#jollamobile log for Friday, 2014-11-28

*** cristi has quit IRC00:00
*** dunp has joined #jollamobile00:00
*** roboro has quit IRC00:00
*** roboro has joined #jollamobile00:01
*** the_mgt_ has joined #jollamobile00:19
*** the_mgt_ has joined #jollamobile00:19
*** Skorpy has joined #jollamobile00:20
*** the_mgt has quit IRC00:23
*** the_mgt_ is now known as the_mgt00:23
*** phaeron has quit IRC00:31
*** louisdk has quit IRC00:32
*** roboro has quit IRC00:34
*** phdeswer has quit IRC00:34
*** inte has joined #jollamobile00:36
*** _inte_ has quit IRC00:39
*** boom1992 has quit IRC00:41
*** FlameReaper-PC has joined #jollamobile01:03
*** Dag0b3rt` has joined #jollamobile01:14
*** Dag0b3rt has quit IRC01:17
*** FlashAsparagus has quit IRC01:32
*** ninnnu has quit IRC01:32
*** ninnnu has joined #jollamobile01:32
*** FlashAsparagus has joined #jollamobile01:33
*** Kabouik_ has quit IRC01:34
*** h4PPYC4T has joined #jollamobile01:45
*** Behold has quit IRC01:48
*** pXd has quit IRC01:48
*** Swan_Z|pc has joined #jollamobile01:52
*** djkinetic has quit IRC02:24
*** mkosola has quit IRC02:25
*** Acce has quit IRC02:25
*** Acce has joined #jollamobile02:25
*** djkinetic has joined #jollamobile02:26
*** mkosola has joined #jollamobile02:26
*** msava has quit IRC02:26
*** jonwil has quit IRC02:28
*** KaiRo_Mozilla has quit IRC02:37
*** zhxt is now known as zhxt_work02:39
bef0rdhttp://matasano.com/research/eko2014_jolla.pdf02:51
*** natunen has joined #jollamobile03:37
*** Morpog_PC has joined #jollamobile03:44
covoxbef0rd: very cool03:52
*** Swan_Z|pc has quit IRC03:55
*** FlashAsparagus has quit IRC04:04
*** Sailor11736 has quit IRC04:19
*** reviewjolla_J has quit IRC04:22
*** Sailor11736 has joined #jollamobile04:23
*** martyone has joined #jollamobile05:15
*** vode has joined #jollamobile05:17
*** natunen has quit IRC05:25
*** Nc_ has joined #jollamobile05:31
*** crazy_imp has quit IRC05:33
*** martyone has quit IRC05:33
*** crazy_imp has joined #jollamobile05:34
*** pXd has joined #jollamobile05:41
*** h4PPYC4T has quit IRC05:43
*** spiiroin has quit IRC05:53
*** PeperJohnny has joined #jollamobile05:54
*** PeperJohnny has joined #jollamobile05:55
*** h4PPYC4T has joined #jollamobile05:55
*** pXd has quit IRC05:58
*** Pat_o has joined #jollamobile06:08
*** radekp has joined #jollamobile06:17
*** rainemak has quit IRC06:21
*** rainemak has joined #jollamobile06:22
*** spiiroin has joined #jollamobile06:29
*** PeperJohnny has quit IRC06:29
*** vode has quit IRC06:30
*** spiiroin has quit IRC06:33
*** FlameReaper has joined #jollamobile06:33
*** gexc-phone has joined #jollamobile06:35
*** thessy has joined #jollamobile06:35
*** spiiroin has joined #jollamobile06:37
gexc-phoneFriday for update?06:40
*** Amber_ has joined #jollamobile06:41
*** Sail0r has joined #jollamobile06:43
Stskeepsnever update on fridays06:43
Stskeeps:P06:43
*** spiiroin has quit IRC06:44
*** thessy has quit IRC06:44
gexc-phone😲06:47
*** Amber_ has quit IRC06:47
salyavinWhy not  more time to fix your phone06:47
*** Amber_ has joined #jollamobile06:47
*** AL13N has quit IRC06:50
*** spiiroin has joined #jollamobile06:56
*** pXd has joined #jollamobile07:06
*** beidl has quit IRC07:08
*** h4PPYC4T has quit IRC07:10
*** rainemak has quit IRC07:11
*** rainemak has joined #jollamobile07:12
*** Nc_ has quit IRC07:14
*** h4PPYC4T has joined #jollamobile07:19
*** pXd has quit IRC07:22
*** furikku has joined #jollamobile07:25
*** thessy has joined #jollamobile07:26
*** rainemak has quit IRC07:29
*** Amber_ has quit IRC07:29
*** rainemak has joined #jollamobile07:29
*** roboro has joined #jollamobile07:31
*** Vilkz_mobile has joined #jollamobile07:31
*** Sequenced_ has quit IRC07:33
*** Sequenced has joined #jollamobile07:33
*** rainemak has quit IRC07:34
*** martyone has joined #jollamobile07:34
*** rainemak has joined #jollamobile07:38
*** Vilkz_mobile has left #jollamobile07:50
*** FlameReaper has quit IRC07:51
*** Xeno_PL has joined #jollamobile07:52
TofeStskeeps: tss, I don't see what could go wrong :p07:53
*** lainwir3d has joined #jollamobile07:54
TofeI'm currently having problems receiving mms on 1.0.8 sailfish, has the mms stack been improved in 1.1.0 ?07:55
*** jonwil has joined #jollamobile07:55
Tofeor do I directly follow the troubleshooting steps for mms described on tjc07:55
Stskeepsit has typically07:55
Tofeok good; then I'll give it a try, anyway the next update should not be far away now07:57
*** jesze has joined #jollamobile07:57
*** gabriel9|work has joined #jollamobile08:00
*** kjokinie has quit IRC08:03
lainwir3dhi o/08:03
*** Blizzz has joined #jollamobile08:04
*** gabriel9|work has quit IRC08:09
*** gabriel9 has joined #jollamobile08:09
Wntbef0rd: interesting presentation, thanks for sharing!08:10
*** Blizzz has quit IRC08:11
TofeIs that presentation the same as one we saw on TMO some time ago ?08:12
Tofestill, very interesting testing and hacking.08:14
*** kjokinie has joined #jollamobile08:20
*** faiden has quit IRC08:23
*** sameo has joined #jollamobile08:23
*** Blizzz has joined #jollamobile08:24
*** kjokinie has quit IRC08:26
*** breakpointz has joined #jollamobile08:30
*** faiden has joined #jollamobile08:30
*** breakpointz has left #jollamobile08:31
*** mkosola1 has joined #jollamobile08:34
*** daitheflu has joined #jollamobile08:34
*** HtheB has joined #jollamobile08:37
*** mkosola has quit IRC08:38
*** kjokinie has joined #jollamobile08:39
*** FlashAsparagus has joined #jollamobile08:42
*** hankeypancake has joined #jollamobile08:45
*** FlashAsparagus has quit IRC08:46
*** Amber_ has joined #jollamobile08:48
*** wazd has joined #jollamobile08:49
*** narchie has quit IRC08:51
*** cristi has joined #jollamobile08:53
*** Kabouik has joined #jollamobile08:54
*** narchie has joined #jollamobile08:57
HtheBStskeeps: hi08:58
Stskeepsnmoo08:58
stephgbef0rd: that's cool reading08:59
*** kjokinie has quit IRC09:00
*** kjokinie has joined #jollamobile09:01
*** Vilkz_mobile has joined #jollamobile09:03
*** martyone has quit IRC09:04
*** martyone has joined #jollamobile09:06
*** phaeron has joined #jollamobile09:09
*** kjokinie has quit IRC09:09
*** martyone has quit IRC09:11
*** Sailor11736 has quit IRC09:14
*** Blizzz has quit IRC09:14
trigpointis there a way to turn off the volume nag thing?09:17
alteregotrigpoint: It does it once every boot I believe09:19
*** martyone has joined #jollamobile09:20
*** Amber_ has quit IRC09:22
*** r0kk3rz has joined #jollamobile09:22
HtheBnmoo?09:23
TofeHtheB: I guess it's a kind of morning moo09:24
HtheBi thought only cows moo'ed :pp09:25
*** kjokinie has joined #jollamobile09:29
*** rainemak has quit IRC09:31
*** Vilkz_mobile has quit IRC09:31
*** rainemak has joined #jollamobile09:32
*** blueboxthief has joined #jollamobile09:32
*** Vilkz_mobile has joined #jollamobile09:33
*** kjokinie1 has joined #jollamobile09:38
*** kjokinie has quit IRC09:38
lainwir3dhmmm, the funding is increasing too slowly :-/09:39
lainwir3dI'm afraid we won't get to 1.750.00009:40
lainwir3dI want that split screen :'(09:40
*** blueboxthief has quit IRC09:40
SK_workme too09:40
*** jmlich has joined #jollamobile09:41
*** blueboxthief has joined #jollamobile09:43
*** blueboxthief has quit IRC09:43
*** blueboxthief has joined #jollamobile09:43
TofeThe split screen will eventually come I guess, but we may have much longer to wait, as ressources won't be put on that in priority09:47
HtheBlainwir3d: i want shit screen :(09:48
lainwir3dshit screen ? What is that ?  A brown screen ?09:49
lainwir3dwhich smells bad09:49
*** blueboxthief has quit IRC09:52
HtheBhaha09:54
HtheBsplit screen, shit screen, they just are all the same :P09:54
HtheBthey are just all the same* :P09:54
HtheBwe need at least: multi screen09:54
*** blueboxthief has joined #jollamobile09:55
RaYmAnI'm sort of curious what will actually change if we get to 1.5mill... Different MicroSD controller?10:01
Stskeepsbill gates shows up on stage?10:02
*** martyone has quit IRC10:03
SK_workRaYmAn: pay license to Samsung10:06
RaYmAnah10:06
RaYmAnthat makes sense then10:06
*** martyone has joined #jollamobile10:06
RaYmAnI was confused because specwise the controller seems to fully support it10:07
*** Blizzz has joined #jollamobile10:07
*** phaeron has quit IRC10:08
*** phaeron1 has joined #jollamobile10:08
*** tbr-foo has quit IRC10:08
pp_or tuxera10:08
RaYmAnugh, so it's not for sdcard support, it's just for exFat?10:09
pp_would explain :-)10:09
RaYmAnyeah.10:09
pp_if only the industry did something else :-)10:10
Stskeepsremember that us geeks have very different perception of what is possible and what's not when it comes to sdxc..10:10
*** rainemak has quit IRC10:10
AcceI pay you, you pay me, we're a happy industry10:10
*** rainemak has joined #jollamobile10:10
Stskeepsnot to mention better sd card support in os..10:10
Accesing it with this melody: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixVfNgGe0ro10:11
*** rainemak has quit IRC10:16
*** rainemak has joined #jollamobile10:17
r0kk3rzif you claim support, people assume its 'plug n play'10:17
r0kk3rzcurrently large sd cards is not plug and play10:17
r0kk3rzbut it does suck that the issue with sxdc isnt a technical one, but a shitty proprietary licence one10:18
*** gexc-phone has quit IRC10:19
RaYmAneven more so since it's more of a patent problem now since samsung has a public GPL driver for exfat.10:20
*** rainemak has quit IRC10:22
*** rainemak has joined #jollamobile10:23
*** Lipevakala_ has joined #jollamobile10:24
Accewish few micro distributors would appear10:25
*** Lipevakala has quit IRC10:26
*** MBavagnoli has joined #jollamobile10:28
*** arcean has joined #jollamobile10:35
*** blueboxthief has quit IRC10:36
*** eleroux has joined #jollamobile10:40
*** eleroux1 has joined #jollamobile10:40
*** blueboxthief has joined #jollamobile10:42
*** blueboxthief1 has joined #jollamobile10:43
lainwir3dthat would be nice indeed10:44
*** eleroux has quit IRC10:45
*** blueboxthief has quit IRC10:47
*** kjokinie has joined #jollamobile10:48
r0kk3rzor people stu10:51
r0kk3rzstop supporting propriatary standards10:51
r0kk3rzits so backwards "hey heres a standard for everyone to use so stuff works together"10:51
r0kk3rz"oh btw, everyone needs to pay us for being awesome"10:52
*** kjokinie2 has joined #jollamobile10:52
*** kjokinie1 has quit IRC10:52
*** kjokinie has quit IRC10:52
lainwir3dhehe10:54
kimmolihttp://xkcd.com/927/10:54
lainwir3dhehe, I know this one :)10:55
*** pXd has joined #jollamobile10:57
jonwilUltimately it comes down to the fact that SD card makers and device makers need to use something supported by Windows (the most popular OS) and in the cases where good old FAT cant handle it, ExFat is your only option.10:58
jonwilForcing end users to install, say, an Ext2 driver or whatever just wont work for a mass-market product10:58
jonwillike an SDXC card10:59
*** h4PPYC4T has quit IRC11:00
Pawkydoes anyone in here know anything about the indiegogo campain?11:02
*** cristi has quit IRC11:03
lainwir3dwhat indiegogo campaign ?11:03
PawkyI bought one tablet perk for like $204 but later updates from the site having more perks, also one stating $20 shipment "for those who forgot to buy it with their tablet perk"11:03
lainwir3doh11:04
lainwir3ddid you add 20$ for the shipping in your 204$ perk ?11:04
PawkyWell, I didn't by any extra shipment... what will that lead to in the end, I am a future owner of a tablet located in Finland?11:04
lainwir3dif you didn't, you need to get the $20 perk11:04
Teemufinland is a good place to be11:04
Pawkybut is it really my problem they didn't include it?...11:04
lainwir3dIt was written everywhere actually11:05
TeguI wonder why it's separated if there basically is no other option11:05
PawkyThey cannot sell a tablet without including any form of shipment in my oppinion.11:05
lainwir3deven on the 204$ perk page11:05
Pawkyas they do not have any store to where I will be able to fetch it.. hence they MUST send it anyway.11:05
suosaaskiIIRC you can go buy the shipment separately11:05
lainwir3dyeah, just logistics I guess11:05
Pawkybut its sheer stupidity11:05
*** cxl000 has joined #jollamobile11:05
PawkyI have never EVER been able to buy a product online without any shipment11:06
Pawkyso, what will it lead to in the end?11:06
Pawkyif I am not to buy the extra shipment?11:06
Stskeepsthis is an indiegogo campaign, not a shop, fwiw..11:06
lainwir3dI guess they just wanted the shipment to appear separately on the page, that's all11:06
Stskeepsbut if you're confused, ask a comment on the page11:06
Jonniheh, even I had to order shipping seperately, as I didnt figure out how to add 20$ when I ordered the thingie.11:06
tbralso it says on the page to add 20 for shipping11:06
PawkyStskeeps: fair enough..11:06
Pawkybut what happens if I don't?11:06
lainwir3dit's just a donation then :P11:07
Pawkywhat will the legal result be?11:07
Pawkylainwir3d: no, that cannot be11:07
Teemuyou can legally buy a product and not have it shipped11:07
tbrPawky: the result will be that they can't ship you the tablet and will ask you to pay the 2011:07
Pawkyhow is jolla to deal with everybody not buying it?11:07
Teemucan happen in a lot of web stores11:07
Teemunot only this indiegogo11:07
Jonniwell most likely they will ask for shipment when device is ready to be shipper, or reimbursh you if your not paying... but care can answer those questions if you have probs.11:08
Pawkytbr: like, sending an e-mail? an invoce?...11:08
suosaaskiIt really says on the page before you click on the perk. "Please add $20 for shipping by adding an "additional gift" of @40 on the next page.11:08
PawkyJonni: Nah.. no probs, just curious about it, thats all..11:08
tbrPawky: that is left to them and I can not answer that question.11:08
*** mkollaro has joined #jollamobile11:08
Teemumodern webstores tend to automagically add shipping but this is really not a legal problem11:08
suosaaski$20, not @40 :D11:08
Teemuyou're supposed to look at what you're doing and they _did_ provide cues in the text11:09
kimmoli"placing the perk you agree this and that"11:09
suosaaskiAlso, scrolling down... "Forgot to add $20 for shipping your Jolla Tablet? No worries, just get this Perk and use the same shipping information as with the Tablet Perk"11:09
Pawkywell.. but you must agree upon the stupidity selling an item without including any shipment having the option to exclude it if need be.11:09
Teemuthey just didn't auto-add shipping and many many many great many people just clicked blindingly fast "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY"11:09
Jonnibut true, order experience could have been easier if shipping would have been automaticly included in there.11:10
*** HtheB has quit IRC11:10
Pawkysuosaaski: yeah, I know and I will, but i was just pondering about the net result of it all..11:10
Teemuyes, auto-adding shipping would have been good11:10
PawkyJonni: yeah, now I have to buy it separately again using my card..11:10
kimmolibut then the price had to start from 209 not 18911:10
Pawkykimmoli: well that will be the net price anyway11:10
kimmoliyes, but is marketing...11:11
kimmoliit could be 209 including "FREE SHIPPING"11:11
Pawkyor are Jolla trying to make it sound cheaper than it is?..  I11:11
kimmolithere is no such thing as free shipping11:11
Pawkyno, I haven't spoken about free shiping, but shiping included.11:11
*** Lipevakala_ has quit IRC11:12
tbrsame difference11:12
lainwir3dMaybe it's a limitation of indiegogo too11:12
Pawkybut thanks for answering my questions, i will just have to buy another perk then...11:12
lainwir3dI don't really know indiegogo :/11:12
kimmoliIGG is not a shop11:12
kimmolineither is kickstarter11:12
Pawkyno, but the pricing should have included  shipping at least for europe11:12
kimmolitypically those say "includes shipping in US", add $100 for europe11:12
suosaaskiare europeans more likely to forget to add the shipping? :)11:13
Pawkywell it will do so automatically when you give the delivery address11:13
Pawkysuosaaski: no... but i believe the pricing will differ when including the world...11:13
kimmolion kickstarter. dont actually know does iGG has such feature at all?11:13
lainwir3dI agree that tohkbd did it better with kickstarter11:13
Pawkykimmoli: well i believe its jolla who puts in what pricing for which items.11:14
lainwir3ddisplaying stock price, and once your "order" it it displays shipping price in addition11:14
*** Lipevakala_ has joined #jollamobile11:15
kimmoliworst thing would have been that there is nothing about on shipping on IGG, and when it is time to get the thing, campaign owner wants $20 for shipping.11:15
PawkyI still don't know what to do with the tablet though... i mean its exactly the same as the phone... some pixels less or more give and take...11:15
Pawkyactually, you cannot even use it for 3g...11:15
Pawkyso its a lesser unit compared to the phone11:15
kimmoli(unless it hits 2.5M$)11:16
kimmoliwonder will that 3g have voice then?11:16
Pawkyyeah, so i read.. coudln't figure out if it meant jolla wants people to just give them more money or if that means if they sell more tablets?11:16
*** cristi has joined #jollamobile11:17
*** jonwil has quit IRC11:17
Pawkykimmoli: i presume you will be able to usea earphones, as with most others..11:17
PawkyWhat the tablet really needs to differentiate is a wacom pen.11:17
PawkyI have it on one of my tablets, and its a great extra feature11:18
nazanincoderus: ping11:22
*** Lipevakala_ has quit IRC11:23
SpeedEvilPen is unlikely - it requires actual hardware11:24
*** Lipevakala_ has joined #jollamobile11:24
SpeedEvilPawky: I think what it means is that the tablet has existing hardware in order to do 3.5G. This is not approved, and the cheapest way to get it approved will take some time - hence the mention of (IIRC) Q3 2015 software upgrades11:24
*** mkollaro has quit IRC11:25
*** FlashAsparagus has joined #jollamobile11:25
SpeedEvilIf the milestone is hit - they'll push approval through much faster11:25
SpeedEvilI would expect otherwise - Q3/2015 or earlier if the milestone is hit - the option for existing owners to upgrade in software11:26
SpeedEvilThis is all speculation based on the page.11:26
*** daitheflu has quit IRC11:26
*** Lipevakala_ has quit IRC11:29
*** jesze has quit IRC11:29
*** h4PPYC4T has joined #jollamobile11:29
abSpeedEvil: I think they are a bit unclear but basically what they say is that for +$30 you'd get a model with 3.5G hardware but it will not be usable until that software update will come11:30
*** Lipevakala_ has joined #jollamobile11:30
abSpeedEvil: which makes sense as they have to certify it11:30
abSpeedEvil: however, this does not mean that original hardware has 3.5G hardware bits included11:30
*** pXd has quit IRC11:32
SpeedEvilAIUI - it's likely as it's integrated.11:32
SpeedEvilIn the chipset11:32
PawkyI agree11:32
SpeedEvilI should look into this in more detail11:32
*** Porkepix has quit IRC11:32
SpeedEvilBut that is my understanding. It will require a minimal number of external components - certainly not $30s worth to do it11:33
Pawkywhat happens if Jolla doesn't deliver a tablet, will they still have the money?11:33
Pawkyor do they have to prove to indiegogo they actually have a tablet before getting the money?11:33
SpeedEvilThey do not have to prove that.11:33
SpeedEvilYou basically need to show some videos or stuff with at least partially working hardware11:34
Pawkyso.. i can just put up a to good to be true gizmo and then... oops cannot deliver?11:34
leinircommon misconception about crowdsourcing campaigns - you have not bought a tablet, you have given money to someone, who promises that if they are successful in producing a product, they will deliver one to you11:34
leiniressentially yes11:34
SpeedEvilleinir: The views of lawmakers differ around the world - in many places for example for import duties, it is _not_ a gift.11:34
Pawkyhmm... i thought the very thing was a guarante "if you deliver you have money" type of deal. To which they should be able to get funding to produce the product11:34
Pawkythey cannot put VAT on a gift11:35
SpeedEvilThey get the money before delivering goods.11:35
SpeedEvilHowever - I would be astonished if this product hadn't been largely done before the campaign11:36
*** zhxt_work has quit IRC11:36
Pawkythats sad, and will make me much more hesitant to pay for crowd soured things...11:36
leinirin essence yes - you are putting your trust in the people you give money to, so if they are trustworthy, then you're fine11:36
Pawkysounds pretty bad... the marketing strategy should be the money will be reserved when until the terms are met11:37
leinirbut if you don't feel you can trust the people running the campaign, the same applies as to any deal made in a dark alleyway11:37
SpeedEvilPawky: then you restrict ks/... to only people who can get loans11:37
abSpeedEvil: given that the funding round ends on December 12th, they have enough time to order a different chipset version. There are four of them: http://ark.intel.com/compare/80271,76759,80270,7841611:37
SpeedEvilPawky: or have existing funding and are purely using it to advertise11:37
Pawkywell.. as you might know, companies many times underestimate the total cost of a product, and in the end they might not be able to deliver11:37
*** reviewjolla_J has joined #jollamobile11:38
PawkySpeedEvil: yes, but who wouldn't be able to get a loan when you can prove you have the funding?11:38
*** cristi has quit IRC11:38
Pawkyif you cannot get this, the business might be shady11:38
SpeedEvilPawky: shitloads of people11:39
SpeedEvilPawky: you're making the assumption that banks have people who are technically able to assess products.11:39
Pawkyshitloads of shady companies..11:39
SpeedEvilThey do not.11:39
PawkyI see it as preselling the product, getting stock orders..11:39
SpeedEvilKickstarter is not only used by large established companies.11:40
PawkySpeedEvil: no, I am assuming they can see people are willing to buy stuff and have given money ahead for it.11:40
SpeedEvilPawky: If the buisness can't get the money until they ship - then you need a source of loans11:41
SpeedEvilraising the above concerns11:41
abPawky: I don't think they didn't know that. What this crowdfunding round gives them is actually a leverage when talking to real investors11:41
Pawkyyes, and crowd sourcing could be the middle man for it :-)11:41
Pawkyby having reserved money, all anybody has to do is to show the bank the money and orders exist, and now they can be in on it funding the product to deliver to all those happy customers :-)11:42
SpeedEvilFor 'proper' buisnesses that can raise capital - KS is just advertising and helping to raise confidence of investors and reducing costs of money11:42
* Nav thinks Pawky is completely missing the point of crowdfunding11:42
abexactly11:42
SpeedEvilPawky: you're again assuming that the bank is willing to take the risk that the company can't deliver. And can accurately assess this risk.11:43
Pawkyno, many times you have an idea, but maybe you don't know the market11:43
SpeedEvilPawky: plus - banks simply do not do this for small amounts of money.11:43
Pawkywith crowd sourcing you can get people who like the idea reserv money to buy it once you can ship11:43
PawkySpeedEvil: that must probably be country dependent then...11:44
SpeedEvilReally?11:44
SpeedEvilName one country in which you can find a technically competent assessment of a technology project manufacturer asking for a $20K loan.11:44
Pawkyso, if you have prepaid orders, you can lend upon it11:44
SpeedEvilRoutinely11:44
PawkySpeedEvil: Europe11:45
SpeedEvillolz11:45
abPawky: in this case people already paid through IGG11:45
SpeedEvilI'm in the UK - and it doesn't work that way here11:45
abPawky: there is no "reserve", money were paid.11:45
Pawkyyes, but if Jolla will go bust in christmass or suddenly get the tab for all software development, they might never create a product, and your money is gone.11:46
Pawkyab: blatantly not, but this could be the very way crowd sourcing is to work.11:47
SpeedEvilAnd the chances of going bust are higher if they had to go to investors to get the money for the crowdsourced products11:47
Pawkyand still less if they will have the orders reserved once they can deliver11:47
Pawkymy version will make more people dare to invest11:47
Pawky"money back if no product"11:47
SpeedEvilAnd would make ks/... useless for small companies.11:48
*** FlashAsparagus has quit IRC11:48
Pawkythat is not true11:48
Pawkyits all about money in, money out11:48
*** FlashAsparagus has joined #jollamobile11:48
Pawkyif you can lower the risk, the willingness to give loans increases dramaticaly11:48
*** zhxt_work has joined #jollamobile11:49
SpeedEvil_assuming_ the people who are giving the loan are willing and capable of assessing that risk.11:49
*** FlashAsparagus has quit IRC11:49
Pawkywell, its a bank...11:49
SpeedEvilAnd banks, in many countries simply won't do that - especially for small buisnesses.11:49
Pawkyand, of course its partially up to the company to convince the bank, which they can once they show the prepaid orders11:50
Pawkyyou don't have to sell it to banks, but investers..11:50
SpeedEvilbanks or other investors11:50
Pawkyinvestors will happily contribute11:50
SpeedEvilAnd take a cut11:50
Pawkythats part of their whole business idea11:50
Pawkybut of course11:50
*** Sequenced has quit IRC11:50
Pawkybut the less the risk, the less the cut11:50
*** martyone has quit IRC11:51
SpeedEvil_assuming_ the people who are giving the loan are willing and capable of assessing that risk.11:51
SpeedEvilAnd I'm out11:51
Pawky:-)11:51
*** KaIRC has joined #jollamobile11:52
*** pXd has joined #jollamobile11:53
*** h4PPYC4T has quit IRC11:55
SpeedEvilab: I don't see any mention of mobile support in any of those. Am I missing somthing?11:56
abSpeedEvil: that's my point, it is a separate chip11:57
SpeedEvilah11:57
SpeedEvilI thought it was integrated into the chipset11:57
*** cristi has joined #jollamobile12:00
*** h4PPYC4T has joined #jollamobile12:01
*** Nc_ has joined #jollamobile12:01
*** pXd has quit IRC12:03
*** hankeypancake has quit IRC12:05
*** Tomin has joined #jollamobile12:05
*** zhxt_work has quit IRC12:05
*** roboro has quit IRC12:06
*** roboro has joined #jollamobile12:06
*** FlashAsparagus has joined #jollamobile12:06
SpeedEvilhttp://thedroidguy.com/2014/05/intel-partners-rockchip-next-gen-atom-processors-android-tablets-92742 I may have been thinking of12:09
SpeedEvil'The quad-core SoFIA processors with integrated 3G modem is expected to ship out in the first half of next year alongside the version with the LTE modem.12:10
*** thessy has quit IRC12:11
mekluthat sounds a bit iffy :/12:12
meklua mobile modem integrated into a cpu doesn't sound too inviting to me12:12
SpeedEvilIt depends how it's done12:14
SpeedEvilIt can lead to unfortunate requirements on software12:14
SpeedEvilor it can basically be the 'high level' IP imported onto the chip, and running as a block not interacting with the processor12:15
pp_it can be pcie or usb in reality, I'd guess12:15
mekluyeah12:15
SpeedEvilActually integrating the modemo on board rather than adding a module lowers cost.12:15
SpeedEvilIn high volumes anyway12:15
SpeedEvilin-chip even more12:16
SpeedEvilhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ESP8266-Serial-WIFI-Wireless-TransceiveR-Module-Sender-Receiver-LWIP-AP-STA-New-/271596948485?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item3f3c708c05 I note12:16
SpeedEvilintegrated CPU+wifi for under 3 dollars12:16
SpeedEvilwith the ability to run your own code with gcc12:16
meklusays £3.9812:16
SpeedEvilyeah - not cheapest12:17
mekluwhich isn't exactly under 3 dollars12:17
*** Sailor11736 has joined #jollamobile12:17
SpeedEvilhttp://www.aliexpress.com/item/LA32A330J1N-BN44-00235B-power-board-In-stock-Best-price-and-good-service/637799775.html12:18
*** hankeypancake has joined #jollamobile12:18
*** emaj has joined #jollamobile12:19
PawkyI am quite amazed Jolla can put forwar "There are no back doors or anything third parties could use for monitoring your activity." when users have no control what so ever what the android apps are silently doing in the background...12:21
SpeedEvilAndroid apps have significantly less access to system functions than on android AIUI12:21
*** boom1992 has joined #jollamobile12:21
SpeedEvilConversely - this makes some apps not work even though the user might desire the function12:22
PawkySpeedEvil: so, exactly what information can the android apps get hold of?12:22
*** zhxt_work has joined #jollamobile12:22
SpeedEvilI haven't investigated this in detail12:23
Pawkyand how does a Jolla user limit this?12:23
TofeSpeedEvil: when I read this sentence, I think more of the qualcomm blobs than of the android apps, imho12:23
PawkyWell, its hard to investigate because its not stated anywhere...12:23
SpeedEvilWhatever the mobile solution chosen, it is basically certain that Jolla will not have full source of the modem12:24
TofeSpeedEvil: sure, I'm not saying there is a solution at the moment12:24
SpeedEvilIn principle, you can make your own open-source modem and get it approved.12:25
SpeedEvilThis will be quite expensive - I'd guess several millions - for a very very power hungry device12:25
TofeSpeedEvil: don't you get blocked by some licensing restrictions, some blocking patent? I'm not so sure it's even possible12:26
FireFlyPawky: AIUI the Android apps run in a translation layer not unlike wine, so it seems reasonable that they'd restrict/fake the result to some of the things apps request (like phone access and such). But I agree, it'd be nice to know in more detail12:27
PawkyI believe making it part of the Jolla device to give the user full control over the android environment will be a sheer uperhand to its competitors :-)12:28
TofeIndeed it would be nice to know more about how the OS interacts with the android VM -- at least what that can be disclosed.12:30
*** pXd has joined #jollamobile12:32
pp_it's not that difficult to trace aliendalvik :-)12:33
Armadillonazanin In the case you're doing the next TaskList QA on monday, I added a qa comment to describe what#s the current status. :-)12:33
nazaninArmadillo: thanks :)12:34
*** h4PPYC4T has quit IRC12:35
*** rainemak has quit IRC12:38
*** rainemak has joined #jollamobile12:39
*** dhbiker has joined #jollamobile12:44
*** bef0rd has quit IRC12:47
*** h4PPYC4T has joined #jollamobile12:48
*** phaeron1 has quit IRC12:50
*** pXd has quit IRC12:51
*** rainemak has quit IRC12:53
*** rainemak has joined #jollamobile12:53
*** vode has joined #jollamobile12:56
*** boom1992 has quit IRC12:57
Pawkymore one year into jolla being on the , and still nearly no usable sailfish apps in sight, could we safely conclude its a failure? Or are there tons of programmers out there at the launch state of their new cool apps that will revolutionize the world, to prove me wrong?12:59
Pawky(market)12:59
Nicd-"jolla being on the ,"?13:00
meklumarket13:00
Pawky:-)13:00
tadzik"no usable apps in sight"? A bit of an overstatement13:00
Nicd-I'm quite positive my weechat app will blow everyone's minds13:00
Pawkyyes, maybe a bit, but looking upon my phone most of them are android...13:00
tadzikI'm still waiting for that one >:(13:00
Nicd-that's why I haven't released it yet because everyone would die of excitement13:00
Pawkywhich wasn't really why I bought the phone.13:00
tadzikthat's the problem with you and your phone :P13:00
Pawkywell, if people mostly use it for android apps, then we must make this envoironment more controllable from a user perspective.13:02
*** kjokinie has joined #jollamobile13:02
Armadillofeel free to contribute many apps13:02
*** kjokinie2 has quit IRC13:02
Nicd-tadzik: weechat user?13:02
PawkyArmadillo: conclusion, If i do not contribute it will be a failure?13:03
PawkyMy question is, why do we not see more true sailfish apps?13:03
mekluno one can force people to develop applications13:03
ArmadilloPawky depends on the user specific needs13:03
Nicd-Pawky: too small userbase13:03
Pawkyis it because people are safing by creating android apps?13:04
mekluit seems like most 'apps' nowadays are just some shit frontends to web services anyway13:04
*** rZr is now known as RzR13:04
Armadillohave a look at the store13:04
tadzikNicd-: yeah13:04
Nicd-it's a chicken-and-egg problem13:04
*** Lipevakala_ has quit IRC13:04
Armadillothere were several news apps in the lats days13:04
Armadillolast13:04
Nicd-can't get users without apps and can't get apps without users13:04
tadzikyou can get apps with money13:04
PawkyNicd-: well, if it is, then my suspicions are right, it is a failure..13:04
Nicd-tadzik: you can't get money without users :P13:04
*** boom1992 has joined #jollamobile13:04
Pawkythen again, no apps, no users13:04
mekluit's probably got a bunch to do with the US plans as well...13:05
Nicd-Pawky: I would hardly call it a failure. the phone is selling in many markets, the company seems to be doing ok, the OS is progressing. all this from a very small company13:05
Pawkymaybe Jolla isn't making it interesting enough for programmers to start converting their apps to Sailfish?13:05
mekluthe lack of activity there isn't so great I'd say13:05
japa-fiI get deja-vu fromthe OS/2 days: Nobody bought OS/2 because there wan't any apps for it. Nobody developed apps because a) not too many users and B) "you can run the windows version in OS/2"13:05
PawkyNicd-: I am not talking about the phone, but about sailfish apps..13:05
japa-fiSo I'd say android compability is double edged sword for jolla13:05
mekludefinitely13:05
inzNobody bought OS/2 because you could get it for free from any expo13:06
Pawkyjapa-fi: exactly, spot on!13:06
*** msvb-lab has quit IRC13:06
Nicd-tadzik: you can download and compile it already, if you want13:06
Nicd-tadzik: just don't try to open buffers that you have closed in weechat... :)13:06
inzIt was nice to get 25-ish 3,5" floppies from IBM13:06
ArmadilloPawky if you're missing aps you could also mention on some TJC posts where users request new apps13:07
PawkyI thought lots of apps from the N9 and N900 would be converted into Sailfish, but nope...13:07
Armadillolol13:07
Pawkyinz: Well, i got it on a CD13:08
Armadillocomplaining is easy13:08
PawkyOS/2 did run Windows more stable than windows itself, funny...13:08
tadzikNicd-: where from?13:08
Nicd-tadzik: https://bitbucket.org/vincit/harbour-weechatrelay/overview13:08
PawkyArmadillo: complaining is easy, meaning?13:08
inzPawky, got it on a CD aswell (hence could re-use the floppies)13:09
*** Lipevakala has joined #jollamobile13:09
Pawkyinz: i believe i still have some windows 3.11 on like... 21 diskettes..13:09
ArmadilloPawky I don't know anyone who's developing for Sailfish on a professional level, so all of us are doing this in our free time13:09
Armadilloso complaining about not ported apps is easy, but porting itself takes a lot of time13:10
PawkyArmadillo: well, would i have written a program for the other phones I would of course have converted them. But its to easy to say "do it yourself if you complain".13:12
ArmadilloPawky I assume there are many open source app, which you can port even if you haven't written them yourself ;)13:12
PawkyI am just trying to find out the very reason why Sailfish still hasn't taken off..13:13
*** Shinryuu has joined #jollamobile13:13
Stskeepsit's not because we don't have gnumeric ported.13:13
PawkyArmadillo: true.. and that will be one more app... but hey... why aren't everybody doing it?...13:13
Armadillowell I think is currently on a much higher level than maemo, Meego, moblin or Tizen ever were13:13
Pawkyam I spotting a silent abandonment of the very OS?13:13
Armadilloand the tablet will bring more change for sure13:13
PawkyArmadillo: well, I believe it actually might not. Looking in my back mirror, the only thing I see is people mostly using android apps on the Jolla13:14
ArmadilloPawky because of no more free time, kids, work, family, reason ;)13:14
*** gexc-phone has joined #jollamobile13:14
*** msvb-lab has joined #jollamobile13:14
Pawkyand thats in an environment much less secure than a rooted android device with droidwall and XPrivacy13:14
PawkyArmadillo: well, you could sell the app...13:15
Armadillooh cmon13:15
Armadillothey are working on ecurity issues13:15
Armadillorome wasn't built in one day, thanks13:15
Pawkystill?13:15
*** gexc-phone has quit IRC13:16
PawkyThe very reason I sponsor Jolla, and sailfish is to give the control back to the user (or keep it there), which is one of Jollas great advantages should any programmer use it.13:16
pp_fingerterm is great!13:16
SK_workpp_: finger term is not great13:17
*** blueboxthief1 has quit IRC13:17
SK_worknot as great as the (now defunt) meegotouch terminal13:17
FireFlyFingerterm is decent13:17
SK_workdecent is the word13:17
FireFlytohkbd solves the input problem as far as I'm concerned, at least13:18
SK_workI hope13:18
FireFlyThat just leaves emulation and OS integration (clipboard)13:18
Armadillowhat's so bad about fingerterm?13:18
SK_workArmadillo: the kbd13:18
Armadillofor me the software keyboard is better than the sailfish native one13:18
FireFlyThe lack of good terminal emulation13:18
Armadilloin terms of fast key access13:19
FireFlyI think the fingerterm keyboard is all right13:19
FireFlyStill, for a terminal emulator physical keys will probably always be superior13:19
Armadillothat's my reason for tohkbd :D13:20
FireFlyMy biggest gripe is probably with the terminal emulation tbh13:20
FireFlyI've been meaning to do something about that..13:20
*** r0kk3rz_ has joined #jollamobile13:20
Armadillowhat I really don't like are the settings13:21
Armadillobut it has to be ported to a real sailfish app before this can be converted to Silica style I think?13:21
*** r0kk3rz has quit IRC13:22
Armadillocurrently also the Sailfish version is based on the odl meego components right?13:22
*** r0kk3rz_ is now known as r0kk3rz13:22
Armadilloold13:22
ggabrieljolla will need another perk if they want to reach 1.5m, unless they're expecting people to buy the micro distributor kit13:25
*** Porkepix has joined #jollamobile13:25
FireFlyArmadillo: there's a silica branch in the nemomobile/fingerterm repo if you're curious13:26
ArmadilloI already gave it a short view13:27
Armadilloalso forked it13:27
*** rainemak has quit IRC13:27
Armadillobut I won't have the time and skills to work too much on it13:27
*** zhxt has joined #jollamobile13:29
*** Shinryuu has quit IRC13:30
*** rainemak has joined #jollamobile13:30
*** Shinryuu has joined #jollamobile13:31
*** kjokinie has quit IRC13:34
*** sameo has quit IRC13:37
SpeedEvilLolz. 'We are planning to discontinue the Nokia Sync service on 5 December 2014. After 5 December 2014, you will not be able to access your data through the Nokia Sync service. We strongly encourage you to export and/or migrate your data from the service before this date. '13:38
SpeedEvilActually - checking it - somewhat not lolz - in principle it's available on the n9 which some here may ahve13:39
SpeedEvilerr - some here may be using it on13:39
*** rainemak has quit IRC13:40
*** r0kk3rz_ has joined #jollamobile13:43
*** r0kk3rz has quit IRC13:44
*** r0kk3rz_ is now known as r0kk3rz13:44
*** VDVsx has quit IRC13:44
*** rainemak has joined #jollamobile13:49
*** japa-fi has quit IRC13:49
*** kjokinie has joined #jollamobile13:51
*** mkollaro has joined #jollamobile13:53
*** javispedro has joined #jollamobile13:53
*** Sailor11736 has quit IRC13:54
*** japa-fi has joined #jollamobile13:55
*** VDVsx has joined #jollamobile13:59
*** FlashAsparagus has quit IRC13:59
*** FlashAsparagus has joined #jollamobile13:59
*** Swan|PC has joined #jollamobile14:00
*** Blizzz has quit IRC14:02
nazaninArmadillo: ping14:03
Armadillonazanin pong14:03
Armadillodon't tell me you found another bug :D14:03
*** blueboxthief has joined #jollamobile14:04
ArmadilloI don#t want to know it ;D14:04
nazaninArmadillo: :D14:04
nazaninwell, then, mmm :D14:04
*** FlashAsparagus has quit IRC14:04
nazaninArmadillo: it's a minor bug, not a rejection reason, you wanna know it now? :P14:04
Armadillonazanin sure ;)14:04
nazaninArmadillo: if the name of the task is a bit long, the text will overlap with the other task below it14:05
nazaninand things get mixed up14:05
Armadilloyes this is a known bug since the first ever release :D14:05
nazaninArmadillo: ah, ok, so I didn't suprise you, not good :D14:05
ArmadilloI have an issue to resolve and I'm to lazy to code own implementation of TextSwitch :D14:06
Armadillodevelopers hate surprises :D14:06
nazaninand I like to surprise them ^_^14:06
Armadilloanyway you're doing a great job, thanks ;)14:06
nazaninArmadillo: no problem :) it's not a big issue, good to have it on your to-do list to fix, though ;)14:07
ln-hey can i report an issue that may affect several apps, and apparently is not caught in QA?  (it's nothing dangerous though)14:07
*** eleroux1 has quit IRC14:08
*** beidl has joined #jollamobile14:08
pp_security@ ?14:08
ln-more like cosmetic@14:09
Armadillo^^14:09
ln-the SDK template for a new app adds a german localization, and if the author doesn't either remove it or actually localize into german, the .desktop file ends up having a line like "Name[de]=harbour-myapp"14:09
ln-so for anyone using their Jolla in german, the app name will be "harbour-myapp", not "My App" or whatever the author actually has intended.14:10
Armadilloo14:10
ArmadilloOo14:10
*** Nightmare__ has joined #jollamobile14:11
ln-the new Sail Raid game is an example of such.14:12
nazaninln-: thanks for reporting, I will check it with Sail Raid :)14:12
Armadilloconfirmed with Sail Raid14:13
Yanielln-: also of how important multitouch can be14:13
SK_worknazanin: A QA engineers enters in a bar, orders 9999999 beers, orders -1 beers, orders a "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" etc14:13
Yanielbecause it doesn't work there14:13
nazaninSK_work: oooooold :D14:13
SK_work^ testing Armadillo's app14:13
nazanin=^_^=14:13
Armadillo:P14:13
SK_workoh look, a text field14:14
SK_worklet's try DROP TABLE notes14:14
Armadilloyou should try tasks instead :P14:14
SK_work:D14:15
mekluSK_work: "I'll have NaN NULLs"14:17
*** Porkepix has quit IRC14:18
YanielSK_work: really?14:18
Armadillomy caldav account is going crazy14:18
*** phaeron has joined #jollamobile14:18
ArmadilloI have hundreds of calendars in the calendar app :D14:18
Yaniel:D14:19
SK_workmeklu: I prefer (INT_MAX +1) <unprintable characters>14:20
*** Sipu has joined #jollamobile14:20
*** Sipu has left #jollamobile14:22
*** beidl has quit IRC14:22
*** Behold has joined #jollamobile14:23
*** FlashAsparagus has joined #jollamobile14:24
*** wazd__ has joined #jollamobile14:25
*** wazd has quit IRC14:28
*** pawky|2 has joined #jollamobile14:31
*** TMavica has joined #jollamobile14:33
*** boom1992 has quit IRC14:35
pawky|2Jolla gave us phone owners a voutcher to be able to buy a phone at a heavy discount a short time ago. "Cool" I thought, "now I might be able to let a few of my friends go and buy one", then I started to think about how I was to convince them to give up their Android and iPhones and buy a Jolla instead. Lo and behold, I have actually come up with no argument what so ever why they should switch.14:36
pawky|2Lets try a few, " There are great many Jolla apps to use", nope14:36
pawky|2"jolla is a more stable platform with security and integrity in mind", nope14:36
Bysmyyr_UI is best in the market14:36
pawky|2"UI is the best on the market, but you will mostly use Android apps", nope14:37
FireFlyOne of my android-using friends tends to complain about Android's resource requirements14:37
FireFlywrt. RAM and such14:37
pawky|2Can anyone come up with any argument why users of other phones should switch to  Jolla?14:37
pawky|2FireFly: Im listening :-)14:37
NavBecause its not ios or android.14:38
NavGood enough for me :-)14:38
pawky|2"it's neither Andoid nor iPhone, and no apps to come with it", nope14:38
FireFlyI imagine Sailfish is far less resource-hungry--at least I haven't had any issues with the resonsiveness and the Jolla has comparatively weak specs (and is appropriately cheaper than the latest Andorid devices)14:38
FireFlyAndroid*14:38
Armadillobetter UI, better battery life, great community, hardware keyboard, exchangeable backplates, exchangable battery (although not available official :x)14:39
Bysmyyr_pawky|2: what android apps, I use 114:39
Beholddepends on what kind of user you are; as a programmer and Linux power user there's imo really no good alternative to Sailfish available on the market14:39
FireFlyOh yeah, battery life is a good point too14:39
Navpawky|2: dealing with apple or google is a deal breaker - I don't trust either of em14:39
*** HarhaanJohtaja has joined #jollamobile14:39
pawky|2FireFly: until using any app, and GPS that is...14:40
Beholdunlike Android, with Sailfish you actually get a real, full-fledged Linux distribution14:40
*** friese has joined #jollamobile14:40
Armadilloyou can update without those rom shit14:40
pawky|2So, only hackers like us who might spend more time on the CLI will use this phone?14:40
FireFlyThere's also something to be said about "actual multitasking" vs. "application may or may not be using resources"14:40
pawky|2FireFly: How many times do you truly multitask with your phone?14:41
FireFlyAdmittedly not as much as I did with the N90014:41
pawky|2without seeing your battery vanish like beer in a beer tap14:41
FireFlyHuh?14:41
Teemuwhen I'm having a phone call I really really really wish the navigator app would damn keep working14:41
FireFlyWell, I usually use at least IRC+browser and perhaps music player in parallel14:41
pawky|2So, in the end we have a great product but no argument what so ever why the masses should start using Jolla phones and tablets?14:42
*** kjokinie has quit IRC14:42
*** kjokinie has joined #jollamobile14:42
Armadilloplease can you sell your phone and never join this channel again?14:42
Armadillothat would be really great :)14:43
pawky|2I believe there is a market for the masses, if Jolla will turn into a more secure integrity friendly phone for the masses.14:43
sharpnelipawky|2: All of this grows the app ecosystem slowly. So in the future it might become a viable alternative for masses.14:43
fluxpersonally I think Jolla GUI is a lot less annoying than both Android and iPhone14:43
Yanielpawky|2: wow, can I add that to my collection of null statements?14:43
pawky|2Armadillo: It seems far more easy to give you a blindfold for the obvious... no wait you are already wearing it...14:43
fluxbut I don't really think there is any other reason for masses. it's not the best platform for running Android apps, while that's what people will want to do.14:43
pdanekHey all, does anyone here use Tutanota webmail?14:44
Armadillopawky|2 sorry, no blindfold, just checked this :)14:45
pawky|2Armadillo: blindfold, for the blatantly obvious...14:45
pawky|2I believe to make Jolla something to last, these are the very issues we all have to think about.14:46
ArmadilloI'm really wondering why the hell you are using this OS14:46
Yanieldude, you really should try politics14:46
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC14:46
Armadillohaha +114:46
pawky|2Even though the user base is strong, I doubt it is big enough for a long lasting future.14:47
Armadilloreally?14:47
Armadillothanks for this information, never recognized this14:47
pawky|2I believe we all users, programmers inventors, sales people have to rethink about where the future is, to make it a long lasting success14:48
pawky|2That's why I am asking the community this simple question, what arguments is one to use to make people buy a Jolla to use instead of Android/iPhone.14:49
pawky|2We do have an opportunity to differentiate if we start focusing on parts the other do not have, such total control over your phone, security, integrity etc..14:50
Armadilloinstead of complaining whole the time you could listen to the answers we gave above14:50
pawky|2Today though this is still unexploited territory14:50
Armadillobut I'm expecting too much14:50
r0kk3rzparts of the world are starting to wake up to the whole surveillance thing14:51
pawky|2Armadillo: Which aswers? the ha ha? the sell your phone? the why are you using the os?14:51
r0kk3rzhaving a non-american open source product is a good answer to that14:51
ArmadilloI won't quote myself14:51
pawky|2r0kk3rz: it surely is, but are we exploiting this opportunity today, giving the user the possibility to benefit from it?14:52
r0kk3rztoday its a work in progress, not really suitable for mass consumption14:52
*** SpeedEvil has joined #jollamobile14:52
r0kk3rzthe people in Tasmania that I showed the Jolla to were very receptive though14:52
r0kk3rzbut some were like "what do you mean its not android??"14:53
pawky|2r0kk3rz: yes, people ususally are, but there is no true sales pitch yet, and this is Jollas akilles heal..14:53
r0kk3rz*Achilles heel14:54
*** Xeno_PL has quit IRC14:54
Yanielif there was, it would introduce an infinite amount of nitpicking14:54
pawky|2yes, you have the possibility to control the things behind Android, but not as a user. Thus in the end rooting an android putting some security software on it will far outweight the Jolla devices14:54
*** Porkepix has joined #jollamobile14:54
r0kk3rzmy pirate party tinfoil hat wearing friend very much likes the idea of a non-google operating system14:55
pawky|2r0kk3rz: (yeah i felt the spellling was a bit off ;-) )14:55
r0kk3rzconsidering he has all but removed google anything from his life14:55
r0kk3rzcept for running cyanogenmod14:55
pawky|2Yaniel: So, if you have a sales team ready to sell the Jolla products, what would you give them for sale pitch suggestions?14:56
r0kk3rzone really liked the UI, once he got his head around it14:56
pawky|2Yes, the UI is cool, but how many apps are you actually using on the phone that truly benefits from it?14:57
r0kk3rzmy main pitch to people like me is the interaction with the company you get14:57
Bysmyyr_pawky|2: almost all what I use14:57
r0kk3rzif i have an issue, i can come in here and talk directly to jolla engineers14:57
r0kk3rzphones are very personal devices these days, having such a personal interaction with the company that makes it is pretty cool14:58
pawky|2r0kk3rz: That is one of my pitches, but I can only tell them to people who are already hackers, not others who use their phones in their business etc.14:58
pawky|2What I mean is that Jolla and their products are still lacking something that puts them into a market niche, aside from the other OSes.14:58
pawky|2But there is one out there, and that's security and integrity.14:59
pawky|2control of your OS Apps and Data14:59
ggabrielthat's ok, leave the "normal" users away for now with their cool ios/android devices14:59
ggabrieland let us have good things15:00
r0kk3rzi wouldnt even try and pitch to non-hacker friends yet15:00
r0kk3rzthings are still too rough15:00
ggabrielwe already have requests in tjc of "make this app work with aliendalvik" that outweight copy+paste etc15:00
r0kk3rzand likely to burn uses forever from a bad experience15:00
r0kk3rz*users15:00
pawky|2But how long can Jolla last, if not also getting a bigger market share?15:01
pawky|2We all benefit from more people using this platform15:01
ggabrielthey're doing alright now15:01
pawky|2thus we need the very arguments to pitch this product to the broad audience.15:01
ggabrieli don't benefit if most users want a feature that's unimportant to me15:01
r0kk3rzpawky|2: jolla is a small company, they dont need billions of users15:01
gogetaat this point artemma is right15:02
gogetaenabled payed apps15:02
r0kk3rzLinux as an OS has survived for some time now, I dont see why Jolla cant even with a niche product15:02
ggabrielwe don't need to open the floodgates for paid applications tho15:02
gogetamobile is a bit differnt thing15:02
pawky|2r0kk3rz: But it did so because it had a niche in the market.15:02
gogetadev need money15:02
* ggabriel is quite comfortable with explaining to his friends that his jolla is much better than their ios/android but they can't have it :P15:03
gogetaand apple and google give those to them15:03
gogetam$ literally pay devs15:03
gogetafor have apps15:03
r0kk3rzJolla just got a cash injection from the whole tablet thing, and who knows they might do the same again for the next jolla phone15:03
r0kk3rzpayed apps is in the works afaik15:04
pawky|2r0kk3rz: yes, I bought one as well, but this also got me thinking...15:04
r0kk3rzwhen that will surface is anyones guess15:05
AcceThere are great many things that need to be done15:05
pawky|2paid apps, and good apps in general.15:05
fluxwell, apparently jolla has quite many people in the payroll, so it cannot maintain a small niche for indefinitely..15:05
Acceand honestly, I recommended for example my dad to buy an android phone instead of a Jolla15:05
pawky|2but the niche to take is security, and integrity. Thats where we should be.15:05
pawky|2flux: precisely my point15:05
AcceI'm patiently waiting for Jolla to deliver though15:06
pawky|2thats why i am putting these thoughts forward15:06
AcceThey're obviously not stupid or blind, they know there are flaws15:06
Accethat's why they're working their asses off on this15:06
r0kk3rzflux: they certainly dont have apple or samsung or google levels of people yet15:06
r0kk3rzso their need for cashflow is a lot less15:06
*** ivan4th` has joined #jollamobile15:07
fluxr0kk3rz, no, but let's say they have 100 people, which might be close to truth. that might take 10 million a year. let's be generous and say 5 million.15:07
*** Blizzz has joined #jollamobile15:08
fluxso the tablet project is at around 1 million now.. but it's not 1 million profit.15:08
r0kk3rzno, but for small company with a big vision, profit is secondary15:08
Acceyeah, it's not profit.. it's supportive funding15:08
r0kk3rzremaining cash positive is the main goal at this point I would imagine15:08
*** Sail0r has quit IRC15:08
Accenot even enough to keep them going, just nice little extra to be able to push out the second product15:08
*** hankeypancake has quit IRC15:11
Yanielsome pocket money to spend on something interesting15:13
r0kk3rzthe crowdfunding method seems to be working out for them15:14
Yanielyep15:14
r0kk3rzand keeps them away from vulture capitalism15:14
Acceit's good marketing + good way to keep people involved15:14
r0kk3rzits also a pretty cool way for small companies to do big things15:15
SK_workeven if selling n 10^3 tablets is not a big thing15:16
r0kk3rzalthough risky when you consider all the ill conceived products that have failed on kickstarter15:16
SK_workxiaomi sells maybe 100 times more15:16
Acceand also I don't give much a damn what other people use (regarding the discussion above), I like Sailfish, I love it maybe. But I am sometimes worried about the fact that if the things that probably make less patient people go nuts are not fixed "soon" enough, what will come of Jolla..15:16
r0kk3rzthe low volume makes it more costly, not less15:16
*** hankeypancake has joined #jollamobile15:17
AcceI can wait, and so can many others, but most people probably won't wait15:17
r0kk3rzxiaomi also probably has the backing of the PRC government15:18
*** pvanhoof has joined #jollamobile15:19
r0kk3rznot to mention first priority access to the chinese market15:19
Acceyeah15:19
AcceChina will be interesting15:19
Acceand already is15:19
Accebecause they definitely don't like Google / Apple / MS and are constantly developing Linux based solutions, Sailfish has nice potential there15:20
*** kjokinie has quit IRC15:21
r0kk3rzdont they already have their own fork of android?15:21
r0kk3rzsurely they must...15:21
Accewell, it's popular to have some tech shops to install Cyanogen / other custom ROMs on your android hardware, I have heard15:22
*** boom1992 has joined #jollamobile15:23
SK_workmiui is a fork of aosp15:23
r0kk3rzyeah i thought so15:23
SK_workdoes anyone here knows about security on linux ?15:23
SK_workhas been reading stuff on polkit, selinux, apparmor and smack15:24
tbr"don't IRC as root", does that count?15:24
tbr(your question is extremely broad)15:24
SK_workdoes it work applied to the Jolla. Especially, does the Jolla kernel enables this stuff15:24
SK_worktbr: yes, but I wanted to make it more precise15:24
SK_workit is in context of the Jolla, and for accessing resources like contacts etc.15:24
Yanielor do anything else as root for that matter15:24
SK_workso private life security15:25
Yanielbasically app access to things?15:25
AcceYaniel: Thou shall not fear becoming root15:25
tbrSK_work: there are many concepts how to limit application access15:25
YanielI don't15:25
r0kk3rzatm its fairly abysmal15:25
Acceyeah it's joke, man15:26
SK_workr0kk3rz: basically, atm, you write a root daemon, you can send phone data to chine without user's consent15:26
Yanielbut most of the time when people do things as root it is because they have no clue what they are doing15:26
SK_worktbr: I read the Tizen slides about Smack again15:26
tbrcurrently the main security barrier is the superficial jolla store review15:26
*** kjokinie has joined #jollamobile15:26
SK_worktbr: do you know much about smack (for example) ?15:26
r0kk3rzSK_work: i was more thinking of the 'everything runs as nemo' thing15:27
tbrSK_work: no, a former colleague maintains it though15:27
SK_workr0kk3rz: there are privileged stuff nevertheless15:27
SK_workof course you can add yourself in the privliged via a RPM postin script15:27
SK_worktbr: hum ok15:27
*** rainemak has quit IRC15:27
*** Xeno_PL has joined #jollamobile15:28
r0kk3rzwasnt long ago that the random security audit thing was released, so at least Jolla has a good list of what to fix15:29
tbrSK_work: the problem I see is, that introducing a security paradigm needs to be done on a holistic scale to have a chance of working. On the other hand if it gets in the way of the developer or even worse the user it will fail really hard.15:29
*** mkosola1 has quit IRC15:29
tbrr0kk3rz: "random security audit"?15:29
*** vadim27 has joined #jollamobile15:30
r0kk3rzsome white paper that was released, i forget the name of the dudes who did it15:30
tbron sailfish or generic?15:30
r0kk3rzon jolla/sailfish15:30
tbrk15:30
*** rainemak has joined #jollamobile15:30
SK_workI have seen the slides only recently15:31
r0kk3rzi'll see if I can find it15:31
SK_worktbr: yeah, I know15:31
SK_workcould be nice to have something that works out of the box, and requires nothing from dev / user15:31
SK_work(well, maybe some dialogs for the user)15:31
SK_workbut no manifests or crappy stuff like these15:31
*** mkosola has joined #jollamobile15:32
*** inte__ has joined #jollamobile15:34
*** zhxt has quit IRC15:34
*** Porkepix has quit IRC15:35
*** Dag0b3rt` is now known as Dag0b3rt15:36
*** inte has quit IRC15:36
*** mkosola has quit IRC15:38
*** Xeno_PL has quit IRC15:39
*** Porkepix has joined #jollamobile15:44
javispedrosecurity framework.... *shudders*15:45
*** spiiroin has quit IRC15:50
SK_workjavispedro: what's the problem15:51
javispedrofor me at least the main benefit of sailfish, etc. is that I can prototype programs in Gentoo and then cross-compile right away to Jolla without much complication, and the libraries and APIs I can use don't actually change much.15:52
javispedros/Gentoo/$DESKTOP_GNU_DISTRO15:53
javispedro'security frameworks' _tend_ (it's not a given) to go against that15:53
*** martyone has joined #jollamobile15:54
*** mkollaro has quit IRC15:55
*** ced117 has joined #jollamobile15:57
*** radekp has quit IRC15:57
*** Mivalpuff has joined #jollamobile15:58
SK_workjavispedro: hum15:58
*** hankeypancake has quit IRC16:00
*** gabriel9 has quit IRC16:00
*** silmoc has joined #jollamobile16:03
*** dhbiker has quit IRC16:06
*** dhbiker has joined #jollamobile16:07
*** Mivalpuff_ has joined #jollamobile16:07
*** Xeno_PL has joined #jollamobile16:08
*** Mivalpuff has quit IRC16:09
*** Mivalpuff_ is now known as Mivalpuff16:10
*** spiiroin has joined #jollamobile16:10
*** cloanta_ has joined #jollamobile16:10
*** Venemo_j has joined #jollamobile16:12
*** javispedro has quit IRC16:15
*** qqK has joined #jollamobile16:18
*** Mivalpuff_ has joined #jollamobile16:22
*** Venemo_j has quit IRC16:22
*** Mivalpuff has quit IRC16:23
*** Mivalpuff_ is now known as Mivalpuff16:23
*** Swan|PC has quit IRC16:27
*** Mivalpuff has quit IRC16:28
*** Shinryuu has quit IRC16:33
*** FlashAsp_ has joined #jollamobile16:33
*** FlashAsparagus has quit IRC16:34
*** AL13N has joined #jollamobile16:37
*** Reflexdarky has joined #jollamobile16:39
*** KaiRo_Mozilla has joined #jollamobile16:46
*** Yaniel has quit IRC16:49
*** KaIRC has quit IRC16:49
*** Yaniel has joined #jollamobile16:49
*** Sail0r has joined #jollamobile16:53
*** Venemo_j has joined #jollamobile16:57
*** Sail0r has quit IRC16:57
*** Sail0r has joined #jollamobile17:01
*** jmlich has quit IRC17:03
*** Venemo_j_ has joined #jollamobile17:05
*** Venemo_j_ has quit IRC17:07
*** Venemo_j has quit IRC17:07
*** tanty is now known as tanty_off17:10
*** mcuros has joined #jollamobile17:11
*** inte_ has joined #jollamobile17:14
*** silmoc has quit IRC17:14
*** r0kk3rz_ has joined #jollamobile17:15
*** lainwir3d has quit IRC17:16
*** blueboxthief has quit IRC17:16
*** inte__ has quit IRC17:16
*** r0kk3rz has quit IRC17:17
*** r0kk3rz_ is now known as r0kk3rz17:17
*** FlashAsparagus has joined #jollamobile17:21
*** cristi has quit IRC17:22
*** reviewjolla_J has quit IRC17:22
*** FlashAsp_ has quit IRC17:24
*** pvanhoof has quit IRC17:28
*** cb400f has joined #jollamobile17:33
*** attah has joined #jollamobile17:38
*** ortylp has joined #jollamobile17:43
*** ortylp has quit IRC17:43
attahWhy is it not possible to unmark answers as correct on TJC? (but you can mark answers as correct on other people's questions)17:43
*** Shinryuu has joined #jollamobile17:43
* attah has a sudden urge to go crazy marking the worst answers i can find17:44
*** hankeypancake has joined #jollamobile17:49
*** M4rtinK has joined #jollamobile17:50
*** hankeypancake has quit IRC17:54
*** birdzhang has joined #jollamobile17:55
*** Porkepix has quit IRC17:55
*** Porkepix has joined #jollamobile17:55
*** reviewjolla_J has joined #jollamobile17:59
*** attah has quit IRC18:00
*** attah has joined #jollamobile18:00
*** simbrown has quit IRC18:11
*** msava has joined #jollamobile18:12
*** birdzhang has quit IRC18:15
*** zhxt_work has quit IRC18:18
*** zhxt_work has joined #jollamobile18:19
*** Kabouik has quit IRC18:20
*** StanT has joined #jollamobile18:20
*** Xeno_PL has quit IRC18:23
*** pdanek has quit IRC18:25
*** StanT has quit IRC18:28
*** attah has quit IRC18:40
*** Kabouik has joined #jollamobile18:42
*** jesze has joined #jollamobile18:46
*** sec has joined #jollamobile18:49
*** Reflexdarky has quit IRC18:49
*** protem has quit IRC18:51
*** Sail0r has quit IRC18:53
*** thessy has joined #jollamobile18:53
M4rtinKJolla Tablet on Phoronix:18:53
M4rtinKhttp://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTg1MDA18:53
Stskeepscomment section should be a blast18:54
M4rtinKnothing less should be expected from Phoronix :)18:56
M4rtinKBTW, looks like there already was even a Slashdot story: http://linux.slashdot.org/story/14/11/19/1343250/jolla-crowdfunds-its-first-tablet18:56
M4rtinKmush have missed it18:56
Stskeepsyeah came first day i think18:57
* Stskeeps builds another tablet image18:58
*** jesze has quit IRC19:01
*** furikku has quit IRC19:02
*** pdanek has joined #jollamobile19:05
r0kk3rzah, f2fs doesnt even have a stable release yet19:05
*** matrixx has quit IRC19:06
*** raa700_ has quit IRC19:06
*** matrixx_ has joined #jollamobile19:06
*** Iltsu has quit IRC19:06
*** timoph has quit IRC19:06
*** sharpneli has quit IRC19:06
*** ukas_ has quit IRC19:06
*** ighea has quit IRC19:07
*** sharpneli has joined #jollamobile19:07
*** oh2lna has quit IRC19:07
*** mikkoh has quit IRC19:07
*** Iltsu has joined #jollamobile19:07
*** oh2lna has joined #jollamobile19:07
*** Summeli_ has quit IRC19:07
*** ighea has joined #jollamobile19:07
*** mikkoh has joined #jollamobile19:08
*** Summeli has joined #jollamobile19:09
M4rtinKr0kk3rz: I don't really see a need for it to be honest19:10
M4rtinKEXT3/4, btrfs or (my favorite) XFS should be just fine :)19:10
Stskeepsyou may not but a regular consumer might. i'd personally use ext4 but i rarely take out my microsd in first place19:11
*** ukas has joined #jollamobile19:12
*** plfiorini has joined #jollamobile19:12
*** raa700 has joined #jollamobile19:12
*** timoph has joined #jollamobile19:12
*** cloanta_ has quit IRC19:14
M4rtinKI'm quite convinced even regular users don't swap their micro SD cards very often19:15
*** martyone has quit IRC19:15
Stskeepsthat said, i could be interested in a survey about who contributed to tablet19:16
Stskeepsie, types of people, technical, regular user, open source fanatic..19:16
M4rtinKjust considering the tiny size of the card and usually awkward exchange method (remove cover, remove batter, etc.)19:16
*** mcuros has quit IRC19:17
*** mcuros has joined #jollamobile19:17
M4rtinKStskeeps: yeah, that would be interesting19:17
M4rtinKespecially considering the expectation of these groups19:18
Stskeepsthe marketing reached out in a lot of very different places, so19:18
M4rtinKI'm inclined to think most backers are at least a bit technically inclined19:18
*** jua_ has joined #jollamobile19:18
M4rtinKjust due to the simple need to pay over the Internet :)19:18
Stskeepsyeah but at same time, ubuntu edge, 37m .. that can't be all well, open source people19:19
Stskeepser, 12m it was wasnt it19:19
M4rtinKwell, it was a total vapor ware "do everything" device19:19
StskeepsM4rtinK: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-dragonfly-futurefon--319:20
M4rtinKsomeone linked to that already19:20
Stskeepsour seems like the job of angels compared19:21
Stskeeps:P19:21
M4rtinKI had to check it is really indiegogo, not a scam site :)19:21
M4rtinKBTW, I still think that Ubuntu attempt was a classical "fuck you price" thing19:23
Stskeepsmm?19:24
M4rtinKeq. you don't really want to do something but participate in the contest for the contract anyway19:24
Stskeepsah19:24
M4rtinKIIRC there was a case when Cisco bid about 3x times as much as the highest other bid19:24
*** dunp has quit IRC19:25
Stskeepsooi is there any uefi bootable usb sticks of fedora?19:25
*** dunp has joined #jollamobile19:25
M4rtinKshould be, let me check19:25
M4rtinKStskeeps: this should get you one: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_and_use_Live_USB#UEFI_boot_of_USB_sticks19:26
*** thessy has quit IRC19:27
M4rtinKAnd for convenience, Fedora 20 (current stable): http://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/20/Live/x86_64/Fedora-Live-Desktop-x86_64-20-1.iso19:34
*** friese has quit IRC19:35
M4rtinKand Fedora 21 (currently at RC stage, hopefully final in a few days): http://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/21_RC1/Workstation/x86_64/iso/Fedora-Live-Workstation-x86_64-21-1.iso19:36
*** hankeypancake has joined #jollamobile19:38
r0kk3rzM4rtinK: i see the point of it, i just keep seeing comments that jolla should support f2fs rather than paying for exfat19:39
r0kk3rzbut without at least a stable release, that is a non starter for a consumer device19:39
sharpneliThe reason why exfat support is good: Try and use f2fs on other devices19:40
r0kk3rzits a moot point anyway19:40
sharpneliSure it's piece of crap technically and requires money because of the shittiest company in history. But it's what others support.19:40
sharpneliAnd the ability to transfer sdcards is quite useful19:41
r0kk3rzconsumers dont want to have to reformat their SD cards from stock19:41
sharpneliThat too.19:41
r0kk3rzso you need to support whatever the standard FS is19:41
r0kk3rzwhich atm is a patent encumbered pos19:41
sharpneliYap. It's just MS using it's desktop monopoly to grab payments from others.19:42
*** boom1992 has quit IRC19:42
sharpneliBut complaints won't help change the situation19:42
r0kk3rzyeah, jolla is a company, not a political movement19:43
*** hankeypancake has quit IRC19:43
r0kk3rzif you want to get political, support the FSF19:43
sharpneliAnd tbh the political solution for this would be "You cannot demand patent payments for products who's prime purpose is interoperability"19:44
*** Shinryuu has quit IRC19:45
*** Shinryuu has joined #jollamobile19:47
r0kk3rzi would word it differently, but something like that anyway19:47
M4rtinKbut Jolla is #unlike! :)19:47
*** sec has quit IRC19:47
r0kk3rzalso, wtf on that dragonfly thing19:49
*** mcuros has quit IRC19:49
*** mcuros_ has joined #jollamobile19:49
r0kk3rzi dont even19:49
M4rtinKcheck the certificate chain, just to be sure :)19:50
*** mcuros_ has quit IRC19:52
*** mcuros_ has joined #jollamobile19:52
*** Porkepix has quit IRC19:54
*** mcuros_ has quit IRC19:54
*** Porkepix has joined #jollamobile19:55
*** mcuros has joined #jollamobile19:56
*** MBavagnoli has quit IRC20:00
*** StanT has joined #jollamobile20:01
*** FlashAsparagus has quit IRC20:02
*** FlashAsparagus has joined #jollamobile20:03
*** Sail0r has joined #jollamobile20:03
*** tetris4 has joined #jollamobile20:04
*** StanT is now known as XenoPL20:05
*** FlashAsparagus has quit IRC20:08
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile20:14
*** FlashAsparagus has joined #jollamobile20:15
Mirvthere was an interesting comment suggesting use of ntfs instead of exfat...20:18
*** beidl has joined #jollamobile20:19
MirvI guess with the idea that it's not as clearly patent-minefielded (?), but still supported by everything20:19
Mirvwell I guess the everything is limited to computers, I doubt other phones support it20:20
*** raignarok has quit IRC20:21
*** raignarok has joined #jollamobile20:23
TofeDo people really take in and out their sdcard in their phones or tablets ?20:23
M4rtinKthe world wonders :)20:24
* inte_ never20:24
MirvI doubt that, and if they do it's possibly for copying backups. ntfs would work. but that'd still leave the unfortunate minority that would want to eg swap media content from tablet to some android device (unless of course android devices _do_ come with ntfs enabled)20:25
Mirvwell, no matter what, exfat is an unfortunate piece of s..oftware20:26
*** ortylp has joined #jollamobile20:26
*** Lipevakala_ has joined #jollamobile20:27
*** Lipevakala has quit IRC20:29
*** swift110_ has joined #jollamobile20:29
*** Nc_ has quit IRC20:34
*** jonwil has joined #jollamobile20:38
*** phaeron has quit IRC20:38
*** swift1102 has joined #jollamobile20:40
*** eleroux has joined #jollamobile20:40
*** swift1102 is now known as swift11020:42
*** swift110 is now known as swift110220:44
*** swift110_ has quit IRC20:44
*** vode has quit IRC20:45
*** matrixx_ has quit IRC20:47
*** matrixx has joined #jollamobile20:47
SpeedEvilIt's a damn shame SDs don't support 'dumb' mode.20:52
*** r0kk3rz has quit IRC20:53
SpeedEvil'I have this many eraseblocks' 'they are this size' you can do these operations on them, and I flag errors like this20:53
*** Shinryuu has quit IRC20:53
*** arcean has quit IRC20:54
mornfallTofe: for usb mass storage, the computer needs to understand the filesystem too20:54
SpeedEvilThe _only_ specified format for sdxc is vfat20:55
SpeedEvilin the spec20:55
SpeedEvilIf you format it another way, it is not an SDXC card20:55
*** arcean has joined #jollamobile20:56
mornfallTofe: (which is why you can't access data on jolla's internal memory as mass storage :)20:56
mornfallTofe: (it is the same btrfs as the system)20:56
*** nodevel has quit IRC20:57
*** Mr_K has joined #jollamobile20:58
Nightmare__http://www.linshof.com/phone.html20:58
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile20:58
*** Shinryuu has joined #jollamobile20:59
M4rtinKSpeedEvil: I propose a free high capacity SD card format using EXT4 called Freedom Stick ! :)21:00
M4rtinKand one using XFS called Enterprise Freedom Stick :)21:01
*** dhbiker has quit IRC21:02
SpeedEvilM4rtinK: yeah - but it doesn't work unless you have the SD actually support it.21:03
SpeedEvilAt least - not optimally21:03
swift1102hello all21:04
*** emaj has quit IRC21:05
*** Nightmare__ has quit IRC21:06
*** Sail0r has quit IRC21:12
*** FlashAsp_ has joined #jollamobile21:19
*** FlashAsp_ has quit IRC21:21
*** FlashAsp_ has joined #jollamobile21:21
*** FlashAsparagus has quit IRC21:22
*** javispedro has joined #jollamobile21:23
*** plfiorini has quit IRC21:24
*** swift1102 has quit IRC21:31
*** ortylp has quit IRC21:43
*** vixxo has joined #jollamobile21:44
vixxohi guys, I'm quite confused about sailfishOS: Jolla and articles I've read talks about opensource License, but as I can see Jolla UI is proprietary software. Am I correct ?21:46
Yanielyes, at least parts of the UI are closed for now21:48
Yanielspecifically the Silica libs21:48
*** eleroux has quit IRC21:49
vixxois there any chance they will become opensource ?21:49
Yanieljolla have said that they aim to do that21:51
Yanielpresumably once the OS gains some serious traction and is licensed to larger vendors21:52
vixxoso they are using that license only as "a start policy" to obtain parternships with bit hardware corps instead of let them just use their product21:53
Stskeepsnot to mention a very large portion of the stack is open sourced..21:55
YanielI think they are going for something like redhat in the end21:55
Yanieljolla providing (paid) support for essentially an open system21:55
Yanielbut of course they need to get it going first21:55
Stskeepshttp://techcrunch.com/2014/02/13/please-dont-tell-me-you-want-to-be-the-next-red-hat/21:56
vixxothank you guys for your exhaustive informations :D21:58
Yanielwell, it has been a while since I heard of redhat21:59
Yanielbut I liked their concept and this article seems like a reasonable continuation of that21:59
*** keithzg has quit IRC22:03
sharpneliStskeeps, the next dark overlord!22:04
*** keithzg has joined #jollamobile22:05
Stskeepsi do like pulling the strings..22:05
leinirPull de string! http://youtu.be/mnaa1PNW6Ns?t=7m55s22:09
*** vixxo has quit IRC22:12
*** vadim27 has quit IRC22:13
*** phaeron has joined #jollamobile22:15
*** Zotan has joined #jollamobile22:25
*** msvb-lab has quit IRC22:25
*** Mr_K has quit IRC22:34
*** Porkepix has quit IRC22:35
*** DrSkyLizard has joined #jollamobile22:36
*** TMavica has quit IRC22:39
*** DrSkyLizard has quit IRC22:45
M4rtinKRed Hat is cool ;-)22:52
*** KaiRo_Mozilla has quit IRC22:54
*** FlashAsparagus has joined #jollamobile22:54
RavenholmDXFinally commited my first Sailfish app to source control22:55
RavenholmDX(not public yet though)22:56
M4rtinKboo :)22:56
M4rtinK(but if it just due to development phase code, then it is of course fine :) )22:57
*** FlashAsp_ has quit IRC22:57
M4rtinKand good luck in your coding endeavors :)22:59
*** Pat_o has quit IRC23:02
dunphttps://learn.adafruit.com/16-channel-pwm-servo-driver walking TOH  just idea23:07
chem|stdunp: how about a flying toh? I2C to brushless ESC...23:10
dunp:)23:12
dunpUFOTOH23:12
ShadowJKcrashes just became much more expensive23:13
dunpufo crashes is allways expensive :)23:13
*** mcuros has quit IRC23:14
*** mcuros has joined #jollamobile23:14
RavenholmDXM4rtinK, still waiting on my Jolla to arrive23:18
RavenholmDXwant to test it on actual hardware before I make the repo public23:18
*** javispedro has quit IRC23:24
*** Porkepix has joined #jollamobile23:31
*** boom1992 has joined #jollamobile23:33
*** nodevel has quit IRC23:34
*** Zotan has quit IRC23:39
*** arcean has quit IRC23:42
*** Nc_ has joined #jollamobile23:44
*** qqK has quit IRC23:47
*** jua_ has quit IRC23:49
salyavinI guess if Sailfish opened silica they could try only giving binaries to paid people like  Red Hat above but you'd end up with SailCentOS.23:52
salyavinI very much want them to be completly open just not sure how to make money.  No partners so far so they could keep selling the hardware.23:54
*** Nc_ has quit IRC23:59

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!