#jollamobile log for Tuesday, 2014-03-11

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Andy80two days in a row that Jolla alarm doesn't ring. This really sucks a lot :(06:30
Andy80luckly I had the Lumia one set06:30
Stskeeps1.0.3.8?06:32
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Andy80Stskeeps, yes06:33
Andy80(battery at 80%, no SIM inside and wifi off)06:34
Andy80(sounds on)06:34
Stskeepshmm06:34
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chriadamAndy80: did it start playing the alarm as soon as you turned the display on, or did it not play at all?06:39
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Andy80chriadam, it did not play at all06:41
Andy80same yesterday. It's set to ring at 6:00 every day except Sat and Sun.06:41
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kimmoliAndy80: do you have any sounds at all?06:52
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kimmoliTwo possibilities that i can think of: your favorite enabled ambience overrides system clock alarm sound with something, or if no audio at all: you might have done something to audio as root, e.g. run csd -tool with root permissions.06:59
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Quusomeone (jubo) had same problem07:08
Quuhe had deleted all the sounds07:08
Quuand whined 4 days about it07:08
Quu"i have no ringtones"07:08
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Quuand it took 3 hours for me to tell that dipshit that he probably deleted his files07:09
raa70don't insult dipshits07:09
Quusorry.07:09
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Andy80kimmoli, sorry I was under the shower :P yes I have sounds and yes I have a custom ambiance. Actually I have the Aloa other half that customized everything.07:37
Andy80Quu, I didn't delete anything. I just attached the Aloa other half few days ago07:38
Quumm'kay07:38
Quudo you have the ambience still installed?07:38
Quuand the stupid tutorial app?07:38
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Andy80the ambiance is installed07:41
Andy80the tutorial I don't know07:42
Andy80I didn't remove anything07:42
Quuok, then i have no idea :)07:43
Quuis the sound set in ambiance settings?07:43
Quu... unless its the aloa-ambience, then you cant even change it07:44
Quuyou could SSH into it, set alarm and check what logs say07:45
Quuthat would probably give you sortof hint on whats wrong07:45
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Andy80the first 2 days with the Aloa toh the alarm was working I remember...07:49
Andy80now I've to run, I will check later when in the office maybe07:49
CoderCandyWait, you can't change ringtones and stuff with aloa?07:50
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Andy80only if you set another ambiance08:02
Andy80you can't customize it08:02
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Venemo_jhi :)09:11
Venemo_jmoo Stskeeps :)09:11
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Stskeepsm00 Venemo_j09:12
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Venemo_jStskeeps: how're you doing nowadays? I hope you're no longer that stressed out :)09:13
chem|stmuuuhoooohw09:14
StskeepsVenemo_j: i had a brilliant relaxing weekend09:14
Venemo_jStskeeps: great news :)09:15
StskeepsVenemo_j: now getting my work life in order and properly organized, so i can start having time for creative things again09:15
Venemo_jStskeeps: yeah, creativeness is very important09:16
Venemo_jStskeeps: I wish I had more time to do creative things myself09:16
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radekphi, any idea if one of these panels could be used for solar TOH? http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/products/oem-comparison-chart/09:19
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fluxthanks jolla. it apparently asked my pin code three times in a row in my pocket. happily it didn't enter puk code thrice.09:23
mornfallflux: it's those reboots...09:23
fluxit actually doesn't reboot09:24
fluxI think the sim card might be somehow badly connected, it often re-asks the pin code09:24
fluxI suppose it would be a huuuuge security problem if it just remembered the pin code..09:25
Nicd-solution: unlock your SIM ;)09:25
fluxactually it -did- ask the puk code I see09:25
fluxbecause when I opened the phone it was asking the re-enter the pin code09:25
fluxhappily it only sends the puk+new pin after managing to re-enter the pin-code09:26
fluxalso happily my 3g provider has the puk code on the web site, so I was easy to access..09:26
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chem|stflux: and you are concerned about security, your provider sotring those codes instead of having them only on disposable cards?09:36
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tbrflux: IIRC PUK has 10 attempts on most cards.09:40
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tbrflux: you might want to have a look at the little sensing pin in the sim card slot. if your card is not perfectly shaped it might slip or align wrongly.09:41
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coderuscan i get info about installing google play on jolla here?09:47
till_just google for the tutorial09:47
coderusdone, but starting Play Store showing window and immediately closing it09:48
FryeTry a reboot09:48
coderustried09:48
Azogcoderus: there is a good tutorial on t.j.c09:49
till_I did start the configuration app first afair09:49
FryeYou could try the settings app too. But I have had no issues when following the tutorial09:49
coderusgoogle settings starting okay09:50
FryeYou could try reinstalling the play store apk then09:50
till_running perfectly at my jolla, except for paid apps, they need some hacking :)09:51
FryeHehe09:51
FryeI'm playing clash of clans on my Jolla09:51
FryeNot tried those in-app purchases though09:51
till_i bought quizduell and sporcle09:52
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till_had to copy some files manually09:52
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till_but now it's working perfectly09:52
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coderushm, doing same things again and it working now :D10:00
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fluxchem|st, I actually was not concerned of security, but someone might be against a root-running daemon that has the pin code in plain text in memory10:03
fluxtbr, thanks, I'll take a look10:03
fluxtbr, it's one of those home-cut sim cards, though I did use a tool made for the task, so it is a bit rough on the edges10:04
coderusandroid have access to gps?10:04
till_yes10:04
coderuscool :)10:05
fluxchem|st, I don't know why I would be really worried about the provider storing access codes for accessing their own sim cards10:05
chem|stflux: cause they hold the encrypted simcards as well... never heard of don't store your banking card pin with your card?10:06
fluxchem|st, I have heard it, but how is that relevant? the bank surely stores the pin code..10:07
fluxencrypted or not, they store it in a manner that can be reversed10:07
chem|stsure all of it is a flaw... just like the appraised SMS-TAN10:07
fluxgiven the code is so short it is impossible to store it in a non-reversible manner10:08
flux(assuming at least it's possible to verify if a given code matches it)10:08
FireFlyhm10:08
chem|stflux: as soon as I have my phone stolen or anything I can lock my simcard online or by phone within minutes10:09
chem|stwhat you cannot lock is your private data on your phone so you should lock that away before that happens10:10
fluxwell, I'm as not talking about phone locking10:10
chem|stflux: and as the record reflects, custom-cut simcards have issues10:10
fluxI was talking about the scenario that the connection to the sim card flipflops and it needs to be re-authenticated10:10
fluxin those cases if jolla had access to the pin code, I would not even notice it10:11
fluxperhaps a log entry somewhere, or a warning if it happens often enough10:11
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FireFlymaybe it could vibrate a bit when the pin entry screen is shown, so that one would be notified even if it's in the pocket10:13
fluxyeah, n9 vibrates on pin code entry10:13
gabriel9|workupdate :D10:13
gabriel9|workno10:13
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SpeedEvilFrom memory, asking for the PIN 'live' is actually required to be a proper phone.10:14
SpeedEvilBut that may not be cared about10:14
SpeedEvilIn principle, 'sim toolkit' functions - including PIN request should go direct to the user.10:15
fluxI think n900 had this ninja-reboot functionality that actually remembered the pin code over some watchdog-induced reboots..10:15
flux(or maybe it simply didn't turn off the sim functionality over reboot10:15
SpeedEvilIt's possible that the n900 modem diddn't turn off10:15
SpeedEvilCPU reboots are irrelevant10:15
SpeedEvil^application CPU10:15
chem|stonly if the modem fails and needs restarting pincodes are requested10:16
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tbrflux: the sensing pin is in the cut off corner of the sim.10:28
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ln-as i understand from tjc, TOHs cannot be reused by another user after the ambience has been installed once. i think that is going to be a problem not only for the users, but also for Jolla.10:57
CoderCandySecond hand market of TOHs will be nonexistant10:57
mornfalldo we have a native sound recording app?10:58
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CoderCandyln-: also, it is connected to your jolla-account, so a user can reinstall the ambiance if needed.10:59
ln-yes, so i figured. but if you sell your phone or a TOH, the buyer can't get ambiences.11:00
CoderCandyYeah, as I said, second hand TOH-market will be nonexistant.11:01
CoderCandyAnd that's sortof sad :(11:01
FireFlyln-: hm, souds DRM-y11:02
FireFlyAh11:02
CoderCandyOh, a live FireFly!11:03
CoderCandyHi11:03
FireFlyHi11:03
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chem|stconcept is kinda borked11:06
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CoderCandychem|st: of DRM TOHs or TOHs in general?11:07
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chem|stthe whole thing seems to be not thought through properly atm11:09
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chem|stDRM TOH,NFC without antenna, you need to sell your jolla account with your phone11:09
FireFlyMaybe a together discussion on the topic would be a good idea11:10
claufor a few days now, every once in a while when I unlock the phone I get a blank screen. going to events view fixes it. has anyone else seen this?11:10
FireFlyblank as in only black, but backlit?11:11
chem|stclau: every once in a while yes11:11
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FireFlyI've had that occasionaly, although my workaround is to turn the screen off and then on again11:11
CoderCandyclau: yup, rather often in fact11:11
CoderCandyBut I mainly just complain about crashes, since I can live with that bug.11:11
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chem|stseems it is that something buggers the dinghy so only the light goes on11:12
clauFireFly: yes, it's backlit. just entirely black.11:12
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CoderCandyAfter the crash-bugfix I'll start complaining about that though :p11:13
clau:)11:13
chem|stwould be nice if people stop complaining about the same issues over and over again... we are all waiting for an update and I have not enough goats to make it any faster11:13
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chem|stFireFly: start a tjc I'll join'ya11:14
CoderCandychem|st: eh, I don't constantly complain about it, but from time to time...11:14
chem|stCoderCandy: it is the mass of people, not a single individual11:14
FireFlychem|st: I don't have the time for that at the moment11:15
ln-the greatest problem with TOH DRM is that i haven't seen it being mentioned anywhere even though i even bought the Aloe TOH separately.11:15
CoderCandyBut I understand the mass... When a phone gets a bug that renders it pretty much unusable it's a rather bug issue.11:15
chem|stFireFly: waht should I call it? "Bug you need to sell your soul with your jolla"?11:15
FireFlyHaha11:16
FireFly"Discussion about after-market for jollas" or something?11:16
pp_:-)11:16
chem|stI like mine more11:16
FireFlyFair enough :p11:16
FireFlyI kinda like it too11:16
pp_hopefully there'll be some useful 3rd party TOH's with no NFC :-)11:16
FireFlyIs there a 'philosophy' tag?11:16
pp_or was there some no commercial use clause?11:17
CoderCandypp_: There was in the design documents11:17
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AcceI hope they'll fix the second-hand TOH problem, we all remember XBox one, don't we..11:17
CoderCandyBut I guess you can get a deal with Jolla if you ask.11:18
FireFlyAcce: I remember it like last year!11:18
FireFly...oh wait11:18
pp_otherwise I'll stick with the red one, wouldn't mind a black one with say wireless charging (not to mention qwerty :P )11:19
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pp_plastic + drm'd ringtones, no way :-)11:20
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chem|stFireFly: https://together.jolla.com/question/32775/bug-you-need-to-sell-your-soul-with-your-jolla/11:20
chem|stI wont sell any of this in the near future, I would need a N950 to complete the history order but well... N900 N9 Jolla is fair enough11:22
chem|stpp_: are the tunes drm'd?11:23
chem|stat least I had no issues playing them or exporting them elsewhere11:24
Stskeepswe don't have anything remotely drm in the os11:24
chem|stStskeeps: yeah would wonder if so11:24
Sfiet_Konstantinchem|st: the drm was linked to the fact that OH ambiences are linked to one jolla account11:25
chem|stSfiet_Konstantin: yeah thought so but as pp_ mentioned drm for ringtones I asked11:26
Sfiet_Konstantinchem|st: nope, there are no drm11:27
Sfiet_Konstantinand for ringtones, it could be quite strange11:27
Sfiet_Konstantinfor music from well known artists, i can understand drm, but not for some ringtones11:28
chem|stStskeeps: FYI my cellreception seems to degrade, any idea how to log that over time?11:28
Stskeepsnot offhand but it's there in ril11:29
pp_well, behind nfc chip credentials, sure you can just copy them around afterwards11:29
pp_:)11:29
chem|stsame spot in my office and at home were approx. -14dBm and are now approx. -9dBm, I would not notice if it wasn't for bad reception anyways but kinda strange as I think it started of with max indicator in January (whatever damping factor that was back then)11:32
chem|stpp_: the chips are empty... its only the uuid11:33
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SpeedEvilchem|st: weather matters11:48
SpeedEvilWetness of builting materials, leaves or no leaves on trees11:48
chem|stSpeedEvil: so rain and snowy weather makes better reception?11:49
SpeedEvilchem|st: Well - no11:49
SpeedEvilIn general, wet stuff absorbs more radio.11:49
chem|stSpeedEvil: we have a one week high and almost mid spring out here11:50
SpeedEvilBut - snow is less absorbing than water, and leaves absorb a lot11:50
chem|stI know11:50
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chem|sttrees with leaves are like a massive water barrier for MF signals11:52
roboroyou mean my secret lair behind the waterfall is why I can't get reception on my Jolla all this time?!!!11:53
roborojust teasing... I get better reception on my Jolla than on my crappy Android phone11:53
chem|stI was like 30m to the next free hotspot in direct sight but right in the middle is a huge tree...11:54
FryeOk, guys. I have a confession to make.11:54
chem|stroboro: I did as well, it just seems weakened over time11:54
FryeToday I'm ditching my iPhone as my primary device.11:54
chem|stFrye: you are an alien?11:54
FryeAnd off to Jolla it is completely!11:54
roborothat's not a confession11:54
roborothat's a conversion11:54
Frye:D11:54
FryeUpgrade really11:55
chem|stFrye: can I have the iPhone? the design fits my coffeetable and I need more trivets11:55
Fryehehe nope, it's my companys phone11:55
chem|stI am looking for iPads as well, they would make awesome planter trivets11:56
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chem|stFrye: I'd wait for the next update, before I'd swap, my N9 modem forced me too, and no I have a dumbphone...11:58
chem|stnow11:58
FryeI have no issues with the current one.11:58
FryeWorks better than iPhone and eats less battery11:58
chem|stthat for sure11:58
chem|stpeople look at me like crazy when I tell that I charge about twicce a week... for androids it is sometimes twice a day11:59
Fryehehe11:59
Fryeyeah11:59
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FryeNow that my device has had no sim for a while it's been charge once / two weeks.12:00
Fryeor maybe 1,5x / two weeks12:00
FryeOnly on wlan12:00
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chem|stI loose 7-18%/d depending on usage of course12:01
Fryeyeah, I had one day of no use and it was 4% loss12:02
FryeI have iPhone on no use and its more than 40% loss :D12:02
FryeI'll have this company phone serviced just in case it's broken.12:03
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chem|stFrye: it records audio, takes pictures and indexes your files for the NSA all day long... for sure that eats battery12:04
Frye:D12:04
chem|stiPhones NSA internal name is Zombies12:05
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Venemo_jchem|st: if you use the jolla like they use those androids, you'll need to charge twice a day too12:09
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leinirmine around about lasts a day12:10
leinirabout an hour or so of bluetooth connected music playing, and a lot of twittering (using plume, so android there as well)12:10
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suosaaskiTook a while, but now it's here: http://lastucase.com/product/lastucase-jolla/12:11
inffy_was just about to paste that :)12:15
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suosaaskiSo I guess the little birds were right, although took about a month longer than I expected :)12:15
suosaaskiI have the iPhone version and I think I would definitely buy that if I had a Jolla phone.12:17
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roboroEUR49 is quite steep... but it looks good... and the pouches for cards is a great addition12:23
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suosaaskiI thought it was pretty steep, too, when I bought the iPhone version, but I would not buy "yet another" 20e case anymore, they all look the same :)12:28
suosaaskiIn fact, I also bought a case for my ipad mini as well, as I was pretty satisfied with it. And for my wifes iPhone...12:28
Nicd-no case for iphone 4 :/12:29
suosaaskiThey did have one. Apparently not available anymore...12:29
roborosuosaaski: I've been waiting for a decent flip cover for a while now... so I might go with this...12:30
suosaaskihttps://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1/75064_553519824658656_654543083_n.jpg12:30
roborohow bendy is the leather front? does it flip closed on its own when you have it laid open... or is it soft enough to remain open...12:31
suosaaskithe only downside that I might see someone wanting, is that there is no magnet to keep the case closed.12:31
roboromeh... I can live with that....12:31
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suosaaskiit tooks a few days for the leather to "set". At first it does not stay closed, but I just kept the phone display down with cover closed for a few nights and now it's kinda perfect.12:32
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roboroI often like to have my phone on my desk... ready to interact with as I need... so I don't want to have to keep opening the front cover12:32
suosaaskiThere is nothing hard in the cover, so it is as bendy as leather gets if you don't keep cards in it.12:32
roborobut I want to be able to close the cover when I put it in my pocket12:32
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* roboro just bought a lastucase12:43
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tabaskoroboro: how jolla+lastu feels at hand? thicker12:48
tabasko?12:48
osaton /me too12:48
roborotabasko: I'll let you know when its delivered :)12:48
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roboroprobably a bit thicker... although it looks like its integrated into a non-functional TOH... so not much12:49
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roboroheh... I'm getting it engraved with my IRC nick :D:D:D12:54
Nicd-I engraved my website's address into my previous ipod's back... then the hoster closed my account and the address changed :/12:55
roborolol12:55
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Sfiet_KonstantinNicd-: well, at least your host won't tell you to change your irc nick12:55
roborosome bastid is probably going to steal my irc nick :)12:55
suosaaskihttps://www.facebook.com/lastucase/photos_stream there are some engraving samples12:55
* roboro should register it...12:55
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Sfiet_Konstantinso basically you can carve anything12:56
Sfiet_Konstantinthis is nice :)12:56
suosaaskiYes, although some engravings on that page are probably not free...12:56
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roborommmm I should have been more creative :)12:56
roborohttps://www.facebook.com/lastucase/photos/pb.352552534755387.-2207520000.1394542563./755346217809348/?type=3&theater12:56
roborodo not try at home12:56
suosaaskiI was not creative, either, I just ordered without engraving cos I couldn't think of any text to engrave it. Later noticed that page and realized I probably could have thought it out a bit more :)12:58
suosaaskiwifes case is engraved full of hearts :)12:58
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narchiewow Lastu were pretty fast13:06
narchieII just got my black toh13:06
narchieand now I need to order a new one13:06
grzywaczwhy?13:07
inffy_a lastu one i guess13:07
narchiegrzywacz: because lastu13:08
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grzywaczI thought it sticks to whatever toh you have, instead of replacing it?13:09
suosaaskigrzywacz: new version has a screen cover and toh included13:10
grzywaczah, the cover one, got it!13:10
grzywaczHeh, super nice, but damn expensive :(13:10
suosaaskidepends on how you look at it :)13:12
grzywaczI look at it from the perspective of not earning my living in Finland. :D13:13
suosaaski:/13:13
pp_24% will go into taking care of old people! It's a BARGAIN13:15
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suosaaskiwell, most basic cases in finland cost 20-30e anyway, so that is "only" a price of two basic cases :)13:21
mornfalltoo bad lastu doesn't make an actual TOH though :)13:21
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grzywaczsunkan, more like 100eur for me if scaled by average salary :P13:22
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suosaaskiyes and no, it has the other half (which makes it more compact than normal cases), but it does not include NFC chip, so no custom theme etc.13:22
mornfallsuosaaski: it doesn't include the TOH bit either, you have to glue it yourself :)13:23
suosaaskimornfall: you are probably talking about a different product.13:23
mornfallthe only one I found13:23
suosaaskihttp://lastucase.com/product/lastucase-jolla/13:23
mornfallhttp://lastucase.com/product/lastu-arc-jolla13:23
suosaaskiannounced today13:23
mornfallah, ok13:24
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narchieice13:24
mornfallonly catch, I don't buy leather... but yeah, it is a nice idea13:24
Nicd-ooh, it's reindeer leather13:26
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Venemo_jStskeeps: so, march 14? :)13:30
Stskeepsmarch 201413:30
Venemo_jhahah :)13:31
mornfallVenemo_j: Aard said "hopefully less than 10 days" last Sunday I think, that'd make March 14th the last "good" date :)13:31
Venemo_jcome on, throw us a bone13:31
ggabrielthey said this week last week in twitter, right?13:31
ggabrielso, friday at most?13:31
* Aard throws Venemo_j a tiny chicken bone13:32
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ggabrielchicken bones are dangerous13:32
Venemo_jthanks Aard13:32
ggabrielVenemo_j: as your attorney i advise you against chewing on it13:33
Venemo_jggabriel: I knew I could count on you :P13:34
* ggabriel is away from his jolla until friday so can wait ;-)13:34
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Venemo_jpoor ggabriel, what happened to your precious?13:34
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ggabrielVenemo_j: i'm away from home and didn't bring the jolla with me13:35
ggabrielbiz travel, sucks really13:35
Venemo_jggabriel: you're travelling to a cave?13:35
ggabrielno, but i don't want to bring all my electronics :)13:35
ggabrieli bring most of them tho :P13:36
Venemo_jor how come you don't need your phone?13:36
ggabrieli still use the n9 as main13:36
pp_I was optimistic and upgraded to a 4G subscription that should start on thursday :P13:36
pp_lessee what happens13:36
mornfallggabriel: travelling to Brazil? :P13:36
Venemo_jah, N9... how old fashioned13:36
ggabrieln9 is awesome13:36
ggabrielvery slow if you fill the emms with maps tho13:36
mornfallVenemo_j: c'mon, my wife inherited my N900 :)13:36
Venemo_jI didn't say it's not still cool13:37
ggabrieli need caldav+paid applications man13:37
ggabrielelse i can't move on13:37
mornfallwhen jolla drops the price to half I'll get her one though, although she might be getting addicted to a physical keyboard13:37
pp_fastern9 gives it bit more life13:37
ggabrieloh, and the n9 can still be used as a decent enough satnav13:38
ggabrielwhich is cool13:38
mornfallyeah, heremaps on jolla suck :\13:38
Venemo_jfastern9 only made it slower for me13:38
Stskeepsany good offline maps for android on jolla ooi?13:38
mornfallStskeeps: I use mapy.cz, which kinda works, but drains battery like crazy (also, data only for .cz)13:38
mornfallStskeeps: maep works surprisingly well, but the process of prefetching tiles is arduous13:39
Plnt+1 for mapy.cz13:39
Plntespecially for the offline maps including cycle tracks13:39
mornfallPlnt: it's somewhat omnious that it doubles the power consumption over maep though13:39
Plntbut it's offline for .cz, the rest of the world is online only and bitmap instead of vector13:40
mornfall(~1W vs ~2W for walking around with AGPS)13:40
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Plntmornfall: oh.. that's quite a difference. i didn't used it that heavily so i didn't noticed.13:41
mornfallyeah, with the 8Wh battery in jolla, this is full to empty in 4 hours13:42
PlntStskeeps: also there is a hack for google maps (i didn't tried that on jolla) which allows you to cache part of the map for offline usage .. "OK Maps" .. http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2014/02/offline-google-maps/13:42
mornfall(that's with the display on, which isn't realistic for continuous use of course)13:42
mornfallPlnt: maep-qt has an unlimited, persistent tile cache, but no downloader for it13:43
mornfallPlnt: so you need to look at everything you are going to use ahead of time13:43
chem|stAard: I had the impression Jolla sacrifices goats only?! Don't throw your lunch at people! :D13:43
mornfallbut OSM data is pretty good most of the time13:43
Aardchem|st: goats? where did you hear that?13:44
Plntmornfall: that's nice. i wasn't aware of that app.13:44
Aardwe only use teenage virgins13:44
WntI have been wondering how hard task would it to port the N9 Nokia maps software to Sailfish. Or create a chroot environment where one could use the whole Harmattan OS and it would appear like the Android compatibility layer, as one application in the UI13:44
mornfallAard: not supplying in the US then, I guess :-P13:44
Plntwhat's also good offline map for android is this .. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mapfactor.navigator13:44
Plntfree, uses osm13:45
chem|stAard: Stskeeps asked me to sacrifice goats or actually he asked for two goats13:45
mornfallWnt: you want wayland-x11 or something I guess :)13:45
mornfallxwayland was it called?13:45
Nicd-chem|st: maybe he meant teenage virgin goats13:45
mornfallNicd-: good luck finding any :-)13:45
AardWnt: hard. we don't do x11, we don't do qt4, we don't do meegotouch, ...13:45
Stskeeps.. definately don't go wrt..13:46
Stskeeps+d13:46
Wntmornfall: yep, I think there already exist few parts of the system that one could do to achieve Harmattan OS "emulation"13:46
mornfallAard: qt4 and qt5 can live along just fine13:46
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chem|stNicd-: I don't think so, and I cannot tell which goat is a virgin or not13:47
mornfallit's all just libs, as long as jolla can talk X11 it should mostly work, at least in theory13:47
mornfallchem|st: because you totally can with humans :)13:47
Aardmornfall: there may be several lips linking to qt which have same names on harmattan and on jolla -> you'd really should put  the whole harmattan fs somewhere and use it as container13:48
Aardthen the next problem you'll have (even if you manage to do x11 stuff) is hardware access13:48
mzanettiam I the only one who gets a highlight for "all:" everytime someone replies to mornfall? :)13:48
mornfallmzanetti: most likely :D13:49
Wntof course this emulation system could not be redistributed, but someone could develop some kind of bootstrap scripts for N9 users to exctart the emulation environment from open source software and software that's on their N9 devices13:49
Nicd-mzanetti: fix your regex :P13:49
mzanettiheh13:49
mornfallAard: right, that's more of a problem13:49
mornfallAard: and considering that porting apps from N9 isn't all that bad, it's probably a waste of time13:49
mornfallAard: now porting commercial apps is not going to happen if harbour doesn't support that13:50
Aardit'll support it at some point13:50
mornfallAard: so go poke whomever is responsible for that :D13:50
mornfallalso, the harbour dashboard when they are at it ;-)13:50
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chem|stmornfall: does not matter, as I am a magician14:27
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mornfallactually, I sort of wish the builtin messaging app could natively proxy through bitlbee15:03
mornfall(plugging in ZNC in between would make it reasonably possible to share IM history between the phone and the laptop)15:03
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Yanielhehe15:03
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stn^hmh i've been thinking how my battery was drained quickly today, apparently mitakuuluu ran all day at around 98% cpu usage16:12
raa70nice16:13
raa70I was just about to whine to coderus why mitäkuuluu doesnt work in our workplace wlan... exept today it mysteriously worked16:13
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pdanekShould I go with btrfs or ext4 for microsd on Jolla?16:58
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* Yaniel went for btrfs17:04
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pdanekYaniel: why?17:04
Yanieland having to manually mount it after every reboot17:04
Yanielit is (intended to be) better for flash memory17:05
Yanielit also sounds funny17:05
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pdanekYaniel: why manual mount?17:10
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Yanielbecause automount does not work17:10
Yanielexcept for fat32 and (maybe) exfat17:11
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Nicd-don't think it works for exfat yet17:11
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Yanielanyway mount-sd-onboot.service fails17:12
pdanekah17:12
Yanielit might use something like mount.fat or mount -t fat32, haven't checked17:13
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khertanHi, did you think it will be dangerous (explosion) of putting the battery with the jolla in a blender, or i should do it without the battery ?17:40
chem|stkhertan: no should be fine with battery17:40
roborobut will it blend?!!!17:41
chem|stroboro: I am sure it does17:41
Yanielwith a sufficiently powerful blender...17:41
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roborohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy1WNc4buPk17:43
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roboroblendtec blender blending a blendtec blender17:44
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Turskiyo dawg...17:53
kimmoliyou forget to prefix "Hey, i have a funny video for you: " ??17:53
flanagDamn.. it seems that I have to send my Jolla in for repairs, as I have the faulty sim card holder (you can test by taking the other half off and lightly pressing on the sim). Has anyone done this yet? How fast/slow is Optima service?17:53
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flanag(and if you don't know what's the problem, it's that the Jolla loses the sim card connection when in pocket and it also might cause all these random shutdowns/reboots)17:55
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cb400fusing an "official" sim card? ... or home carved one?17:56
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flanagofficial, bought just for Jolla (I previously had a mini sim, not micro)17:57
flanagit's a known problem, nothing to do with the sim17:57
flanaghere: https://together.jolla.com/question/1358/sim-card-connection-to-phone-lost-easily/17:57
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flanagsomeone already sent it for repairs and said that it fixed the problem (pressing on the sim card holder no longer causes the sim to be lost)17:58
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flanagjust writing here to see if anybody has anything to share about the Optima service17:59
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Wntflanag: I had my Jolla's speaker changed in the Optima service. They were really fast18:01
flanagThanks for sharing Wnt, how fast they were actually? Only a couple of days?18:02
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WntI left my phone for repair on tuesday and got it back on monday I think18:02
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Wntso 4 business days if I remember correctly18:02
flanagOk, not too bad18:03
Wntand I guess 2 days out of that time it was the shipment from DNA store to them and back18:03
flanagit's just a shame that my old phone has a mini sim card slot and this micro sim really doesn't fit in there..18:04
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Wntflanag: use some bubblegum in between :D18:04
flanag:P18:04
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flanagI wonder how common this problem really is, are all the sim brackets faulty in the devices produced in 2013 for example?18:05
Nicd-you'd *know* if it was all of them18:07
Nicd-that would be a huge problem18:07
WntI have seen the "SIM error, must reboot" message few times on my device, but mobile data connections, calls etc. were working fine even after the message18:07
Wntso I have just ignored the error messages18:08
flanagnot necessarily Nicd-.. I didn't have the problem in the first months but it has appeared now18:08
Nicd-I've had no problems with the SIM at all18:08
Nicd-and I got one of the first devices18:08
kimmolimee too. no problems.18:08
flanagI think the sim bracket might have loosened18:08
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flanaghave you tried pressing on the sim bracket lightly?18:09
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flanagyou would see if you have a faulty bracket18:09
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jpnurmimornfall: i've kindly asked jolla dev care to lend me a device for communi-sailfish development. it's been about three weeks - no response18:10
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Wntflanag: wow! the device complains about the simcard as soon as I pressed on the back cover18:10
flanagyup..18:10
mornfalljpnurmi: jolla dev care, does that even exist? :P18:10
ln-my phone has had an issue with sim from the beginning... it just doesn't happen very often in my use case (i'm not keeping the phone in my pocket on a daily basis)18:10
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Wntflanag: but after dismissing the dialog mobile data works without problems18:11
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flanagyeah but you know now that you have a faulty bracket :)18:11
jpnurmimornfall: heh, that's what @jollahq forwarded me to. am i waiting for an answer from /dev/null? :P18:12
flanagsomeone said after a service that no matter how hard he pressed on the sim bracket, it didn't disconnect18:12
flanagso they definitely have identified the problem and it can be fixed18:13
ln-i had to press on the sim bracket to make the phone detect the sim at all.18:13
mornfalljpnurmi: no idea, all outside relations of jolla seem to be kinda /dev/null-ish18:13
flanagwould really love to see how many people can make the sim connection fail if they press on the sim bracket18:14
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mornfallflanag: I can18:14
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flanagI'm thinking that all the devices produced in 2013 all faulty18:14
mornfallflanag: I suspect that's the case, yes18:14
mornfalltight pants and jolla don't mix18:15
flanagI'm just wondering why I had no problems in the beginning.. today I lost the sim connection twice18:15
Nicd-I had to press really hard18:15
Nicd-and remove TOH18:15
mornfallflanag: the phone is falling apart in more than one sense it seems :P I had lots of SW problems recently, so far removing the battery for 20 minutes has solved them18:16
flanagthis problem is annoying because some have suspected that this also causes the sudden (and I mean sudden, just black out) shutdowns18:16
mornfallflanag: (~4 reboots yesterday, none today so far)18:16
flanagmornfall: have you seen the Jolla just power off (just goes black in a sec) and not restart?18:17
Nicd-I don't think the shutdown issue is because of the SIM connection18:18
Nicd-at least not the only reason18:18
mornfallflanag: once maybe, I don't remember really18:19
flanagI think it is because mine shutdown today (just went black, didn't reboot) and when I started it up and entered PIN -> bang, same again.. then I restarted again and just skipped the PIN question and it stayed on18:19
flanagafter a while I rebooted it and entered my PIN now --> bang, again just shut itself after entering the ping and waiting 10 secs maybe18:20
flanaggot it working now but I suspect this is connected to the sim bracket problem in some way18:20
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ln-flanag: i seem to be able to make the sim disconnect every time by pressing with my finger about 1cm below the flashlight.18:22
flanagyup, you definitely have the problem18:22
ln-an indeed the very first time that i entered a SIM to the phone, it was not detected at all, which was a bit unexpected.18:23
ln-+d18:23
flanagI think I am going to wait that we get the new update so if that messes something up, I can just send it for repair and get both problems fixed at the same time :P18:24
ln-good planning :)18:24
Turskiflanag: i can't make it fail18:25
flanagTurski: did you take TOH off and then press (gently) on the sim bracket directly?18:25
flanagthat way I can make it fail every time18:25
Turskiflanag: i wouldn't call it a gentle press18:25
ln-i know three other Jolla users (very early adopters all), but at least none of them has ever mentioned SIM card trouble.18:26
Turskiflanag: but yes, i took TOH off and pressed it18:26
flanagTurski: when did you get your Jolla?18:26
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Turskiflanag: at the launching party18:27
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flanagah ok, mine is from a DNA shop (nearly as soon as they started selling it)18:27
flanagis your production date 11/2013? I'm thinking yours might be earlier than mine, as you got it from the launch party18:27
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Turskiflanag: yes18:28
flanagok, well it's a relief for Jolla because if all the early (2013) devices were suffering from this, they would have a lot to repair18:28
flanagthe problem is still fairly widespread I think18:29
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Blizzzheyo18:30
keithzgHmm. I suppose I should actually bother putting a SIM in mine and testing that, just in case.18:30
flanagI wonder how painful it is to send the phone for repair if you are not from Finland? Will Jolla pay the postages? Luckily I don't have to think about this but some might have to18:30
Turskiflanag: which operator you have?18:30
flanagTele Finland18:30
Turskisince i haven't had any problems with neither DNA's or Tele Finland's micro sims18:31
flanag(it's a new sim, just bought for Jolla)18:31
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Turskiflanag: btw, are you 100% sure it's pushed till the very end of the slot?18:31
Turski(i assume yes)18:31
flanagI think it's just the bracket, as some people have sent it for service and it has been fixed (they are using the same sim)18:31
Blizzzmy jolla is stuck in a infinite boot loop. recently I suffered https://together.jolla.com/question/7144/jolla-randomly-shuts-down/ which was only annoying, but since today my Jolla does not finish booting, but is stuck in an infinity loop. When I take out the battery and put it back again, it automatically starts to act likewise. anybody knows what to da?18:31
flanagit is pushed all the way18:31
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flanagTurski: http://foorumi.jollasuomi.fi/index.php/topic,25.30.html18:32
Turskiflanag: that switch in the socket just looks very sensitive about the position18:32
flanagand: https://together.jolla.com/question/1358/sim-card-connection-to-phone-lost-easily/18:32
StskeepsBlizzz: recovery mode18:32
Turskiflanag: i've had mode problems with random reboots/shutdowns18:32
flanagyup, it's sensitive but I think they have figured out how to fix it (replace it)18:32
flanagStskeeps: do you have anything to share about this sim problem? would be nice to know18:33
Turskii don't believe they replace anything, other than whole device ;)18:33
Stskeepsflanag: sorry; i'm just a dreamer and a sw guy :)18:33
flanagok then :p18:34
Stskeepsflanag: if you have a problem with your jolla and you suspect it's a hardware problem, contact care18:34
Blizzzis there an official howto?18:34
BlizzzStskeeps: ^18:34
Stskeepshttps://together.jolla.com/question/22079/howto-all-pc-users-recover-or-reset-a-device-that-is-stuck-in-boot-loop/18:34
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flanagthe fact that lifting the other half ends the reboot loops (at least some of them) would suggest that it's a sim problem18:35
Sail0rwhere is the eta bot? ;)18:35
flanagas someone said that lifting TOH helped even though they had removed the NFC tag18:36
raa70it's on the same channel with half life 3 eta bot18:36
Blizzzthx, I'll try18:36
TurskiSail0r: it would just keep saying Soonâ„¢18:37
flanagTurski: at least some have said that Optima service replaced their sim bracket (we can't of course know if Optima actually do that but I would believe so)18:37
Sail0rTurski: or "when it is doneâ„¢"18:37
TurskiSail0r: ;)18:37
keithzgHmm interesting, the only options for Network Mode are "Prefer 3G" and "2G Only", no "3G Only" eh?18:38
flanagyeah, that's been requested18:38
Quuyou cant use 3G if there are no 3G18:38
flanagbut Quu, in other operating systems you have the option for only 3G18:38
Quuit does the same as 3G preferred18:38
Quuits just named diffrently18:39
flanagI have seen 3G preferred, 2G only, 3G only18:39
keithzgNope.18:39
flanagI think at least18:39
keithzgOn the N9, I have it set to 3G only18:39
Turskii wouldn't want to lose all connectivity when out of 3G...18:39
keithzgwhich is different than 3G preferred.18:39
QuuTurski: seems like some people want to18:39
keithzgMy carrier ONLY operates on 3G, any 2G connection is roaming for me.18:39
flanagyes you would want to lose it.. because atm the Jolla switches to 2G far too easily18:40
ShadowJKBecause sometimes operator has phones go to 2g even if there's usable 3g signal18:40
flanagand that ruins everything really..18:40
flanagas it takes too much time until it changes back to 3G18:40
Turskithen prefer 3G is a lie..18:40
flanagyeah18:40
Turski(just like the cake)18:40
flanagbut I just think it's too sensitive18:41
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ShadowJKAs I understand it, the phone reports signal strength of current tower, and all towers it can hear, and operator side tells phone when to change to something else18:41
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flanagmy reception has been better on my Jolla than my previous phone but it just changes to 2G too easily, this has also been reported on together.jolla18:42
ShadowJKSo "prefer 3g" is a lie in the sense that it assumes operator would want to steer phones to 3g, as its more efficient18:42
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keithzgPersonally I'd be entirely okay with losing connectivity and having to manually drop down to 2G if my signal was truly that bad; again, that's exactly what I do with my N9. Obviously for the Jolla it's a purely academic point for me, but I can imagine others wanting (or needing) to preclude 2G usage, especially if folks are finding it too easily failing over anyways.18:43
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flanagkeithzg, I agree18:43
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flanagI think there could even be a mode that would drop down to 2G only after the 3G signal has been lost for 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 seconds (whatever you prefer)18:44
ljpbut then you would miss phone calls18:45
flanagI don't really care.. the phone is just too slow to change back to 3G18:45
ShadowJKProblem with all this is that you'd not get certificaton :-)18:45
flanagand it ruins everything if I need quickly look something up on the internet18:46
ShadowJK(i.e. phone wouldn't be allowed to be a phone if it doesn't follow rules)18:46
keithzgShadowJK: Heh. Surely though "3G only" would pass certification (considering both the N9 and Android have it).18:46
ShadowJKYes18:46
flanagthey should at least include that18:46
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ShadowJKAfaiui, phone logs off, then logs in again claiming it doesn't do 2g18:47
flanagI don't really know anything, but I think that this 3G only mode shouldn't be too hard to implement18:48
flanagor what do you say?18:48
ShadowJKWell it all depends on whether the modem supports it or not :j18:48
tango_hm so I turned off my jolla today to put in the microsim (first time since I bought it), I turn it back on and *puff* the media library forgot all the stuff that was on the sd card18:49
flanagwell I think all the android phones have this option and Jolla is using similar (or exactly the same) hardware18:49
tango_two questions (1) is it a known problem and (2) if so is there an easy way to tell jolla to rescan18:49
flanagI think there was a way to tell it to rescan18:49
flanagand I also think it is known18:49
tango_(the media app is pretty sucky btw when there are lots of artists songs and albums, due to the lack of a search functionality, but that's a different thing)18:50
keithzgIt's still tracker, right?18:50
keithzgSo probably tracker-control --hard-reset18:50
keithzgAlthough that'd force a full reset of it all AFAIK18:51
flanagmight be that, I can't find where I saw it before18:51
keithzgI'd try "tracker-control --help-all" and look through and see if there's a less-nuclear option, heh.18:52
flanagmight be a good plan to do that first, yeah18:52
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flanagso, anyone else want to try if their phone has the sim bracket problem?18:53
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BlizzzStskeeps: needed some attempts, but now it is alive again. thank you so much for the hint!18:53
Stskeepsflanag: fwiw it's not a good idea to press in general18:53
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flanagStskeeps: I only need to touch it really18:54
flanagI'm not breaking anything18:54
flanagand it also happens in my pocket18:54
keithzgflanag: I actually just tried pushing gently on the SIM bracket on mine after putting in a SIM card, since it's not like I'm likely to ever be able to *use* it anyways, heh. But even a fairly firm push didn't disconnect it.18:54
flanagit just would be nice to know if some of the reboots/shut downs are connected to this sim bracket problem18:55
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flanagas I said earlier, lifting the other half usually ends the reboot loop, so it seems to be connected18:55
flanag*connected to the problem I mean18:56
ln-flanag: i just asked two people, and 50% of them could reproduce the issue, although had not encountered disconnects otherwise.18:56
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Nicd-purposefully pressing on the sim card holder is asking for trouble though :P18:56
flanagyeah, I just think that it gets loosened after a while and that's why many people don't see any problems (without pressing)18:57
Nicd-I got a disconnect too like that but I don't have issues otherwise18:57
flanagI didn't see any problems in the first months18:57
flanagbut now I have started getting these18:57
Nicd-flanag: do you remove your SIM often?18:57
flanagnope18:57
flanagnever have18:57
flanagI only use my Jolla :)18:58
Nicd-ok, me neither18:58
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ln-without TOH on, a very gentle touch to the upper half of the SIM is enough to disconnect it.18:59
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flanagwould be also nice to see some communication between Jolla and Optima service as I want to know if they actually replace the sim bracket (with a one that's somehow different)19:00
flanagno bother sending it for service if they just try it on and say: "Well, whatever it seems to start, there are no problems. We will send it back and said we did something."19:01
flanagseems to be quite common for all these services to think that the users are idiots (and they just flash the software and say they fixed it..)19:02
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flanaghow many here have experienced the reboot loop that can be solved just by lifting the other half? if these people also have the sim bracket problems, we could be quite sure that the problems are related19:05
ln-does one require care's approval before sending the phone to optima for repair?19:05
ln-(in this particular case)19:05
flanaggood question ln-, I would like to know about that as well (as I have a DNA shop just here)19:06
flanagcan I just give it to them? or do I have to contact Care first?19:06
flanag(I bought it from DNA, didn't order from Jolla's webshop)19:07
Stskeepsah, might have to go to dna then i think?19:07
ln-if you bought it from DNA, i think you obviously can give it to them...19:07
Stskeepsi'm not sure19:07
flanagwell, it never hurts to ask first :p19:07
flanagI suspected that as well, as usually the shop is responsible to deal with the warranty19:08
ln-because at least in finland, it's the reseller's (and not the manufacturer's) responsibility to fix a consumer's malfunctioning device.19:08
flanagyeah19:09
flanagwell anyway, anything on this: "how many here have experienced the reboot loop that can be solved just by lifting the other half? if these people also have the sim bracket problems, we could be quite sure that the problems are related"?19:09
ln-even though many resellers try to outsource their responsibility to somewhere else19:09
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AL13Npp_: the kernel-devel is not available... (are you a jolla dev, could you help me out and build the cachefiles module?) so i can test it?19:42
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StskeepsAL13N: is cachefiles in 3.4.0?19:43
AL13Nit's in 2.6 too :-)19:44
AL13Nyes19:44
AL13Nzcat /proc/config.gz | grep -i cache19:44
AL13N# Caches19:44
AL13N# CONFIG_FSCACHE is not set19:44
AL13Ni think fscache needs to be enabled and then the cachefiles module below that19:45
AL13Nbut i'm unsure19:45
AL13Ni'll check kernel.org19:45
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AL13Nit's from 2009 in the kernel.org tree... so, i guess it's old enough19:47
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AL13NStskeeps: https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-stable.git/tree/fs/cachefiles/Kconfig?id=refs/tags/v3.4.8219:49
AL13Nconfig CACHEFILES tristate "Filesystem caching on files" depends on FSCACHE && BLOCK19:49
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AL13Nif anyone can build me the module, i get started in the cachefilesd program19:50
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AL13Nwell cachefilesd was pretty easy...19:56
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AL13NSage-: pp_: special: lbt: tbr: Aard: anyone wanna build me the cachefiles module? i got the cachefilesd program built locally, so i can test if this improves NFS stability/performance . i promise that if it works that i'll contribute this to mer-tools19:58
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Sage-AL13N: cachefiles kernel module?20:07
AL13Nyes20:08
AL13N(it's meant for NFS and CIFS, so )20:08
AL13Nif i can have build from you guys, i could test it and see if it runs ok-ish20:09
AL13Nif it does, i can contribute cachefilesd for mer-tools)20:09
AL13NSage-: ^^20:09
AL13Nmaybe i could git clone with that exact tree, and rsync to device and try to build it like that20:13
AL13Nnot sure if it would work, iinm insmod does check quite a few parameters before it allows you to insert it20:13
AL13Nkernel isn't my biggest forte in linux development20:14
mornfallso, in settings, when you add an app icon to favorites and then sync mail, the settings cover goes blank20:14
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flanagI have also seen the blank cover when downloading and then doing some actions on the file from file transfers (if I remember correctly)20:16
mornfallhmm, if I have 5 settings favorites and 3 app favorites it doesn't happen20:16
mornfallwhen it's 4+1 (or +more) it does20:17
Stskeepsmornfall: hrrm; when next update comes and it still exists; file a bug please20:17
mornfallStskeeps: file a bug where? :-)20:17
flanagtogether20:17
mornfallhm, it's kinda slippery20:19
flanagslippery?20:19
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mornfallyeah, I removed and added favorites and it doesn't happen now with 4+420:19
flanagyeah, well I can confirm the cover disappearing in the download situation20:20
mornfalland it starts happening after I restart settings20:20
flanagquite weird20:20
mornfallso the reproducer might be add 4 apps settings to favorites, restart settings, sync email20:20
mornfallflanag: does it stay gone? the settings cover doubles as transfer notification20:21
mornfallit shows a circle and 2 actions20:21
flanagnah it's not connected to that20:21
flanagit happens after I have done some action on the file (after the download)20:21
flanagI think at least20:21
flanagI can't remember it exactly now20:21
mornfallhmm, syncing again makes the cover come back too :D20:22
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RaimAL13N: arg, answered in the wrong channel. I can give it a try to build this module, is it just CONFIG_FSCACHE=m? what other options do you need?20:25
Sage-AL13N: ^ :)20:26
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AL13NRaim: config CACHEFILES tristate "Filesystem caching on files" depends on FSCACHE && BLOCK20:28
AL13NCACHEFILES is the one20:28
AL13Nit depends on fs-cache20:28
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AL13Ni just want a binary module for 1.0.3.820:29
AL13Nso i can test it out and see how it goes20:29
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AL13NRaim: https://github.com/KonstaT/sailfishos_kernel_jolla_msm8930/tree/8257cdaa4ad1d0d7643ad0146b8cf5c67b858720/fs/cachefiles20:29
RaimAL13N: yep, I think you will need both fscache.ko and cachefiles.ko20:30
AL13Nwith the unreliable wifi, i'm trying to see if this can help me out, since it'll likely fetch the file completely20:30
AL13Nyes20:30
Raimlet me do a quick test if I can load them20:31
RaimAL13N: here, https://raim.codingfarm.de/jolla/cachefiles/20:34
RaimAL13N: let me know if you also need any CONFIG_FSCACHE_DEBUG= or something20:34
AL13Nprobably not, thanks alot20:39
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Raimalready had the tree ready from experiments with the exfat module, so no big deal20:43
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AL13NRaim: thanks!20:44
AL13NRaim: it seems i was at least able to load it20:44
AL13Nnow to start the cachefilesd stuff and see how things go20:45
Raimyeah, that's the only thing I checked so no symbols are missing20:45
sharpneliI was at igda today and my Jolla failed a basic usability test. Taking a picture while at pub.20:45
flanagwhy?20:45
Stskeepssharpneli: what happened?20:45
sharpneliCamera app crashed while I tried to set flash on20:45
Stskeepscrashed or device died, too?20:45
sharpneliJust crashed20:45
Stskeepshmmm20:46
Stskeepsthat's a new one20:46
sharpneliSo the comments around the table were "that's Jolla" :(20:46
flanagStskeeps: btw, can you get a word to a Jolla employee that can read Finnish that they should check this thread here: http://foorumi.jollasuomi.fi/index.php/topic,240.0.html20:46
flanagit's got a lot of information on the shutting down problem20:47
Stskeepsflanag: i think people are following those things20:47
Stskeeps(i'm not finnish)20:47
flanagI know, that's why I specified it in my post :)20:47
flanag(that you are not Finnish)20:48
Stskeepssharpneli: hope next update solves a large portition of those kind of issues..20:48
flanagsome people on that thread got their sim card holder replaced (and also their battery but I am not sure if that really affected it) and it seemed to solve the shutdown problem (it also solved the sim card disconnection problem)20:49
Turskiwell, if those are being replaced, i'm pretty much sure that Jolla is already aware about that...20:50
flanagit doesn't seem that they are20:50
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flanagor their communication is really lacking20:50
flanagthere are tons of people on the thread with these problems20:50
Turskifor me it just looks like they don't want to admit or tell about problems...20:51
Stskeepsit's not so simple as that..20:51
Turskidon't want / can't / aren't allowed or something20:51
flanagwell, you are probably in a big hurry now, so I am not blaming you20:51
Stskeepsas an example, telling about a problem usually means that people then want it fixed; but that requires knowing what the problem is in the first place and what the fix is20:51
Stskeepsand waiting 3 months for a care case isn't exactly going to help people's moods20:52
Stskeepsnot talking specifically about this problem, fwiw20:52
flanagI'm pretty sure already that it is the sim card holder (of course that's only my opinion but at least Jolla should inspect the problem)20:52
Stskeepsadmitting problems is easy but the follow up is 'so what are you going to do about it', which is a very fun issue to deal with when your device is made by >100 suppliers20:52
Stskeepsat least we can be quite open on the sw issues20:53
flanagyeah, I just can't send my device in for repair and then get it back with a notice "software upgraded"20:53
flanagit's just so annoying when the service thinks people are idiots20:54
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Stskeepshttps://xkcd.com/806/20:54
Stskeeps:P20:54
flanag:)20:55
flanagmy point just is that if this problem was more "official" maybe they would just straight away replace the sim card holder as it's known that it probably solves it20:56
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Stskeepsif anybody is having problems with their jolla and they think it's a hardware issue, contact your point of purchase, be it jolla care or dna, i think20:56
Stskeepsin any mass production there's a risk of bad devices; because you can't keep up production and do 100% QA (this is exaggrated)20:57
flanagyeah but the link that you posted explains the problem with that :)20:57
flanag(just going to a store and saying "fix this")20:57
Stskeepsnod20:57
ali1234also people are hypochondriacs and will assume that every problem they have is caused by the problem you just announced20:58
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Stskeepsi only speak on behalf of myself; fwiw20:58
ali1234the iphone "holding it wrong" thing was a good example of that20:59
Stskeepsbut only way to really start a process is to explain your symptoms and why you think they're not sw issues20:59
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slateflanag: its also annoying when people think service are idiots21:00
flanagslate: well..21:00
flanagthe service people aren't idiots, I'm not saying that21:00
slatesw-updates can fix pretty weird problems. Some that people think cant be sw-related21:01
flanagslate: SW can't fix a sim card disconnection (that can be verified by gently touching the sim card holder)21:01
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flanagsomeone already explained this problem on TMO21:01
flanagit's caused by the little golden triangle that (if I remember correctly) detects if the sim card is in place21:02
pp_some linksys routers used to be overclocked, some part only worked reliably when it was slightly hot :-)21:02
flanagheh21:03
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flanagif anyone wants to check: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=92243&page=421:05
flanagthere's the explanation21:05
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slateI'm familiar with that, I'm not saying all can be fixed by sw ;)21:06
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slatemaybe add 10ms timeout before disconnect if the switch cuts out for a short while etc. aka. purkkaviritys.21:07
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ali1234i had a phone once that i was convinced it had some problem with the simcard holder21:07
ali1234it would just randomly stop seeing the sim21:08
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ali1234i had all bits of paper and stuff jammed in to make it "work"21:08
ali1234then one day i got a new sim and it worked fine after that21:08
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ali1234http://relativity.fi/jolla_sim/sim_problem.JPG <- those are the other half pogopins in the right side, yes?21:11
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slateI'd replace the sim, at least tried that21:12
ali1234i didn't realise the pins were in the main body, i thought they'd have to be built on to the other half21:13
ali1234(i only skimmed the docs and don't have a jolla yet)21:13
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eyea_ukDoes any know any specs on Jolla 2 device21:26
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keithzgeyea_uk: I suspect even Jolla doesn't, other than maybe a wishlist and some parts-sourcing investigations ;)21:27
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eyeaJolla )olla job21:28
eyeajoh21:28
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flanagDidn't get that..21:28
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eyeaJolla21:28
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flanagheh, purkkaviritys is a nice word21:28
flanagwell, I'll wait for the next update anyway but I am not too hopeful that it fixes it21:28
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flanagyeah but it's not that in my case, as I've got a new sim (and many many many many other people are having this same issue)21:28
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AL13NRaim: Sage-: bad luck :-( ... after mounting nfs points with fsc option, it still says fsc=no in /proc/fs/nfsfs/volumes22:08
AL13Neven though /proc/mounts shows fsc fine22:08
AL13Ngiving up for now, to be continued22:09
* zbenjamin wonders when the new update will be here22:10
zbenjaminshouldn't it be already ? ;)22:10
Nicd-no22:11
AL13Nis there a specific reason you want a new update?22:11
AL13Nwe'll get the update when they release it22:11
RaimAL13N: hm, there is also a CONFIG_NFS_FSCACHE22:12
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AL13NRaim: don't tell me it's disabled :-(22:12
AL13Nah wait22:12
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AL13Nit's not the same thing22:12
AL13Nah no, i got it wrong22:13
AL13NRaim: does it depend on FSCACHE?22:13
AL13NRaim: it's weird, cause the /proc/fs/nfsfs/volumes does mention FSC22:13
AL13Ni would expect it not to mention it if it wasn't enabled22:14
AL13Nbut then, i can be wrong22:14
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RaimAL13N: haven't checked, only saw it when I changed the config22:14
AL13NRaim: ah22:14
AL13NRaim: sadly, that'll probably not be easy to rebuild22:15
Raimso, yes, it must depend on FSCACHE because I did not see it before22:15
AL13N(i got confused with RPC caching earlier)22:15
FryeHmm, any Idea where the local calendar is stored? And can it be manually backed up?22:17
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RaimAL13N: try this module, https://raim.codingfarm.de/jolla/cachefiles/nfs.ko with CONFIG_NFS_FSCACHE=y22:18
AL13Nhmm22:18
RaimAL13N: but you need to 'modprobe nfs; rmmod nfs; insmod ./nfs.ko' to load dependencies first22:21
AL13NRaim: now, FSC is yes22:21
Raimalright :-)22:21
AL13Ni just rmmod nfs and insmod nfs the new module22:21
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Raimyes, should be enough if you had it loaded before22:23
AL13Nok, it's doing some caching now at least22:24
AL13Ni wonder if it works when network is down22:24
AL13Nhmm, it did work for a while, but now it's hanging22:29
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AL13Nwe'll test it out some more and see how good it is22:33
dwangoACStskeeps: Any new timeframe on a Nexus 4 beta build?  I have not yet obtained a replacement phone for my wife, but I'm working on that so I can use her Nexus 4 as a test device for you.22:33
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dwangoACI just want to make sure I have the phone swap done in time for your schedule.22:34
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