#jollamobile log for Thursday, 2014-03-06

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CoderCandygar... the IRC app works horribly on 2.506:20
CoderCandyBut 3.8 works horribly as a whole right now...06:21
dwangoACsledges: I have not heard back on the Galaxy S3 I inquired about, but I spoke with my wife and she agreed to allow me to take her Nexus 4... so long as I get her a Nexus 5. :)06:24
dwangoACsledges: When would an image for the Nexus 4 be ready?06:25
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dwangoACStskeeps: If possible I will try to get both an S3 and repurpose my wife's Nexus 4, but I need to not go too crazy with the budget06:29
dwangoACIf anyone here is willing to part with either of these phones and accepts Bitcoins please let me know, I'll pay a premium if I can pay with Bitcoin06:29
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StskeepsdwangoAC: still waking up; but we need the sailfish update4 to come out first06:35
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dwangoACStskeeps: What's a rough timeframe?  Days?  Weeks?  Months?  Quarters? Years?  :)06:40
dwangoACStskeeps: Feel free to tell me to go read something on the website, by the way06:41
StskeepsdwangoAC: less than month more than week06:41
nahkissgiving timeframes is bad, because if they miss them then everyone feels bad06:41
dwangoACStskeeps: Perfect.06:41
dwangoACnahkiss: I'm a test engineer / in QA by trade - I totally get that06:41
dwangoACStskeeps: I'll order the Nexus 5 and it should be here in a couple of weeks06:42
dwangoACStskeeps: That'll give us some time to get everything transferred06:42
dwangoAC(From the Nexus 4 my wife is currently using to the Nexus 5)06:42
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Stskeeps:nod: just be aware it's early adaptors at this point, ie, if it goes up in flames, i'm not responsible06:43
dwangoACStskeeps: Heh06:43
dwangoACStskeeps: I have access to JTAG interfaces at work, does that help? :)06:44
Stskeepshehe06:44
Stskeepsno clue if jtag is even exposed at n4 ;)06:44
dwangoAC(We use it for some of the stuff we make)06:44
dwangoACStskeeps: Yeah, I don't know either06:44
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CoderCandyaugh, I don't like 2.506:45
tehdelyi think after i get my jolla repaired (whenver that happens)06:45
dwangoACStskeeps: Most of my experience with a JTAG interface is from.. um.. putting Linux on original Xbox consoles06:45
tehdelyi will keep it as a dev device06:45
CoderCandyIRC is borked :h06:45
CoderCandy:(*06:45
tehdelyand get an s3 or somethign that's a bit more US -comaptible06:45
tehdelyas my sailfish device06:45
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tehdelyif that is jolla's answer for ppl in the US right now, then sign me up :)06:45
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Venemo_jhey!06:49
Stskeepsmoo06:49
CoderCandywoof?06:50
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tehdelyhiss06:50
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Pnuuwhat does the fox say?06:50
dwangoACPnuu: Um... no06:51
tehdelyheheheh06:51
tehdelyi almost said it06:51
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Pnuu(and I don't even understand what's funny about that song :-D)06:51
dwangoACtehdely: What would you say? :)06:51
CoderCandyWas THAT what we were doing?06:52
tehdelyyiff! :P06:52
* CoderCandy cringes.06:52
* tehdely not a furry i swear to G-d almighty06:52
dwangoACMy wife just said "Ring ding ding ding dingiding!"06:53
tehdelyfunny, i have married my phone as well06:53
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dwangoACtehdely: Wait, what?06:54
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chriadamhe's not a ylvis fan, I guess06:55
tehdelynever heard of it06:56
Pnuulucky you06:56
walokrathat ring ding ding sounds more like the crazy frog06:57
tehdelyso it sounds like a trabant? :P06:57
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Venemo_jPnuu: I know a good parody of that song: 'What does Laplace say?'07:05
chriadami liked the suse parody.  high production values on that one.07:07
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CoderCandyRing ring ring ring ring ring banana.phone.07:10
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PnuuVenemo_j: :-D07:30
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Venemo_jPnuu: watched it?08:05
Pnuuno, not yet08:05
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AcceVenemo_j: haha, this rocks08:13
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AL13N_workAcce: what's so funny?08:29
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TMavicathe operator so surprise about my Jolla in Hong Kong08:37
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TMavicathey never heard it, lol..08:37
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WntThe list of questions tagged in mar14 is already 2 pages long :) https://together.jolla.com/questions/scope:all/sort:age-desc/tags:mar14/09:14
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AcceAL13N_work: What does Laplace say?09:16
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suyso, mar14 is supposed to be the date? or it could be just a placeholder for the release version?09:35
Stskeepsmarch 201409:35
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ln-http://elitedaily.com/news/technology/this-insane-new-app-will-allow-you-to-read-novels-in-under-90-minutes/09:49
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sharpneliWhile spritz is quite cool I don't seriously think that reading speed is the limiting factor in novels.09:50
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roboroyeah... I actually *like* to take my time reading09:53
leinirHehe, yeah, me too :)09:53
roboroit gives the imagination space to kick in09:53
joonahoi_that's true for literature, but i'd prefer reading the work emails and such way faster09:53
roborothat I already do... I skim a *lot*09:54
AL13N_worki like taking my time too, time to visualise details and surrounding of the fiction books i'm reading09:54
roboroif something looks like its interesting I re-read09:54
AL13N_workfor other text, that's called "diagonal reading" :-)09:54
AL13N_workit's a lot faster than this system09:54
chem|stAL13N_work: cross-reading...09:55
ln-counter argument: things in movies (usually) happen a lot faster than what it takes to read the same things in a novel. still people don't watch movies at half speed.09:56
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roboromovies don't require that much imagination09:57
leinirln-: also counter argument - most movies are built on short stories, not novels09:57
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robororeading is quite different to getting spoon-fed09:57
sharpneliAlso stuff like normal conversation in movies is dog slow compared to how one can read it. But action stuff etc is a lot faster in movies.09:58
leiniralso, in a similar comparison - apples are much worse than pancakes ;)09:58
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ln-leinir: short stories are usually something between 2 and 15 pages, not many movies' plot would fit in that space.09:58
sharpneliMaybe the word you are searching for is novella10:00
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sharpneliLonger than short story, shorter than a novel10:00
Acceactually reading stuff with that thing could help people learn to concentrate on one thing, maybe help your memory too10:02
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AL13N_workmovies based on books have ripped out a lot of stuff10:07
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ln-certainly.10:08
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HtheBis there any way to get "android root" access?11:04
HtheBlike using "SuperSu" or "Superuser" ?11:04
inffy_devel-su11:04
HtheBthats from the terminal11:04
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inffy_yep11:04
HtheBI think I need to set some permissions so that Superuser (app) can update it?11:05
HtheBafaik it should be at /usr/bin/su11:05
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HtheBno noe?11:09
HtheBone*?11:09
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suyHtheB: what do you mean by "android root"?11:16
HtheBsuy: well, some apps require "root"11:16
HtheBas in "android root"11:16
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HtheBthere are apps like supersu and superuser who can grant access to those apps who need rootaccess11:16
tbrwhich is the XDA way of saying "a suid su binary"11:17
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HtheBprobably11:17
bencohthat sound awful11:17
bencoh+s11:17
chem|stcontacts linking fallout... https://together.jolla.com/question/32132/bug-messaging-wrong-number-assigned-to-conversation/11:18
HtheBBy the way, funny that Sailfish OS is a gesture based OS... but the device password is not gesture based at all..11:19
HtheB(as in "Pattern lock")11:19
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inffy_well it's still under heavy development so...might come somedaty11:23
inffy_*day11:23
suyMaybe is a patent risk. http://9to5google.com/2011/11/18/google-patents-android-pattern-unlock/  I hope is not, though.11:24
chem|stthe time-picker could be a gesture-lock11:26
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SpeedEvilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Zedlock11:29
Accepattern unlock patented? well, we just need to come up with some other type of gesture lock11:29
SpeedEvilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Zedlock&oldid=4084911:30
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HtheBchem|st: time-picker?11:35
SpeedEvilI'm sure I remember other pattern locks11:36
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SpeedEvil(above is prior art, on the patent - at least somewhat in 2008 - for thos that haven't clicked)11:36
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HtheBI think I have a good idea for the lockscreen11:41
roborome too11:41
HtheBtell me yours :)11:41
roborohow about you select 3 images that you can use to unlock... the unlock screen displays tiled images... with your 3 images randomly placed... you select the 3 images that unlock and voila11:42
suySpeedEvil: so you think google's patents might be invalid?11:42
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HtheBI think my idea is more superiour :)11:43
rangoyI think that 9/10 software patents should be invalidated11:43
roboroHtheB: tell us your idea11:43
SpeedEvilAlso - the other patent I saw referenced as to how to recognise shapes drawn on screen looks damn like xstroke11:43
roboroor patent it :D11:43
HtheBdirection swiping (not from the edges, but just anywhere on the screen)11:44
HtheBlike: up up down down left right left right (yes... first part of the konami code lol)11:44
SpeedEvilthat's also got a patent AIUI11:44
HtheByou can unlock the screen without even looking at the screen!11:44
chem|stgo https://together.jolla.com/question/18090/alternative-unlock-screen/?answer=18094#post-id-18094 and post your ideas!11:44
SpeedEvilGoogle was also granted another patent titled “Automatic Derivation of Analogous Touch Gestures From A User-Defined Gesture” (patent ID: 20110279384) which specifically details methods to decipher custom gestures drawn anywhere on the lock screen, regardless of their shape, size, position, etc11:44
HtheBSpeedEvil: im talking about multiple gestures, not 1 gesture11:45
roboroHtheB: lots of chance that something that lurks very close to my pocket will do a bit of swiping :P11:45
stephgremind me never to touch your phone roboro11:45
roborolol11:45
SpeedEvilI ahve actually managed to pocket-slide-unlock a nexus 7, and buy an app - from the homescreen11:45
SpeedEvilFortunately, I caught it in the 15 min window11:45
chem|stSpeedEvil: wtf they patent anything nowadays...11:46
SpeedEvilyes11:46
chem|stgesture recognition is like 20 years old...11:46
SpeedEvilYou should never, ever be able to get a patent for something that can be developed by an engineer of average skill in the field in less than the total time it would take to write the patent - and get it through all the steps of patent searching,.11:47
SpeedEvilThat's just barking mad.11:47
chem|stSpeedEvil: the patent system is barking mad, there needs to be a massive change in how knowledge gets protected11:48
SpeedEvilI would argue that the benchmark should be somewhere around '3 months of effort by the average engineer'11:48
chem|stlike patents get void if they were not used11:49
roborohow about faux-morse unlock11:49
roborotap tap tap swipe swipe tap11:49
roboroobviously timeout between taps and swipes11:50
roboroso you need to do it in quick succession11:50
roboroswipe can be in any direction11:50
SpeedEvilIn practice.11:50
SpeedEvilMake a UI.11:50
SpeedEvilerr11:50
roborotap can be anywhere on the screen11:50
SpeedEvilan API11:50
SpeedEvilLet other people develop screen lock apps11:50
roborothat would be best11:51
SpeedEvilthey are not practically going to go after someone releasing a free clone of a pattern lock.11:51
roboroAPI for unlock11:51
SpeedEvilThey in principle may go after jolla for distributing as stock software11:51
chem|stSpeedEvil: right, a mandatory way to enter the actual lock-code and emergency dialing and off you go11:51
roboroI think the faux-morse one would be hard to patent... morse has been around forever11:52
SpeedEvilroboro: you miss the whole point.11:52
SpeedEvilIt's not morse.11:52
SpeedEvilIt's morse-on-a-phone-for-unlocking11:52
HtheBhttps://together.jolla.com/question/18090/alternative-unlock-screen/#post-id-3213811:52
chem|stroboro: they patented showing icons with your hands in front of google-glas11:53
roborothat's ridiculous... american patent law is just out of hand11:53
roboroanything on a touch screen to unlock would be considered a pattern11:53
chem|stroboro: they cannot patent the gesture but they have patented the recognition by a bodymounted camera system11:54
roboroso you've patented unlocking which is ridiculous11:54
roboroa password is a pattern11:54
HtheBI hope you guys like the idea what I've just posted11:54
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bencoh/3211:54
bencoh/3211:55
Jopenice ctrl-l's you have there11:55
bencohindeed ... sorry about that11:55
HtheB:D11:55
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chem|stso messaging numberlinking is now total fallout12:00
HtheBlols12:01
chem|stI sent a message to the wrong number and it was sent to the right one, a new message received from the right but it does still show the wrong number12:01
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HtheBvoted :)12:02
chem|stand I cannot switch to another number as it thinks it is attached to a single number^^12:04
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chem|stnow it is completely gone12:05
chem|stlinking it to the account seems to do nothing anymore, the conversation is fixed to show that number and that even linked shown unlinked12:05
chem|stso now I managed to have it show the new number on all...12:06
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chem|stmessaging crashed - after I unlinked it again... killall jolla-messages and tada I have two conversations12:10
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chem|stI did not unlink, I did delete the old number...12:15
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Jaksujes :Dd12:28
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Jaksucoolia12:31
Jaksuonks sulki jolla?12:31
Stskeepssorry, english?12:31
Jaksuoh shit12:32
Jaksui tough this is finnish :Dd12:32
Stskeepshehe12:32
Jaksuyou guys got a jolla phones?12:32
ggabrieli do12:32
joonahoi_not sure about Stskeeps, but most of us do12:32
ggabrielbut i am not the first one12:32
joonahoi_;)12:32
Stskeepsjoonahoi_: well, i don't have a retail device..12:33
joonahoi_so i was accidentally almost right12:33
Jaksui got jolla but my screen is broken :/12:33
ggabrielJaksu: take it to a dna store and get it repaired if you live in .fi12:34
Jaksuim lazy and its cost :Dd12:34
ggabrielwell, yeah, but if you break something....12:35
pp_dna seemed to be selling discount jollas here, 299e for a display model :P12:35
ggabrielor just get a new one12:35
pp_hope they don't stop displaying one12:35
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Milo-great.. my phone shut itself down 2 times in the last 10 minutes when invoking a pulley menu in mail client.13:04
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joonahoi_Milo-: remove your battery for 10min13:05
Milo-why? :o13:05
joonahoi_because it seems to help13:05
Milo-because what looks like a software bug is actually a hardware issue?13:05
joonahoi_the bug will most likely get fixed in near future13:06
Milo-mkay13:06
joonahoi_yeah, seems like one. happens in multiple occasions13:06
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Milo-joonahoi_ okay, now it died as I touched the screen...14:18
Milo-I guess I'll have to keep the battery off for about 10 minutes..14:18
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HtheB:)14:43
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Milo-well, that was 30 minuts, but let's hope this makes it stable again.14:45
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fluxnooo, it should've been exactly 10 minutes!14:59
flux(just kidding ;-))14:59
Anz_how to edit community wiki :)14:59
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ShadowJKheh15:02
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Anz_* takes it back15:04
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ShadowJKOrdered 2 days ago screen protectors for jolla, one from a .fi shop, one from a .de shop.. Both arrived today15:06
ShadowJKgerman post is fast15:07
chem|stShadowJK: post or dhl?15:10
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ShadowJKpost15:57
stephgpre15:57
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sardinihello, question: how to test small change in a qml file without compile all the program and  deploy all on sdk just for a few pixel test16:11
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roborosardini: ssh into the emulator/device and edit the qml file there16:18
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roboroI often do this when handling layout issues16:19
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roboroI usually deploy to my jolla... then I find the qml files I want to muck with... if you deploy as rpm, the qml files for your app are usually in /usr/share/{appname}/qml16:21
roboroI think if you deploy as binaries then they are in /opt16:22
roboroor maybe that's changed16:22
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roboroI'm not sure, but you may need to restart the app after you modify a qml file... I don't think that they load as you switch through the pages... but I might be wrong on this16:23
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sardiniyes thank you roboro in  /opt16:28
roborohave fun...16:28
sardinia shortcut on qtcreator will be nice ...16:29
roboroheh... indeed16:29
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Nightmare__is there a harbour compliant way to prevent the phone switching the screen off? i use a dbus-call in my openrepos version, but it isn't allowed in harbour18:43
M4rtinKNightmare__: well, there was a discussion about it recently on the Sailfish-Devel mailing list18:44
M4rtinKIIRC the outcome was you can use the DBUS API18:44
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M4rtinKbut you have to call it from C++18:45
M4rtinKas the QML DBUS module is not yet stable/allowed in Harbour18:45
Nightmare__thx, i'll give it a try18:47
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Nightmare__M4rtinK: thx, seems to work19:27
M4rtinKNightmare__: good to hear that :)19:27
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chem|stanyone up for porting maemo extras?20:15
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tbrchem|st: hopefully  Chum, or whatever the community or Jolla will chose to call it will become a bit like maemo extras. when it comes to particular packages, there might be better options than porting ancient deb packaging to RPM, if newer and up to date RPM packaging exists for such.20:39
tbrchem|st: I'd suggest to discuss this with lbt and or on the mailing list20:40
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szopin_sailingextras devel? yes pls!20:41
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szopin_sailingoh extras... develless20:44
szopin_sailingthen again warehouse does for devel with no testing/promotes20:45
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tbrszopin_sailing: sure, it's the no-seatbelts option, easy but no security, no qa20:50
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szopin_sailingyeah, would be nice to not have to set up each repo though, it takes ages to update20:51
szopin_sailingextras-devel worked nice with all the warnings of coursr20:51
szopin_sailinghopefully jolla guys have something planned20:52
szopin_sailingstore or nothing with all restrictions in the store is meh20:53
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tbrszopin_sailing: have you seen the mailing list discussion?20:58
szopin_sailinglink?20:58
tbrhttps://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2014-February/003316.html20:59
tbrif you don't mind foul language you can also read the previous posts.20:59
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szopin_sailingty21:00
szopin_sailing:)21:00
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keithzgI'll still be sad personally that it's RPM rather than DEB, but that ship has long since sailed (ba-dum-TISH)22:37
keithzgOne more thing to hold against Intel, I guess :P22:38
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* Aard is pretty happy that we're using rpm :p22:57
Aardeven better would be "none of rpm or deb", but if I have to choose I'd go for rpm22:57
Turskipacman <322:59
Turski(not so sure if it would be suitable for a project like sailfish :P)22:59
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keithzgI'll admit, my hatred of RPM is probably antiquated. Post-traumatic stress disorder from RPM hell ;)23:13
keithzgOne of the servers I've inherited at my current job is relatively modern CentOS install and I've been pleasantly surpised how it doesn't break all the time when updating, heh.23:15
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chem|stkeithzg: no it is not... it is not actually RPM but the tools around it are so limited... people are even porting apt and aptitude to rpm based distros... for a reason!23:15
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chem|stboth systems have their pros and cons, but if I have to choose I end up with debian (I did my time with rpm..)23:18
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stephgI refer you to the old monastery mantra: all software sucks ;)23:21
stephg(and the corollary: all hardware blows, until you power it down)23:22
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Aardchem|st: apt/aptitude porting for rpm based distros was something from almost 10 years ago. nowadays stuff like zypper exists23:23
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chem|stAard: I am getting old and yes it is like 8 years since I had to touch rpm23:49
chem|stI am undecided if I like zypper or not23:50
Aardit was crap back when it got introduced into meego, but matured fast.23:50
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