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RaYmAnIs there a hard requirement for android 4.2 for porting sailfish? The manual only seems to mention 4.2 - I'm looking into porting to a device where the earliest available is 4.4.07:52
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RaYmAnhm, probably better suited for #sailfishos, nevermind.07:53
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xkr47good morning08:10
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stephggood morning xkr4708:25
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xkr47today I got a sim cutter and converted my mini sim to micro format, and now I can browse the web via mobile network08:35
xkr47but application installation in "jolla store" still fails08:35
ArmadilloI'm cutting my SIMs manually only with a sharp knife08:36
Armadilloworks very well :)08:36
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xkr47:)08:36
xkr47woo enabling developer mode works now!08:36
Armadillomaybe the store currently has an issue08:36
xkr47soon I'll be able to check logs maybe! to see what failed/fails08:37
Armadillothis happens sometimes08:37
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xkr47other people were able to install yesterday when I wasn't08:37
Armadilloalso got this error yesterday night08:37
xkr47bah it failed with "failed to install jolla-developer-mode"08:37
Armadilloyes this needs access to the store08:38
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xkr47what can I do.. :)08:42
warfarexkr47: Tried a factory reset without jolla account, connect to wifi, add jolla account and then start upgrade?08:44
Armadillotry to delete jolla account and readd it08:45
xkr47warfare, that worked for you?08:45
warfarexkr47: Yes.08:46
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Armadillofactory should only be the last step if nothing else works ;)08:47
Armadillo+reset08:47
warfarexkr47: https://together.jolla.com/question/62918/updating-a-brand-new-phone-from-10420/08:48
xkr47is that your "question" ?08:48
warfareNo, the answer ;)08:48
xkr47ralooyar?08:48
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xkr47will try08:50
xkr47I guess I will lose photos etc, so better send them somewhere first08:51
Armadillodid anyone with this problem already try to only delete the Jolla account and add it again08:52
Armadillo?08:52
warfareArmadillo: yes. Didn't work. Even with reboots in between.08:52
Armadillogood to know08:52
xkr47I can try that08:53
xkr47hmm if I factory reset the phone, will it lose all the logs of the failures to install apps from the store?08:53
Nicd-most logs are cleared on reboot anyway08:53
xkr47it would be nice to have the telemetry so the problem could investigated08:54
xkr47pkcon log ?08:54
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xkr47WOHOO factory resetting did the trick!10:24
Armadillo:)10:24
Armadillocongratz10:24
chem|stxkr47: you need to make logs persistent by hand, if you want them after a factoryreset you better use your sdcard for logs10:26
xkr47now I have installed "Clock" successfully10:27
xkr47I guess the regular backup tool does not copy such files10:27
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chem|stxkr47: the backuptool doesn't backup...10:28
chem|stthe backuptool saves exactly what you check nothing more10:29
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chem|stthere is yet to come someone to boost it (thevault) to become a real backup10:30
deztructorchem|st: do you understand backup as file system dump?10:32
xkr47and now also developer mode enabled, succeeesssss!!10:33
xkr47thank you all!10:33
xkr47thank you warfare10:33
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Armadillodeztructor well a backup is a data copy which is stored on another storage unit10:34
deztructormany apps are changing the format of stored data and perform upgrade of the dabatase only during application upgrade itself, so blindly dumping binary data results in issues. I met with this hell on n900 where backup is the binary dump: conversation database was broken and restoring from it results in broken data coming back :p No way to repair...10:35
xkr47is this the main source for sailfishos apps etc? https://github.com/sailfishos10:35
chem|stdeztructor: nope, at least not on a phone - and I did not mean to offend you!10:35
Armadillowith the backup tool you can create data copies, but it can not copy them to an external storage, as I understood this10:36
chem|stArmadillo: backup has integrated save to sdcard10:36
deztructorArmadillo, chem|st: there is a task in queue to backup directly to sd card if the card exists10:37
Armadillonow I'm confused :D10:37
Nicd-xkr47: what do you mean?10:37
deztructorit is quite easy to implement on the middleware level but UI changes are more tricky (to ask user for each different card, to allow to move backup storage from internal memory etc.)10:38
Nicd-xkr47: that repo has the sailfish os specific open source stuff made by jolla afaik10:38
Armadillodeztructor sure10:38
chem|stdeztructor: what people complain about the most are that settings and installed apps (in terms of what had I installed) are not in the backup10:38
xkr47Nicd-, ok.. how about apps like "settings", "jolla store" etc ?10:38
xkr47Nicd-, are any of those open?10:38
Nicd-xkr47: most of them are not open source. as you can see the browser is there as it is open source10:38
xkr47Nicd- so all open components are in that github organization?10:39
deztructorchem|st: this is about security: the most interesting part to store are wlan passwords and there should be a way to encrypt this data and on the other hand to make it simple for user10:39
xkr47I just felt like contributing.. :)10:39
chem|stdeztructor: agreed10:39
Nicd-xkr47: don't know if it's all but looks like it's most of the sailfish specific stuff. nemo stuff is in nemomobile repos10:39
deztructorwhile advanced users can remember passwords :) most users will use bad passwords or forget 'em :)10:40
Armadillosimple and secure is always a problem10:40
Armadillojust look at Whatsapp :x10:40
chem|stdeztructor: default passwords on the back of their router...10:40
chem|stxkr47: thevault is not in that repo deztructor can point you to it10:41
xkr47Nicd- does the jolla phone come with preinstalled nemo apps ?10:41
deztructorso, password should be generated from several pieces, e.g. lock code, jolla password, pin code (so, user can decrypt it also w/o jolla phone)10:41
xkr47chem|st, what's in thevault?10:41
Nicd-xkr47: no, it uses some nemo middleware10:41
chem|stxkr47: that is the backup app of sailfishos10:41
deztructorxkr47: ui nemo apps: fingerterm is nemo app10:42
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xkr47ok10:59
xkr47interesting, some settings are slightly different after factory reset10:59
xkr47default shortcuts are gone10:59
xkr47and "enable swipe closing" changed to off10:59
chem|stxkr47: there are no default shortcuts^^10:59
Teemuthere is no cabal11:00
Wntxkr47: "Swipe to close gesture available as a setting and disabled by default for new users" https://together.jolla.com/question/38508/release-notes-software-version-10516-paarlampi/11:01
xkr47chem|st there were three when I got the phone.. :O :)11:02
AL13N_workxkr47: i had noticed that too11:02
xkr47well anyway :)11:02
xkr47happy camper I am11:02
Wntthe first release had fixed items in the lock screen pulley menu11:02
xkr47aha11:02
Wntafter upgrading to later releases the fixed items were removed and now they are instead customizable via settings11:03
Wnt1.0.7.16, Saapunki was the first one to feature the customizable shortcuts: https://together.jolla.com/question/45064/release-notes-software-version-10716-saapunki/11:04
Teemu1.0.8.21 is how new?11:06
tadziknot :)11:06
Nicd-I think disabling the close gesture by default was a really stupid decision11:08
Teemuso i'd have to enable dev mode to get a new one11:09
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xkr47is the proper way to power off to press the power button, wait 5 seconds until the phone gives a buzz, fades to the "jolla" logo and shuts down ?11:14
Nicd-yes11:15
xkr47I think before the 1.0.4 -> 1.0.8 upgrade the wait was just 2 seconds or so11:15
WntStskeeps: are you Jolla guys aware that the Maps doesn't get automatically updated to the version that features the new map overlays? "satellite, car (daylight mode), transit (public transport) and night mode"11:16
StskeepsAard: ^11:16
Nicd-maps is the only jolla app which I have updated through the app store11:17
AardWnt: you should get offered it through the store, though11:17
Wntthere are few comments in the store about users having to uninstall & reinstall the maps application to get the newest version11:17
WntAard: I'm running uitukka and for store shows "Version 1.0.3 Installed 1.0.13"11:18
Wntand no upgrades available in the store11:18
Aardxfade_: ^^11:19
Nicd-maybe 1.0.3 is the pre-uitukka version?11:19
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xkr47Nicd-, how do you update the other apps?11:19
Nicd-xkr47: what other apps?11:19
Nicd-I have "Version 1.0.3 Installed 1.0.22.3"11:20
Nicd-for maps11:20
Wntxkr47: if there are updates available you get a system notification11:20
Wntselecting that notification forwards the user to the store applications intalled applications page11:20
Wntthat lists available upgrades at the top of the app list11:21
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xkr47ok!11:22
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WntAard: here is the output of pkcon search name sailfish-maps http://paste.kde.org/pg2alta1511:28
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Wntis there a --dry-run or --pretend option for pkcon?11:33
Wntif I would only like to know which pakages a install or upgrade operation would install and upgrade11:34
Nicd-apparently not. but you could install zypper11:35
Nicd-it probably has something like that11:35
Wntor does pkcon always prompt the user with "The following packages have to be installed:" "Proceed with changes? [N/y]"11:37
Wntor only when it's pulling some additional dependencies11:38
Wntseems tat it's only doing the "Proceed?" prompt when the operation pulls in depencies11:39
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Wntinterasting, zypper does list the sailfish-maps update: http://paste.kde.org/ps2kmxcj5#line-1011:42
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Wntbut in Store -> My apps the "Update all" is inactive and there are no updateable applications listed11:44
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warfaremh, is there any way to renew a dhcp lease on sailfish?12:00
phaeronWnt: what is the update version you are on ?12:08
xkr47?? the phone connected to the internet by itself and now suddenly gave a popup offering some ambience12:12
PeperJohnnyxkr47: normal behaviour if you put on a toh from jolla. At least the second part12:13
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xkr47aah :D12:17
xkr47I had the back cover off when I turned it on12:18
Sail0rI wonder how Jolla would survive does tests http://h30499.www3.hp.com/t5/HP-Security-Research-Blog/Mobile-Pwn2Own-2014-The-day-one-recap/ba-p/666959212:20
Stskeepsi'd love them to try.12:21
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Wntphaeron: SailfishOS 1.1.0.39 (Uitukka)12:28
phaeronWnt: can you pastebin output of ssu lr please ?12:28
Wntsure, http://paste.kde.org/pxdzplgms12:29
phaeronnothing seems wrong there12:32
AL13N_workStskeeps: would be nice, indeed12:32
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WntI tried to get the console output of store-client to see if it would spit out something useful, but it seems to be pretty hard to launch it so that it doesn't invalidate the Jolla user account that is defined in settings12:34
phaeronWnt: anything it spits out would be in the journal12:35
Wntphaeron: so it would be in the output of "journalctl -f -a"?12:35
phaeronyes, usually -b also if you have persistent journal12:36
Wnt"journalctl -f -a" didn't have anything interesting12:36
Wntthen I got bored and upgraded the maps application using zypper12:36
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Wntwhat does the http://jolla.com/the-other-half-specification-community-license mean when it comes to sharing a modified version of the TOH 3D model? Can I for example share it on GitHub using this license? http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/13:17
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WntI modified the JOLLA_THE_OTHER_HALF_101213.stl to be more easily 3D printed and would like to share the modified model13:19
Wntthe modified version has a flat, thinner backside and thicker edges among other changes13:22
Wntso my Jolla is now 0.45mm thinner than with the original other half :)13:23
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tadziknice :)14:38
arhi. is it possible to make a backup on one jolla and restore it on another?14:38
SK_workar: it should work if nothing conflicts14:39
arthe backup is saved on sd card? how do i proceed after creating a backup?14:40
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aroh, nvm, found it14:47
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chem|star: it is a limited backup, make sure you have everything from /home you need14:52
aryeah, but it backups most of the stuff that is annoying to backup14:53
ari can copy music and ssh keys myself14:53
chem|stand dot files^^14:54
chem|stI rsynced everything, but when I got it back from care I had a hard time to apply it again14:54
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arhm15:05
army new jolla doesn't show that there are any updates available. it shipped with 1.0.4.20 and i have 10.0.8.21 on my old one15:06
Stskeepsfactory reset and try again?15:06
Stskeepssome people have had issues with 0.4.20 for whatever reason15:06
Stskeepsi guess we're starting to see people who have 1.0.4.* factory devices15:07
aryeah, it was manufactured in march 201415:08
Stskeepsalso, make sure to log in with jolla account15:08
Stskeepsat startup15:08
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ari need to login before i check for updates?15:08
Stskeepsyes15:08
Stskeepsit may get in a bit of a bad state15:08
Stskeepsotherwise15:08
Morpog_PCOMG OMG OMG15:09
Morpog_PChttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2aSECcCUAA4zIQ.jpg15:10
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Morpog_PC:)15:10
ggabrielhahaha15:10
ggabrieland what would that be?15:10
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SK_workMorpog_PC: jolla.com :)15:10
SK_workggabriel: big = tablet for me15:11
SK_workbut people on #jollatohkbd think it is Jolla 2 phone15:11
ln-a jolla running windows phone 715:11
VDVsxwp10 cmon :P15:11
arJolla running WindowsMobile 6.515:11
gexclooks a bit dull if it would be jolla2 :-/15:11
Sceltar: https://together.jolla.com/question/62918/updating-a-brand-new-phone-from-10420/15:12
Morpog_PC5" Jolla?15:12
aror maybe a thinner jolla with no support for otherhalves and updated hardware (octacore exynos?)15:12
ln-ar: would that qualify as "BIG"?15:13
armaybe15:14
gexc cheap and BIG lol15:14
gexclow end model?15:14
* Morpog_PC imagines his Jolla1 with TOHKBD to hack at home and sleek Jolla 2 outside :D15:14
aralso, a new device would be quite ironic, for me at least, as i just got a replacement for my old jolla on which i have a shattered screen15:15
SK_workar: no exynos (samsung stuff)15:15
SK_workI hope: more powerful cores, more ram (3 Gig to be sure, this time), and better screen with LPM please15:16
gexc'true octacore' mtk :-/15:16
SK_worknothing else15:16
SK_workhope same size15:16
SK_workcompatibility with current TOH is a plus15:16
gexcand curved. glass.15:16
* gexc is missing his N915:17
Morpog_PCgive me ram Joanna, RAM Joanna15:17
SK_workgexc: N9 is not really curved15:17
gexcwhatever that's called lol15:18
arSK_work: "LPM"?15:18
gexcjust for easy side swipe15:18
SK_workar: LPM15:19
SK_workLow power mode15:19
SK_workN9's "always on screen"15:19
ari don't really remember that. i never had an N915:19
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ardoes it make it black&white and without backlight, but good reflectivity?15:19
pdanekLive Partition Mobility15:20
gexcoled screen with only a few pixels powered15:20
arhehe15:20
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Morpog_PColed doesn't have a backlight15:22
eyea_UKJolla )0!1@ yoh15:22
Morpog_PCand doesn't need one15:22
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Morpog_PCI guess it'S a tablet, jaakko roppola's UI blog had a few hints about how Sailfish UI works on a tablet15:24
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aror maybe a bigger (6") phone?15:24
SK_workeyea_UK: ==> jolla.com15:24
SK_workMorpog_PC: indeed15:25
SK_workhowever, nothing on nemo mobile repos15:25
SK_workI spotted no interesting commit15:25
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SK_workdo lipstick need to be updated / enhanced for multi-app display for example ?15:25
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gexchope they put a strong vibrator in it if it is a tablet15:27
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gexccould the image be only the 'phone half'?15:29
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Morpog_PCguys check the blog out: http://jaakkoroppola.blogspot.fi/2014/10/multi-touch-and-bigger-screens.html15:29
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pdanekWell, the article touches the multi-touch subject.15:33
pdanekWhy Sailfish zooms with 2 fingers? It's so annoying. Why isn't old N900 way kept? (circle right or left to zoom in or out)15:33
marinaiohe wrote "Note that this has nothing to do with Jolla." though15:33
Morpog_PCpdanek, because 99% of smartphone users do zoom with 2 fingers15:33
pdanekMorpog_PC: Jolla is unlike15:34
pdanek:D15:34
Morpog_PCmarinaio, sure, he had to write that back then to not spoil any fun :D15:34
SK_workmarinaio, but the interactions described in article looks like those on a Jolla15:34
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deztructorpdanek: e.g. it can clash with some web ui actions using fingers: legal "take and drag" movement, or it can be used to draw or in online games15:41
deztructoralso it requires fine motor skill - hard for many people and in some conditions15:43
deztructoron N900 it was done in this way mostly because N900 had resistive touch screen w/o multitouch support15:44
TemeVthat N900 way doesn't sound intuitive15:45
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TemeVwhy would drawing a circle make things bigger/smaller15:45
frieseso - just checked my twitter ;) any guesses on the big thing? Kinda looks like a TOH to me (but could also be a battery - maybe one with extra capacity)15:45
warfareAnd you always got the gesture wrong...15:45
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Sail0rui http://www.jollausers.com/2014/11/jolla-the-countdown-to-something-big-begins-now/15:46
Morpog_PCA tablet with SailfishOS could attract all those people that waited for Vivaldi15:46
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SK_workMorpog_PC: is there that much people ? :)15:47
Morpog_PCput nemomobile on it and tada, an open source tablet15:47
SK_workit could attract people looking for less closed source15:47
SK_workie me15:47
SK_workMorpog_PC: or put some plasma active15:47
SK_work:)15:47
Morpog_PCwell, I hope so :D at least it had KDE community behind it15:47
SK_workMorpog_PC: or some nemo tablet edition15:47
Morpog_PCGlacier-UI tablet edition15:47
Morpog_PChurry up locusf :D15:48
SK_workyep15:48
locusfMorpog_PC: nemo already runs on a tablet15:48
TemeVSK_work: it could attract people looking for tablet with proper linux, i.e. me :)15:48
Morpog_PClocusf, I know15:48
SK_workTemeV: and me :)15:48
locusfMorpog_PC: also glacier :)15:49
Morpog_PCnote the tablet edition I added ;)15:49
Sail0ror jolla2 ;)15:52
Sail0rwith corei7 and 1tb ssd15:52
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Morpog_PCSK_work, could it be in a x86 fork and that thing is powered by some new atom? You know the ones which get susidized by intel?15:55
Morpog_PCsubsidized15:55
SK_workMorpog_PC: no atom please: it adds mess15:55
SK_workit could15:55
SK_workbut that would be bad/sad15:55
Morpog_PCthose new atoms are quite good15:55
SK_workMorpog_PC: it is arch wise15:56
pdanekTemeV: becuase drawing he circle allows you to precisely zoom in/out with 1 finger15:56
SK_workdo you see Jolla maintaining two arches ?15:56
pdanekcurrently I need 2 fingers15:56
SK_workplus devs doing so ?15:56
SK_workas well as aliendalvik team ?15:56
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TemeVpdanek: it doesn't make it _intuitive_15:58
Morpog_PCmaybe some super secret team and thats why last updates all were not on time because they had to priotitize manpower on the tablet and other arch?15:58
SK_workMorpog_PC: last updates were not on time because they were in vacation :P15:59
SK_workand because of Qt 5.2 :(16:00
Morpog_PC"vacation" is a codeword for doing work on the tablet :D16:00
SK_workMorpog_PC: don't think Stskeeps would agree with you :)16:00
Morpog_PChehe :D16:00
TemeVmaybe Stskeeps didn't know, because this is super secret :)16:01
lainwir3ddamn, it does look like a screen on the image16:02
Morpog_PCI'm sure stskeeps picked the hardware for it :D16:03
marinaioa screen with no bezels? :O16:03
Morpog_PCand hopefully avoided btrfs this time :D16:03
lainwir3dbezwhat ?16:03
gexcscreen could be smaller than the glass16:04
gexcjust like the current one16:05
lainwir3dwhat is a bezel ? :/16:05
Morpog_PCwasted space around screen16:05
SK_workTemeV: well, I guess Stskeeps knows everything that is supersecret :)16:05
SK_workMorpog_PC: btrfs is not ... that ... bad16:06
lainwir3danyway, I can't manage to concentrate anymore on my work now. Thanks Jolla !16:06
SK_worklainwir3d: +116:06
Morpog_PCSK_work, well, yeah on not so ancient kernel maybe :D16:06
coderusnemomobile have something similar with libupnp?16:06
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* Stskeeps looks at beer and candy and is going on a train soon16:07
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Morpog_PCStskeeps must have a great pokerface in that train16:07
Stskeepsi camuflage as a hobo.16:08
SK_workMorpog_PC: say thank you to qualcomm16:09
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Morpog_PCI know16:10
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lainwir3da coworker was going to buy a jolla tonight / tomorrow16:14
lainwir3dnow he doesn't want to16:14
falfaThe speaker in my Jolla stopped working16:14
lainwir3dHe might loose his voucher :P16:14
falfaToday i dropped the jolla in the floor at the subway, now the speaker is functional again16:14
Stskeepsproblem solved16:14
falfaagreed16:14
falfaat least for now16:15
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Morpog_PCquickl made mockup: http://abload.de/img/mockupq6r13.png16:25
Morpog_PCquikly16:25
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lainwir3dinfinite size tablet ! awesome !16:28
Morpog_PC:D16:28
* lainwir3d can't concentrate anymore16:28
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lainwir3dI would have prefered they said nothing before wednesday.16:30
lainwir3dThe waiting is horrible16:30
forgrimm:D16:30
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Teguyea, they should have done a surprise attack16:31
Teguor... s/should/could/16:32
cb400fit's gutsy ;-) ... it'd better really be BIG(!) or people will be disappointed :-)16:33
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SK_workcb400f: big in which sense ?16:34
SK_workhope not too big: it has to fit in hands16:34
attahthat announcement seems like the perfect birthday present :D16:34
cb400fin the sense that it'll interest/benefit very large parts of the community directly :-)16:34
* cb400f got the tohkbd kickstarter for _his_ birthday ;-)16:35
cb400f+ an opensuse release ;-)16:35
attahcb400f: not bad ;)16:35
cb400fand a keira black TOH16:35
Stskeepslifesize wax model of marc dillon for everybody16:35
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cb400fthough I were given the keira black TOH a few days before actually16:36
lainwir3dStskeeps: hahaha, nice :D16:36
attahStskeeps: well, i do need to decorate my livingroom a bit more.. laser cutter apparently doesn't count as art16:37
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kimmoliwax model of Marc with frikin laser attached to head ?16:38
attahhmmm :)16:39
kimmolido wax and lasers mix?16:39
cb400f:-)16:39
attahmelt, mix.. same thing16:39
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Tegumaybe it's a TV. that would be BIG at least16:41
cb400fmaybe Jolla acquired Nokia ;-)16:42
Stskeepsattah: replace the david hasselhof one16:42
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Teguor an all-in-one PC with sailfish16:42
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attahStskeeps: nah, i think they'll get along just fine16:43
kimmoliwhole weekend goes guessing16:43
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Teguor a tabletop touch pc16:43
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attahoh yeah.. i almost forgot.. kimmoli, I have an indea16:44
kimmolinah, new jolla dishware set16:44
attahir multi-remote TOH16:45
kimmolithat in the pic is the square pizza-stone16:45
Teguthe dishware set would a_awesome_16:45
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Teguand BIG16:45
attahdidn't e talk about finnish pizza? mämmi, pinapple, and what else?16:45
kimmoliattah: that TOH has been scetched already16:45
attahkimmoli: oh well, late to the party as always16:46
kimmolikinkku-ananas16:46
lainwir3dor.. a phatelevision16:46
lainwir3dphone / television16:46
lainwir3dit's BUG16:46
lainwir3dbig*16:46
lainwir3dor maybe it's juste another color TOH16:47
lainwir3dbut it won't be big..16:47
Teguno, what if it really is a BUG16:47
kimmolihmm... jolla-fork, for serious github users ?16:47
Morpog_PCits a tablet sized smartwatch, instant win for display size on smartwatches for the next few years :D16:47
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kimmolineed 2 wrists to carry it ?16:48
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Morpog_PCjust one big ugly ulrawrist16:48
Morpog_PCTM16:48
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Tegukimmoli: nah, it bends instead16:49
lainwir3dhaha16:49
Morpog_PCinstant win on bend contests?16:49
Morpog_PC:D16:49
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cb400fa Jolla tablet for christmas would be perfect timing, when my current newspaper subscription expires I'd like to go digital, but that requires a non-evil tablet16:53
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Morpog_PCbut what do I do with my old tablet16:53
lainwir3dwell, I agree I would finally be interested by a tablet.16:53
Morpog_PCI gifted my old old tablet to my sister the last time :D16:53
lainwir3dMorpog_PC: do you have another sister ?16:53
Morpog_PCnope (thank god)16:54
lainwir3dhaha16:54
Morpog_PCdamn I always need to leave for social life stuff when something interesting happens on the internet :D16:55
Morpog_PCcya laters16:55
ggabrieluhm... i don't like tablets16:55
ggabrielbut i'd get one off jolla anyway as a contribution16:55
ggabrielnot sure what i'd use it for16:55
SK_workI tried several tablets16:56
SK_workat the end I want a phone ...16:56
SK_worktablets are fun though16:56
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cb400fhm.. I get tons of documents, pdfs, blogs, websites etc. that I'd like to read, but never get it done cuz the pc is not comfortable enough, and the phone is too small... the e-book reader didn't work well with documents either... hope a tablet would work16:57
kimmolii have tried few tablets, also cheap-china stuff, but never really found any use for them16:58
Pilkebigger screen to play siika is enough reason to have Sailfish tablet16:58
kimmolio/16:58
ggabrielumm16:58
SK_worktablets are nice for youtube on the bed16:58
ggabrieltidings is 'nuff for reading stuff16:58
kimmolihmm... could make TOH to "join" 3 jolla to one -> tablet ?16:59
cb400fyep, for a tablet I'd only need a browser, feed reader, e-book reader, document viewer, e-mail client and video player16:59
Teguhaa :D16:59
ggabrielhw kbd to control the tablet16:59
ggabriel(instead of an additional bt kbd)16:59
SK_workcb400f: same16:59
SK_workwhat really need improvement on SFOS is the browser though17:00
ggabrielwell, the code is out there...17:00
SK_workggabriel: I would prefer not using gecko :)17:00
ggabrieland tbh, it works better than chrome/ff on android for the websites i visit17:00
ggabrielSK_work: webcat?17:00
SK_workggabriel: I do think that many stuff are related to gecko17:00
SK_workggabriel: meh17:00
SK_workI'm thinking of qtwebengine custom build :)17:00
SK_workwill dothis at some point :)17:00
ggabrielhappy to have n options tbh17:01
cb400fbrowser works fine for me.. with the exception of ghostery, adblock+ or similar easily available17:01
ggabrielsame in desktop17:01
kimmolionly thing i hate browsing is badly designed mobile webpages17:02
kimmoliwhich you cant force to desktop page, can't zoom/pan17:02
ggabriel...or the other way around: sometimes the mobile page is best17:03
ggabrielwithout so many ads etc :)17:03
* cb400f wonders if the tohkbd 100 € discount code would be applicable on a tablet ;-)17:05
* SK_work too17:05
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cb400fhm... still more than 4 days... think that counter is broken ;-)17:15
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ggabrieli estimate that the time difference between announcement and availability will be >6 months anyway17:16
Teguyea..17:18
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pdanekkimmoli: "wax model of Marc with frikin laser attached to head" oh :D we all want that, right? :D18:50
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Teemulaaaazers! yai!18:52
Teemusharks too?18:52
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pdanekTeemu: They're extinct in my dimension.18:53
pdanekInterdimensional Relay Chat18:53
Teemu:)18:55
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Teemui've been on irc now for twentysome years more or less continuously and can clearly remember when there was only the irc network that didn't need a name18:56
pdanekOu.18:56
Teemusuddenly a split happened and now we have multidimensional space of orthogonal irc networks18:57
pdanekI'm noob then.18:57
pdanekYep :D18:57
Stskeepsi once made software that ran 83% of all irc networks.18:57
Stskeepsthen i got bored and decided to revolutionize mobile linux18:57
Stskeeps:P18:57
Teguo_o18:57
Tegunice18:57
Teemui'm about to revolutionize how we all use electricity at buildings18:58
netzvieh83%? why not 95%? :P18:58
Stskeepshttps://forums.unrealircd.org/viewtopic.php?t=570118:58
netzviehseems you could've done better18:58
Stskeepshehe18:58
Teemucarsten is a good name18:59
pdanekSadly, I still use a shitty Pidgin for IRC.18:59
Tegujust happened to see this when browsing bash.org randomly http://www.bash.org/?5810818:59
Stskeepsjarkko worked in nokia for a while, he's now at google i think19:00
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tigeliyes, he was at google the last time I checked19:00
TeemuTegu: :D muahhhh19:00
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TeguI wonder if there is a way to see the quote dates..19:02
tigeliI hope not :D19:02
Teemubtw if there are any odenmaa region hackers around, I'd like to point out that Helsinki Hacklab has moved to Pitäjänmäki19:02
tigeliTegu: I would not want to find my quotes from '95 :D19:03
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Tegu:D19:03
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chem|stfscking hell jolla2 to be announced and I am on vacation... offshore...19:20
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Teemuat your secret offshore venture tax haven19:20
Teemuluckily the interweb tubes connection seems to work so you can order the next one19:20
Stskeepsone of mitt romney's cayman islands offshore companies were called 'jolla', as a rather fun note19:21
tigelichem|st: you could cancel your vacation :D19:21
Stskeepsfrom what i recall19:21
chem|sttigeli: 10MB roaming have to be enough!19:22
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chem|stStskeeps: will it be announcement only?19:22
Stskeepswhat, offshore company?19:23
chem|stlol19:23
chem|stjolla has set a timer with a corner of a 3D rendered phone... and you ask what I am talking19:23
Stskeepsit's friday at 8pm, i'm officially off work :P19:23
Stskeepsdead tired after two weekends with one talk in each19:24
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chem|stStskeeps: have a beer?19:24
Stskeepsalready had19:24
chem|st;)19:24
tigeliit's aeroplane19:24
chem|stsomething big, could be a tablet^^19:25
Stskeepstigeli: hah, i'd buy a jolla aeroplane.. industrial design with martin's touches19:25
HarhaanJohtaja60" tv19:25
Stskeepsshiny(TM)19:25
TeemuShiny, with Bells, Gongs and a Whistle, perhaps?19:25
tigeliStskeeps: with connman? ;)19:25
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tigeliStskeeps: connectivity between air traffic control and the plane :)19:26
tigelihmm, luckily it's friday19:26
* Stskeeps passes tigeli a beer19:27
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Stskeepshttps://twitter.com/YvesPE/status/411281223290339328 - now that's a plane i'd want19:29
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kimmolithis seems to be default in unreal conf file /* don't ban stskeeps */19:41
Stskeepsuhhuh19:41
Stskeepsinvicible. well. back on that isp.19:41
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Stskeepsyou learn the hard way nobody edits the default configs.19:42
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Shinryuuhiue19:55
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Teemu:D19:56
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mornfalloh wait, is the announcement going to be a jolla2?20:25
mornfalldon't kid me :P20:25
Teemucould be or not could be, that is the question20:25
mornfalltablet, on the other hand :-)20:25
mornfallwell, I guess everyone noticed that the pic isn't really a booklet20:25
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Teemuit could be a floor tile!20:27
Teguthat would be fabulous!20:27
silver_hook…or a charging pad.20:28
mornfallI sure as hell hope it's not an android device :P20:28
mornfallI can live with that :-)20:28
silver_hookBTW, the lucky ones among you who already have one …does by any chance the battery look like that?20:28
Teguhm yea.. blah. also someone guessed a spare battery earlier :P20:28
silver_hookTegu: Oh, sorry. Didn’t see it.20:29
TeguI wouldn't have a countdown for a spare battery20:29
silver_hookHuge rubber in a nice black metal/plastic casing.20:29
Tegusilver_hook: didn't even notice your latest message before sending thatt :D20:29
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silver_hookTegu: Haha, great minds think alike etc ;)20:30
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Tegureminds me of some donald duck story where Scrooge and and Rockerduck developed batteries for shoes. they had things like backback batteries and even irships carrying a battery. jolla could have something similar :) it would be BIG20:35
Teemuoh fsck20:36
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Teemui just noticed there's a breadboard other half20:37
silver_hookTeemu: Cool, innit? ☺20:38
Teemui wish there was spi on the connector20:38
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silver_hookHas anyone tried to run 100% FS on the Jolla (apart from drivers)?20:39
silver_hookThat’d help me *a lot* to get my employer to buy me a Jolla ;)20:39
Teemui'm not aware of any i2c network interfaces but i'm involved with making a 10/100BaseT board that supports power over ethernet and hooking that to a jolla phone would rock20:39
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fennekkiwwell20:40
Teemunow we're just making different versions of the same schematic for st nucleo and other devboards20:40
fennekkiyou COULD just20:40
fennekkiwrite a driver for ethernet over i2c I guess20:40
Teemusilver_hook: what's 100% FS?20:40
silver_hookTeemu: 100% Free Software20:40
Teemuahh20:41
silver_hook(a.k.a. FOSS)20:41
fennekkiFOSS is a bit better known I guess20:41
fennekkithough it's20:41
fennekkitechnically not the same thing20:41
Teemu:)20:41
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fennekkibecause free software is necessarily open-source as per all definitions but open-source software doesn't need to be that free20:41
Teemui'm not sure about the different names of free20:41
silver_hookSo, did anyone try to run as much F(OS)S as possible on the Jolla and how far did they get?20:41
fennekkibasically there's FSF free and doesn't-cost-anything free20:42
fennekkiopen source doesn't have to be either20:42
silver_hookhttp://fsfe.org/about/basics/freesoftware.html20:42
Teemudepending on your point of view, the biggest mouthpieces of FREE software impose a huge fricking big limitation on the freeness20:42
Teemusilver_hook: yes, the fsf are demanding they own the word free20:42
fennekkiI don't see how a viral license restricts your freedoms that much20:42
silver_hookTeemu: Link?20:42
fennekkiif you don't wanna link with GPL'd libraries then don't20:43
fennekkiin very rare cases are they even the only possibility20:43
silver_hookCan we not go into the copyleft vs. lax licensing war?20:43
Teemuas the world keeps wanting freer than fsf-free, the fsf keeps reinventing new and better names for their version of free20:43
Teemusilver_hook: sorry20:43
Teemui'll shut my feeding hole20:43
fennekkiFSF totally approves of public-domaining your code too, though, as well as something like20:43
fennekkiwhat's it again20:43
fennekkithat three-clause one20:44
Nicd-MIT?20:44
fennekkiaren't there two licenses called MIT license20:44
fennekkiwell, anyway20:44
silver_hookTeemu: Sorry. I should appologise …my head hurts and I would like to keep my work out of my head for the rest of the day.20:44
Nicd-MIT Expat is mor exact20:44
silver_hookfennekki: 3 Clause BSD?20:44
Nicd-but public domain is not a good choice20:44
Nicd-it's not valid everywhere20:44
fennekkiNicd-: that's why you use Unlicense or CC020:44
fennekkiwhich has a short waiver license that pretty much accomplishes most of public-domaining anyway20:45
silver_hookNicd-: What fennekki said, yes (CC0).20:45
Teguwtfpl?20:45
fennekkiWTFPL isn't legally applicable in a lot of places, probably20:45
TeemuTegu: a floor tile, really fancy floor tile20:45
Teemuor ceiling tile20:45
fennekkiUnlicense is kind of somewhere, CC0 is made to be as applicable as possible20:45
Teguceiling tile watches you20:45
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fennekkibasically the point of FSF free is just that they want all programs to share the same license and I can see the point in that. There's plenty of apps on, say, the Android app market that are completely open-source but very few alternative distributors20:46
fennekkiI can see selling GPL'd software as perfectly feasible20:46
fennekkiespecially since warez is a thing anyway20:47
silver_hookfennekki: You mean: https://f-droid.org/20:47
fennekkisilver_hook: no, I mean alternate distributors for apps that cost money on play store20:47
fennekkisorry for being inexact20:47
fennekkilike how Plumble used to cost a few dollars20:47
mornfallsilver_hook: most drivers actually exist in free versions20:47
fennekkibut the source was always on github20:47
silver_hookfennekki: Ah, OK.20:47
mornfallsilver_hook: you could run freedreno and there's gpl wlan driver too20:47
keithzgHell, the company I work for sells software, and some of it even links to degrees against GPL and LGPL code, but people pay us for support and to add features for them, not for the copies of the code itself really.20:47
mornfallsilver_hook: the only thing you'd be stuck with is the modem20:48
mornfallsilver_hook: other than that, it should be entirely doable20:48
mornfallwith the right tools at least (you definitely need a serial console)20:48
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silver_hookmornfall: we’re still talking Jolla?20:48
mornfallsilver_hook: current jolla hardware yes20:48
silver_hookNeat ☺20:48
mornfallI was offline coz there's bad 3G coverage20:48
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silver_hookmornfall: And other than that? I know the UI and some core apps are proprietary …what’s the state of FS alternatives?20:49
mornfallsilver_hook: look for "updated components" on together.jolla.com20:49
silver_hook…and is there more of the stack that’s non-free?20:49
mornfallsilver_hook: no idea, but you could run X as far as I can tell... not SW-compatible with sailfish though20:49
silver_hookmornfall: I saw that …but I don’t recall there being a list of alternatives.20:49
* keithzg really hopes the "something big" is a tablet; SailfishOS would be pretty great on a big, hi-res screen.20:50
mornfallgotta get off train, bbiab20:50
silver_hookmornfall: I was thinking more in the lines of the Nemo Mobile Glacier UI: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Glacier20:50
silver_hookmornfall: Mind the gap!20:50
Teemukeithzg: indeed it would be20:52
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silver_hookmornfall: Glacier looks pretty cool actually (for an alternative FS UI): http://play.qwazix.com/grog/ …I especially like the CLI-like home screen idea :D20:58
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silver_hookTeemu, keithzg: Personally I don’t really care for tablets. But I guess it would make a lot of people happy …and that’s fine by me ☺ It might actually be that, because it seems to lack a TOH.21:01
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keithzgsilver_hook: I spend all day sitting at a keyboad and monitors, so when I get home I prefer to sit back on my leather couch or, if it's a nice day out, go off to the nearby park or such (not possible 80% of the year because I'm in northern Canada, but still!)21:03
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keithzgSo for me tablets are how I keep up my geeky pursuits without having to spend all my waking hours at a desk, heh.21:03
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silver_hookkeithzg: I get it, it’s just not my thing personally. My GF is also a huge tablet (and phablet) fan.21:04
mornfall(back)21:04
silver_hookmornfall: Welcome back! \o/21:05
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* mornfall checks out glacier21:06
keithzgsilver_hook: Yeah, I'm on the fence about the phablet thing. Many times I find myself wishing I had my Nexus 7 with me, especially when something comes up at work and I have to fix it remotely, so a phablet might be nice . . . but giving up the possibility of one-handed use is a big ask.21:06
mornfallsilver_hook: what's CLI-like about it?21:06
* keithzg might just decide to be a crazy person and buy a phablet *as well* as keep a normal smartphone or two around . . . already carry a Jolla oftentimes despite being unable to use it other than on wifi, heh.21:07
Nicd-well, if it is a tablet/phablet/bigger device... so much app fixing to do :)21:07
silver_hookmornfall: http://play.qwazix.com/grog/?p=73821:07
Teemui like laptops and bringing them to nature settings for relaxed coding21:08
silver_hook“So my proposal is to modify the home-screen search box to also accept terminal commands. The commands will have a faded autocomplete with included help, and the various autocompleted options will transform into drop down menus when clicked. All this functionality will use plain old bash autocomplete to work.”21:08
mornfallsilver_hook: well, yes, but that's not the homescreen is it?21:08
mornfallsilver_hook: ah OK21:08
mornfallstill, with a touch keyboard it's a no-go for me21:08
mornfall(but yeah, I'll have a tohkbd in half a year or so when they are done :-)21:09
Teemu:)21:09
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silver_hookmornfall: Agreed … *but* if TOHKBD works on it (and people on #mer said it should be a very simple driver to do), that’d be great.21:09
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silver_hook…I admit it doesn’t look as æsthetic as Sailfish’s UI though.21:09
silver_hookSooooo, is there a list of FS alternatives to proprietary SailfishOS bits already?21:10
mornfallsilver_hook: well, the proprietary bits are in the lowest (driver) and highest (ui) levels21:11
mornfallsilver_hook: drivers modulo modem are available21:11
silver_hookmornfall: Right and Alien Dalvik, I suppose.21:11
mornfallsilver_hook: and UIs are available too21:11
mornfallsilver_hook: alien dalvik is an app :P21:11
mornfallyou probably wouldn't run a sailfishos on a free phone21:12
silver_hookmornfall: Neither is the UI or drivers ;)21:12
mornfall-a21:12
mornfallapp as in store-level app21:13
mornfallnone of the jolla store apps would work on a free system21:13
silver_hookAh, that. OK.21:13
mornfallsilica is not free21:13
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silver_hookRight. Any plans to change that?21:14
mornfallno idea21:14
mornfallask sailors :)21:14
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silver_hookThanks :)21:15
mornfallI would be lotsa happier if they pulled out TTL alongside the I2C pins :P21:15
silver_hookWorking on it.21:15
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silver_hookmornfall: Not on the TTL …what would TTL help you with?21:15
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silver_hookI know people already asked for USB OTG21:16
Teemuttl what?21:16
mornfallthen I could throw out the junk wlan.ko and try the junk free wlan driver from qualcomm :-)21:16
silver_hookTeemu: I guess: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transistor–transistor_logic21:16
Teemui'm pretty happy with cmos as it is now21:16
Teemusilver_hook: i'm guessing the same21:16
mornfallTTL serial console21:17
Teemuwhat? _)21:17
mornfallit's how you attach serial consoles to arm soc's21:17
mornfallyou convert ttl to uart to usb21:17
Teemu... namings ...21:17
mornfallrs23221:18
mornfallwhatever :-)21:18
mornfallserial console... you know what that is right? :)21:18
Teemuto me that would be uart or usart or perhaps logic level rs232 or something21:18
Teemuyes i know21:18
mornfallhttps://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/21521:18
Teemubtw on modern iron that is never going to be ttl since the logic family is cmos21:18
Teemuttl as a logic family with push-pull bipolar transistors21:19
mornfalldunno, my old kirkwood has ttl, and raspberry has ttl21:20
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Teemucmos is much better, especially when nowadays you can select if you have push-pull or open drain on per-pin basis on most decent microcontrollers21:20
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Teemuraspberry has a logic level serial console yes, but it is made in cmos process21:20
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mornfallcall it whatever you will, native-voltage 1 and no-voltage 0 that I can use to talk to the bootloader and the kernel after that is good enough for me :-) if you can upload files to the bootloader with it, even better21:24
mornfallyou can get at it if you disassemble the case, I guess, because they need it for service and stuff21:25
mornfall(alternatively, they have jtag or something to reflash the bootloader)21:25
mornfallalthough debugging things blindly with only a reflashing capability is probably not much fun21:26
Teemujtag gives you pretty much anything21:27
mornfall(no idea if you can put a console on jtag)21:27
Teemuconsole would be hard but things like breakpoints and register inspection and stuff like that are dead easy21:27
mornfallhttps://www.tablix.org/~avian/blog/archives/2012/08/monitoring_serial_console_through_jtag/21:28
silver_hookmornfall: You know avian?21:28
mornfallnope21:29
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mornfallcame up on google21:29
silver_hookAh, OK. He’s a smart cookie …I like him :)21:30
Teemuwhat's this cookie thing? :)21:30
mornfalla figure of speech :P21:30
Teemui know :)21:30
Teemuwhere from?21:30
mornfallLjubljana21:31
silver_hookTeemu: To be honest, I dunno where the expression came from …but it’s sweet ;)21:31
Teemusmart cookie keeps coming up around me in a good way21:31
silver_hookWho is?21:31
Teemua fellow under the same startup pre-incubator mikko from nimble devices uses the phrase21:32
mornfallhttps://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080613194309AAvIrF0 ... it's *old*21:32
Teemua few others too21:32
silver_hookmornfall: Who is from Lj?21:32
mornfallsilver_hook: avian21:32
silver_hookmornfall: Ah, him. Yes, he is. From the same LUG and hackerspace as I am as well.21:34
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Teemuhackerspaces are cool21:35
Teemu(i'm wearing a hackerspace now)21:35
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mornfallWorld is small. Some NixOS folks are from Slovenia IIRC...21:35
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Teemuhttps://plus.google.com/106599856185155563972/posts/aSeqJ9p94jd  <-- this is from work rougly 18 moons ago21:37
silver_hookTeemu: That’s a DIY Arduido clone?21:39
Teemuwith ARM and Ethernet and Power over Ethernet21:39
Teemuand blackjack and hookers21:39
Teemuwe at ell-i open source cooperative had a run of 50 made then, now we're into making separate ethernet+power supply boards for a range of devboards21:41
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silver_hookTeemu: But a proper processor makes it closer to a R-Pi, right?21:41
Teemuwell, r-pi has poor peripherals for controlling any realtime thing21:42
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Teemuthe chips in r-pi and cellphones and set top boxen have good connectivity to bigger hardware but if you want to control a switch mode power supply you're out of luck21:43
Teemuthen again, a linux or other big os kernel is way too big anyway21:43
Teemuthat particular board, ellduino, has a stm32f051 mcu type arm that has pretty nice peripherals21:44
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silver_hookhmm, oddly interesting21:45
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Teemuthe stm32f334 has superb pwm timers and analog comparators all hooked up into each other and a very nice nested vector interrupt controller hardware21:45
Teemuthe nvic does away most of the os kernel duties of context switching and handles nested interrupts without letting priority inversion hang out in the way21:46
Teemuit handles the context switch in hardware for you and does it prett damn fast21:47
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Teemuyou can set up the comparator so that if it triggers, the pwm values are changed in a predetermined way _immediately_ and a hw interrupt is generated so that your isr can then react more intelligently but most importantly the pwm values are already switched to some known-safe values before any isr has had the time to investigate21:49
mekluhmm, do you need to do something special to download the update 9 sdk?21:50
mekluit's not showing up in the updater21:51
Nicd-you need to download it from the site21:51
Nicd-it's opt-in like the update itself :P21:51
kimmoliTeemu: finally someone that shares thoughs with stm32...21:52
r0kk3rzand its a full reinstall rather than an update per say21:53
Teemukimmoli: i'm liking them very much21:54
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r0kk3rzhmm im going to have to stay up for the big reveal21:54
r0kk3rznot too late though which is nice21:55
Teemutheir peripherals have an annoying way of refusing to work unless you follow the register invocation cantations in exactly correct order21:55
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Teemuother than that, very nice mcus21:55
Teemunow that the nucleo boards have an integrated st-link2 they can be very reliably gdb debugged too21:55
kimmoli going to have to stay up for the big reveal21:55
kimmoli23:55 < r0kk3rz> not too late though which is21:56
kimmoliwut21:56
kimmolihttps://github.com/kimmoli/stm32-toh-programmer21:56
r0kk3rzmidnight isnt too late21:56
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r0kk3rzbut it is staying up21:56
kimmolist i2c implementation takes some time to get it understood21:56
Teemukimmoli: FAAAAK mään :D that's crazy21:56
Teemui could do actual dayjob work with my phone21:56
kimmoli:)21:57
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Teemunow i just need tohkbd, vi and a compiler/make toolchain22:00
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kimmolithat was made for eink proto, tested with only one new stm3222:02
Teemuwhich one?22:02
kimmolimoment22:03
kimmoli40122:03
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Teemui wish they made a nucleo with any stm32 that has hw crypto22:05
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Teemubtw if you like the stm32s are you interested in a 10/100BaseT and PoE supply shield for the nucleo family?22:05
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kimmolipoe would be nice, have to check out nucleo22:07
kimmoliname sounds familiar22:07
mornfallTeemu: but the ARM design you are using is not open hardware is it?22:08
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Teemumornfall: huh? is the intel chip in your laptop open hardware?22:08
mornfallTeemu: no, my laptop isn't open hardware22:08
mornfallthere are open CPU design, but not something you could put in a laptop and reasonably use it22:09
mornfalldesigns*22:09
Teemuwe selected the stm32 family because it is a good design for embedded devices and my fellow founder pekka nikander (yes, him) happened to have personal experience with the family22:09
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kimmolinoticed that eink design has repo, but it is empty..22:10
Teemumornfall: are the open hardware cpus big or small? i'm speaking about things where the biggest just announced not yet in manufacture member of the family has whopping 300kB of ram22:11
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mornfallhttp://opencores.org/ :)22:11
mornfallTeemu: the designs usually run on FPGAs, so I guess that's “small”22:12
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Teemuwhile you cannot compile the *hdl to an fpga with open/free/something tools22:13
Teemuthat's not a limitation for me, but has been for some people in my hacklab22:13
Teemurunning a cpu in fpga is hardly good use for them though22:14
Teemualso: the fpga chips are more closed than any mcu22:14
Teemukimmoli: are you perhaps in greater helsinki region?22:16
kimmoliespoo22:17
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Teemucoolnes22:17
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Teemunow soon you're gonna tell me you worked for nixu in the 1990s?22:18
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niuranit seems there will be new hardware in four days. ..22:18
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niuranhope toh concept will not vanish22:19
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kimmoliTeemu: no22:21
Teemusentään22:21
_cvp_niuran, hope its a smartphone and no tablet ;)22:21
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niurani think it is not a tablet22:22
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niuranbut a phone without some "modularity " should be so...conventional22:24
Teemukimmoli: i'm having the poe+ethernet shields available before christmas so you can buy all your hacker family their own... :)22:27
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kimmoliok22:32
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keithzgIf it's a smartphone I hope it actually supports AWS 3G, right now my Jolla is a tiny tablet, heh.22:33
Teemukimmoli: are you already member of the helsinki hacklab?22:34
kimmolino22:34
Teemunew space is at takkatie 18 and can be reached with the a-train or 55022:36
Teemunow, sleep calls me22:36
Teemuttyl o/22:36
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kimmolimo22:39
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silver_hookTeemu: G’night …I’m dead tired as well.22:55
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r0kk3rztheres a helsinki hacklab?23:10
r0kk3rzcool, might have to visit next time i am in fi23:10
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eitzeiMoikka, onko mitään hyvää kikkaa miten voisin yrittää debugata mistä Jolla hakee päivämäärän ja kellon ajan? Omassa Jollassa on alkanu olemaan tälläisiä ongelmia sen jälkeen ku muutin Hollantiin. Voiko esim paikallinen SIM-kortti aiheuttaa ongelmia? Voisin myös väittää Jollan olevan epävakaampi täällä :s23:24
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