artemma | Aard: I don't know much about pkcon and version. So whats the right way? Or both? | 00:00 |
---|---|---|
Aard | artemma: 'version' is just a shellscript wrapping pkcon (amongst other things) | 00:00 |
artemma | okay, so if I want more logs, I better to run pkcon then | 00:01 |
Aard | pkcon get-updates should give a list, and do nothing else, while version --dup tells pkcon do do the update | 00:01 |
*** raa79 has joined #jollamobile | 00:01 | |
artemma | so which line? get-updates or get-distro-upgrades? or both? | 00:01 |
Aard | no, version --dup will give you a list of packages, but only _after_ it installed it | 00:01 |
Quu | always nice to have customer service at 2am | 00:02 |
Aard | version --dup does pkcon refresh; pkcon upgrade-system jolla-configuration-sbj complete (you get the idea why I did that shortcut? :p) | 00:02 |
artemma | yes, I am also excited about IRC support, many jolla and not jolla people helped me a lot here | 00:02 |
* artemma was always finding a striking contrast between IRC atmosphere and official Jolla comms to be honest | 00:03 | |
Quu | Aard: btw, if you want/need to take a look at my phone, i might have day off next week | 00:03 |
artemma | well, retrying version --dup then | 00:03 |
Quu | my job is bit retarded, they might call me 2h before work starts :p | 00:03 |
Aard | Quu: it'll be up to sage/stskeeps to decide that, they are doing the investigation into that issue | 00:04 |
Quu | ok :) | 00:04 |
*** raa70 has quit IRC | 00:05 | |
Nicd- | is there a new update?! | 00:07 |
Quu | no | 00:07 |
Aard | Nicd-: you need to wait a bit longer :) | 00:08 |
Quu | but we need everything now | 00:08 |
Nicd- | oh :( | 00:08 |
Nicd- | just read "artemma installed latest official firmware update" | 00:08 |
*** HarhaanJohtaja has quit IRC | 00:09 | |
artemma | Aard: version --dup completed and from the list I see only harbour apps updates | 00:09 |
artemma | no system updates | 00:09 |
Quu | yeah, were probably harbour apps here too | 00:09 |
artemma | so I basically updated all store apps | 00:09 |
*** hankeypancake has joined #jollamobile | 00:09 | |
Quu | atleast warehouse or whatever and mitakuuluu | 00:09 |
artemma | Including the downgrade of my wonderfull Flashlight with control-from-app-cover to the official version that shuts light off when you minimize the app :) | 00:10 |
Aard | artemma: ok, so at least we know that update didn't fail :) | 00:10 |
Morpog_ | artemma, I tried the app and it works as intended, though I guess I won't use it that much, as flicking through my 4 apps pages is still faster than launching and typing | 00:12 |
* artemma thinking on if quick launcher could read app list even faster… I can cache the app list | 00:13 | |
artemma | Morpog_: do you think it would influence if launcher was blazing fast? | 00:13 |
artemma | or the whole idea is clumsy? | 00:13 |
*** hankeypancake has quit IRC | 00:13 | |
TemeV | artemma: why don't you publish your apps at openrepos? | 00:14 |
* artemma wants fast track for his apps… I mean for very useful apps from devs that are known to submit high quality code :) | 00:14 | |
Morpog_ | the idea is not bad, just not for every user out there | 00:14 |
Morpog_ | with more apps and screens it could be great for some users | 00:15 |
artemma | Morpog_: that's what I am trying to understand. What's the use case and why it doesn't match yours | 00:15 |
artemma | just windering | 00:15 |
Morpog_ | although with folder support sometime in future it could be less needed | 00:15 |
*** Natunen has quit IRC | 00:15 | |
* artemma notices for himself, that milliseconds matter. If it was two times faster, maybe I would use it more myself | 00:15 | |
Morpog_ | launching an app quickly is the use case | 00:15 |
Morpog_ | flicking though my well ordered app grid is faster for me | 00:16 |
artemma | so swiping and looking for you is faster than launcher and typing, got it. Now the question is what could be speeded up if anything. | 00:16 |
*** winfriedd has quit IRC | 00:16 | |
Morpog_ | integration into jolla launcher, but you cannot do that :) | 00:16 |
artemma | like the launching itself can be speeded up for sure, but typing on a keyboard is still typing on a keyboard | 00:16 |
artemma | true, there are no widgets for home screen | 00:17 |
TemeV | with vkb anything that requires typing is slow and clumsy | 00:17 |
artemma | hmm, cover page can contain any qml, TextEdit too possibly :) | 00:17 |
Morpog_ | so, as I said, it may be a great app for other users | 00:17 |
Morpog_ | like with messy grid with unordered apps and lots of apps installed | 00:17 |
*** raignarok has quit IRC | 00:18 | |
artemma | TemeV: I don't want to care about openrepos support. I am only motivated to do harbour-compatible stuff anyway | 00:18 |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 00:18 | |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 00:18 | |
TemeV | openrepos is just faster way to publish apps | 00:19 |
artemma | hmm, flashlight with cover control could go to openrepos actually while I am figuring out the proper way to do it for harbout | 00:19 |
*** meShell has quit IRC | 00:19 | |
artemma | TemeV: few days don't matter, extra headache from synchronization and support do | 00:19 |
artemma | when I want to get immediate satisfaction kick few days before harbour, I can get it by posting link here and on twitter | 00:20 |
Morpog_ | openrepos has stats too btw ;) | 00:20 |
artemma | and I actually get more then from openrepos this way as bit.ly provides stats, openrepos to my understanding doesn't | 00:20 |
artemma | ah, ok, didn't realize it | 00:21 |
*** Tofe is now known as Tofe|Away | 00:22 | |
TemeV | ok | 00:22 |
*** raignarok has joined #jollamobile | 00:23 | |
artemma | Hey, there's MeeCast available on OpenRepos! | 00:31 |
* artemma went to try it | 00:31 | |
Quu | didnt even work here | 00:32 |
TemeV | MeeCast for Jolla? Why it is not JoCast or SailCast? :) | 00:32 |
Quu | did not load any weather info | 00:32 |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 00:32 | |
Quu | tried couple diffrent cities in diffrent continents | 00:32 |
artemma | Quu: tried clicking check for updates? | 00:34 |
Quu | yes | 00:34 |
artemma | works for weather.com and Helsinki for me | 00:34 |
Quu | didnt say anything | 00:34 |
artemma | looking at the forecast is depressing though | 00:35 |
Quu | seems like using it disconnects wlan | 00:35 |
Morpog_ | quu there is an update for that bug in openrepos | 00:35 |
Quu | ok, letssee | 00:35 |
Morpog_ | you need to delete all citys after update | 00:36 |
Quu | i have latest version | 00:36 |
TemeV | yr.no and tampere seems to work ok | 00:37 |
Quu | need to try to update when im sober :p | 00:37 |
TemeV | it even promises quite decent weather | 00:37 |
TemeV | "about" is the first thing at the pulley menu | 00:39 |
TemeV | I'm not sure if that is the most important thing... :) | 00:39 |
TemeV | there is no icon for meecast | 00:41 |
TemeV | is just me or do you have the same bug? | 00:41 |
*** Morpog_Mobile_ has quit IRC | 00:43 | |
*** master_o1_master has joined #jollamobile | 00:43 | |
Quu | on launcher? | 00:44 |
Quu | i have icon | 00:45 |
TemeV | you had installed same earlier version? | 00:47 |
TemeV | *some | 00:47 |
Quu | maybe | 00:47 |
Quu | not sure | 00:47 |
*** master_of_master has quit IRC | 00:47 | |
Quu | no, probably not | 00:49 |
* artemma reads bad comments about android apps in store again. IMO it's really not about Android, but about quality of Android support on Jolla. Android apps on BB10 are just fine, because they are almost like native ones. Android on Jolla.. often doesn't even start if you happen to have both Browser and Maps running. No surprise people want less of this poor experience | 00:50 | |
*** xtr3m3 has quit IRC | 00:51 | |
*** xtr3m3 has joined #jollamobile | 00:52 | |
*** AlmAck has quit IRC | 00:56 | |
*** arcean has quit IRC | 01:03 | |
SpeedEvil | On a related matter. | 01:16 |
*** Zetro has quit IRC | 01:16 | |
SpeedEvil | Is there any way to make an android app more 'jolla compatible' - or is it forever going to be different. | 01:16 |
*** Zetro has joined #jollamobile | 01:17 | |
*** fuz_ has quit IRC | 01:20 | |
*** oskari has quit IRC | 01:29 | |
*** fuz_ has joined #jollamobile | 01:35 | |
*** phdeswer has quit IRC | 01:38 | |
*** TSCHAKMac_ has joined #jollamobile | 01:39 | |
*** hadara_ has joined #jollamobile | 01:39 | |
*** phlixi_ has joined #jollamobile | 01:39 | |
*** hadara has quit IRC | 01:39 | |
*** Morpog_ has quit IRC | 01:39 | |
*** phlixi has quit IRC | 01:41 | |
*** opuk has quit IRC | 01:41 | |
*** opuk has joined #jollamobile | 01:41 | |
*** TSCHAKMac has quit IRC | 01:42 | |
*** TSCHAKMac_ is now known as TSCHAKMac | 01:42 | |
*** qqK has quit IRC | 01:46 | |
*** phdeswer has joined #jollamobile | 01:50 | |
*** Morpog_Mobile has joined #jollamobile | 01:58 | |
javispedro | I have no problems with Android programs | 01:59 |
javispedro | in fact, I once realized that I had hit some bug where I could not slide out the aliendalvik window... | 02:00 |
javispedro | and didn't realize until after a few minutes.... | 02:00 |
* javispedro finds that very worrying. | 02:00 | |
*** Morpog_Mobile_ has joined #jollamobile | 02:03 | |
*** Morpog_Mobile has quit IRC | 02:05 | |
*** Morpog_Jolla has quit IRC | 02:05 | |
*** pinheiro has quit IRC | 02:10 | |
*** artemma has quit IRC | 02:10 | |
*** wickwire has quit IRC | 02:14 | |
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC | 02:18 | |
*** dafox has quit IRC | 02:24 | |
*** Morpog_Mobile_ has quit IRC | 02:28 | |
*** mk2soldier has joined #jollamobile | 02:53 | |
*** softmetz has joined #jollamobile | 02:58 | |
*** KaIRC has quit IRC | 02:58 | |
*** softmetz_ has quit IRC | 03:01 | |
*** javispedro has quit IRC | 03:02 | |
*** crapper has quit IRC | 03:10 | |
*** Eztran has quit IRC | 03:17 | |
*** balta has quit IRC | 03:17 | |
*** wirew0rm has joined #jollamobile | 03:22 | |
*** mk2soldier has quit IRC | 03:29 | |
*** Morpog_Mobile has joined #jollamobile | 03:29 | |
*** planasb has quit IRC | 03:36 | |
*** planasb has joined #jollamobile | 03:43 | |
*** order has joined #jollamobile | 03:48 | |
*** RomAbptTHN has joined #jollamobile | 03:59 | |
*** RomAbptTHN has left #jollamobile | 03:59 | |
*** hankeypancake has joined #jollamobile | 04:11 | |
*** Morpog_Mobile has quit IRC | 04:12 | |
*** mjones has quit IRC | 04:15 | |
*** hankeypancake has quit IRC | 04:16 | |
*** the_mgt_ has joined #jollamobile | 04:37 | |
*** bef0rd has joined #jollamobile | 04:40 | |
*** the_mgt has quit IRC | 04:41 | |
*** the_mgt_ is now known as the_mgt | 04:41 | |
*** alight has joined #jollamobile | 04:52 | |
*** Elleo has quit IRC | 04:53 | |
*** Morpog_Mobile has joined #jollamobile | 04:58 | |
*** BeholdMyGlory has quit IRC | 05:03 | |
*** furikku has joined #jollamobile | 05:06 | |
*** samikshan has joined #jollamobile | 05:11 | |
*** alight has quit IRC | 05:22 | |
*** Custodian has joined #jollamobile | 05:31 | |
*** zIWYIiWPIS has joined #jollamobile | 05:32 | |
*** zIWYIiWPIS has left #jollamobile | 05:32 | |
*** triggerhappy has joined #jollamobile | 05:39 | |
*** raignarok has quit IRC | 05:53 | |
*** ttyS3 has joined #jollamobile | 05:56 | |
*** raignarok has joined #jollamobile | 05:57 | |
*** orsonmmz has quit IRC | 05:58 | |
*** mjones has joined #jollamobile | 06:14 | |
*** phinaliumz has joined #jollamobile | 06:17 | |
*** pdanek has quit IRC | 06:31 | |
*** HylianSavior has quit IRC | 06:38 | |
*** itbaron has joined #jollamobile | 06:58 | |
*** Froberg^ has joined #jollamobile | 07:22 | |
*** mivaho_ has joined #jollamobile | 07:24 | |
*** Natunen has joined #jollamobile | 07:24 | |
*** pi2 has joined #jollamobile | 07:25 | |
*** Froberg has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** dazo_afk has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** raa79 has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** Hartzi has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** Firnwath has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** svuorela has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** deuss has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** rokka has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** till has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** stn^ has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** gigetoo has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** sharpneli has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** grinsekatze has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** atlaz has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** osaton has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** part has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** aloril has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** Tm_T has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** namtab has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** Kharn has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** thauta has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** Oni^ has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** micko_ has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** niko_s has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** hene- has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** Pantti has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** Acce has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** AJAX555 has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
*** sharpneli has joined #jollamobile | 07:25 | |
*** phinaliumz has quit IRC | 07:26 | |
*** Sarvi has quit IRC | 07:26 | |
*** walokra has quit IRC | 07:26 | |
*** CraigA has quit IRC | 07:26 | |
*** mivaho has quit IRC | 07:26 | |
*** tj____ has quit IRC | 07:26 | |
*** junnuvi has quit IRC | 07:26 | |
*** tabasko has quit IRC | 07:26 | |
*** kavuri has quit IRC | 07:26 | |
*** lipi has quit IRC | 07:26 | |
*** skvark has quit IRC | 07:26 | |
*** tme has quit IRC | 07:26 | |
*** nepaa has quit IRC | 07:26 | |
*** zorb_ has quit IRC | 07:26 | |
*** osaton has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** micko_ has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** grinsekatze has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** nepaa has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** grinsekatze has quit IRC | 07:26 | |
*** grinsekatze has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** CraigA has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** tj____ has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** lipi has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** Acce has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** zorb_ has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** tme has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** raa79 has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** deuss has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** Hartzi has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** svuorela has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** Firnwath has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** jaapo has quit IRC | 07:26 | |
*** svuorela has quit IRC | 07:26 | |
*** svuorela has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** iaira has quit IRC | 07:26 | |
*** jaapo has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** dazo_afk has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** rokka has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** part has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** hene- has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** till has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** iaira has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** dazo_afk is now known as dazo | 07:26 | |
*** thauta has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** gigetoo has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** namtab has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** atlaz has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** walokra has joined #jollamobile | 07:26 | |
*** Pantti has joined #jollamobile | 07:27 | |
*** Oni^ has joined #jollamobile | 07:27 | |
*** Tm_T has joined #jollamobile | 07:27 | |
*** Kharn has joined #jollamobile | 07:27 | |
*** tabasko has joined #jollamobile | 07:27 | |
*** kavuri has joined #jollamobile | 07:27 | |
*** skvark has joined #jollamobile | 07:27 | |
*** junnuvi has joined #jollamobile | 07:27 | |
*** dazo has quit IRC | 07:27 | |
*** dazo has joined #jollamobile | 07:27 | |
*** dazo is now known as Guest17603 | 07:27 | |
*** AJAX555 has joined #jollamobile | 07:27 | |
*** aloril has joined #jollamobile | 07:28 | |
*** Sarvi has joined #jollamobile | 07:30 | |
*** niko_s has joined #jollamobile | 07:37 | |
*** phinaliumz has joined #jollamobile | 07:37 | |
*** cb400f has joined #jollamobile | 07:38 | |
*** cb400f has joined #jollamobile | 07:38 | |
*** motalb has quit IRC | 07:48 | |
*** motalb has joined #jollamobile | 07:50 | |
*** opuk has quit IRC | 08:12 | |
*** opuk has joined #jollamobile | 08:12 | |
*** hankeypancake has joined #jollamobile | 08:13 | |
*** NIN101 has joined #jollamobile | 08:14 | |
*** hankeypancake has quit IRC | 08:16 | |
flux | well, running >1 android app at the same time in jolla isn't a very jolla-like experience | 08:24 |
flux | I think there's potential in faking it :) | 08:25 |
flux | but actually that's my only problem with the android support.. (barring bugs and unsupported features) | 08:25 |
* tbr managed to reduce his need for android apps to g+ and ingress, everything else I have native replacements for. | 08:27 | |
Quu | eww g+ :p | 08:29 |
Nicd- | G+ is nice, the worst part is that they don't have an API | 08:30 |
* tbr likes it for the embedded linux crowd hanging out there | 08:30 | |
*** matoking has joined #jollamobile | 08:31 | |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 08:33 | |
AL13N | i'm new to QML, i have a page with a ListView ( a model) and a page with ListDetail... how can i, in the ListDetail page, access the ListModel (or at least the current item?) | 08:40 |
tbr | #sailfishos | 08:41 |
AL13N | tbr: i crossposted, cause noone answers =-( | 08:41 |
AL13N | trouble finding the correct examples / documentation | 08:41 |
AL13N | too bad the settings isn't open source, i could've peeked how it worked | 08:42 |
mikma | i wonder what's the future with WhatsApp | 08:42 |
tbr | what about the component gallery? | 08:42 |
Nicd- | how so? | 08:42 |
Nicd- | mikma | 08:42 |
AL13N | tbr: component gallery? | 08:43 |
tbr | the one that's installed in the SDK emulator | 08:43 |
mikma | nicd-: mitäkuuluu developement has been halted and whatsapp doesn't work that well (yet) on jolla | 08:43 |
AL13N | ah... er... well, i don't have the SDK installed, i'm doing qml on the phone | 08:43 |
Nicd- | mikma: halted? | 08:44 |
Quu | https://openrepos.net/content/coderus/mitakuuluu | 08:44 |
mikma | nicd-: yeap. http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1400694&postcount=1 | 08:45 |
Nicd- | well he says it's halted until sync fixed so apparently not halted forever | 08:47 |
mikma | what i heard it's because of whatsapp's end | 08:47 |
Quu | maybe whatsapp blocked it? :) | 08:47 |
Nicd- | that's how I understood it | 08:48 |
Nicd- | I think whatsapp changed their sync API and it's not working in any other client either or something | 08:48 |
Quu | probably | 08:48 |
Quu | but could just be that they blocked everything else | 08:48 |
mikma | wouldn't be a problem if the original app would work | 08:49 |
mikma | but oh well.. atleast facepalm works well | 08:50 |
tbr | AL13N: I think it's sailfish-components-gallery-qt5 - but it might not have a launcher button | 08:50 |
*** meShell has joined #jollamobile | 08:51 | |
*** KangOl has joined #jollamobile | 08:52 | |
mikma | also, mitäkuuluu does constantly drop it's status to "connecting" on me | 08:53 |
*** Pat_o has joined #jollamobile | 08:53 | |
Nicd- | it works quite fine on my phone | 08:54 |
Stskeeps | apis are probably the best lockdown i've ever seen | 08:54 |
Stskeeps | :P | 08:54 |
Nicd- | haven't had any problems with connections | 08:54 |
Nicd- | hope coderus continues development sometime though, I paid for this app :D | 08:55 |
mikma | that's ... horrible | 08:55 |
meShell | had the connection problem, too with mitäkuuluu, when coming home and so switching to wlan | 08:55 |
mikma | oh | 08:55 |
mikma | that might actually be the reason | 08:56 |
Nicd- | mikma? | 08:56 |
mikma | nicd-: supporting someone of doing something cool and then he stops | 08:56 |
Quu | mikma: i also have connection drops | 08:57 |
Nicd- | mikma: well, it's a donation vs actually buying | 08:57 |
mikma | quu: meshell has a good point, i did leave my home yesterday, and connected to another wifi too before i came back home. | 08:58 |
mikma | stop touching me, nicd- | 08:58 |
mikma | ;) | 08:58 |
Trizt | Nicd-: not really, many bought applications has been discontinued too leaving the buyers totally unable to get security fixes | 08:59 |
Quu | like windows xp. | 08:59 |
mikma | and like android | 08:59 |
tbr | they fixed a resource hog bug on winxp the other day. ;) | 08:59 |
Nicd- | mikma: shhh | 09:00 |
Nicd- | Quu: well, they did support windows xp for over 10 years | 09:00 |
mikma | nicd-: latest stable irssi btw | 09:00 |
Nicd- | mikma: was just going to say you don't have to type out everyone's name :P | 09:00 |
mikma | nicd-: ni <tab> true | 09:01 |
Quu | mikma pls, use tabcomplete | 09:02 |
mikma | Unknown command: tabcomplete | 09:03 |
mikma | oh man :I | 09:03 |
Quu | oh god. | 09:03 |
Nicd- | mikma: so you know. just looks a little odd with everyone's nick in lowercase :P | 09:04 |
*** Quu is now known as QUU | 09:04 | |
QUU | is this better? :p | 09:04 |
mikma | quu: doesn't change a thing :D | 09:04 |
mikma | nicd-: yeah i have a setting that actually lowercases the tabcomplete | 09:05 |
QUU | eww | 09:05 |
QUU | why | 09:05 |
*** QUU is now known as Quu | 09:05 | |
mikma | because people have full uppercase nicks and i hate them :D | 09:05 |
Quu | hating people is ok, but you need to proper english mate | 09:06 |
Nicd- | mikma: ah | 09:06 |
*** clau has joined #jollamobile | 09:06 | |
*** clau has quit IRC | 09:06 | |
*** clau has joined #jollamobile | 09:06 | |
mikma | it's ok, i'm not english so i can make mistakes all i want! there's always some grammarnazi that corrects people | 09:06 |
*** Pat_o has quit IRC | 09:10 | |
*** oskari has joined #jollamobile | 09:13 | |
*** alcasa has joined #jollamobile | 09:13 | |
*** PeperJohnny has joined #jollamobile | 09:14 | |
*** patinux has quit IRC | 09:20 | |
*** attah has joined #jollamobile | 09:20 | |
*** patinux has joined #jollamobile | 09:21 | |
*** edgar2 has joined #jollamobile | 09:21 | |
*** Pat_o has joined #jollamobile | 09:22 | |
*** pvanhoof has joined #jollamobile | 09:23 | |
*** patinux has quit IRC | 09:24 | |
*** patinux has joined #jollamobile | 09:24 | |
*** ttyS3 has quit IRC | 09:26 | |
*** alcasa has left #jollamobile | 09:35 | |
*** clau has quit IRC | 09:39 | |
*** Pat_o has quit IRC | 09:41 | |
*** fk_lx has joined #jollamobile | 09:45 | |
*** Pat_o has joined #jollamobile | 09:53 | |
*** dafox has joined #jollamobile | 09:53 | |
*** Morpog_Mobile has quit IRC | 09:54 | |
*** dafox is now known as Guest51131 | 09:54 | |
*** fuz_ has quit IRC | 09:55 | |
*** NIN102 has joined #jollamobile | 09:57 | |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 09:58 | |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 09:58 | |
*** NIN101 has quit IRC | 09:59 | |
*** AmAH has joined #jollamobile | 09:59 | |
*** fuz_ has joined #jollamobile | 10:00 | |
*** frafra has joined #jollamobile | 10:02 | |
AL13N | arg, why is everything on my QML page pasted on top of eachother instead of neatly in rows | 10:02 |
*** AmAH_ has quit IRC | 10:03 | |
AL13N | anyone here did some of their own app building? | 10:04 |
*** eijk_ has joined #jollamobile | 10:05 | |
*** AmAH has quit IRC | 10:10 | |
*** AmAH has joined #jollamobile | 10:12 | |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 10:16 | |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 10:16 | |
*** samikshan has quit IRC | 10:17 | |
*** Morpog_Mobile has joined #jollamobile | 10:18 | |
*** KaIRC has joined #jollamobile | 10:18 | |
entil | AL13N: I have an app in development, though I've been down with a fever for most of the week so it's been slow | 10:18 |
entil | but I can't really help with qml, it seemed as hard as html and css, or harder, and I really don't know why that is | 10:19 |
entil | for some reason it's easier to visualize an algorithm than figure out how to put graphical elements in reasonable places | 10:19 |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 10:28 | |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 10:28 | |
*** spider-mario has joined #jollamobile | 10:34 | |
*** ewalker has joined #jollamobile | 10:34 | |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 10:34 | |
*** artemma has joined #jollamobile | 10:34 | |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 10:34 | |
AL13N | entil: i found out some stuff | 10:37 |
AL13N | i'm gonna post this someplace | 10:37 |
*** louisdk has joined #jollamobile | 10:39 | |
*** KangOl has quit IRC | 10:40 | |
*** qqK has joined #jollamobile | 10:41 | |
*** mbs1337 has joined #jollamobile | 10:43 | |
*** artemma has quit IRC | 10:46 | |
*** Jonuz has quit IRC | 10:47 | |
*** Jonuz has joined #jollamobile | 10:47 | |
*** eleroux has joined #jollamobile | 10:52 | |
*** KangOl has joined #jollamobile | 10:52 | |
*** ewalker has quit IRC | 10:52 | |
*** alien_ has joined #jollamobile | 10:58 | |
*** artemma has joined #jollamobile | 11:02 | |
*** Tujutzki has joined #jollamobile | 11:10 | |
*** samikshan has joined #jollamobile | 11:10 | |
*** mbs1337 has quit IRC | 11:11 | |
*** mk2soldier has joined #jollamobile | 11:17 | |
*** friese has joined #jollamobile | 11:18 | |
*** nickg__ has joined #jollamobile | 11:24 | |
*** meShell has quit IRC | 11:34 | |
*** Frye has quit IRC | 11:34 | |
*** Frye has joined #jollamobile | 11:34 | |
Stskeeps | artemma: you still have shutdowns, btw? | 11:35 |
artemma | Stskeeps: yes, and I have a long pending todo item to send you some crash logs with comments | 11:35 |
Stskeeps | ok | 11:36 |
artemma | got some 100+ by now. | 11:36 |
Stskeeps | and it's every time uncontrolled, as in, no notifications or red LED? | 11:36 |
artemma | typical number of shutdowns while traveling: 5-20 a day. Typical number in hme invironment 1-3 | 11:36 |
Stskeeps | where do you travel through and do you often dump to 2g onlky? | 11:36 |
artemma | Stskeeps: hard to say, I don't watch it and it often happens in the pocket, so I notice it when I take phone out of it | 11:36 |
Stskeeps | ok | 11:36 |
artemma | yeah, both 3G and WiFi | 11:37 |
artemma | had very similar picture with SaintPeterburg 3G and Ukrainian 2G | 11:37 |
artemma | what seems to be a trigger is a network activity soon after hand over | 11:37 |
artemma | regardless of whether it's mobile data or wifi activity | 11:38 |
artemma | hence it happens a lot on traveling | 11:38 |
artemma | interestingly thing that seems to crash most often is some audio server | 11:38 |
Stskeeps | yeah, that's the android stuff, no surprise there | 11:38 |
artemma | android? | 11:38 |
Stskeeps | yeah | 11:38 |
Stskeeps | but unrelated to this issue | 11:38 |
artemma | Most annoying things I had was cycled shutdowns | 11:39 |
artemma | phone shuts down, I turn it back in, enter pin code, some 2-5 sec later it shuts down again. The cycle repeats | 11:39 |
Stskeeps | as in trying hard to boot up? | 11:39 |
Stskeeps | nod | 11:39 |
Nicd- | I had issues booting after a shutdown | 11:40 |
artemma | Once I was trying to check in in a movie theater so the situation continued for an hour at least :) | 11:40 |
artemma | then it fixed itself without any reason obvious to me | 11:40 |
Nicd- | when I pressed the power button, the phone vibrated and the jolla screen came up, then it went black, jolla screen came up again with red LED, then it shut down | 11:40 |
Nicd- | this happened 4 or 5 times | 11:40 |
artemma | hmm.. maybe I exited the theater room and got to good connection area? | 11:40 |
Nicd- | when I tried to boot it | 11:40 |
Stskeeps | artemma: can you grab me the contents of /var/lib/upower/ ? | 11:44 |
Stskeeps | those might be very interesting | 11:44 |
Stskeeps | Quu: you too | 11:44 |
Quu | wut | 11:44 |
artemma | Stskeeps, will do tonight | 11:44 |
Quu | tar em or what? | 11:44 |
Stskeeps | yeah | 11:44 |
artemma | running out now | 11:44 |
Stskeeps | it has full logs of battery levels | 11:44 |
Stskeeps | it seems | 11:44 |
Stskeeps | (thanks thp ) | 11:44 |
*** dunp has quit IRC | 11:45 | |
*** dunp has joined #jollamobile | 11:46 | |
*** onurati has joined #jollamobile | 11:47 | |
*** planasb has quit IRC | 11:48 | |
*** XenGi has quit IRC | 11:51 | |
*** triggerhappy has quit IRC | 11:52 | |
*** XeN has joined #jollamobile | 11:52 | |
*** XeN is now known as XenGi | 11:53 | |
*** triggerhappy has joined #jollamobile | 11:53 | |
*** planasb has joined #jollamobile | 11:53 | |
*** mk2soldier has quit IRC | 11:55 | |
*** mk2soldier has joined #jollamobile | 11:55 | |
*** Morpog_Jolla has joined #jollamobile | 11:56 | |
*** Morpog_Jolla has quit IRC | 12:03 | |
*** raa79 has quit IRC | 12:04 | |
*** jjarven has quit IRC | 12:10 | |
*** _xtr3m3 has joined #jollamobile | 12:12 | |
*** M4rtinK has joined #jollamobile | 12:13 | |
*** artemma has quit IRC | 12:13 | |
*** _al_ has joined #jollamobile | 12:14 | |
*** onurati has quit IRC | 12:15 | |
*** pdanek has joined #jollamobile | 12:15 | |
*** xtr3m3 has quit IRC | 12:15 | |
*** Guest51131 has quit IRC | 12:17 | |
*** b0rkb0rk has quit IRC | 12:20 | |
*** louisdk has quit IRC | 12:21 | |
*** jjarven has joined #jollamobile | 12:27 | |
*** AlmAck has joined #jollamobile | 12:27 | |
*** thessy has joined #jollamobile | 12:33 | |
*** BeholdMyGlory has joined #jollamobile | 12:33 | |
*** mkpaa has quit IRC | 12:34 | |
*** mkpaa has joined #jollamobile | 12:34 | |
*** eijk_ has quit IRC | 12:41 | |
*** dafox has joined #jollamobile | 12:50 | |
*** jubo2 has joined #jollamobile | 12:50 | |
*** samikshan has quit IRC | 12:51 | |
*** Froberg^ has quit IRC | 13:04 | |
*** Froberg has joined #jollamobile | 13:05 | |
*** Morpog_PC has joined #jollamobile | 13:06 | |
*** fk_lx has quit IRC | 13:08 | |
*** clau has joined #jollamobile | 13:08 | |
*** nickg__ has quit IRC | 13:09 | |
*** alight has joined #jollamobile | 13:16 | |
*** alien_ has quit IRC | 13:17 | |
*** alien_ has joined #jollamobile | 13:18 | |
*** RzR has quit IRC | 13:18 | |
*** RzR has joined #jollamobile | 13:19 | |
*** matoking has quit IRC | 13:25 | |
*** thessy has left #jollamobile | 13:29 | |
*** NIN102 has quit IRC | 13:33 | |
*** NIN102 has joined #jollamobile | 13:34 | |
*** pinheiro has joined #jollamobile | 13:36 | |
*** KangOl has quit IRC | 13:37 | |
*** Zotan has joined #jollamobile | 13:40 | |
*** KangOl has joined #jollamobile | 13:40 | |
*** TSCHAKMac has quit IRC | 13:41 | |
*** XenGi has quit IRC | 13:46 | |
*** XeN has joined #jollamobile | 13:46 | |
*** fk_lx has joined #jollamobile | 13:46 | |
*** XeN is now known as XenGi | 13:49 | |
*** piggz has joined #jollamobile | 13:55 | |
*** kkszysiu has quit IRC | 13:56 | |
*** kkszysiu has joined #jollamobile | 13:57 | |
*** planasb has quit IRC | 13:59 | |
*** planasb has joined #jollamobile | 14:05 | |
*** pdanek1 has joined #jollamobile | 14:08 | |
*** pdanek has quit IRC | 14:09 | |
*** Plnt has quit IRC | 14:12 | |
*** spider-mario has quit IRC | 14:12 | |
*** ericcc has joined #jollamobile | 14:14 | |
*** mk2soldi_ has joined #jollamobile | 14:16 | |
*** mk2soldier has quit IRC | 14:19 | |
*** Tujutzki has quit IRC | 14:20 | |
*** KangOl has quit IRC | 14:20 | |
*** PaulePanter has joined #jollamobile | 14:22 | |
*** KangOl has joined #jollamobile | 14:22 | |
*** Zotan has quit IRC | 14:23 | |
*** javispedro has joined #jollamobile | 14:24 | |
AL13N | i got the strangest thing | 14:26 |
AL13N | between the battery level and the 3G icon, i got a small green bar... what does it do/signify??? | 14:27 |
AL13N | never seen this before | 14:27 |
PeperJohnny | It appears if you're online on a chat client like facebook | 14:27 |
AL13N | oic | 14:27 |
AL13N | that could be it | 14:27 |
AL13N | btw: if you have a SIM without data | 14:28 |
AL13N | but i'm still seeing 3G | 14:28 |
AL13N | that's a bit odd | 14:28 |
PeperJohnny | You could change your status to not avaible and it would turn to orange | 14:28 |
AL13N | (also, i'm unable to actually call or be called) | 14:28 |
PeperJohnny | AL13N: strange indeed | 14:28 |
AL13N | internet is checked off in the settings too | 14:28 |
AL13N | but still 3G keeps appearing | 14:28 |
Stskeeps | 3g is voice too | 14:29 |
AL13N | is this normal? | 14:29 |
AL13N | oic | 14:29 |
AL13N | i didn't know | 14:29 |
javispedro | heh | 14:29 |
AL13N | Stskeeps: about not being able to call or be called, any idea how to debug this? | 14:29 |
AL13N | Stskeeps: the ISP has a webpage that gives call history, and calls are appearing there, but a bit odd | 14:29 |
AL13N | Stskeeps: +32485XXXXXX appears like 32c4899485XXXXXX | 14:30 |
AL13N | Stskeeps: are there some kind of country dialer settings that need to be set? | 14:30 |
AL13N | (or unset?) | 14:30 |
javispedro | AL13N: do the other calls there appear using the +CCNNNNNN syntax? | 14:31 |
Stskeeps | that does not sound healthy.. | 14:31 |
AL13N | javispedro: the old phone did have it listed as +CCNNNNNNN | 14:31 |
AL13N | next to it is a categorisation and it says that this is "premium voice service" | 14:32 |
AL13N | which is normally 3XXX | 14:32 |
*** Elleo has joined #jollamobile | 14:32 | |
AL13N | now, the journalctl -f does show +CCNNNNNN numbers | 14:33 |
AL13N | when i dial | 14:33 |
AL13N | and since i didn't call/use that sim for over a month, i'm not 100% certain that this is not the ISP's fault | 14:34 |
*** Tujutzki has joined #jollamobile | 14:34 | |
AL13N | but, contacts and all works well | 14:34 |
AL13N | Stskeeps: any idea on debugging this? or should i email care@ ? | 14:34 |
Stskeeps | AL13N: first off, don't ask on a sunday :) | 14:34 |
AL13N | i don't want to bother them, if it's not necesary | 14:34 |
AL13N | heh | 14:34 |
AL13N | Stskeeps: tbh, i already asked yesterday :-) | 14:35 |
AL13N | but noone was here at the time | 14:35 |
Stskeeps | saturday... | 14:35 |
Stskeeps | :P | 14:35 |
AL13N | yes, i know | 14:35 |
AL13N | but i had to recover phone contacts from old phone first, so i got that done saturday | 14:35 |
faenil | anyone with hw experience here? | 14:35 |
javispedro | what are those "saturdays" and "sundays" you mention? can you actually skip doing work during those days? | 14:36 |
AL13N | faenil: TOH hw or phone hw or embedded hw? | 14:36 |
AL13N | javispedro: haha | 14:36 |
Stskeeps | javispedro: it was a big mistake that people told me what weekend was. | 14:36 |
AL13N | lol | 14:36 |
AL13N | Stskeeps: you discover weekend when you have babies :-) | 14:37 |
faenil | AL13N, about loudspeakers | 14:37 |
faenil | phone ones | 14:37 |
*** pinheiro has quit IRC | 14:37 | |
AL13N | sorry, only about surround sets and regular headphone | 14:38 |
faenil | oki, I want to do some experiment, but don't know to what exchange I can replace the loudspeaker of a phone with the loudspeaker from another phone | 14:38 |
faenil | s/exchange/extent/ | 14:39 |
*** pinheiro has joined #jollamobile | 14:42 | |
AL13N | yes | 14:45 |
AL13N | the plugs are either 3 or 4 and they are all the same | 14:45 |
AL13N | besides loudspeakers in general are replacable, you only need to be aware about oversteering sound if a loudspeaker has an internal amplifier | 14:46 |
AL13N | can be any speaker in general | 14:46 |
faenil | AL13N, awesome, that's what I was hoping :) | 14:47 |
AL13N | even if it doesn't work well, (as long as you don't oversteer sound, it doesn't matter, so you just need to set low volume before testing | 14:47 |
faenil | AL13N, though I don't know about the packages in phones...it's a problem even if they have a flex on the wrong side, for instance :D | 14:48 |
AL13N | a speaker is no more than 2 wires and a magnetic coil | 14:48 |
AL13N | packages? | 14:48 |
faenil | AL13N, you know, when they're assembled in phones they usually have tiny shells or something | 14:49 |
faenil | custom stuff | 14:49 |
AL13N | in speakers there's no real polarity | 14:50 |
AL13N | only for the common grnd is there a few components | 14:50 |
AL13N | in any case, if you keep volume low-ish, you can just plug it in without issue to both phone and speaker | 14:51 |
AL13N | Stskeeps: no idea on debugging dialer? i did email dialplan provider, but unsure where the problem is... | 14:53 |
AL13N | in the mean time, i'm working on a systemd UI with qml :-) | 14:54 |
AL13N | and i'm gonna try some kind of PoC with dbus connections and security | 14:54 |
faenil | AL13N, I meant also plastic shells, not "functional" shells | 14:56 |
*** dbringer has joined #jollamobile | 14:56 | |
faenil | I mean, if you want to replace the speaker it has to fit :p | 14:56 |
*** meShell has joined #jollamobile | 14:56 | |
faenil | I don't if the sizes are all the same | 14:56 |
AL13N | oic | 14:56 |
AL13N | ah, then you're fine | 14:56 |
AL13N | but check the Ohm of the speaker | 14:57 |
AL13N | they should be similar | 14:57 |
AL13N | but speakers come in various sizes, if they don't fit, then you're screwed :-) | 14:57 |
faenil | AL13N, it's not like you can have tech sheet about phone speakers :p | 14:57 |
AL13N | why not? | 14:58 |
faenil | yeah that's the problem :p | 14:58 |
faenil | AL13N, because there doesn't seem to be a "model" they all have codes on top of them | 14:58 |
AL13N | ask the shell company about the white papers | 14:58 |
faenil | which bring you nowhere | 14:58 |
faenil | at least google brings you nowhere | 14:58 |
faenil | ah yeah ok, got to ask the manufacturer | 14:58 |
AL13N | or at least the speaker specifications | 14:58 |
AL13N | though i'm pretty sure there's a few common sizes | 14:59 |
AL13N | people in an electronics shop also might now | 14:59 |
faenil | AL13N, yeah it would be cool find some info about that | 15:00 |
AL13N | often they have various whitpapers that aren't otherwise available | 15:00 |
faenil | mm you say? about phones speakers? | 15:00 |
faenil | okay | 15:00 |
AL13N | well, not any electronics shop | 15:00 |
AL13N | but not far from where i live there is one, that can make a pci board if you bring your designs | 15:00 |
AL13N | and they can help you with the design, or you can order a design that does something specific | 15:01 |
AL13N | those people will know :-) | 15:01 |
faenil | AL13N, ah yeah indeed...haven't seen anything like that :D | 15:01 |
AL13N | not that many of those around, but there are | 15:02 |
Kiranos_ | If there is an account associated with ***@****.com you will receive an email with a link to reset your password. | 15:02 |
AL13N | they are the shops where you can get any kind of component | 15:02 |
Kiranos_ | ugh | 15:02 |
AL13N | like resistors and stuff | 15:02 |
Kiranos_ | if there is? db check and tell me if there is or not,.. | 15:02 |
AL13N | Kiranos_: that sounds like a security feature | 15:03 |
faenil | AL13N, the issue is I'm an electronic n00b | 15:03 |
Kiranos_ | AL13N: for what? | 15:03 |
AL13N | faenil: Aard is someone who might know more than me, (or knows someone that knows more than him) | 15:03 |
AL13N | Kiranos_: for bruteforce email mining | 15:03 |
*** louisdk has joined #jollamobile | 15:05 | |
*** mikhas has joined #jollamobile | 15:10 | |
petantik | A preventative measure. | 15:11 |
*** dbringer has quit IRC | 15:16 | |
clau | AL13N, 3G is not reserved for data connections. | 15:22 |
*** onurati has joined #jollamobile | 15:24 | |
*** f00barbaz has joined #jollamobile | 15:24 | |
clau | in Romania there's a provider that works exclusively over 3G, afaik. | 15:25 |
*** mk2soldier has joined #jollamobile | 15:27 | |
*** mk2soldi_ has quit IRC | 15:27 | |
*** dbringer has joined #jollamobile | 15:27 | |
clau | nevermind... I just noticed Stskeeps already answered your concern. | 15:28 |
*** Morpog_Jolla has joined #jollamobile | 15:30 | |
*** triggerhappy has quit IRC | 15:33 | |
*** nsuffys has joined #jollamobile | 15:34 | |
*** KangOl has quit IRC | 15:35 | |
*** mk2soldier has quit IRC | 15:36 | |
*** mk2soldier has joined #jollamobile | 15:37 | |
*** ortylp has joined #jollamobile | 15:42 | |
*** mk2soldier has quit IRC | 15:45 | |
*** mk2soldi_ has joined #jollamobile | 15:45 | |
*** bef0rd has quit IRC | 15:48 | |
*** bef0rd has joined #jollamobile | 15:49 | |
*** dhbiker has joined #jollamobile | 15:53 | |
*** bef0rd has quit IRC | 15:53 | |
*** KangOl has joined #jollamobile | 15:53 | |
*** arcean has joined #jollamobile | 15:53 | |
*** order has quit IRC | 15:55 | |
*** mbs1337 has joined #jollamobile | 16:01 | |
*** samikshan has joined #jollamobile | 16:01 | |
*** ortylp has quit IRC | 16:02 | |
AL13N | clau: though that may be true, the sim i have is old and should not have any data, let alone work over 3G | 16:02 |
AL13N | though i donno if that's related... | 16:03 |
AL13N | ah well, i never saw this before, but that may not have been visible in a "real" phone | 16:03 |
AL13N | btw: anyone know if i can run the SDK in a KVM ? | 16:04 |
AL13N | i wonder if i could convert the builder to kvm and just use my native kdevelop for the C code | 16:05 |
*** Zotan has joined #jollamobile | 16:05 | |
AL13N | now that my QML is mostly ok (tested on phone), i kinda need do use some C++ | 16:05 |
mornfall | AL13N: Most likely, yes. | 16:05 |
*** datagutt has quit IRC | 16:06 | |
AL13N | to file the datamodel | 16:06 |
AL13N | *fill | 16:06 |
*** Eztran has joined #jollamobile | 16:06 | |
tbr | AL13N: yes, just qemu-convert the vbox image | 16:06 |
AL13N | i wonder if i could subclass the listmodel for something that fetches the data ondemand from dbus | 16:06 |
tbr | AL13N: you'll have to figure out the homedir mapping yourself though, as that relies on vbox shared folders | 16:06 |
tbr | prolly nfs or such | 16:07 |
*** datagutt has joined #jollamobile | 16:07 | |
AL13N | tbr: i just need it to build C++ code to armv7hf | 16:07 |
mornfall | AL13N: you can build on the phone btw. :) | 16:07 |
AL13N | mornfall: for real? | 16:07 |
AL13N | hmm | 16:07 |
mornfall | sure, I built dnsmasq on it | 16:07 |
mornfall | after having a fight with the SDK | 16:07 |
mornfall | (which I lost) | 16:08 |
AL13N | mornfall: :-) | 16:08 |
AL13N | mornfall: is there some kind of task-* package for building? | 16:08 |
tbr | it's not as slow as it used to be, but it's not lightning fast | 16:08 |
mornfall | AL13N: no idea, I just pkcon installed rpm-build and a toolchain | 16:08 |
AL13N | ok, thanks for the info | 16:08 |
*** nickg__ has joined #jollamobile | 16:08 | |
tbr | there's likely a package group | 16:08 |
mornfall | not sure about Qt, but that's probably around somewhere too | 16:08 |
mornfall | it's faster than my ARM NAS, that's for sure | 16:09 |
AL13N | first i'm gonna try and add a systemd service file for openvpn... need to check if this is mer or nemo | 16:09 |
mornfall | hah, I already have that :D | 16:11 |
AL13N | mornfall: i was gonna used the multiservice one from Mageia | 16:12 |
*** Tofe|Away is now known as Tofe | 16:12 | |
AL13N | so that you have openvpn@config1.service | 16:12 |
mornfall | ok, I just cobbled together a custom unit | 16:12 |
AL13N | etc.. | 16:12 |
mornfall | with a hardcoded config file | 16:12 |
AL13N | cause i have multiple ones | 16:12 |
mornfall | connman is a lost cause as far as DNS goes so I had to hook up dnsmasq into the thing | 16:12 |
AL13N | btw: what's the way of getting this upstreamed? should i email a patch? or fork with pull-requests? or? | 16:12 |
AL13N | mornfall: it seems that connman doesn't get my DNS from ipv6 | 16:13 |
AL13N | mornfall: i'm also working on a systemd UI :-) | 16:13 |
mornfall | :-) | 16:13 |
AL13N | but i'm new on all of this | 16:14 |
* mornfall too | 16:14 | |
*** Morpog_Jolla has quit IRC | 16:14 | |
AL13N | i got the qml for systemd, but now i need to get the dbus calls for systemd stuff | 16:14 |
mornfall | you most likely want to check out mer | 16:14 |
mornfall | for things like openvpn | 16:14 |
mornfall | and systemd | 16:14 |
AL13N | i found this: http://gitweb.merproject.org/gitweb?p=mer-core/openvpn.git;a=summary | 16:14 |
AL13N | but | 16:14 |
AL13N | no idea how to contribute | 16:14 |
*** Eztran has quit IRC | 16:14 | |
AL13N | Stskeeps: should know, since i'm seeing his contributions... | 16:15 |
AL13N | Stskeeps: how do i get a mer account for the git? | 16:15 |
Stskeeps | log in with google account | 16:15 |
*** hankeypancake has joined #jollamobile | 16:16 | |
AL13N | ... | 16:16 |
* AL13N sighs | 16:16 | |
mornfall | AL13N: apparently you want to create an account on bugs.merproject.org | 16:16 |
Stskeeps | not for the git stuff | 16:17 |
Stskeeps | :P | 16:17 |
mornfall | the wiki is "great" | 16:18 |
mornfall | doesn't tell you a thing | 16:18 |
tbr | it's a wiki, fix it | 16:18 |
*** attah has quit IRC | 16:19 | |
*** Eztran has joined #jollamobile | 16:20 | |
*** hankeypancake has quit IRC | 16:20 | |
AL13N | Stskeeps: doesn't jolla have a openID provider too? or isn't that connected? | 16:26 |
*** meShell has quit IRC | 16:29 | |
mornfall | tbr: great idea, only the info that's not there is not there... how would I learn it? | 16:29 |
mornfall | AL13N: anyway, you can always create BZs with patches I guess | 16:30 |
*** cvp has joined #jollamobile | 16:32 | |
clau | AL13N, maybe this helps too: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Contribution_in_detail | 16:38 |
tbr | mornfall: I thought you had figured out some things already? | 16:39 |
Bysmyyr | change picture | 16:40 |
*** Venemo has joined #jollamobile | 16:40 | |
Bysmyyr | aa, sorry, | 16:40 |
Bysmyyr | wrong time, noce answer about 20h ago | 16:40 |
*** CandyCoder has joined #jollamobile | 16:41 | |
*** phdeswer has quit IRC | 16:42 | |
*** disharmonic has joined #jollamobile | 16:43 | |
*** CoderCandy has quit IRC | 16:44 | |
*** CandyCoder is now known as CoderCandy | 16:44 | |
*** CoderCandy has joined #jollamobile | 16:44 | |
AL13N | clau: already read it and done it | 16:44 |
*** HarhaanJohtaja has joined #jollamobile | 16:44 | |
*** onurati has quit IRC | 16:45 | |
clau | damn... it appears I'm way too slow today :) | 16:45 |
*** clau has quit IRC | 16:49 | |
AL13N | :-) | 16:53 |
*** ericcc has quit IRC | 16:56 | |
AL13N | Stskeeps: should i let the openvpn service be wanted post-user-session, or pre-user-session ? | 16:57 |
AL13N | or maybe i should keep openvpn on demand | 16:57 |
Stskeeps | well, neither, on demand | 16:57 |
AL13N | ok | 16:57 |
mornfall | what does on demand mean in this context? | 16:57 |
AL13N | it means someone need to find a UI to start the systemd service for openvpn | 16:58 |
AL13N | (which i'm working on) | 16:58 |
AL13N | and it doesn't start at boot time | 16:58 |
AL13N | or should i say services | 16:58 |
AL13N | since i'm doing the multiconfig services | 16:58 |
AL13N | so that if you have 4 openvpn configs, you have 4 systemd services you can start/stop independantly | 16:59 |
mornfall | well, you'll need a gui to make it start with the system too, then | 16:59 |
AL13N | heh | 16:59 |
mornfall | do you also plan to tackle DNS? | 16:59 |
AL13N | mornfall: i'm just doing the basic stuff for mer | 16:59 |
AL13N | the openvpn config is SEP | 16:59 |
AL13N | Someone Else's Problem | 17:00 |
mornfall | so connman is not part of mer? | 17:00 |
AL13N | yes | 17:00 |
AL13N | connman is | 17:00 |
AL13N | but, as i said,... SEP | 17:00 |
AL13N | i just need the systemd services for myself | 17:00 |
mornfall | I'm wondering how anyone uses a VPN without DNS. | 17:01 |
pdanek1 | Did anyone had an issue of webpage in default web browser shaking when scrolling it down? | 17:01 |
pdanek1 | After restart of browser, it disappeared | 17:01 |
pdanek1 | Very strange bug. | 17:01 |
AL13N | mornfall: VPN isn't always redirect-gateway | 17:01 |
slate | pdanek1: seen that once | 17:01 |
mornfall | AL13N: what's a redirect-gateway? | 17:02 |
Stskeeps | pdanek1: yes, reproduced today | 17:02 |
AL13N | mornfall: most often,it's just to log in at work or whatnot | 17:02 |
mornfall | I mean, usually the VPN has a nameserver for stuff in the VPN. | 17:02 |
pdanek1 | Stskeeps: how do you reproduce it? I didn't | 17:02 |
Stskeeps | pdanek1: well, as in, it happened to me too | 17:02 |
AL13N | mornfall: as i said, you can put this in the config | 17:02 |
AL13N | but config is not my problem, i'm just copying it | 17:02 |
mornfall | how? | 17:03 |
AL13N | mornfall: by reading the openvpn documentation :-) | 17:03 |
AL13N | (you can push DNS options) | 17:03 |
mornfall | push, sure, but the client-side openvpn needs to do something about those | 17:03 |
mornfall | normally it'd drop them into /etc/resolv.conf or somesuch | 17:04 |
mornfall | but AFAIUI, that'd set you on a collision course with connman which has a DNS proxy in it and writes "nameserver 127.0.0.1" over resolv.conf | 17:06 |
mornfall | the other "obvious" thing would be to talk to connman to add nameservers to its internal list, but that's something I didn't work out how to do from the sparse docs it has | 17:07 |
mornfall | documentation mentions fallback DNS servers which don't seem to work at all, there's one mention of "global" nameservers but I didn't find how those work... there's a per-service way to set nameservers, but it's kinda destructive | 17:09 |
mornfall | seems that if you manage to update the nameservers between the connection coming up and DHCP filling you up, connman throws away the DHCP ones... basically, the only way I could get it to work was to use a hardcoded nameserver for the Internet (4.2.2.2) | 17:10 |
*** HylianSavior has joined #jollamobile | 17:10 | |
*** onurati has joined #jollamobile | 17:11 | |
mornfall | there's also connman-vpnd which will probably conflict with your openvpn service, but which can only do routed VPNs | 17:13 |
mornfall | (for whatever reason, all my VPNs are bridged) | 17:13 |
Stskeeps | mornfall: you sound like somebody who actually understands connman..? | 17:14 |
mornfall | not really | 17:15 |
mornfall | I did a little studying on it, and a little reverse engineering | 17:16 |
*** stephg has quit IRC | 17:17 | |
mornfall | you can install connman-test and check out /usr/lib/connman/test/ (list-services, get-services; there's some docs on connman.net, but not much) | 17:18 |
Stskeeps | :nod: | 17:18 |
*** jjarven has quit IRC | 17:20 | |
Venemo | how do I initiate a contacts sync on the jolla? | 17:21 |
slate | activesync? | 17:21 |
Venemo | no, google | 17:21 |
*** mbs1337 has quit IRC | 17:22 | |
*** FlameReaper has quit IRC | 17:22 | |
slate | got mailsync on? | 17:22 |
slate | My contacts did not update if mailsync was off and contacts on | 17:22 |
slate | with activesync though | 17:22 |
Venemo | I got everything on, yes | 17:22 |
pdanek1 | Stskeeps: Will be new update any time soon? | 17:23 |
Venemo | pdanek1: yes | 17:23 |
mornfall | Venemo: when is soon? :-) | 17:23 |
Quu | https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time | 17:24 |
Quu | about 2 years | 17:24 |
Venemo | heh | 17:24 |
slate | dont know if carddav is supported with gmail contacts sync? Sine google dropped activesync support. | 17:24 |
slate | since* | 17:24 |
mornfall | heh, I just got "system update available" ... too bad it's 1.0.2.5 again | 17:26 |
*** npm has quit IRC | 17:30 | |
*** krnlyng has quit IRC | 17:35 | |
*** bef0rd has joined #jollamobile | 17:36 | |
*** mohjive has joined #jollamobile | 17:38 | |
*** jjarven has joined #jollamobile | 17:43 | |
*** igor_b has joined #jollamobile | 17:44 | |
*** tanghus_ has quit IRC | 17:47 | |
Venemo | AL13N: ping | 17:57 |
Venemo | mornfall, pdanek1: 1 update / month is promised, so I expect one in january, and there's only 12 days left of january | 17:58 |
Pnuu | 12 days could still be considered "almost half" ;-) | 17:59 |
Venemo | :P | 17:59 |
Pnuu | and I think it was a target that there'd be an update per month | 17:59 |
suosaaski | if it is an average... how many updates have there been for the past 2 months or so that the device has been out? 4? | 18:00 |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 18:00 | |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 18:00 | |
*** attah has joined #jollamobile | 18:01 | |
Venemo | suosaaski: don't be so pessimistic, man | 18:02 |
Venemo | I expect at least a bugfix release | 18:02 |
suosaaski | Venemo: pessimistic? :) | 18:02 |
Venemo | suosaaski: I hope it's not an average :P | 18:02 |
*** PeperJohnny has quit IRC | 18:03 | |
suosaaski | also perhaps not set in stone, as in some updates might take a bit longer and some shorter. | 18:03 |
Venemo | I just want to have all the bugfixes they made since christmas | 18:05 |
Venemo | nothing more | 18:05 |
suosaaski | ...if there is any :P | 18:05 |
*** mohjive has quit IRC | 18:05 | |
slate | suosaaski: mr. negative. | 18:06 |
slate | ;) | 18:06 |
suosaaski | :D | 18:07 |
smokex | from christmas to new years they didn't work on anything guaranteed unless they were bored and decided to at home | 18:11 |
smokex | but since then I bet they've been burning the midnight oil | 18:12 |
slate | Is it Jolla-people or Myriad Group people who update the alien-dalvik side in sailfish? | 18:13 |
*** rulli has quit IRC | 18:13 | |
*** wickwire has joined #jollamobile | 18:14 | |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 18:15 | |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 18:16 | |
Aard | slate: define 'update' | 18:20 |
Venemo | suosaaski: I actually saw a bunch in the Nemo github ;) | 18:20 |
Venemo | hey Aard :) | 18:20 |
Aard | hey Venemo | 18:20 |
Venemo | Aard: interested in the beta release of the IRC client? | 18:21 |
slate | Aard: develop | 18:21 |
slate | Fix thing, add features etc. | 18:21 |
Aard | slate: they do what we tell them to do | 18:21 |
slate | Aard: okey, so basically its outsourced | 18:22 |
Aard | yes | 18:23 |
*** phinaliumz has quit IRC | 18:24 | |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 18:25 | |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 18:26 | |
*** Kilroo has quit IRC | 18:27 | |
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC | 18:33 | |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 18:36 | |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 18:36 | |
*** AardFish has joined #jollamobile | 18:40 | |
*** Kilroo has joined #jollamobile | 18:40 | |
*** jreznik_ has joined #jollamobile | 18:44 | |
AL13N | hmm, i'm not having any luck finding the screen sources for mer or are they someplace else? | 18:45 |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 18:46 | |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 18:46 | |
AL13N | Venemo: pong | 18:46 |
Venemo | AL13N: now I can say with 100% sureness that I'm going to FOSDEM | 18:46 |
AL13N | :-) | 18:46 |
AL13N | pass by the Mageia stand/booth | 18:47 |
AL13N | i'll likely be there | 18:47 |
Venemo | AL13N: have you seen this? https://together.jolla.com/question/11303/are-you-going-to-fosdem-2014-irl-floss-meeting-in-belgium/ | 18:47 |
AL13N | yes | 18:47 |
Venemo | great :) | 18:47 |
AL13N | i put a comment in there | 18:47 |
faenil | he replied already | 18:47 |
faenil | yeah :) | 18:47 |
AL13N | i didn't think answers would be used, i felt comments would be better :-) | 18:47 |
AL13N | ah well | 18:48 |
*** raignarok has quit IRC | 18:48 | |
AL13N | i'm trying to find out how screen did the tmpfiles conversion for the openvpn package, but i don't see the screen in the mer git | 18:48 |
Waitee | hmm | 18:49 |
Waitee | first sim connection error | 18:49 |
AL13N | ah, github nemo-pacakges | 18:50 |
* AL13N sighs | 18:50 | |
*** raignarok has joined #jollamobile | 18:51 | |
*** MSameer has quit IRC | 18:51 | |
*** MSameer has joined #jollamobile | 18:51 | |
*** mk2soldi_ is now known as mk2soldier | 18:55 | |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 18:56 | |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 18:56 | |
*** krnlyng has joined #jollamobile | 18:59 | |
*** furikku has quit IRC | 19:00 | |
*** artemma has joined #jollamobile | 19:04 | |
*** Kabouik has joined #jollamobile | 19:05 | |
*** clau has joined #jollamobile | 19:05 | |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:06 | |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 19:06 | |
*** Plnt has joined #jollamobile | 19:08 | |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:11 | |
mikhas | Venemo, AL13N, booked FOSDEM last week ;-) | 19:11 |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 19:11 | |
Venemo | mikhas: great :) | 19:12 |
mikhas | but I have to confess … I did put my SIM card back into my N9 =/ | 19:12 |
slate | mikhas: which features u get more with n9? | 19:13 |
mikhas | ah, where to start | 19:14 |
mikhas | let's just say that the N9 appears more polished? | 19:15 |
slate | hw-wise? | 19:15 |
*** Tujutzki has quit IRC | 19:15 | |
mikhas | you could also say that I simply got *too* used to it | 19:15 |
mikhas | sw-wise | 19:15 |
mornfall | I guess I'm lucky to never have owned N9 (jumped directly from N900). | 19:16 |
clau | which is the most important feature that you don't have currently on Jolla? | 19:16 |
slate | Harmattan is out from beta. ;) | 19:16 |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:16 | |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 19:16 | |
svuorela | mikhas: I have actually considered the same :/ - maybe just because I got too used to it. | 19:17 |
mikhas | ok, for instance battery life | 19:18 |
clau | tbh, N9 still attracts me too. | 19:18 |
mikhas | my n9 after 2.5 years is still doing better than the jolla phone | 19:19 |
clau | mikhas, have you disabled tohd.service on jolla? | 19:19 |
mikhas | I read about it, I don't care | 19:19 |
slate | I could go back to n900 if it had capacitive touch. | 19:19 |
mikhas | I bought a product ;-) | 19:19 |
clau | Battery-wise Jolla seems to deal much better with 3G. | 19:19 |
pdanek1 | slate: I actually liked display on N900 more than on Jolla | 19:19 |
pdanek1 | the resistive one | 19:19 |
slate | ugh, looks and feels 90ish | 19:19 |
clau | on N9 battery was really bad with 3G, so I had to switch to 2G/2.5G. | 19:20 |
slate | Battery did not last a day for me with N9. Activesync on. | 19:20 |
mikhas | but I have to apologize … I didn't want to start a silly discussion on things we don't like about the first Jolla device | 19:20 |
clau | mikhas, after disabling tohd.service, the battery is better than N9 for my use cases. | 19:20 |
slate | I like the ui, android support and the camera. | 19:21 |
slate | On jolla. | 19:21 |
slate | Lets turn this conversation. :) | 19:21 |
Pnuu | I don't even need android support anymore | 19:21 |
mikhas | slate, ;-) | 19:21 |
mornfall | well, I guess the update is long time coming... | 19:21 |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:21 | |
mornfall | with the number of high-profile bugs... | 19:21 |
clau | Well, beyond the small bugs which I'm sure will be fixed soon, my biggest issue is the security. And for this reason I can't say I would recommend it to a casual user. | 19:21 |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 19:22 | |
Venemo | clau: security of what? | 19:22 |
clau | Sailfish, in general. | 19:22 |
mornfall | clau: see #sailfishos an hour ago :-) | 19:23 |
clau | is there a log? | 19:23 |
clau | I was offline. | 19:23 |
clau | or, maybe you can tell me about it in a few words? :) | 19:23 |
mornfall | well, we are at the mercy of application developers | 19:24 |
*** nibbler has quit IRC | 19:24 | |
mornfall | there's no security at all, and root escalation is trivial | 19:24 |
clau | I do know, I was one of the people who brought it up | 19:25 |
clau | anything that runs under user nemo can use pkcon to do whatever | 19:25 |
clau | but this can be easily fixed; not sure what else it would break though | 19:26 |
*** nibbler has joined #jollamobile | 19:26 | |
clau | one bug in Warehouse app (from openrepos) resulted in someone uninstalling the Phone app by mistake. | 19:26 |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:26 | |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 19:27 | |
mornfall | classy | 19:27 |
*** phlixi_ has quit IRC | 19:27 | |
clau | but, as I said, this is probably easy to fix | 19:27 |
mornfall | but I don't see an easy fix actually | 19:27 |
clau | you can limit access to pkcon by group, instead of user | 19:27 |
mikhas | so perhaps AEGIS wasn't so bad? | 19:27 |
mikhas | SCNR ;-) | 19:27 |
* mikhas runs | 19:27 | |
clau | aegis went a tad too far IMO | 19:27 |
clau | it looked more like DRM than security for user | 19:28 |
clau | besides this pkcon issue, I would like to see app isolation | 19:28 |
clau | each app running under it's own user | 19:28 |
mornfall | yeah, that's another thing and much more serious | 19:28 |
mornfall | root escalation is a concern when someone would want to brick your device | 19:29 |
clau | in fact, it's probably not that difficult either | 19:29 |
clau | linux already offers this stuff | 19:29 |
mikhas | clau, you mean proper sandboxing? | 19:29 |
*** AardFish has quit IRC | 19:29 | |
mornfall | well, we are probably talking man-years of work even with selinux, apparmor, etc. around | 19:29 |
mikhas | well systemd is already there, that's a start | 19:29 |
mikhas | (to make it possible) | 19:29 |
clau | nah | 19:29 |
clau | it'd be nice to have more, but even running apps under different users would do it | 19:30 |
*** M4rtinK has joined #jollamobile | 19:30 | |
Custodian | as technology, aegis is great. bad was nokia attitude about creating limited origins ;) | 19:30 |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:30 | |
clau | and give access to resources based on groups | 19:30 |
clau | in fact, if you look in /etc/group you will see there are plenty of groups already | 19:30 |
clau | so probably someone already started work on that | 19:30 |
slate | aegis is awesome for a normal user. | 19:30 |
mikhas | Custodian, cant complain, the origin overrides worked fine for me =p | 19:31 |
mikhas | slate, that's the point | 19:31 |
*** nibbler has quit IRC | 19:31 | |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 19:31 | |
mikhas | do you design your product for experts or for consumer joe? | 19:31 |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:31 | |
Custodian | if you can create unrestructed origins, aegis also great for developer. | 19:31 |
*** nibbler has joined #jollamobile | 19:31 | |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 19:32 | |
mikhas | that's why on principle, where I see myself as a consumer joe, I won't kill a service to increase battery life. It's a hack. | 19:32 |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:32 | |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 19:32 | |
slate | How about tinfoil? "hehe" | 19:32 |
mikhas | I specifically aim for the consumer joe experience, if that makes any sense | 19:32 |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 19:33 | |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 19:33 | |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 19:33 | |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 19:33 | |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:34 | |
clau | well, in all honesty... the only real reason why I would switch back to N9 is security. | 19:34 |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 19:34 | |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:34 | |
clau | and sadly this will take a lot of time to get fixed :( | 19:35 |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 19:35 | |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:35 | |
*** NIN102 has quit IRC | 19:35 | |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 19:35 | |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:36 | |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 19:36 | |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:36 | |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 19:36 | |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:37 | |
clau | Btw, in case you missed it: account passwords are stored in clear text. | 19:37 |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 19:37 | |
mornfall | clau: dunno, groups can get you somewhere, but how do you restrict network access? | 19:37 |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:38 | |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 19:38 | |
clau | that's the last problem to solve | 19:38 |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:38 | |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 19:38 | |
clau | if the flashlight doesn't have access to address book, emails, etc etc... having network access is not as dangerous anyway. | 19:38 |
AL13N | i plan to do a small PoC with an app running under a different user, dbus service, policykit and probably a QML accessor that uses the DBUS but is similar to what devs are used to | 19:39 |
clau | or at least as far as I am concerned. | 19:39 |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:39 | |
* javispedro doesn't get why people want more sandboxing on an embedded device than on a desktop | 19:39 | |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 19:39 | |
*** piggz has quit IRC | 19:39 | |
AL13N | javispedro: because of proprietary stuff | 19:39 |
clau | javispedro, I don't want more. I already have a lot on desktop. | 19:39 |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 19:39 | |
AL13N | javispedro: on a phone you tend to install stuff that you usually wouldn't | 19:39 |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 19:40 | |
AL13N | javispedro: also, if this PoC works, there's actually more features wrt to inter-app functionality | 19:40 |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 19:40 | |
clau | I currently run software that uses internet in light vms (freebsd jail) | 19:40 |
AL13N | while still keeping everything safe | 19:40 |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 19:40 | |
slate | My desktop doesn't do stuff without asking. | 19:40 |
javispedro | clau: you can do the same in Sailfish then.. for now. When a official sandboxing policy is made, then who knows if you'd be able to override it. | 19:41 |
AL13N | javispedro: also, even though the jolla QA team is great, they are bound to miss something (humans make errors after all) | 19:41 |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 19:41 | |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 19:41 | |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:41 | |
*** spider-mario has joined #jollamobile | 19:41 | |
clau | javispedro, can I? | 19:41 |
AL13N | javispedro: well, at least i'm gonna try, if it's doable, at least it serves as an example as how jolla can integrate it | 19:41 |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 19:41 | |
javispedro | clau: build kernel, use lxc, whatever you want. | 19:42 |
*** NIN101 has joined #jollamobile | 19:42 | |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:42 | |
clau | javispedro, I propose Jolla does it then :) | 19:42 |
javispedro | personally, I use way more programs from way more different authors on my desktop than on my "Jolla" | 19:42 |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 19:42 | |
mornfall | AL13N: there's basically no way humans can assess safety of binary blobs | 19:42 |
javispedro | and... I have much more important data on my desktop than on my Jolla | 19:42 |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:42 | |
mornfall | AL13N: it's already too tricky with sources | 19:42 |
javispedro | replace Jolla with any other mobile/embedded device I control | 19:43 |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 19:43 | |
clau | what OS are you using on desktop javispedro ? | 19:43 |
AL13N | mornfall: well, there's the corporate structure, which is contracts, liability assesments, external audits, etc... | 19:43 |
javispedro | clau: Gentoo atm. | 19:43 |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:43 | |
clau | so, it's a distro with tradition | 19:43 |
AL13N | or more importantly, who is taking the blame | 19:43 |
clau | and you compile software from source | 19:43 |
mornfall | AL13N: right, but you can submit apps as a completely anonymous internet user | 19:43 |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 19:43 | |
clau | which, if I recall, you get safely. | 19:43 |
AL13N | mornfall: of course | 19:43 |
AL13N | this is why i want to have some sort of sandboxing | 19:44 |
clau | how does it compare to installing closed source apps from shady sources (sometimes), over unsafe connections? | 19:44 |
AL13N | mornfall: you're preaching to the choir | 19:44 |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:44 | |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 19:44 | |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 19:44 | |
*** FlameReaper has joined #jollamobile | 19:44 | |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 19:44 | |
clau | I recall Jolla was supposed to be the no-NSA device. | 19:45 |
javispedro | clau: why do you assume that I don't have closed source programs? or that my connection is safe, or that the sources are even not shady? | 19:45 |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 19:45 | |
mornfall | AL13N: sorry :) I wish we'd hear from Jolla on the topic, though. | 19:45 |
clau | well, currently NSA would have very little trouble in screwing my device entirely. | 19:45 |
AL13N | i want something that is safe, customizable, extendable without any work, something that also allows more (if wanted) and is easy to used for devs | 19:45 |
AL13N | mornfall: well, rainisto didn't want it | 19:45 |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 19:45 | |
AL13N | mornfall: of course, that's only one person | 19:45 |
clau | a remote exploit in the browser, and I'm done. | 19:45 |
clau | and browsers are notorious for how buggy they are. | 19:45 |
javispedro | Qualcomm hardware will never be NSA-free. | 19:45 |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 19:46 | |
Pnuu | NSA might already be inside the qualcomm chip :-P | 19:46 |
clau | awesome. | 19:46 |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 19:46 | |
AL13N | well, it does depend on the phone network | 19:46 |
AL13N | but yeah | 19:46 |
mornfall | Pnuu: it can do very little harm from inside the chip, SW-wise | 19:46 |
clau | just don't go to US with Jolla :D | 19:46 |
AL13N | what phone network doesn't NSA have access to | 19:46 |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 19:46 | |
clau | mornfall, if it has read access to memory... well, I'm sure you can figure it out :) | 19:46 |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 19:46 | |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 19:47 | |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 19:47 | |
mornfall | clau: the chip still has to work, and we are talking enormous amount of code that'd be needed to efficiently snoop on your data | 19:47 |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 19:47 | |
*** phlixi has joined #jollamobile | 19:47 | |
mornfall | compared to what can be spared in terms of silicon anyway | 19:48 |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 19:48 | |
clau | what if it leaks your encryption key? | 19:48 |
clau | say, if you use pgp | 19:48 |
mornfall | baseband is another matter, but you already sign on to towers so it's not much of a difference | 19:48 |
clau | or openvpn | 19:48 |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 19:48 | |
*** sarkh has joined #jollamobile | 19:48 | |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 19:48 | |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 19:49 | |
*** louisdk has quit IRC | 19:49 | |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 19:49 | |
mornfall | clau: you still need substantial infrastructure to get that key out, even if you knew when and where to look for it | 19:49 |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 19:49 | |
*** edgar2 has quit IRC | 19:49 | |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 19:49 | |
clau | I do not know the low level details, so I can't comment much about it | 19:49 |
AL13N | mornfall: i'm willing to bet that they have substantial expertise and procedures in that area | 19:50 |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 19:50 | |
AL13N | mornfall: after all, it's not like they haven't done that before, right? | 19:50 |
clau | but I think you underestimate what can be done | 19:50 |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 19:50 | |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 19:50 | |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 19:51 | |
mornfall | clau: you could do something if you could run the support software on the network side | 19:51 |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 19:51 | |
mornfall | clau: getting out a radio packet from the CPU might be just about doable | 19:51 |
*** rulli has joined #jollamobile | 19:51 | |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 19:51 | |
AL13N | haha, between all the systemd services, i found a "ngfd.service": "New Girl Friend Daemon" ? | 19:51 |
mornfall | but the towers would need to recognize that and cooperate | 19:51 |
Venemo | AL13N: ngf = non-grafical feedback | 19:52 |
javispedro | AL13N: vibrator stuff | 19:52 |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 19:52 | |
AL13N | lol | 19:52 |
AL13N | it even fits :-) | 19:52 |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 19:52 | |
clau | hahahaha | 19:52 |
Pnuu | :-D | 19:52 |
mornfall | problem is you'd need substantial stego otherwise the first kid would figure out the radio packets | 19:52 |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 19:52 | |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 19:53 | |
AL13N | mornfall: if the attack is from the mobile data (which is logical since they control alot of telco's already), then you're screwed | 19:53 |
mornfall | and so on... it's far from easy, even for a big adversary | 19:53 |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 19:53 | |
clau | there's another important thing though: if they care about you so much as to target you directly, you are probably in deep troubles anyway | 19:53 |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 19:53 | |
AL13N | clau: didn't you follow that thing where they need 3 hops from a known terrorist | 19:53 |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:54 | |
mornfall | right, add 6 degrees of separation on top | 19:54 |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 19:54 | |
AL13N | 1 such terrorist (including telcos as hops) would give > 3 million people | 19:54 |
clau | :) | 19:54 |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:54 | |
AL13N | and there are > 30000 known terrorists | 19:54 |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 19:54 | |
AL13N | (and this is only about US citizens, because the rest is free play anyway, they don't count) | 19:54 |
mornfall | makes you wonder if they still count Nelson Mandela for the purpose of NSA spying :-) | 19:55 |
AL13N | probably | 19:55 |
Yaniel | I don't think they need to :D | 19:55 |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 19:55 | |
*** nodevel has quit IRC | 19:55 | |
AL13N | they didn't say that the hops need to be alive | 19:55 |
clau | anyway, I think the discussion about security went to extremes... NSA is not your only problem. | 19:55 |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 19:55 | |
*** FlameReaper has quit IRC | 19:56 | |
mornfall | AL13N: anyway, what'd you mean "attack from mobile data"? | 19:56 |
*** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 19:56 | |
mornfall | clau: it's not even your biggest problem :) | 19:56 |
Stskeeps | ndvl: fix your connection? | 19:56 |
AL13N | mornfall: well, if you're using your phone with a sim card, the phone company has quite some access to your device | 19:56 |
clau | mornfall, as I stated before, there is just one important thing that needs to be done: isolate native apps. | 19:56 |
mornfall | AL13N: you can probably assume that baseband will happily tell them all it knows | 19:57 |
clau | also, the pkcon craziness must be fixed soon, obviously. :) | 19:57 |
AL13N | but yes, otherwise one app just gets all the facebook data and runs off with it | 19:57 |
*** pi2 is now known as stn^ | 19:57 | |
Pnuu | I'm safe from fb-attacks, yay | 19:57 |
* AL13N too | 19:57 | |
mornfall | AL13N: you obviously don't tell it what you don't have to, and everything you push out to network is application-level encrypted | 19:57 |
AL13N | mornfall: except that all apps run as the same user and therefor can check your encryption keys | 19:58 |
AL13N | or whatnot | 19:58 |
mornfall | AL13N: sure, that's an entirely different problem though :-) | 19:58 |
mornfall | *that* can be fixed | 19:58 |
mornfall | at least in theory | 19:58 |
AL13N | yes, but this is why we want sandboxing in apps | 19:59 |
mornfall | among other things, yes | 19:59 |
AL13N | to isolate apps from eachother and from the system (eg: your camera) | 19:59 |
mornfall | I think we reversed, now you preach to the choir ;-) | 19:59 |
AL13N | yes | 19:59 |
AL13N | tbh: i'm pretty sure we all preaching to the choir | 20:00 |
AL13N | the only people who don't agree are the ones not speaking | 20:00 |
mornfall | now where is the damned choir :D | 20:00 |
AL13N | or rainisto | 20:00 |
javispedro | I am most definitely not convinced sandboxing is a requirement. | 20:00 |
*** ndvl has quit IRC | 20:00 | |
clau | it's ok, we'll ask for a "disable" function for you. :D | 20:00 |
AL13N | if you don't, that is your prerogative, but then you likely don't care about privacy at all | 20:01 |
javispedro | the inconvenience is huge, and I don't see many benefits. | 20:01 |
AL13N | tbh: i'm perfectly fine if they want default all open | 20:01 |
clau | what inconvenience? | 20:01 |
mornfall | javispedro: well, it's only a requirement as far as you want to use your device for anything remotely privacy-sensitive | 20:01 |
clau | it can be done sanely, you know. | 20:01 |
AL13N | javispedro: that's just it, we're talking about technical stuff that will not have any inconvenience | 20:01 |
javispedro | mornfall: and I say having no sandbox is a requirement for using the device for anything remotely related to work. | 20:02 |
javispedro | real work. the one I do on my desktop. | 20:02 |
clau | define "real work" | 20:02 |
AL13N | mornfall: using a banking app or online banking or even buying something online, or accounts (for identity theft or even spam) is privacy-sensitive enough | 20:02 |
AL13N | err i meant that for javispedro | 20:03 |
javispedro | clau: many small programs interacting | 20:03 |
mornfall | AL13N: of course, but if you don't want to do anything like that, it's OK to not have sandboxing | 20:03 |
sremes | people don't run sandboxed software on their desktops, and still probably have more privacy-sensitive data there | 20:03 |
AL13N | even the jolla registered account is dangerous | 20:03 |
AL13N | they could order another jolla in your name | 20:03 |
clau | sremes, I do! | 20:03 |
mornfall | javispedro: it's a linux box, you can create a user for that kind of stuff | 20:04 |
mornfall | javispedro: you don't expect to install all those small programs that interact from the store, do you? | 20:04 |
sremes | clau: sure, some people do :) | 20:04 |
javispedro | mornfall: well, that is an option. otherwise the store is as alien to me as the android store | 20:04 |
*** M4rtinK2 has joined #jollamobile | 20:04 | |
AL13N | on desktops, people have tomoyo and selinux (and policykit) and everything runs under a different user (at least in linux) | 20:05 |
javispedro | AL13N: hardly. | 20:05 |
javispedro | well, except for clau. | 20:05 |
clau | :D | 20:05 |
mornfall | sremes: well, most people that don't have a sanbox and install random crapware contribute mightily to the botnets of the world | 20:05 |
clau | well, I'm a tad sad Jolla is not based on freebsd :) | 20:05 |
clau | freebsd jails are damn powerful | 20:06 |
mornfall | sremes: where you unfortunately have to assume that everything in a smartphone store is crapware | 20:06 |
mornfall | sremes: as far as security is concerned anyway | 20:06 |
AL13N | clau: did you read about the systemd chroots ? | 20:06 |
*** jreznik_ has quit IRC | 20:06 | |
*** jreznik__ has joined #jollamobile | 20:06 | |
javispedro | clau: well, systemd/kitchensinkd is not portable to freebsd! | 20:06 |
AL13N | clau: supposedly they are more secure than regular chroots | 20:06 |
clau | AL13N, read about jails | 20:06 |
* javispedro sighs. | 20:06 | |
clau | not that it would matter for Jolla though | 20:06 |
mornfall | AL13N: lxc anyone? | 20:06 |
javispedro | the most equivalent thing to jails is lxc | 20:06 |
mornfall | AL13N: bsd chroots are so overrated | 20:07 |
mornfall | bsd jails anyway | 20:07 |
clau | mornfall, explain? | 20:07 |
AL13N | iiuc, systemd chroots also had network seperation | 20:07 |
javispedro | lxc is still not entirely completed yet | 20:07 |
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC | 20:07 | |
javispedro | you'd be better suited using openvz or similar .. | 20:07 |
javispedro | (obviously the cascade of attention-deficit teenagers issue has left openvz without a clear upgrade path) | 20:09 |
mornfall | javispedro: the userspace maybe, the kernel side is not really lxc, it just uses a bunch of stuff that's already in the kernel | 20:09 |
javispedro | mornfall: that's precisely the problem, there's a bunch of stuff in the kernel that does not enforce the separation | 20:10 |
sremes | mornfall: I mostly agree, but I'm just wondering, why the same security measures than on smartphones (android etc.) are not more widely applied then to desktops, since the issues are the same as people do install crapware regardless the platform | 20:10 |
javispedro | mornfall: I think that being able to shutdown the system from a lxc uid 0 was fixed already, but then there was being able to change the hotplug handler and other issues | 20:11 |
mornfall | javispedro: yeah, well :-) that shutdown thing is kinda embarassing | 20:11 |
*** KaiRo_Mozilla has joined #jollamobile | 20:12 | |
Stskeeps | let's qemu kvm everything | 20:12 |
Stskeeps | :P | 20:12 |
mornfall | javispedro: but we aren't really concerned about container's uid0 here | 20:12 |
javispedro | sremes: to put it simple, try envisioning using the android sandbox policy in your desktop. | 20:12 |
mornfall | javispedro: as long as you don't have local root exploits in the kernel the app won't be able to use that | 20:12 |
javispedro | basically it only works when you're talking about fart apps. | 20:12 |
clau | most users only use fart apps on desktops. | 20:12 |
mornfall | clau: they deserve windows 8 :-) | 20:13 |
javispedro | exactly. | 20:13 |
javispedro | people complain about windows 8 a lot, | 20:13 |
javispedro | but that's what it is. | 20:13 |
javispedro | a fscking giant sandbox. | 20:13 |
*** raa70 has joined #jollamobile | 20:13 | |
clau | by fscking, you mean chkdsk-ing, right? | 20:14 |
clau | :) | 20:14 |
javispedro | clau: obviously, what else could it be? ;P | 20:14 |
kor | scandisking. | 20:14 |
javispedro | (actually it is called chkdsk-ing on nt systems) | 20:14 |
javispedro | (blame VMS) | 20:15 |
*** KaIRC has quit IRC | 20:15 | |
Quu | (blame canada) | 20:16 |
Stskeeps | (blame aard) | 20:16 |
AL13N | anyone know how to "show" whitespace differences with diff? | 20:17 |
attah | -b ? | 20:18 |
attah | and/or -B | 20:18 |
clau | isn't that happening by default? | 20:18 |
attah | http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk/CGI/man-cgi?diff | 20:18 |
mornfall | AL13N: you could do a normal diff, -w diff and then diff the diffs | 20:18 |
clau | -b and -B are for ignoring | 20:18 |
javispedro | I also suggest colordiff or similar as that might be configured to highlight whitespace changes | 20:18 |
clau | or, if the context allows it: vimdiff | 20:19 |
javispedro | (like git diff does, but I don't remember what it uses as backend) | 20:19 |
AL13N | hmm | 20:19 |
attah | oh.. sorry, i misread you.. so it's not on by default? :O | 20:19 |
*** Mr_K_ has joined #jollamobile | 20:19 | |
AL13N | of course | 20:19 |
AL13N | vimdiff | 20:19 |
clau | \o/ | 20:19 |
AL13N | i should've thought about it | 20:19 |
AL13N | yes, you win | 20:20 |
clau | hehehehe | 20:20 |
AL13N | clau: you get ++ karma | 20:20 |
AL13N | ok? | 20:20 |
clau | like, real lilfe karma? | 20:21 |
clau | ffs... my "l" is going nuts. | 20:21 |
*** eijk_ has joined #jollamobile | 20:24 | |
javispedro | aand the latest webkit-gtk build was only 3hours. I need to upgrade my Gentoo-building cluster. | 20:24 |
clau | on the security subject: http://qubes-os.org/trac | 20:24 |
clau | isn't there a binary package for webkit-gtk no gentoo? I recall they started to offer bins for big packages, like firefox, openoffice etc | 20:25 |
javispedro | not yet for webkit-gtk. | 20:25 |
clau | *on | 20:25 |
*** Morpog_Jolla has joined #jollamobile | 20:25 | |
*** Custodian has quit IRC | 20:26 | |
*** clau is now known as clau-afk | 20:26 | |
*** M4rtinK2 has quit IRC | 20:27 | |
javispedro | soo... I fear whatever is going to get out of the sailfish "security" bulldozer. | 20:27 |
javispedro | whatever it is, if you're thinking of doing weird things like removing pre/postscripts on RPMs, consider why you're using RPMs in the first place. | 20:27 |
*** friese has quit IRC | 20:27 | |
javispedro | you could just distribute programs in .zip packages, and give them an specific extension, I don't know, .apk | 20:28 |
javispedro | then use secure languages, like this new-fangled java | 20:28 |
*** clau-afk is now known as clau | 20:28 | |
clau | javispedro, you don't need all that. | 20:29 |
javispedro | maybe use some simple but pervasive IPC system, and call it openbinder... | 20:29 |
clau | users & groups. | 20:29 |
clau | won't solve everything, but will solve lots of problems. | 20:30 |
javispedro | well, that will kill direct reading from the contacts database for example, | 20:30 |
javispedro | and know you need to IPC reads and writes to/from it. | 20:30 |
clau | why? | 20:30 |
clau | make it group readable | 20:30 |
clau | and put the users you need in that particular group | 20:31 |
clau | or, offer it over... uhm, unix socket? | 20:31 |
AL13N | isn't there that thing where you can allow extra rights? | 20:31 |
clau | come on, linux offers this kind of stuff for ages. | 20:31 |
AL13N | (outside of user/groups) | 20:31 |
clau | and it would be a very good starting point for proper security. | 20:31 |
javispedro | clau: a socket is precisely the extra complexity that I'd prefer to avoid, | 20:32 |
javispedro | but I'm tempted by the groups idea | 20:32 |
clau | extra for who? | 20:32 |
javispedro | (though Android also does that...) | 20:32 |
clau | you can offer APIs | 20:32 |
AL13N | unix domain sockets is complex? | 20:32 |
*** KangOl has quit IRC | 20:32 | |
javispedro | yes. | 20:32 |
AL13N | that's the first time i heard that :-) | 20:32 |
clau | the casual developer doesn't need to have an idea about the mechanisms behind it | 20:32 |
clau | and the user won't care at all anyway. | 20:32 |
AL13N | exactly | 20:32 |
clau | and there's a beauty to it... let's face it :) | 20:33 |
javispedro | they will care when their 30000 messages database loaded instantenously before, and doesn't now. | 20:33 |
clau | it doesn't have to be a socket, but it would definitely be a better choice than giving access directly to a file. | 20:34 |
AL13N | DBUS | 20:34 |
* AL13N hides | 20:34 | |
clau | hahahah | 20:34 |
javispedro | clau: I admit 'design beauty' has a lot to do with this. The problem is, I tend to see beauty in simplicity. | 20:34 |
clau | there was a saying about how simple things should be. | 20:35 |
AL13N | KISS | 20:35 |
clau | but let me make an analogy with cars :P | 20:35 |
clau | would you rather drive without seatbelts, airbags, ABS, ESP etc ? | 20:35 |
AL13N | (doorlocks) | 20:36 |
clau | I mean, the cars used to be much simpler, and unfortunately deadlier | 20:36 |
javispedro | I dislike car analogies, but note how neither really changes the way you drive. | 20:36 |
clau | yes | 20:37 |
clau | that's what we propose for sailfish :) | 20:37 |
clau | something that doesn't change the way you use the phone. | 20:37 |
javispedro | in this case, this is a pervasive change. | 20:37 |
clau | ok, we'll talk about it again after your flashlight will steal your accounts details from the phone :). | 20:38 |
javispedro | it is a change of focus from a maemo-like "security ignorant" but desktop-like platform towards something resembling Android and "fart apps" models. | 20:38 |
clau | if Jolla wants to become mainstream... there's no other way anyway. | 20:39 |
javispedro | clau: technically that could happen right now on my Gentoo system. | 20:39 |
clau | while the trust model may work for us, here, it will be very very bad when there will be tons of closed source apps in the store. | 20:39 |
clau | do you use software that comes in binary format from another source than gentoo? | 20:39 |
AL13N | what's that command that rechecks for new systemd unit files? | 20:40 |
javispedro | clau: I even use Steam, from time to time. | 20:40 |
clau | ok, I give up then :) | 20:40 |
javispedro | =) | 20:40 |
javispedro | I see the need for certain sandboxing, e.g. a keyring. | 20:41 |
AL13N | but therein lies the problem | 20:41 |
AL13N | the minute you use it, all apps have access to it | 20:41 |
javispedro | well, keyrings in the desktop "kind of hope" that if any password in it is important, you'll set it up to prompt for a password the moment you need it, and then clear it from memory afterwards. | 20:42 |
javispedro | they also assume that secure prompts exist in X11, without keyboard monitors and so on. | 20:43 |
clau | hope-based security ? :D | 20:43 |
AL13N | hahaha | 20:43 |
javispedro | another example | 20:44 |
AL13N | then again, someone i will not specify but is into security mails his evernote stuff (and it contains passwords) | 20:44 |
* AL13N facepalms | 20:44 | |
javispedro | everyone knows how easy it is to both capture and fake keypresses in X11 (and Windows btw) | 20:44 |
*** ScriptRipper has joined #jollamobile | 20:44 | |
clau | /o\ | 20:44 |
javispedro | obviously this make any kind of keyring "hope-based security" at least on these platforms. | 20:44 |
javispedro | *this makes | 20:44 |
javispedro | yet allowing capturing and faking keypresses allows gazillions of usecases that I wouldn't want to lose. | 20:45 |
clau | yes, but all the other security methods are there to protect you from someone doing just that. | 20:45 |
clau | I grant you that though, X11 sucks. | 20:45 |
Yaniel | shocking news :D | 20:45 |
Stskeeps | +1 | 20:46 |
*** bef0rd has quit IRC | 20:46 | |
clau | hehehe | 20:46 |
javispedro | X11 sucks in its implementation. e.g. I am right now trying to figure out how to exceed the weird 160bytes payload limit in XEvents. But I don't think the ideas suck. | 20:46 |
Stskeeps | wayland sucks in other ways | 20:46 |
Yaniel | and mir probably in yet others | 20:47 |
javispedro | *160 bits, sorry. | 20:47 |
Yaniel | if there ever is a working implementation of that | 20:47 |
*** ced117 has quit IRC | 20:47 | |
* clau is looking forward to a text based phone interface. | 20:47 | |
Aard | let's do a new display protocol iplementing only the sucking parts from x11, wayland and mir :) | 20:47 |
clau | the sucking parts? :D | 20:48 |
javispedro | basically I suspect that's what Wayland will become. | 20:48 |
javispedro | an amalgamation of everything | 20:48 |
Aard | clau: I believe in causing pain :) | 20:48 |
clau | hahaha | 20:48 |
artemma | Anybody into making Jolla app store unique? :) https://together.jolla.com/question/17240/micro-payment-subscriptions-including-try-before-you-buy-for-app-store/ | 20:49 |
AL13N | well, at the very least pain is truth | 20:49 |
* artemma always wanted to be paid by app *usage* - brings so much motivation for permanent improvement | 20:49 | |
AL13N | i guess there's a reason why noone has done this before | 20:50 |
Aard | it's a privacy issue | 20:50 |
artemma | AL13N: I wonder the same often | 20:50 |
AL13N | Aard: i meant on the selling side | 20:50 |
*** Eztran has quit IRC | 20:51 | |
artemma | I would guess that Apple never cared about app subscriptions (they make real money on hardware after all) and then nobody had a "golden standard" to copy from :) | 20:51 |
AL13N | maybe it's the users don't like to think about using something | 20:52 |
AL13N | or at least that's how the sellers thing | 20:52 |
AL13N | *think | 20:52 |
javispedro | I think that half of fart app consumers actually "buy-to-try" | 20:52 |
javispedro | after all, the average active time for a fart app is just a few minutes | 20:53 |
artemma | Possibly, I hope to have a bit of discussion about it for better understanding. Not sure if it fits Together format much though as "just discussions" seem to be not very welcome there | 20:53 |
AL13N | and never use again | 20:53 |
*** Eztran has joined #jollamobile | 20:53 | |
javispedro | any trial would be longer than that. | 20:53 |
* artemma sigh, some people care too much about karmas and points | 20:53 | |
AL13N | but, paid by usage is ads | 20:53 |
*** Kabouik has quit IRC | 20:53 | |
artemma | well, I do not like to be paid by apps. And to pay by apps to | 20:53 |
*** clau is now known as clau-afk | 20:53 | |
*** Kabouik has joined #jollamobile | 20:54 | |
AL13N | and the users neither, but it's the simplest solution for sellers | 20:54 |
Quu | awaynicks are bad for your health | 20:54 |
artemma | so searching for alternative models to be paid by app usage. Micro-pament oriented subscription is one such idea, would love to see better proposals | 20:54 |
*** arcean has quit IRC | 20:54 | |
artemma | I don't think ads really work for developers too, except for few maybe | 20:55 |
AL13N | artemma: i wish you luck with your endeavour, even though you're trying to make the world a better place, i'm assuming you'll not get any credit for that | 20:55 |
artemma | there's reason why Facebook does native mobile ads instead of "standard" in-app banners | 20:55 |
krnlyng | hi, i've ordered my jolla on the 1.1.2014, i know it hasn't been 3 weeks yet but i am really eager, want to hack :), can i expect it to arrive this week :)? | 20:56 |
AL13N | no | 20:56 |
artemma | AL13N: it's alright, if it flies I will be able to get enough credit to massage my ego. I'll be happy if I'll be able to be paid by my app usage :) | 20:56 |
*** Guest17603 has quit IRC | 20:56 | |
AL13N | krnlyng: but then again, i got mine before 3 weeks, even though they said 3/4 weeks | 20:56 |
AL13N | artemma: btw: were you the one with the hello world app? | 20:57 |
*** wootis has quit IRC | 20:57 | |
artemma | AL13N: yep | 20:58 |
*** wootis has joined #jollamobile | 20:58 | |
attah | krnlyng: What's the status in the store? Not shipped yet? And when exactly did you order? | 20:58 |
AL13N | artemma: i put in a pull-request | 20:58 |
AL13N | just saying | 20:58 |
*** dazo_afk has joined #jollamobile | 20:58 | |
artemma | AL13N: getting through mail is in my todo list two slots from what I am currently doing :) | 20:58 |
artemma | thanks for the proposal | 20:58 |
*** dazo_afk is now known as dazo | 20:58 | |
krnlyng | attah: on the 1.1 :), it says shipped in the store | 20:58 |
attah | krnlyng: and fedex tracking? | 21:00 |
krnlyng | attah: where do i find that :D? | 21:00 |
attah | Well. if you got a confirmation email for the shipment, that's where it'll be | 21:01 |
attah | Unless they still send out shipping numbers in scientific notation.. lol | 21:02 |
* Stskeeps cringes | 21:02 | |
*** thessy has joined #jollamobile | 21:02 | |
attah | Stskeeps: funny part is.. it wouldn't have been an issue if it hadn't been that the last digits were rounded off ^^ | 21:03 |
*** KangOl has joined #jollamobile | 21:05 | |
*** itbaron has quit IRC | 21:06 | |
attah | krnlyng: the other option is to track it "by reference" and then give the shipment number which can be found both in said email and the store.. and you'll also have to provide country+zip | 21:07 |
AL13N | artemma: iinm, there were 2 other pull-requests already | 21:07 |
krnlyng | hmm fedex says thursday :'( toooo long :) | 21:13 |
slate | isnt that next week? | 21:15 |
slate | ;) | 21:15 |
*** blam_ has quit IRC | 21:15 | |
*** blam_ has joined #jollamobile | 21:16 | |
mikhas | slate, I like the contacts view | 21:16 |
*** Pat_o has quit IRC | 21:16 | |
slate | mikhas: in N9? ;) | 21:16 |
mikhas | no in Jolla | 21:16 |
mikhas | does not quite work for > 200 contacts but still | 21:16 |
slate | Same, took a while to get used to but works good. | 21:16 |
mikhas | (dynamic indexing works better than fixed index, for unbound sets) | 21:17 |
* artemma doesn't like that he is forced to use Jolla in English just because most of my contacts use Latin letters. Otherwise they are all grouped in a huge "#' section | 21:17 | |
slate | One thing I miss is spotlight-style search device-wide | 21:17 |
javispedro | I don't understand what was the role of smartsearchd on N9 | 21:18 |
artemma | slate: should be doable by 3rd parties | 21:18 |
javispedro | presumably, simply querying tracker would have been enough.. | 21:19 |
slate | artemma: yeh, everything is readable? :P | 21:19 |
* artemma just released spotlight style search for just apps to the harbour yesterday. Adding contacts, media search, etc is just a question of open APIs, seems to be doable | 21:19 | |
Stskeeps | javispedro: unicorns and magic | 21:19 |
*** thessy has left #jollamobile | 21:20 | |
*** blam_ has quit IRC | 21:20 | |
javispedro | and quite hungry unicorns they were | 21:20 |
*** M4rtinK2 has joined #jollamobile | 21:20 | |
artemma | Stskeeps, "blackjack and sluts" is the modern version :) | 21:20 |
Quu | NSFW-unicorn: http://termite.apcdn.com/full/112356.jpg | 21:21 |
slate | It sunday, no work. | 21:22 |
Hartzi | but that's friday stuff | 21:22 |
javispedro | I'm not clicking, last time I clicked on a random NSFW link on IRC ..... need more bleach. | 21:22 |
Quu | its just little unicorn | 21:22 |
Waitee | Quu: haha | 21:22 |
Waitee | :D | 21:23 |
slate | Friday stuff would have 2 dicks in it. | 21:23 |
pdanek1 | Quu: umm, not sure if such stuff can be posted here | 21:26 |
Quu | close your eyes and pretend like nothing happened | 21:27 |
Quu | its not like you need to click every NSFW link | 21:27 |
*** Morpog_Jolla has quit IRC | 21:28 | |
*** Morpog_Jolla has joined #jollamobile | 21:29 | |
*** xes has joined #jollamobile | 21:29 | |
*** xes has left #jollamobile | 21:29 | |
*** Eztran has quit IRC | 21:29 | |
*** Eztran has joined #jollamobile | 21:29 | |
pdanek1 | Quu: ah actually, I didn't know what NSFW means :) | 21:30 |
pdanek1 | so it's fine | 21:30 |
pdanek1 | Because I exactly thought of the situation of opening it in office :) | 21:30 |
Waitee | well this is a public channel for developing and discussing jolla | 21:30 |
Waitee | nsfw links dont belong here imo | 21:30 |
pdanek1 | true | 21:30 |
Quu | meh, its internet | 21:31 |
Waitee | Quu: yes | 21:31 |
pdanek1 | Internet is for porn, right | 21:31 |
Quu | if you get offended by something like that, internet is not for you | 21:31 |
attah | don't forget conspiracy theories.. | 21:31 |
Waitee | Quu: pretty agressive statement imo | 21:32 |
javispedro | yes, NSFW links have to be inserted from time to time to keep the NSA at bay | 21:32 |
petantik | It might not be offensive, but it's probably not the proper place for it either. | 21:32 |
*** alight has quit IRC | 21:33 | |
petantik | At least it was tagged NSFW | 21:33 |
*** Zotan has quit IRC | 21:40 | |
javispedro | what? I need to rebuild firefox too? | 21:41 |
*** attah has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
*** NIN101 has quit IRC | 21:48 | |
*** hankeypancake has joined #jollamobile | 21:52 | |
*** nsuffys has quit IRC | 21:53 | |
*** winfriedd has joined #jollamobile | 21:53 | |
*** jreznik__ has quit IRC | 21:55 | |
*** alight has joined #jollamobile | 21:57 | |
AL13N | i just noticed something very weird | 21:58 |
DrainBamaged | Is it because I am here? :o | 21:58 |
AL13N | Stskeeps: remember when i told you about that weird dialer thing? where +32NNNNNNNNN was replaced by +32c1899NNNNNNNNN ? | 21:59 |
AL13N | CGroup: name=systemd:/user/nemo/c1/systemd-899/voicecall-manager.service | 21:59 |
*** eijk_ has quit IRC | 21:59 | |
AL13N | i just found out this | 22:00 |
AL13N | no idea if it's related or not... but damn that's odd | 22:00 |
javispedro | why? | 22:00 |
AL13N | c1 and 899 | 22:00 |
javispedro | ah, you mean systemd-[\d]* matches | 22:00 |
AL13N | ye | 22:01 |
javispedro | well, I assume that's a pid, so, reboot | 22:01 |
javispedro | and you can try again | 22:01 |
AL13N | the phone service provider shows in call logs +32c1899NNNNNNNNN where journalctl shows +32NNNNNNNNN in logs, but i cannot dial | 22:01 |
AL13N | (or at least i cannot connect) | 22:02 |
*** raa70 has quit IRC | 22:03 | |
AL13N | yes, 899 is the "systemd --user" process | 22:03 |
javispedro | I mean that after rebooting, the PID'll change | 22:03 |
*** raa70 has joined #jollamobile | 22:03 | |
AL13N | probably | 22:03 |
*** Tofe is now known as Tofe|Away | 22:03 | |
javispedro | so if make a call and it still matches, you'll have two data poinst | 22:04 |
javispedro | *points | 22:04 |
*** Andy80 has joined #jollamobile | 22:04 | |
AL13N | i found this while i was testing my openvpn .service file | 22:04 |
AL13N | javispedro: yes, i understand | 22:04 |
*** eleroux has quit IRC | 22:04 | |
*** hankeypancake has quit IRC | 22:05 | |
*** hankeypancake has joined #jollamobile | 22:06 | |
*** pdanek1 has quit IRC | 22:07 | |
*** hankeypancake has quit IRC | 22:08 | |
*** hankeypancake has joined #jollamobile | 22:09 | |
*** mjones has quit IRC | 22:10 | |
*** Andy80 has quit IRC | 22:10 | |
*** mjones has joined #jollamobile | 22:10 | |
*** cvp has quit IRC | 22:13 | |
*** samikshan has quit IRC | 22:14 | |
*** mjones has quit IRC | 22:15 | |
*** KangOl has quit IRC | 22:16 | |
*** Morpog_Mobile_ has joined #jollamobile | 22:18 | |
*** Morpog_Mobile has quit IRC | 22:18 | |
*** clau-afk is now known as clau | 22:19 | |
*** Morpog_Jolla has quit IRC | 22:20 | |
*** M4rtinK2 has quit IRC | 22:22 | |
*** mk2soldier has quit IRC | 22:25 | |
AL13N | damn, how i can add a dns server from cli into connman ? | 22:25 |
*** mk2soldier has joined #jollamobile | 22:25 | |
AL13N | no cmc or connmancli | 22:26 |
*** dunp has quit IRC | 22:27 | |
*** Eztran has quit IRC | 22:28 | |
*** Eztran has joined #jollamobile | 22:29 | |
*** onurati has quit IRC | 22:29 | |
*** dunp has joined #jollamobile | 22:30 | |
*** pdanek has joined #jollamobile | 22:32 | |
*** sameo has joined #jollamobile | 22:35 | |
*** mk2soldier has quit IRC | 22:36 | |
*** mk2soldier has joined #jollamobile | 22:37 | |
*** mjones has joined #jollamobile | 22:40 | |
*** alien_ has quit IRC | 22:45 | |
*** mjones has quit IRC | 22:45 | |
*** mjones has joined #jollamobile | 22:45 | |
*** igor_b has quit IRC | 22:47 | |
artemma | Stskeeps: sent you crash logs and comments | 22:50 |
*** HarhaanJohtaja has quit IRC | 22:51 | |
*** dbringer has quit IRC | 22:56 | |
*** mk2soldier has left #jollamobile | 22:57 | |
*** mk2soldier has joined #jollamobile | 22:57 | |
*** Natunen has quit IRC | 22:58 | |
*** Mr_K_ has quit IRC | 22:59 | |
*** cb400f has quit IRC | 23:02 | |
*** AlmAck has quit IRC | 23:04 | |
*** spider-mario has quit IRC | 23:05 | |
*** qqK has quit IRC | 23:05 | |
*** dafox has quit IRC | 23:07 | |
*** Morpog_Jolla has joined #jollamobile | 23:10 | |
*** M4rtinK has joined #jollamobile | 23:12 | |
pahartik | AL13N: "/usr/lib/connman/test/set-nameservers" | 23:13 |
*** blam_ has joined #jollamobile | 23:14 | |
AL13N | aha, interesting | 23:14 |
AL13N | Stskeeps: full log seems interesting http://pastebin.com/qhJ8emXx (look at the "unknown SS message" thing?) | 23:17 |
AL13N | phone webpage says: "20/01/2014 00:13:27 Uit Premium SMS 3XXX 32c4899496560594 00:00:00 0,00" | 23:19 |
*** DrainBamaged has quit IRC | 23:20 | |
*** DrainBamaged has joined #jollamobile | 23:20 | |
Aard | AL13N: what did you break? :) | 23:22 |
*** blam_ has quit IRC | 23:22 | |
AL13N | Aard: i put in a SIM | 23:23 |
AL13N | i hadn't before | 23:23 |
AL13N | it's a SIM without data plan | 23:23 |
Aard | and what happened? | 23:23 |
AL13N | but for some reason, i can't be called/sms'd, and cannot call/sms | 23:23 |
Aard | interesting | 23:23 |
AL13N | the phone provider seems to insert "c4899" between country code and actual number | 23:23 |
AL13N | or the phone does it, i donno | 23:24 |
AL13N | this reminds me of the chinese curse to have an "interesting" life :-) | 23:24 |
Aard | building a phone definitely let's you see lot's of "interesting" things | 23:25 |
AL13N | hehe | 23:25 |
AL13N | Aard: things is, i don't really know how to debug this further, or if this is provider issue, or phone issue | 23:26 |
*** blam_ has joined #jollamobile | 23:26 | |
AL13N | on the one end, it does seem to get in the logs | 23:26 |
AL13N | (of the provider) | 23:26 |
AL13N | but otoh, the number doesn't really display correctly, doesn't it... | 23:26 |
Aard | alterego: maybe you want to look at that? :) | 23:26 |
AL13N | and my work-phone android can't call/SMS it, but i don't see those in the history of the phone provider, so... | 23:27 |
AL13N | gah, since i have a Jolla, i'm hating android | 23:27 |
AL13N | i'm double-tapping and such | 23:27 |
lpotter | AL13N: that just horrible | 23:27 |
Aard | AL13N: I hated android before I had a jolla. I'm quite happy that I nowadays can use some interesting android apps without suffering android as such | 23:28 |
AL13N | myeah, i see the point | 23:28 |
AL13N | well, i guess when alterego wakes up tomorrow he'll have some interesting IRC logs | 23:29 |
AL13N | Aard: would it be possible to send me a test SMS/test call? | 23:29 |
Aard | sure | 23:29 |
Aard | number? | 23:29 |
AL13N | just to see if i see this in the phone provider logs, or if this is my android crapping out | 23:29 |
*** fk_lx has quit IRC | 23:31 | |
jusics | AL13N: just thinking, maybe you have to actually receive the sms before it shows up in provider logs? | 23:32 |
AL13N | jusics: that's possible | 23:32 |
AL13N | don't see anything in the phone provider logs... maybe the provider locked me out... | 23:32 |
AL13N | jusics: the question is why don't i, (nor do i see anything on the phone journal) | 23:33 |
AL13N | the site said my sim is "active" | 23:33 |
AL13N | grr | 23:33 |
jusics | try putting that sim in another phone for a while? | 23:33 |
jusics | to see if it can clear the sms queue | 23:34 |
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile | 23:34 | |
AL13N | jusics: heh, it doesn't fit anymore in another phone :-) | 23:35 |
jusics | ok :) | 23:35 |
AL13N | btw: can anyone look at my service settings and see if i'm not doing anything illogical? http://imagebin.org/287584 | 23:35 |
Aard | AL13N: you don't have enough phones on your desk :p | 23:35 |
AL13N | heh | 23:36 |
AL13N | Aard: not planning to | 23:36 |
AL13N | i already had 3 phones... people were giving me looks | 23:36 |
* artemma counted his phones ones, got seven. By now a couple of them are broken though, mostly because of home made micro-SIM adapters, sigh | 23:37 | |
* Aard recently upgraded the permanently mounted charger ports in his desk to 8, so I don't need to plug in additional chargers that often | 23:37 | |
AL13N | lol | 23:38 |
AL13N | btw: i don't need GPRS to actually make a call, right? | 23:39 |
AL13N | (or SMS) | 23:39 |
Aard | no | 23:39 |
jusics | you don't need it, gprs is just for data conns | 23:40 |
AL13N | that's what i thought | 23:41 |
AL13N | i disabled all MSS, GPRS stuff | 23:41 |
* lpotter doesn't count his phones anymore | 23:42 | |
petantik | run out of fingers? | 23:43 |
petantik | I joke. | 23:43 |
AL13N | i went to this shop to rescue my old nokia contacts on phone memory | 23:43 |
* Aard neither, I think I nowadays have more phones here than computers, but I don't know exactly how many computers I have | 23:43 | |
AL13N | and i went with the owner in the back | 23:43 |
AL13N | gods the number of phones was huges | 23:44 |
AL13N | musta been hundreds | 23:44 |
AL13N | the guy even had almost the same model as my old phone | 23:44 |
artemma | Aard: we need to rebrand phones as computers some time soon anyway | 23:45 |
*** Venemo has quit IRC | 23:45 | |
*** raignarok has quit IRC | 23:45 | |
artemma | heh, after the recent Intel announcements soon we'll rebrand running shoes into computers that run | 23:45 |
AL13N | oh gods a few days i don't look at my emails and already 380 emails in sailfishos-devel | 23:46 |
* artemma nearly stopped reading sailsihos-devel list after switching to Jolla phone. GMail conveniently put all mails into sub-inbox, with Jolla I am forced to archive to Folder and.. no easy favorite folders neither in Jolla nor in web gmail | 23:47 | |
AL13N | Aard: http://www.bash.org/?5273 | 23:47 |
Aard | AL13N: happened to me as well in my old apartment. which was a 16sqm one room apartment. | 23:47 |
AL13N | haha | 23:48 |
AL13N | but that one's a classic | 23:48 |
* artemma remembers a rumor from a friend. A mail server stopped working and nobody remembered where it was. They traced cables to.. a brick wall | 23:48 | |
Aard | it was pretty annoying, it just had a 16 ampere fuse which I permanently blew | 23:48 |
Aard | so I had to shut down computers before using the microwave oven, and similar things | 23:49 |
AL13N | the other day, someone asked my why Jolla was so great... i talked about possibilities and vim was on it and etc... and then he asked, but can you call with it... and i said "well no, i don't have a SIM in it yet" :-) | 23:49 |
artemma | some years ago construction workers replaced a small room door with a brick wall, poor linux webserver stayed inside and was up for few years more until ran out of disk space | 23:49 |
*** frafra has quit IRC | 23:49 | |
AL13N | artemma: security! | 23:49 |
Morpog_Jolla | i just found out why qHD resolution. So jolla can use pixel doubling in a future device with full hd resolution | 23:50 |
Aard | artemma: about 10 years back when I was on vacation I received a call from a customer if I had any clue where one server. they made the mistake of spanning an unmanaged network over 4 datacentres in different buildings, and when they tried to find it for a hardware upgrade they had not even a remote clue which building it was in | 23:50 |
artemma | Morpog_Jolla: why is that related? | 23:50 |
*** raignarok has joined #jollamobile | 23:51 | |
artemma | Aard: lol | 23:51 |
Morpog_Jolla | related to what? | 23:51 |
Morpog_Jolla | it just flashed through my head | 23:52 |
Morpog_Jolla | Qt already dupports pixel doubling | 23:52 |
artemma | why qHD matters? | 23:52 |
Morpog_Jolla | same approach as apple used | 23:52 |
Aard | artemma: was back in frankurt, we sometimes moved servers between buildings ourselves (it's just faster if you quickly get your hands dirty yourself). frankfurt city = using cars is a bit silly. so we borrowed the sack barrow from the mail department, and stacked 10 units worth of compaq servers, and some disk arrays on it, and went for a walk. you get pretty amusing reactions when you decide on the way to go for a lunch break with all that ... | 23:53 |
Aard | ... stuff | 23:53 |
AL13N | a few weeks ago, we had a client that had some "odd issue" that looked suspiciously like layer 2 loops... unfortunately, there's various bridges, wifi, switches, fibre lines, vpn boxes with vlan passthrough, etc... all layer2 over dozen locations | 23:53 |
Morpog_Jolla | artemma: 960 * 2 = 1920, 540 * 2 = 1080 | 23:53 |
AL13N | dude | 23:54 |
AL13N | that's why it's qHD | 23:54 |
Eztran | Morpog_Jolla: well, yeah. quarter HD. | 23:54 |
artemma | so you mean that quarter of HD scales well to full HD. Well, indeed | 23:54 |
AL13N | 1/4 in 2 dimensions means halving in each dimension... | 23:54 |
Morpog_Jolla | hege yeah, but they can just double all graphics to support it | 23:55 |
artemma | Morpog_Jolla: okay, I just thought there's some deeper message :) | 23:55 |
Morpog_Jolla | well, next device should use 1920*1080 | 23:55 |
AL13N | or qHD | 23:55 |
*** raignarok has quit IRC | 23:55 | |
artemma | Morpog_Jolla: okay, I just thought there's some deeper message :) | 23:56 |
Morpog_Jolla | noooo :D | 23:56 |
artemma | sorry for double message | 23:56 |
AL13N | artemma: oh, i just thought you meant to reinforce your opinion | 23:56 |
AL13N | yanno, some kind of deeper message :-) ? | 23:56 |
* artemma 's opinions are second only to Chuck's in force | 23:56 | |
AL13N | ok, i gotta go sleep | 23:57 |
AL13N | work tomorrow | 23:57 |
*** nickg__ has quit IRC | 23:58 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!