#jollamobile log for Tuesday, 2014-10-28

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rangoyHmm.. is it just me or does the opt-in update feel a bit more sluggish?06:38
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* tbr didn't notice any sluggishness, actually feels a bit more fluid06:46
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Stskeepsif you hit really nasty low memory it might be06:48
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tadzikhmm, is there a way to save a phone number that sent me a text message somehow?07:21
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specialtadzik: swipe to the contact page, pull down and save07:23
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rangoyeg. clicking on a new mail notification might take several seconds before anything happens07:27
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tbrdepending on the memory load (open apps, aliendalvik,...) that wouldn't be surprising07:30
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rangoytbr: even if i do close all?07:33
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tbrrangoy: yes, as aliendalvik might be still running07:34
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gexcis the discount code for EU only?08:02
gexcmy colleague wants to buy a jolla from HK and use the code, is that possible?08:03
tbrtry it?08:04
AL13N_worki thought i read this was only in countries that it shipped to08:04
tbrah, if HK distribution chain is different, then it won't work08:04
gexcalright08:05
gexclucky that he has a friend in EU :D08:05
AL13N_worki passed the gift voucher to 2 of my friends, but they declined08:05
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gexc:-/08:07
gexcbetter than if they get the phone and hate it08:08
Sail0rhm maybe I can fix the owncloud issue for Jolla with rewrite magic08:12
Sail0rxD08:12
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tadzikspecial: thanks, that works08:25
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AL13N_workwell, they actually would like it, but they said they didn't have the money for that yet, since they just bought a tablet08:32
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Sail0rinteresting if the carddav service gehts a 30108:42
Sail0rit just fails08:42
Sail0r^^08:42
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TMavicaif image is too old in recovery mode to reset, how to solve?08:44
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rangoyWhat happens if I take a factory reset on the latest optin update?08:47
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coderusTMavica: recover manually with btrfs tools, or mount btrfs and copy files08:56
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coderusrangoy: you will get fresh 1.0.0.5 version :)08:56
rangoycoderus: ok. I was just unsure since it sait that i would be unable to roll back to update808:58
rangoyjust considering to do a complete wipe, and get a fresh install :)08:58
tbrrangoy: that means you can't go directly back U9→U8. U9→U0→…→U8 should of course work.09:02
tbrwhich really is standard procedure on all updates09:02
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pp_if you've sent your phone in for repairs you might get something newer too!09:05
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TMavicacoderus: how recover manually with btrfs tools..?09:13
tigelitbr: going from 1.0.0.5 is not supported but 1.0.0.5->1.0.2.5->.. is09:13
rangoyis any difference on a factory upgrade and OTA (other than as a baseline for a wipe)?09:13
tigelitbr: directly going from 1.0.0.5 to u8.. ;)09:13
tbrtigeli: obviously, that's why the elipsis09:14
tigeli:)09:15
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coderusrangoy: its not possible directly downgrade to update8.09:26
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rangoycoderus: ok.. i have always belived that downgrading ment reset and apply backup09:28
coderusrangoy: in flashing terms - probably yes (but not always)09:34
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coderusrangoy: in distro terms it means - hey, $osname, install me $number version!09:34
coderusTMavica: what is your problem exactly? how you bricked system?09:35
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TMavicamy fd, not me09:37
coderusTMavica: so?09:37
TMavicahis jolla blank when boot after update , then i tell him go recovery mode to reset, but he tell me the image is too old09:38
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TMavicaseem the image too old is a bugs is 1.0.8.19 ?09:38
TMavicacoderus: tell me how solve, i will really thanks you, LOL09:39
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coderusTMavica: what version update from - to ?10:03
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TMavicacoderus: later talk. i need go work, ask you later, cu10:31
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pdanekAhoy! So how do you like the new Lollipop?10:38
pdanekIs it solid evolution?10:39
tbris that the next lake name for U10?10:40
pdanekAndroid 5.010:40
pdanek:D10:40
tbrshould ask in #android then10:40
pdanekNah10:40
pdanekI'm interested in opinion of Sailfish guys, who happened to test it already.10:41
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r0kk3rzhavent really paid attention tbh10:42
r0kk3rzconsidering buying a nexus 9 though, with keyboard10:43
pdanekI see.10:44
r0kk3rzbut not sure if sailfish is going to work on a 64bit tegra k110:44
Stskeepswhy wouldn't it..10:44
Stskeeps:P10:44
pdanekSooner or later, ARMv9 is a must for Sailfish10:44
r0kk3rzsooner or later sure10:44
r0kk3rzbut in the next few months?10:44
r0kk3rzStskeeps: im expecting a bit of work to port it, but the current HADK says arm 710:45
StskeepsNOD10:45
Stskeepsnod10:45
Stskeepstrue10:45
tbrwell it will require either running in compat mode or a rebuild against armv8 by jolla10:47
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r0kk3rzyeah its probably a bit out of my depth atm10:52
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pp_android sorts out the low-level stuff, most of userspace is fine since ages, libhybris etc. may need some work, I'd guess?10:57
chem|stwhat is the next major mobilephone/device event?10:57
StskeepsMWC?10:58
Stskeepsor is CES sooner?10:58
chem|stces is in january iirc10:59
chem|stwell on ces you announce what is coming before the summer break and on MWC what after... is there nothing before xmas?11:01
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StskeepsMWC is what operators run rest of year11:03
pp_there's always slush :P11:03
Tazywhen i forcefully logout nemo and mount an SD card partion over /home i get a faulty display with welcome offset. i tried copying the files over from old to new /home11:06
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Sail0rcarddav works now for me with owncloud ^^ https://together.jolla.com/question/60493/new-carddavcaldav-support-got-to-it-working-with-owncloud/#post-id-6107111:13
Navexcellent!11:14
r0kk3rzhttp://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/10/27/2348204/firefox-os-coming-to-raspberry-pi11:24
r0kk3rzinteresting11:24
ggabrieli cna finally use my 3rd raspi for something11:25
r0kk3rzmaybe they're aiming to do what canonical wants to do with ubuntu11:25
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r0kk3rzone os to rule them all11:25
ggabrieli'm curious about what "easy robotics dev" exactly means11:26
ggabrielwill the raspi turn into a transformer?11:26
r0kk3rzhah11:26
r0kk3rzyeah not sure why you would want to build another ROS11:27
r0kk3rzof which there are already raspi builds for11:27
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r0kk3rzand lego has had the 'easy' part of the market sorted with mindstorms for years11:28
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coderusanyone succeded to start any android bbm version on jolla?12:37
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pdanekcoderus: I gave up trying, since none of my friends uses bbm anyway.13:15
pdanekbut yea, it doesn't work13:15
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ggabrieluhm... the tohkbd2 countdown is about 7', there's no way that i'll do any work in the very short time13:52
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tadzik7 minutes?13:53
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ggabrielunder 4 now13:55
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ggabrieli don't know... big news apparently13:55
Nicd-what is 7'?13:55
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ggabriel' = minutes13:55
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Nicd-could've been feet13:55
ggabrielfeet? :)13:56
ggabrielwhat's that?13:56
ggabrielwhat you use for walking? :P13:56
Nicd-it's a silly measurement used in some 3rd world countries ;)13:56
tadzikheheheh13:56
pdanekWalking? What's that?13:56
pdanekI sail and swim only.13:56
fennekkiNicd-: afaik no third world country uses feet tho13:57
ggabrielpdanek: are you... a dolphin?!13:57
joonahoiyou got feet in the boat too13:57
tadzikjolla will officially make tohkbd!13:57
Nicd-tadzik: ?13:57
tadzikand you can sell your soul^Wcoupon for one13:57
pdanektadzik: WHATTHAT!?!?!13:57
tadzikNicd-: silly guessing, nevermind :)13:57
Nicd-stop that13:57
Shinryuulol13:57
Navha ha ha13:57
Nicd-fennekki: but it's not funny then13:58
* Nav waits 2 minutes13:58
fennekkiNicd-: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World13:58
Shinryuuit seems I came back just in time...13:58
tadzikmercury, venus, earth. We are the 3rd world, or did I forget something?13:58
Nicd-fennekki: I know that13:59
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pdanekI'm from the 4th world actually.13:59
pdanekUnder the ocean.13:59
fennekkianother world entirely13:59
pdanekThey all use Jollas, you know?14:00
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Navok, 2 minutes is up....14:00
ggabrieldisappointeing14:00
ggabriel(spelling)14:00
tadzikso, where was that announcement supposed to be?14:01
tadzikand by whom? :)14:01
ggabrielmaybe tmo14:01
pdanekTOHKBD?14:01
Navexactly14:01
okuno tohkbd yet :(14:01
pdanekkeep the hype alive14:04
Shinryuulollipop14:04
Armadillo*hype*14:04
pdanekhttp://youtu.be/9-DuC0tE7V414:04
pdanekShinryuu: Why it seems you just came back in time?14:05
Shinryuujust joking because of the timer14:07
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Armadillohttps://twitter.com/dirkvanleersum/status/52709982067964723314:10
Navahaa!14:10
Navnice14:10
tadzikwoot14:10
tadzikno camera hole 9.5/10 :P14:11
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pdanekaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa14:14
pdanekDirk posted it14:14
pdanekso it's real14:14
pdanekI'm in!14:14
pdanekI had the rev114:14
pdanekbut it wasn't usable14:14
pdanekbut now!14:14
Armadillo^^14:14
pdanekshut up and take my money14:14
pdanek:)14:14
pdanekgood keyboard is the only thing why I'm still considering buying BlackBerry14:15
pdanekoh god14:17
pdanekI won't sleep for next half a year14:17
pdanekdon't do this to me14:17
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ggabrielpdanek: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YNPjS2F3Jg14:17
pdanekThat's exact.14:18
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pdanekThe Communicator is back!14:20
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pdanekThere are quite some people who stick to their N900 still, due to lack of keyboard.14:25
pdanekYou can see those on TMO.14:26
pdanekPatriots.14:26
* Aard still sometimes uses it, but lack of swiping is quite annoying nowadays14:26
Aardalso it just has too little ram14:26
tadzikit did not age well14:26
r0kk3rznone of the early smartphones did14:27
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pdanekAard: now imagine keyboard with Jolla, you could Emacs all day!14:27
tadzikirc!14:27
Aardpdanek: the n900-keyboard sucks for emacs14:27
ballockAard: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nokia-N950-rare-developer-device-for-Nokia-N9-/231366401763?pt=Cell_Phones&hash=item35de831ee314:27
tadzikwhere's that weechat relay client someone was developing14:27
AardI have a nice bluetooth-keyboard with ctrl, esc and alt-keys14:27
Aardballock: the keyboard of the n950 sucks14:28
pdanekAard: yes, but dirk's version seems more versatile14:28
pdanekhttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1CifibCEAMg2q6.jpg:large14:28
chem|stAard: but there is software in extras repo that searches worthy replacements in the apple/android/sailfish worlds for quiet some time now14:28
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tadzikI wonder if one could drill a hole in that arrow keys to take pictures without taking the TOH off :P14:29
pdanektadzik: the keyboard will stick with magnets14:30
pdanekso for camera, you just take it out easily14:30
tadzikyeah, that's not that bad14:30
pdanekit's all being described on TMO14:30
pdanekso that's thing is pretty real14:30
pdanekprice could be somewhere around 120 EUR14:30
chem|stone of the many toh design flaws...14:30
pdanektohv2 design is actually getting finalized14:31
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tadzikfrankly, I think I'd rather have a T9 keyoard for Sailfish than a keyboard TOH :)14:31
tadzikI learned to live without it14:31
chem|stAard: sandwich the next phone with a kbd please14:31
pdanektadzik: T9?14:32
pdanekReally?14:32
tadzikyep, really14:32
pdaneko.O14:32
tadzikthis is the best typing method I've ever seen on a phone, aside from the physical keyboard of course14:32
tadzikso the best one handed typing method14:32
pdanekI usually type 2 handed.14:32
r0kk3rzT9 for when you really absolutely must party like its 199914:32
pdanek90% of the time.14:32
tadzikI typed faster in 1999 than I do now on this silly qwerty keyboards14:33
tadziksuch qwerty, so modern, damn you autocorset14:33
pdanekI don't like to rely on text prediction.14:33
chem|sttadzik: +114:33
pdanekI want to type what I want and how I want it... not a software to align it for me14:33
pdanektext predictions kill slangs14:33
pdanekand make us robots14:33
pdanek:D14:34
pdanekMake us Androids.14:34
pdanekI had to say it.14:34
tadzikif I didn't want machines to do stuff for me I'd be shouting into a plastic cup connected with a string to another plastic cup14:34
pdanek:D14:34
chem|stpdanek: my sony text prediction knows slang, you just need to teach it first...14:34
pdanekhm14:35
tadzikis the sailfish keyboard widget replacable?14:35
r0kk3rzpdanek: shouldnt you be corresponding with us via written letter then?14:35
chem|stI had like a 5% fail rate with my sony on T9 even when using shortened words, amazingly alot was pre set by them not by me14:36
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Sail0rdoes anyone know how the sync intervals are managed?14:36
tadzik"alot" was there? :D14:36
tadzikj/k14:36
Sail0rI don't see them in ag-tool list-settings14:36
pdanekmy batterry is dying14:36
chem|stit was that good that I never remembered the failsafe button combination in the time I had the phone14:36
pdanekI'm gonna continue by fire signals14:36
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pdanekcheers14:37
pdaneksmoke signals I meant14:37
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chem|stpdanek: good idea, I get a coffee on my out^^14:37
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Armadilloare there any non gif pictures of the tohkbc rev2 layouts?15:23
Armadillotohkbd15:23
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pdanek1Armadillo: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxMADzpIgAA59rv.jpg:large15:26
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pdanekArmadillo: how do you like the layout?15:41
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Tazyhow do i escape the new tutorial? i reset my device.15:55
fluxis the layout final?15:56
wazdAm I going crazy or it's the question for me? :D15:58
wazdHi all15:59
fluxwazd, well, it was for anyone with inner knowledge about tohkbdr2 ;)15:59
wazdYes, it's final15:59
fluxwell, at least that's promising from the schedule point of view ;-)16:00
tigeliTazy: you can't if you have pressed "start"16:01
Tazytigeli, i survived the 5 minutes of rage. :)16:01
tigeliTazy: anyway, touching each for corners before pressing start will exit the tutorial16:02
tigelis/for/four/16:02
Tazytigeli, thank you tough, i'll remember that :316:10
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Sail0rnice https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2028347278/1944172417?token=02e2365d17:08
Sail0rreally like it17:08
Sail0ri think I go for the 140$17:09
Sail0rEuro sry17:09
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friesehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG2RnA3J5JM now i get the whole magnet thing for tohkbd - thought the entire time why the hell it needs magnets...17:28
ggabrielit's quite nice acdtually17:29
ggabrieli may contribute17:29
ggabrielfor the fun of it17:29
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frieseyeah, no problems with loose hinges etc, plus i could actually leave the keyboard in my pocket if i dont need it :)17:29
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friesei'd really like to contribute - only problem is i don't have a credit card - i hope dirk makes them available on his shop or somewhere else also...17:30
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r0kk3rz friese no visa debit card?17:33
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frieseuhm, i have a "v-pay"-logo on my normal debit card, but i think that's sth. else17:34
r0kk3rznah thats probably an nfc chip or something17:36
r0kk3rzive had a visa debit card for years, all the benefits of a credit card without any of the debt17:36
frieseyeah, but (at least in germany) i haven't found one thats free yet - i very seldomly need one...17:37
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wazddebit cards should work just fine with KS17:37
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Sail0rfriese: gebuhrenfrei.de17:40
Sail0ror the one from comdirect.de17:41
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wazdSince KS is "all or nothing" we won't be able to take pre-orders manually unless we will be able to reach our goal17:41
wazdTo order all the parts17:42
friesehumm okay, so i think the comdirect one should work, it's free & i even get 100€ :)17:43
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r0kk3rzwazd: even if kickstarter fails I dont think that will be the end of it18:05
wazdCertanly18:05
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pdanek1It can't fail18:08
pdanek1I will buy it 2x if it's necessary18:08
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pdanekMaybe Jolla can support somehow?18:08
pdanekLike, advertise it a bit on Slush.18:09
pdanekIn their keynote or something.18:09
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pdanekIt's enough if Jolla itself will order it for every of their employees.18:09
pdanek:D18:10
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pdanekAs a Christmas gift.18:10
r0kk3rzim sure they will support however they can18:10
pdanekAre the magnets strong enough?18:11
pdanekhttp://youtu.be/kG2RnA3J5JM18:11
SK_work55k is a lot18:11
SK_workeven if there is 10k Jolla sold18:11
pdanekBtw, having a solid keyboard-half will make Jolla a decent QWERTY smartphone on the market.18:11
SK_workand that half everybody buys one18:11
SK_workit is a problem18:11
pdanekSo it can actually give Jolla competitive advantage.18:12
pdanekIn total numbers, QWERTY market is niche, but still large for company like Jolla.18:12
wazdSK_work: we need to sell about 500 keyboards18:13
pdanekYes.18:13
pdanekNot so bad.18:13
wazdSK_work: if we won't be able to sell 500 of THESE I will banish myself from design :D18:13
SK_work500 kbd only ?18:13
cryoratwazd, indiegogo or crowdsupply?18:13
SK_work500 * 100 = 50 00018:13
SK_workindeed18:13
SK_workI'm so bad18:14
wazdSK_work: you even made me question myself for a millisecond :D18:14
pdanekTOHKBDv1 was like buying pre-alpha prototype with no assurance it will be solid for expensive price18:14
pdanekyet quite a lot of people bought it18:14
pdanekon TMO18:14
SK_workwazd: btw, is this a final version or something ?18:14
SK_workI will buy 118:14
SK_workfor sure18:14
pdanekThis is supposed to be solid, end-user version18:15
wazdSK_work: yes it is18:15
SK_workI will buy one, with azerty18:15
SK_workif you do this18:15
wazdSK_work: we will18:15
SK_workif not, shame on you ;)18:15
r0kk3rzill buy one if its injection molded :P18:15
wazdSK_work: I even figured out technology process for you to have it :D18:15
SK_workwazd: really ?18:15
SK_work<318:15
wazdSK_work: yes, it was quite a challenge to make layouts for all of you and stay within sane price18:16
wazdr0kk3rz: you mean body or keys?18:16
SK_workwazd: <318:16
SK_workthanks18:16
r0kk3rzbody at least18:16
pdanekThe only thing I don't like on it, is the wood.18:17
r0kk3rz3d printed keys could be good for repairs18:17
wazdr0kk3rz: well, bad news for you :D Keys are injection molded and pro-grade18:17
pdanekWood is not a modern material that should take a place in smartphone.18:17
pdanekIt's just design thing.18:17
SK_workwazd: pro-grade ?18:17
SK_workhow the keys feels ?18:17
wazdr0kk3rz: body would most certanly be 3D printed18:17
SK_workreal keys or lame n950 style ?18:17
wazdSK_work: E90 style18:17
SK_workor super awesome E63 style ?18:17
SK_workdon't know the E9018:17
SK_workE63 is the best I have seen on a mobile18:17
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wazdSK_work: E63 but much larger18:18
SK_workwazd: <3, 3rd heart I give you tonight :)18:18
wazdSK_work: curvature would probably be the same, I have one :)18:18
SK_workmuch larger is a plus, especially for term18:18
SK_worknow ... I just need a better term18:18
wazdr0kk3rz: about injection molding, it's expensive in quantities of about thousand18:19
wazdr0kk3rz: good mold costs a fortune18:20
r0kk3rzyeah18:20
r0kk3rzbut good molds last18:20
wazdr0kk3rz: so for now we will stay with really good 3D printed ones18:20
wazdr0kk3rz: yes, I agree. And that's why they are good for large batches18:20
r0kk3rzwell i would hope you guys continue to offer the keyboards for sale18:21
r0kk3rznot just a once off run18:21
wazdAbsolutely, if there would be a demand to satisfy :)18:21
r0kk3rzgrowing demand hopefully, slowly18:22
wazdWe have big plans to reincarnate QWERTY market18:22
wazdCause right now it's really pathetic, lets be honest18:23
pdanekI wish I will have a chance to get it without wooden wifinish.18:23
r0kk3rzdoesnt really matter at the moment anyway, will see how many millions you guys make18:23
r0kk3rzgood luck18:23
pdanekwazd: it is, the only QWERTY supported on the market left is BlackBerry18:23
pdanekwazd: that custom color version, what does it mean? color of plastic?18:23
pdanekLike it could be completely black instead of white?18:24
r0kk3rzwonder how the passport is selling18:24
pdanekr0kk3rz: it seels very well18:24
pdaneksells*18:24
pdanekgetting used to it takes time, but after few weeks, reviewers say it's amazing18:24
r0kk3rzwell thats good news for the canucks then18:24
wazdpdanek: well, about wood. Actually it was the option with the best cost/looks/wearproof18:25
locusftheres #jollatohkbd channel as well18:25
cryoratwazd, will you release the blueprints for DIY projects? (I want a Colemak layout :] )18:25
r0kk3rzsick of hearing about it locusf?18:26
wazdcryorat: yes, but I encourage you to "buy" it for E30 on the kickstarter page :P18:26
wazdcryorat: just for the sake of support :)18:26
wazdpdanek: color options = custom 3D printing plastic colors18:27
wazdKeypad itself stays black all the time18:27
locusfr0kk3rz: nah, just wanted to point out :)18:28
wazdAbout layouts: we will release all the vector files for DIY laser etching18:28
wazdFor rare layouts18:28
cryoratwazd, I'll buy it. :) buttons/keycaps will be changeable?18:29
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wazdcryorat: nope18:29
wazdcryorat: you would be able to replace keypad as a whole18:30
wazdcryorat: but it will last18:30
wazdcryorat: it's just the same regular keypad as you would have on some QWERTY phone, just better :D18:30
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cryoratwazd, its not about replacement. I didn't even had in my mind that the keypad wont be durable. its about my colemak love :) nothing else18:39
wazdcryorat: we're considering "stealth" version18:40
wazdcryorat: to enable likes of you to tinker with every symbol :)18:40
cryoratis there a 'buy a dozen' option? :P18:41
wazdcryorat: be my guest :D18:41
lokimotiveare you talking about the tohkbd?18:42
wazdlokimotive: yes18:42
lokimotiveoh i'll so have to get one of those18:43
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wazdgood to hear :)18:46
lokimotivei'm not really sure about the kickstarter thing though, they only take credit cards right?18:47
wazdWell, and debit cards :)18:47
cryoratlokimotive, all types of money :) greedy bastards :D18:48
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lokimotivehm i guess i could just borrow one from some random guy on the street or something18:50
just4info_quick question: can sailfish run wireshark?18:50
kimmolijust4info_: yes18:52
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kimmolii'm using the tshark cli, and if need details use desktop version to open .cap18:52
just4info_kimmoli, neat, can't wait to get the phone, all the possibilitys! =)18:53
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Sail0rnow my Jolla is nearly perfect for my needs19:51
Sail0ras soon as pebbled is fixed and tohkbd is out everything is nice19:51
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louisdkI really hope that Jolla will optimize SailfishOS for landscape mode in launcher and basic apps, to get the most out of tohkbd.19:53
Sail0ryep, I hope that too19:53
Sail0rIn the launcher I don't think it is really necessary but in the apps it's essential19:53
Sail0rand that we can hide the softkbd19:53
Sail0rmy good old n900 is really worn down :x19:55
louisdkWell. It seems like many Jolla devs are excited about tohkbd, so there might be a chance that they'll optimize some apps for landscape.19:55
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Sail0rthat would be awesome19:56
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louisdkFrom what I know devs like cybette seem to be a qwerty fan, so there's hope :)19:59
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lokimotivenow i'm excited xD20:02
Sail0r:P20:02
r0kk3rzyeah ok big kev (thats a reference im not sure made it out of australia)20:02
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pawky|2before super reseting my boot looping phone i succeeded to rsync the home partition to another place. I am now wondering if i could retrieve the mail account settings somewhere?22:01
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nbghi. has anyone in here been using Memotoo CalDAV for a while without any problems? I'm looking for a way to sync my calendar without google, but I had problems with fruux and another CalDAV provider, so I'm looking for alternatives.22:08
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fennekkims exchange accounts work... kinda, and you need office 365 or something23:42
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