#jollamobile log for Sunday, 2015-02-15

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JoonaaHello, I currently have my phone in a boot loop, I think it has something to do with the GSM connectivity, any crash logs or such I could get on this?10:27
Stskeepstake out battery, leave it out for 30 seconds, put back in - does it stop it?10:28
Stskeepsdid you update recently? what version of sw?/10:28
Joonaayes10:28
Joonaalatest afaik10:28
Stskeepsok, consider contacting care10:28
Joonaataking out the battery works, this has happened a few times10:28
Joonaaoh hey it works now10:28
Joonaai just waited before entering my pin10:29
r0kk3rzgsm connectivity causing bootloop? interesting10:29
Joonaawell, thats what i think it is... im not touching the screen after entering my pin, and it crashes after a few seconds10:30
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Joonaabut i was wondering if there were any error logs i could look at?10:31
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r0kk3rzjournalctl10:37
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faenilJoonaa: journalctl after devel-su10:58
faeniland if you can't see old messages, set "Storage=persisten" in /etc/systemd/journal.conf10:58
faenil"Storage=persistent"10:59
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faeniland reboot the phone, then wait for the bug to be triggered and check the journalc again10:59
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Joonaafaenil thanks, now to sit patiently.. :)11:22
faenil:)11:23
faenilJoonaa: you might also need additional settings to enable extended network debugging log, but I don't rememberthose ones11:23
faenilyou can try pinging lpotter in 9-10 hours11:24
Joonaai'll ask for that if i cant get any info with this11:24
faenilyeah ;)11:24
faenilyou'll get some info, just not sure if it's enough ;) but yes, first make sure that it's networking11:25
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Joonaachem|st: is there any fix for not being able to write to jolla&android sdcard from windows? ( https://together.jolla.com/question/40802/how-to-format-your-usd-card-to-btrfs-and-share-space-with-android/ )12:01
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klopsi-u3"I dont know if change will bring about improvement, but I know that for things to improve, there must be change."13:20
klopsi-u3- Georg Christoph Lichtenberg13:20
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svuorelacb400f: ! are you a telenor.dk customer? can you receive MMS messages ?14:08
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cb400ftdc (unotel) ... I have received some.. I think for some time I could only receive mms messages from people using tdc network... but lately it seems I have received mms messages succesfully from other networks14:11
cb400fbut I get/send an mms maybe once every 3 months, so it's a bit hard to keep track of the status14:11
svuorelaI never had it working ...14:12
cb400fhm.. iirc there were instructions for telenor on TJC.. from that tbanghus guy or whatever his name is14:14
cb400falso my father has had it working with telenor14:14
cb400ftanghus: https://together.jolla.com/question/38555/mms-issues-hints-for-debugging-and-helping-us-to-improve/14:16
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cb400fbut it is a huge pain.. cuz apparently providers do all kind of funkyness... kloeri mentioned that he had to first send an mms to himself in order to be able to receive mms from others (with his android phone)14:18
svuorelaI do get mms notifications, but when trying to download them, I get "Problem with downloading message"14:19
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svuorelahmm... re-entering a lot of information and disabling wifi kind of made stuff work.14:26
svuorelaI wonder if that's a one-off.14:26
cb400fyep, you need a whole bunch of phone models using different networks etc. to make sure things actually work consistently :-/14:27
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svuorelasend me a picture of your view :)14:38
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svuorelalol. mr. opensuse :)14:43
cb400fguess it worked ;-)14:43
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tiwakedododo... sitting here waiting for the tablet15:43
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tiwakeis SailfishOS the first linux OS that uses wayland by default?15:44
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Sail0rTizen uses it also as default but I don't know who came first15:47
Stskeepstiwake: maybe on mobile, that shipped15:48
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r0kk3rzwell i think it doesnt quite cover all the desktop use cases yet16:01
r0kk3rzbut for mobile its fine16:01
tiwakesure16:01
tiwakethough KDE 5 completely works with it last I knew16:02
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tiwakebut SailfishOS came a fair bit before that16:02
r0kk3rzwell the jolla used it from launch16:04
tiwakeyeah... thats why I thought it might be the first real linux distro that shipped with wayland... *shrug*16:05
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r0kk3rzmaybe, not sure what that gets us though16:06
tiwakea cookie16:06
tiwakelol16:06
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r0kk3rza medal16:07
tiwakesounds like fedora 22 is going to be based on wayland16:07
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r0kk3rzits there as an option16:08
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tiwakehttp://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2015/01/19/planning-for-fedora-workstation-22/16:09
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tiwakenever actually used fedora16:09
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r0kk3rzlike everything else really16:10
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japa-fiI'm fedora user since fedora 1116:30
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Teemuuh19:00
Teemusorry19:00
r0kk3rzso you should be Teemu19:03
r0kk3rz:P19:03
Edelwin:'D19:05
Teemui know, i've tried rpm based linuxen19:07
fennekkilinuces?19:07
Teemu:)19:08
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TeguGNU/Linux distributions, ofc19:09
fennekki"...or as I've recently started calling it, GNU+Linux"19:09
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TeguGNU+Linux distributions, ofc19:09
TeguI heard some RMS's talk where he used GNU+Linux, so it confused a bit19:11
Teemuwho is this GNU+Linux guy?19:11
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TeemuGNU/Linux I know and disagree with19:11
fennekkiTeemu: RMS19:12
fennekkirms is both of those iir19:12
fennekkic19:12
TeguI had missed that he's started to use it19:12
Teemufennekki: oh okay19:12
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Teemunot really surprised19:12
Tegu:P19:12
r0kk3rzmaybe he got sick of saying 'slash'19:13
fennekkiI never pronounce the slash anyway19:13
Teemui never say gnu/linux anyway19:13
r0kk3rzRMS does (or did)19:13
fennekkieven though that's the rms-canonical way to say it19:13
Teemui just say linux when speaking about distros19:13
r0kk3rzas do most people, hence his pedantry19:14
fennekkiI don't even disagree with rms most of the time19:14
fennekkihe's not even that wrong19:14
fennekkilike19:14
Teemuhe wants to own the word free19:14
r0kk3rzif I had made a significant part of what is commonly considered 'Linux' i would probably get pedantic about it as well19:14
fennekkieven the less sane-sounding ideas like that all cell phones are being monitored19:14
fennekkiturned out to be true19:14
fennekkiTeemu: that's a strange way to think about it19:15
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Teemualso his freedom is very restricted19:15
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fennekkinot that restricted compared to most other freedoms you have19:16
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Yaniel*don't have19:16
fennekki'scuse19:16
r0kk3rzTeemu: perhaps, but when you're looking into freedom as a right, and freedom as ethics, then your freedom ends where mine begins19:17
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silver_hookYesterday I bugged you guys regarding I♥FS day, but I forgot to mention that after that I blogged about Jolla’s community as well: http://matija.suklje.name/i-love-fs-201519:17
fennekkithe point of the GPL is pretty much to make more software free as in FSF19:17
fennekkiit's completely reasonable, too19:17
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r0kk3rzand its about balancing the freedom of the developer vs the freedom of the user19:18
Teemur0kk3rz: i still get annoyed when rms is trying to sell his restricted version of freedom as somehow more free than just being free to do whatever19:18
Teemuthe gpl has a resctriction, put there on purpose, and it might be valid19:19
fennekkiTeemu: it restricts the freedom to be an asshole, in a sense19:19
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silver_hookfennekki: I like that explanation.19:19
fennekkiyou can't choose to use and modify something and NOT contribute19:19
Teemuwhat I'm _mostly_ against is that rms is purpoting that this restriction is in fact more free than the freedom without restrictions19:19
fennekkiit IS, in a way19:20
Teemuno it is not :)19:20
fennekkido whatever you want -free19:20
fennekkimeans that proprietary software will keep being a thing19:20
r0kk3rzTeemu: depends on what you consider 'more' in this scenario19:20
Teemuthe restriction has its validation and i'm not arguing that19:20
r0kk3rzgreatest sum freedom, or greatest individual freedom19:20
Teemui'm arguing _how_ rms argues around this restriction19:20
Teguget WTFPL for ultimate freedom! (also freedom to not contribute :P)19:21
fennekkiyou do have the freedom to not contribute with the GPL19:21
Teguif you don't publish19:22
fennekkiit just says that if you do, and then distribute your resulting program19:22
fennekkiyou have to let everyone who gets that do the same19:22
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silver_hookThe difference between copyleft and lax/permissive licensing is basically the choice between *what* is the freedom you want protect – with lax is the freedom of the individual to do whatever they want with the code and thus for the code to be included as widely as possible; with copyleft the freedom of the code is paramount, by making sure that the code will forever remain free.19:22
fennekkimost of the restrictions are around contributors and forks and whatnot being unable to remove the freedoms from th eusers19:22
fennekkiyeah, that19:23
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fennekkialso, as an interesting question19:23
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fennekkican anyone name a benefit from a non-open-source propretiary software to anyone19:23
fennekkiin general19:23
fennekkiany specific one19:23
fennekkinot like19:23
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fennekkibut if you publish a propretiary piece of software19:24
fennekkiwhat are the benefits19:24
fennekkito anyone19:24
klopsi-u3you can pay your developers19:24
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fennekkiyou can pay your developers otherwise, too19:25
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fennekkibasically, put this way:19:25
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fennekkiif Photoshop was GPL'd19:25
fennekkias many people would still buy it19:25
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fennekkifrom someone, anyway19:25
fennekkiunder the GPL Adobe would only have to distribute the source code to people who buy it19:27
klopsi-u3photoshop Creative Suite is what, 1000 euro19:27
fennekkialso, anyone else distributing it would be in a breach of the license if they did not provide the source as well19:27
fennekkiso we'd be in largely the same situation19:27
fennekkiSomeone would probably get it to compile and distribute non-Adobe builds of it19:28
fennekkibut in practise that isn't massively different from warez19:28
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fennekkiexcept, you know, some of it would be allowed under the license19:29
fennekkiif this happened overnight most of the distribution would STILL be in a breach of it since they wouldn't be providing the source19:29
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klopsi-u3there's nothing preventing anyone from attempting to provide such software under your model19:30
klopsi-u3except, it not working-out19:31
klopsi-u3i would like to see a lot of gpl software that isnt coming anytime soon19:32
klopsi-u3like good offline map navigation for jolla19:32
fennekkiklopsi-u3: yeah, I'm just saying, the perceived benefits from propretiary software (ie. that you "own" the software, users are licencees) doesn't actually effectively prevent people from doing whatever the hell they want with your software ANYWAY19:33
klopsi-u3ever work for a company fennekki? the ones I have worked for take software piracy pretty seriously19:34
klopsi-u3so yes there is a lot of piracy but there is still enough sales to support million-dollar development budgets19:35
r0kk3rzit depends on the industry19:35
r0kk3rzthe company i work for couldnt care less about piracy19:35
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Teemuwhile gpl makes people and companies publish changes, they are not necessarily tailored to be easy to patch into upstream19:37
r0kk3rzthey dont have to19:39
r0kk3rzso long as its published, then thats the GPL bit done19:39
Teemuyes19:40
r0kk3rzif upstream want to integrate the changes, then they can put in the work to do so19:40
Teemuwhich pretty much means that unless upstream and the whoever work together from the very beginning of making a new feature, it will not end up actually _benefiting_ the upstream19:41
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r0kk3rzits not really about benefiting upstream though19:49
r0kk3rzdownstream used GPLd code to make something19:49
r0kk3rzso its only fair to give other developers the same19:49
r0kk3rzwhich includes upstream, if the changes are something that they like (or their users like)19:50
Teemualso, bsd/mit licencing something does not necessarily mean that all commercial users will by default not publish their changes19:50
r0kk3rzwell no19:53
r0kk3rzGPLing code practically guarantees they wont use it in the first place19:53
Teemuindeed19:54
r0kk3rzif your aim is to get upstream patches, then in most cases GPL isnt a great choice19:54
Teemubsd means they _might_ use it and that in turn enables the possibility that they might actually publish whatever changes they made19:54
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chem|stJoonaa: you should be able to write at least to android via the export of $home/android_sdcard21:01
chem|stJoonaa: something is off there as it should not be a problem to have the normal sdcard volume exported, jolla staff was made aware but unable to reproduce21:02
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kueneunder "settings"->"sound and feedback" i set "message" to "no sound" but I still get a sound when an sms comes in.22:02
kueneany idea?22:02
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r0kk3rzkuene: ambiance settings22:05
kuener0kk3rz, where do i find them?22:07
kuenethe ambience settings. i seem not to be able to find them..22:10
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AcceGallery -> ambiences22:10
Accemight be good to have link or whatnot from the settings..22:10
kueneAcce, thanks. never looked there :-)22:11
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Joonaachem|st: ill try to remember to ask for details tomorrow, but from windows the sdcard is totally empty, but i cant create anything on it22:40
Joonaabut, tomorrow then :)22:40
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ApteryxAny hardware recommendation to run SailOS? JollaPhone is not available in Canada.23:21
Apteryx*Sailfish OS23:21
ApteryxI'd like it to be as hackable as possible (for example with open source drivers, such as freedreno)23:22
M4rtinKwell, the Jolla phone is still the best supported hardware for Sailfish OS23:22
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ikarusApteryx: the tablet iirc will be availible in Canada23:23
M4rtinKBTW, this is the support matrix: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris23:25
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M4rtinKalso even if a device is fully supported (there is no such device ATM), it still won't have the Android emulation layer23:27
M4rtinKbut that depends on your use cases and might not be an issue23:27
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Apteryxikarus: yes, and that's great, but it doesn't have 3G (nor does it fit in my pocket)23:45
ApteryxM4rtinK: Thanks for the pointer.23:46
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ApteryxM4rtinK: just being curious, why is this such a hit or miss (regarding device support), considering libhybris should allow to use all the android drivers?23:48
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M4rtinKApteryx: Android drivers being garbage is my guess23:51
ApteryxM4rtinK: ok :D23:51
M4rtinKApteryx: eq. they probably barely work in the given Android version they have been used with and blow up if you want to use them in a slightly different way23:52
M4rtinKApteryx: but that's just my theory/guess23:52
Apteryxthanks for sharing it23:52
M4rtinKApteryx: I haven't really been involved in the porting effort basically just know the overall theory23:52
M4rtinKtry #sailfishos-porters23:53
Apteryxok!23:53
Apteryxthanks again23:53
M4rtinKthat's where the actually people doing the porting gather :)23:53
M4rtinKno problem, I'm glad when I can help :)23:53

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