#jollamobile log for Sunday, 2015-02-01

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falfaI have the same problem00:12
falfabut on other public wifi spots00:12
falfacrappy html i guess00:13
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tigeliMikaela: falfa: fennekki: I've already fixed that problem and it will be part of u1101:18
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fennekki:O neat01:24
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sqozzhi all, i'm trying to compile the "new" sailfish-browser but the package requires "jolla-ambient"… is there some source of this package or is it one of the closed source packages?02:04
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pdanekIs Arch Linux still as good as it was before?03:01
Yanielit's awesome03:01
Yanielif you are into that kind of thing03:01
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pdanekWhat is "that kind of thing"?03:02
sqozzpdanek: and if you have no problem with the deep systemd integration03:02
sqozzi think the "kind of thing" Yaniel means is a rolling relase distribution03:03
fennekkipdanek: depends on when "before" was03:03
sqozzrelease*03:03
pdanekI tried Arch maybe 5 years ago.03:05
pdanekIt was OK.03:05
pdanekBut I'm not sure if I'm still into it, I tend to use things which work out of the box lately.03:06
pdanekI used RHEL on laptop for some time, it was stable, worked fine, but SW is archaic.03:06
sqozzthen arch is maybe not the right distribution for you…03:07
pdanekAnd Fedora has new SW, but it breaks often.03:07
sqozzsometimes you just need to spend time on fixing some things…03:07
pdanekOpenSUSE may be good combination of stability and modern OS I guess.03:07
cryoratpdanek, often is not a word which describe it completely03:07
YanielI once spent a nice saturday throwing out rEFInd in favour of gummiboot so it would boot again in the first place03:08
Yanielbut eh, totally worth the experience for me03:08
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pdanekI always had issues with Fedora.03:09
pdanekWhile RHEL was just running ages for me.03:09
pdanekOn laptop.03:09
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sqozzfedora is the playground for redhat and RHEL is simply stable as hell03:11
sqozzmuch like debian or centos03:11
pdanekThat's why I'm considering OpenSUSE03:12
cryoratpdanek, bloatware as i see03:14
cryoratim now stuck with fedora, i use sddm instead gdm, because of random logouts, freezes etc03:15
cryoratwhen i have some time ill try to fix my arch03:16
cryorati dont know where it did break03:17
pdanekWhy bloatware.03:18
cryoratdid you brough a laptop with preinstalled windows?03:20
pdanekcryorat: yes, that's usually full of bloatware03:21
pdanekWhat does it have to do with OpenSUSE?03:21
cryoratif you want the feeling go on and install it :)03:21
cryoratlot of unuseful stuff preinstalled03:22
pdanekI don't think it's true with latest version.03:23
pdanekI did in virtual box so far and it was just fine.03:23
cryoratits integrates nicely btw, its very consistent and robust03:23
cryoratbut i dont like that preinstall every fscking software ideology03:23
cryoratim not into that03:23
pdanekright03:24
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Mikaelafennekki: I won't get deauthenticated, I think that Jolla thinks that I do get deauthenticated and tries to go somewhere probably login page and if I close the web browser it will return back soon08:39
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Mikaelatigeli_: when will u11 be released?08:40
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tiwakedododo08:43
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gexc-phoneit could be stay tuned™08:48
Mikaelais stay tuned™ relative to soon™?08:49
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Teemuany day now08:51
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tigeli_Mikaela: real soon now (tm) ;)08:52
gexc-phonelol08:52
Mikaelaat least it's closer than #freenode-gms :(08:52
Teemuwhat's that then?08:55
Mikaelafreenode's group management system and they won't allow new projects be registered until that is done. the main thing why people want it is the ability to give new project cloaks08:56
Mikaelahttps://freenode.net/gms.shtml08:56
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Teemuheadhurt08:59
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Mikaelaand it seems that my other issue was also duplicate https://together.jolla.com/question/78885/idea-independent-system-sound-level-adjustment/09:20
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r0kk3rzyou should be able to do that with pulseaudio09:26
r0kk3rzhow? not sure09:26
Mikaelathat is said on the issue too09:27
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r0kk3rzhttps://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Configuring_Sound_on_Linux/Pulse_Audio/Testing09:42
r0kk3rzthat looks like it might be helpful09:42
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tiwakeis 150mAh bigger battery going to be noticeable?09:58
Stskeepswell, let's say that standby on 3g can be something like 3,8mA09:59
Stskeepsthen that's 39 hours more on standby on 3g09:59
tiwakea wireless card might use what... 100mA? 75mA?10:01
Stskeepsit depends on what it's doing10:01
tiwakethats what the radio is typically using I thought10:02
Stskeepsin standby? naah10:02
StskeepsPSM helps a lot there / WMM10:02
tiwakewhat is that?10:02
r0kk3rztiwake: its probably going to be negligible, but 150mah more is better than 150mah less10:02
Stskeepstechnology to power save on wifi10:02
Stskeepswhile idle10:02
Stskeepsidle wlan + 3g can be something like 6mA10:03
tiwakehmm10:03
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tiwakeand its not exactly clear to me... are both the 32gig and 64gig tablets going to have the 4450mAh battery?10:04
Stskeepsworth asking10:04
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tadzikheh, much activity on https://together.jolla.com/question/53124/option-to-disable-the-select-internet-connection-popup/10:05
tadzikit annoyed me so much coming back from fosdem to hotel yesterday, seems like not only me :o10:05
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r0kk3rzits more annoying when you've deliberately disabled your data connection because you dont want the app to connect10:11
tadzikyeah, "let me go into my map app..." and a popup pops up and makes you enable your mobile data accidentally, charging you crazy amount10:12
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tigeli_tadzik: wait for the next update, it will ease up10:31
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tadzikgood to hear, thanks :)10:32
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MikaelaI don't think I understand these updates. Everyo ne is talking about update 11 while the current version is 1.1.1.27. Is there some other version hidden somewhere?10:47
tadzikyeah, that bothers me a bit too10:47
tadzikthere is no mapping from /u\d{2}/ format to the official version format, no other than "everybody talks like that" :P10:48
tadzik1.1.1.27 is the 11th update, so people call it u1110:48
Mikaelacatting "/etc/*-release" gives all kinds of numbers too, but none is 1010:49
tadzikI haven't found any other way than "always remember what update you're on" :P10:49
tbrtadzik: make a wikipedia page listing the versions so far, watch how it autoupdates itself 5min after jolla announces next update ;)10:49
tadzikyou know what? There sohuld be an app for that :P10:50
tadzikor a settings plugin10:50
Mikaelaso I am running u11 which has fixed the captive portal bug that I am having with u11?10:50
tadzik"you are now on u11 and don't ask me how I know"10:50
Mikaelaand u11 is coming "really soon now™"10:50
Mikaeladifficult :(10:50
Mikaelahttp://sprunge.us/SVMK10:51
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tigeli_tadzik: 1.1.1.27 is u1010:54
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tadziktigeli: yeah, thing is, the only source of this knowledge is this IRC channel :)10:55
tigeli:)10:55
tadzikor reading and counting release notes :)10:55
tigeliwell, we use those uXX's internally..10:55
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tadzikthen perhaps the Saifish OS Updates thingy in settings could say that too?10:56
tigelimaybe. :)10:56
tadziklike "Version 1.1.1.27 (u10)"10:56
tadzikthat'd be nice :)10:56
tigeliyou suggest it on together :)10:56
tadzikokay10:56
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Mikaela+1, please link me to together thread and I will vote it10:59
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tadzikhttps://together.jolla.com/question/79351/add-uxx-numbering-scheme-to-sailfishos-version-in-settings/ there it is11:10
MikaelaThanks :)11:11
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mornfalloh, update, is there going to be an update or what? :-P11:16
mornfallI wouldn't mind workable carddav...11:17
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tadzikshhh, they delay it one day every time you ask :P11:17
mornfalltadzik: nah, they delay it a week every time you publish a CVE against one of the core packages :P11:18
tadzikhehe, that too11:18
* Stskeeps enters new toolchian11:19
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r0kk3rzinteresting to see what form the security patches come in post u1111:36
Sail0rlink?11:36
r0kk3rzno link, just something aard was talking about here11:36
aard_r0kk3rz: same as before, you'll see a new update. just the way we get there changed11:37
Sail0rah ok11:38
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r0kk3rzoh right11:42
r0kk3rzall the magic behind the scenes11:43
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mornfallStskeepz: what new toolchain?11:50
Stskeepzmornfall: gcc4.811:50
mornfallboring :-)11:50
mornfallwhat about clang 3.5?11:50
Stskeepzif you can build entire distro with it11:50
Stskeepz:P11:50
mornfalldoes freebsd count? :P11:50
mornfallmy box is all clang-3.5-built11:50
svuorelaStskeepz: openmandriva has a talk about it.11:50
Stskeepzoh interesting11:51
mornfalllinux kernel is a problem though11:51
svuorelaor maybe it was yesterday.11:51
mornfallbut hey, gcc 4.8 has almost-working C++11 ;-)11:51
mornfallthat's progress11:52
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mornfall(certainly a lot more working that 4.7 had)11:52
MikaelaI have been lately using clang for everything and only unset CC and CXX when I haven't been able to compile something with it (ZNC 1.5 in Debian Stable, too old clang)11:52
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mornfallMikaela: my znc is built with clang 3.411:53
mornfallbut yeah, debian stable11:53
mornfallthat's gcc 4.7 era11:53
Mikaelamornfall: which znc? 1.5 started requiring was it that C++11 and doesn't compile11:53
mornfallMikaela: 4f48bff6a4bd3871ce2d781286856eb9d9b7b6d811:54
mornfallabout 6 weeks old11:54
MikaelaI see11:54
MikaelaYour clang probably isn't directly from Debian Stable repositories+11:55
mornfallalso, clang + libstdc++ is not the best combo ever11:55
mornfallMikaela: no, it's from freebsd 10.1 base :-)11:55
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Mikaela11:55
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MikaelaDebian clang version 3.0-6.2 (tags/RELEASE_30/final) (based on LLVM 3.0)11:56
mornfallouch11:56
Mikaelais from Debian Stable11:56
mornfalldon't they at least have 3.1 as an extra package? that could have maybe made it...11:56
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mornfallor is only gcc versioned that way?11:56
* mornfall can't remember11:56
MikaelaI don't see anything and I am not root11:57
Mikaela% apt-cache search clang|sprungeus11:57
Mikaelahttp://sprunge.us/hGZX11:57
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svuorelaStskeepz: it is apparantly in the llvw room in 20 minutes11:57
mornfallMikaela: indeed, llvm 3.1 but not clang to go with it11:58
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mornfallunless znc does some quite fancy stuff, 3.1 would be probably enough11:59
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MikaelaI think znc does some quite fancy stuff as http://paste.progval.net/show/1256/12:00
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Tegu(the same goes to any device/stuff)16:20
Teguoh, wrong window16:20
attahI'm playing with the adb in alien dalvik.. and i have the problem that input segfaults no matter what i throw at it :(16:21
Teemuanybody use graphviz for anything or are all using visio/omnigraffle/inkscape?16:23
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Teemumornfall: how many freebsdians lurk on the channel?16:29
mornfallTeemu: how would I know?16:30
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Teemudunno, from the surface it looks like you're one16:31
mornfallmaybe :)16:31
mornfallbut freebsd isn't a secret society16:31
fennekkiit isn't?16:31
fennekkiAre you sure16:31
mornfallwell, if it is, I was definitely left out16:32
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tiwakeTeemu: you making graphics or something? an animation?16:33
Teemutiwake: i'm a software nerd wanting to describe architectural diagrams16:33
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Teemuoh16:33
Teemui'm an electrician by trained trade16:33
Teemuwent to school for that16:33
tiwakeTeemu: erm, I mean in relation to your question about inkscape or whatever16:34
Teemulast february i decided it's time to support myself on open source and dedicate my time to ell-i open source cooperative16:34
tiwakeI use inkscape a fair amount for hobby art16:34
Teemurelated to that q16:34
tiwakenever heard of the other things16:35
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mornfallTeemu: (btw. I use graphviz... :)16:37
Teemui've tried to use inkscape but it seems a bit too handworky16:37
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Teemui'd wish there was some way to describe a graph in text and then by magick be able to do the graphical adjustments in some wysiwyg tool16:37
Teemumornfall: in open source software context?16:39
mornfallTeemu: http://divine.fi.muni.cz/try.cgi :-)16:39
Teemuhttps://github.com/temmihoo/just-like-star-trek  <-- has some ideas i'd want to graph out and all graphical tools seem very slow in the initial phase when i'm just creating and naming elements and their relationships16:40
Teemumornfall: oh cool16:41
mornfallfor laying out things, I have taken on to metapost recently... but the entry barrier is a bit high16:41
Teemufirst google hit indicates entry curve much like that of vi16:43
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mornfallpossibly a bit higher, depending on your usecase16:44
Teemuthen again, after learning vi i've just shortly tried other editors and always come back to vi16:46
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fennekkivim16:46
fennekkiis better16:46
fennekkineovim is going to be better I hope16:46
Teemuare there other current vi:s than vim?16:47
fennekkiyes16:47
fennekkilike busybox vi which is, IIRC, POSIX-compliant16:47
Teemui used the the vi until freebsd switched to nvi and then later into vim16:47
fennekkianyway vim is... it's better16:47
Teemuhaven't taken much use for the vimish features except v-highlighting stuff i just love16:47
fennekkiit's just better16:47
fennekkinot even unlimited undo?16:48
fennekkiPOSIX vi only has one undo level16:48
fennekkitapping u twice is as such a no-op: it undoes and redoes whatever you did last16:48
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Teemuif i want to use vi, why would i use busybox? :)16:49
fennekkiI don't know but it *has* a vi16:49
Teemualso: i'm more interesting in using the editor than switching it and finding out how to customize it etc16:50
fennekkiI guess16:50
fennekkithough I usually only change my configs when I figure out something I could do better, anyway16:50
Teemui already spent the summer of 1992 basically editing .tvtwmrc for the bestest finalest touches for optimalest ultimatest computering16:50
Teemunaturally emacs has vi16:51
r0kk3rzemacs has everything16:51
Teemuyes16:52
Teemuit took a long time for me to quit nibbling with the tools and just use them16:52
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Teemumornfall: that divine looks definitely interesting16:54
Teemuis there anything analog to karnaugh map for software that would help bring an algorithm to its bare essentials?16:56
Teemu(also unreadable unless you do pattern matching)16:56
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tiwakeTeemu: yeah, inkscape is rather time consuming to make nice things with17:05
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tiwakeTeemu: I used it for engraving where I used to work... make whatever line art and the machine follows the lines17:06
Teemuit seems i'd perhaps be happier with graphviz and then be prepared that its layout might not be visually balanced17:07
tiwakeTeemu: a thing I made in inkscape a while back... spent way too much time on it http://tiwake.deviantart.com/art/Chrysalis-sad-32483792217:09
Teemuaaw17:10
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tiwakeyeah... it was strange feeling bad for her as I was making it17:12
tiwakelol17:12
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Teemu:)17:16
tiwakeTeemu: http://fav.me/d69e7gz http://fav.me/d68ua8f engraving and the line art I made in inkscape17:18
Teemu:)17:19
tiwakemeh, that picture isnt very good17:19
tiwakew/e17:19
Teemuit happens17:19
tiwakethe other side of it has a better picture http://fav.me/d69e85y17:19
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Yanieluhh tracker really needs some more work17:45
Yanielit seems to choose the wrong file as album cover outright reliably17:45
r0kk3rzYaniel: i dont think thats trackers fault17:46
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Yanielwhatever process handles that then17:47
r0kk3rzin jolla-media i think that grillo17:48
Yanielit's almost as if it first tried to find a png/jpg file whose name does NOT match "folder" or "cover"17:48
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r0kk3rzi need to dig more into trackers album recognition17:49
r0kk3rzdoes seem to be a bit haphazard17:49
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coderusis there some legal problems in publishing stella ambience for sailfishos hacked from android stella launcher?18:23
coderusStskeepz: ^18:23
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ln-the obvious legal problem is that it's illegal.18:26
Tomin618:27
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MikaelaDoes Jolla have option somewhere to show touches? It's option in Android developer settings that I always enabled so it showed white point where my fingers were and I liked it because it's helpful when a little wet hands are thought as touches or the device is lagging.18:34
MikaelaI tried to search together.jolla.com and it said nothing on "show touch", but I am not sure if I am even trying the corect words. Another option which I always checked there was to keep screen on when charging, but that appeared with u10 (do I remember uXX correctly?).18:35
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Yanielyes18:36
Mikaelayes to option or remembering uXX correctly? :)18:37
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MikaelaI probably shouldn't ask so many questions at the same time.18:37
Mikaelaoh and if it was to option, where is it?18:37
locusftypical finnish answer to multiple choice question :) like mine18:37
Yanielyes to u10, settings -> system -> screen for the option18:38
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MikaelaI don't see it there unless you confused "show touch" and "keep screen on when charging"18:40
Yanielyes that's the one I meant18:41
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eyea_UKJolla )01!@ yoh18:43
Mikaeladpes the other one exist or thread at together or should I open one?18:43
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Nicd-Mikaela: search in TJC, if there's no thread, add one18:48
eyea_UKany decent what app for Jolla sailfish18:48
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MikaelaI see. I assume there ins't one as I cannot think of anything else than "show touch"18:49
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Mikaelaoh, multitasking and I forgot to say that I opened https://together.jolla.com/question/79419/feature-request-allow-showing-touches/18:57
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attahHas anyone been playing with Android intents on the Jolla?20:08
coderusattah: what is it?20:11
attahumm.. kind of actions that can be sent to apps (os handled byssystem)20:11
attahcan't say i'm an expert in the area20:11
attahjust messing around to see f it would be daobel to make cover actions for android apps20:12
coderusread some article, looks good20:13
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attahyeah.. i think it could be useful :)20:15
attahi found this.. but that's as far as i got too https://together.jolla.com/question/38863/how-do-i-trigger-an-android-intent-from-outside-alien-dalvik/20:15
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attahI'll just TJC it and have another beer :) https://together.jolla.com/question/79440/android-cover-actions/20:29
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attahStskeepz: May this bear the mark of the skunk?20:33
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r0kk3rzattah: stick it on20:46
attahi'll blame you later ;)20:48
r0kk3rzsure :)20:48
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