#jollamobile log for Thursday, 2015-02-26

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chem|stJ4ZZ: o/00:45
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J4ZZ:) jup01:01
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Stskeepstbr: wow @ boogieboard, i thought it was locked down too06:22
tbrStskeeps: they had published the protocol for the RIP board (IIRC it was USB), so I was hoping to see something, but example code for iOS, Android and Chrome was more than I expected...06:23
Stskeepsnow i might have to get one.. so many paper sketches06:24
tbr:D06:24
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Stskeepsgod damnit, my wallet hurts..06:24
Stskeeps:P06:24
tbrwhat, just 400-500zetas ;)06:24
Teemuboogieboard?06:25
Stskeepshttp://www.myboogieboard.com/06:25
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tbrhttp://www.myboogieboard.com/eu/products/boogie-board-sync-9.html06:26
tbrby looking at their sources it seems they are using fairly standard protocols (or emulating them on the client side?)06:26
* tbr saw OBEX-FTP in there and they mentioned HID06:27
Stskeepsthat'd be nice06:27
tbryou can't port sailfish to it though. ;-þ06:27
Stskeepsdoesn't matter, i'm thinking for solving my own purposes06:27
sakustarwtf http://www.noteslate.com/ , they removed everything from the website? :D06:31
sakustarall the information atleast06:31
Teemuobex-ftp? doesn't that sound a bit like 90s The New And Best Object Committee Designed Request Broker Thing coupled with a 60s File Transfer Protocol (from hell)06:32
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Teemu?06:32
Teemuthe video is not helpful and their site has no bearing on how i would transfer the great memos for me to read on anywhere else than the device06:33
Teemuor that if they are readable on the device...06:33
locusfhttps://github.com/jbedo/boogiesync-tablet06:35
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Teemuon the sync bit there was something about bluetooth and evernote, neither of which are my favourites for anything06:36
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locusfThe Boogie Board Sync is compatible with any operating system that recognizes a USB storage device.06:38
Stskeepssync was bluetooth too wasn't it06:38
Teemuhow nice that the sdk is available for another tablet but not for "a real computer" :)06:39
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Stskeepsnew microsoft is .. strange: http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/02/25/microsoft-releases-android-keyboard-just-10-key-addicts-use-excel/07:20
Teemuhow nice to drop the unnecessary small words from sentences07:21
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Teemuit's like english language doesn't need prepositions or postpositions for anything, they're there just for decorative purposes07:21
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tore_anyone know if ipv6/ipv4v6 support is planned for the next sailfish update?07:26
Stskeepson what medium? wlan? mobile data?07:26
tore_cellular07:27
Stskeepsyou'd have to ask tigeli what stage of promotion his work is on07:27
tore_so ipv6 and/or ipv4v6 pdp contexts07:27
tore_tigeli: see above :)07:27
tore_tigeli: oh, you're the one that fixed my dhcpv6 client issue too :) if I run across more issues like that (I tend to test everything ipv6 to death), would you like them submitted on together.jolla.com or directly in the github tracker?07:29
tigelitore_: maybe tjc07:30
* pp doesn't see a use until the national ipv6 launch day, but then it better work :P07:30
ppso you still have a few months to give it love!07:30
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tigelitore_: and ipv4v6/ipv6-middleware is included in 1.1.2.15/16 but if you want to testride it you need to configure ofono from the cli07:30
tore_pp: cellular ipv6 is launched in norway, sweden, poland, slovenia, usa, maybe ireland and uk too07:31
tigelithe ui will be included when it's ready07:31
tore_tigeli: I definitively would like to testride it07:31
ppyea, finland will join in june or so07:31
tigelitore_: a sec..07:31
Stskeepstore_: what vendors in poland?07:31
tore_Stskeeps: Orange07:31
Stskeepsah, i got rid of orange.. they were stalk-calling me on a regular basis07:31
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tore_Stskeeps: http://www.data.proidea.org.pl/plnog/12edycja/day2/track4/01_ipv6_implementation.pdf07:31
tigelitore_: /bin/dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=org.ofono /ril_0/context1 org.ofono.ConnectionContext.SetProperty string:"Protocol" variant:string:"ipv6"07:32
tigelitore_: that makes ofono ipv6-only07:32
tigelitore_: use "dual" for ipv4v6 and "ip" for ipv4-only07:32
tigelitore_: the default is now "ip"07:32
tore_very cool07:32
tigelikeep in mind that ipv4v6 might not work when roaming even if the home operator supports it07:33
tigelias there are some buggy devices with operators ;)07:33
tore_tigeli: this is your work? so if I tweet a screenshot of test-ipv6.com I should give you you a HT?07:33
tore_tigeli: yeah, same with ipv6, but less common though07:33
tigelitore_: well some of it is.. not all07:34
tore_2: rmnet0    inet6 2a02:2121:1:d5e1:9ff3:ebef:bca:b7bc/64 scope global dynamic07:36
tore_awesome!07:37
tigelitore_: also, the tethering-side is still ipv4-only.. there are no devices which would support prefix delegation on operator side and I'm still wondering if we should do proxy-nd/ipv6-nat to overcome this problem until pd is supported07:37
tbrthat address doesn't answer to pings though, psh!07:37
tore_hm, seems I have no DNS server07:37
tore_browser can't resolve anything07:37
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tore_tigeli: you'd probably want 464XLAT (RFC6877)07:38
tore_that gives an virtual ipv4 address that you can assign to a local interface07:38
tore_tbr: think mobile provider telenor does statefull firewalling of all internet-inbound traffic07:39
tigelitore_: yeah.. in case someone wants to do ipv4 over ipv6-only.. but I meant the case when people want to tether over ipv4v607:39
tore_tigeli: aha07:39
tigelior just plain ipv6 ;)07:39
tore_RFC 7278 is what you should read07:40
tigelitbr: dna allows full-traffic in/out still in beta-deployment07:40
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ppdid they forget port 25 open :-)07:40
tbrtigeli: nice07:41
tore_tigeli: yeah, there's definitively something not going right with provisioning the DNS servers here07:41
tore_on ipv6-only pdp context07:41
tore_I'll try ipv4v6 now07:41
tigelitore_: both rdnss and dhvpv6 are supported though..07:41
tore_but on 3gpp networks the DNS server comes in PCO07:42
tigelibut could be a operator-side issue07:42
tore_you have to ask the RIL about it somehow07:42
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tore_not that I'm an expert or anything07:42
tigelitore_: can't tell.. I only know that autoconf is the only supported method ;)07:43
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tore_it seems to disconnect after a while, is that something it does by default because it detects no usable internet connection (i.e., no working dns)?07:43
tigelitore_: no, it should not do that07:43
Teemuwhy does it try to detect connectivity?07:43
tore_several implementations do that07:44
Teemui'm having trouble with mine deciding "oh this is not a good network i want another" when i'm connected to a special private network07:44
tore_including samsung smart TVs :D07:44
Teemui hate it07:44
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Teemui want to stay connected to this private one that has no connection to any other networks07:45
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tigeliTeemu: it will try to check if the device is inside walled garden and if there is a captive portal07:46
tigeliTeemu: but it will not disconnect if the check fails07:46
Teemucurrently mine goes on to hunt other wlans and 3g07:46
tigeliprobably some other issue then07:46
tigelican't tell without seeing logs07:47
tore_tigeli: on ipv4v6 pdp context dns worked, but not v4 - I eventually got a link-local ipv4 address07:47
Teemui'm not on the latest sailfishos07:47
tore_tigeli: would be happy to give you access to this one now or whenever if you want to look into it07:47
tigeliTeemu: but we have never ever disconnected due that07:48
Teemuproblem is, there is 3g and open wlans in the area07:48
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Teemuso my phone connects to them07:48
tore_tigeli: nevermind, I forgot to change apn name, sorry07:48
tigelitore_: hehe :D07:49
Teemuit doesn't even ask me, it just goes on to connect to these even if i've selected my special network by hand07:49
tigelitore_: and I was already typing debug instructions ;)07:49
tore_so I was on the v6only apn07:49
Teemui hate it07:49
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tigeliTeemu: ok.. if there are multiple available networks in the coverage of the device -> it currently behaves badly as the connman wants to connect the one which has the best signal level07:50
tore_tigeli: got addresse but then it got torn down07:50
tore_https://gist.github.com/toreanderson/1a62e6c9aae0250c42a607:51
tore_addresse*s* (both v4 and v6)07:51
Teemutigeli: must be something else too as this may happen when i'm pretty much next to my base station and further away from aalto open base stations07:51
ShawnMcCoolhas anyone built any interesting alternate input methods for jolla / sailfish?07:52
tigelitore_: hmm.. strange and it does work on other devices?07:53
tore_tigeli: I don't have any other 4G devices with ipv4v6 capability myself, but I know that telenor is using this apn for several other models07:54
tore_tigeli: I can give you shell access to the phone right now if you'd like to poke around07:55
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tigelitore_: I could have a look into it07:59
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tore_tigeli: ssh link in /msg, let me know if you want me to resize the terminal08:00
tigelilet's se..08:01
tore_tigeli: the ipv6-only apn is "telenor.mobil", the dual-stack one is "telenor.smart" (it supports all three pdp types)08:01
tore_it's set up for the latter with ip-type dual now08:02
tigelitore_: you could make the terminal little bit bigger :)08:02
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tigeliat least twice as wide :)08:02
tigelithanks08:02
tore_now mine is larger than yours I can tell :D08:02
tore_new windows/tabs: C-b c, change between them with C-b 0/1/etc08:03
tore_I can connect the wifi08:03
tigeliplease do :)08:03
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zuttoout of curiosity, what does it mean when jollas status light rapidly flashes red light?08:06
Yanielthe UI crashed08:06
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zuttoi see08:06
Yaniel(lipstick tp be precise)08:06
zuttomy jollas touch screen died yesterday after that08:06
urssee https://together.jolla.com/question/30230/wiki-meanings-of-notification-led-blink-codes/08:06
zuttofactory reset didnt help either08:06
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tigelitore_: I know where the problem is.. ;)08:23
tigelitore_: and it's my own stupid mistake :D08:23
tore_:)08:24
tore_that's for the auto-teardown when on ipv4v6?08:24
tore_or the missing dns issue on ipv6?08:24
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tigelitore_: got confused about the updates.. the current update is still missing few patches. :) which are coming on the next public_update :D08:24
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tigelitore_: but if you want, I can provide you with packages which work (if you want to play around).. without any official support ;)08:25
tore_tigeli: I'd love that :)08:25
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cityoflights2A while back in FOSDEM QT introduced their cellular phone.11:19
Stskeepsgreenphone?11:20
cityoflights2right11:20
cityoflights2how is itdiffrent from current jolla?11:20
Stskeepswell, time travel as a start11:21
tbrthat was Qtopia11:21
Stskeepshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenphone11:21
tbrI actually turned down a greenphone back then. Mostly because it had big binary blobs all over it11:22
tbrincluding kernel modules11:22
tbrhad already hands full with one such device, the PMA43011:23
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cityoflights2how much of the openmoko software still lives in jolla?11:27
Stskeepsprobably close to zero11:28
Stskeepswe never based off openmoko11:28
Stskeepsopenmoko made me want to throw the freerunner across the wall when i got it11:28
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chem|stcityoflights2: maemo~>meego~>mer->sailfish11:28
tbrthey used the open source fork of qtopia, didn't they? opie2 or such?11:29
Stskeepschem|st: and debian->11:29
chem|stof course11:29
chem|stthat is the starting base11:29
tbrand moblin11:29
tbrand11:29
tbrand11:29
cityoflights2yet sailfish UI is based on QT as openmoko - right?11:29
chem|stlol11:29
Stskeepsopenmoko was some E crap orginally wans't it11:29
tbrQt is a technology11:30
Stskeepsi forgot11:30
tbrQt is one possible ingredient to cook a device soup11:30
chem|stcityoflights2: if you go that way KDE is based off of openmoko...11:30
chem|st...not11:31
cityoflights2again, I am just trying to understand how come so many engineers, which where aiming at the same goal, didn't "make it happen'11:32
Stskeepsoh, you should see the fragmentation of mobile os'es..11:32
cityoflights2what was wrong in these two famous phones, that sailfish is doing right?11:32
Stskeepsi did a talk on this at some point..11:32
j-dogeit takes so much more than just engineers11:32
j-dogeyou need to f.e. bring the correct engineers together11:32
Stskeepshttps://archive.fosdem.org/2012/schedule/event/391/79_beyond.pdf11:33
j-dogeand do all kinds of support stuff11:33
cityoflights2and why is everyone discarding the work previously did?11:33
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Kiranoshow easy is it to port tizen apps to sailfish?11:34
StskeepsKiranos: tizen has apps?11:34
* Stskeeps runs11:34
Kiranosheh dont know :)11:34
phdeswercityoflights2: lots of reasons, it was badly done before, patents, no support, to heavy, too hard to adjust to new hw, ...11:35
Kiranosjust read that its new mobile did well in the countries it was released in11:35
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cityoflights2"it was badly done before" - please explain11:37
phdeswercityoflights2: you have never encountered badly written software that does not really do what it is supposed to do before? Those things happen in mobile too...11:38
phdeswerYou can either waste time to fix it, or try again from scratch11:38
cityoflights2I see that jolla did invent a plugin from the cellular audio to the pulse audio11:39
Stskeepsnot really, we built on nokia pulseaudio modules11:39
cityoflights2this match should have ushered the cellular usage better then in the past11:39
Stskeepswhich was open sourced in meego11:39
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cityoflights2stskeeps. I like your presentation11:41
cityoflights2should have gone to youe talk11:42
cityoflights2your11:42
chem|stKiranos: as tizen development (at least for the watch) is so painful I doubt it will start off faster than it took to bring it to the market...11:42
Stskeepsit was not very well attended or made in a good way, but it was very good prediciton11:42
cityoflights2ok, and are we better now?11:45
Stskeepsa bit11:45
cityoflights2now that jolla exist?11:45
Stskeepsnote ubuntu core for debian like stuff11:45
Stskeepsand their entry into iot11:45
cityoflights2what is ubuntu core?11:46
cityoflights2what is iot11:46
cityoflights2IoT11:46
cityoflights2o ok11:46
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chem|stTofe: any results from your .path idea yet?12:11
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chem|stI doubt it works, aliendalvik.service does not get started for a while sometimes so the dealy of .path to trigger the service is sometimes huge, and you'd need to have it start within the 3ms of the end of bindmounting and starting chroot12:13
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Tofechem|st: no, didn't really have time to test it; anyway I doubt it will work fine, as it will either start the service after the current one is finished, or start it in a separate process  (--> incertain result )12:39
Tofeuncertain*12:39
chem|styes, that is what I would guess12:43
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Tofechem|st: one thing I have not yet understood: why not mounting to *both* /data/media and /opt/alien/data/media?12:50
Tofe(after alien.sh has finished his job, of course)12:51
TofeWe certainly could overload aliendalvik.service so that it is not seen as finished as long as our mounts are done12:52
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chem|stTofe: if you mount to opt before the script opts you loose that mount12:53
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Tofechem|st: yes, but after alien.sh has finished, we're good12:54
chem|stnope after alien.sh is finished the folders get fused12:54
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chem|stthere is no way to know when that gap in between is as it is not split into services but one script calling another12:55
Tofeah wait, maybe I just switched alien.sh and start_alien.sh, I wanted to talk about the one doing the whole job12:56
chem|stand as the one script does not exit until the other script is ran through you cannot even know when it will start12:56
TofeI don't want to insert it in-between the scripts, I would like to try to mount to both / and optified pathes after it's opt'ed and fused12:57
chem|stthe fuseing happens somewhere within dalvik as the starter only checks if fuse-control is alive12:58
Tofeah ! ok, that's the piece I didn't understand. f*ck.12:58
chem|stTofe: and that is the problem, you cannot mount to the opt after it is opted as it will already be fused12:58
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chem|stso either you put /data on the uSD completely or you change the bind to rbind12:59
TofeI understand better now13:00
chem|stand as I do not want /data to be on the uSD I alter alien.sh13:00
Tofeyep13:00
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chem|stthere are already people complaining that /data/media is slow on their uSD, imagine we make them have the whole /data on uSD and even starting apps gets slower and slower....13:01
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Tofeyes, I don't want that either, I'd like to find an elegant and non-intrusive solution, like before13:02
chem|styou actually want to have the preset folders of the new /data/media synced to your 1.1.1 android subvolume too13:03
chem|stbut I could not be bothered less^^13:03
Tofe:)13:03
chem|stwe wont have the luck of non intrusive for now, if you want completely non-intrusive you need to wait for dalvik to be started and ten you stop all connected services, data-media.mount(or androidsdcard.service), aliendalvik.path and aliendalvik.service and you be good too13:05
chem|stthere is no 3rd option I know of13:05
chem|stand as I am fine with altering the bind mounts... I go the less annoying way, as it is altering 8 characters in a file instead of a new service file13:06
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juduHi, is there a "Jolla phone shop code for combo perk" sending coming soon ? :D I'm growing impatient :p13:28
Stskeepscontact care perhaps13:29
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Stskeepshttps://blog.jolla.com/jolla-tablet-hardware-adaptation-video-update/13:48
Yanielnice read13:48
locusfcool13:49
SfietKonstantinWthanks Stskeeps13:49
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Stskeepshopefully more amazing videos from mwc13:50
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YanielStskeeps: IMHO you should link that to indiegogo as well if you haven't already13:52
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ShawnMcCoolordered a phone off the store 2 days ago.. no details about when i might get it. take a while?13:54
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Ezkowhat does it say?13:54
Ezkoin the store13:54
Ezkoi ordered mine on a saturday, i think it shipped on wednesday13:54
ShawnMcCoolah cool13:55
politiei ordered on a saturday shipped thursday, delivered wensday13:55
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jaacoppitook me 8 days13:56
politiefedex took the liberty to leave it lying around for 2 days straight13:56
ShawnMcCoolplenty fine by me, i'm just used to being sent more information so i wasn't sure if it was like.. a lenovo process that takes 3 weeks13:56
jaacoppiyeah, having to wait is not nice13:57
ShawnMcCooldoesn't help that i ordered the phone because my nexus is barely hanging on ^_^ but, i'm not complaining, just looking for information. so thanks all13:57
politieexpect a message with tracking code tomorrow or something13:58
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jaacoppiexpect it any day now but don't be sad if it doesn't happen until next week13:59
Ezkomine basically moved from one end of the city i live in to the other13:59
Ezkoso i got it in 1 day :P13:59
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Ezkoi think they handed it to the finnish post from the big dhl facility by the airport and then transported it to my local post office :P14:01
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MorgawrI just got my jolla phone, it's awesome, cheers14:10
Stskeepsexcellent14:11
Stskeepsmake sure to upgrade immediately to latest version and re-run the tutorial14:11
MorgawrYes, I will, thanks14:11
Nicd-yeah, don't do anything before upgrading, except add your jolla account14:11
MorgawrI did that and enabled developer mode, upgrading now14:12
Nicd-though dunno what version of the OS new phones get14:12
Nicd-but it's usually best to upgrade first without doing anything else14:12
MorgawrI really like the whole interface and gestures, the keyboard is also very responsive14:12
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MorgawrYay, updated and the phone is now bricked on reboot loop :P I found how to fix it by telnetting into recovery mode but it'll have to wait until I get home14:39
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tadzikI wonder what drives people who name apps after the technology they're using14:41
StskeepsMorgawr: just factory reset, nothing else, upgrade immediately14:41
tadzikI guess it does matter to some gentoo users, who won't install anything that has a name starting with a K so they don't have to compile kdelibs, but why name sailfish apps qmlSomething?14:42
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cityoflights2stskeeps: was there a video of that fosdem 2012 meeting you sent me the pdf for?14:45
Stskeepsno, the video crew screwed up afaik14:45
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MorgawrStskeeps: I can't find a way to factory reset it without being in the device14:48
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StskeepsMorgawr: telnet should have it14:48
Stskeepsover recovery14:49
MorgawrAh okay, yeah I need to telnet sure14:49
Stskeepsthis was for after that14:49
Morgawrso I'll have to wait until I get home14:49
MorgawrI thought there was some magical key combo to reset it but okay, no big deal14:49
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cityoflights2what is the common way to add music to my jolla?15:23
tadzikI usually copy it over sshfs15:24
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fluxI should be able to lock my phone with double-powerbutton-click if I have a security code configured, right? even if automatic lock is not in use?15:25
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fluxI mean code-lock15:25
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tadziklast time I checked there was a bug that you could not15:26
tadzikI either reported it or upvoted on TJC15:26
fluxI think it _used_ to work for me, but now it doesn't15:26
tadzikoh, here https://together.jolla.com/question/72646/double-click-to-lock-doesnt-work-when-automatic-locking-is-not-in-use/15:26
tadzikplease upvote :)15:26
fluxmaybe I had automatic locking enabled that time15:26
fluxtadzik, I only have one upvote :(15:28
tadzik:(15:29
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tadzikif you comment on it it will be sent back to front page, and maybe someone else will see it :)15:30
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fluxI see, tactics is involved..15:32
tadzikya15:33
tadzikif we knew traffic timelines of TJC we could exploit it further15:33
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tadzikorelse if someone from Jolla looked through all 'bug' tagged questions... ;P15:34
tadzik(hint hint)15:34
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cryorat/part17:01
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trigpointll17:56
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friesehei guys, any of you going to cebit?18:30
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ShawnMcCoolis there a known maximum microsd size for the jolla?18:39
ShawnMcCooli guess i could probably search that18:39
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ShawnMcCool32 ok18:40
friesewell mine works fine with 6418:41
attah^same here18:42
ShawnMcCoolbtrfs?18:42
friesejup18:42
ShawnMcCoolok, thanks for the heads up18:42
ShawnMcCool64 is crazy (awesome)18:42
friesei'm not entirely sure, but i think someone also got 128gb...18:42
friesedon't have a card that big unfortunately18:43
ShawnMcCooldo you primarily use that for a music collection, photos, or anything specific?18:43
attahMusic in FLAC, yes18:43
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friesehumm, sometimes i take a few movies with me, the rest is mostly music, photos and occasional replacement for flashdrives18:44
ShawnMcCoolmovies for watching while being plugged into power, or for transferring to another device?18:45
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friesesometimes even without power (if it's not hd it lasts surprisingly long)18:45
cityoflights2hi, Which app provides video conferencing?18:45
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Morgawrmmm19:07
MorgawrI'm trying to reset my phone from telnet19:07
Morgawrit says that the recovery image is too old and can't be recovered19:07
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MorgawrI've tried looking online but all the links point to a guide from the support website which does not exist :/19:07
Morgawrhttps://jolla.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202208763 This one19:08
StskeepsMorgawr: can you show me the commands the recover offers you?19:08
Morgawrhttps://together.jolla.com/question/22079/howto-all-computer-users-recover-or-reset-a-device-that-is-stuck-in-boot-loop/ It's the same as this page19:09
Morgawrafter I do telnet 10.42.66.6619:09
Morgawr(I'm on linux)19:09
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Stskeepsam i to presume you're not in tampere or helsinki?19:10
Morgawrhttps://jolla.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204709607-How-do-I-use-the-Recovery-Mode- mm... this article says I need an SD card to recover the phone... I don't have one lying around, argh19:10
MorgawrStskeeps: I'm in ireland, no :P19:10
TeemuStskeeps: do you have a beer-operated helpdesk for telnetting into phones?19:11
Morgawrmmm.. I guess I need a microSD card... I wonder if the tesco store close by has them19:12
Morgawrbut yeah, seems like with that I can fix it, nevermind. I'll head to the closest store hoping it's still open and get an SD card and report back ^^19:14
StskeepsMorgawr: going to check your case.. give me a moment19:15
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StskeepsMorgawr: how good are you with linux?19:16
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StskeepsMorgawr: because i think you can pull this off with netcat.19:16
StskeepsMorgawr: i can guide you through this in /msg, should be a safe method19:17
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Yanielcityoflights2: I don't think there is one yet19:24
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MorgawrStskeeps: Heh, I'm pretty good with Linux (I'm an SRE), and I figured I could hack something with netcat or xxd or something like that but I always wanted to have an extra miroSD card for my jolla anyway19:37
Morgawrso yeah... I just got back and found a random store selling an 8GB card anyway :P19:37
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Teemuwhat's sre?19:38
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Yanielsite reliability engineer19:39
Yanielbasically sysadmin19:39
Teemuah okay19:39
Morgawrnot quite sysadmin but yeah :P19:39
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StskeepsMorgawr: ah, ok19:45
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Morgawralright, successfully reset it to factory settings, now to do the re-setup again, it seems to be working :)19:49
Stskeepsupgrade immediately, no developer mode19:52
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Stskeepsmake sure to log in with jolla account in startup wizard19:52
Morgawryeah19:52
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Yanielit's about time we got new recovery images20:02
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MorgawrIf I were a casual user I'd be a bit annoyed by the fact that the phone got bricked by an update and I could't recover :P20:04
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Yanielalso umm20:05
HtheBMorgawr: it happened to me :)20:05
HtheBI dd'ed my phone20:05
Yanielis it possible to have the screen use the full brightness range when automatic brightness adjusting is on?20:05
HtheBit was the ONLY option to make my phone alive again20:06
MorgawrHtheB: Awesome20:06
MorgawrI mean, I'm sorr20:06
Morgawrbut it's awesome that the phone is so open that you can do that :)20:06
MorgawrI'm still amazed I can run a real terminal with a real OS and real programs on my phone20:06
HtheBMorgawr: Jolla isn't the most open phone... I hope you do realize that20:07
Yanielwhat is btw? and let's limit it to actually usable as a phone phones20:08
r0kk3rzubuntu probably20:08
tadzikthe one that *will* come out? :)20:08
r0kk3rzyeah something like that20:09
r0kk3rzfxos is also a candidate20:09
tadzikactually usable as phone, eh? :P20:09
YanielI fail to see how it would be more open given that it works about the same way as sailfish, possibly woth a more open ui20:09
Yanielwith libhybris etc20:09
tadzikwell, I know people that used openmoko20:09
tadzikso there's that20:09
HtheBAndroid is more open....20:10
HtheBsad, but it's true20:10
tadzikas an OS, yes20:10
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M4rtinKI really hate it that I can't really argue with the "Sailfish OS is half closed proprietary shit" people20:10
M4rtinKbecause they are basically right20:10
MorgawrHtheB: Well it's definitely more open than my samsung galaxy :P20:10
tadzikwell, I never said it's shit :)20:10
HtheByeah20:10
HtheBMorgawr: Samsung is always open...20:11
HtheBthey don't lock their bootloaders20:11
r0kk3rzhalf closed? not even 1/8th closed20:11
Teemuactually usable as phone, that someone has already bought and used and you could theoretically buy yourself should you want to?20:11
tbrM4rtinK: in that context, how's your component stuff so we can rewrite message ui and dialer?20:11
Morgawrif you want to run exploits and get root access and jump through hoops and uninstall all their crap that they install on your phone, sure it's very open20:11
M4rtinKand Firefox OS and Ubuntu touch *are* fully open as stuff they develop goes (not counting driver blobs)20:11
Morgawrso far my jolla seems a thousand times more open than whatever other samsung phone I've used20:11
HtheBMorgawr: That is not the true android20:11
MorgawrWell, I said samsung, not android20:11
HtheByou should know the difference between the Branded versions of android and true android20:11
MorgawrI do :)20:12
HtheBok then :p20:12
Yaniel>exploits to get root access20:12
Yanielthere is no part about this that isn't wrong that20:12
Yaniel-that20:12
M4rtinKthat the Firefox OS code especially and even the hacked together Ubuntu Touch code is almost useless is another thing20:12
tadzikwell, that's about android distros20:12
M4rtinKalso the behing closed doors Ubuntu devel20:12
r0kk3rzHtheB: however true android is losing development to proprietary google bits20:12
HtheBI still dont know why Jolla hasn't opened the sailfish launcher20:13
r0kk3rzHtheB: investors is my guess20:13
HtheBr0kk3rz: what exactly do you mean?20:13
HtheB(i meant the development part)20:13
r0kk3rzgoogle is the main developer of AOSP, and they're dropping development on AOSP in favour of their own things20:13
M4rtinKtbr: progressing - I've cut down the last remaining dependencies on modRana (styles) last weekend20:13
r0kk3rzlike chrome, hangouts .etc20:13
HtheBhmm20:14
HtheBwe'll see what the future brings up20:14
HtheBus*20:14
M4rtinKtbr: but have not been able to get a usable Nemo VM running yet20:14
HtheBbyt he way, you sure? investors?20:14
M4rtinKtbr: might try with my N950 this weekend, time permitting20:14
HtheBwhat does that has to do with not opening a launcher?20:14
r0kk3rzwell jolla as a company is surviving on angel investors20:14
tbrM4rtinK: someone had a nemo vm build and put it on images.20:14
M4rtinKtbr: I tried with the Nemo guys last week20:15
HtheBI wish we had more launchers to pick from :)20:15
tbrhttp://images.devaamo.fi/nemo/vm/ ?20:15
M4rtinKtbr: got it running but it was ignoring mouse input20:15
r0kk3rznow, if you were an investor with lots of money, you'd want some kind of assurance that you would get some return on your investment20:15
tbrah20:15
r0kk3rzhaving a fully open source product that someone can fork all your hard work away, doesnt sound like a particularly great investment20:16
r0kk3rzmore philanthropy20:16
M4rtinKr0kk3rz: don't forget GPL20:16
tbrr0kk3rz: depends on your business model20:16
M4rtinKr0kk3rz: also properly forking a distro/OS is not easy at all20:16
M4rtinKr0kk3rz: much cheaper to pay the authors to make the changes/support it for you20:16
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M4rtinKalso trademarks20:17
r0kk3rzwhilst I agree, im sure that *some* investors would be put off by a fully open source everything20:17
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r0kk3rzmaybe not all, but I think thats part of it20:17
HtheBr0kk3rz: android is fully open20:18
M4rtinKany quite some contributors and users are put of by it being not fully open source20:18
HtheBhow did they manage to get it to this stage? :)20:18
M4rtinK*and20:18
HtheBinvestors sounds BS to me20:18
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tbryou can also go down the poison pill route and play the GPLv3 game20:19
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tbrthat's what canonical is doing with Ubuntu Touch20:19
tbras a bonus, they own all relevant code and can relicense it under a commercial license AFAIU20:19
M4rtinKGPLv3 FTW! ;-)20:19
HtheByeah20:20
HtheBso, what is Jolla using?20:20
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tbrproprietary license20:20
Stskeepsi think i'm just going to grab my bottle of bailey's and move backwards slowly from this conversation..20:20
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tbrStskeeps: yup, no way to win, only move is not to play20:21
attahoh.. i was just about to get popcorn :D20:21
r0kk3rzHtheB: BS it may be, because its pure speculation on my part20:21
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* Stskeeps goes to sleep instead20:21
r0kk3rzandroid only went anywhere because google picked it up20:21
HtheB:(20:22
M4rtinKlets just replace all closed Jolla stuff with Nemo and be done with it :)20:22
M4rtinKlof of wasted effort in the closed stuff but whatever :)20:22
tbr:)20:22
HtheBM4rtinK: there was a different launcher right?20:23
HtheBbut, afaik, it's still experimental20:23
M4rtinK(working on a "normal" Linux distro really makes one considering anything other than a fully open flawed)20:23
M4rtinKHtheB: some sort of a Nemo launcher, yes20:24
HtheByeah20:24
r0kk3rzi was thinking I could probably help do some UI work for Nemo20:24
HtheBhey what happened to Glacier?20:24
tbrr0kk3rz: do iiiiit!20:24
HtheBcome to think of it20:24
HtheBit looked VERY great, but somehow, I never saw it alive20:24
r0kk3rztbr: kinda hard to know where to start20:24
M4rtinKIIRc is should be more or less done ?20:25
M4rtinKr0kk3rz: #nemomobile :)20:25
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attahBTW.. i have the same issue with TJC visibility over and over again.. i wish there was a "seen by sailors and went to the bottom of the pile" just so i can move on20:26
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attahspecifically https://together.jolla.com/question/71883/percent-encoded-tel-links-broken-becomes-2/ this time20:26
attahit's *one* line, and i feel bad for bumping20:27
M4rtinKHtheB: I talked to qwazix on FOSDEM and he told me Glacier should be more or less be ready for use20:27
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HtheBhe was at FOSDEM?20:27
HtheBhmm20:27
HtheBI really wish there was a Jolla stand at FOSDEM :/20:27
Cal-Dronemeow20:28
M4rtinKalso there are some issues with the staled Mer & Nemo midleware merge20:28
M4rtinKyep20:28
M4rtinKfrom how I understand it until the merge is complete20:28
M4rtinKthe Nemo project is also kinda stalled at least partially20:28
HtheBmeow20:28
M4rtinKand only Jolla can complete it20:29
M4rtinKbut it is taking longer than expected for some reason20:29
HtheBguys, I want to buy some screenprotectors for the Jolla20:29
HtheBI found 2 different brands, dont know if that matters though20:29
HtheBbut, any idea which one looks better?20:29
HtheBEZguardz  or Spartan Shieldz?20:29
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r0kk3rzive used 3m vikuiti ones20:29
attahunpopular opinion: screen protectors are snake oil20:30
Cal-Droneass, tits, meow20:30
r0kk3rzlooked good, did the job20:30
HtheBhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/6X-EZguardz-NEW-Screen-Protector-Skin-Shield-HD-6X-For-Jolla-Jolla-Ultra-Clear-/33121118172820:30
HtheBhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/6X-Spartan-Shields-Premium-HD-Screen-Protector-Skin-Cover-For-Jolla-Jolla-6X-/33121118859820:30
r0kk3rztbh i dont really like the feel of screen protectors, its easier to keep glass not feeling oily all the time20:31
Cal-Dronewhy do you even want those?20:31
kimmolihttp://protectionfilms24.com/article/3x-vikuiti-screen-protector-dqct130-jolla-jolla-1509825.html20:31
kimmolii'm happy with these20:31
r0kk3rzyeah thats what i got kimmoli20:32
HtheB Easily removable << is that good???20:33
HtheB:D20:33
kimmolishould test ARMR220 next time, when summer and sun comes20:33
kimmolimy has been on for 7 months without problems20:33
HtheBok, I'm going to try out those EZGuardz20:34
HtheB6 protectors for 3$20:34
r0kk3rzi dont understand why people get the cheapest screen protectors they can find20:35
HtheBr0kk3rz: why pay more?20:36
r0kk3rzwhy do you assume that you're getting the same product for less?20:36
r0kk3rzand not a lesser product for less20:36
HtheBas long as it protects from scratches, i'm fine with it20:36
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r0kk3rzoptical properties are also important, ive seen some ugly ugly screen protectors20:37
HtheBand expensive doesnt mean better20:37
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r0kk3rzand ease of application, seen too many phones with lots of bubbles20:38
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HtheBi remember those very expensive V Shields20:38
HtheBOrange peel effect :/20:38
HtheBr0kk3rz: that means they can't place a screenprotector on :P20:38
HtheBI placed a lot of screenprotectors on phones and tablets (when I worked at Vodafone)20:38
r0kk3rzthose 3m ones are quite thick, and really easy to put on20:39
r0kk3rzthe only way you can muck it up is by having things dirty, or being a complete retard20:39
kimmolioneplusone protector had nice alignment stickers with it20:39
HtheBr0kk3rz: ill tell you once the protectors arrived20:40
kimmolii hate my brother on this case, he just sticks the damn thing on the display. and then it is misaligned, full of big bubbles etc20:40
r0kk3rzi dont really care, ive given up with screen protectors20:40
HtheBi will even make a video if you like :P20:41
HtheBHow I put on the screenprotector on Jolla xD20:41
Teemukimmoli: i bet he didn't put the plastic cover on his schoolbooks by himself20:42
kimmoliiirc there was no cover on his books. he had 5 plastic-bags, one for each school-day20:42
HtheBTeemu: aarrgh, placing paper covers on schoolbooks.... brings back (bad) memories :D20:42
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kimmolidid that few months ago20:43
TeemuHtheB: we used self-gluing transparent plastic20:44
Teemumy mom used paper20:44
Teemufor hers i mean20:44
HtheBaha20:45
Teemufirst few years she did mine and then i started applying it on my own20:45
r0kk3rzcut up game magazines and clear plastic20:45
Teemuthe screen protectors are a lot easier to put on bubbleless20:45
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r0kk3rzfor sure, less surface area too20:45
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Teemuthe surface is also smoother and straighter and the film thicker20:46
HtheBthe "screen protector" that the phone came didnt last long now :(20:48
HtheBi will give you guys a review on the "cheap" screen protectors :P20:49
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Teguit will last longer if you cut the small part from which the cover is supposed to be taken off20:55
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MorgawrIs it possible/viable to change the default username from 'nemo' to something else without breaking everything?21:10
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Morgawrnot a big deal in any case, just wondering21:10
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Stskeepsnot really possible21:10
MorgawrAlright, fair enough21:10
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HtheBTegu: no shit sherlock? :p21:12
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Stskeepsmeanwhile, http://crypto.stanford.edu/gyrophone/files/gyromic.pdf is my scary goodnight reading21:14
StskeepsGyrophone: Recognizing Speech From Gyroscope Signals21:14
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HtheBgood night ^^ :D21:16
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r0kk3rzStskeeps: i dont see how thats a major gain though21:35
r0kk3rzif you have access to the device, you have access to the mic21:35
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Morgawrdoes anybody know how I can change an ambience text color? I created an ambience with a picture and it works fine but I can't find a way to change the text color21:53
ikarusMorgawr: it's derived from the picture21:54
Morgawrikarus: there a way to influence it?21:54
ikarusMorgawr: change the pixels it samples for it ? :)21:54
ottulonenMorgawr: it's coming in the update as far as I've understood, otherwise you can follow this: https://together.jolla.com/question/11783/how-to-fine-tune-ambiences-colors-used/?answer=12168#post-id-1216821:55
ikarusthere is some logic to it I remember21:55
Morgawrottulonen: I don't have gconftool-2 on my phone, do I have to install something?21:55
Morgawrikarus: Which ones? Do you have a reference I can look at?21:55
ottulonensorry, that link wasn't quite enough, the link in that post is21:55
ottulonenMorgawr: not as far as I can remember21:57
ottulonenlet me check if it still works just like that21:57
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Morgawrmmm.. weird, I uploaded a picture to my Pictures directory and now the gallery app says "oops cannot display thumbnail", it does it with every .jpg or .png I put in the folder it seems22:06
ottulonendid you try clearing the tracker database?22:07
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ottulonenin Settings>System>Utilities22:08
Morgawralright that seems to have fixed it, thanks22:09
r0kk3rzone of these days, tracker will actually keep track of things22:09
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MorgawrStill no luck with the font colors :(22:13
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ottulonenMorgawr: yeah, seems like gconftool indeed is not used anymore - I'm browsing through the file system to locate the settings files :D22:18
r0kk3rzMorgawr: i would suggest waiting for the next update, which should be released proper soon22:18
ottulonenI found the default/TOH ambience files already, but not custom22:18
r0kk3rzthen theres a menu for ambiance colours22:18
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Morgawrr0kk3rz: I'm just playing around anyway, it's not a big deal but I'm stil interested into getting it to work :P22:22
MorgawrI'm looking forward to the update anyway22:22
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r0kk3rzits possible22:23
r0kk3rztheres a file somewhere with a hex encoded colour22:23
r0kk3rzi ended up just choosing an image with a decent derived colour22:24
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MorgawrIf only I could figure out how to make it derive a different color. I read a post saying you need 4 vertical pixels but I don't understand where or how...22:25
Morgawrhttp://reviewjolla.blogspot.ie/2014/02/howto-jolla-phone-ambience-text-color.html22:25
MorgawrAnd since I don't use windows nor PaintShopPro it's rather confusing22:26
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ottulonenyou can of course edit the image with whatever program you like, just make sure it's in the correct spot (I imagine that's why they said to use PSP - it is automatically in the middle)22:28
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Morgawrottulonen: Yeah, I need to figure out where the spot is, though.22:29
ottulonenhttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/-r0nhr9hIjug/UwNbrLpTNxI/AAAAAAAACME/Mz2cBkBf0n0/s1600/Jolla+Energy+Saver+The+First+One+by+Review+Jolla.jpg22:29
ottulonenzoom in around the middle, there's a spot22:29
MorgawrOh22:29
MorgawrI missed it, it was too small22:29
MorgawrI thought it'd be in the corner22:29
Morgawrthanks!22:29
ottulonenyup, one pixel only22:29
ottulonenyw22:30
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MorgawrDoesn't seem to have worked22:34
MorgawrYeah even using the example picture I always get "orange" color22:35
Morgawrmust be somewhere else in the system22:37
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MorgawrHA! I did it22:47
MorgawrI went into /usr/share/ambience and copied over the snowhite ambience directory22:47
Morgawrgave it a different name22:47
Morgawrmoved my picture22:47
Morgawrand modified the settings and stuff22:48
Morgawrnow I got my own ambience :D22:48
Morgawralso had to restart ambienced but that's ok22:48
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pdanekHello citizens,23:13
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pdanekIs there a chance of Jolla 2 being announced on MWC?23:13
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HtheBpdanek: no, it's just the tablet23:20
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pdanekHtheB: :(23:22
HtheBpdanek: :( :(23:22
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