#jollamobile log for Friday, 2015-01-16

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Yanieliekku: the user guide on jolla.com has the old page indicators in the illustrations06:32
Yanielthis should be fixed06:32
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iekkuYaniel, +1 our designers have that as a task, hopefully done during this iteration06:35
iekkuYaniel, thank <306:35
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iekkuah, you were talking about user guide, not design guidelines06:36
* iekku goes to check if we have task for that06:36
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temmi_mooi'm needing more coffee06:37
* iekku too06:37
Yanieljust noticed as someone #elsewhere linked to it06:38
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sebsebsebwhoops I could have  briefly  told quite a few people about Jolla yesterday,  but then didn't,  just straight into the usaul thing that was doing07:24
sebsebseboh well I guess, what's done is done :d07:24
* sebsebseb will show certain people Jolla phone next month anyway, once set up properly etc07:25
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Sail0rhui nice13:10
Sail0r* research SELinux as a solution for system security and application access control13:10
Stskeepshttps://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2015-January/005512.html13:11
Sail0ryeah am currently reading it13:12
Sail0rthis is also nice In the spirit of supporting the community TOHkbd project, we have also implemented keyboard slide policy that will guide the display (un)blanking behaviour when sliding the hardware keyboard in/out.13:12
Sail0rthx Jolla :)13:12
Sail0rmany cool things13:12
chem|stso...Jolla Tablet will have no nfc, no usb3.1, no video out, no TOH possibilities13:13
chem|stoh no kbd-case13:13
pettteris there any update on more features in the messaging system?13:13
pettterin particular, OTR, MUC, File transfer13:13
chem|stno13:13
pettteras in no update, or as in not planned?13:14
chem|stno update and not planned yet13:14
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pettterwill it ever turn up?13:15
chem|stBUT you can help to get them there, those parts are foss13:15
pettterI wish I had the time to do so13:15
chem|stpettter: if 'ever' is actually 'ever', there might be another technology on the market before it gets implemented...13:16
pettterI find that unlikely, but sure13:16
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pettterit is somewhat discouraging, though, that for OTR, the changes in telepathy are already there, and the indication in the together.jolla.com question was that getting the GUI glue in there would be "minimal"13:18
pettter...and that was over six months ago13:19
pettter(or three, depending on how you count)13:19
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chem|stpettter: Jolla is not interested in being a software company, they like to make hardware now13:20
chem|stor make nihilist hardware^^13:20
Stskeepswhat?13:20
pettterif they wanted to do hardware they could've gone for android :P13:20
chem|stpettter: I am just jocking after I read the bits what hardware/features will not be considered for the tablet13:23
chem|stpettter: but they missed the secure messaging train - and security for now completely13:24
pettterthey can still get there13:24
chem|stseems like android can read all my files now...13:25
pettterit requires an effort though13:25
warfareWhere do I file feature requests against caldav? together.jolla.com?13:25
chem|stI would skip all that android compatibility, it slows down development13:25
chem|stwarfare: yes13:25
pettterchem|st: it's beos vs. windows all over again13:25
Sail0rbut if they skip android many people won't buy a jolla at all13:26
Stskeepschem|st: why exactly would it slow down development when jolla development team doesn't work on it13:26
Sail0rwarfare: there are many requests for caldav already search them first13:26
Stskeeps?13:26
warfareSail0r: already have :)13:27
pettterhttps://together.jolla.com/questions/scope:all/sort:activity-desc/page:1/query:caldav/13:27
chem|stSail0r: the effort that has gone in android compatibility could have been spent for apps replacing what was or is needed from android - the sad truth is if you are no hardware manufacturer your own you are fried fish for android hardware as no manufacturer will have drivers for your exotic needs13:28
Sail0rI think most of the android compatibilty is not done by jolla themself or is it?13:28
chem|stStskeeps: it slows the ecosystem, not jolla13:28
Stskeepsthen don't say it slows down development :)13:29
Sail0ras long as the store does not support paying for apps it will always be slow I think13:29
chem|stStskeeps: does Jolla pay for android devel?13:29
Stskeepsof course, but that's built into the price of the device and a leading reason why people buy the device in the first place. without that, there wouldn't be enough money to even look at development.13:30
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Sail0rhttp://www.myriadgroup.com/press/news/myriad-powers-android-apps-on-first-jolla-smartphone/13:31
chem|stStskeeps: I know, that is the sad thing...13:32
Stskeepsit doesn't cause slowness in any way, instead, it increases13:32
Stskeepsspeed13:33
Sail0rFirst I didn't like the idea of android on sailfish13:35
Sail0rbut this way it's the only way we got Jollas from our company for work13:35
Sail0rbecause we can even run the apps we need for work13:35
faenilSail0r, sometimes you just have to accept that for jolla to survive it needs a few compromises13:35
faenilhaving an android runtime is one of those, for the time being, imho13:35
chem|sttrue13:35
Sail0rthat's what I say ;)13:35
faenilwe just have to accept, if we want to see jolla growing, that's it13:35
faenil:)13:36
Sail0rIf Jolla hadn't Android support I wouldn't get one from my company13:36
TemeVone thing I dont' like in open source communities is these "please don't waste time on <add your choise here> because I don't need that"13:36
Sail0rthat's not only open source ;)13:36
tadzikit's people13:37
Sail0rit's every part of human live ;)13:37
TemeVyeah, true13:37
Sail0rsome say "don't build cars, because I don't need them I have a train"13:37
TemeVbut it is kind of ok, when you are paying for the product13:37
faenilSail0r, sorry, I meant to highlight chem|st ;)13:38
Sail0rah ;)13:38
TemeVactually, ignore my last post13:38
TemeVit doesn't make sense13:38
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chem|stStskeeps: so the meeting had it, no TOH for the tab, not even external connectors...13:40
Stskeepsotoh USB OTG seems to work pretty nicely13:40
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faenilgreat! any spoiler on what we can do with *that* otg?13:41
Stskeepsblog post in progress, afaik13:41
faenilcool13:41
chem|stwith by the time getting obsolete usb2 port13:41
chem|stbut yes cool ;)13:41
Sail0rusb2 obsolet?13:42
Sail0rI don't have any single device which does support usb 3 :x except my macbook and my desktop but no plugable13:43
chem|stSail0r: the usb3.1c connector is about to hit the markets, I am not about usb3 vs usb2 but the c connector will change things13:43
Sail0rah k sorry misunderstood13:44
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chem|stand planned is microUSB2-B just like the phone13:45
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Sail0rk that's strange13:46
Sail0rbut the tablet was planned before usb 3.1c made it to the markets13:46
Sail0rso you always get old fashioned things as "new" because there is a planning phase13:46
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chem|stSail0r: 3.1c is final for some time now, and that it will hit start of 2015 was said too13:48
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Sail0rbut companies also ship android 4.2 :x13:49
pettterchem|st: so if I want to fix the UI glue for OTR, where do I find the stuff to develop that?13:49
chem|stpettter: uh the messaging ui is not open afaik, so that is indeed jolla....13:50
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chem|stpettter: better check if otr really works properly, a proof of concept shown to jolla usually helps at that end13:51
pettterhttp://blog.davidedmundson.co.uk/blog/ktp_0.913:52
tbrpettter: a very good target to show something works is to use nemomobile, as that has only open source implementations.13:53
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tbrpettter: we did the same with SIP and the dialer, as sailfish dialer is closed, we used the nemo dialer to show that it works.13:54
petttertbr: and will that be getting into sailfish?13:54
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tbrpettter: if you show it on nemo, then it's a very convincing argument / proof of concept to bring it to the sailfish side. As only the UI differs14:04
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pettterlet me put it this way: are there concrete examples of this actually working?14:06
pettterI likely won't have time to do it either way14:06
tbryes, we've done it with SIP and it helped to make the case14:07
pettterwhen?14:08
locusfsometime in december afaik14:08
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tbrlocusf: do you happen to know if the nemo messaging ui uses the same storage? or can be made to? Then it could even be a starting point to work on a replacement messaging UI.14:10
tbras Jolla has shown zero movement on our petitioning for messaging UI open sourcing / fixes, as opposed to SIP, where there was a vague promise14:10
locusftbr: haven't looked at messaging in either Jolla or nemo yet, will take a look now14:10
* tbr bows, thank you!14:11
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locusftbr: a quick look pertains a yes as an answer14:17
tbrsounds interesting then. :)14:17
tbrlocusf: I guess it can be made to run on sailfish too, probably simple QML so not even need to pull in glacier?14:18
* tbr goes to look for the package :)14:18
locusftbr: yes it can14:18
locusftbr: https://github.com/nemomobile/qmlmessages14:18
tbrtnx!14:18
* tbr goes to check obs for packages14:18
locusfhttps://build.merproject.org/package/show/nemo:devel:apps/qmlmessages14:18
TemeVso that could be used e.g. for group chats with telepathy?14:19
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locusfI suppose no one has tried group chats yet14:19
tbrhttps://build.merproject.org/package/show/nemo:testing:apps/qmlmessages14:19
tbr:)14:19
tbrTemeV: it /should/ work. ISTR on harmattan there was a hidden half broken implementation already, no idea if qmlmessages would need much work.14:20
tbrbut it's open source, so the community can fix it :)14:20
locusfit has an account selector, so if that telepathy plugin provides an account it could work with qmlmessages14:22
Stskeepsgrass is always greener on the other side: https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=8294914:22
Stskeeps(not related to current conversation)14:22
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tbrStskeeps: I "love" the ticket resolution...14:24
locusftbr: you do need to pull in qt-components14:24
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tbrlocusf: yeah, just noticed that it freaks out with missing stuff after just a copypac14:25
TemeVtbr: I would be intereted on testing it atleast. I wish I had the time for fixing also :)14:25
tbrlocusf: hmm, why does it complain about qt 4.7 being missing?14:26
locusftbr: use :devel:apps14:26
tbrk, trying14:27
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tbrit's building \o/ https://build.merproject.org/package/live_build_log/home:tbr:sailfish/qmlmessages/latest_armv7hl/armv8el14:28
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tbraand built :)14:29
Stskeepsnothing more fun than git rebase on an android tree14:29
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tbrhmm, misses qmlcontacts14:32
* tbr goes to build :)14:32
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Tofequit14:41
tbrhrm, now it's missing nemo-qml-plugin-folderlistmodel14:42
Tofeoops, sry14:42
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TemeVtbr: and soon you have the whole glacier ui installed? :)14:44
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tbrTemeV: mhhh, I'm afraid of something like that...14:45
tbrlet's see14:45
tbrnext: qmlfilemuncher14:45
locusfwhaa14:45
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tbrnothing provides qmlgallery needed by qmlcontacts14:57
locusf:)14:58
tbrthis starts to be a bit bothersome...14:58
locusfjust add the devel:apps repo and be happy :)14:58
tbrare they binary compatible?14:58
locusfthey are14:58
locusfhmm14:58
locusfin the context of Jolla I'm not too sure :p14:58
tbrok, more rebuilding then :)14:59
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tbrFatal error: jolla-messages-0.4.31.3-10.44.1.jolla.armv7hl obsoletes qmlmessages provided by qmlmessages-0.2.3-10.1.1.jolla.armv7hl15:11
tbrnow, do I dare?15:11
javispedrohi hello15:11
locusfyou can always reinstall :)15:11
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tbrlocusf: ok, it starts and shows the messages! \o/15:15
tbrlocusf: but I can't open conversations and pressing + to create a new message fails too15:16
locusftbr: excellent :)15:16
locusfah :/15:16
locusfanything in journal?15:16
tbrqrc:/qml/AccountSelector.qml:53 Type SelectionDialog unavailable15:16
tbrmissing undeclared dependency?15:17
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tbrlocusf: http://pastebin.com/0Emeps6z - full log15:19
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locusftbr: taking a look at the last error, it seems that you need to patch that file15:20
locusf/usr/lib/qt5/qml/com/nokia/meego/Dialog.qml15:20
locusfline 10515:20
tbrok, let me just edit the file on device15:20
tbr"backgroundRect = 0.0;"?15:21
locusfyep just remove it15:21
locusfI fixed the wrong branch earlier so the change didn't propagate to all the apps15:21
tbrawesomesauce, it works!15:22
tbrnice and shmooov, I'd say this can work as a replacement and prototyping area.15:23
tbrbenefit: we get improvements into nemo15:23
locusfdownside: glacier sees less attention15:24
locusfunless we start again with new app as I did with the dialer15:24
tbrglacier builds for sailfish...15:26
locusfyeah but the apps are qt-components15:26
tbrok, so the app would need a rewrite15:26
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locusfjep15:28
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locusfit appears that Jolla stopped working on qt-components a year ago15:33
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Sail0ryay now I can see the unsupported emojis :x15:36
Sail0rbecause pebble does display them correctly15:36
Sail0rbut not jolla :x15:36
locusfah it seems qt-components-qt5 is only updated on mer-core:devel15:37
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tbrhttps://twitter.com/tbr23/status/55611693131788697615:54
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Stskeepswarsaw police: finds a woman's leg in the river, sends it for dna testing. turns out it's a prosthesis. took 8 days to figure that out.15:58
faeniltbr, what is the performance like?15:58
faenilStskeeps, lol15:58
tbrStskeeps: ROFL15:59
Stskeepstbr: http://warszawa.gazeta.pl/warszawa/1,34862,17266968.html#MTstream15:59
tbrfaenil: really nice, only problem I saw so far is the black stripe if OSK is showing15:59
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faeniltbr, mmm I wonder if that's actually the place where the toolbar should ne16:00
faenilbe16:00
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faenilmm no, PageHeader16:02
faeniltbr, is the black stripe visible when kbd is closed?16:04
faenil(guess not)16:04
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tbrfaenil: nope16:04
tbrfaenil: you can just add my obs repo and try :)16:05
tbrhttp://repo.merproject.org/obs/home:/tbr:/sailfish/latest_armv7hl/16:05
faenilI'll probably do it later this evening ;) thanks16:05
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FiXionjolla (after updating) deleted my email account :(16:46
FiXiontrying to add it - it fails16:47
FiXionhow can I find out why it fails?16:47
FiXionany log on the phone to get details from?16:47
tbrFiXion: enable developer mode, then in settings/developer enable ssh16:48
tbronce on the device journalctl is your friend16:48
FiXionwhen did they switch to systemd ?16:49
faenilit's always been systemd-based16:50
FiXionI did look close enough then :)16:51
FiXionI didn't16:51
FiXionthe username is nemo right? (for ssh)16:52
faenil:)16:52
faenilyes16:52
faenildevel-su to get su rights16:52
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FiXiongr8. it died with some oops msg. log output looks odd: http://pastie.org/983555316:54
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faeniltry asking VDVsx though it's weekend *now* :D16:56
FiXiondidn't try enough times appearently16:57
FiXionthird time it worked16:57
FiXionodd16:57
FiXionannoyed that it removed the account in the first place though :(16:58
FiXionnever happened before.. had it for over a year..16:58
FiXionohh well16:58
lachs0rdid btrfs run out of space maybe?16:59
FiXion86% filled currently16:59
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lachs0rcheck with the btrfs tools, not df or the display in the settings app16:59
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FiXionthank you for the hints..16:59
FiXionlachs0r: how do I check with btrfs tools?16:59
lachs0rsec17:00
faenilbtrfs fi show17:00
lachs0rright17:00
FiXionlachs0r: looks like it - http://pastie.org/983556617:00
lachs0rit happened to me a while ago and it was nasty enough that I couldn’t do anything at all with the fs (unable to remove files, unable to truncate them to 0 bytes to free up space for metadata…)17:00
FiXionhow do I fix that..17:00
lachs0rif you can still delete files, do that17:01
FiXionI don't think I have files on it..17:01
FiXionnot that many apps either17:01
lachs0rbtrfs balance should help, right?17:01
lachs0r(not sure atm)17:01
lachs0rif it weren’t for my fear of breaking everything badly, I wouldn’t hesitate a second to move my device to a different fs (most likely an lvm + xfs setup)17:03
lachs0rbtrfs was a really poor choice17:03
FiXionI removed an old backup17:03
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FiXiondown to 8gb of 13gb used17:03
FiXionshould be fine17:03
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lachs0rif you run into this again and can’t do anything, do not reboot the phone (it’s very likely to brick)17:05
faenillachs0r, I read btrfs is quite stable now, but the version in jolla's kernel is ancient,with a few patches on top, afaik17:05
lachs0rfaenil: stable doesn’t mean the design isn’t fundamentally unsuitable for small storage17:06
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faenilhehe17:06
* FiXion hopes his phone stops deleting his accounts :)17:07
FiXionit's also been crashing the messages app several times since the last update17:07
FiXionhave to reboot phone to fix it17:07
lachs0rprobably related17:07
FiXionhow do I interpret this : http://pastie.org/983556617:08
lachs0rif btrfs breaks and nothing helps, try creating a file in /tmp (which is mounted with tmpfs, i.e. in RAM) with dd; 512 MB should be enough. then use losetup to create a loop device for it and add that to btrfs. you should then be able to delete files and snapshots to free up space. if you start getting errors again, remove the device, recreate the file and re-add it17:08
FiXionis 11gb used out of 13.751 gb used17:08
FiXionor ?17:08
lachs0rafter that balance btrfs, remove the device from btrfs, detach the device and delete the file17:09
* FiXion hopes to avoid learning btrfs details like that.. :) it's dirt simple with lvm :)17:09
FiXionalso found an interesting bug if someone calls you at the exact moment you call them17:10
FiXionphone app crashed17:10
lachs0rbtrfs gets really ugly when it runs out of metadata space… which can happen anytime as the fs ages17:10
FiXionthe call was appearently "received in the background" :)17:10
FiXionI'll go eat.. have a nice weekend all :)17:10
lachs0rthey may run balance automatically in newer versions, but in my eyes the fs is still fundamentally flawed17:11
FiXionphone also deleted my jolla account17:11
FiXionwhere do I find that17:11
FiXionI have a jollatides account and an shop jolla account17:12
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stephgFiXion: the Jolla store account is the same credentials17:21
stephg(I think)17:21
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tbrFiXion: jolla shop uses a different account than the device. tides is completely different17:43
stephgtbr: I thought they were the same SSO tho?17:44
* stephg doesn't remember17:45
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tbrstephg: jolla store is the exception somehow17:50
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kimmoliharbour uses same account as on phone18:06
kimmoliif your store == jolla shop18:06
kimmolihttps://account.jolla.com/ there is reset password option18:07
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secwhois sach18:21
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coderusLockscreen player patch for #SailfishOS updated to v0.0.5 gets gestures tracks control https://openrepos.net/content/coderus/patch-lockscreen-mediaplayer-controls18:35
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tadzikooh, nice!18:41
coderusit was a nice challenge :)18:43
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chem|stcoderus: grats! nice effort!19:02
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chem|stcoderus: I don't know how the glance screen sources its items but the mediacontrol is not shown nor current track - meant to be?19:18
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chem|sthas anyone managed to break his/her display frame? (the plastic 2mm frame housing the glass)19:20
coderuschem|st: no idea, i never used glance on jolla :)19:20
coderuschem|st: mine have many scratches19:21
coderusbut not break :)19:21
chem|stmine is broken on several locations, no idea how that happened19:22
chem|styou barely see it but in the right light condition and when you follow the sides with your fingernail you can feel it19:22
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temmi_moojarbarkar21:22
temmi_mooso i'm tied to otaniementie until sunday afternoon21:23
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Nicd-yay next update notes: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2015-January/005512.html22:53
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