#jollamobile log for Saturday, 2014-10-04

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Morpog_PC___I don't want a N900 successor07:28
Morpog_PC___oh he left07:29
Stskeepsi kinda do07:29
Stskeepsn900 was a damn workhorse07:29
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Morpog_PC___Stskeeps, hope my explanation there was correct: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1441810&postcount=24907:35
* Stskeeps looks07:35
Stskeepslong story short we can't scale displays sanely with 5.1, scenegraph is the main motivato07:36
Stskeepsr07:36
Stskeepsbut yes, apis matter too07:36
Stskeepsand memory consumption on GPU/rendering side is a lot lower, too07:36
Morpog_PC___ah, so also a matter for a new device or android adaptions07:37
Stskeepsyes, sometimes you have to futureproof07:37
Stskeepsi mean, there's devices with 1080p and 2K these days..07:37
Morpog_PC___still so useless in my eyes :D07:37
Stskeepsuntil you see 1080p sailfish07:37
Stskeepsso beautiful07:38
Morpog_PC___well, 1080p on >5" displays07:38
Morpog_PC___but 2k is just overkill07:38
Stskeepsbut pixels07:39
Stskeeps:P07:39
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Morpog_PC___lol07:41
Morpog_PC___even on my Jolla screen I only see the low resolution on small fonts, which is caused by the narrow sailfish font07:42
Morpog_PC___I guess it would be already perfect with 720p07:42
Stskeepsit was fun playing the 'what resolution is this' game before we announced indeed07:42
Stskeepspeople can't see it07:43
Morpog_PC___*nod*07:44
* kimmoli was ditracted what i was doing.. (waiting 4K display to arrive in phone-size devices)07:48
Morpog_PC___can't be long :)07:49
Morpog_PC___and then they will wonder why the battery lasts so less and why games start to have low fps :D07:50
Stskeepsi've seen a 4K TV.. and now i want one07:50
Stskeeps:P07:50
Stskeepsnot to mention that there's very little HD content on tv here in first place..07:50
kimmolii have seen few, and trying to avoid seeing more07:50
kimmolibefore "shutupandtakemymoney"07:50
Morpog_PC___Stskeeps, sure 4K would be great, aslong there would be enough content. Unless that I see that as useless07:50
kimmolibut you can use bolder fonts then...07:51
Morpog_PC___Thats why I will get another 1080p TV at the end of the year (65") :D07:51
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Stskeepsalso, qt5.2 helps on lower end too07:52
Morpog_PC___I have seen a two 65" Samung TV next to each other from Samsung. One with 4K and one with 1080p, it was running HDTV and the 4k one looked less good07:52
Stskeeps5.1 was already pretty good on firefox os style hw07:52
kimmoli(we got OT i see)07:52
Stskeepshttp://www.sletta.org/apps/blog/show/42708211-looking-at-throughput-in-qt-quick07:53
kimmolifail07:53
Morpog_PC___hmmm, so in future sailfish could run well on 512mb devices?07:54
Stskeepsno promises07:54
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Stskeepsandroid support pushes those things completely out the window in general07:54
Stskeeps:P07:54
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Stskeepsand it's always a gamble.. next year's low end is 1gig, quad core..07:56
Stskeeps:P07:56
Morpog_PC___hopefully, we need more ram :D07:57
kimmolitypically RAM is cheap, but not actually true in(side) mobile-devices07:57
Morpog_PC___which is a shame07:58
kimmoliat work, while i have been working there, we have come from 8 MHz to 800 MHz (single-core)07:58
kimmoliskipped all 16-bit CPUs07:58
kimmoliand with data-rates, from 375 kbits to 1Gbits (main network 1Mbits to 100MBits)07:59
kimmoliso 1:100 scale.08:00
kimmolicomponents on PCB is like 50 -> 100008:01
Morpog_PC___well my first "PC" (Amiga500) got 512KB ram which I upgraded to 1MB for lots of money back then :D Now my PC got 16GB08:02
kimmoliRAM from 32kbytes to 256MBytes08:03
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kimmolii had amstrad PC with 512M (upgraded to 640K by adding chips on top of old ones and some wirewrap wire08:04
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kimmoliit had two 5" floppies, and then it was upgraded to have a 3½" floppy drive too08:05
kimmoliin a wooden box outside the casing...08:05
Morpog_PC___thankfully I skipped the 5" floppy's :D08:07
kimmoliit had GEOS08:07
kimmoli"same" as Nokia 900008:07
kimmolior not... it did run as UI on top of DOS08:07
kimmoliit is so long time, that need to "verify facts" from wikipedia :)08:08
Morpog_PC___:D08:08
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ggabrielkimmoli: geos.... wow08:15
ggabrielgeos was great08:15
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AL13Nlol @ "kimmoli: i had amstrad PC with 512M"09:11
AL13Ni had a 8086 from '85 which had been upgraded to 640K with 2 5" floppy bays09:13
AL13Nand a 8088 from my birth year '81 , which had one 5" and one 3½" floppy drive09:13
ggabrielok, if we're gonna compete i started with a c64 which wasn't upgradeable :P09:13
kimmoli:)09:14
AL13Ndoe the c64 count?09:14
kimmoliit is still kicking...09:14
ggabriel(it did have a floppy disk drive but you had to flip the diskette to read the other side)09:14
AL13Ndid anyon ever had the 4004 cpu?09:14
ggabrielwell, my first programming experience was with a c6409:14
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AL13Nstill, i think kimmoli wins09:14
kimmolii had original commodore matrix-printer...09:14
AL13Nwith his Amtrad with 512M haha09:14
kimmoli(515k)09:15
kimmolikfsadfsd09:15
kimmoligrr09:15
ggabrielmy first bbs ran on a c6409:15
ggabrielwell, c128 in c64 mode09:15
ggabriel512M of RAM sounds like a lot09:15
AL13Nand he upgraded it to 640K09:15
AL13Nlol09:15
kimmoli I tried to fool09:15
kimmolibut you got me09:15
AL13Ni guess ggabriel didn't notice it :-)09:15
ggabrieli don't know the amstrad sadly09:16
ggabrielpersonal computer history really depends on where you are from/grew up09:16
ggabrieland whatever was available/affordable09:16
AL13Nit doesn't matter, when you upgrade 512M to 640K, you know something's up09:16
kimmolithe powersupply was in monitor-part, and 5V etc was carried to mainunit via ext cable09:16
ggabrielah, i didn't pay attention ;)09:16
kimmoliAL13N: i got it. tnx.09:16
ggabrielalso: 640k sounds like a lot too ;)09:17
ggabrielmy first xt had 1M RAM09:17
AL13Nkimmoli: i was just explaining to ggabriel...09:17
AL13Nmines didn't have hard drives09:18
AL13Ndidn't the amstrads have hard drives?09:18
ggabrielmy xt had a hard drive, really handy actually09:18
ggabrielin comparison with the norm then09:18
kimmolii got 20MB drive later to that, after it had to add extra fans and heatsinks to the power, and extra capacitors to main-unit09:18
AL13Ni jumped from 8088 to a pentium MMX09:19
ggabrielwow09:19
ggabrielthat must have felt strange09:19
AL13Ni had nothing in between09:19
AL13Nfrom DOS to win95...09:19
ggabrieli only skipped the 28609:19
AL13Nthe novelty wore off soon09:19
ggabrielthen had pretty much everything in between09:19
ggabrieluntil intel started releasing chips retardedly09:20
kimmolioo 286-12MHz (or was it 12.5MHz) was a rocket after amstrad09:20
AL13Nmy parents had no money, the pentium was the first new PC, all the others had been wore-me-downs09:20
AL13Nafter the pentium, i learned more of hardware and put in a K6-II09:20
ggabrielon a serious note, when you're a kid/young/have lots of time, it's a shame that money is a limiter for access to computers09:20
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AL13Nit had 2.1GB HD09:21
AL13Nggabriel: we lived in the red... mostly due to bad decisions on my parents part09:21
AL13Nbut they didn't listen to me09:21
kimmolii remember the feeling when got first 20GByte HDD09:21
AL13Ncause i was just a kid09:21
AL13Nthe 2.1GB was WD09:22
AL13Nit broke09:22
AL13Nand the replacement was 3.2GB09:22
AL13Nthat one broke too09:22
kimmolione strange things were these removable Zippy and bernoulli-box things09:22
AL13Nand the replacement was 4.6GB09:22
AL13Nthen that one broke too and got me a 6.4GB09:22
AL13Nand that one broke and that got me another 6.4GB09:23
AL13Nthen i bought a new disk, and wanted another brand09:23
ggabrielAL13N: parents never listen to their kids, they know better ;)09:23
kimmoliyou are living in same apartment, and you have logs written on wall ?09:23
* ggabriel bbl - run09:23
AL13Nbut it's nice that WD upgraded me freely from 2.1GB to 6.4GB09:23
AL13Nkimmoli: i did wrote something on the wall when i was 509:24
AL13Nbut not logs09:24
AL13Nthe price for the WD upgrade was loss of data... which i wasn't willing to pay09:24
kimmolithat s**ks09:25
AL13Nafter a few maxtors, i got seagate and never looked back09:25
* AL13N shrugs, HD's break, that's what they do09:25
kimmoliurf, i was coding something... the lipstick crashed, and got distracted...09:26
AL13Ni didn't know the importance of backup back then09:26
AL13Noh :-(09:26
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Sail0rhttps://together.jolla.com/question/57698/warning-phone-bricked-after-updates/12:24
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Stskeepssigh12:27
Stskeepsif you update system packages with a third party package manager you're bound to get hurt in some way12:28
Stskeepswe don't at all QA that scenario, nor can we12:28
ggabrielyou can also restore factory settings12:32
ggabrielso technically not bricked12:32
Sail0rI wonder why the people just update everything without thinking ^^12:33
Sail0rbut a pkcon update or zypper up would do the same? Wouldn't it?12:33
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Morpog_PC___sounds like update9 is imminent :D12:35
Morpog_PC___or the guy just enabled random repos :D12:36
ggabrielwell, if you enable these extra repos, any upate would trigger changes from those repos12:36
ggabrielyou just need to know what you're doing or at least be prepared for the consequences12:37
Morpog_PC___let's see if I can get latest Maui running in virtualbox12:38
Sail0rwell I must say in the past I also did a zypper up and smth out of the normal jolla repos got updated12:38
Sail0rthat's a normal thing for linux users to sometimes run a update command ^^12:39
w00tdon't use that12:39
Sail0rI know it now12:39
w00tuse version --whateveritis (version --dup?) or zypper dup if you absolutely must touch zypper12:39
coderus*warehouse*: pss, want update? :D12:40
Sail0rbut I don't understand why the updates make it to the normal repo if they are not intended to be installed ;)12:40
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Sail0rzypper lu says12:43
Sail0rNo updates found.12:43
Sail0r:)12:43
Sail0ron my jolla12:43
w00tSail0r: they don't. but the point of dup is that it will also *downgrade* things, up won't12:43
Sail0rI wonder where the updates which this guy got came from12:44
ggabrielgoogle play, they don't like competition so they make destructive updates for other mobile os's :)12:47
Sail0rhehe12:47
Morpog_PC___mmh, no chance getting Maui to run in virtualbox12:51
Morpog_PC___kinda interested as it's based on mer, uses QT5 and bases on KDE512:52
Stskeepshrm, thought plfiorini had it12:53
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plfioriniMorpog_PC___, Stskeeps current vbox package doesn't like gcc 4.8.x it needs an update13:05
Stskeepsarh, ok13:05
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Morpog_PC___ok, so no need to try more :D13:05
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plfiorinibesides i don't know if the wayland status on virtualbox has improved13:08
plfioriniat some point i had it running on the framebuffer but it's suboptimal13:08
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plfioriniStskeeps, btw it seems i fixed that weird error i had the other day13:09
Stskeepsgood13:09
plfiorinitar canno be updated :)13:09
Stskeepsah..13:09
plfiorinii had a new tar that gave an error creating the glibc-inject tar13:10
plfiorinisomething like cannot change permission to /usr/libexec/getconf/: already exists13:10
Stskeepsok, not sure about that13:10
plfioriniand trying to fix i must have done something wrong, so i just reverted to mer's tar and rebuilt glibc-inject13:11
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gogetaStskeeps, i know you are so busy13:16
gogetaany news from btrfs front13:17
gogeta?13:17
gogetai'm going runout of metadata space13:17
Stskeepshttp://memegenerator.net/instance/5499466613:17
gogetaand chunk usage is about 13Gb ... is near full13:17
gogetaStskeeps, i don't wanna brick13:18
gogetajust this13:18
gogetai've find a litle trick13:18
Stskeepsi don't have any useful knowledge of btrfs.13:18
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gogetaevery 7 days13:18
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gogetabalance -dusage !3613:19
gogetabut if i go over jolla crash and reboot loop13:19
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gogetabut free almost 1Gb13:20
pdanekShould I buy upcoming Nexus 6 and hope for Sailfish port on it?13:22
pdanekOr should I wait for Jolla 2?13:22
pdanekI need huge display13:22
pdanekNot sure if Jolla 2 will have that.13:22
pdanek5" is minimum13:22
gogetanexus 513:23
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gogetai think is not a big display the problem13:23
gogetai think is lack of scaling the problem13:24
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pdanekgogeta: Is Sailfish on Nexus 5 working 100%?13:30
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gogetais a ported phone btw13:30
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pdanekI know, but is Sailfish on Nexus 5 perfectly functional, same as on Jolla?13:31
pdanekBecause if yes, what is the reason why people buy Jolla and not Nexus 5?13:32
raa700TOH13:35
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Raimpdanek: Android apps on Sailfish OS only work on the Jolla13:39
Nicd-and the HADK version of SFOS is not exactly stable yet afaik13:41
Nicd-and not all hardware features work13:42
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pdanek1I see.13:44
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ArtVandalaeAnd it helps to (financially) back Jolla, to help back "Linux on the mobile"13:50
louisdkI must say as times goes by I look more and more at BB10 and the Blackberry devices. Sailfish still feels kinda beta still at times (at Jolla Phone) and things gets delayed by Jolla very often. I still have to use a lot of Android which drains the battery rapidly to have a useful phone.13:54
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Morpog_PC___seriously?13:55
Morpog_PC___my Jolla last as long or even longer than the nexus 4 of my sister13:55
Morpog_PC___everyone knew that he would get an emerging OS when Jolla launched.13:56
Morpog_PC___I expected much less from SailfishOS13:57
Morpog_PC___and I get updates very often13:57
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Morpog_PC___maybe my expectations are that low because I was comimg from N9.........13:59
louisdkMorpog_PC___, Does your Jolla also lasts long when using a lot of Android apps on it? The promised monthly updates. Last update was in July and we're now in October.14:00
Morpog_PC___I am using android apps sure14:00
Morpog_PC___We got 8 updates in 10 months, how much updates we got on N9 or N900? How much updates did google or apple released in that timeframe?14:02
Morpog_PC___I don't get your point14:02
Morpog_PC___A team of 100 people, don't forget that14:02
Morpog_PC___I don't care about a few bugs here or there. I knew when I chose to buy a Jolla that they would exist.14:04
ArtVandalaeI remember 3 updates for the N9. Not to circle jerk, but I've been impressed that Jolla has been releasing almost 1 update/month14:04
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Morpog_PC___I don't get why people have that skyrocket high expectations on Jolla about everything.14:06
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louisdkMorpog_PC___, Is it called skyrocket high exceptions if you expect a company to comply deadlines ad expectations? Sure Jolla have released many updates, but I see them as minor updates and the SDK is still in alpha.14:10
Morpog_PC___Well, should they have released a buggy update just to meet deadline?14:11
Morpog_PC___Or do you prefer not to get any deadline at all, like Nokia did?14:11
Morpog_PC___Alpha, beta just names14:11
Morpog_PC___SDK is pretty stable isn't it?14:12
Morpog_PC___ask coderus, he tried Ubuntu Touch SDK14:12
Morpog_PC___louisdk, I guess you should have bought an Android device.14:13
louisdkMorpog_PC___,  The should't have announce a deadline in the first place that they can't comply with it. There's a reason Jolla can't be found in retail stores in central Europe. 3 Denmark had a deal with Jolla and a website where you could sign up. It has haven been taken down without further information.14:14
plfiorinilouisdk, my phone has never been so stable after all those "minor" updates14:14
Morpog_PC___OK, so you clearly prefer no deadlines at all.14:15
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louisdkMorpog_PC___, Maybe alpha and beta are just names but it still scares many developers. Also the SDK will get updated after an update has come out to the Jolla,  so developers don't get a chance to an app prior to an update.14:16
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louisdk*test an14:17
Morpog_PC___louisdk, I don't see that as big problem yet as harbour rules are pretty tight.14:17
Morpog_PC___I guess they will call it beta when more API's are stable and supported14:17
Morpog_PC___it makes no sense to get paid apps with unstable api's if they break with each OS update14:18
Morpog_PC___They told us many times that tehy are working on this and it will arrive in 2nd half of 201414:18
Morpog_PC___and QT5.2 was clearly a milestone for that14:19
louisdkMorpog_PC___, Seems legit. Just have to wait and see. My main issue is that running Android apps dains the battery rapidly for me, so I hope for more native apps in the future.14:20
Morpog_PC___well, they would too on an Android device, wouldn't they?14:21
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Morpog_PC___I don't let android apps open in background, maybe that helps for me14:22
Morpog_PC___oh also you can use the dalvik stop app from openrepos14:22
Morpog_PC___but launching android apps takes longer if you use that14:22
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louisdkMorpog_PC___, I always close Android apps when they're not needed. And yearh I have the delvik stop app. It was the reason I installed Warehouse, because sometimes Android apps refuses to close :)14:23
Morpog_PC___the only thing which really drained battery for me was the mitakuuluu 100% cpu bug14:24
Morpog_PC___but that got fixed fortunately14:24
louisdkMorpog_PC___, The main Android apps I use are light games and I've tried them on an Xperia Go which lasted in days playing Android games. Is not uncommon for my Jolla to uses !0% battery playing Android games for 10-15 minutes :)14:25
louisdk*10%14:25
Morpog_PC___oh, I'm not much in games on mobile14:27
Morpog_PC___hopefully aliendalvik improves too in future versions14:27
Morpog_PC___from what I hear it's better as on BB10, but I never tried a BB10 device unfortunately14:28
Morpog_PC___my most used android app is Burgerking for the coupons :D14:29
Morpog_PC___and right after that twitter, when I need to follow a discussion14:29
Morpog_PC___tweetian is a bit limited there because of twitters API14:29
louisdkMorpog_PC___, Bruger king app. Lol ;) arrh okay. I'm not much of a Twitter bird :)14:31
Morpog_PC___It's insane to eat there without coupons :D14:32
Morpog_PC___Alot of intersting stuff to read about Jolla and SailfishOS on twitter14:32
Morpog_PC___way more fast than on any news site or TMO14:33
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coderusMitakuuluu v0.8.13 released with fixed android account import and localization updates. Check for updates!14:38
coderusMorpog_PC___: ^^14:38
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Morpog_PC___wow, that was fast14:39
louisdkMorpog_PC___, Guess I have to use Twitter more. I'm just much of a small talker :P14:39
Morpog_PC___coderus, I guess Moritz will be happy now ;)14:39
Morpog_PC___louisdk, you can use twitter as kind of RSS feed14:40
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Morpog_PC___you don't need to tweet anything at all14:40
Morpog_PC___Just follow the right persons which tweet stuff you think is interesting14:40
louisdkDoes anyone knows who manufacture the official Jolla TOHs?14:40
Morpog_PC___I guess the OEM who also does the Jolla device14:41
Morpog_PC___I forgot it's name14:41
louisdkMorpog_PC___, Currently I use Reddit as my "RSS feed" :)14:41
Morpog_PC___see, I never used reddit and i don't even know how that works at all :D14:41
coderusMorpog_PC___: aha, right14:42
louisdkMorpog_PC___, It would be cool if they  opened up for ordering custom coloured TOHs. Don't need fancy ambiances and sounds, just awesome colours :)14:42
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Morpog_PC___louisdk, true14:43
Morpog_PC___I still would love to get that VIP TOH box that some guys in hongkong got14:43
Morpog_PC___cybette, we need colors14:43
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louisdkMorpog_PC___, I guess that they (company behind TOHs) don't make small orders and only bulk orders of TOHs. Asked for VIP box on care. They currently don't have any plans to release outside Hongkong.14:45
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Morpog_PC___dang14:45
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Morpog_PC___I got a cutsom 3d printed one from shapeways, but it looses its colour and isn't the same quality14:46
coderuslouisdk: rainbow colors TOH bulk should be ok14:46
Morpog_PC___it'S blue was cool at the beginning though14:46
mekludamn you and your constant releases, coderus! :D14:47
* kimmoli looks at my VIP box14:47
mekluI just updated to .1214:47
Morpog_PC___lol14:47
Morpog_PC___kimmoli, you tease!14:47
coderusmeklu: you can skip this update14:47
kimmoli.14 in 15 mins?14:48
mekluI'll install it anyway!14:48
coderus(but of course it will be prompted at each start :)14:48
Morpog_PC___It's just android account importer14:48
mekluah, okay14:48
mekluneat14:48
Morpog_PC___also known as MoritzJT update :D14:48
coderusyep, and some locales (cs, de_CH, de_DE, sl_SL) updated14:49
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Morpog_PC___btw louisdk I posted that on twitter a few weeks ago: http://abload.de/img/sailfish-comic_19ypep.png14:49
coderussl_SI*14:50
louisdkcoderus, you mean like this. http://www.abload.de/img/imgp1570n0uwe3duf6.jpg ?14:51
coderus˙ʍoɥ ǝɯ ʞsɐ ¿ǝʇɐpdn ɐuuɐʍ14:51
louisdkMorpog_PC___, He he. Have seen it :)14:51
Morpog_PC___lol coderus, nah I wait14:51
coderuslouisdk: like this, but more bright colours14:51
coderuslike missing yellow, green, red and purple14:52
louisdkMorpog_PC___, iOS and Android gets point updates too ;)14:52
Morpog_PC___but only security fixes in them14:52
louisdkMorpog_PC___, no bug fixes?14:53
coderusSaapunki have NSS and bash hotfix update too, but..14:53
Morpog_PC___louisdk, I don't think so14:54
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louisdkcoderus, yearh a yellow would be nice. Red is available trough ;)14:54
Morpog_PC___that orange, isn't it?14:54
coderusi want #FF0000 color14:55
Morpog_PC___brrr, that's a bit too hard for my eyes....14:56
Morpog_PC___better http://www.colorhexa.com/e6000014:56
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r0kk3rz_wooo the random restarts have started17:35
r0kk3rz_seems like a matter of not if but when17:36
r0kk3rz_we'll see what I can figure out.17:36
kimmolilubricate!17:37
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kimmolii might make small doses of that stuff and send it around the World.  25g is plenty, you guys can then send that forward to each other... (?)17:38
r0kk3rzwould be nice if i was at home with all my gear to measure things17:38
r0kk3rznot in Frankfurt17:39
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r0kk3rzkimmoli: sorry I dropped. what was previous comment?17:40
AL13Nkimmoli: you mean lubricating the contacts?17:40
kimmoliyeah17:40
kimmoliso far so good with lubricated ...17:40
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AL13Nkimmoli: how long ago?17:41
kimmolinot long to say for sure17:41
r0kk3rzI still find that hard to believe that its oxidation on the contacts17:41
AL13Nisn't one of the solutions: "shake shake shake... shake shake shake... shake your boot-y"17:42
kimmolithere is my TJC post17:42
AL13Nr0kk3rz: well, when you clean it, it seems to work again for quite a while17:42
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coderussend lubricant to each other around the world. it's so engineering... ._.17:46
r0kk3rz_here is you brand new jolla17:48
r0kk3rz_comea free with sachet of lubricant17:48
kimmoli:)17:48
r0kk3rz_dont worry, give it 2 months and youll know what its for17:49
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r0kk3rz_i wonder if lemon juice would do in a pinch17:50
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r0kk3rz_mildly acidic, should clean oxidation off enough17:51
r0kk3rz_unless the battery meter is lying to me, and i havent got 40% capacity17:52
AL13Nwell, acidic could actually bite off a bit of the metal too17:53
AL13Neven though the oxidation would be gone17:53
r0kk3rz_yeah but its lemom juice, not anything strong17:53
r0kk3rz_its almost as weakly acidic as acidic gets17:54
r0kk3rz_but to apply it directly via the slice? or use a napkin?17:58
r0kk3rz_bar macgyver fixes are best right17:58
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kimmolihej.18:02
kimmolii did apply stuff without cleaning the contacts... will see.18:03
kimmolithere was whiteish smudge on the contacts.18:04
kimmolitried to take photos, but my camera didn't want to cooperate18:04
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kimmolijolla takes actually good pics through that scope18:05
r0kk3rz_jollas camera is pretty good tbh18:05
kimmolibut as it was wrong side of optics...18:05
kimmoliuntil you get AR coating broken18:06
kimmolimy order of custom lens seems to fail, as they have 1mm material. needs to be ~0.518:07
kimmoliand so far ebay stuff have been too large dia18:07
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r0kk3rz_hmmm. the pins on the phone side are fairly small18:10
r0kk3rz_should be like 3x that size18:11
r0kk3rz_ill have to compare to the HTC i have18:12
r0kk3rz_which has a removable back with no problems for 2-3 years18:13
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kimmoliswipe contacts are better than pogo style imho18:16
r0kk3rz_Yeah i never really took a good look until just now18:18
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r0kk3rz_Looks like grinding the contacts has done it18:49
r0kk3rz_deserves a hardware update tbh18:49
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r0kk3rz_probably expensive for jolla, but minor update. thicker pogo style contacts on phone side18:50
Yanielthe Jolla deserves a hw update for sure18:52
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r0kk3rz_i mean a SKU rather than a full hw refresh18:53
r0kk3rz_is like a bug fix for hardware18:54
YanielI mean in general but you have a point there too18:54
StskeepsSKU -> full certification18:54
Stskeeps:P18:54
r0kk3rz_like i said. expensive18:54
YanielI had a funny clock desync a couple of days ago18:56
Yanielautomatic updating enabled, it suddenly was 30mins ahead18:56
r0kk3rz_only jolla can make the call whether its financially viable or not18:56
Yanieldisabling automatic time updates and re-enabling them set it to the correct time again18:56
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pdanekHello,19:01
StskeepsYaniel: time travel device19:01
Yanielyes19:01
YanielI hope CERN won't kill me for this19:02
pdanekDo you think security maniacs will rather go for Jolla or Neo900?19:02
pdanekOr Android?19:02
pdanekTo tweak their phone and perform some security hardening.19:02
Stskeepsneo900 doesn't factually exist..19:03
r0kk3rz_or just invalidate your ftl neurons paper19:03
pdanekStskeeps: not an answer I was looking for :D19:03
r0kk3rz_plane is a time travel device anyway :p19:03
pdanekLike.... exclude Blackphone and Blackberries... what do you pick? Something open, so you can disable this and this... and install bunch of other stuff.19:06
Stskeepsunless you can build the bootloader yourself, how can you ever truly trust it?19:06
pdanekThere are some recommendations what to do in Android to secure it properly:19:06
pdanekhttps://blog.torproject.org/blog/mission-impossible-hardening-android-security-and-privacy19:06
pdanekStskeeps: well, can you build Sailfish? source code is still not available19:07
pdanekSo I'm wondering how secure Sailfish is19:07
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pdanekin comparison to AOSP19:07
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pdanekMarc recently spoke about security in his video, but still Sailfish seems quite closed to me.19:08
pdanekIn comparison to custom Android ROMs build from AOSP.19:08
Stskeepswell, unlocking bootloader means you can always do a evil maid attack..19:08
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pdanekSo you rather approve the BlackBerry's way?19:09
Stskeepsi like the jolla way, you can unlock and lock at your own desire19:09
pdanekWondering, will we ever have Sailfish source code available?19:10
pdanekTo build derivates?19:10
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Stskeepstime will tell19:11
YanielI don't see that coming until jolla has secured their place in the market19:12
pdanek:/19:13
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M4rtinKpdanek: pencil & piece of paper/paper notebook :)19:29
M4rtinKpdanek: and I'm not kidding19:29
pdanekM4rtinK: I know and of course.19:30
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M4rtinKbasically everything else is too complicated to be really sure19:30
pdanekBut if I ask if apples or oranges, you don't answer bananas :)19:30
M4rtinK(same thing holds for elections BTW)19:30
M4rtinKbut other than that I would say Neo900 if it ever materializes19:31
M4rtinKbecause Qualcomm19:31
pdanekWhy because of Qualcomm? :O19:31
M4rtinKeq. the usual second-always-online-ARM-CPU-with-access-to-all-RAM-and-connected-to-wireless19:32
M4rtinKwhat could possible go wrong ? :)19:32
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M4rtinKnote that even if you had source for all Sailfish OS components, it does not help against a rogue modem :)19:34
Yanieltbh you can't even trust a piece of paper19:34
Yanielhidden messages have been written almost as long as written messages in general19:35
M4rtinKwell, a common piece of paper still has quite low potential for online espionage :)19:36
pdanekI see.19:40
M4rtinKon the other hand, pencil and paper PKI might be a bit tiring :)19:42
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pdanekIs anyone in this Jolla chat going to buy Neo900?20:19
pdanekFor whatever reason.20:19
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kimmolihmm.. if you put that piece of paper below jolla battery, is it online?20:26
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louisdkpdanek1, I have yet to see a functional Neo900. They part with the OS where they'll port Hildron (N900 UI) to this phone running Debian seems like quite a big job.21:00
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louisdkIf I look at Wikipedia the Jolla logo is one place listed as public domain and another place as BY-SA. I'm a bit confused.21:16
tbrit's neither IMO, IANAL21:18
pdanek1louisdk: true21:19
pdanek1It's just I'm a bit hesitant if Sailfish OS direction is where I want it to be.21:20
pdanek1But perhaps it is.21:20
M4rtinKlouisdk: well, it does not exist yet AFAIK :)21:22
M4rtinKand of course might never materialize in the end as hardware is hard21:22
M4rtinKat mleast they have a prior experience with FreeRunner and GTA0421:22
M4rtinKso till better than Spark/Vivaldi/Cordia :)21:22
louisdkpdanek1, If you're unsure find a Jolla owner in your area. I'm sure someone will give you a demo. But yearh the Jolla is still a beta phone in some areas to be honest. What phone do you have now?21:24
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