#jollamobile log for Saturday, 2014-09-06

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ShihuaNobody ?05:07
ShihuaMaybe ,you are  sleeping.05:08
ShihuaHere is light.And you?05:09
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atj_win 2709:46
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ballockStskeeps: I got a valid aero2 SIM. Works like a charm on Jolla. No issues.10:04
Stskeepsballock: excellent10:04
Stskeepsso it was indeed denied?10:04
ballockCalling didn't crash, just disconnect, as expected (this sim doesn't call)10:04
ballockSMSes failed to be sent, with the right information on it.10:05
Stskeepsnod10:05
ballockSo it looks good.10:05
Stskeepsglad to hear10:05
ballockYes. That one was denied indeed.10:05
Stskeepswe could probably be better at telling it in the ui10:05
tbrsup ballock, how's life10:06
ballockIt wouldn't hurt, but it's on par with N900 and Samsung Young at the moment.10:06
ballocktbr: life's good :)10:06
tbrnice to hear10:07
ballockworking conditions are very good10:07
tbrthat's very nice10:07
ballockI need to find a similar company in the civil engineering field, for my wife10:07
ballockIt should be the other way round, that the husband is stressed out, not the wife ;)10:07
ballockI guess being an IT person is just too good :D10:08
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ballocktbr: how's yours?10:09
tbrsame old, same old.10:09
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narchie2so when will email app be fixed10:11
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tbrnarchie2: starts fine here, what's your problem?10:12
Aciidheard somethings up10:14
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Aciidnarchie: how about stop using gmail10:14
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tadzikshots fired10:24
narchiehow about error messages without having to configure logging10:25
narchiewhat a waste of time10:25
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tadzikwell, ability to set up send and trash folders would be nice10:29
tadzikbut isn't that thing just Modest in disguise?10:29
Stskeepsno, modest was based off tinymail(?) i think10:30
Stskeepsthis is QMF10:30
Stskeepshttp://modest.garage.maemo.org/10:30
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ShihuaHow to install the drivers for Jolla in W7?10:45
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StskeepsShihua: depends which ones you need, at least MTP should happen without problem10:46
ShihuaThanks.10:47
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ShihuaIf I downloaded something from PC to my Jolla, How to make it exit sagely.10:49
Shihuasafely10:49
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Stskeepsshould be safe by standard10:52
Stskeepsit's not usb mass storage10:52
tbryeah, MTP should be atomic10:52
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ShihuaYour meaning is  that I can pull up Jolla ?when I downloaded my need.10:57
Stskeepsyeah10:57
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ShihuaThanks for your  replies.10:58
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tadzikStskeeps: is the email app open?11:00
Stskeepsno, frameworks are though11:01
tadzikI see11:01
tadzikI suppose the things I miss are frontend side though anyway11:01
tadzikbesides, I can't even get to release DogeNow :o11:01
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Stskeepsmm?11:13
Shinryuu:O11:13
* tbr ponders if there is a good resource to read about D-Bus design concepts11:14
tbrlast time I got lost in some doxygen crap11:14
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Stskeepsdbus is designed?11:16
Stskeeps:P11:16
r0kk3rzthere is, i'll see if i can find what I was reading11:16
tbrI feel it would be very beneficial to understand general concept and also usage principles. As I need to bridge into that from the push notification service.11:18
r0kk3rzthe general concept isnt very complicated11:18
tbryes, I know the basics11:18
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r0kk3rzhttps://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/D-Bus/Creating_Interfaces11:19
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r0kk3rzthis is pretty useful for coding11:19
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tbrmeh, application developer perspective11:20
tbrthat's NOT what I'm looking for11:20
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tbrI'm looking for a system integration/architecture perspective11:22
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tbrback to the roots it is: http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-tutorial.html11:28
r0kk3rzthats likely going to be different on different platforms that implement dbus11:28
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r0kk3rzdbus itself is just a way to describe an application interface11:30
tbrcorrect, and I prefer to gain a wider understanding of WTF I'm dealing with before I narrow it down to the implementation at hand11:30
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r0kk3rzsounds like a good practice11:31
tbrthere are e.g. wide security implications if I go down the wrong route with this.11:32
tbre.g. I'm very sure I don't want to allow sending of arbitrary dbus messages from the push server to the device11:32
tbrI wan this to be ideally inherently safe, but flexible/seamless.11:34
r0kk3rzthere a qt classes to define a dbus adaptor11:34
r0kk3rzbasically a class that wraps your main class11:34
r0kk3rzwhich defines your dbus interface, and you can do whatever checks/balances you want11:35
tbrr0kk3rz: I'm not writing an application11:35
tbrr0kk3rz: https://twitter.com/tbr23/status/49637258141998284811:38
r0kk3rznot sure i understand11:38
r0kk3rzah i see11:39
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r0kk3rzyes that will have wide security implicatons11:39
tbrthis has potentially wide reaching implications and thus I want to be _really_ sure I understand things correctly11:39
r0kk3rzunderstood11:39
tbrnot only security11:40
tbralso usability by applications that want to get messages etc11:40
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r0kk3rzyeah i think i would want to control what types of messages are relayed11:44
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tbrcurrent working hypothesis: messages are sent to a specific method(?) that apps are expected to implement if they want to receive messages11:46
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tbrand I probably want to restrict the server API usage to per-app-endpoint, not just per device11:47
tbrthat way a token can be used to send messages to one app on one device11:47
r0kk3rzout messages are signals11:48
r0kk3rzwhich recieving applications watch for and act on11:48
tbrI need to go back and look at which parts of the ubuntu touch push system are open by now11:49
r0kk3rzlike a broadcast packet basically11:49
tbrtheir documentation looked quite thin though11:49
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r0kk3rzactually, i guess what you want is your own version of this: http://specifications.freedesktop.org/mpris-spec/latest/12:06
r0kk3rzwhich i'm currently implementing12:06
r0kk3rzits a dbus api spec for media players12:07
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r0kk3rzthere may already be a spec for generic notifications12:10
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tbrr0kk3rz: thanks, that's interesting. requiring it to be below a common path is one possible approach yes, and something I want to figure out if it's better that way or by each app having their own dbus path but standardized way to address it12:21
r0kk3rzeach app announces their own name12:23
r0kk3rzbut uses a standardised interface and method structure12:23
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r0kk3rzso you can have many apps which are all individually addressable12:23
tbryes, I'm still figuring out the naming conventions and usage conventions both for paths and interfaces12:23
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r0kk3rzyeah i'm not too sure how the other side of that media player interface works12:24
tbrso my question is org.example.push.app-a vs org.acme.push12:24
r0kk3rzhow it gets the various mediaplayers and decides which one to control12:24
tbrbut I'll read more about dbus to get a clue12:25
tbrthen those things should be more obvious12:25
tbrbut yeah, this spec looks pretty good as a blueprint, thanks again12:25
r0kk3rzbut using the org.example.push.app-a method allows you to filter dbus by org.example.push.*12:26
tbrright, that's a good point12:26
r0kk3rzand means you only have one variable in your code for deciding who to relay messages to12:26
r0kk3rzwhich is the service name, which makes sense12:26
r0kk3rzbut there may be other ways to do that, i'm fairly new to dbus myself12:27
tbrand the proxy just forwards all incoming push messages to org.example.push.$variable, where $variable is part of the push message protocol12:27
tbrbut then I'm wondering if I need to maintain a "canonical list" of apps12:28
tbror if it's just responsibility of app developers to be unique12:28
r0kk3rzthey will need to be unique, but any canonical list is likely to never be complete12:30
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r0kk3rzif your spec is public, and people want to implement it, they will12:30
tbrwell there is going to be a central push message service12:31
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tbrfiguring out a reasonably easy but secure way to arrange authentication will also be fun12:32
r0kk3rzyeah good luck with that, dbus seems fairly public12:33
tbrr0kk3rz: oh, sure I can't stop apps just listening to dbus12:34
tbrr0kk3rz: each app would need to ensure security itself, e.g. by encrypting messages themselves.12:35
inztbr, if you wish to send a message to several D-Bus clients, wouldn't a signal make more sense?12:35
Stskeepsfg12:36
Stskeepser, ignore me..12:36
tbrinz: I want to send a message to _one_ client12:36
* tbr sends Stskeeps a CTRL-z12:36
tbrinz: one client at a time that is12:36
tbrinz: look at the high level architecture that I posted12:36
inzI did12:37
tbrso how would I address App-A if I just essentially send an undirected broadcast?12:38
inzI didn't understand you would need to12:38
tbrok, let's illustrate by a use case:12:39
r0kk3rztbr, you'd put it in the message contents12:39
r0kk3rzthen its up to the app to decide whether the message is for it12:39
tbrIRC hilights, IRC client (e.g. irssi) wants to notify the user of an event, sends a message with a token to a API server, that forwards it then to the correct device, on that the proxy then needs to deliver it to the right app so that it does something with it.12:40
tbrr0kk3rz: that sounds like adding an abstraction layer that might just not be necessary12:41
r0kk3rzyeah i dont like it either12:42
r0kk3rzthe other way seems to be better12:42
tbrI'll keep digging around in D-Bus, properly understanding it is the key here IMHO12:42
tbrelse it's all theory12:42
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r0kk3rzfeel free to share your findings12:43
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tbrwill do12:43
inzHumm, at least if the apps register themselves to the notifier component, you gain autostart12:43
inzWith signals that couldn't be done12:43
tbryes, being able to start apps would be useful12:44
inzbtw, please also consider pop in your spec, not only push12:45
inzSo that notifications can be hidden too, if the event is handled elsewhere12:45
tbrubuntu-touch seems to go through intermediate steps here and I'm not sure if that's good. They put messages in an mailbox structure, display system notifications and only then start an app that then needs to explicitly ask for its mailbox12:46
inzI guess that is good for preventing data loss12:46
inzBut then again you would not lose the data, only the notification if things fail, which wouldn't be that bad12:47
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inzBut delivering the data to app (or it's backend daemon) gives more flexibility wrt/notifications12:47
inzBut the details are always balancing between the all-too-simple and way-too-complex12:50
tbryeah, that's why I didn't consider that for now12:50
inzThe telepathy D-Bus APIs are (in my experience) a good example of a powerful D-Bus API, but it is quite complex to use12:50
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inztbr, btw, where can I has irssi notifier ;)13:00
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inztbr, my old way of using shell title is not very elegant13:00
tbrinz: let me create an account on the test service for you13:01
inztbr, that would be awesomest =)13:02
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tbrinz: the read account goes on the device. note that currently there is a bug in the irssi script that will make irssi block if the message can't be sent to the server.13:07
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Stskeepshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUREX8aFbMs#t=10 - Volcano Eruption in Papua New Guinea13:38
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tbrshockwave?13:43
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tbrah, yes, fun13:46
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r0kk3rztbr: the mailbox on ubuntu-touch makes sense now I think about it13:56
r0kk3rzas you cant guarantee that the endpoint services are running13:57
r0kk3rzor crashed, or otherwise not listening13:57
tbrr0kk3rz: I still think its unnecessarily complicated.13:58
tbrr0kk3rz: I could see it as an optional delivery method, maybe. Main thing you want though is that your app gets some message, now.13:59
tbrI guess they don't want to deal with random apps starting and doing things.13:59
tbrtoo bad they are so reclusive and unwilling to discuss things14:00
r0kk3rzwell your proxy service is going to want to be fault tolerant14:00
tbrthey have a mailing list but nobody posts there14:00
r0kk3rzso what is the action to take if the method call fails? drop notification?14:00
tbrI guess that could be defined.14:01
r0kk3rzfire and forget, or store and forward type pattern basically14:01
tbrMQTT also knows something called QoS14:01
tbrwhere 0 is "it might get there" and other layers then various levels of "it will get there for sure"14:01
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tbrgiven that this is my free time project I'm not really inclined to add much complexity though14:02
tbrunless of course people want to join in and help14:02
Sail0rr0kk3rz: mpris on it's way?14:02
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r0kk3rzSail0r: got a basic mpris player interace in there today, need to implement the rest of the required items though14:05
Sail0rnice14:05
Sail0r:)14:05
r0kk3rzi think i'll need something that consumes the API though14:06
r0kk3rzbecause of course I can test my implementation, but is the implementation of the spec right?14:07
Sail0rI can test at least if it's working with pebbled which uses the mpris interface to communicate with the players14:07
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r0kk3rzwell i poked around with quasarmx which helped me understand how it should act14:10
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Sail0rHow do I get QtSparql ? Trying to build your project currently and it fails with qtspargl not found14:13
r0kk3rzthrough the sailfish menu in qtc14:13
r0kk3rzi wrote up a step by step here >> http://sailfishwayfarer.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/qt5sparql-and-tracker.html14:14
tbrooh, I spy a blog to be added to the sailfish planet14:14
r0kk3rzi wouldnt test it yet14:14
r0kk3rztheres only a very small amount of methods exposed there14:15
r0kk3rzie play, pause, stop, next, previous14:15
Sail0rthat's all I need at the moment ;)14:17
r0kk3rzgive it a try14:18
r0kk3rzbut it might be missing things it needs14:18
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Sail0rdoes not build at the moment http://fpaste.org/131507/10013198/14:20
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tbrupdated: http://planet.devaamo.fi/sailfish/14:21
r0kk3rzmaybe i didnt save before throwing it up on git14:22
Sail0rhehe14:22
r0kk3rzbuilds in my environment atm, i'll double check then update git14:22
Sail0rdisplaying the currently played song via mpris is much more complex i think14:23
Sail0rbecause it's a huge array isn't it?14:24
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r0kk3rzyeah havent even looked at that yet14:25
r0kk3rzbut shouldnt be too hard14:25
Sail0rit looks very huge when looking for it with dbus-monitor when quasarmx changes the song ^^14:26
r0kk3rzgit has my latest code14:26
Sail0rbuilds now :)14:27
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r0kk3rzthats a start14:30
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mefistoyeap14:32
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r0kk3rzSail0r: did it work?16:07
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Sailor8545hello sailors18:51
Stskeepsmoo18:51
DrainBamagedBaa18:51
Sailor8545is it just my illusion, or number of new apps in store is just lower and lower? :/18:52
Stskeepswell, summer is a strong season for app development18:52
Stskeepspeople are on holidays18:52
Stskeepsit all goes downhill after there.. :P18:52
Sailor8545ah right18:52
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Shinryuuhehe18:59
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r0kk3rzneed qtsparql to be allowed before my app can get on the official store19:03
r0kk3rzand possibly others now19:04
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kimmolitbr: my daughter jolla suffers from sudden reboots during video capture (in a crowded place, lots of teens there). I will take some closeup-photos from contactarea tomorrow before rubbing. lubricant not yet arrived.19:20
tbrkimmoli: ah, great, finally a test subject we can examine :)19:21
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kimmolimy colleague did broke front-glass from his jolla, have to overtalk to him selling it to me...19:21
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Yanielis anyone else annoyed by the fact that te fastest way to clearthe play queue is to restart the mediaplayer app?19:24
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tadzikI didn't even notice, there's many stupid things about the mediaplayer app :)19:25
r0kk3rzthis is why i wrote my own19:25
r0kk3rzeasier to fix annoyances that way19:25
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Stskeepsi'm a spotify user. i will admit, i don't use the media player app :P19:27
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Stskeepsthen again, i rarely touch my mp3 collection either19:27
tadzikI still think the stock media app is closest to what I want one to be19:27
tadzikbecause it does have a concept of a play queue19:27
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Yanielyes but it still needs some tweaking19:27
tadziksure19:27
tadzikI wish it was open19:28
r0kk3rzmine has a play queue19:28
tadzikbut it doesn't have an artist view yet, right19:28
YanielI wish tracker would be fixed too19:28
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tadzikI'm looking forward to it :)19:28
r0kk3rznah not yet19:28
tadzikI'm glad you're doing this so I don't have to :P19:28
tadzikI'm too lazy to get anything done these days19:29
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tadzikmust be something with steam on linux19:29
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Yanielhehe19:29
Stskeeps+119:31
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r0kk3rztrackers not so bad, perhaps needs more event based mining19:37
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YanielI'mstill not seeing album covers though19:38
r0kk3rzthats probably not trackers fault19:40
r0kk3rzand depends on where they are defined19:41
Yanielcover.jpg files in the album folders19:41
Yanieland actually it works for mp3 files19:42
Yanielboth the separate file and embedded covers19:42
Yanielbut not for flac nor aac19:43
tadzikI always have to bump the tracker myself, but I copy files through sshfs19:43
meklusshfs doesn't sound too great :/19:43
Yanielsshfs is awesome19:44
mekluthe idea of a network-mounted userspace filesystem...19:44
meklu*brr*19:44
tadzikit's the only way with MTP :/19:44
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YanielI used rsync over ssh though19:44
mekluI just rsync my stuff over ssh19:44
tadzikthat's good too19:44
tadzikbut when I'm fixing tags with find and id3tool I use sshfs19:44
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tango_btw, does anybody know of a car cellphone holder that works with the jolla?20:37
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Stskeepsshouldn't the usual universal ones do?20:39
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tango_Stskeeps: no idea20:49
Nicd-for some reason charging my jolla from my car charger is really really slow20:50
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Nicd-even though the same charger works for my wife's iphone quite fine20:50
tango_Nicd-: it might tell the iphone "i'm an iphone charger, you can draw more amps"20:51
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Nicd-I dunno, it's supposed to offer 2A for a single device and 1A for two devices20:55
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teveI've a 2.1A deltaco charger and usually phones (jolla/n9) complain that there is no enough current available.21:13
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teveand really old nokia chager at work (around 300mA ) charges phones w/o problems.21:16
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coderusTMavica: :D21:26
coderuswhy you can't explain your problem from beginning, why i need to ask it? :D21:27
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coderusr0kk3rz: stop spamming with your nickname change :D21:31
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mekluwowie21:40
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mekluthat is one flaky connection21:40
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pdanekhttp://youtu.be/MOXQo7nURs022:03
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phlixi_r0kk3rz: are you trying to save traffic by beeing here only half the time?23:07
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tadzikhe's blinking back and forth between the Material Plane and the Ethereal Plane23:13
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ShadowJKcool, flashlight is no longer spyware? only now noticed :)23:15
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tadzikwaht :o23:17
ShadowJK?23:18
tadzikflashlight used to be spyware?23:18
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ShadowJKya23:18
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peppelakappaif i am not wrong, there was some sort of "usage data reporter"23:18
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ShadowJKyes23:19
ShadowJKReported on when you used it, how long, how often,etc etc23:19
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phlixinaturally i would not expect that from an maemo/harmattan/jolla app23:21
phlixi...where as I would exped an android/ios app to do at least that...23:21
peppelakappa+123:21
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phlixior to be more specific, apps from official major stores for ios /android (woulndt expect that from f-droid as well)23:23
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