#jollamobile log for Sunday, 2014-12-14

phlixi	talking about games, i might do another two or three rounds heroes of the storm...	00:00
phlixi	cya :-)	00:00
salyavin	I bet you can run Android Skype on Jolla	00:00
phlixi	that might work, never tried... on the other hand, its convinient, to have a device where i do not care that the batterie is empty after 4hours gaming	00:01
salyavin	true	00:03
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coderus	shazam/soundhound working for anyone?	09:24
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arkkipiiska	damn, what's the trick in getting mobile data to work in FI / Saunalahti? I had to reset the phone and I remember the same thing from first use but cannot remembe what was the fix ...	09:48
ln-	i didn't need any trick	09:49
mdxth	arkkipiiska, I have Saunalahti but did not need any tricks	09:49
temmi_hoo	saunalagi has interesting way to solve problems	09:52
temmi_hoo	my home is 1600m from the nearest mast and there a valley between us, so only air and some trees are in the way	09:53
temmi_hoo	now, the reception is really super ultra poor	09:53
arkkipiiska	in the meny i can "check" BT & Wlan but the mobile data is dim	09:53
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arkkipiiska	nuthin happns when I try to turn it on	09:54
mdxth	arkkipiiska, what is in mobile network	09:54
mdxth	arkkipiiska, system -> mobile network	09:54
arkkipiiska	auto settings I think, now the next update is installing so I'm gonna have to wait for a while	09:54
Waitee	lol that nick :D	09:55
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temmi_hoo	sonera works beautifully from the mast 2400m away	09:56
temmi_hoo	elisalagi seem to think that the situation is completely okay and normal and there's nothing they want to do	09:56
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Nightmare__	coderus: Soundhound works for me, 1.1.0.39	09:59
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Nightmare__	http://www.cnet.com/news/no-surprises-at-ces-says-samsung-tv-boss/	10:04
Nightmare__	Samsung: Expect Tizen TV at CES	10:04
Stskeeps	heh	10:05
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arkkipiiska	in the mobile networks menu I have "Internet" Disabled and I cannot enable it...	10:11
arkkipiiska	tried network selection both manually and automatically to no avail	10:11
stephg	arkkipiiska: which version of sfos and are the APN settings correct?	10:12
stephg	(I ask about the version as the DB got better in later releases AFAIU)	10:12
arkkipiiska	Uitukka now, 1.1.0.39	10:14
arkkipiiska	Saunalahti just says that enable the internet from the menu to get mobile data working	10:14
arkkipiiska	there's nothing in the settings	10:15
temmi_hoo	apn name: internet	10:15
temmi_hoo	no account name nor password	10:15
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temmi_hoo	the whole idea of separate access points is ultraoutdated weird and broken	10:16
mdxth	I have apn internet.saunalahti.fi	10:16
temmi_hoo	if you want another data operator, you put in another sim card	10:16
zutto	arkkipiiska: i had a similar problem, i dont have 4g contract with saunalahti, so all i had to do was to make jolla prefer the 3g and it started working	10:16
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temmi_hoo	at least elisa/saunalahti and soneta/telefinland use "internet" as a valid apn name	10:17
temmi_hoo	dunno about dna but last time i checked they sucked in coverage in some places important to me	10:17
arkkipiiska	now it's at least trying to connect but "problem with the cnnection"	10:17
krkunkastaja	http://wiki.androidsuomi.fi/Suomalaisten_operaattoreiden_APN_asetukset	10:18
arkkipiiska	tried both internet.saunalahti.fi and internet, connection name is	10:18
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mdxth	arkkipiiska, sorry, I have internet.saunalahti not with .fi	10:18
arkkipiiska	ok, just figured out. that was the trick, now it's working, thanks :)	10:19
temmi_hoo	good	10:20
temmi_hoo	now, it would be easier if everyone used the same string so when changing sim cards it would just work	10:21
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temmi_hoo	even better would be if the data would just flow without apn names of any stupid €%(&% sucky design like that but that's what you get from design by committee of enemies	10:21
attah	temmi_hoo: the apn is supposed to be stored on the sim...	10:21
arkkipiiska	hmmh, perhaps I could ask Saunalahti to add this into their website... They had just "enable internet"	10:22
temmi_hoo	arkkipiiska: they used to have supergood library of settings for different systems	10:22
krkunkastaja	sonera has two different apn .. first gives you ip behind nat and the other gives public ip..	10:22
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temmi_hoo	and then the generic settings for the cases you're not using any of the favourite toys	10:23
temmi_hoo	krkunkastaja: oh, i gotta see	10:23
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temmi_hoo	what you linked does not indicate	10:24
attah	..and some companies have the operator set up a special apn that goes straight to their intranet	10:24
krkunkastaja	temmi_hoo, and dna block almost every port in their "apn system" there are only few ports you can use if you want to do example mobile based ip cam surveillance system...	10:24
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temmi_hoo	attah: in those cases the whole setup from sim card is very different and the network knows the device and can route anything anywhere even if the apn thing was never invented	10:27
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attah	temmi_hoo: fair enough.. i guess the HLR/HSS/.. could know..	10:28
temmi_hoo	now since 2006 everybody in their right minds have done these cool things with mpls and most of the telco weirdness is just leftovers from previous decades of committee design	10:28
temmi_hoo	attah: yes, they know and then they inform the other parts of network that this does not belong to usual traffic	10:28
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temmi_hoo	since 2006 the core carriers and end user isps and everybody have implemented their network basic level as mpls, which is a form of ethernet and thus underlines how open technologies eventually will win over	10:30
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attah	yep :) that way effort can be spent where it really matters instead of reinventing the wheel each time	10:33
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temmi_hoo	that's why my iot platform effort is using coap and mostly focusing on protocols which have an rfc or draft of	10:36
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temmi_hoo	mpls is pretty cool though	10:38
temmi_hoo	better than anything seen before so that the telcos are using mpls to implement atm service for those customers that still want atm connectivity for some reason	10:39
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attah	we all know ethernet is a consumer technology and cannot be trusted ;)	10:40
temmi_hoo	right	10:41
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temmi_hoo	much as the tcp/ip is just a volunteer effort and True Networks run on SNA and then the runner ups might use OSI if they really really want to bother with nonprofessional solutions	10:42
attah	hehe	10:43
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attah	temmi_hoo: I'll just leave this here while i go away for a bit... https://together.jolla.com/question/23197/umts-and-other-connection-optimizations/ I figure it might be of interest	10:47
temmi_hoo	i remember when sonera went nearly under after having bought umts licences from all over the world with hard money and then had to actually implement the networks and that cost a fortune and then the customers were not interested (yet)	10:48
temmi_hoo	well, there were not a whole lotta smart phones then	10:48
temmi_hoo	mostly n770 and the communisticator	10:48
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r0kk3rz	woo multi-version support in harbour	11:16
r0kk3rz	my guess is that was another roadblock for u10 release	11:16
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temmi_hoo	different versions of applications for different versions of sailfishos?	11:20
r0kk3rz	yeah basically	11:20
r0kk3rz	or allowing you to say "this will only work on versions greater than X.Y.X"	11:21
r0kk3rz	which is kinda a must have with the qt 5.2 upgrade	11:21
temmi_hoo	yes but the wholesome experience if better if there is a version support matrix	11:21
r0kk3rz	thats up to developers	11:22
temmi_hoo	so that of an app you could have older versions available for older os versions if you want to support that sort of thing	11:22
r0kk3rz	yeah, they havent released it yet, but im sure they will allow such a thing in the future	11:23
attah	does anyone know what libraries we can expect to be ok'd for harbour in U10?	11:23
r0kk3rz	but at current there is no excuse for not running the latest sailfishos	11:23
r0kk3rz	its not like theres a lot of device fragmentation yet	11:23
r0kk3rz	attah: there is a short list somewhere	11:24
r0kk3rz	but with multi-version support I can see them adding more and more to that list as time goes on	11:25
attah	r0kk3rz: any idea on where?	11:26
r0kk3rz	i'll see if i can find the mailing list item	11:26
attah	:D	11:26
r0kk3rz	https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2014-December/005385.html << thats the one about the store upgrade tomorrow	11:27
attah	nice.. but still no qtdocgallery :(	11:31
r0kk3rz	yeah there wasnt much in it	11:31
r0kk3rz	but its something	11:31
r0kk3rz	have to wait and see when u10 is released really	11:32
attah	yep	11:32
r0kk3rz	but until then, theres always openrepos	11:32
attah	i saw some commits to qtdocgallery by jolla ppl fixing a couple of the bugs.. so it should be getting close to ok	11:33
attah	qt creator is borked for OS X 10.6 anyway.. so I guess I won't be doing any development in the near future anyway :(	11:35
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r0kk3rz	attah: vm in a vm?	11:42
temmi_hoo	10.6 sounds like not too much ram to spare anyhow	11:45
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coderus	Nightmare__: hm, for me seems none of android apps can access microphone	11:53
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attah	r0kk3rz: nah.. 10.6 is the windows 7 of OS X so dropping it is pretty bad :(	11:57
r0kk3rz	yeah thats fine	11:57
attah	temmi_hoo: true that.. i have all of 2 gb	11:57
r0kk3rz	but run something in a vbox vm that you can install the sdk on	11:57
attah	GB	11:57
attah	or i'll just un-retire my 2007 thinkpad.. it has about the same performance	11:58
r0kk3rz	or that	11:58
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attah	sans ssd	11:58
r0kk3rz	cant bootcamp something on the macbook?	11:59
attah	not on the 64GB air.. for obvious reasons	11:59
attah	but i'm going for the mad-hacker solution and building my own libcxx	12:01
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Yaniel	what could possibly go wrong	12:05
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attah	more than i care to think about at the moment :)	12:07
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cryorat	attah get a bigger ssd.for.it then :)	12:08
attah	i'm not that fond of it.. it'll get replaced some time next year	12:11
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attah	and their proprietary ssds aren't all that easy to come by.. so although it is possible, it's not cheap	12:11
r0kk3rz	yeah my last laptop was an air-alike, too many compromises for the thickness i think	12:14
r0kk3rz	went for something a bit thicker, but with more standard insides this time around	12:14
attah	r0kk3rz: if i had gone for the reasonable-spec one instead (i was a student at the time) it would have been more than ok	12:15
attah	so i guess i'm saying i could very well get another	12:16
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coderus	android microphone issues caused by callrecorder. after recording a call android apps can't access microphone anymore :D	13:43
tadzik	hah	13:43
tadzik	that must've been "funny" to debug	13:43
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r0kk3rz	sounds like call recorder is not releasing it properly	15:24
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coderus	r0kk3rz: after stopping callrecorder service same	16:10
coderus	only reboot helps	16:10
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r0kk3rz	wont it have to request access to the mic from pulseaudio? and explicitly say 'im done now' before other well behaved apps can access it?	16:20
r0kk3rz	so killing the service wont help	16:20
r0kk3rz	my knowledge is pretty limited about such things, so im probably wrong	16:21
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eyea_UK	jolla )0!1@ joh	16:33
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eyea_UK	when is the next update due	16:36
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TemeV	eyea_UK: january	16:43
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coderus	eyea_UK: i hope it will be in next week or so :)	16:45
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TemeV	coderus: didn't you get the news, they are not going to publish it on the week before holidays (next week)	16:51
tiwake	https://inovaestudios.blob.core.windows.net/forumsavatars/1801b6e30aa0a570262fff5c5544d3480ced7b677732.jpg	16:51
r0kk3rz	yeah its pretty much early this week, or perhaps 2nd week of jan	16:51
tiwake	game engine this startup company is working on	16:51
tiwake	thats some fantastic light rendering	16:51
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r0kk3rz	arent you already running an RC of u10 coderus?	16:53
coderus	no, i'm on u9 :)	16:55
tiwake	I'm kind of curious... for jolla, are there more hardware developers than software devs? or is it the other way around	16:56
Morpog_PC	other way around of course	16:56
tiwake	why of course?	16:56
Morpog_PC	they are too small to do the HW by themself	16:57
tiwake	do they outsource some of the hardware development?	16:57
Morpog_PC	the whole phone was outsourced, beside of design	16:57
tiwake	gotcha	16:57
Morpog_PC	even alot of software to make the phone run on mer was outsourced	16:58
Morpog_PC	ie tieto	16:58
r0kk3rz	well, libhybris means they can use standard android SOCs and existing drivers	16:59
Morpog_PC	but not for everything	16:59
r0kk3rz	well no, but it cuts down on work	16:59
Morpog_PC	sure	17:00
Morpog_PC	check here: http://events.linuxfoundation.org/sites/events/files/slides/elc_telephony_piirainen_0.pdf	17:00
r0kk3rz	i wonder how much effort it would be to port the BBOS10 version of unity3d to sailfish	17:01
r0kk3rz	i guess with QNX bbos is probably a lot different where it counts	17:02
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Nicd-	wooo I fixed younited	20:20
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Nicd-	but shame on you f-secure and jolla qa	20:20
Nicd-	it has been there for ages with no fix	20:21
ender\|	i wish jolla could show my wifi properly as 📶 instead of showing a box	20:21
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Tegu	haha, nice wifi name	20:24
Tegu	do other devices show it correctly?	20:25
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Nicd-	I can't see it in my terminal :P	20:26
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Tegu	(I can't either :D just googled it)	20:27
ender\|	Tegu: WP 8.1 and most Androids show it fine. Windows 8.1 thinks it's a hidden network for some reason	20:27
ender\|	Nicd-: here's how WP8.1 shows it: https://eternallybored.org/imgs/stuff/wifi.png	20:28
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Tegu	ohohoo, that's actually neat	20:28
Nicd-	what character is it?	20:29
ender\|	my sister (also) has a Nokia E72, that one shows it as gibberish :)	20:29
ender\|	Nicd-: Antenna with bars	20:29
Tegu	Nicd-: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f4f6/index.htm	20:29
Nicd-	well no wonder it's gibberish in the E72 then	20:30
Nicd-	the phone came out before the character!	20:30
ender\|	nah, it interprets it as iso-8859-something, and does the same for other non-ASCII SSIDs (instead of interpreting as UTF-8)	20:31
Nicd-	even if it did interpret it as UTF-8 it would probably render it as a box or the unicode replacement character	20:32
ender\|	yeah	20:33
Nicd-	also, apparently there is no specification for the charset in a wifi ssid, so the E72's rendering is completely valid	20:33
ender\|	i remember reading somewhere that it's specified as utf-8 in 802.11ac, but that it wasn't specified before	20:34
Nicd-	yeah, in the newer spec it can be specified to utf-8 or left unspecified	20:35
ender\|	i need to test what older windows versions do with these. i wish i knew where my usb wireless dongle is, then i could test directly in vmware	20:36
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coderus	just install unicode font	20:41
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tiwake	is there a way I can get a jolla phone shipped to USA?	21:54
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Jonni	tiwake: most likely there are some forwarding services available. But unless you like 2G only or is just using it for WLAN device, you prolly do not want to" :)	22:03
tiwake	Jonni: I don't have a 'dataplan'	22:04
tiwake	nor do I want one :P	22:04
cryorat	tiwake, borderlynx	22:04
tiwake	borderlinx	22:05
r0kk3rz	tiwake: also the warranty is most likely void in the US	22:05
cryorat	tiwake, right	22:05
cryorat	http://www.borderlinx.com sorry :)	22:05
tiwake	meh, warranties are over rated	22:05
r0kk3rz	agreed	22:05
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Jonni	well borderlinx or similar services offer european shipping address and they can forward it to US.	22:06
tiwake	"no thankyou, I'll do what I want with the device I bought"	22:06
r0kk3rz	thats fine if you dont care, i just thought i would mention	22:06
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tiwake	hmm	22:08
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tiwake	what size and weight is the cellphone shipped in?	22:13
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tiwake	erm, box size	22:14
r0kk3rz	pretty identical to a samsung galaxy box or an iphone box	22:17
r0kk3rz	cant remember if it was shipped in a bigger outer box or not	22:17
stephg	think mine came in a bubble wrap package rather than more cardboard	22:18
r0kk3rz	i think mine came in a bigger box	22:18
ender\|	i still have my box, let me grab a meter	22:19
tiwake	I'm not seeing information on the samsung either... heh	22:20
ender\|	19.5 x 12.5 x 8.5cm	22:20
tiwake	weight?	22:21
ender\|	actually, according to sticker, the box is 20x13x9, 0.5kg	22:21
cryorat	mine came in a bigger cardboard with bubblewrap inside	22:23
cryorat	and a TOH :P	22:23
tiwake	about $32 to ship it to me	22:27
tiwake	thats not too bad	22:27
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ottulo	oh hi ender\| (s'mee, from c-a)	22:28
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ender\|	the one without nose?	22:29
ottulo	the same	22:29
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