#jollamobile log for Sunday, 2014-12-14

phlixitalking about games, i might do another two or three rounds heroes of the storm...00:00
phlixicya :-)00:00
salyavinI bet you can run Android Skype on Jolla00:00
phlixithat might work, never tried... on the other hand, its convinient, to have a device where i do not care that the batterie is empty after 4hours gaming00:01
salyavintrue00:03
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coderusshazam/soundhound working for anyone?09:24
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arkkipiiskadamn, what's the trick in getting mobile data to work in FI / Saunalahti? I had to reset the phone and I remember the same thing from first use but cannot remembe what was the fix ...09:48
ln-i didn't need any trick09:49
mdxtharkkipiiska, I have Saunalahti but did not need any tricks09:49
temmi_hoosaunalagi has interesting way to solve problems09:52
temmi_hoomy home is 1600m from the nearest mast and there a valley between us, so only air and some trees are in the way09:53
temmi_hoonow, the reception is really super ultra poor09:53
arkkipiiskain the meny i can "check" BT & Wlan but the mobile data is dim09:53
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arkkipiiskanuthin happns when I try to turn it on09:54
mdxtharkkipiiska, what is in mobile network09:54
mdxtharkkipiiska, system -> mobile network09:54
arkkipiiskaauto settings I think, now the next update is installing so I'm gonna have to wait for a while09:54
Waiteelol that nick :D09:55
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temmi_hoosonera works beautifully from the mast 2400m away09:56
temmi_hooelisalagi seem to think that the situation is completely okay and normal and there's nothing they want to do09:56
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Nightmare__coderus: Soundhound works for me, 1.1.0.3909:59
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Nightmare__http://www.cnet.com/news/no-surprises-at-ces-says-samsung-tv-boss/10:04
Nightmare__Samsung: Expect Tizen TV at CES10:04
Stskeepsheh10:05
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arkkipiiskain the mobile networks menu I have "Internet" Disabled and I cannot enable it...10:11
arkkipiiskatried network selection both manually and automatically to no avail10:11
stephgarkkipiiska: which version of sfos and are the APN settings correct?10:12
stephg(I ask about the version as the DB got better in later releases AFAIU)10:12
arkkipiiskaUitukka now, 1.1.0.3910:14
arkkipiiskaSaunalahti just says that enable the internet from the menu to get mobile data working10:14
arkkipiiskathere's nothing in the settings10:15
temmi_hooapn name: internet10:15
temmi_hoono account name nor password10:15
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temmi_hoothe whole idea of separate access points is ultraoutdated weird and broken10:16
mdxthI have apn internet.saunalahti.fi10:16
temmi_hooif you want another data operator, you put in another sim card10:16
zuttoarkkipiiska: i had a similar problem, i dont have 4g contract with saunalahti, so all i had to do was to make jolla prefer the 3g and it started working10:16
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temmi_hooat least elisa/saunalahti and soneta/telefinland use "internet" as a valid apn name10:17
temmi_hoodunno about dna but last time i checked they sucked in coverage in some places important to me10:17
arkkipiiskanow it's at least trying to connect but "problem with the cnnection"10:17
krkunkastajahttp://wiki.androidsuomi.fi/Suomalaisten_operaattoreiden_APN_asetukset10:18
arkkipiiskatried both internet.saunalahti.fi and internet, connection name is10:18
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mdxtharkkipiiska, sorry, I have internet.saunalahti not with .fi10:18
arkkipiiskaok, just figured out. that was the trick, now it's working, thanks :)10:19
temmi_hoogood10:20
temmi_hoonow, it would be easier if everyone used the same string so when changing sim cards it would just work10:21
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temmi_hooeven better would be if the data would just flow without apn names of any stupid €%(&% sucky design like that but that's what you get from design by committee of enemies10:21
attahtemmi_hoo: the apn is supposed to be stored on the sim...10:21
arkkipiiska  hmmh, perhaps I could ask Saunalahti to add this into their website... They had just "enable internet"10:22
temmi_hooarkkipiiska: they used to have supergood library of settings for different systems10:22
krkunkastajasonera has two different apn .. first gives you ip behind nat and the other gives public ip..10:22
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temmi_hooand then the generic settings for the cases you're not using any of the favourite toys10:23
temmi_hookrkunkastaja: oh, i gotta see10:23
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temmi_hoowhat you linked does not indicate10:24
attah..and some companies have the operator set up a special apn that goes straight to their intranet10:24
krkunkastajatemmi_hoo, and dna block almost every port in their "apn system" there are only few ports you can use if you want to do example mobile based ip cam surveillance system...10:24
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temmi_hooattah: in those cases the whole setup from sim card is very different and the network knows the device and can route anything anywhere even if the apn thing was never invented10:27
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attahtemmi_hoo: fair enough.. i guess the HLR/HSS/.. could know..10:28
temmi_hoonow since 2006 everybody in their right minds have done these cool things with mpls and most of the telco weirdness is just leftovers from previous decades of committee design10:28
temmi_hooattah: yes, they know and then they inform the other parts of network that this does not belong to usual traffic10:28
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temmi_hoosince 2006 the core carriers and end user isps and everybody have implemented their network basic level as mpls, which is a form of ethernet and thus underlines how open technologies eventually will win over10:30
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attahyep :) that way effort can be spent where it really matters instead of reinventing the wheel each time10:33
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temmi_hoothat's why my iot platform effort is using coap and mostly focusing on protocols which have an rfc or draft of10:36
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temmi_hoompls is pretty cool though10:38
temmi_hoobetter than anything seen before so that the telcos are using mpls to implement atm service for those customers that still want atm connectivity for some reason10:39
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attahwe all know ethernet is a consumer technology and cannot be trusted ;)10:40
temmi_hooright10:41
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temmi_hoomuch as the tcp/ip is just a volunteer effort and True Networks run on SNA and then the runner ups might use OSI if they really really want to bother with nonprofessional solutions10:42
attahhehe10:43
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attahtemmi_hoo: I'll just leave this here while i go away for a bit... https://together.jolla.com/question/23197/umts-and-other-connection-optimizations/ I figure it might be of interest10:47
temmi_hooi remember when sonera went nearly under after having bought umts licences from all over the world with hard money and then had to actually implement the networks and that cost a fortune and then the customers were not interested (yet)10:48
temmi_hoowell, there were not a whole lotta smart phones then10:48
temmi_hoomostly n770 and the communisticator10:48
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r0kk3rzwoo multi-version support in harbour11:16
r0kk3rzmy guess is that was another roadblock for u10 release11:16
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temmi_hoodifferent versions of applications for different versions of sailfishos?11:20
r0kk3rzyeah basically11:20
r0kk3rzor allowing you to say "this will only work on versions greater than X.Y.X"11:21
r0kk3rzwhich is kinda a must have with the qt 5.2 upgrade11:21
temmi_hooyes but the wholesome experience if better if there is a version support matrix11:21
r0kk3rzthats up to developers11:22
temmi_hooso that of an app you could have older versions available for older os versions if you want to support that sort of thing11:22
r0kk3rzyeah, they havent released it yet, but im sure they will allow such a thing in the future11:23
attahdoes anyone know what libraries we can expect to be ok'd for harbour in U10?11:23
r0kk3rzbut at current there is no excuse for not running the latest sailfishos11:23
r0kk3rzits not like theres a lot of device fragmentation yet11:23
r0kk3rzattah: there is a short list somewhere11:24
r0kk3rzbut with multi-version support I can see them adding more and more to that list as time goes on11:25
attahr0kk3rz: any idea on where?11:26
r0kk3rzi'll see if i can find the mailing list item11:26
attah:D11:26
r0kk3rzhttps://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2014-December/005385.html << thats the one about the store upgrade tomorrow11:27
attahnice.. but still no qtdocgallery :(11:31
r0kk3rzyeah there wasnt much in it11:31
r0kk3rzbut its something11:31
r0kk3rzhave to wait and see when u10 is released really11:32
attahyep11:32
r0kk3rzbut until then, theres always openrepos11:32
attahi saw some commits to qtdocgallery by jolla ppl fixing a couple of the bugs.. so it *should* be getting close to ok11:33
attahqt creator is borked for OS X 10.6 anyway.. so I guess I won't be doing any development in the near future anyway :(11:35
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r0kk3rzattah: vm in a vm?11:42
temmi_hoo10.6 sounds like not too much ram to spare anyhow11:45
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coderusNightmare__: hm, for me seems none of android apps can access microphone11:53
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attahr0kk3rz: nah.. 10.6 is the windows 7 of OS X so dropping it is pretty bad :(11:57
r0kk3rzyeah thats fine11:57
attahtemmi_hoo: true that.. i have all of 2 gb11:57
r0kk3rzbut run something in a vbox vm that you can install the sdk on11:57
attahGB11:57
attahor i'll just un-retire my 2007 thinkpad.. it has about the same performance11:58
r0kk3rzor that11:58
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attahsans ssd11:58
r0kk3rzcant bootcamp something on the macbook?11:59
attahnot on the 64GB air.. for obvious reasons11:59
attahbut i'm going for the mad-hacker solution and building my own libcxx12:01
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Yanielwhat could possibly go wrong12:05
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attahmore than i care to think about at the moment :)12:07
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cryoratattah get a bigger ssd.for.it then :)12:08
attahi'm not *that* fond of it.. it'll get replaced some time next year12:11
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attahand their proprietary ssds aren't all that easy to come by.. so although it is possible, it's not cheap12:11
r0kk3rzyeah my last laptop was an air-alike, too many compromises for the thickness i think12:14
r0kk3rzwent for something a bit thicker, but with more standard insides this time around12:14
attahr0kk3rz: if i had gone for the reasonable-spec one instead (i was a student at the time) it would have been more than ok12:15
attahso i guess i'm saying i could very well get another12:16
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coderusandroid microphone issues caused by callrecorder. after recording a call android apps can't access microphone anymore :D13:43
tadzikhah13:43
tadzikthat must've been "funny" to debug13:43
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r0kk3rzsounds like call recorder is not releasing it properly15:24
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coderusr0kk3rz: after stopping callrecorder service same16:10
coderusonly reboot helps16:10
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r0kk3rzwont it have to request access to the mic from pulseaudio? and explicitly say 'im done now' before other well behaved apps can access it?16:20
r0kk3rzso killing the service wont help16:20
r0kk3rzmy knowledge is pretty limited about such things, so im probably wrong16:21
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eyea_UKjolla )0!1@ joh16:33
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eyea_UKwhen is the next update due16:36
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TemeVeyea_UK: january16:43
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coderuseyea_UK: i hope it will be in next week or so :)16:45
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TemeVcoderus: didn't you get the news, they are not going to publish it on the week before holidays (next week)16:51
tiwakehttps://inovaestudios.blob.core.windows.net/forumsavatars/1801b6e30aa0a570262fff5c5544d3480ced7b677732.jpg16:51
r0kk3rzyeah its pretty much early this week, or perhaps 2nd week of jan16:51
tiwakegame engine this startup company is working on16:51
tiwakethats some fantastic light rendering16:51
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r0kk3rzarent you already running an RC of u10 coderus?16:53
coderusno, i'm on u9 :)16:55
tiwakeI'm kind of curious... for jolla, are there more hardware developers than software devs? or is it the other way around16:56
Morpog_PCother way around of course16:56
tiwakewhy of course?16:56
Morpog_PCthey are too small to do the HW by themself16:57
tiwakedo they outsource some of the hardware development?16:57
Morpog_PCthe whole phone was outsourced, beside of design16:57
tiwakegotcha16:57
Morpog_PCeven alot of software to make the phone run on mer was outsourced16:58
Morpog_PCie tieto16:58
r0kk3rzwell, libhybris means they can use standard android SOCs and existing drivers16:59
Morpog_PCbut not for everything16:59
r0kk3rzwell no, but it cuts down on work16:59
Morpog_PCsure17:00
Morpog_PCcheck here: http://events.linuxfoundation.org/sites/events/files/slides/elc_telephony_piirainen_0.pdf17:00
r0kk3rzi wonder how much effort it would be to port the BBOS10 version of unity3d to sailfish17:01
r0kk3rzi guess with QNX bbos is probably a lot different where it counts17:02
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Nicd-wooo I fixed younited20:20
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Nicd-but shame on you f-secure and jolla qa20:20
Nicd-it has been there for ages with no fix20:21
ender|i wish jolla could show my wifi properly as 📶 instead of showing a box20:21
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Teguhaha, nice wifi name20:24
Tegudo other devices show it correctly?20:25
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Nicd-I can't see it in my terminal :P20:26
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Tegu(I can't either :D just googled it)20:27
ender|Tegu: WP 8.1 and most Androids show it fine. Windows 8.1 thinks it's a hidden network for some reason20:27
ender|Nicd-: here's how WP8.1 shows it: https://eternallybored.org/imgs/stuff/wifi.png20:28
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Teguohohoo, that's actually neat20:28
Nicd-what character is it?20:29
ender|my sister (also) has a Nokia E72, that one shows it as gibberish :)20:29
ender|Nicd-: Antenna with bars20:29
TeguNicd-: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f4f6/index.htm20:29
Nicd-well no wonder it's gibberish in the E72 then20:30
Nicd-the phone came out before the character!20:30
ender|nah, it interprets it as iso-8859-something, and does the same for other non-ASCII SSIDs (instead of interpreting as UTF-8)20:31
Nicd-even if it did interpret it as UTF-8 it would probably render it as a box or the unicode replacement character20:32
ender|yeah20:33
Nicd-also, apparently there is no specification for the charset in a wifi ssid, so the E72's rendering is completely valid20:33
ender|i remember reading somewhere that it's specified as utf-8 in 802.11ac, but that it wasn't specified before20:34
Nicd-yeah, in the newer spec it can be specified to utf-8 or left unspecified20:35
ender|i need to test what older windows versions do with these. i wish i knew where my usb wireless dongle is, then i could test directly in vmware20:36
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coderusjust install unicode font20:41
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tiwakeis there a way I can get a jolla phone shipped to USA?21:54
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Jonnitiwake: most likely there are some forwarding services available. But unless you like 2G only or is just using it for WLAN device, you prolly do not want to" :)22:03
tiwakeJonni: I don't have a 'dataplan'22:04
tiwakenor do I want one :P22:04
cryorattiwake, borderlynx22:04
tiwakeborderlinx22:05
r0kk3rztiwake: also the warranty is most likely void in the US22:05
cryorattiwake, right22:05
cryorathttp://www.borderlinx.com sorry :)22:05
tiwakemeh, warranties are over rated22:05
r0kk3rzagreed22:05
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Jonniwell borderlinx or similar services offer european shipping address and they can forward it to US.22:06
tiwake"no thankyou, I'll do what I want with the device I bought"22:06
r0kk3rzthats fine if you dont care, i just thought i would mention22:06
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tiwakehmm22:08
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tiwakewhat size and weight is the cellphone shipped in?22:13
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tiwakeerm, box size22:14
r0kk3rzpretty identical to a samsung galaxy box or an iphone box22:17
r0kk3rzcant remember if it was shipped in a bigger outer box or not22:17
stephgthink mine came in a bubble wrap package rather than more cardboard22:18
r0kk3rzi think mine came in a bigger box22:18
ender|i still have my box, let me grab a meter22:19
tiwakeI'm not seeing information on the samsung either... heh22:20
ender|19.5 x 12.5 x 8.5cm22:20
tiwakeweight?22:21
ender|actually, according to sticker, the box is 20x13x9, 0.5kg22:21
cryoratmine came in a bigger cardboard with bubblewrap inside22:23
cryoratand a TOH :P22:23
tiwakeabout $32 to ship it to me22:27
tiwakethats not too bad22:27
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ottulooh hi ender| (s'mee, from c-a)22:28
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ender|the one without nose?22:29
ottulothe same22:29
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