#jollamobile log for Saturday, 2014-11-29

*** FlashAsp_ has joined #jollamobile00:05
M4rtinKwell the development bleeding edge (Fedora), stable/paid/supported (RHEL) and stable/free/unsupported (CentOS) is not a bad combination IMHO :)00:06
*** FlashAsparagus has quit IRC00:09
*** blueboxthief has joined #jollamobile00:14
*** bef0rd has joined #jollamobile00:18
*** bef0rd has joined #jollamobile00:18
*** the_mgt_ has joined #jollamobile00:18
*** the_mgt has quit IRC00:22
*** the_mgt_ is now known as the_mgt00:22
*** Shinryuu has quit IRC00:22
*** blueboxthief has quit IRC00:23
salyavinI do like it, if it could work for Jolla great.  We do get support from RHEL at work.  Do you think that model could work on mobile?00:24
*** Eismann has quit IRC00:28
*** Eismann has joined #jollamobile00:28
*** HarhaanJohtaja has quit IRC00:32
M4rtinKWell no one really tried that yet, that's for sure.00:32
M4rtinKSo it would be pretty #unlike, thus suitable for fulfilling Jollas motto. :)00:33
M4rtinKOn the other hand I don't really see how completely open source Sailfish OS would change the _current_ situation.00:34
M4rtinKThere are still no third parties licensing Sailfish OS.00:34
*** _inte_ has joined #jollamobile00:34
*** roboro has quit IRC00:34
M4rtinKso at least it could provide some goodwill in the open source community and some third party contributions00:35
M4rtinKwhile one can't really count on contributions beforehand00:36
M4rtinKI think people scratching their own itch could make *some* of those numerous feature requests and bug reports on Together disappear pretty quickly :)00:37
M4rtinKalso, even if you opensource the whole thing, you still keep your trademarks00:37
*** inte_ has quit IRC00:37
M4rtinKthat plays a surprisingly important role actually :)00:38
*** Blizzz has quit IRC00:42
salyavinIt would sure get a lot of warm feelings from me.  I've always been dissapointed parts of Maemo and Harmattan and Sailfish are closed.01:07
salyavinThat's why some opensource people stay with Android.01:07
M4rtinKyeah, have heard that from some people recently01:08
M4rtinK"What, it is not fully open ? Even Android is!"01:08
M4rtinKthat is of course not fully true, even for AOSP and its development01:09
M4rtinKbut still a kinda valid argument01:09
salyavinYea it's valid.  Not sure who is more open.  If you use already installed on phone Android google services are possible closed as well.01:09
salyavinJolla opened the browser and stuff which helped a little.01:10
salyavinIf Ubuntu would multitask like Sailfish it would be tempting but they are not.01:11
*** Dag0b3rt` has joined #jollamobile01:12
salyavinI always found the Android interface clunky and wanted a more normal linux environment.01:13
M4rtinKI think Ubuntu is a lost cause unfortunately01:13
M4rtinKand not even the mobile one01:13
M4rtinK*not just01:13
*** pdanek has quit IRC01:14
salyavinMir didn't make people happy01:14
salyavinUnity interface not as nice as I'd like.01:15
*** Dag0b3rt has quit IRC01:15
salyavinBq still might release a phone, Meizu seems to be putting a Flyme skin on it.01:16
M4rtinKalso I think their QA is slipping01:16
*** XenoPL has quit IRC01:16
M4rtinKhad some serious issues with on of the recent ubuntus01:17
salyavinI was not aware of that, I have not run Ubuntu for some time.01:17
salyavinThey moved us to RHEL desktop at work of all things from Ubuntu.01:18
M4rtinKdont know about the very recent ones as I have since switched to Fedora :)01:18
M4rtinKRHEL6 ? :)01:19
M4rtinKprobably too early for 7 yet :)01:19
salyavin lsb_release -i -r01:20
salyavinDistributor ID: RedHatEnterpriseWorkstation01:20
salyavinRelease:        6.501:20
salyavinyea 6 it seems01:20
salyavinhome I am one of those weird Gentoo people01:20
M4rtinK6 might be a bit dated in comparison to recent distros01:21
salyavinIt is.01:21
*** bef0rd has quit IRC01:21
salyavinProbably newer than Debian stable01:21
M4rtinKI think it really depends on what you need to do with it01:21
M4rtinKon the other hand it should be very stable :)01:21
salyavinhad hibernate issues on our laptops for one.01:22
salyavinYou're right with things as they are it wouldn't change much for Jolla if they opened everything.  I hope they do, it would save me embarrasing explanations.01:23
M4rtinKif you have subscription then you should report it :)01:23
M4rtinKsalyavin: exactly!01:24
M4rtinKit is really a bit embarassing sometimes01:24
M4rtinKI meet a lot of really open source friendly if not fundamentalistic people01:24
M4rtinKand they are sometimes quite put off when they find out it is not fully open01:25
M4rtinKand they are running a fully open source distro and software on their computers and work with opensource all day long01:26
M4rtinKso you can't really blame such opinions...01:26
salyavinyes, I am in that same situation with explanations.  I've been into open software for 20 years so it causes me discomfort.01:27
salyavinSome who came to Jolla with the promise they would open it up actually left when they didn't.01:29
salyavinOverall such a customer base is quite small I am sure.01:29
*** w00t has left #jollamobile01:30
M4rtinKI would say you at least should not promise something you don't fullfill in the future01:33
M4rtinKor at least apologize and explain changed circumstances01:34
M4rtinKbut there is a deafening silence for most of these questions from Jolla01:34
M4rtinKand now the marketing misstep with "proudly opensource", "change whatever you want" all over again in the tablet marketing01:35
M4rtinKwhile this was thankfully clarified in the latest community IRC meeting (unfortunatelly for the worse - it was really a marketing oops, not a real intention)01:36
M4rtinKthere is still no official clarification01:36
M4rtinKwhich I think can make some pretty pissed01:36
M4rtinKand I also kinda fear about possible backslash from all those people who pledged based on this "promise"01:37
salyavinYes it causes a lot of disappointment from open source people, who incidentally are the ones who write apps of which they have few.01:42
M4rtinKyeah, I don't really get it01:43
M4rtinKalso stuff like the Jolla Store debacle01:43
M4rtinKat a time when you need applications and app developers the most01:43
*** pXd has joined #jollamobile01:43
salyavinWhat debacle is it?  No paid apps?01:43
M4rtinKyou can hardly submit any app that does anything serious to the store01:44
M4rtinKdue to limited dependencies allowed01:44
salyavinAh that's not good.  Of course we install openrepos but only a small number of people know about that.01:44
M4rtinKand paid apps can also be important01:44
*** boom1992 has quit IRC01:45
M4rtinKI can see some indie devs loosing interest without paid apps01:45
M4rtinKwhile I do only open source apps, I can understand their motivation01:45
salyavinYes.  They won't make a huge amount of money but it helps.  Even open source software can get a little money like gPodder in the OVI store on Harmattan.01:45
M4rtinKyes, exactly01:45
M4rtinKwelů, even a built in donation support would be good!01:46
M4rtinKthe biggest hurdle for donations are technical issue IMHO01:46
M4rtinKnot everyone has paypal bitcoin gratipay or flattr01:46
pp_it gets messy in .fi for other reasons too01:46
M4rtinKbut if it was integrated in the store01:46
*** h4PPYC4T has quit IRC01:47
M4rtinKit could make a difference01:47
pp_not that non-.fi devels couldn'tget donations :)01:47
M4rtinKwell, paypal is based where ?01:47
M4rtinKLuxemburg ? :D01:47
M4rtinKif the want something back01:47
pp_doesn't matter, there's a reason the tablet money went to jolla asia :-)01:48
M4rtinKI can send everyone who donates me >1 € a post card :)01:48
M4rtinKpp_ thinks so :)01:48
M4rtinK(BTW, I already send postcards to people who donate to modRana :) )01:48
pp_then it's fine, obviously you need to pay tax on the profits made on post cards :-)01:49
M4rtinKsure :)01:49
*** bef0rd has joined #jollamobile01:50
M4rtinKanyway, I find it quite bad that a year after launch QtPositioning and Python are still not acceptable to store01:50
M4rtinKhopefully it should now be soon (tm) possible to submit them to store according to the latest meeting01:51
M4rtinKbut still not the best way to court to developers IMHO01:51
M4rtinKapps like modRana or Foursail have been blocked from the store for about more than half a year already due to this01:52
M4rtinKany many others01:53
M4rtinKI can see the developers loosing interest01:53
M4rtinKand those are all *free* apps by definition!01:53
M4rtinKpeople working on them in their free time for free and are blocked from most of their potential users...01:54
salyavinyes it's frustrating.  So they depend even more on aliendalvik01:54
salyavinwhich kinda defeats the point of running Sailfish.01:55
salyavinGlad the weechat client is being developed, even has a sponsor.  That's the main android app I am running.  gPodder 4 is frustrating me due to no play que.01:56
M4rtinKsend a pull request :)01:58
M4rtinKactually all my current needs are more or less satisfied by native apps :)01:59
M4rtinKfbreader, tweetian and default browser and mail client01:59
M4rtinKand media player or siren song :)01:59
M4rtinKand of course modRana for navigation :)01:59
salyavinI just downloaded modRana for a quick look.  One thing I noticed is you show the map file location but don't seem to allow changing it to the sdcard (other than symlinks).02:02
salyavingpodder4 no play que and weechat front end are my missing things.02:03
salyavintwettian I use a lot but it could use a little love.02:03
*** tetris4 has quit IRC02:08
*** uvatbc has joined #jollamobile02:08
RavenholmDXsalyavin, how is gpodder on Sailfish?02:09
RavenholmDXpodcast app is probably my #1 need02:09
salyavinWell no gpodder.net connection, no play que but otherwise works OK.02:11
salyavinno play que is a big deal to me.02:11
salyavinwant me to crash my car?02:12
M4rtinKsalyavin: not in GUI at the moment :)02:12
salyavincool M4rtinK not a huge deal.02:12
salyavingpodder 3 (harmattan) was awesome.  gpodder.net synching, play que etc.02:13
salyavinoh yea don't think gpodder 4 does video yet if you need it02:13
M4rtinKsalyavin: check /home/nemo/.config/harbour-modrana/user_config.conf :)02:13
salyavinProbably thp doesn't have enough help or time.  Saw he was working on an android port recently.02:13
RavenholmDXIt seems like there'll be native apps for everything I need02:14
RavenholmDXonce I release the app I've been working on at least02:14
salyavinOK M4rtinK02:15
salyavinWhat are you working on RavenholmDX?02:15
RavenholmDXjust a video streaming app that pulls content from a site I visit02:15
salyavintt-rss is a heavy use one for me and we have that.  Works great.02:15
M4rtinKsalyavin: it can be used to set the tile storage path and other variables not yet exposed in the GUI02:15
M4rtinKBTW thp and Android - it is now possible to write Python 3 & QtQuick 2.0 apps for Android with PyOtherSide :)02:16
M4rtinKthat's how the gPodder Android port is working02:17
M4rtinKI helped him with it a bit & wrote the howto: https://github.com/thp/pyotherside/blob/master/docs/index.rst#building-for-android02:18
salyavinYea that seems to have thp interest at the moment.  I hope he adds play que and maybe gpodder.net syncing next.  Something like antannaepod has more features on android ^-^;;02:18
RavenholmDXI use Pocket Casts on Android02:18
M4rtinKmore platforms can only help your application :)02:18
RavenholmDXpretty great app02:18
salyavinGuess that's true M4rtinK02:19
M4rtinKthat's why I have already modRana experimentally running on Android :)02:19
salyavindon't use android but I downloaded Antannaepod on Jolla to try it since gpodder 4 didn't have a play que.  Even so I still use gpodder for now.02:19
*** nander has quit IRC02:19
*** rednan has joined #jollamobile02:19
M4rtinKsome late modRana users and contributors did not migrate to Sailfish but to Android02:20
salyavinAndroid does have probably 1000 times the userbase after all02:20
M4rtinKso I'm glad they will be able to use is again :)02:20
salyavinHarmattan to Android?02:20
salyavinOr Maemo to Android?02:20
M4rtinKpretty much the reason for wanting to having modRana also run on it02:21
M4rtinKother than the userbase, it is so much crap on so many levels :D02:21
M4rtinKmobile windows :D02:21
salyavinmultitasking is not good and interface is clunky to me02:21
M4rtinKand then try to actually develop for it :)02:22
M4rtinKand especially to do something the original developers never intended to support (running Python apps with Qt GUI) :P02:22
M4rtinKthen the real fun starts :)02:22
*** cb400f has quit IRC02:22
M4rtinKBTW, modRana port - it is using the same Qt 5 GUI as on Sailfish or on desktop02:23
M4rtinKjust with the QtQuick Controls backend like on desktop, not with the Silica one used on Sailfish :)02:23
M4rtinK<flood end> :)02:25
ElleoM4rtinK: just tried modrana on ubuntu touch and it seems to work: http://mikeasoft.com/~mike/modrana.png :) might try and knock together a UI using Ubuntu.Components instead of the QtQuick Controls when I have a bit of time :)02:40
Elleo(QtQuick Controls isn't available normally)02:40
M4rtinKElleo: Nice! :)02:40
M4rtinKElleo: won't you mind if I post this on Twitter ? :)02:41
ElleoM4rtinK: go right ahead :)02:41
ElleoM4rtinK: just updated the image with a non fullscreen one so it's a bit clearer it's UT02:41
M4rtinKElleo: roget that :)02:41
M4rtinKdo you have a twitter handle I can reference ? :)02:42
ElleoM4rtinK: @mikesheldon :)02:43
M4rtinKOK :)02:43
Elleowas attempting to get gpodder going and saw you mention modrana had a pure qtquick controls UI, so thought I'd give it a quick try02:44
Elleoand it pretty much worked straight out of the box :)02:44
salyavinHope your home isn't in the center of that immage Elleo ;)02:44
Elleonot sure about the GPS stuff though, as I don't get a fix in here; will try that out some more when I'm out and about02:44
Elleosalyavin: nah, I deliberately moved it a little away from where I am02:45
Elleoto somewhere the transport overlay stuff showed something more interesting02:45
Elleoif you fancy stalking me it'd get you to within about a 30 minute walk of me though ;)02:46
salyavinHow do you like Ubuntu Touch?02:46
M4rtinKElleo: here it is: https://twitter.com/M4rtinK/status/538524318641451008 :)02:47
salyavinparticularly compared to Sailfish.02:47
ElleoM4rtinK: neat, thanks :)02:47
M4rtinKElleo: thanks to you too :)02:48
Elleosalyavin: I really like them both; I actually work on Ubuntu Touch so am biased there, but really like my Jolla phone too02:48
M4rtinKBTW, this is the actual component set modRana uses: https://github.com/M4rtinK/universal-components :)02:48
ElleoM4rtinK: ah, interesting, thanks02:49
M4rtinKit supports multiple backends (currently Controls & Silica)02:49
M4rtinKso if you want to make it use the Ubuntu ones, you just need to make an Ubuntu components backend :)02:49
ElleoM4rtinK: awesome02:49
M4rtinKor you can make whole new UI, even the UI modules in modRana are plugable :)02:50
Elleoneat02:51
ElleoI suspect I'll just change the minimal amount necessary for compatibility though02:51
M4rtinKBTW, I've read about that channel bridge on Wikipedia :)02:52
M4rtinKinteresting thing :)02:52
salyavinMy main cencern with Ubuntu Touch was the multitasking http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/09/ubuntu-phones-three-things-to-expect02:52
salyavin    “Applications are not allowed to run in background. Our application lifecycle is strict in this respect and we only guarantee focused applications to be running.” ~ Thomas Voss, Canonical02:52
M4rtinKElleo: yeah, that is indeed the most sensible thing to do :)02:52
Elleosalyavin: yeah, I'm a bit conflicted about that myself; there are handy services that allow you to do lots of background stuff quite well, but there are some cases where that breaks down02:53
Elleosalyavin: e.g. you can hand off a playlist to media-hub and let it carry on playing music for you, or do downloads via download-manager in the background, etc.02:54
Elleosalyavin: but I'm currently hitting the limits of that with CuteSpotify, since that has to handle tiny raw audio packets from libspotify that can't be handed off to anything else02:54
ElleoM4rtinK: channel bridge?02:54
*** Behold has quit IRC02:56
M4rtinKElleo: your twitter background picture02:57
Elleoah right, that's the pontcysyllte aqueduct :)02:58
Elleoit's really cool going over it02:59
Elleoas there's a river below as well, so it's pretty spectacular :)02:59
*** rulli has quit IRC02:59
M4rtinKI find the UK channel system is pretty interesting :)03:00
M4rtinKpretty unique worldwide03:00
*** Nc_ has joined #jollamobile03:00
*** rulli has joined #jollamobile03:00
ElleoM4rtinK: yeah, I actually live on a narrowboat on the grand union canal :)03:00
M4rtinKwow :D03:00
Elleoit's awesome :D03:00
M4rtinKa real mobile developer :)03:00
Elleoheh03:01
M4rtinKBTW, does it freeze over in winter ?03:01
Elleosometimes, the winter before last it was frozen over for about a month03:02
ElleoI'd just got my boat then, and was almost immediately stuck :P03:02
M4rtinKlol, happens :)03:02
ElleoM4rtinK: https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/v/t1.0-9/45923_10152443202725655_1661427449_n.jpg?oh=9578902db307fbe96a72a11356b3d3f4&oe=551989A6&__gda__=1423370713_b17a2936696d31a7015c926adb8a853803:03
Elleoall the ducks had to walk to work03:03
Elleoanyway, I should get some sleep; good night :)03:05
M4rtinKgood night :)03:09
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC03:10
salyavinGood night.03:14
salyavinhmm wonder if an IRC client would stay connected when not in focus.03:14
sharpneliIt works for me03:24
ShadowJKThe sailfish native client does not.03:24
ShadowJKActually doesn't stay connected even when in focus :)03:24
ShadowJKDisconnects and reconnects whenever connectivity changes :-(03:25
ShadowJKhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YAcMgoSpDE :(03:26
ShadowJKECHAN03:27
*** Nc_ has quit IRC03:28
*** FlashAsp_ has quit IRC03:28
*** uvatbc has quit IRC03:30
*** natunen has joined #jollamobile03:59
*** TMavica has joined #jollamobile04:12
salyavinsharpneli you mean IRC on ubuntu touch stays connected when not in focus?04:18
salyavinI can see why it would reconnect on connectivity changes ShadowJK.  I am using Android weechat client that talks to my server which stays connected but I do lose connection when changing networks.04:19
ShadowJKI use openvpn local on Jolla04:27
ShadowJKIt "never" loses connectivity04:27
ShadowJKbut client reconnects anyway04:27
*** furikku has joined #jollamobile04:33
keithzgThe 3.5G stretch goal for the tablet kindof makes me sad, since it'll invariably not support the frequencies my carrier uses again :P04:34
keithzgBoth microSDHC up to 128GB and being able to run apps splitscreen sound pretty fantastic, though.04:35
* keithzg crosses his fingers04:35
salyavinI am sure it can already use the 128 card, the stretch goal is to pay Microsoft for exFAT support.04:36
salyavinMakes me sad.04:36
keithzgYeah, that's the world we live in.04:36
*** wazd__ has quit IRC04:36
salyavinSo basically just like the phone you can already use up to 2TiB cards04:37
salyavinwith ext3/4,btrfs etc.04:37
keithzgJa, I've got a 64GB card in my current tiny-tablet Jolla ;) formatted so as to work. Forget now whether I used btrfs or just fat32 though, heh.04:38
salyavin128 in mine04:39
salyavinfat32 you can run into problems with large files like large videos04:39
keithzgAs much as I love the hardware design, the screen just isn't good enough to justify trying to watch hi-def videos on it, heh.04:39
salyavinI don't either.04:40
salyavinIf all your files are less than 4GiB you're fine.04:41
keithzgBut yeah, fat32 is a janky filesystem anyways. Although it seems more solid these days than I remember it being, but that's probably because the few times I'm dealing with it nowadays it's via Linux.04:41
keithzgWindows+fat32 is just pure pain, heh.04:42
salyavinhopefully f2fs ends up in cameras etc after it stablizes04:42
salyavinnot that many take cares out of their phones or tablets often04:42
salyavintake cards04:42
salyavinbut having the cards preformatted something more open and better like f2fs would be great.04:43
keithzgehhh not going to happen.04:43
keithzgexFAT is literally part of the SDXC spec :(04:43
keithzgFunnily enough though I think I have two devices already using F2FS.04:46
salyavinreally?  what are they?04:47
keithzgMoto X (last year's) and a Nexus 9.04:47
salyavinwell it is in the linux kernel so I can see how android could.04:48
keithzgIn fact I think the new encryption regime in Android 5.0 expressly only supports F2FS and EXT4 for now.04:48
keithzgAren't the limits on F2FS kindof low for a modern filesytem, though?04:49
keithzgMax filesize of a bit below 4TB, and max volume size of 16TB.04:49
keithzgMakes perfect sense for current flash storage, but I'd hope that's something that can be trivially increased in the future, otherwise it might start looking outdated pretty soon . . .04:50
salyavinhope so too. we'll need new controllers and a standard by then as this one only goes to 2TiB04:57
salyavinto get F2FS to be part of that new standard it would need to increase limits.04:57
salyavinI agree04:57
*** martyone has joined #jollamobile05:20
*** vode has joined #jollamobile05:21
*** crazy_imp has quit IRC05:29
*** martyone has quit IRC05:30
*** Pat_o has joined #jollamobile05:30
*** FlashAsparagus has joined #jollamobile05:31
*** crazy_imp has joined #jollamobile05:35
*** crazy_imp has quit IRC05:35
*** crazy_imp has joined #jollamobile05:35
*** protem has joined #jollamobile05:44
*** FlashAsparagus has quit IRC05:48
*** FlashAsparagus has joined #jollamobile05:49
*** FlashAsparagus has quit IRC05:53
*** jonwil has quit IRC06:08
*** DrainBamaged has joined #jollamobile06:27
*** FlashAsparagus has joined #jollamobile06:27
*** BitEvil has joined #jollamobile06:28
*** beidl_ has joined #jollamobile06:28
*** tehdely_ has joined #jollamobile06:30
*** AmAH_ has joined #jollamobile06:30
*** gbour_ has joined #jollamobile06:30
*** rulli_ has joined #jollamobile06:30
*** Jettis_ has joined #jollamobile06:31
*** dhbiker has joined #jollamobile06:32
*** GsC_RuL3[ has joined #jollamobile06:32
*** motalb_ has joined #jollamobile06:34
*** FlashAsparagus has quit IRC06:36
*** zumbi_ has joined #jollamobile06:36
*** FlashAsparagus has joined #jollamobile06:37
*** junnuvi_ has joined #jollamobile06:37
*** rulli has quit IRC06:37
*** beidl has quit IRC06:37
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC06:37
*** narchie has quit IRC06:37
*** zumbi has quit IRC06:37
*** junnuvi has quit IRC06:37
*** motalb has quit IRC06:37
*** Jettis has quit IRC06:37
*** [Afk]GsC_RuL3Z has quit IRC06:37
*** AL13N_work has quit IRC06:37
*** gbour has quit IRC06:37
*** AmAH has quit IRC06:37
*** DrainBamaged1 has quit IRC06:37
*** Milhouse has quit IRC06:37
*** tehdely has quit IRC06:37
*** narchie has joined #jollamobile06:39
*** AL13N_work has joined #jollamobile06:40
*** FlashAsparagus has quit IRC06:41
*** Milhouse has joined #jollamobile06:42
*** Milhouse has quit IRC06:42
*** Milhouse has joined #jollamobile06:42
*** GsC_RuL3[ has quit IRC06:48
*** [Afk]GsC_RuL3Z has joined #jollamobile06:49
*** r0kk3rz has joined #jollamobile06:50
*** natunen has quit IRC06:52
*** motalb_ has quit IRC06:55
*** motalc has quit IRC06:56
*** [Afk]GsC_RuL3Z has quit IRC06:57
*** Nc_ has joined #jollamobile06:58
*** [Afk]GsC_RuL3Z has joined #jollamobile06:58
*** motalb has joined #jollamobile07:00
*** motalc has joined #jollamobile07:02
*** gexc has joined #jollamobile07:09
*** Amber_|PC has joined #jollamobile07:13
*** mcuros_ has joined #jollamobile07:30
*** mcuros has quit IRC07:33
*** roboro has joined #jollamobile07:34
*** bef0rd has quit IRC07:48
*** beidl has joined #jollamobile07:52
*** beidl_ has quit IRC07:55
*** protem has quit IRC07:57
*** XenoPL has joined #jollamobile08:02
*** Timo has joined #jollamobile08:04
*** zhxt has joined #jollamobile08:12
*** zhxt has quit IRC08:16
*** lainwir3d has joined #jollamobile08:19
lainwir3dhi08:19
tbrmoaning08:20
Stskeepsnothing like the smell of a shitstorm brewing in the morning08:20
r0kk3rzis the coffee really that bad?08:22
tbrStskeeps: I missed something?08:23
Stskeepstbr: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2nov0n/tell_jolla_not_to_use_crowdfunded_money_to_pay/08:23
* Stskeeps intends on using his weekend for getting some fresh air and perhaps even test out mesa08:24
Stskeepstbr: anyhow, i can commit to the next week's oss discussion meeting (just double confirming it now) .. the only thing if possible is if we can ask people to read through the previous' meetings logs08:25
Stskeepselse it's just going to be a repeat and not constructive for anybody involved08:26
tbrStskeeps: yeah, I need to read the log and then round up the people. I'm a bit unclear on what exactly they want discussed (aside from just continuing the topic, without further defining it)08:27
Stskeepsnod08:27
tbrStskeeps: well, the topic of the post is stormy, but the discussion quickly devloved into technical details, no storm there...08:27
Stskeepsand 492 votes ;)08:28
Stskeepsi think if it has sunk in a bit what i also said, it can be a better discussion .. i mean, part of the reason we're talking like we're talking is to help people understand what it takes to build a mobile OS/device, so they don't have to learn it the hard way by not being able to live up to promises because they didn't learn about X/Y/Z..08:30
Stskeepsand hit that immediately..08:30
tbr*nod*08:30
*** gexc_ has joined #jollamobile08:31
*** mcuros has joined #jollamobile08:32
*** gexc has quit IRC08:32
Stskeepssuch as 'why can't i get rid of this microsoft royalty line in the BoM'08:32
Stskeepsthe best outcome is that people start being able to factually build open devices, because soon, there won't be any open devices to put your open source systems on..08:34
Stskeepsthat anybody would actually use..08:34
Stskeeps:P08:34
* Stskeeps rants08:34
*** mcuros_ has quit IRC08:35
r0kk3rzits definitely a shit position to be in08:35
r0kk3rzbut there are organisations that are fighting patent encumbered standards08:35
r0kk3rzjolla doesnt have to be one of them08:36
Stskeepssure, but pick your battles08:36
r0kk3rzyeah08:36
Stskeepsit's hard enough making an open alternative :)08:36
r0kk3rzyou dont have to be an RMS absolutist08:36
Stskeepsbuilding a device is like a sausage, tastes great but you really don't want to see how it's done.. and we're trying to show that08:36
*** Nightmare__ has joined #jollamobile08:37
Jopestskeeps, hah, eloquently put08:37
Stskeepsand the sometimes awkward truth about it all is that indeed, it's that you're stuffing the pig up it's own intestines08:37
*** Sequenced has joined #jollamobile08:37
r0kk3rzStskeeps: +108:37
locusfit seems that its possible to build a rootfs with some Jolla propietaries installed but with otherwise free UI08:38
locusfand other middleware stack08:38
Stskeepslocusf: i want to use a few weekends to make sure that this stuff is easy to build images against of nemo, at least08:38
locusfbut this doesn't help the purists, theres still propietary software08:38
locusfStskeeps: cool :)08:38
locusfalthough it now appears that I'm doing it wrong and getting a bootloop instead08:39
r0kk3rzan appeasement strategy could be to build in sdcard formatting tools into the settings UI08:39
*** Sinbad has quit IRC08:39
*** ecloud has quit IRC08:39
*** ecloud has joined #jollamobile08:40
*** Sinbad has joined #jollamobile08:40
Stskeepsr0kk3rz: well, yes, but then you have the crowd 'where did my data go'..08:40
Stskeepspeople should spend time in customer care where you can't just ban their bugzilla accounts08:40
Stskeepsit's a sobering moment08:40
r0kk3rzyeah it is always dangerous building in things like that08:42
r0kk3rzbut even if it was done, there is still the bitter pill that money they pledged to jolla in good faith is ending up in the hands of microsoft08:43
r0kk3rzand theres no real way you can spin that08:43
Stskeepsfair08:43
Stskeepsyou can't spin, but you can possible counter08:44
r0kk3rzother than sympathising and saying to support organisations like the FSF08:44
tbrr0kk3rz: the sad thing is, it was already happening beforehand. I'd be willing to bet on that.08:44
Stskeepsfor each exfat royalty pay same amount of money to FSF?08:44
Stskeeps:P08:44
r0kk3rzthats a reasonable PR strategy08:45
tbrI'm sure there is some bit somewhere, like the ODM paying off MS per "android adaptation device patents" or such08:45
Stskeepsyeah.. the pathways of royalties in mobile is fantastic08:46
tbrStskeeps: that would at least show a conscious approach to it08:46
r0kk3rzyeah MS makes patent money off a lot of things in mobile....08:46
*** tadzik has quit IRC08:46
tbrStskeeps: oh, wait there is the AS-daemon. FSF and RMS zealots, I have very bad news for you... :D08:46
Stskeepstbr: as-daemon is installable from store though afaik08:47
Stskeepsbut yeah, the other problem is that there's no 'per installation'08:47
Stskeepsthere's only 'per device'08:47
tbrStskeeps: yes it is, but who knows how the licensing deal is structured08:47
tbrsee...08:47
Stskeepswhich means you then walk over into privacy territory because why u must see what apps i have installed..08:47
Stskeepsor just paint with broad brush08:48
Stskeepsit's a really fun environment.08:48
r0kk3rzyeah must be frustrating at times08:49
Stskeepsi've started to come to the conclusion it's better to spend time being open than to argue openness08:49
Stskeepsie, i could easily turn many of these kind of things / time spent on them into doing more openness/open source/etc08:50
Stskeepsbeing+doing, that is08:50
tbr+108:50
*** jonwil has joined #jollamobile08:50
r0kk3rzpersonally I'm happy with a mostly open platform with a direction of becoming more open08:51
r0kk3rzrather than a previously mostly open platform becoming more closed with every update aka android08:51
*** Sail0r has joined #jollamobile08:52
tbryeah, the direction is something noteworthy08:52
jonwilSeems like Android is becoming more closed over time mostly to A.Give Google more power over phone OEMs and prevent forks ala Amazon and B.To give Google more power over updates by putting as much of the phone OS and software under the control of Google as possible (i.e. avoiding the problem where OEMs and carriers kept releasing FroYo and Gingerbread handsets long after Ice Cream Sandwich...08:55
jonwil...had shown up)08:55
chem|stas this is something new to me can you please elaborate what the difference between sdhc and sdxc realy is? what I understand from the discussion is that the only difference is MS royalties for FAT so manufacturers are "forced" to deny sdxc if they did not pay FAT royalties?08:56
Stskeeps+ they come preformatted08:56
Stskeepsand exfat08:57
Stskeepsnot fat08:57
chem|stbut if I put a 64GB uSD btrfs formatted into the slot, what happens?08:57
Stskeepsbill gates runs after you with a cane08:58
chem|stcause I deleted his precious FS?08:58
Stskeepsthe limitation is artifical to us geeks but not regular consumers08:58
*** Sail0r has quit IRC08:58
chem|st?08:58
*** Sail0r has joined #jollamobile08:59
chem|stso the driver has to make sure that >32GB in exfat is unsupported?08:59
chem|stor is it all SDs in >32GB?09:00
*** HarhaanJohtaja has joined #jollamobile09:01
Stskeepsno, but to advertise and have good consumer experience09:01
chem|st*sigh*09:03
chem|stcan you make a whole sentence out of it please09:03
*** Sail0r has quit IRC09:04
Stskeepslong story short: to advertise SDXC and have a good consumer experience ('my card with my data doesn't work on my device'), you need exfat09:04
salyavinGreater than 32gb are preformatted exFAT less is FAT3209:04
Stskeepsi don't claim to like it but that's how consumer world works..09:04
Stskeepsand we're already hit enough with that device is not friendly .. do we need more reasons for people not to buy a device that actually pushes a lot of open source?09:05
chem|stso let me put that together, you are not allowed to use the term SDXC unless you paid royalties and you are not allowed to support exfat >32GB?09:05
Stskeepschem|st: exfat requires royalities/patents etc and crap09:05
jonwilNo, you aren't allowed to support exFAT at all without paying the royalties09:05
Stskeepsi've seen people be disappointed the device(s) don't support >32gb..09:06
Stskeeps=> lost sales09:06
Stskeepsso it's really a weighing09:06
chem|stjonwil: ah SDXC requires exfat, SDHC does not require exfat (size)09:06
jonwilyep09:06
jonwilSDXC cards all come formatted by default as exFAT09:06
jonwiland SDXC spec requires this09:07
chem|stok09:07
jonwilSDHC cards only use regular FAT3209:07
salyavinSlot works to 2TiB with btrfs, ext4 etc just cannot say SDXC09:07
jonwilyeah you cant claim SDXC unless you pay the exFAT royalties09:07
chem|stStskeeps: that specs are everything for a kickstarter should be known, right?09:07
Stskeepschem|st: rephrase?09:08
chem|stStskeeps: "lost sales" device specs are what drives a kickstarter beyond fans09:09
Stskeepsi .. guess?09:09
Stskeepsi don't know :)09:09
Stskeepsi would really like to see statistics of the kind of people that contributed09:09
salyavinKickstarter is more geeky people I would guess.09:09
Stskeepsi don't believe it's all open source fans09:09
chem|stStskeeps: make a survey after the igg09:10
Stskeepschem|st: yeah09:10
Stskeepsbecause while oss people are very vocal it may very also be that they're not remotely a large part..09:11
Stskeepsthe news got out in a -lot- of interesting places09:11
chem|stif you want to make sure everyone participates, offer a neat jolla cloth for the survey (or even a sleeve)09:11
Stskeeps.. not saying they should be dismissed, just that sometimes we think we have more weight than we do09:11
*** qqK has joined #jollamobile09:12
jonwilI am surprised Microsoft haven't tried to shut down https://github.com/dorimanx/exfat-nofuse or https://code.google.com/p/exfat/ with patent threats.09:12
Stskeepsjonwil: well, until you ship in a consumer device nobody cares typically09:12
Stskeepsthere's nothing to be taken from the typical oss coder09:13
r0kk3rzadd in the fact that people will often trade ideology for convenience09:13
joonahoi'*09:13
jonwilyeah I suspect Microsoft is only interested in spending billable lawyer hours on patent violations when money is being made from something shipping the patent-violating code09:13
joonahoi(my toddler says hi)09:13
Stskeepso/ joonahoi's toddler09:13
Stskeepsr0kk3rz: or privacy for convenience.. AGPS is my favourite one in that regard09:13
r0kk3rzyeah that too09:14
r0kk3rzmany examples of that09:14
chem|stis any of you at 31c3?09:14
Stskeepsnobody wants to wait 20 minutes for a gps fix, so they trade their LAC and surrounding wifi aps to get it faster09:14
*** spider-mario has joined #jollamobile09:14
Stskeepschem|st: when is it anyhow09:15
Stskeepsah.. 27-3009:15
chem|stalways between the years iirc09:15
Stskeepsthat looks like a time i can't take off for once..09:15
mornfallStskeeps: do you have any idea how big the agps database is?09:15
chem|stmornfall: which nokia or google09:16
Stskeepsmornfall: i used to work 3-4 years in university on positioning technologies so i have a pretty good idea09:16
*** Sequenced has quit IRC09:16
mornfalland the ballpark would be?09:16
Stskeepsbig.09:16
jonwilI like Neo900 because its a phone being built for privacy in a way few other phones have been built.09:16
*** Sail0r has joined #jollamobile09:16
Stskeepsbut also worth a lot of money09:16
Stskeepscollecting that data is not simple09:17
Stskeepsand keeping it up to date09:17
mornfallyes, I don't have plans, I was just wondering :-)09:17
chem|stmornfall: they have APs location triangulated all over09:18
tbrchem|st: I'd love to, it depends on my employment outlook though09:18
chem|stStskeeps: there are enough google sheep to have that updated^^09:18
StskeepsFOSDEM is probably my next conference09:18
chem|stthat is belgium right?09:18
jonwilToo bad there is never any of these big hacker conferences anywhere near me here in Brisbane...09:18
Stskeepsyeah09:19
jonwilThey are all in Europe or USA09:19
chem|stfriend of mine asked me...09:19
r0kk3rzjonwil: time to escape to the right hemisphere09:19
mornfallchem|st: dunno, but I'd imagine something like a GB per million APs would be within the ballpark?09:19
chem|str0kk3rz: we are the ones that need to escape!09:19
chem|stmornfall: lol they track a lot more than just ssid+loaction09:20
mornfallchem|st: also, BTS coordinates I guess?09:20
r0kk3rzi escaped my little island09:20
r0kk3rzfor a slightly bigger island on the other side of the planet09:20
mornfallchem|st: well, how much more? what else is there to track?09:20
mornfallchem|st: (bssid btw)09:20
jonwilI have no plans to ever set foot in the USA, not whilst politicians on both sides of the fence continue to ignore what is best for the people of America, for the US economy or for the country as a whole and continue to do all sorts of crap few people would actually say yes to if given the chance.09:21
tigelimornfall: actually.. the mobile operators co-operate with the officials nowadays to get data from traffic congestions just by tracking mobile device movement within cells09:22
tigelis/from/for/09:22
mornfallchem|st: (also note I counted 1K per AP, that fits a lot more than the 6-byte BSSID and location)09:22
chem|stmornfall: you have hundreds of trackpoints per AP, they try to locate the AP, and verify signalstrength against location, also tracking what the AP is09:22
r0kk3rzi suppose AGPS is just a cheap way of having terrestrial positioning transmitters09:23
tbrAGPS is complicated09:23
jonwilEurope seems to be going the wrong direction too09:23
tbrit can mean many things09:23
tbrthen there is also DGPS09:23
r0kk3rzsurely it could be adequately done with mobile towers rather than tracking private wifi09:23
chem|str0kk3rz: AGPS used to be just that, adding WLAN is can help you even inside buildings09:24
r0kk3rzyeah true09:24
jonwilMany EU countries are just as guilty of wholesale spying and privacy violations as the USA is09:24
tigelir0kk3rz: well.. is the ssid broadcast private if you are publicly yelling it?-)09:24
r0kk3rztigeli: valid point09:24
mornfallit just adds precision, not necessarily within buildings (you usually have GSM signal in buildings :P)09:25
tbrmobile phone tower triangulation based on device RSSI can get you 100-500m accuracy in urban and 2-3km in rural areas09:25
chem|stso the WLAN map works without GPS actually, and in bigger cities you need that to have precise location services09:25
tbrwifi can be down to <5m09:25
krnlyngare there any groups of people who would like to buy the micro-distributor starterkit collectively?09:25
chem|sttbr: nokia manages to be within 5m for my "home" location09:26
mornfallhm, $2.5M is probably not going to happen09:26
chem|stkrnlyng: I started a question on TJC09:26
mornfallwlan maps only work in cities, really09:27
tbrchem|st: yes, I know something about that...09:27
mornfallat least in towns around here, it's still common that you only see like 2 bssid's at most places09:27
chem|stmornfall: it worked pretty well on the spanish coast (costa del sol)09:27
mornfall(and one of those is a long-range ISP wifi :)09:28
jonwilI just wish there was a SANE country left on this earth. One that wont spy on all their citizens (and will do whatever they can to stop other countries spying on their citizens). One that will make big corporations pay the tax they are supposed to pay and wont let them get away with using loopholes to pay less tax. One that doesn't give a cent in subsidies to companies that mine fossil fuels...09:28
jonwil...or use them to generate electricity.09:28
jonwilOne that wont bow down to pressure from the USA on IP laws09:28
jonwilor try to censor the Internet09:28
tigelitbr: http://goo.gl/I82osw :)09:29
mornfalljonwil: try martian colony 109:29
chem|stlets take over NZ and make it a hacker habitat09:29
mornfallchem|st: a hacker country would probably fail spectacularly :P09:29
chem|stmornfall: eek, I don't mean to make hackers politicians09:30
chem|styou see how that fails with the eu pirates09:30
tigelijonwil: you would have to shoot down the satellites to protect your people ;)09:30
lainwir3dhehe09:31
mornfallchem|st: actually, czech pirates are doing fairly well... I'd be more worried about libertarians though09:31
tbrtigeli: I disagree with the "must be active" part, it's an oversimplified view on things. you just get much less position data.09:31
mornfalltigeli: domed countries09:31
tbrjourney to the centre of the earth anyone? ;)09:32
jonwilI dont really see satellites as a problem, if you can be seen by a satellite, you probably shouldn't have an expectation of privacy anyway09:32
tbrmr president, we can't allow a mineshaft gap!09:32
tigelitbr: I do also..09:32
*** Nightmare__ has quit IRC09:32
mornfalljonwil: in a walled backyard, say? :)09:33
tigelitbr: but the fact is that they are tracking us already.. just by fact that we are using their network09:33
*** wazd__ has joined #jollamobile09:33
*** wazd__ is now known as wazd09:33
jonwilOh and while we are at it, lets take this ideal free country with all these great attributes and lets build a massive data haven ala Cryptonomicon09:33
tbrtigeli: yes, ofc09:33
mornfallthe defense is not to hide from sight, but to stay within the background noise09:34
tigelitbr: it's like.. "let's see where the lemmings are going.." :D09:34
jonwilBuild the Internet data equivilant of what Swiss Banks are for financial stuff09:35
jonwilCombine it with a new generation crypto-currency that has all the good things about Bitcoin but adds true anonymity to the mix.09:36
chem|stkrnlyng: add your country to your answer09:37
chem|stguess people won't groupbuy outside their countries09:37
*** BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil09:37
*** eleroux has joined #jollamobile09:38
Nc_jonwil, you lot planning a second Principality of Sealand? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand09:39
krnlyngchem|st: i've added it09:39
krnlyngchem|st: i know another person from my country who would probably join09:39
krnlyngchem|st: but is it difficult to send the devices to different countries if needed (no idea about shipping and stuff)09:40
r0kk3rzhacker moon colony, only immigration requirement is that you have to get to the moon09:40
r0kk3rzthat should be a sufficiently high bar09:40
chem|stkrnlyng: you pay taxes where it is initially received, and shipping outside of your country is probably more expensive than inside09:45
Acceyay one micro-perk gone!09:46
*** TMavica has quit IRC09:47
ggabrielwaaat09:49
*** eleroux1 has joined #jollamobile09:54
*** vode has quit IRC09:55
*** vode has joined #jollamobile09:56
*** eleroux has quit IRC09:57
*** Sail0r has quit IRC09:57
kimmoligetting close to $1M over the goal09:58
locusfis there a hardware limitation that prevents the Jolla from booting the kernel is too new compared to the underlying system?09:59
*** calderon_ has quit IRC09:59
r0kk3rzStskeeps: reading through the last oss meeting logs, that definitely deserves doing up into a blog post of sorts09:59
*** calderon_ has joined #jollamobile10:00
*** dhbiker has quit IRC10:00
*** dhbiker has joined #jollamobile10:01
lainwir3dDo you think we'll make it to $1.750.000 :-/10:04
lainwir3d?10:04
AL13Nit would be nice... but i guess we'll have to donate if we want to get there10:05
lainwir3ddamn... a second jolla tablet ? :-o10:07
lainwir3di credit card is going to cry10:07
r0kk3rzi'll have to buy one upon release I think, cant really afford it right now10:08
*** joered has joined #jollamobile10:08
*** RzR is now known as rZr10:08
*** mkollaro has joined #jollamobile10:11
AL13Nlainwir3d: you can still just donate money without perks10:13
lainwir3dtrue10:13
AL13Nbut getting a second one isn't a bad idea10:13
AL13Nthat way i can sell it at a later date to one of my friends or so10:13
HarhaanJohtajaif they add more countries it might be possible10:14
lainwir3dyeah10:16
lainwir3dhaha, I git the badge "Necromancer" on TJC10:16
lainwir3d"Answered a question more than 30 days later with at least 1 votes"10:16
lainwir3dfunny :P10:16
ggabrieli've got one of those too10:20
ggabrielbest badge ever10:20
lainwir3dhehe10:21
stephgning!10:21
*** uvatbc has joined #jollamobile10:22
*** ortylp has joined #jollamobile10:27
*** friese has joined #jollamobile10:30
*** lukedirtwalker has joined #jollamobile10:31
lukedirtwalkerSo in harbour dashboard is always those example reviews not real reviews? Why don't you just hide it then10:31
*** ttyS3 has quit IRC10:32
Morpog_PChi luke, going to try new version, just need to delete cache, as my 1.5.0 version started to crash just yesterday after over a month of usage10:32
lukedirtwalkerMorpog_PC: no then don't delete cache!10:33
Morpog_PCwell, I need to, I updated to new version and it still crashes10:34
lukedirtwalkeroh okay well then that's all I needed to know10:34
Morpog_PCwell, maybe the new version doesn't get the cache in such a state that it crashes?10:35
lukedirtwalkerMorpog_PC: hopefully but I don't think so10:37
Morpog_PCadded lots of playlists to offline sync atm, so I will see soon :D10:39
Morpog_PCnow that I moved over storage to sdcard it's not a space problem anymore :)10:39
Morpog_PCthis should be really a setting10:40
*** boom1992 has joined #jollamobile10:41
lukedirtwalkerMorpog_PC: yeah it would need a filepicker10:41
Morpog_PCwhy? just default SDCard location10:41
Morpog_PCin a hidden folder10:41
lukedirtwalkergood idea10:41
Yanielare you talking about cutespotify here?10:42
Morpog_PCfor advanced options later, it could ask to move storage over when activating it. At least it should delete the cache on old storage path when selecting new storage.10:43
Morpog_PCYaniel, yes10:43
*** sec has joined #jollamobile10:43
Morpog_PCcutespotify and mitakuuluu are my most used 3rd party apps on sailfishos10:44
Morpog_PCplus tweetian10:44
Yanielyou took over mitakuuluu?10:44
Morpog_PCerr, no?10:44
Yanielwasn't it coderus' project10:44
Morpog_PCit still is10:44
Morpog_PCwhat makes you think I took it over?10:45
lukedirtwalkerdamn whatsapp blocked me otherwise it would be the same for me10:45
Yanieloh you mean the apps you use most10:45
Morpog_PCstill using mitakuuluu and still not banned/blocked :D10:45
Morpog_PCYaniel, yep10:45
Yanielnot the most popular ones you work on10:45
Morpog_PCYaniel, ?10:46
Morpog_PCI don't really work on any apps :D10:46
*** eleroux1 has quit IRC10:46
lukedirtwalkerYes with all the icons ;)10:46
Morpog_PCI just contribute some graphics here and there and sometimes a bit QML code10:46
secTox works well too.10:50
* Nc_ eyes Morpog_PC for some graphics10:58
Morpog_PCwhat do you need?10:59
r0kk3rzmoar graphics!11:00
Nc_Nothing right now, but may need an icon-replacement later if I cannot get approval for the one I have :)11:00
r0kk3rza better icon for sirensong might be nice, as i realised that I subconsiously ripped off an apple design11:01
*** Venemo has joined #jollamobile11:02
*** jua_ has joined #jollamobile11:04
Morpog_PCredrawn or copy+paste rip off?11:07
Morpog_PCredrawn shouldn't be a real problem11:07
*** vode_ has joined #jollamobile11:08
*** Kabouik_ has joined #jollamobile11:08
*** bef0rd has joined #jollamobile11:09
*** birdzhang has joined #jollamobile11:09
*** vode has quit IRC11:10
*** vode_ is now known as vode11:10
*** Kabouik has quit IRC11:11
*** blueboxthief has joined #jollamobile11:12
*** blueboxthief1 has joined #jollamobile11:12
r0kk3rzredrawn11:13
r0kk3rzmore of a look and feel rip off than a direct copypasta11:13
*** blueboxthief has quit IRC11:16
*** blueboxthief1 has quit IRC11:16
*** zhxt has joined #jollamobile11:16
*** Sail0r has joined #jollamobile11:17
*** blueboxthief has joined #jollamobile11:18
*** birdzhang has quit IRC11:24
*** Kabouik_ has quit IRC11:27
*** sec has quit IRC11:32
*** Kabouik has joined #jollamobile11:34
*** Porkepix has quit IRC11:34
*** jonwil has quit IRC11:36
*** blueboxthief has quit IRC11:47
*** alight has joined #jollamobile11:49
*** alight is now known as hankeypancake11:52
Stskeepsmm, fresh air11:53
*** zhxt has quit IRC11:54
*** disharmonic has joined #jollamobile11:55
*** mkollaro has quit IRC11:58
*** ttyS3 has joined #jollamobile12:00
*** anonfriese has joined #jollamobile12:02
*** Teemu has quit IRC12:02
*** hankeypancake has quit IRC12:02
*** friese has quit IRC12:06
sledgeswhair?12:08
*** Sailor11736 has joined #jollamobile12:10
* sledges pops http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii174/MommyPhathom/GIFs/perriair1.gif and goes back to work12:13
Stskeepson a saturday?12:14
Stskeeps:P12:14
*** tadzik has joined #jollamobile12:14
* tbr mumbles something about overworked and burnout waiting to happen12:16
sledgesburnouts happen when it's boring.. bornout? :D12:20
Stskeepstbr: idly pondering if i'm heading that wa12:21
Stskeepsy12:21
tbrsledges: that's bored out of your mind, the other end of the scale. Something I'm currently trying to avoid by doing random things in open source most of my time.12:25
*** arcean has joined #jollamobile12:26
tbrStskeeps: staying sane in this business is very hard, very very hard. one must strive to though, there is no value if you overdo it and then don't finish what you started.12:26
Stskeepsnod12:26
Stskeepsspeaking of sanity, could your push stuff work over wlan-ap or bluetooth pan?12:26
Stskeepsor does it require a more centralized server12:27
Stskeepsthinking device to device12:27
sledgestbr: the discussion is flying over the cockoo's nest ;)12:28
tadzikhmm, android apps don't work for me for the last couple of days12:29
* tbr ponders if that was an intentional spelling12:29
tadzikno amount of restarting aliendalvik or the device itself changes anything12:29
*** msvb-lab has joined #jollamobile12:29
tbrStskeeps: I did run the server on the jolla too for experiments.12:29
Stskeepstbr: because first thing i think about is how to work tablet and phone together somehow12:30
Stskeepsand doesn't make sense to NIH it12:30
tbrStskeeps: I'm not sure if a decentralized system would be ideal to build on the MQTT protocol, but it's worth thinking about it.12:30
sledges:D12:30
tbrtadzik: do you have apkd installed?12:31
Stskeepsespecially if tablet is using wlan ap from phone12:31
tbrtadzik: if that doesn't fix it, remove aliendalvik, purge the android directory structure (you will lose apps and their data, you can try making a backup)12:31
tbrStskeeps: it's certainly an interesting use case to be thought about. First they'd need to find each other, that is also a solved problem (in many ways like avahi or broadcast or ipv6-all-nodes)12:32
Stskeepswell, yeah12:33
tbrif I reflect the local usecase from my concept for the push system, then I find this to be different in some ways. So likely a quite different approach would be sensible. (In my setup there is a central server/cluster with TLS and trust)12:38
Stskeepsnod12:38
Stskeepsidly wondering12:38
entiltbr: gcm-style push for jolla?12:40
tadziktbr: installing apkd helped, thanks. That makes me wonder, why wasn't it there before?12:40
tbrentil: yes, I'm working on something like that in my idle cycles12:41
tbrentil: completely open source12:41
entilsweet!12:41
Stskeeps(contributions welcome)12:41
tbrentil: based around MQTT and mosquitto12:41
entilrelevant to my interests, probably, cuz I'm working on textsecure in my idle cycles12:41
entilI just got the server running locally with gcm disabled12:42
entil(and apn)12:42
entilmaybe when jolla push is done, it should be implemented in the textsecure server, if it's superior to websockets12:42
Stskeepsatm it's tbr push, but a very good candidate for jolla push12:43
tbrcurrently I'm holding things license wise close to my chest (GPLv3, CC-BY-NC-SA, ...), but keep it relicenseable to something more flexible.12:43
entiltbr push, then ;)12:44
tbrif jolla wants it otherwise, they can talk to me, it may or may not come with a price tag12:44
*** Morpog_PC has quit IRC12:44
Stskeepsnod12:44
tbrsadly Icecast (my main open source project) took a lot of cycles12:44
*** Morpog_PC has joined #jollamobile12:44
tbrso I haven't made much visible progress12:44
tbrI started defining a DBUS api for on device12:45
tbrand have a rough concept in my mind for the server side processing12:45
tbrwith Icecast 2.4.1 out, I /might/ make the time for this12:45
tbrI have some well working proof of concept code for the transport layer12:46
Stskeepstotal topic change.. if the stuff handling fastboot is a linux kernel + binaries, what do you want to have it do?12:46
tbrbtw, Stskeeps did anything change in IPHB from U8 to U9? I've noticed some weird differences, sometimes things stall12:46
Stskeepstbr: spiironen would probably know12:46
tbr*nod*12:46
tbrmight also be connman that loses connectivity. would need to look closer12:47
Stskeepsmaybe we should have made connman a stretch goal12:47
tbrassessinate connman: 2.5M12:47
tbrStskeeps: that fastboot thing gives me a blast from the past... linux+initramfs based bootloaders...12:49
Stskeepswell, this is not a bootloader12:49
Stskeepsefilinux or something12:49
*** arcean has quit IRC12:49
beidlhello fine folks12:49
Stskeepsloads a boot image style thing in fastboot mode12:50
*** arcean has joined #jollamobile12:50
*** sec has joined #jollamobile12:50
tbrwell second stage loader12:50
tbror third, fourth, depending on layers12:50
tbrStskeeps: is recovery going to be yet another kernel+initramfs or folded into that?12:51
Stskeepskernel+initramfs probably, different button combo12:52
tbr*nod*12:54
tbrat the very least it should oem unlock and boot a kernel provided over USB. Bonus points if you can adjust boot options, e.g. make it look for a system on the µSD before trying eMMC12:55
Stskeepsyeah.. let's see what's possible12:55
Stskeepseven signed 'here's a recovery flash on microsd' is quite useful in care12:56
tbryes12:56
beidlany insights on how the partition layout is going to look like on the tablet?13:03
Stskeepshow'd you like it to look?13:04
Stskeeps:P13:04
beidlgot to say, I've become a fan of running a full-btrfs setup on /dev/sda on my SSD13:05
Stskeepsso, ssd connected to usb? :p13:05
beidlgrabing that layout by its balls and moving it to the tablets internal NAND certainly would be cool13:06
beidlnot having partitions in between that could take and waste space + cross subvolume dedup13:07
locusfoh ohsw is today13:07
tbrStskeeps: on that hw, I'd hope for either a fast eMMC or an embedded sata ssd13:09
Stskeepswouldn't a ssd be like half the price?13:10
Stskeepsor well, 32gb..13:10
*** japplo has joined #jollamobile13:10
Stskeepsok, 44 usd13:10
*** japplo has left #jollamobile13:10
Stskeepsgah, seems like i don't have a working set of cables+converters for usb otg at home13:11
tbrseriously? :D13:12
Stskeepsseriously13:12
Stskeepsi never got into it much with n80013:12
*** hankeypancake has joined #jollamobile13:13
kimmoli+1 for booting from SD...13:13
* tbr has a pile of various simple cables (micro a or micro-ab to USB-A) and one true OTG cable with mini-B to mini-a13:14
tbrbbl13:15
secI WANT TO BREAK FREEEE13:15
* sec runs13:15
*** hankeypancake has quit IRC13:18
*** matsimoto1 has joined #jollamobile13:18
*** pawky|2 has quit IRC13:18
*** pawky|2 has joined #jollamobile13:19
*** lukedirtwalker has quit IRC13:23
r0kk3rzi dont think ive ever used usbotg13:25
*** mkollaro has joined #jollamobile13:35
*** Behold has joined #jollamobile13:42
*** bef0rd has quit IRC13:45
*** mcuros has quit IRC13:45
*** mcuros_ has joined #jollamobile13:45
*** Porkepix has joined #jollamobile13:48
*** Porkepix has quit IRC13:51
*** FlashAsparagus has joined #jollamobile13:53
*** jua__ has joined #jollamobile13:54
*** jua_ has quit IRC13:56
tbrr0kk3rz: I've never used true OTG, only the "easy" variety where you tie the ID pin to something and the controller goes to host mode so that you can attach a usb storage or usb-serial device13:56
r0kk3rztbr i thought that was what usbotg was, intelligent host mode for mobile devices13:57
*** ottulonen has quit IRC13:59
*** ottulonen has joined #jollamobile13:59
tbrr0kk3rz: it's much more, if you think you can stay sane, look deeper down into the rabbit hole of dynamic mode negotiation and other things13:59
tbrthe statemachine is huge that I saw13:59
r0kk3rzyeah right14:00
r0kk3rzsounds like fun14:00
*** Nc_ has quit IRC14:02
*** blueboxthief has joined #jollamobile14:06
*** tomyri has quit IRC14:10
*** tomyri has joined #jollamobile14:11
*** Porkepix has joined #jollamobile14:15
*** rainemak has quit IRC14:18
*** mcuros has joined #jollamobile14:21
*** Swan__ has joined #jollamobile14:22
*** Nc_ has joined #jollamobile14:24
*** mcuros_ has quit IRC14:24
*** anonfriese has quit IRC14:27
*** friese has joined #jollamobile14:28
* Stskeeps is learning way too much about UEFI14:28
r0kk3rzits certainly a bag of cats, to use your expression :P14:33
*** mcuros_ has joined #jollamobile14:40
*** spider-mario has quit IRC14:40
*** mcuros has quit IRC14:42
*** sec has quit IRC14:43
*** sec has joined #jollamobile14:44
*** mcuros_ has quit IRC14:44
*** Timo has quit IRC14:44
*** Porkepix has quit IRC14:45
*** Ariadeno has joined #jollamobile14:48
*** mcuros_ has joined #jollamobile14:51
*** mcuros has joined #jollamobile14:51
*** SKyd3R has joined #jollamobile14:51
SKyd3Ryey14:52
Stskeepsmm?14:53
*** Sail0r has quit IRC14:54
*** mcuros_ has quit IRC14:55
*** h4PPYC4T has joined #jollamobile14:57
*** mjones_ has joined #jollamobile15:00
*** pXd has quit IRC15:01
*** mjones has quit IRC15:01
*** spider-mario has joined #jollamobile15:02
*** pXd has joined #jollamobile15:03
*** pawky|2 has quit IRC15:05
*** matsimoto1 has quit IRC15:05
*** pawky|2 has joined #jollamobile15:05
*** matsimoto has joined #jollamobile15:05
*** h4PPYC4T has quit IRC15:06
*** sec has quit IRC15:09
*** faiden has quit IRC15:09
*** Amber_|PC has quit IRC15:10
anYcdoes someone know if the games of the humblebundle are playable on the jolla? https://www.humblebundle.com/mobile15:13
*** pXd has quit IRC15:14
*** faiden has joined #jollamobile15:15
*** h4PPYC4T has joined #jollamobile15:15
*** Amber_ has joined #jollamobile15:16
*** dhbiker has quit IRC15:19
*** pawky|2 has quit IRC15:19
*** pawky|2 has joined #jollamobile15:20
*** dhbiker has joined #jollamobile15:20
*** Sequenced_ has joined #jollamobile15:26
lainwir3dbetter a bag of cats than a bag of rats15:29
Nc_?15:30
SKyd3Rlol, https://www.fsf.org/givingguide/2014/ not Jolla :/15:32
FireFlyHardly a surprise, is it?15:32
SKyd3Rwhy? It was for me15:33
SKyd3RI hardly see an Android based system being supported by FSF15:34
*** Sail0r has joined #jollamobile15:34
FireFlyProprietary UI bits etc etc15:35
FireFlySupposedly the particular Android flavour they mention makes sure to not include anything non-FOSS15:35
SKyd3Rok, I get it15:37
SKyd3R:(15:38
r0kk3rzyeah its not android, its replicant15:39
r0kk3rzsimilar, but different in key ways15:39
* tbr wonders if a FSF blessed android device comes with a bank of WORM chips for all the binary blobs15:42
SKyd3Rthe thing is that if I don't happen to have a mobile device supported by replicant, I can't use it15:42
*** pXd has joined #jollamobile15:43
SKyd3RI have to buy an Android device in order to delete Android and have replicant15:43
*** pXd has quit IRC15:44
*** mornfall has quit IRC15:45
SKyd3Rand maby I won't be able to use the Camera/GPS or whatever15:45
SKyd3RI don't see it has an iOS alternative15:45
*** mornfall has joined #jollamobile15:46
*** h4PPYC4T has quit IRC15:47
*** Kabouik has quit IRC15:50
*** hankeypancake has joined #jollamobile15:51
r0kk3rzhttp://redmine.replicant.us/projects/replicant/wiki/ReplicantImages15:53
r0kk3rzthats a fairly short list of device images15:53
r0kk3rzand they're all old phones15:54
*** mkollaro has quit IRC15:56
*** Kabouik has joined #jollamobile16:05
*** M4rtinK has joined #jollamobile16:07
*** Kabouik_ has joined #jollamobile16:09
*** FlashAsp_ has joined #jollamobile16:10
*** FlashAsparagus has quit IRC16:13
*** gogeta_ has joined #jollamobile16:14
*** rsz has joined #jollamobile16:14
*** Sail0r has quit IRC16:18
*** Shinryuu has joined #jollamobile16:20
*** gogeta_ is now known as dr_gogeta8616:24
*** matsimoto has quit IRC16:28
*** Sail0r has joined #jollamobile16:29
*** Sail0r has quit IRC16:33
*** Sail0r has joined #jollamobile16:33
SKyd3Ryeah, but what I'm saying is that I have to buy those phones in order to can put replicant on them16:34
SKyd3RI don't have any of those16:34
YanielanYc: try it out?16:36
*** Swan__ has quit IRC16:37
*** Sailor-2gether has joined #jollamobile16:37
*** Sail0r has quit IRC16:39
*** Sequenced has joined #jollamobile16:44
*** Sequenced_ has quit IRC16:44
*** protem has joined #jollamobile16:51
*** FlashAsparagus has joined #jollamobile16:52
*** Ariadeno has quit IRC16:53
*** FlashAsp_ has quit IRC16:54
*** Ariadeno has joined #jollamobile16:57
*** Sequenced has quit IRC17:00
*** Sequenced_ has joined #jollamobile17:01
*** sec has joined #jollamobile17:07
*** cristi has joined #jollamobile17:08
*** uvatbc has quit IRC17:10
*** Kabouik_ has quit IRC17:12
*** protem has quit IRC17:12
*** msava has quit IRC17:16
*** jua__ has quit IRC17:17
*** cristi has quit IRC17:19
*** jua_ has joined #jollamobile17:19
*** matsimoto has joined #jollamobile17:20
*** msava has joined #jollamobile17:20
*** martyone has joined #jollamobile17:20
*** FlameReaper-PC has quit IRC17:23
*** FlameReaper-PC has joined #jollamobile17:23
*** tetris4 has joined #jollamobile17:25
*** robotanarchy has joined #jollamobile17:25
*** Ariadeno has quit IRC17:26
*** uvatbc has joined #jollamobile17:27
*** boom1992 has quit IRC17:32
*** disharmonic has quit IRC17:34
*** hge has quit IRC17:34
*** VDVsx has quit IRC17:35
*** disharmonic has joined #jollamobile17:35
*** Morpog_PC__ has joined #jollamobile17:44
*** Morpog_PC has quit IRC17:47
*** boom1992 has joined #jollamobile17:50
*** Porkepix has joined #jollamobile18:05
*** Shinryuu has quit IRC18:10
*** matsimoto has quit IRC18:17
*** krnlyng has quit IRC18:18
*** krnlyng has joined #jollamobile18:18
*** vadim27 has joined #jollamobile18:19
*** martyone has quit IRC18:20
*** [Afk]GsC_RuL3Z is now known as GsC_RuL3Z18:24
*** dr_gogeta86 has quit IRC18:25
*** disharmonic has quit IRC18:32
*** disharmonic has joined #jollamobile18:33
*** disharmonic has quit IRC18:35
*** disharmonic has joined #jollamobile18:35
*** rsz has quit IRC18:39
*** mkollaro has joined #jollamobile18:44
*** gexc_ has quit IRC18:45
*** Jettis_ has quit IRC18:45
*** Jettis has joined #jollamobile18:45
*** xhaakon has quit IRC18:45
*** gexc__ has joined #jollamobile18:45
*** xhaakon has joined #jollamobile18:45
*** deztruct1r has joined #jollamobile18:47
*** phlixi_ has joined #jollamobile18:47
stephgapropos of nothing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daysCqmqd2Y18:48
*** javispedro has joined #jollamobile18:48
*** deztructor has quit IRC18:49
stephgit is peculiarly spellbinding18:49
*** phlixi has quit IRC18:49
*** Kiranos has quit IRC18:51
*** roboro has quit IRC18:51
*** Kiranos has joined #jollamobile18:51
*** roboro has joined #jollamobile18:51
*** mattaustin has quit IRC18:52
*** jrayhawk has joined #jollamobile18:56
*** gexc has joined #jollamobile18:56
*** gexc__ has quit IRC18:56
*** jrayhawk_ has quit IRC18:56
*** mattaustin has joined #jollamobile18:58
*** lainwir3d has quit IRC19:01
*** onurati has joined #jollamobile19:07
*** gexc_ has joined #jollamobile19:09
*** gexc has quit IRC19:09
*** swift110_ has joined #jollamobile19:11
*** swift110_ has joined #jollamobile19:12
*** Porkepix has quit IRC19:17
*** GsC_RuL3Z is now known as [Afk]GsC_RuL3Z19:17
*** furikku has quit IRC19:30
*** SKyd3R has quit IRC19:31
*** Zotan has joined #jollamobile19:37
*** Nightmare__ has joined #jollamobile19:37
*** SailorJolla has joined #jollamobile19:43
*** SailorJolla has quit IRC19:43
*** FlashAsparagus has quit IRC19:53
*** FlashAsparagus has joined #jollamobile19:54
*** wazd has quit IRC19:54
*** Sailor-2gether has quit IRC19:57
*** dhbiker has quit IRC19:57
*** FlashAsparagus has quit IRC19:58
*** mkollaro has quit IRC20:01
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC20:07
*** SpeedEvil has joined #jollamobile20:08
*** Porkepix has joined #jollamobile20:08
*** FlashAsparagus has joined #jollamobile20:10
*** FlashAsp_ has joined #jollamobile20:12
coderusi really need any working way to remove that FU***NG autostart of android apps.20:12
*** FlashAsparagus has quit IRC20:15
*** Shinryuu has joined #jollamobile20:16
*** eleroux has joined #jollamobile20:17
r0kk3rzcoderus: surely you can write a script to kill dalvik on boot20:18
*** Nc_ has quit IRC20:24
*** boom1992 has quit IRC20:25
javispedroor try to do it in whatever way android guys do it20:26
coderusyou dont understand20:27
coderusi need to disable anroid apps autostart20:27
alteregor0kk3rz: would make more sense disabling the dalvik service through systemctl20:27
r0kk3rzor that20:27
alteregocoderus: what javis said?20:28
javispedro... specially because if you kill the dalvik service then android apps don't work..20:28
r0kk3rzalthough i think we arent getting what you mean coderus20:29
coderusalterego: yes, that way20:30
coderusi tired of skype, hangouts and other starting and logging automatically20:30
salyavin        systemctl stop aliendalvik.service20:31
salyavin        systemctl disable aliendalvik.service20:31
salyavinthat's clean it right up20:31
_inte_coderus: https://together.jolla.com/question/60500/alien-dalvik-how-to-stop-autostart/20:31
javispedro.oO(meh, for a second I thought someone MAY have been complaining about the qcom android crap)20:31
_inte_you need to copy the script from over there20:32
*** Sail0r has joined #jollamobile20:32
_inte_it looks like it would work20:32
phaeroncoderus: maybe https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.rs.autorun&hl=en20:32
*** swift110_ has quit IRC20:32
phaeroncheck what it does and script it20:33
* _inte_ personally hits the "dalvik stop!"button after eacht reboot20:33
*** javispedro has quit IRC20:33
_inte_oh. or do you rather want to keep dalvik alive but have no apps autostarted?20:33
*** phaeron has quit IRC20:39
*** Kabouik_ has joined #jollamobile20:43
salyavinWhile I'm not running skype would it not have an option inside it to not autostart?20:43
*** Kabouik has quit IRC20:45
*** Shinryuu has quit IRC20:45
_inte_i installed it once and i think it doesnt autostart for me even when dalvik is running20:46
salyavinphaeron mentioned autorun manager looks very promising.  I see it is also available outside google play20:46
_inte_hangout is beeing autostarted and i dont know how to kill that20:46
_inte_i mean, apart from "Dalvik stop!"20:46
*** javispedro has joined #jollamobile20:47
salyavinhttp://www.androidpit.com/autorun-manager-prevent-automatic-startups20:47
salyavinshould work for most things.  Goodness things could get out of control on an android phone.20:47
coderus_inte_: yep, when you starting any app all dalvik autostarts are running20:48
_inte_so you want dalvik running but no apps?20:49
coderusi want to disable android apps autostart20:50
coderusit have no any other meaning than default20:50
coderusand all apps i tried not working on jolla20:51
coderusmeans apps for managing autostarts20:51
*** arcean has quit IRC20:51
_inte_like https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=imoblife.startupmanager20:52
_inte_?20:52
_inte_I have never tried that, Im just killing dalvik, sorry20:53
*** Shinryuu has joined #jollamobile20:53
*** arcean has joined #jollamobile20:53
*** jonwil has joined #jollamobile20:53
_inte_but since android processes appear in e.g. lighthouse as well it should be quite simple to kill those unwanted processes through a script20:54
*** wickwire has joined #jollamobile20:54
_inte_similar like the dalvik stop! script20:54
_inte_havent tried that yet, though20:54
*** friese has quit IRC20:55
*** phaeron has joined #jollamobile20:56
*** Sequenced has joined #jollamobile20:59
r0kk3rzwouldnt it be better to switch off the autostart in the offending apps21:00
r0kk3rzi know you can with skype21:00
*** Sequenced_ has quit IRC21:03
salyavinSo you have seen the option inside Android Skype for certain r0kk3rz?  How about Hangouts for _inte_21:06
coderusah really i understand i choosed wrong channel to ask initially :D21:06
salyavinwell coderus what channel do you think is good?  You're running aliendalvik which is not quite real android so not sure asking in an android channel would work.21:07
_inte_worth a try21:07
_inte_however21:07
*** Sail0r has quit IRC21:08
_inte_coderus have you checked this startupmanager?21:08
_inte_was my first hit on google and seems to work on real android21:08
salyavinIt's a good warning for me about installing things like hangouts that might autostart.21:08
alteregoI really doubt hangouts would have a don't start button. Doesn't seem like something google would do :P21:08
*** Morpog_PC__ has quit IRC21:08
*** sec has quit IRC21:09
_inte_im not even sure if its possible to disable whatsapp21:09
coderusnevermind21:09
coderusi'll stop asking and tell you if i found something working21:10
_inte_i mean whatsapp not mitakuuluu21:10
*** phaeron has quit IRC21:13
*** FlameReaper-PC has quit IRC21:13
*** stuartmd has joined #jollamobile21:16
*** Sequenced_ has joined #jollamobile21:20
*** Sequenced has quit IRC21:20
*** Sail0r has joined #jollamobile21:21
*** AlmAck has joined #jollamobile21:23
*** Sail0r has quit IRC21:26
*** phaeron has joined #jollamobile21:31
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile21:33
*** bennypr0fane has joined #jollamobile21:35
*** ttyS3 has quit IRC21:38
*** r0kk3rz has quit IRC21:45
*** Sailor11736 has quit IRC21:49
*** nodevel has quit IRC21:53
*** nodevel has joined #jollamobile21:53
*** pvanhoof has joined #jollamobile21:56
*** vode has quit IRC21:58
*** Shinryuu has quit IRC21:59
*** FlashAsparagus has joined #jollamobile22:10
*** FlashAsp_ has quit IRC22:13
*** msvb-lab has quit IRC22:15
*** ortylp has quit IRC22:17
*** eleroux has quit IRC22:20
narchiesaapunki when22:28
*** swift110_ has joined #jollamobile22:31
StskeepsM4rtinK: also, while i have you.. how much do you know about UEFI?22:34
M4rtinKStskeeps: mostly some basics unfortunately22:35
*** stuartmd has quit IRC22:36
M4rtinKStskeeps: but know a few people who are pretty well versed in it22:36
Stskeepsok22:37
Stskeepsi guess a pretty good test of openness is if people can boot fedora22:38
M4rtinKfirst of them is Adam Williamson - he had a quite through talk about UEFI on Flock this year:22:39
M4rtinKhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmoeEM_eCQo22:39
M4rtinK"UEFI: The Great Satan and you" :)22:39
Stskeepsok, i'll watch that22:39
Stskeepsand yes, it certainly feels like i'm hugging satan..22:39
Stskeeps:P22:39
M4rtinKand he is behind the Fedlet project (getting Fedora to run on bay trail tablets)22:40
M4rtinKhttps://www.happyassassin.net/fedlet-a-fedora-remix-for-bay-trail-tablets/22:40
M4rtinK(I'm sure I've already posted this link :) )22:40
M4rtinKso I would say a perfect match for this initiative :)22:40
Stskeepsyeah i saw that one before22:40
M4rtinKyou can usually get hold of him on #fedora-qa (here on freenode) in european afternoon/evening (he is in the west coast timezone)22:42
M4rtinKnick: adamw22:42
Stskeepsok22:42
*** vadim27 has quit IRC22:43
*** lpotter has quit IRC22:49
*** lpotter has joined #jollamobile22:49
M4rtinKand if everything else fails22:50
M4rtinKyou might want to try asking Peter Jones :)22:50
M4rtinKhttp://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Pjones22:51
M4rtinKhe should know quite a bit about it :)22:51
Stskeepsnod22:51
* Stskeeps calls it a night22:52
M4rtinKgood point :)22:52
*** pvanhoof has quit IRC22:53
*** swift110_ has quit IRC23:02
*** swift110_ has joined #jollamobile23:02
*** Pat_o has quit IRC23:03
*** Nightmare__ has quit IRC23:07
*** onurati has quit IRC23:09
*** Venemo has quit IRC23:11
*** Siegarn has joined #jollamobile23:28
*** leinir has quit IRC23:37
*** leinir has joined #jollamobile23:37
*** ender| has quit IRC23:43
*** spider-mario has quit IRC23:43

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!