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Pnuuhttp://xkcd.com/1367/05:35
Stskeepswell.05:37
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mikmaso. my jolla keeps on shutdowning. but i saw a message "device hot. shut down softwares"07:03
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Stskeepshmmm /var/log/systemboot.lgo ?07:06
Stskeepslog07:06
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Mnsu_my jolla has become almost unbearable to use with its constant rebooting/shutting down over the last couple of days :(07:10
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TemeVMnsu_: have you tried the paper trick?07:12
Quu14d uptime after paper-inputting \o/07:12
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Quulongest i have seen so far07:12
Mnsu_not yet, I was supposed to put a folded piece of paper under the battery right?07:12
Quunot under07:12
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TemeVit would be "under the battery" when the phone is vertical :)07:14
TemeVbut it should be put to the opposite side of the contacts07:14
TemeVto make the contact between phone and battery better07:15
Jopebetween the battery and the bottom edge of the battery compartment, next to the finger cutout07:15
Jopebasically opposite to the battery contacts07:15
juicememy jolla also had one spontaneous rebot last week, on friday afternoon. Pretty annoying, as that again blew my uptime of just 2 weeks.... I am starting to think it is customary for Jolla to reboot every 14 days or so 8(07:16
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Mnsu_let's see if the paper thing helps some07:23
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FireFlyAww08:36
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FireFly% ssh jolla uptime08:36
FireFly 10:36:18 up 6 days,08:36
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Aardjuiceme: our internal uptime record is 15 days. you're not going to break that one! :p08:41
Quulol08:42
juicemeAard, that is so cruel!08:43
Raimuhm, I rebooted yesterday after about 14 days uptime...08:43
juicemeand I did better than that, was on some previoius release....08:43
SK_workpff, a Jolla without sim-card and fully charged can last much more than 15 days08:43
RaimI could not get wifi to work anymore, I even tried reloading the kernel module. reboot was the easiest and fastet solution...08:44
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Sceltthat's irritating08:45
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SceltI have an uptime of 10 days and I'm having problems with wifi08:46
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Sceltdunno if wifi hw is crappy or software but all the other machines (pc, samsung tablet, nexus 5) around it are doing fine with wifi08:47
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FireFlyAard: what, really? :p08:51
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FireFlyI had 29 days between getting the phone in December and the first update in January, IIRC08:51
FireFlybetween two of the early updates, anyway..08:52
FireFlythen during spring I started getting them pesky spontaneous reboots :p08:52
Nicd-my record is 13 days08:52
AardFireFly: I don't really have any idea. I now and then forget one of my phones for a week or so when I don't need all of them, but generally uptime on our phones is probably pretty low due to fast development speed08:53
FireFlyMakes sense08:54
FireFly"one of my phones"08:54
Nicd-all your phone are belong to Aard08:54
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AardFireFly: I'm doing releases, so I have to be able to verify stuff on different configurations (or break it) -> I have 5 jollas here, plus some other phones08:56
FireFlyAh08:56
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SK_work+ some other phones ...08:58
SK_workhaha08:58
SK_work:P08:58
ottulonenhm.. I also had connection issues and various other problems last week after 10+ days of uptime08:59
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ottulonenreboot fixed them for now08:59
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* Aard throws a leo at SK_work 09:00
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SK_workAard: oooh jesus09:01
SK_workthe Leo09:01
Aardexactly :)09:01
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mikmastskeeps: cant copypaste but it says that device (hw_battery) overheated (79C)09:27
Stskeepshmmm09:27
Stskeepsdid it feel hot09:27
StskeepsSage-_: ^09:28
mikmastskeeps: negative. just pulled it out from pocket and started using it09:29
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bjornAard: Btw, do you also notice that there is quite a big delay for unlocking?10:55
bjornAard: When I unlock with the button, usually my first swipe fails because the screen wasn't enabled yet.10:55
bjornIn contrast locking feels almost instant.10:56
bjornWell, locking simply feels instant.10:56
Aardbjorn: I didn't notice it before. if I try with two fingers I can see it, though10:56
AardI usually unlock by double tappyng10:57
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bjornI'm unlocking with thumb and then trying to scroll with the same thumb.10:57
bjornI have to remember to wait, otherwise it doens't work.10:57
Temeyeah, can't reproduce with one hand :D10:57
bjornYeah, I usually prefer double-tapping as well, but even that could be more responsive I guess.10:57
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Temei'm getting the same delay (first swipe fail) from both button and double-tap10:59
bjornYeah, the delay is the same. I guess I had just grown used to waiting after the double-tap, and only really noticed it again when I used the button.11:00
Temebut i can't be sure if i start to swipe before the screen show anything yet11:00
Temeif i start a swipe before screen turns on, it's dismissed11:00
Temei mean start swiping around the screen, press button -> nothing happens until you replace finger11:00
Temewhen i'm sure that it's on an land finger, gesture is registered... but there's a 400ms delay between screen actually turning on and brain getting the signal ;)11:02
Tememaybe your brain is faster - but from this small experiment i'm pretty sure you start swiping before the screen is actually on and that's why the swipe fails11:02
bjornYeah, it's hard to hit it at the same moment, but it doesn't really matter. Point is it's something that could use optimization. :)11:03
Temei have no idea if that "swipe started when screen is on is not registered unless finger is released" is a bug or feature :)11:03
Temewhen screen is off*11:04
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bjornTeme: Well, I don't expect to be able to interact with things I can't see, so I can't see it being a bug.11:07
Yanielany news on tracker?11:07
Yanieland sd cards11:07
Temebjorn: but it could be functioning so that when the screen turns on, it starts registering the input even if you have landed a finger before screen was turned on..11:09
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Sage-_mikma: that is sw thing that is fixed in next update. (cc: Stskeeps)11:11
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bjornTeme: Hmm, true. That could be helpful in mitigating the effect of the delay, especially when it's hard to reduce this time. Still, suppose there would be some button, would you expect your release to trigger a click when you pressed down while your screen was still black?11:17
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Temeif i were designing such a feature, the input would start be registered from the moment the screen has been on11:19
Temei mean now if you had your finger down when you pressed the button, no matter where you swipe or what you do it does absolutely nada unless you release the finger11:20
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Temeto answer your question - no i would not expect it to be registered if screen was black11:20
Temei dunno if these types of timings require compensation for the time it takes for brain to register it... it's around 400-500 ms at the minimum11:21
Temebut i'm hoping someone knows ;)11:21
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Yanielguise, I dont like this11:50
Yanielsudden shutdown, reboot, enable sim card -> sudden shutdown11:50
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the_mgtYaniel: experiencing the same12:03
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the_mgtbatery capacity showing as 4% before reboot? than suddently it is at 50+ after reboot?12:03
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Mnsu_the_mgt: one day I had it show 4% for the whole day, before I rebooted :)12:05
Mnsu_it is a bit sad that jolla is still full of bugs like these, if these are even completely software issues12:07
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PaulePanterHi. I got my Jolla today. \o/12:23
Jopeyay12:24
Nicd-woooo12:24
PaulePanterSince two hours It is still saying it is downloading the update. I have 1.0.2.5 and the upgrade is for 1.0.5.19.12:24
PaulePanterIs that normal. There is unfortunately no download progress bar.12:24
PaulePanter?12:24
Nicd-the progress bar is the image on the top12:25
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PaulePanterIn the middle there is that spinning circle.12:25
Nicd-it will light up from left to right12:25
Temequite cool, but not very intuitive at first :)12:25
PaulePanterThen it has not even started for som reason.12:25
PaulePanter*some12:25
Nicd-reboot and try again12:26
Temeif you're downloading a 300MB uodate over 3G... i was fazed by it the first time around12:26
PaulePanterOk.12:26
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Nicd-Teme: 2 hours is a long time though12:26
Temeagreed12:26
PaulePanterTeme: It is DSL and should be reasonably fast. But from what the other said, there is no progress bar yet, so some other problem.12:27
PaulePanterI’ll reboot.12:27
PaulePanter(Though the instructions of course say not to. ;-))12:27
Nicd-does it matter during download phase?12:28
Temeinstructions are for the scrubs.. power users do what they will >:D12:28
Nicd-I would think not...12:28
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the_mgtMnsu_: just started two weeks ago, the last hotfix update they released seems to be about the time when it started happening12:40
the_mgtworked like a charm before. right now i experience incoming phone calls I can not answer, because the touchscreen wont react. or because they are not even displayed, but the phine rings12:40
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PaulePanterFor whatever reason it does *not* want to download the update.12:44
PaulePanterInternet works fine. I am able to open Web sites and so on.12:45
PaulePanterHow can I check where the 1.0.5.19 update file is located?12:46
PaulePanterNo it works. After the fifth try.12:46
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PaulePanterSo either the Jolla does not like the WLAN I am in or the Jolla infrastructure is currently unreliable.12:48
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Yanielthe_mgt: no, about 70% before and 50% after13:15
Yanielupdating via wlan was a bit flaky at some point IIRC13:16
YanielI downloaded the first update over 3G too13:16
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PaulePanterInstalling the email app, configuring and saving the email account and then no account is shown in the list. :(13:18
PaulePanterThe first impression with the Nokia N9 was a lot better unfortunately.13:19
PaulePanterOf course the N9t was more expensive, but I’d happily pay 200 € more instead of wasting time.13:20
VDVsxPaulePanter, is the account shown in the accounts list ?13:21
Stskeepson latest version of sailfishos?13:21
VDVsxand enabled there13:21
PaulePanterStskeeps: Yes. Just upgrade to 1.0.5.19 before installing the email app.13:22
Stskeepshmm13:22
StskeepsPaulePanter: VDVsx's one of the e-mail authors, fwiw - if you can answer his questions that'd help13:22
Stskeepsso we can figure out what's going on13:22
PaulePanterVDVsx: Yes. It is shown in the accounts list.13:22
VDVsxPaulePanter, if you go inside do you see your settings ?13:23
PaulePanterI guess the description of the option »Apps erlauben, E-Mails über dein E-Mail allgmein-Konto zu versenden und zu erhalten.« confused me.13:23
PaulePanterVDVsx: Yes.13:23
PaulePanterSo I have to allow the email to use the account?13:23
VDVsxPaulePanter, humm, so what email shows in email app then ?13:24
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PaulePanterIt is confusing as I created the account from within the email menu and then I am supposed to allow it to use the account I just created.13:24
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VDVsxPaulePanter, you don't need to allow anything13:24
PaulePanterVDVsx: Well, it was enabled by default.13:25
VDVsxunless you disable the account by mistake it should show in email app13:25
PaulePanterVDVsx: I enabled the button next to E-Mail in the account settings and now it shows up.13:25
PaulePanterI’ll send a report to improve the German description.13:26
VDVsxok :)13:26
PaulePanterVDVsx: The From input field in the application, the keyboard does not have the @ character on the first keyboard layer which is annoying.13:27
mikmastskeeps: aaand here you go, complete systemboot.log from the moment i got the phone back from "repair" - http://pastebin.com/a4TKB8K413:28
VDVsxPaulePanter, yup, known issue, will be fixed13:28
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TMavicajuiceme here!?13:29
PaulePanterVDVsx: Thanks!13:29
mikmastskeeps: notice the 6(?) reboots i've had today13:29
TMavicai got your TOH half from you already! Thanks13:29
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Quutoh half13:35
Quuhalf of the other half?13:36
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TMavicalol..13:53
fluxTOQ13:53
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coderusTMavica: which models?14:03
TMavicaaloe and black..14:05
TMavicajuiceme send it to me14:06
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coderus:)14:08
coderusjuiceme: need to ask jolla team to unregister toh's and register to your device14:08
coderusor it new ones?14:08
TMavicanew one sure14:10
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TMavicahe buy it from DNA shop and send me14:10
coderusah, good then :)14:11
coderusi just thought he sent own ones14:11
TMavicalol14:11
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TMavicarpm?14:11
TMavicalol14:11
coderusno, i saw yout tweet :)14:12
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TMavicahope 20/5 have Jolla sale, then no need disturb him14:13
fluxToHs need to be unregistered to be moved to another device?14:16
Nicd-the ones with NFC14:16
fluxso, all of them?14:16
Nicd-and jolla will probably refuse to do it without a good reason I would guess (too many requests otherwise)14:16
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ggabrielflux: no, they don't need to be unregistered unless the other device is yours, or in other words: you use the same jolla account14:18
ggabriels/unless/if/ :P14:18
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javispedrohmhm14:49
javispedroso the BLE-WLAN is worse on this device =)14:49
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fluxggabriel, what a nice way to discourage resale of ToHs :-P14:50
flanagit seems that Jolla is claiming that the reboot problems can be fixed by a software update: "These are false alarms and there is a fix for them in the next OS update (update 6)"14:50
flanagany info on this?14:50
flanagoh14:50
flanagand the source: http://www.jollatides.com/forums/discussion/173/intermittent-shutdownreboot-issues-solution14:50
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ggabrielflux: well, yeah, well known tho14:51
ggabrieljavispedro: worse than what?14:51
javispedrothan my previous one14:52
javispedrobut it was a false alarm too, it's exactly the same14:52
javispedroI'm just getting more noise on dmesg, but doesn't seem interesting.14:52
ggabrieloh, you mean 2 jollas14:52
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RST38hEHLO kavispedro14:53
RST38hjavispedro, sorry14:53
javispedrohello RST38h14:53
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javispedroStskeeps: it's probably nothing, but now I get this ( http://depot.javispedro.com/jolla/ble/wlan-ble-dmesg.txt ) while trying to connect to BLE stuff14:56
javispedro(WLAN still goes down)14:56
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* tango_ wants skype (chat, at least) on the jolla15:17
tango_come on, we had it on the N90015:17
bjorntoartist: Hmm, well I have the Android Skype app installed...15:18
tango_bjorn: oh god not that pleast15:18
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tango_it's so frigging heavy15:18
bjornIn the last update they wrote that they made big battery usage improvements and that it can now be left on.15:18
bjornBut well, it's never light-weight enough on mobile.15:19
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gexcandroid skype app eats cpu sometimes15:21
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gexceven at the background15:21
* gexc uninstalled skype15:22
tango_yeah, I'd rather have something integrated with the presence stuff15:22
tango_telepathy or whatever it's called15:22
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Kiranoswhy did jollahq stop using its twitter account?15:23
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javispedrotango_: MS killed SkypeKit so it will never happen now :(15:24
StskeepsKiranos: https://twitter.com/JollaHQ/with_replies15:25
flanagStskeeps: do you know anything about this? <flanag> it seems that Jolla is claiming that the reboot problems can be fixed by a software update: "These are false alarms and there is a fix for them in the next OS update (update 6)"15:26
Stskeepsflanag: i don't have any official opinions on this topic, sorry15:26
javispedroflanag: the source of that assertion seems to be: http://www.jollatides.com/forums/discussion/173/intermittent-shutdownreboot-issues-solution15:27
flanagjavispedro: yeah, I think I posted that earlier15:27
flanag(the source)15:27
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KiranosStskeeps: thanks! that new?15:27
flanagmy Jolla is working beatifully with the piece of paper in there but I'm just asking out of interest :)15:28
flanag*beautifully15:28
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javispedrothey did put a piece of rubber on my device15:30
gexclol15:30
javispedrobut tbh I never got any reboot even after intentionally shaking it heavily15:30
flanagshaking never really caused it15:31
javispedrothen no idea how a rubberpiece or paper would fix it.15:31
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mikmait's just ease of mind. people think it's fixed eventho it's not15:33
flanagmikma: you are wrong15:33
flanagJolla has already confirmed the problem..15:33
flanagit's impedance15:33
mikmalink to the official confirmation post?15:34
flanagI'll get a link for you15:34
flanagI had it stored15:34
flanagit's a bit long:15:35
flanag"Take a piece of paper, fold it so that it becomes 0.5-1 millimeters thick. Then insert this folded paper between the bottom part of the battery and the phone body. The idea is to press the battery tightly upwards against the battery contacts of the phone body (see the attached picture).15:35
flanagWe have measured that if the contact of the battery to the phone body is loose (although it does not seem to be loose), then the impedance over this connection is higher and can cause a voltage drop in some current peak situations, making the phone eventually turn off as the voltage drops momentarily under the allowed minimum level. Then use your phone normally (with mobile data) in those same conditions where your phone usually15:35
flanag reboots. Observe if the reboots continue or not. Thanks a lot!"15:35
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flanaghttps://together.jolla.com/question/7144/jolla-randomly-shuts-down-10516/?sort=votes&amp;page=2#sort-top15:35
flanagthe important part: "..the impedance over this connection is higher and can cause a voltage drop in some current peak situations, making the phone eventually turn off as the voltage drops momentarily under the allowed minimum level."15:35
mikmato me that's not official confirmation :I15:36
flanagwell, it's from Jolla Care15:36
mikmait's just one email a user has forwarded15:36
kimmoli_sailingcheap china contacts? low spring tension?15:36
javispedrothen a thorough shaking would reveal the problem :)15:37
mikmabeen there, shaked that. has not shutdown15:37
flanagjavispedro: nooo, not really15:37
mikmai've been even moving the battery from side to side and nothing15:37
kimmoli_sailingfritting corrosion?15:37
flanagread the damn text15:37
flanagand understand what it says15:37
flanagmikma15:38
mikmai did, flanag15:38
PeperJohnnyWell you would need to have a high cpu load too trigger it15:38
flanagPeperJohnny: exactly15:38
PeperJohnnyto'15:38
javispedroif it's corrosion, then a paper would do little to help.15:38
mikmathe normal situation when my phone turns off is when i open up settings15:38
javispedroif it's low spring force, then shaking would cause it.15:38
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flanagmikma: it seems random because it usually happens when the phone is actively trying to keep the connection to the mobile network, that consumes power15:39
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chem|stshacky devices need to be on their way home guys! my device does not shutdown when I turn on wlan/BT and am calling at the same time, I have no gum/plastic/paper under my battery and pressing my simcard-slot does nothing to my device either!15:39
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flanagmikma: if you don't have your SIM in, the Jolla would probably be quite stable15:39
flanag*if you didn't have15:39
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kimmoli_sailingadd some contact lubrication..15:41
mikmajust because i think it's stupid to fold some papers and rubbers in there, i'm gonna wait for a real official solution from repair service15:41
javispedrochem|st: Jolla/Optima seems to be putting a piece of rubber in all devices, even if they didn't show any reboot problems15:41
chem|stsince apr14 I have glitches in the UI only, no reboots no shutdowns nothing even the modem works like expected...15:41
javispedrochem|st: so there must be something15:41
chem|stjavispedro: precautious15:41
flanagmikma: the official solution is the glued piece of rubber15:41
javispedrochem|st: I agree.15:41
mikmajavispedro: i got my phone back from repair about 9 days ago and they didn't glue anything in there. they just upgraded the software (from latest to lower ;)15:41
javispedrochem|st: but still, must be something15:42
chem|stsomething wrong15:42
flanagit's a bit weird that they claim that they can fix it with a software update15:42
flanagmaybe they can adjust the "safe values" so that the phone won't "panic" and shut down15:43
javispedrothere may be a million issues whose symptom is "random reboots".15:43
PeperJohnnyMaybe they'll lower the voltage?15:43
javispedroit's no surprise some of them may be fixed by a software upgrade.15:43
chem|stflanag: the shutdown is initialized not accidential15:43
mikmaremove the shutdown from software, problem solved15:44
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flanaglol15:44
chem|stmikma: and your battery gone too15:44
javispedronext you hear, your battery explodes on a plane15:44
mikmawheeeeeee!15:44
mikmathat would make about all jolla users terrorists15:44
chem|stif you do not shutdown at a proper time your battery may get damaged15:44
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flanagchem|st: are you refering to the fact that lithium ion batteries get damaged at too low charge?15:46
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javispedromeh, so it's been _only_ two months where I wasn't constantly checking whether upgrades broke MTP15:47
javispedroaaaaand  yes, it's broken15:47
javispedroI am really, really depressed these days about the state of Linux desktops.15:47
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javispedroseems that gvfs is expected udev env var ID_MTP but my "systemd-udev" scripts are exporting ID_MTP_DEVICE15:49
javispedro*is expecting15:49
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* javispedro curses silently and decides to go for a walk15:49
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pahartikchem|st: If shutdown is not controlled, solid-state block storage device may also end up in uncertain state15:52
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chem|stpahartik: it may damage other parts, not only ssds15:58
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niuranhi, waiting for update 6, it is comming soon, isn't it?18:03
Stskeepsthere's always an upate coming18:04
niuranmaybe in this week?18:04
Stskeepsno clue, comes when it comes18:04
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niuranbecose i have some problems with the update 518:05
flanagwhat problems?18:05
niuranthe phone restarts in many different situations, and never done that before18:06
niuranfor example, in the middle of a phone call18:06
flanagstick some paper under the bottom side of the battery..18:06
niuranswitching between data and wifi18:06
flanagofficial answer to the problem:18:06
flanag "Take a piece of paper, fold it so that it becomes 0.5-1 millimeters thick. Then insert this folded paper between the bottom part of the battery and the phone body. The idea is to press the battery tightly upwards against the battery contacts of the phone body (see the attached picture). We have measured that if the contact of the battery to the phone body is loose (although it does not seem to be loose), then the impedance ove18:06
flanagr this connection is higher and can cause a voltage drop in some current peak situations, making the phone eventually turn off as the voltage drops momentarily under the allowed minimum level. Then use your phone normally (with mobile data) in those same conditions where your phone usually Observe if the reboots continue or not. Thanks a lot!"18:06
flanagor alternatively you can get it fixed through warranty18:07
niurani have read about that, i will test it, but why do that now and never before?18:07
niurani will test it18:08
flanagweeeell, maybe the battery contacts got looser or something18:08
flanagit's so random18:08
flanagit's worth a try18:08
niuranyes, but i suspect it should be related with the strengh of the signal, or when it switchs between wi-fi and data18:09
niuransometimes data get disconected18:10
flanagnah, I had similar problems and the reason was the battery connection ^18:10
niuranand can not enable until the phone reboot18:10
Stskeepsless strength -> more voltage pull18:10
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niuranok, i will try the battery and the paper18:10
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flanagniuran: I could almost bet that if you do it correctly, you'll never see the problems again18:11
niurani will test it and look if the issue is solved18:12
TeguI just experienced some weird reboot/stuck. the LED started blinking quickly. I tried to open the screen, it worked, but then the swipes didin't register after a few secs. then the screen went black and the led started blinking red quickly. I tried to shut down but it the red light kept glowing (differently now). eventually the power went off. now it's on a table with the battery out, going to power it on soon18:12
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niuranin my case, the screen turns off and the phone restarts in about 15 seconds18:13
niuranor manually18:13
niuranby the way, hope to be able to buy another battery in jolla store18:14
niuran(when avaliable)18:14
Teguyea, replaceable battery is pretty useless if it's not possible to buy one18:17
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AlmAckTegu: same problem here, after the latest update. I hope that the update of May fix it.19:16
Teguyup, it hasn't happened before the latest update (dunno if it has only been luck)19:17
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Andenhi, noticed a bug in the media player, dunno if it was reported before?19:23
Andenwhen listening to audio books encoded in mp3, 64kb/s mono 22khz, the timer that's supposed to show you how far you're into the file is frozen at 0:0019:24
Andenand even worse, the audio skips every once in a while as if it the file was corrupted19:24
Andeni have narrowed down this bug to the media player because i downloaded an android media player and played the same file just fine on the jolla too19:25
Andenalso if i play the file from the file browser the file skips the same way19:25
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pdanek1Which GPS sport tracking apps do you use on Jolla?20:21
pdanek1Like Endomondo etc.20:21
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Quu.. sports20:27
Quubut you need to go outside for that20:27
Quueww20:27
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pdanek1:D20:34
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