mail). was this true/accurate?22:09
stephg__pv_ I can believe that22:09
stephgthings like the clock and calendar22:09
SpeedEvilAs far as I'm aware, the kernel hasn't yet been released22:10
SpeedEvilI last looked a week ago though22:10
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CraigAis there an fdisk binary compiled for sailfish/mer already?22:36
arceanSpeedEvil: you might find the kernel here https://github.com/KonstaT/sailfishos_kernel_jolla_msm893022:36
CraigAto format my memory card22:36
SpeedEvilInteresting, thanks.22:37
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Quuhuh? does konstaT work for jolla?22:39
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ln-hmm, what's going on, the screen stays on indefinitely even though i'm not touching anything.22:45
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ln-curious indeed, the screen won't turn off when i leave the phone in the home or launcher screen, but does turn off in lock screen.22:53
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FireFlyhuh.22:56
FireFlyln-: what about when you have an app open?22:56
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ln-doesn't turn off when an app is in the foreground either22:59
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FireFlyI want that bug! :p23:00
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onuratiCraigA: checked /sbin/fdisk yet?23:14
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* stephg burp23:22
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AL13Nln-: some kind of app wake_lock ?23:29
ln-for the record, the running apps are: fingerterm, settings, gallery, phone, clock, browser.23:30
AL13Nln-: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1401940&postcount=2723:30
AL13Ni don't have a jolla, i just remembered this... so it might be related23:31
AL13Ngtg to sleep though, ttyl23:31
specialln-: if you're curious, mcetool gives an overview of the display state settings.23:31
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ln-where's that?23:34
specialmce-tools23:36
tehdelysilly question... where in the init process is the hostname set?23:38
tehdelyi'd like to change the hostname of my device23:38
tehdelybut diddling /etc/sysconfig/network and rebooting did not do it23:38
tehdelyit's still localhost.localdomain...23:38
FireFlytehdely: write hostname to /etc/hostname23:38
stephgtehdely there be dragons here ;)23:39
ln-special: thanks.. everything it outputs seems normal to my eyes though. dim timeout: 30, autosuspend policy: enabled, etc.23:39
tehdelyFireFly: ok trying that23:39
tehdelybtw i have never had a phone boot up as fast as this jolla23:39
tehdelyit is v. impressive23:39
FireFlyhttps://together.jolla.com/question/323/dhcp-client-seems-to-send-localhost-as-hostname/23:39
tehdelyfrom logo to pin entry to home screen is crazy fast23:39
FireFlytehdely: ↑ (vote and) see answer23:39
tehdelyFireFly: worked, thanks!23:39
specialln-: tklock autoblank, blank inhibit, never blank, etc23:39
tehdelyhas anyone ported avahi btw23:40
FireFlyApparently it's getting fixed in a future update, luckily23:40
tehdelyi would loooooove mdns23:40
tehdelyso i could ssh tommy.local :)__~23:40
tehdelyi had some avahi binaries on my n9 that did an acceptable job23:40
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ln-special: autoblank policy: enabled, blank inhibit: disabled, never blank: disabled, power saving mode: disabled (inactive)23:41
specialnormal, then23:42
FireFly"Radio states: FM transmitter: disabled" :o?23:42
specialI guess you confused a state machine23:42
* FireFly eyes mcetool23:42
specialFireFly: don't get excited, mce was originally written for nokia's hardware23:42
FireFlyHehe, that's what I sorta guessed23:43
FireFlyOtherwise we'd probably have heard about it, if there was an FM transmitter in there23:43
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ln-anyway, i don't have time to debug this more until sunday, but i'll leave the phone on to not lose anything.23:45
tehdelythe n9 had an fm transmitter in it, but nothing was connected to the lead for the xmission antenna23:45
tehdelyi think it was some chip that handled multiple radios23:46
tehdelyi wonder if anyone ever hacked an antenna in...23:46
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FireFlyHm, interesting23:49
FireFlywith  mcetool -M unlock  the device wakes up to the home screen instead of the lock screen.  I guess I was pushing my luck when hoping for it to return to the last used application :p23:49
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pdanekDo you know if people are slowly porting all the fabulous games and emulators from Maemo?23:55
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specialpdanek: are you? :>23:57
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* stephg hope so, also, g'night!23:58
pdanekspecial: nah, I'm not programmer23:58
pdanekspecial: just silly sysadmin23:58
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