#jollamobile log for Friday, 2014-11-21

AL13Nyeah, i'm off too00:02
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AL13Nfunny, i have a btrfs subvolume with negative exclusive value00:02
AL13Nand 0 ref00:02
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_inte_calamari: there is a port of Stellarium for SailfishOS in the Jolla Store00:52
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Acce_inte_: what is it called? I didn't notice it05:35
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kimmolii have this installed  http://thelarge.org/stellarium-sailfish/05:40
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Toferyukafalz: LuneOS is actually capable of running qml apps... though it is not the preferred way, of course07:01
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ryukafalzTofe: Oh dang, so it is07:52
ryukafalzand there's this :D https://github.com/webOS-ports/qtquickcontrols-luneos07:52
Teemuaint webos the palmpilot thingy?07:53
ryukafalzTeemu: Yeah, it was Palm's OS for the Pre07:53
ryukafalzit was actually really nice though07:53
Teemuis it anyhow related to the pre palm pre palm devices palmos?07:54
ryukafalznope07:54
Teemugood07:54
ryukafalzPalmOS was old and tired a decade ago ;)07:54
Teemuoriginal palmos was more like 68k macos with even less features07:55
* ryukafalz used to use a Treu 650007:55
Teemuno mmu features, no multitasking, no nothing07:55
ryukafalz*Treo 65007:55
ryukafalzI can't type today apparently07:55
Stskeepsgood morning07:55
ryukafalz'morning07:56
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_inte_Acce Stekkarium SF07:59
_inte_;)07:59
_inte_Stellarium SF08:00
meklucouldn't find that in the store08:01
meklumaybe the search just blows08:02
meklu(it does)08:02
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_inte_well i have it installed08:48
_inte_maybe from openrepos then?08:48
Nicd-couldn't find it in the store either08:48
_inte_or direct link08:48
_inte_http://thelarge.org/stellarium-sailfish/08:48
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_inte_i installed it quite some time ago and i cant remember from where08:51
_inte_but rather from or or store then direct link08:51
_inte_maybe it was removed again08:52
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fluxas I suspected: after the jolla announcement that wasn't an incompatible-with-tohkbd jolla2 phone, the tohkbd backers/day returned back to normal rate :)09:16
anYc:)09:20
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SpeedEvilwoo - $1m11:54
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SpeedEvilWhen is the anticipated retail availability?11:54
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stephgMay11:57
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tadzikwell, the preordered units will be there in may :)12:10
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fluxif past is something we can learn from.. they will be on the shelevs by April :P12:14
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fluxarmadillo, is it any good?12:14
Armadillomaybe Sail0r can answer your questions better12:15
Sail0rI like it it works very good12:15
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SpeedEvilflux: hmm12:16
* SpeedEvil wonders if he actually wants to preorder, as squaretrade won't cover preorders12:16
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ln-does Marc speak finnish?12:17
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fluxspeedevil, personally, I still don't know what I would do with a tablet :-/12:21
fluxwell, other than stick one to the freezer door to maintain the contents list there12:21
SpeedEvilflux: I use my nexus 7 quite a lot.12:22
NavFeature request: magnetic back for attachment to freezer ;-)12:22
fluxspeedevil, for what?12:22
SpeedEvilBut - I've broken the screen accidentally - so the squaretrade accidental dmage coverage paid off for me12:22
ArmadilloNav lol12:22
SpeedEvilflux: Several things.12:22
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fluxspeedevil, things you wouldn't rather use a laptop for?12:23
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SpeedEvilflux: Random camera,listening to podcasts (couple of hours a day), alarm, reading linear text12:23
SpeedEvilflux: yes.12:23
fluxwell, 3 of those cases are better IMO handled by a mobile phone12:23
fluxfor reading, that's a use case I could buy, but I would rather have an A4 size tablet with e-ink-like display12:24
SpeedEvilA4 has a massive lever-arm12:24
SpeedEvilFor dense textbook diagrams - sure12:24
SpeedEvilFor fiction - just no12:24
fluxI actually have a Kindle as well12:24
SpeedEvilEpecially if I'm curled up in bed12:25
fluxturns out I use it veeery raraely12:25
SpeedEvilI have a kindle too - it doesn't get used compared to reading on screen.12:25
SpeedEvilof the n712:25
fluxI used to read some fiction on N9. it was OK. but of course, its screen was bad for text.12:25
fluxthe main benefit: I always had it along with me12:26
SpeedEvilyeah12:26
nanderJust buy a kobo glow12:26
SpeedEvilDue to stuff, I'm rarely away from the house12:26
nanderglo*12:26
nanderSmall, portable, affordable12:26
nanderAnd nice battery time12:26
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SpeedEvilSo mobile is less important12:26
fluxI suppose it would be an ok web browsing accompanion while sitting on the couch12:27
SpeedEvilpretty much.12:27
fluxbut if I want to do some random ircing/coding while doing it, I just want a keyboard :)12:27
SpeedEvilFor data entry of any sort - just painful.12:27
fluxit's faster to switch between virtual desktops than devices12:27
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nanderI might try to write some program to integrate the jolla tablet into your desktop system12:27
nanderSo you can directly control your computer on there ;)12:28
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louisdkI've trouble connecting my Jolla to a bluetooth keyboard.12:32
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ortylpCory Doctorow preordered jolla tablet too :)12:53
ortylphttp://boingboing.net/2014/11/19/crowdfunding-jolla-a-gnulinu.html12:53
meklucool, cool12:56
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AcceHe says it's total vaporware but that isn't true, weren't there working prototypes already?14:13
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Teemunander: a qtish interface to ovirt virtualization environment could be cool14:14
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Teemuthey're using some nonvnc nonrdp protocol the name of which i already forgot14:15
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ortylpIt is vapourware, the proof: I do not have it in my hands.  until then it IS vapourvare.  Protypes do not count.14:22
Stskeepsit's a tablet in a box. it's unclear if the box is real.14:22
ortylp:D14:22
ortylpgood14:22
stephgif you open the box does the tablet shut down?14:23
stephgis there poison in the box?14:23
SpeedEvilstephg: depends on if the radioisotope decays or not14:24
ggabrielboth of them14:24
ggabrieldepends on which universe you're at14:24
stephgthere is one clear upside with the tablet in general tho:14:25
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Stskeepsno modem?14:25
Stskeeps:P14:25
stephgit guarantees that we'll spend the first few months of 2015 answering #soon to people14:25
stephglol14:25
ggabriel#staytuned14:26
ggabrielshall we make a countdown btw?14:27
* stephg thinks the codenames for all future products should be soon14:27
Stskeepssoon by jolla14:27
Stskeeps(sbj)14:28
stephgaha14:28
locusflol :D14:28
stephgggabriel: yes14:28
ggabrielhehe14:28
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ortylpI have shown yesterday the croundfunding campain for the tablet to an acquaintance, who is is professionally PR consultant, his response today at the breakfast was, that this kind of movement brings him back the faith that there are still people not completely sold to big corporations...14:29
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ggabrielstephg: https://gagv.org.uk/jollatablet.html14:31
Armadilloomg :D14:31
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stephgdamnit you didn't give anyone time to do the ETA to the countdown app, app ;)14:32
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ggabriellol14:33
Nicd-needs more styling14:33
ggabrielNicd-: i'm a simple guy, minimalistic design14:33
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ggabrielalso, delivered in under 5 mins :P14:34
stephghaha14:34
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ggabrielbut happy to add contributed styling14:34
ggabrielor just forget about it14:34
stephgcan't you put '#soon' in a blink tag or something14:34
Teemudamn i always forget the phone in the car cradle14:34
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ggabrielaren't blink tags forbidden these days?14:34
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stephgprobably14:35
stephgor was that marquee14:35
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Teemujavascript blink animation that follows the mouse cursor all over14:35
Teemuvery late 1990s14:35
ggabrieladded it tho14:35
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Nicd-ggabriel: copy from http://ahlroth.fi/ :)14:36
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stephgsmall bug ggabriel, when on my laptop, it doesn't work in portrait :D14:36
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ggabrielummm looks bad14:37
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ggabrielstephg: oh no14:37
Nicd-:(14:37
ggabrielyou're probably touching the screen while turning the laptop14:37
Nicd-but... I used all my skills14:37
ggabrielNicd-: yeah, <a> aren't nice14:37
stephgggabriel: that's probably it14:37
ggabrielanyway, just for lulz14:38
Nicd-ggabriel: a { color: #abcdef; }14:38
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ggabrielNicd-: done14:41
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ggabriellooks nicer14:41
ggabrielstill minimalistic14:41
Nicd-now center it14:41
Nicd-;)14:41
Nicd-put it in <div id="note"></div>14:41
mekluNicd-: not responsive enough :(14:41
Nicd-(and make the font smaller)14:41
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mekluhttps://notgaf.com/14:42
Nicd-meklu: you need to be more responsive to the design14:42
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ggabrielwow14:42
Nicd-meklu: oooooh14:42
Nicd-spiffy14:42
ggabrieldone14:43
Nicd-I'll need to update my stuff14:43
meklu:)14:43
meklukind of sucks that you can't really express that in any reasonable way :(14:43
Nicd-ggabriel: your #note height is 00% :D14:43
Nicd-you broked it14:43
meklusomething like "hey, stretch this text to fit this thing here"14:43
ggabrieloh no14:43
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ggabrielfixed14:44
ggabrielstupid x14:44
Nicd-yaay14:44
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meklu:D14:45
meklucool countdown14:45
meklu#soon indeed14:45
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SK_workwait what, TOHKBD hero pledged15:44
TemeVIt seems that way :)15:45
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SK_worksignature15:47
SK_workkimmoli will be tired signing all these handwritten notes :)15:48
SK_worknow what to engrave15:48
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kimmoliyyyy15:49
SK_workkimmoli: are you ready ? :d15:49
SK_workbetter start now15:49
Morpog_PCwtf jolla for 149€15:49
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fluxmonth 2 of delayed tohkbd shipments.. "still writing signatures, 50% there"15:49
Morpog_PCcoderus,15:49
SK_workflux: :D15:50
kimmoli149?15:50
Morpog_PCyes15:50
flux991/1000, 1000 is not far indeed. next up, 2000 ;)15:50
locusfwhat its 249¤15:50
Morpog_PCshop is now at 249€ and you can use code: jolla <3 slush for another 100€ discount15:50
locusfah :D15:51
locusflol15:51
kimmolioo15:51
* Morpog_PC thinks about getting one for spare parts :D15:51
TemeVDamn, thats quite cheap15:51
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anYcgreat, I return mine within 14 days and order a new one for 100€ less15:52
TemeVIf I hadn't use my technology budget for the next decade already, I would buy my self a development phone15:52
coderusMorpog_PC: ?15:53
Morpog_PCah you noticed about discount already on twitter15:53
coderusMorpog_PC: yep15:53
coderusno discount outside EU anyway15:54
kimmolimaybe i get one foe spare battery15:54
Morpog_PCkimmoli, thats what I thought, lol15:54
CissWitjust bought a jolla last week for 249€..15:54
kimmoli:) and :(15:54
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coderus:) and (:15:55
Morpog_PCi bought one for 399€ ;)15:55
CissWitme too15:55
coderusyou can buy some for trading it later :D15:55
FiSHBoYI still can't buy one (from the source) anyways, so maybe it will be super cheap by the time it is for sale in my region, lol15:55
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locusfyeah 149¤ jolla coming for Nemo adventures :)15:56
japa-fiMorpog_PC, Did I understand correctly, jolla (the phone) available at 149€ (with the discount codes)?15:56
Morpog_PCyes15:56
kimmoliit would be 4th...15:56
coderus:( and :(15:57
* Morpog_PC needs to prevent himself buying one, needs the force so much......15:57
japa-fiThats cheap... I've been thinking about upgrading my phone to bit more modern one, but I don't have anythng apple (nor think of getting one) and I hate the loss of my privacy towards google.15:57
kimmoliheh15:57
japa-fiAnd my N900 is starting to be underpowered for anything modern...15:58
FiSHBoYN900 still, impressive :)15:58
RaimCissWit: did you already receive your Jolla? I think there is a 14-day return period free of charge...15:58
Stskeeps149 eur ?15:58
Morpog_PCyes15:58
japa-fiFiSHBoY, You mean "n900 is still impressive" or "it's impressive that I'm still using N900"?15:59
Morpog_PCcrazy eh :D15:59
FiSHBoYthe latter ;)15:59
FiSHBoYbut the N900 is also impressive15:59
Morpog_PCoooh, it doesn't seem to work anymore15:59
anYclet's see if they simply forgot the slush discount ;)15:59
japa-fiNow, where can I get these €149 jollas?15:59
Morpog_PClol, seems we shocked someone inside Jolla a bit :D15:59
kimmolihög16:00
StskeepsMorpog_PC: i should really pay more attention in our ops calls..16:00
Yanielheh16:00
Yanielhmm now to back that tablet or not...16:00
coderusStskeeps: no more 149 euro phones? :D16:01
YanielI suppose it would be an awesome GL/GLES playground16:01
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Raimcoderus: no, not anymore... "Coupon code "jolla <3 slush" is not valid."16:01
japa-fiAnd for those of you with experience to with the phone: I assume it has shell, ssh, sshd, suitable media player (for music), (offline) maps, hopefully also someting from OSM. This is just to meet my N900 usage habits.16:01
coderus:D16:01
Morpog_PCcoderus, discount code is not valid anymore16:01
coderusaffirmative16:01
Morpog_PCI should have not tweetet about it, lol :D16:02
CissWiti kinda feel better now :p16:02
anYcwell, :) and :( again ^^16:02
coderusMorpog_PC: you not alone16:02
anYcdidn't waste 100€ but won't buy a second one16:02
kimmoliblame Morpog_PC16:02
TemeVjapa-fi: shell: yes, ssh: yes, sshd: yes, media player: matter of opinion, offline maps: with android here maps yes16:02
* Morpog_PC hides16:02
* anYc puts Morpog_PC on his list16:03
anYc:)16:03
coderusjapa-fi: offline OSM maps: yes16:03
TemeVcoderus: really, there is offline OSM maps?16:03
japa-fiAs upgrade I could think of Vyber (or what the heck it's called, voip software... why don't people use _real_ SIP client?!)16:03
Morpog_PCsomeone on TMO bought it for 149€16:04
coderusTemeV: yes, there is one app under development i testing16:04
TemeVok, cool16:04
Morpog_PClucky guy16:04
kimmolii think jolla should organize these momentarily "giveaways" more often16:04
anYcI guess they can still cancel it16:04
* Morpog_PC wants firesales every week16:04
fluxkimmoli, yeah, make people not think the price on the store is the one they want to pay :)16:04
kimmolimaybe when 2M reached, discount valid for 15mins16:05
flux('not' perhaps placed awkwardly)16:05
ortylpTemeV: with android there is OSMAnd: vector offline OSM maps and navigation16:05
Raimkimmoli: it only makes other supporters sad who bought outside this short timeframe16:05
anYcalthough GPS only works reliably if I have nokia "here" open in the background16:06
TemeVortylp: I was thinking of native app16:06
kimmolilive fast, live cheap?16:06
ortylpanYc: I do not start here maps on jolla at all, OSMAnd and Skobbler work OK16:06
ortylpTemeV: then get to work and port OSMAnd :)16:07
TemeVwell, Coderus just said that it is under development already16:07
* Nav would love a port of mappero16:07
NavThat was REALLY useful on my n90016:07
TemeVAnd I can't port all the apps I want :) Just one at a time16:08
NavBeing able to upload an sqlite db of waypoints to go and check was great16:08
NavHaven't found anything close to it (native or android)16:09
ortylpTemeV: I have heard something, but it was bitmap data (then?).  I hate seeing identical functionality reimplemented from scratch each time the platform slightly changes16:09
SK_workTemeV: coderus porting osmand ?16:09
SK_workit have a qt core actually16:09
SK_workusing skia16:09
SK_worktoo16:10
SK_workfor rendering16:10
SK_workquite a heavy thing but looks quite nice16:10
TemeVSK_work: [18:04] < coderus> TemeV: yes, there is one app under development i testing16:10
TemeVThat's all I know16:10
ortylpNav: I do not understand what functionality you mean, but OSMAnd supports loading waypoint/tracks and displaying/following them16:11
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Navortylp: mappero had a very nice interface for setting waypoint categories for waypoints and adding notes to them16:12
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NavI surveyed huge amounts of my local area, and could just pull the sqlite db off the n900 and convert it to gpx to load into an OSM editor16:13
NavCould also preload it with things (like bus stops) to check, and just change the waypoint category when the info was confirmed16:13
Navhad a really nice workflow going16:14
ortylpNav: please take a (longer) look at OSMAnd and its plugins, I am sure it has the functionality you seek.  It might not be obvious immediately, but it should already be there16:14
ortylpNav: Support for OSM editing is there16:14
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NavMaybe I need to update16:16
NavHmmm, I appear to have 1.7.5 and current seems to be 1.916:18
ortylpNav: I have 1.9.2.g at the moment16:19
ortylpNav: and look at Settings/Plugins  I have not tested them myself, but descriptions are promising16:20
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Navortylp: ok, found "locally saved OSM POIs/Bugs" which sounds like what I'm after....16:30
Navbut how do I get things in there....16:31
Navalso, my phone is HORRIBLY unresponsive running osmand...16:32
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Navortylp: ok, I can create pois on the map (dialog is waaaaaaaaaay too verbose) but I can't see anything to import them16:35
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ortylpNav: sorry, I cannot help you, I have not used it.  You can load a .gpx file by copying it to a predefined directory.  OSMAnd picks it up from there so that you can display/follow the track as additional layer on the map16:38
NavHmm, I need it as editable pois16:39
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Morpog_PCis the slush Jolla talk recording now available anywhere?18:37
Morpog_PCi couldn'tr watch it with audio back then18:38
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ortylpMorpog_PC: I have seen only the video played after the talk18:40
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louisdkI still can't find any proper use for a tablet. The only reason would be to save battery life on my Jolla Phone. On the other hand, the tablet is wi-fi only and at home I mostly use my computers for stuff.18:57
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Stskeepslouisdk: if you load sufficient amount of gigabytes of Pingu on it, it becomes very useful with children.19:00
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Nc_^19:05
louisdkStskeeps, I don't have children trough.19:06
Stskeepsif you can ssh in and remote control the tablet, even better.19:06
louisdk;)19:06
Stskeeps:P19:06
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louisdkStskeeps, my Jolla Phones does also have SSH and I'll have a qwerty keyboard for it to do hacking on the go :)19:11
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dunplocusf, server?19:15
dunplouisdk,  :)19:16
secThanks for picking Intel19:17
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secStskeeps: are there plans to open source currently closed components?19:25
secSuch as mentioned here: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2mx9o8/jollas_tablet_smashes_the_1m_crowdfunding_barrier/cm925mz19:25
dunpnext million?19:26
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juhajI'm thinking about replacing an old Nokia N9 with Jolla. Anything I would come to miss from N9? How well does OpenVPN work on Jolla?22:00
KabouikI'm trying to find the benckmarks Rcolistete did on the Jolla compared to Nexus, N9 and other devices22:03
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KabouikIt's on TMO but I can't find it, anyone know which thread it is?22:03
KabouikIt was with mathPlotLib or Num.py but I don't find the benchmarks in the threads22:03
cryoratjuhaj, only cli :(22:05
Kabouikhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1442696 got it22:05
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ninnnujuhaj: I kinda missed Opera Mobile (the older version that didn't do orientation...), but Webchat is rather okay. Quick googleing says openvpn works at least on command line, apparently there's some gui for it, too.22:10
stephgjuhaj: you'll miss NFC, 5GHz wireless and the amoled screen. Apart from that, everything is a bazillion times better22:11
keithzgIs there a decent GUI for OpenVPN yet? I remember running it successfully from the command line, but at the time there wasn't any other way, and it's been a long time since I tried to check.22:13
* keithzg 's N9's NFC died about a year ago anyways, heh22:14
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* stephg still has two n9s infront of him, one cracked running nemo and one backup should something happen to his beloved jolla22:18
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stephganyway, is bedtiem22:18
stephg'night folks!22:18
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ahjolinnahttp://www.thejollablog.com/still-get-100e-discount-buying-jolla/  Here's how get a Jolla phone for only 150€!23:21
ahjolinnadamn the discount is not working any more23:21
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Acceanswer is Canada23:31
Acceso canada and australia were added, nice23:31
coderusnow waiting for discount in other countries outside EU23:40
coderusdear Jolla, we also want to play in your games23:40
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paviGues a silly question , why the hell does the phone keep popping up "Select Internet connection" when actually its already connected via Wifi ? I cant find any setting which fixes the phone to wifi and not bug me everytime with the popup.23:48
pavihttps://together.jolla.com/question/53124/option-to-disable-the-select-internet-connection-popup/ has an explanation which I dont understand23:48
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tigelipavi: it popups when agps-data is downloaded (agps is implemented inside the cellular modem) if you do not have enabled the cellular to be used automatically23:51
tigelipavi: in the future (next update) it will not popup anymore if user has disabled cellular on purpose23:52
pavitigeli, I have disabled cellular data infact I didnt use it but yes I am using a maps app so it has something to do with it ?23:52
tigelipavi: yes, agps-data is fetched over cellular.. that's why it "asks" you to enable cellular (it just shows both wlan and cellular which is just wrong)23:53
tigelipavi: so, in the future it will not show it if you have disabled cellular data and you open maps23:53
pavitigeli, ahh ok yes now I understood , so it shouldnt ask for wifi at all , it should scream for cellular data23:54
tigeliit also means that getting gps fix takes bit longer if there is no cached agps data23:54
tigelipavi: yes23:54
tigeliit is confusing23:54
pavitigeli,  I havent yet updated my cellular data but I have used the maps and it got a very accurate fix indoors23:55
tigelieven it would ask for cellular when connected to wlan..23:55
pavihow was that possible ?23:55
tigeliit would be confusing23:55
tigelipavi: wlan-positioning23:55
paviHow could wlan give location info ? ( a bit surprised )23:55
paviIn a browser on laptop if I allow location it goes to another city which had my ISP23:56
tigelipavi: here-services has database about wlan ssid's and their latitude/longitude data23:56
tigelipavi: android, ios, wp.. each collect data about wlan ssid's and send them to these databases with gps-data23:57
pavitigeli, ohh yeah I forgot about it. Yes23:57
paviSpying :D23:57
paviAnd they give it to NSA23:57
paviso cool23:57
tigeli:)23:57
tigelilast time I moved.. maps pointer me to my old apartment for like 3 weeks23:57
tigelidue my wifis23:57
dunpjust randomize mac-address23:57
pavirandomize mac address of what ? my router?23:58
tigeliwell, I'm not bothered nsa-knowing my ssid (tigeli) :D23:58
tigelidunp: you would have to it like daily basis23:59
dunpi have custom mac on my routers :)23:59
tigeli+do23:59
dunpopenwrt :)23:59
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pavitigeli, now that you have mentioned the string "nsa" on a IRC channel , their bot will record your name and add it to spy list . :P Complete monotoring of you , me and even dunp  will start from now :D23:59

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