#jollamobile log for Wednesday, 2014-04-16

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JvD_skvark: And that generic class is used in your ChameleonHalf?03:54
JvD_I'll have look at that. Currently I am using forked kimmoli's source03:55
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Mirvchriadam: Paarlampi has fixed essentially all my battery drain problems so far, thanks. probably some corner cases are still there, but definitely back to great.03:57
Pnuuwhat I've heard, the hostspot battery drain is still there03:58
Mirv"probably" because I have seen some variation (7%-20%) in the night consumption rates, but it's anyhow on a good level. 3G, chats and syncs enabled.03:58
MirvPnuu: ok, that'd fall into the corner cases. which of course for some may be very important.03:59
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Mirvif Ambience would support chat status, connectivity and sync settings, I'd be also happy to go offline for the night :)03:59
Pnuuyeah, from normal 2 % per night to ~20 % per night03:59
Mirvok, maybe I then hit that once, I do use BT & WLAN tethering every week04:00
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chriadamMirv: there's still one bug in Paarlampi (fixed in the next update) where syncing FB images or avatars can sometimes hang.04:39
chriadamcan see a few commits in https://github.com/nemomobile/libsocialcache/commits/master which deal with timing out stuck requests and handling duplicate requests04:40
chriadambut yeah, the most common issues with sync which prevented the device from entering suspend, were fixed in P04:40
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skvarkJvD_: yes, it's there05:20
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JvD_great05:24
skvarkcould be probably improved but works for me05:30
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Quuhmm05:46
Quucant enable any warehouse repo because it whines something about jolla store repo not found05:47
Quutransaction /944_aceacece05:47
Quuok.05:47
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BasilSemuonovQuu: it says smthing like "file not found on medium"? or "authentication failed"?05:54
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Quuyeah, /repodata/repomd.xml not found05:55
Quuxt9 it seems05:55
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tehdelyi met my first jolla user today05:56
tehdely(other than myself, that is)05:56
tehdelysouth african dude, traveling in SF05:56
tehdelyit was neat :)05:56
Quucool05:57
arhehe05:57
ari know 3 other people who have Jolla phones05:57
tehdelyit is a very distinctive design.  mine is especially distinctive, as i dropped the phone 3' onto some pavement and the screen is all smashed up05:58
tehdelybut i am enjoying using it too much to ship it to finland to get fixed05:58
tehdelyit has been broken for 1mo+05:58
tehdelyanyhow i spotted it instantly.05:58
Acceyep, it05:58
Acces easy to spot a Jolla05:58
tehdelyone does not see such phones here.  just iPhone iPhone galaxy iPhone galaxy iPhone galaxy05:58
Accewhich is good05:58
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tehdelywe commiserated briefly on the lack of 3G service, i asked him if he had received the latest update (he had), we talked about our N9s, and then parted ways.  it was magic05:59
tehdelyhehehe05:59
Quu*magic*05:59
ar3G doesn't work on Jolla in usa?06:00
tehdelynope06:00
tehdely900/2100 only06:00
Accehot news, Jolla doesn't run on electricity, it's pure magic ;)06:00
tehdelyso you are stock on GSM here06:00
tehdelywhich is abysmal.  AT&T + T-Mo have been slowly decommissioning their GSM network for ages06:00
tehdelyi drop calls constantly and get no reception in many places06:00
arhm. SF? a friend of mine's in SF now06:01
tehdelydata service is fine.  I just tether over WiFi to an LTE MiFi06:01
aroh, but he's not south african06:01
tehdelybut it would be nice to have reliable calls.  alas06:01
tehdelysomeone obvs. needs to write a good VoIP stack for sailfish06:01
Accethat must suck.. but can't be helped since US is not officially targeted yet :/ which is understandable considering how Nokia has fared there06:01
tehdelyAcce: well, it would probably cost $5 extra per handset to ship a quad or pentaband UMTS radio06:02
tehdelybut it might have created some sort of obligation to get certified by the FCC or something06:02
tehdelywhich would be an unnecessary hassle when you are launching as light as Jolla did06:02
tehdelyi mean, hell, it is a crowdfunded phone that actually shipped.  when is the last time anyone saw that06:02
tehdelyso I have come to terms wit hit.06:02
tehdelyi will disagree with you on one point though: the lesson to learn from Nokia's failures in America is to NOT ignore the US06:03
tehdelyNokia ignored the US at their peril.06:03
tehdelytwo American-made operating systems ate their lunch and destroyed their market.06:03
Acceyeah, I'm sure they have their reasons, be it the HW designer company they used or "we forgot"06:03
tehdelyi hope it was one of those06:04
Accewell, yes, but Nokia still thrived in Europe and Asia06:04
Acceuntil, well, now06:04
tehdelywell, until Android came and ate their lunch there, too06:04
tehdelyNokia was a very arrogant company.  i think many can agree on that :)06:04
tehdelyarrogant with wonderful technology and many brilliant people06:04
tehdelyand the best industrial design in the industry06:04
tehdelyso, many reasons to be arrogant.  but foolish nonetheless06:04
Accemhm, but I don't think Nokia ignored US, it's just a market hard to get into when competing with two US companies06:04
tehdelyand my experience as an American customer of Nokia was one of unbridled contempt06:05
tehdelyI was a Symbian user for years.  I suffered06:05
tehdelybut I was loyal06:05
tehdelyand then I got an N9 and was super happy, but it was always understood that the phone was doomed, doomed, doomed06:05
Accemaybe they should've pressed on their US market share earlier though.. they let others get the space there06:05
tehdelyi have actually had to deal with NOK's customer support for americans.  it is downright disdainful.06:05
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tehdelyi'm not sure if it's any better in Europe06:06
tehdelybut at least you have Care Points there06:06
tehdelyhere you must ship everything to Texas.  and all calls are handled by a call center in the Phillipines, and the quality was... lacking, to say the least06:06
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Accewell, Nokia's downfall started in early this millenia, when the top-ups stopped accepting innovations to the products06:07
tehdelythat and the internal warfare between the symbian + maemo teams06:07
tehdelyinability to settle on a single vision.  battling business units.  super top-heavy with mgmt06:07
Accewhich was solved by bringing yet another player into the soup.. ugh06:07
tehdelydo you mean the whole Intel disaster?06:08
Accethat too, and trashing both symbian and maemo06:08
Acceit was acceptable, but they should've been smoother about it06:08
Accenot just plain "no more this and that"06:08
tehdelycutting off the app store the way they did was pretty rude.06:09
Accewell.. we have to look ahead now06:09
tehdelyanyhow, funny thing is Windows Phone is getting to be quite nice.  but i have apx. 0.0% interest in it.  my loyalty to Nokia lived w/ Symbian + Maemo, and has transfered to Jolla06:09
Accein my eyes the mobile market has been pretty stagnant for the past few years06:09
tehdelythey are just a brand now.06:09
Accelet's see if Jolla and others can make some real waves06:10
tehdelyi think jolla is very well placed to do so06:10
tehdelythey made a very smart decision, which was to start small and not try to become a big player in any marke06:10
tehdelyt06:10
tehdelyit is a boutiquey phone for those that want it, most of whom are very loyal and committed to it06:10
tehdelyway better than trying to be the next iOS/Android/etc.etc.06:11
Acceyeah, and they're scratching the itches of those who create and develop new stuff06:11
tehdelylook how much it has improved in just a few months.  they can actually ship code06:11
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Acceyeah, the speed is fast indeed06:11
Accebut the quality is still kept good06:12
tehdelyin agile circles that would be called "velocity"06:12
tehdelyi would like to see a Jolla burndown chart06:12
tehdelyhopefully a voicemail indicator is somewhere in the next sprint :>06:12
Acceheh :) but now, morning coffee time!06:12
tehdelyevening cereal time here06:13
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ed-beocold beer time here all day, everyday06:14
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AL13Nmorning go-to-work time06:22
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Stskeepstehdely: you mean a burnout chart06:55
Stskeeps;)06:55
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tbrStskeeps: ugh, that puts it terribly well07:01
Stskeepsgood morning tbr07:01
tbrmoaning07:02
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Kiranosjust want to say, I love jollas battery life, I can go 3 nights without charging, was many years ago I could do that07:12
Kiranosold ericsson phones with two weeks battery life07:12
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army work phone (xperia j) manages about two weeks on battery, but it's mostly idle and no accounts to sync configured07:13
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TemeVeven my N9 lasts a week when I don't use it07:22
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covoxKiranos: I know right? back when there was that NFC bug draining the battery my reaction was "fair enough, most phones only get a day or so"07:38
covoxwhen that got patched out of tohd I was amazed07:39
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Pnuuwish we had amoled..07:41
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ppheh, interesting, I went to sleep at 3% battery but was too tired to plug the phone in08:00
ppit was still on at 3% :D08:00
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TofeIs there something obvious preventing a wayland app to be started on the device ?08:03
TofeI was reading this https://together.jolla.com/question/39620/request-xwayland/ and was wondering why not "just" compile XWayland and start it08:05
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Kiranosnot sure I understand but probably want native support to make app work out of the box without external dependencies?08:16
HtheBguys, since the last 2 updates, android apps can't read the contacts anymore08:16
HtheBdoes anyone has some workaround for this?08:16
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Quudont use android apps :p08:18
HtheBthats not a solution :)08:19
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HtheBtoo bad some apps doesnt exist as native sailfish os app08:19
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Quuiirc you need to add permissions to some file08:23
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SfietKonstantinBTW, interesting stuff, if not posted already http://www.projectara.com/mdk/08:36
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Quuthey released something already?08:37
SfietKonstantindocs08:37
Quubah :)08:37
SfietKonstantininteresting already08:38
SfietKonstantinthey use I2C I2S etc.08:38
SfietKonstantinand of course, Android08:38
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Quuneat08:40
SfietKonstantinI wonder how this threatens / helps Jolla08:40
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tbrjust run sailfish on it :)08:41
SfietKonstantintbr: I mean, OH concept08:41
SfietKonstantinof course, running Sailfish on it is a possibility :)08:41
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SfietKonstantinanyway, just run through the whole doc, it's pretty neat08:48
SfietKonstantinJolla HW people should read it too (if there are some of them here)08:48
HtheBQuu: any idea which file?08:49
Quunope08:50
Quuoh wait08:50
Quuit was for mitakuuluu, not android apps08:50
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TemeVIt is some licensing thing, that contatcs synced from cloud are not available to android08:56
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TemeVI can see only those stored to the device on android apps08:56
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Yanielcybette: the meeting minutes link on twitter?08:58
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HtheBTemeV: Its not syncing?09:00
HtheBI just added a contact to my phone....09:00
TemeVHtheB, what do you mean?09:01
HtheBon earlier versions of Sailfish, after adding a contact, when you rebooted the phone, the android apps could see the added contact09:02
HtheBbut now, it doesnt09:02
HtheBI added the contact manually on my phone09:02
HtheBI didnt sync anything from cloud...09:02
TemeVok. Then there is some bug09:02
TemeVFor me it works ok09:03
HtheBViber?09:03
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TemeVI've tried only with whatsapp09:03
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HtheBTemeV: did you add a new contact after the newest sailfish update?09:04
SceltSfietKonstantin: I remember that block phone idea from few years back. Awesome that Google is actually doing it now. Huge possibilities within it09:04
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SfietKonstantinyep09:05
SfietKonstantinthat's the phoneblocks thing yep09:05
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TemeVHtheB, not sure, but I'll try now09:06
TemeVHtheB, Ok, I added a new entry to phone book, and started whatsapp, and I can see the contact there09:10
TemeVNo need to reboot or anything09:11
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cybetteYaniel: I retweeted tbr's tweet, will make a proper tweet later. lunch/bank right now.09:16
Yanielgreat09:18
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HtheB:( weird09:26
HtheBdoesnt work with Viber then? :(09:28
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Kiranos[11:17:22] <cybette> Yaniel: I retweeted tbr's tweet, will make a proper tweet later. lunch/bank right now.10:00
Kiranosand which tweet is this?10:00
Yanielone with a link to the mailing list archive10:02
Kiranosdont know his account10:02
Yanielspecifically the mail with the links to meeting logs10:02
Yanielyou can see it on the jollahq feed10:02
Yanielwhich kinda is the point of retweeting I guess :P10:03
Kiranosthanks10:03
Kiranoshttps://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2014-April/003925.html10:03
Kiranosif anyone else is interested10:03
Yanielyep10:03
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Khertanis there any problem for updating sdk ?12:16
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Khertanrepo isn t found on updater12:16
faenilKhertan, they took links down afaik12:17
faenilissue found in KDE setups12:17
Khertanoh12:18
Khertanthis explain that12:18
Khertanso i ll wait :)12:18
faenil(they wrote a post on ML)12:18
Khertanthx12:19
Khertanfaenil (i didn't read ml ... or really few time)12:19
faenilnp12:19
faenilI suggest subscribing, so you get emails :)12:19
Khertanfaenil, i got emails (c AOLVoice)12:20
faenilok12:20
Khertanfaenil, i m registered, just no time to read :)12:20
faenil:)12:21
Khertanoh the windows update failed too12:21
Khertangroooh12:21
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faenilahaha12:21
Khertan--register --basefolder C:\\SailfishOS/emulator12:21
Khertanmixed env separator12:21
Khertan:)12:21
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faenil:)12:22
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HtheBSfietKonstantin: u there? ;p13:04
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faenildoes anyone know if bindings for a property "foo" are disabled when a State transition for foo is ongoing?14:53
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Acceኮ15:44
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Pnuufaenil: try #sailfishos15:45
faenilPnuu, already got an answer ;)15:46
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faenil(by myself :P )15:46
Pnuu:-)15:46
coderusfaenil: so?15:46
faenilcoderus, it seems they're disabled, yes15:46
coderusokay :)15:46
faenilalso got a confirmation from https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-12767?focusedCommentId=123329&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-12332915:46
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ottulodid someone try to get the hijacked ringtone from jolla.com?16:54
ottuloon SailfishOS browser it only opens it in a new tab and starts playing it :/16:54
Quuhttp://jolla.com/media/documents/jolla_ringtone_remix.mp316:54
ottulowon't really help if I wanted to dl it on my phone directly16:55
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Stskeepscurl -O in terminal?16:56
Teguyea but you can't paste to terminal \:D/16:56
ottuloexactly16:56
ottulowhich is why I was typing it in there16:57
Tegunor copy from it. nor copy from browser except the url bar16:57
Teguor links16:57
ottuloofc I could have used TinyEdit to save it to a txt, open that in nano, copy, paste16:57
faenilxD16:57
Tegubut yea. hmm. it's not that long url that it couldn't be written manually :P16:57
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Scelthttp://dy.fi/ift16:58
Sceltthere you go ;)16:58
ottulotoo late, but thanks16:58
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ottuloalso, I'm not irc-ing on my jolla so I'd still have to manually type that address :P16:59
Sceltottulo: np mate16:59
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coderusjust compile last commits of fingerterm and get terminal copy/paste working17:18
coderus(i really have no idea why it wasn included in sailfish update)17:19
faenilyeah, I thought it would have, honestly17:19
coderusthp: ^17:20
Tofefaenil: interesting link about the transitions17:22
faenilTofe, :)17:22
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Tofefaenil: though I find it a bit strange that they allow so easily artefact signals to happen17:23
faenilTofe, so do I :/ but if you read another related thread it seems they didn't have much choice, at least at that time17:24
Tofeyes, I guess so.17:24
faenilI'm more disappointed that it's still the same after the move to Qt5, which was the opportunity for API/ABI break17:25
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Tofeoh, it was Qt 4 and not changed with Qt 5 ? I missed that. Yes, I'm disappointed too :)17:27
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SpeedEvilhttp://www.digitoday.fi/vimpaimet/2014/04/16/nokias-dirty-secret-the-untold-story-of-a-production-ready-tablet-from-2001/20145483/66 - for the few people that haven't seen it20:44
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M4rtinKyeah, make a market study _after_ developing the whole thing20:49
M4rtinKwhy not, what could possibly go wrong! :)20:49
Accebest market study: put it in the shop, if people buy it ok, if not, scrap20:49
SpeedEvilWell - it's not quite that simple.20:50
SpeedEvilIf you make actual production volumes - and it tanks.20:50
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SpeedEvilYou end up scrappin 48K, not 1K20:50
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SpeedEvilI would love to see more info.20:51
SpeedEvilI mean - it's only 2001.20:51
SpeedEvilAnd all the devs can't be dead.20:52
SpeedEvilI wonder what the state of the OS was.20:52
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ottulonice pitch there in the middle20:52
ottuloactually, at the end20:53
ottulo"My next phone will be a Jolla."20:53
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SpeedEvil:)20:53
Accewell yes, it's not best cost-wise, but it's best as in seeing whether people want it or not20:53
Acce(assuming they know it exists)20:53
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SpeedEvilWhich means you need to market it20:55
SpeedEvilAlso - there is reputational risk by putting something out that utterly tanks.20:56
the_mgtbut that does not stop microsoft from selling crappy phone os'ses, does it?20:56
the_mgtin general they spent lots of money for market research and the only thing they could land is their gaming console. phones, media players, tablets, they all tank20:58
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SpeedEvilMicrosoft is shit-scared of android.21:09
SpeedEvilAnd apple.21:09
SpeedEvilAnd are trying desperately to compete in mobile space.21:09
SpeedEvilWilling to plow huge amounts of money into it.21:10
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SpeedEvilAnd sacrifice usability of the desktop for a slice of the mobile pie.21:10
SpeedEvilNokia wasn't really anywhere close to that position in 200121:11
SpeedEvilAlso at that time - the stock price was hugely volatile.21:12
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SpeedEvilIt had crashed from 50/share in 2000 to 20/share in 2001.21:13
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SpeedEvilReally not the time you want to be sending the market 'we don't know what we're doing' signals.21:13
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the_mgtbut Nokia had this niche market Communicator thing, too. I always wanted one, I imagine I would have wanted such a tablet, too. (Although it looks more ugly than the Communicator)21:16
Jopeniche?21:18
Jopeit was immensely popular21:18
Jopeor they, more like21:19
Tememy dad had all but the 1st gen communicator21:20
Temeawesome devices21:20
Temenot really useful, but awesome :)21:20
the_mgtin 2000/2001, having a mobile phone was still something "only a dealer or broker needed", iirc21:20
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Temei mean who would use office software on a display with an aspect ratio of 10:3 or smth :D21:21
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