#jollamobile log for Thursday, 2015-01-08

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tadzikwow, data counters are so wrong00:05
tadzikreporting 50 MB of data eaten, network provider says I ate 1 MB during that time00:06
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SpeedEviltadzik: don't assume it won't all be added in tomorrow in a lump01:03
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jcbjoehow do you load music from your computer to your jolla ?02:06
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OksanaThere were Jolla Phone and Jolla Tablet released. Is Jolla going to release something else? Entirely different, or a second edition of phone, or a second edition of tablet? If yes, then where can community discuss the expectations and ideas for Jolla 2, so that Jolla developers would read it, too?02:25
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dunphttp://ww2.saygus.com/ hmm sound too good?02:34
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Oksanadunp: Screen is believable. Camera: too good to believe. 3GB RAM and Fractal Antenna are suspicious.02:56
OksanaWaterproof? Giant battery? Qi charging? 3 Microphones? Fingerprint, and other sensors? Sounds like a heavy brick. They avoid super-weight only by having no hw keyboard.02:58
OksanaWhat does * mean? We are developing, not finished yet?02:59
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OksanaIt is even possible that they pull it off. But the device might have weak reception, over-heating problems, and abysmal battery life. Because even with giant battery... this quantity of hardware, powerful processor, and large RAM will eat the battery like crazy.03:05
OksanaNotice that it all depends on how good their developers are. If they have prior experience with all the components, and their specific requirements, they will pull it off.03:05
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Oksanadunp: http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/07/saygus-v2-handson/03:08
OksanaAnd http://www.cnet.com/products/saygus-v2/03:13
OksanaOverall, the beast's main shortcoming is lack of hw keyboard. But hw keyboard is hardly compatible with waterproofing.03:14
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dunp"s waterproof to fulfil IPX7 standards, meaning it can be submerged in up to 3 feet (1m) of water for 30 minutes,"03:14
OksanaThat's why they don't have keyboard, exactly: they want water-proofness.03:15
OksanaAnd, I do not want to think about how many bits of hardware in it do not have open-source drivers. :-/03:15
dunpdualboot03:15
dunpand support boot from sd-card sound good03:16
OksanaDual-boot whatever, but will their sensors work without closed bits? Or will you have to re-used closed-source binary blobs in whatever OS you choose?03:16
OksanaThey will provide binary blobs for the hardware, sure; but most of the low-level thingies will likely be closed-source.03:17
OksanaBut yes, it is a very attractive beast. Especially if it is not locked to a particular network provider. And can be used world-wide, at any frequencies.03:18
OksanaThe fact that they brought their raw prototypes to show at CES says that they are seriously looking for investors and pre-ordering buyers, to get the phone into mass-production. They are afraid to become out-of-date if they lose momentum.03:22
OksanaIt's a solid brick. Not bullet-proof, but still, Kevlar fractal antenna at the back is a nice touch.03:23
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OksanaI would not buy it, with such a small amount of information, but I would still be interested in it. In getting to know more about it. About open-ness of drivers for their hardware. About boot-ability of Mer on their device. About battery life. About modem: is it isolated from main-board (like BlackPhone, Neo900 and Pyra), or is modem capable of gaining access to anything on the device.03:27
OksanaWhy is it so quiet here?03:29
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OksanaThere were Jolla Phone and Jolla Tablet released. Is Jolla going to release something else? Entirely different, or a second edition of phone, or a second edition of tablet? If yes, then where can community discuss the expectations and ideas for Jolla 2, so that Jolla developers would participate in the discussion, too?03:37
specialthe tablet is not released03:41
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OksanaOk, the Tablet was not released yet, but it already has specifications written up.03:48
OksanaThe tablet is not going to be The-Other-Half compatible, or is it?03:49
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covoxOksana: wouldn't it have to be phone-sized for that to work? :P05:35
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OksanaOr 2x-phone-sized.05:38
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WaiteeOksana: seriously, that would just look kinda dumb :D05:42
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OksanaNot necessarily. You would be able to use two TOHs at the same time. For example: attach two TOHs from two different people, and play chess, where one side is coloured by one TOH, and the other by other TOH.05:43
Waiteei mean not the near square size of the tablet itself but when your tablet has like two different bulky 3d-printed pieces attached to it05:43
Waiteeyeah in theory, nice thing05:43
Waiteebut when it comes to actually make it work, nope05:43
Waiteeim very sceptic of the other half concept other than being a toy for hackers which is nice ofcourse05:44
OksanaWell, I enjoy it. For Jolla 2 Phone, if it comes out, I would like to have no screen, but instead both side TOH-compatible. So that user chooses whether the phone has screen-and-keyboard or two-screens. And what kind of screen...05:46
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Waiteeyou know the technical limitations of i2c do you?05:48
Waiteeoh shit gotta get to bus05:49
Waitee->05:49
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OksanaGood bye...05:53
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* Oksana is looking up limitations of I2C05:57
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Oksanaaddress management, bus configuration, potential faults, speed... Ok, because of speed (100 kbit/s), it would not be well-suited for camera, for example? NFC helps a bit, with 424 kbit/s?06:00
Waiteewhere for example hdmi standard does 5gbps06:01
Waiteei2c is good for stuff like a led system or keyboard etc06:03
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OksanaHDMI: proprietary and 19-pins. I2C is only 2 pins. Though, yes, the difference in speed is not 10-fold - it is ... 50 000?06:05
Waiteeyeah06:05
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Waiteealso, the nfc radio would consume your battery if it were to use it06:07
Waiteeremember the first few wees we had the bug on tohdaemon06:08
Waiteethat it kept on checking the other half and you either had to rip the nfc sticker off or kill the process06:09
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Stskeepsgood moring07:09
Stskeeps+n07:09
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kimmolihmm... something has triggered rebuild of my mer-obs repos 6th Jan07:44
kimmoliand now toholed-daemon fails07:45
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kimmolismells like pi07:45
kimmoliJust pasted a lot, see here http://pastebin.com/BPDEMBEQ07:45
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sebsebseb07:51
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mcfriskHi! Where does jolla store wlan passwords? I have one password only in jolla and need to put it into another device too..08:20
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ppdbus-monitor and you'll probably see it when it's used?-)08:21
tevemcfrisk: /var/lib/connman/08:22
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mcfriskteve: thanks!08:30
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mcfriskit seems that jolla changed it's hostaname from jolla to dhcppc6 after ipv6 connections? how strange is that...08:48
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mcfriskalready reported it seems https://together.jolla.com/question/70145/dhcp-client-changes-hostname/08:53
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chem|stmcfrisk: that is an open issue, jolla updates its hostname from dhcp anytime - I end up with a 20letter hostname at university08:54
temmi_moothat's super annoying08:54
temmi_moomy mac does the same08:54
temmi_mooit is technically overridable but another matter is if the ux has any provisions for that08:54
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mcfriskI added the connman option from tjc and after reboot hostname is again jolla, luckily this is not persistent...08:56
mcfriskman that music player is stupid, seem to take ages to load after boot, then sees all playlists but claims the playlists are empty until all tracks have been scanned on device..08:58
tadzikdaedalus is the best one I've found, give it a shot08:59
tadzikas for slow start after boot, even settings start slow after boot08:59
mcfriskyes, and gallery08:59
tadzikI meant: everything08:59
mcfriskfeels like Windows and its fake fast boots08:59
tadzikit's not so much for fast boots but rather for lazy loading08:59
tadziklast update introduced tons of that, it must have had an impact on things09:00
mcfriskthat impact feels like lag09:00
temmi_moopersonally, as the devices boot very rarely, i'd prefer slow booting and fast loading09:00
tadzikit's once per reboot, hardly the end of the world09:00
mcfriskfor my usage, I don't see any improvements in u10 compared to u809:00
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tadzikonly the first start is slow09:00
mcfriskonly new regegressions and lag.09:00
tadzikin my experience it's a lot, lot better09:01
tadzikmostly for usability improvements09:01
mcfriskbrowser became unusable with tabs09:01
mcfriskthat one kills my usage pretty much09:01
mcfriskand killing apps in background, sigh, I might as well have android then09:02
temmi_moodoes the navigator program now stay running in background during phone calls?09:02
tadzik*shrug*, I don't consider stock browser to be usable, tabs or not09:02
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temmi_mooi like the stock browser :)09:02
temmi_mooworks a lot like n900 browser i grew into09:02
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tadzikwhat I liked about N900 browser was the fact that it was using multiple windows09:04
temmi_moowell yes09:04
tadzikso ctrl+backspace q or ctrl+backspace w switched them really quickly09:04
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chem|stmcfrisk: the musicplayer not showing music after boot should not be persistent, mine loads withing a second or two after I started the player, and it does that every time I start the player09:25
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chem|sttadzik: what I really liked about it was that I had a keyboard to do that!09:26
tadzikhttp://goo.gl/pN9tVl09:28
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mcfriskchem|st: mine needs minutes to load music...09:33
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chem|stmcfrisk: that sounds wrong, and my music is not even on the internal storage10:00
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tadzikargh. WHat kind of bullshit is "networking not available, please restart device"?10:10
tadzikI can go to utilities and Restart Network Connections, why can't sailfish do it on its own10:10
tadzikah, now it's "critical problem with app registry"10:11
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mcfriskchem|st: well, 20 gigs of music on sdcard10:12
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Yanielworks fine for me10:15
Yanielloads in jolla music player in a few secs10:16
mcfriskmy music player seemed to take minutes to find all music files right after boot, maybe something was eating cpu/memory/mmc/sdcard bandwidth in the background10:17
Yanielwere they in the tracker db yet?10:17
Yanielindexing takes a while10:18
Yanielbut that only needs to be done once10:18
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tadzikafter boot. Argh10:18
tadzikjust how often do you reboot to make this so much of an issue10:19
mcfriskthe issue was that after all playlists where found, they were claimed to be empty until all songs were found which takes a bit longer. And I rebooted to fix the stupid hostname bug in connman config, reboot was needed to reset hostname to jolla.10:20
mcfriskand I wanted to make sure that jolla connman does not set the hostname persistently10:21
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chem|stmcfrisk: you can update your hostname on the device but why do you need to have your hostname updated, yes it is annoying on the shell but yet the other question why do you reboot when you are a shell guy?11:19
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mcfriskchem|st: to see if the hostname was set to be persistent accross boots by connman11:44
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jubo2Where do I turn the delivery notifications on for SMS ?12:39
Nicd-in the sms app settings12:39
Nicd-settings -> apps -> messaging12:39
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jubo2Dänks Nicd-. Found it now12:40
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phlixiHi13:43
phlixiI would like to export all information from "people"13:43
phlixiany suggestions?13:44
phlixiultimativly i am looking for a CSV File with one row per contact and if needed (e. g. profile pictures) additional files referenced in seperate cols...13:46
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tbrI'd suspect it's a sqlite file somewhere, but that's just a guess13:47
phlixiI guess there is no button to do that :-) but this data is stored some where13:47
tadzikif export, then perhaps you can export vcards13:47
tadzikif extract, then there is probably an sqlite as tbr says13:47
phlixii guess i would have to write some script to transform the vcards into the csv, thus i could do that directly from the sqlite file...13:48
phlixiactually tools like SQLite Database Browser already have that implemented :-)13:50
tbrfirst you need to find the DB13:52
SK_workphlixi: you can also use vcardconverter13:53
SK_workif you want vcardformat, that is rather easy to parse13:53
Tofethere are some guides on TJC, iirc13:54
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phlixiok, looks promising... https://together.jolla.com/question/384/export-vcf-from-people/13:56
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phlixithat was easy... http://www.heise.de/download/vcard-grid.html :-)14:13
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chem|st;)15:52
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Shinryuu;)15:53
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mcfriskhmm, jolla adds on slashdot16:27
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SK_workmcfrisk: ads ?16:31
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mcfriskheh, yes ads16:33
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temmi_mooso /. is still a thing?16:36
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DrainBamagedsledges - You mentioned my name17:54
sledgesDrainBamaged: and you mentioned mine 8)17:56
DrainBamagedYes, in response :D17:56
sledgesgood, so we're even now :D17:57
DrainBamagedExcellent17:58
sledgesok i'll stop muckin' around: how've you been?17:58
sledges:))17:58
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DrainBamagedGood, thank you, super busy which is great17:58
DrainBamagedHow about you my good man?17:58
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sledgesjust as great and for the same reason :))17:59
sledgesfigured sebsebseb is also in brizzle17:59
sledgescare to join us a week on a saturday at Linux User Group meetup in a pub? (early afternoon)18:00
sledgesjust few people (brizzle*bath lub)18:00
DrainBamagedSounds good18:00
sledges(that sounded punny)18:00
DrainBamagedWhere to?18:00
DrainBamagedThough, I will feel a fraud as a Windows user and tech support guy :P18:01
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sledgesand im using systemd, so we're both as good :D18:02
DrainBamagedFair do's18:02
sledgesKnights Templar near Temple Meads18:02
DrainBamagedAha, I can walk there, yaaay :D18:03
sledgesand be merry:))18:03
DrainBamagedYes18:03
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sledgeswill pling you closer to the date18:07
DrainBamagedThank you for plinging in advance18:08
sledgesno ploblem18:08
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WaRi0i cp an image from my pc19:41
WaRi0and never show up19:41
WaRi0i use utilites19:42
WaRi0nothing :O19:42
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Yanielwhere to19:47
WaRi0?19:47
Yanielwhere do you copy the image19:47
Yanieland                    how19:47
WaRi0with others19:48
WaRi0with c/p19:48
Yanielwow usually the spacebar does not get stuck19:48
WaRi0i cp on pictures/jolla/19:48
WaRi0never show up19:48
Yanielum I don't understand19:48
WaRi0what19:49
Yanielhave you mounted it with sshfs or mtp?19:49
WaRi0no man19:49
WaRi0i just copy an image19:49
WaRi0from pc19:49
WaRi0to phone19:49
Yanieldo you use windows?19:50
Yanieland what do you mean with "i use utilites"19:51
WaRi0yes i have windows19:52
WaRi0and i use utilities19:52
WaRi0for refresh media19:52
WaRi0nothing happens19:52
Yanielokay19:52
Yanielrefreshing takes a while19:52
WaRi0ok so i w819:52
Yanielshould be less than 10min19:53
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attahCrazy idea: automatable interfaces, apps publish dbus methods and qml pages/classes to populate+dispatch the signals.. and these can be dispatched immediately or saved by the app... worth a TJC post, or is it dumb?20:19
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r0kk3rzattah: i dont get it20:34
attahso apps open up some method to dbus calls.. say "create calendar event" in the calendar20:35
attahit then also provides a page that has toggles and stuff to get user input for the related parameters20:35
attahthese pages are published somehow centrally kind of like the per-app settings20:36
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attahplus they own the dispatch method probably20:36
rigosecurity?20:37
attahyes, that is an issue20:37
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rigoif you publish methods and provide no ACL or some security method or sandboxing... hmmm...20:38
attahmu initial thought is that it gets a random number from a gui component that somehow makes sure tht it at some point has had user interaction.. and then can only dispatch the call with those parameters,.. and only once20:38
attahprobably not a complete solution20:39
rigowhy don't you use some crypto20:39
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rigoe.g. in KDE they have a "trust" parameter. An unknow app/icon clicked will ask you questions like "do you know what you're doing?" Once you have that, you assign a key and the app can access certain things in your api20:41
attahsounds nice :)20:42
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attahso.. is this even remotely useful..? i have pretty poor immagination and can only come up with quite simple use-cases20:44
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attahStskeeps: skunkworthy?20:46
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r0kk3rzsounds like the share API20:49
r0kk3rzbut more generalised20:49
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salyavinGpodder is now in Jolla store, nice.23:38
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M4rtinKsalyavin: once QtPositioning is also white-listed I'll submit modRana to the store too :)23:54
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