#jollamobile log for Saturday, 2015-03-07

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louisdkSo Jolla just won an MWC award for their tablet. Just wondering what Nokia or Steven Elop might think.00:08
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keithzglouisdk: Elop would probably just say "sorry, what? I couldn't hear you over the sound of all my money."00:38
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louisdkkeithzg, probably, but he didn't succed in killing MeeGo.00:42
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keithzglouisdk: Ehhh, he didn't really care about killing MeeGo, he (and the board) just wanted to sell Nokia. MeeGo was a complication in that respect, and so got hobbled, but I doubt he has any sort of personal antipathy towards MeeGo.00:45
keithzgAdmittedly, ex-Nokians succeeding in the mobile space does make his strategy for Nokia look bad, so I guess he might get upset with that.00:45
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louisdkBut luckly MeeGo development continue in the hands of Jolla.00:48
keithzgYup, although it's a bit more MeeGo-y than I hoped, I really have never gotten along with RPM ;)00:51
louisdkkeithzg, not an RPM niether, but it has got a lot better since I started using Linux decade ago. But I guess Jolla see no point in changing the Mer core.00:54
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keithzglouisdk: Yeah, I've yet to end up in RPM hell in SailfishOS, it just makes me a bit annoyed with Intel forcing things over to jive with how Moblin was being done, and then abandoning it all anyways!00:56
louisdkjive?00:57
louisdkkeithzg, do you mean this company https://www.jivesoftware.com/ or was it a type mistake?00:59
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keithzglouisdk: no, "jive with" as in "go along with"01:04
keithzgAn appropriation of "jibe", I think.01:05
keithzgSlang upon slang, heh.01:05
louisdkkeithzg, oh okay. I see the new SailfishOS 2.0 UI as being more N9-like, not in a bad bad way. I think it'll be easier for odinary people to adopt.01:07
keithzglouisdk: Ah, that's an entirely different story (I was just talking about how Moblin was RPM-based). Generally speaking for me the more N9-like the better, although one of those things would be to be DEB-based ;) but that ship has long since sailed.01:10
keithzgAs long as I can still swipe down to close an app I'm good with the changes, heh.01:10
henkDoes anyone know if Quikwriting (as in http://nongnu.org/qwo/ and http://mrl.nyu.edu/projects/quikwriting/) is implemented for jolla?01:12
louisdkkeithzg, yearh let's see. SailfishOS 2.0 is still to be released.01:12
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Vegeshite_mitelocusf, hey02:35
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uuhimhereso did symbian os ever get forked when it was open sourced ?04:28
Cal-Drone:o04:30
uuhimhere:o04:33
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coderussymbian was opensourced? :O05:03
coderuswhen? who? how? where?05:07
uuhimherehttp://www.zdnet.com/article/symbian-fully-open-sourced-ahead-of-schedule/#!05:07
uuhimhereaccording to that05:07
coderuswhere the source codes?05:08
uuhimherethats what im wondering05:09
coderusthere was some pdkv1 and pdkv3, and then symbian was sold to Accenture and sources gone05:09
uuhimhereif anybody forked it05:09
uuhimherebefore it was closed again05:09
coderussymbian is not opensource :)05:09
uuhimherewell not anymore05:09
uuhimherei said was05:09
uuhimherefor a while... alot like open office05:09
uuhimherefrom what i understand05:09
coderushttp://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=372360605:10
coderuslike this05:10
coderusyou can find it yourself05:10
coderusand thepiratebay ofc: https://thepiratebay.se/torrent/6313931/Symbian_PDK__Symbian_source_code__documentation05:11
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coderusi have used it for a while for s^3 mods :)05:12
trt`я не понимаю05:12
uuhimheredoes that mean that its illegal because it isnt an actual fork of the project and mere distribution of now-closed source?05:12
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trt`Does anyone even have legal rights over symbian anyway? Nokia stopped support a year ago..05:13
coderusuuhimhere: this is sources of first release of S^3 platform05:13
coderustrt`: Accenture have05:13
coderusuuhimhere: no idea about legal05:14
trt`oh yeah, I see05:15
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trt`coderus,  are you in Germany.05:23
trt`?05:23
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coderusno05:33
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uuhimhereso are germans vikings?05:34
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uuhimhere*were05:34
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coderuswhy?05:35
Teemuno05:35
Teemudanes were05:35
Teemuthen later on parts of danmark decided to be sweden and norway05:36
trt`where you at then, coderus?05:38
coderusrussia05:38
trt`do you have a german bnc05:38
trt`why do you have a .de host?05:39
trt`Anyway, Russia, How is there? I mean people.. what kinds of phones do they mostly use?05:39
trt`Does anyone.. ultimately want to have an iPhone?05:40
coderustrt`: me have de host? :O05:40
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trt`..and those who don't have the iPhones, have cheap Androids?05:40
trt`~coderus@static.88-198-208-108.clients.your-server.de05:41
coderustrt`: we have iphones and windowsphones, and just a little amount of iphones05:41
uuhimherewhats the point of having an expensive android... if its still android?05:41
coderustrt`: lol, it's freenode irc comains, not me05:41
coderusdomains*05:41
trt`i see05:41
trt`ok05:41
coderusah, we also haveyotaphones, but nobody have seen it :D05:42
coderushave yotaphones*05:42
trt`:)05:42
coderusi didn't even saw it in retails shops05:42
trt`yota phones are too expensive05:42
coderusit present in very rare shops :D05:42
coderusbut it have second ink screen! :D05:42
trt`Where in russia are you at? Moscow?05:42
coderusno05:43
trt`Still in European part?05:43
coderusno05:43
coderusi need to go05:45
trt`uuhimhere, it makes sense having an expensive Android phone to me... After all I have one ;)05:45
trt`Take care coderus !05:45
trt`Keep Russia iPhone free ;)05:45
coderusi think we have some law against iphone in russia, but don't know if it working at all :D05:46
trt`reverse sanction ;)05:46
trt`I know the mobile operators in Russia don't sell it05:47
uuhimheretrt`, yeah having an expensive android phone is like having an expensive made in china car05:47
trt`Megaphone said they don't like Apple trying to monopolize and all... Apple want to charge mobile operators for selling iPhone05:47
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trt`No, Android phones need fast processors, lots of RAM. That's why buying a cheap one is not a really good deal... especially if the Android is all forked..05:50
uuhimhereyeah the reason they need all that power is because of java05:51
Teemugarbage collection works just fine if you have at least half of the ram free05:52
Teemubelow that it starts to have serious performance drawbacks05:52
uuhimhereno matter how much youre paying... in the end the horsepower just goes to make up for the inefficiency of the transmission05:52
trt`Now tho, I think it's getting better with Lollipop, 64bit devices, Android One program.. competitive Chinese OEM pushing devices with flagship specs at crazy low prices05:53
trt`how can you keep half of the RAM free?05:54
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uuhimhereunplug it XD05:54
Teemuyou'd have to take that into account in the UI and scheduler and the program-killing-daemon05:54
Teemunow that they don't, everybody will run into less than half of ram free and will have slowness05:55
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trt`Teemu,  how is Sailfish running so smooth?05:59
uuhimhereit uses magic05:59
trt`:)05:59
uuhimhereEtherPowered(R)06:00
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trt`yeah ok06:01
Teemukauko nieminen was summoned to ruoholahti and helped coax the ether vortexes into synchronous operation06:01
uuhimhereno06:02
uuhimherethe retro encabulator was used to multiples the sub phase generator into a more efficient sequential state machine06:03
Teemuah oh i see, those can be constructed out of rom so the cpu is free to do more important tasks06:04
uuhimheretrt`, it uses retroencabulation technology : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXJKdh1KZ0w06:04
uuhimheresomething like that06:04
trt`:)06:05
Teemubefore mcus were common, finite state machines were often used for control tasks, requiring just an eprom chip and a clock06:06
Teemuif you ever wondered why some end of 70s thing seemingly has no cpu it is because it hasn't06:06
trt`alright guys06:06
trt`Bye06:07
lpotterit's powered by gnome eating trolls06:07
uuhimheregnomes dont eat trolls06:08
uuhimheretrolls eat trolls06:08
Teemutrolls eat anything06:08
uuhimhereyoure a troll06:08
Teemudon't feed the troll06:08
kimmolithat escalated quickly06:09
uuhimhereTeemu, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oavMtUWDBTM&spfreload=1006:10
Teemu<306:10
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KING_OF_KONGTeemu, did you eat mr trol06:18
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KING_OF_KONGTeemu, well RIP alas you met a troll with a bigger apetite06:29
KING_OF_KONGwhos a bigger troll king kong or godzilla?06:29
Teemurick ashtley06:30
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KING_OF_KONGrick who?06:31
KING_OF_KONGis she that wardrobe malfunction chick06:31
Teemunope :)06:32
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KING_OF_KONGTeemu, is she your maternal parent07:06
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japa-fiI got message "sailfish od could not be updated, try again later". Any suggestions what went wrong? Too little available space? Problem with downloaded data integrity, other?08:26
tbrdo you have third party packages installed or repositories enabled?08:28
japa-fiwarehouse08:29
japa-fiand stuff from warehouse08:29
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japa-fishould warehouse be disabled?08:32
* tbr slowly backs away, good luck08:33
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tango_lol08:40
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japa-firetried the update, phone claimed to download something, though im not sure if it did other than verified the files (my network dataflow monitor didn't show much activity). Now it started updating. hope I don't get bricked08:42
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japa-fiupdate done, phone still alive. :)09:05
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japa-fibattery went from 99% to 50%09:06
Vegeshite_Mitethats because you dont have blast processing09:06
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tadzikjapa-fi: what kind of network dataflow monitor are you using?09:07
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coderustbr: it would be better if ssu log what king of error happened exactly on "sailfish od could not be updated, try again later".09:08
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japa-fitadzik, from my router...09:11
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tadzikah, alright09:25
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Stskeepsmoo Venemo09:28
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Venemomoo Stskeeps, what's up? :)09:36
Stskeepsback from mwc, exhausted09:36
Morpog_PCStskeeps, that demo from sledges on Nexus 5, was that SFOS 2.0 or a new version of stella launcher with sfos 2.0 style?09:38
StskeepsMorpog_PC: 2.009:38
coderusMorpog_PC: https://twitter.com/vgrade/status/57337560564069580809:39
Morpog_PCinteresting, so the camera app got reworked too09:39
Teemuvideo url?09:39
Stskeepsreally?09:39
Morpog_PCat least the effect looked different when changing to gallery09:39
coderustbr: i have only N5 video url: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQtd_PqNR2E09:41
Morpog_PCyeah that was the video09:42
Morpog_PCI can't wait for it, it's alot like harmattan :D09:44
Stskeepsmaybe different camera app?09:44
VenemoStskeeps: how was the MWC?09:45
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Morpog_PCnow after watching again it looks the same as in Jolla phone, maybe i was confused when I watched it earlier09:45
StskeepsVenemo: tiring, but very good feedback09:46
Morpog_PCit seems people understand the 2.0 UI better09:46
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Stskeepsquite better yeah09:47
tbrlet's just hope that brings in at least one customer who licenses sailfish09:47
tbrotherwise I don't see Jolla making it into 201609:48
Stskeepstbr: yeah, that was feedback on a number of sites09:48
Stskeepsas a single-vendor isn't sustainable09:48
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VenemoI'm just curious about how the new UI is gonna be presented on the phone09:50
tbrwho knows maybe finally the 200M sailfish alliance member investments happen and we will have a whole zoo of phones in a year09:50
Teemunow that elevator discojax sound logo was horrible09:50
StskeepsVenemo: similarly to tablet09:50
Morpog_PCVenemo, there are already videos of SFOS 2.0 on the phone09:50
Stskeepssame codeline09:50
Teemuotherwise that video was nice09:50
VenemoMorpog_PC: link pls :)09:51
tbrcoderus: ?09:51
Morpog_PCVenemo, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2-w5jIxySM&t=18&hd=109:52
Vegeshite_Mitetbr, hey if locusf 's project gets off the ground who knows maybe raspberry foundation might license it?09:56
Vegeshite_MiteXD09:56
locusfheheh :)09:56
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Stskeepsi got myself one of those google cardboard thingies at mwc09:57
Morpog_PCSailfishVR? :D09:58
MikaelaVR as in trains in Finland?09:59
Venemohm09:59
Venemoso basically, SF OS 2.0 will return to the same basic idea that was in harmattan?09:59
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Morpog_PCalmost10:00
Morpog_PCapp drawer is separated10:01
frieseyeah sailfish 2 sure looks nice. i'm a bit worried about the missing app-close gestures, i don't think the alternative system is quite that handy to use (i'm often having problems hitting those tiny close-buttons)10:03
Morpog_PCI guess they will work on an alternative10:03
tbrlet's hope it will be still in there and one can activate it either deep in settings or by poking a file10:04
Vegeshite_Mitelocusf, so hows the sailpi10:06
locusfVegeshite_Mite: trying to get qtwayland on it10:06
Vegeshite_Mitelocusf, i was thinking if/when rbpi foundation releases a bcm2836 compute module it could actually fit into a slim case10:07
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Vegeshite_MiteStskeeps, what was wrong with the old UI10:09
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Stskeepsok, cardboard is kinda neat10:16
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r0kk3rzStskeeps: google cardboard?11:15
r0kk3rzgonna make jollatab cardboard?11:15
r0kk3rzprobably be a bit heavy... but would look hilarious11:16
r0kk3rzcould always try and balance the weight like they did with the sony thing11:16
Stskeepsr0kk3rz: http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/16/6256729/airvr-attach-your-ipad-directly-to-your-face11:18
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sharpneliAnd then proceed to puke11:19
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r0kk3rziBorg11:19
r0kk3rzlooks like a plot from a dr who episode11:19
sharpneliI have a strong hunch that this current gen VR stuff will cause yet another 20 year slump on them11:20
r0kk3rzmaybe11:21
r0kk3rzor the tech is now good enough for it to work11:21
r0kk3rzrather than being really expensive, heavy, and not that good11:21
r0kk3rzlike is was 10 years ago11:21
sharpneliThe issue is with latency11:22
sharpneliYou need sub 10ms latency for the head tracking or people will start to puke11:22
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sharpneliAnd the modern gfx pipeline is more like 3 frames latency which means almost 50ms already.11:23
r0kk3rzthats assuming a full reactive pipeline11:23
sharpneliYap.11:23
r0kk3rzrather than a pre-emptive pipeline11:23
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r0kk3rzhow well that can work is another question, but carmacks on the case11:24
sharpneliSure. I'm not saying it's impossible11:24
r0kk3rzif anyone can figure it out, its him11:24
sharpneliBut it's not gonna work by some people putting iPad on your face11:25
sharpneliBecause that particular HW was not designed with latency in mind. And it's understandable.11:25
r0kk3rzwell no, would be better to try the gearVR stuff11:26
r0kk3rzsince that has buy in from samsung11:26
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r0kk3rzor the hacked note display on the rift11:27
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ikarusr0kk3rz: Carmack is very much on the "let's go back to basics to get performance up high enough for VR"11:29
Vegeshite_Miteso how is neo900 going on11:29
Vegeshite_Miteanybody knows11:29
ikarusVegeshite_Mite: from what my sources tell me, they are plodding along11:29
ikaruswhich reminds me, I still want to try porting Maemo to Jolla ;)11:30
r0kk3rzikarus: the very blunt presentation he gave on it was quite good11:30
ikarusstupid me actually prefers it11:30
ikarusr0kk3rz: yup11:30
Vegeshite_Mitewhy not port jolla to n90011:30
freemangordonhi guys, does jolla phone support uploading photos/videos to facebook and if yes, is that functionality FOSS?11:30
ikarusVegeshite_Mite: because I like the way Maemo worked ?11:30
r0kk3rzmaemo is the more mature/complete operating system11:30
ikarusVegeshite_Mite: for me a desktop with widgets (arranged for work, home, hobby) was a good thing, as was the always in view status bar11:31
ikarusOfcourse Android, even though it has that, is otherwise so utterly idiotic, that it's barely usable on a tablet, let alone a phone11:33
freemangordonhmm, I guess I answered the question by myself https://github.com/nemomobile/buteo-sync-plugins-social11:33
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Vegeshite_Miteikarus, yeah but jolla is the spiritual successor to maemo11:33
ikarusVegeshite_Mite: sure, but that doesn't mean that all the changes are improvements for me11:34
Vegeshite_Miteikarus, maybe if more n900 users started using sailfish it might become just as mature11:34
ikarusthe covers, nice idea, but I can't on boot up load a bunch of covers and make sure they stick around11:34
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r0kk3rzi dont think its a user problem, its a resources problem11:35
ikaruslet alone change the set of visible covers with a flick of my thumb11:35
r0kk3rzim sure nokia put a lot more into maemo than jolla has available11:35
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Vegeshite_Miteso who owns maemo now11:35
Vegeshite_Miteis it still closed?11:35
Vegeshite_Mitesource11:35
freemangordonVegeshite_Mite: microsoft11:35
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Vegeshite_Mitei heard nokias moving away from msoft now11:36
freemangordonthe source code of the closed parts that is11:36
r0kk3rzfreemangordon: really?11:36
r0kk3rzthen maemo really is a dead end...11:36
tbras if that wasn't clear 3 years ago already11:36
Vegeshite_Mitemaybe jolla could cajole nokia into adapting sailfish11:37
freemangordonr0kk3rz: well, M$ bought Nokia mobile division...11:37
Vegeshite_Miteummm i thought they only licensed it11:37
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r0kk3rzyeah they did, wasnt sure maemo was part of that11:37
r0kk3rzbut i suppose it makes sense11:37
freemangordontbr: :nod:. though I really hope Neo900 to attract more developers11:37
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ikarusfreemangordon: the Neo900 is so underwhelming specswise....11:38
tbrfreemangordon: given that there still is no hardware and it was pretty much ridiculous on the onset. I'll stick to calling it the necro900.11:38
r0kk3rzyeah i wonder if the neo900 is a bit too late to be relevant11:39
ikarusI'll be happy when Dirk starts shipping the keyboards, that is my biggest issue with the Jolla solved11:39
Vegeshite_Mitefreemangordon, why would it its just an upgraded n90011:39
freemangordonikarus: if you want to run Android on it, yes. Fremantle is a different kind of beer11:39
Vegeshite_Mitefreemangordon, and not by a longshot11:39
Vegeshite_Mitefreemangordon, a little upgrade11:39
ikarusfreemangordon: even for other uses, it's not a huge leap forward11:39
Vegeshite_Mitefreemangordon, http://techcrunch.com/2013/09/03/nokias-licensing-its-name-to-microsoft-but-its-free-to-keep-building-hardware-and-could-even-dial-up-to-mobile-devices-again-by-january-2016/11:40
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freemangordonVegeshite_Mite: so? you think they'll revive maemo?11:40
r0kk3rzwell their tab is running android11:40
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Vegeshite_Mitefreemangordon, no just think that they could come up with a fork that could run jolla11:41
Morpog_PC__they can't do phones before 201611:41
freemangordontbr: you might be right, but I still keep the hopes, even not high :)11:41
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freemangordonas this is the only device so far I can think of as N900 replacement11:42
r0kk3rzblackberry is bringing out a slider11:43
r0kk3rzportrait slider, but almost11:43
Vegeshite_Miteabout friggin time11:43
Vegeshite_Mitesick of this touchsreen qwert11:43
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Vegeshite_Mitefreemangordon, id like to see a proper successor to the n950 w/ sailfish11:43
Vegeshite_Mitebut then again it all has to make business sense11:44
freemangordonr0kk3rz: it is not only about the kbd, there is way more both HW and SW wise before I assume a device is on par or better than N90011:44
Vegeshite_Mitemaybe the jolla folk here who were part of nokia could comment on the possibility of teaming up with nokia(or lack thereof)11:44
r0kk3rzyes i know, the n900 is the most amazing thing ever, everything else just pales in comparison11:44
Vegeshite_Miter0kk3rz, as far as aesthetics is concerned it PALES in comparison to the 95011:45
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freemangordonVegeshite_Mite: sore, N950 looks like jewelry. And behaves like a brick :)11:45
freemangordon*sure11:45
Vegeshite_Mitefreemangordon, well thats why it would be nice to have a proper successor to it11:46
Vegeshite_Miteand one that runs sailfish? XD11:46
freemangordonsailfish? I'd stick to fremantle.11:47
r0kk3rzpoint is nokia didnt throw its full weight behind it, and now the world has moved on from that style of device11:47
r0kk3rzmaybe for the worse11:47
r0kk3rzbut most people expect an iphone-alike11:47
freemangordonmaybe? I;d say definitely11:47
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freemangordonthough I still wonder why noone wants to fill that segment, for NIT-like devices11:48
r0kk3rzbecause people are cheap11:48
Vegeshite_Mitewheres the blackberry slideout11:48
Vegeshite_Mitewhats it called11:48
freemangordonok, but not 100% of the people11:48
freemangordonand even if it is 1%, this is still a market11:49
r0kk3rzso you can only make money by selling a zillion of them, which means mass market11:49
r0kk3rzunless you're apple, and have a large cult following11:49
Vegeshite_Mitewhat you gotta do is build a following11:49
Vegeshite_Mitelike what apple has11:49
r0kk3rzim not sure the n900 cult following is big enough11:49
Vegeshite_Mitei think thats what jolla's trying to do11:49
freemangordonr0kk3rz: and who's to blame? did N900 ever received any push from Nokia?11:49
freemangordonand why cult?11:50
r0kk3rzfanatical believers11:50
freemangordonI wouldn;t name it like that, I am not fanatic neither believer, it is just that the device fits (most of) what I need from my mobile.11:51
freemangordonand there is noting on the market that comes closer to it11:51
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Vegeshite_Mitefreemangordon, in terms of customizability maemo has it hands down11:52
Vegeshite_Mitenot even android11:52
Vegeshite_Miteits basically a portable linux pc11:52
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freemangordonVegeshite_Mite: and what about how everything is integrated and intuitive?11:52
freemangordondoes android comes close?11:53
r0kk3rzfanatical believers never say they're fanatical believers11:53
freemangordonr0kk3rz: :)11:53
r0kk3rzim not sure ive heard anyone say they've bought an iphone because they were brainwashed into it11:53
r0kk3rzthey've usually rationalised it in some way11:53
freemangordonr0kk3rz: ok, recommend me a device as a replacement of N900.11:54
r0kk3rzthere isnt one11:54
Vegeshite_Mitethe only thing i can think of that comes close is the open pandora11:54
freemangordonwould you say the same for the iphone or any other device?11:54
Vegeshite_Mitebut the problem with the n900 is this nobody's developing for it anymore11:54
freemangordonVegeshite_Mite: does it have modem?11:54
freemangordonVegeshite_Mite: that is not true11:55
Vegeshite_Mitewhat browser choices you have on it?11:55
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r0kk3rzsure there would be some people willing to buy a new n900 at 1000E a piece11:55
r0kk3rzbut probably not enough11:55
freemangordonVegeshite_Mite: not much (stock, opera, FF)11:56
freemangordonoh, and a couple of webkit based11:56
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Vegeshite_Miteand whats the most recently released browser11:56
Vegeshite_Mitedate wise11:56
freemangordonmaybe opera 1211:56
Vegeshite_Mitewhen?11:56
freemangordon2 years ago iirc11:57
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freemangordonVegeshite_Mite: see, the problem with the browsers it the HW11:57
freemangordon256 MB of RAM is simply not enough for any newer engine11:58
Vegeshite_Mitecould also be libraries11:58
Vegeshite_Mitelibc etc11:58
freemangordonand trust me, I know what i am talking about, it was gecko 24 (iirc) the last one I was running on n900. about an year os so ago11:58
freemangordonno, libs are ok, CSSU keeps the stuff more or less up to date, when needed11:59
freemangordonVegeshite_Mite: also, you may want to check the upstream kernel ;)11:59
freemangordonVegeshite_Mite: http://elinux.org/N900/Changelog12:00
Vegeshite_Mitei believe that indicator of whether or not a smart phone is still mainstream or not is if its still getting new ports for mainstream apps(browsers email clients etc)12:00
freemangordonI don;t think n900 was ever an "upstream device"12:01
freemangordonor "mainstream device"12:01
Vegeshite_Miteit was for a while12:01
freemangordondon;t think so, but anyway12:01
freemangordonN9, yes. but not n90012:02
Vegeshite_Mitebut the point is whats the point of having a swiss army knife of a phone if you cant access the newwebsites using html 5000 to check your bank account?12:02
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freemangordonVegeshite_Mite: see, I understand what you mean. It is that I simply prefer to live with those shortcomings instead of getting the next shiny shiny Sn12:03
freemangordonwhich will be obsoleted in 6 months anyway12:03
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Vegeshite_Miteso any jolla people here can comment on any future collab with nokia?12:39
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ikarusVegeshite_Mite: absolutely no chance even if they did know about it12:45
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TMavicafreemangordon: interested in Jolla?13:50
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freemangordonTMavica: not really, unless they make a device that fits my needs. which I doubt they'll do :)13:51
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TMavicaNon of the device fit for u except n900. Lol13:53
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frieseso freemangordon is going for n900-alternatives? why not the neo900 then? ;)14:02
freemangordonfriese: why do you think not?14:03
freemangordonI donated to the project more than an year ago ;)14:03
frieseah okay14:04
friesetbh i didn't really get into the meego/maemo-game until the n9 and i haven't really followed that neo900 project, just heard about it some time ago14:04
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Venemofriese: you missed out on the golden age then14:12
friesein the golden age i was still rocking my good old palm treo :) had an internet tablet 700 way back but i was always bothered by the fact i needed an additional phone14:13
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frieseuuh, i still have the tablet in my drawer of old gadgets... was an nokia 770 though. i wonder if it still work's...14:15
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Venemo:)14:36
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uuhimherehows everyones doing14:45
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uuhimherelocusf: so are you going to github ur source?14:51
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chem|stfriese: in that combination... I'd have a dumbphone able to get me internet on an internet tablet if there still be internet tablets... (mean currently new further developed ons, got an n900 on my desk though)15:00
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locusfuuhimhere: its all in obs now, will post custom qtwayland sources otherwise15:21
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uuhimherecan u post the source to sailfish?15:29
tbrsailfish is not opensource15:30
uuhimherethats what i thoight15:32
uuhimherewill it ever be?15:32
Cal-Drone...15:33
uuhimherejolla would be out of a business if it was?15:33
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uuhimhere*business model15:39
Nicd-they have said it might some day be15:39
uuhimhere...15:40
Nicd-a lot of it is open source already, but key parts like the UI are not15:40
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uuhimhereisnt that what makes sailfishos sailfishos15:42
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tiwakeobviously it is, because thats what they are currently doing15:42
uuhimhereNicd-: where are the soirces again? the sadk?15:42
Nicd-I think most is at https://github.com/nemomobile15:42
locusfand https://git.merproject.org15:43
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locusfuuhimhere: nemo is sailfish alternative, based on mer and completely foss15:45
uuhimherelocusf: yeah i understand ur interest in nemo now ;)15:47
uuhimheredoes it use mer's ui?15:47
TaaeemMer doesn't have an UI15:47
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uuhimhereNicd-: if like tbr insinuates , that the jolla doesnt survive past 2016 withoit a licensee, i hope they do the noble tjing and gpl their ui15:48
TaaeemMer is the core over that is nemomobile middleware and than comes sailfish or the nemomobile UI15:48
uuhimherelocusf: is maemo's ui o[en?15:49
uuhimheresorry i meant nemos ui15:49
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uuhimherenemomobile is an entire user space then is what ir saying; from ui to appsp15:51
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Taaeemuhmimhere: Nemo is completely open source15:53
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jubo2How do I easiest copy ~/.vault/People/data/all.vcf to the MicroSD card or ssh it over to a server ?15:58
jubo2or is it copied to the MicroSD when I make a backup and use the "backup to card" ? If yes, where can I find it16:00
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jubo2I've heard that ~/.vault/People/data/all.vcf contains all the contact info in a form that an android will accept16:00
Yanielshould be in the root folder of the sdcard IIRC16:00
Yanielit is packed into a .tar.gx16:00
Yaniel*.tar.gz16:00
jubo2ok thänks Yaniel16:01
jubo2Yaniel: Backup.tar ?16:01
Yanielsounds right16:01
Yanielno gz then16:01
jubo2files size seems to match16:01
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jubo2Yaniel: It is in some subdirectory in Backup.tar ?16:13
jubo2that all.vcf16:14
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jubo2I cannot find it16:15
jubo2So I must get to the directory ~/.vault/People/data/ with file browser or a shell16:16
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jubo2problems: I cannot navigate to hidden .vault directory16:16
jubo2and I don't have a shell since I could not find it in the store16:16
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Nicd-jubo2: you can install fingerterm by enabling developer mode16:24
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Joonaai just added 55 new songs to my phone16:31
Joonaathe player found 10 of them16:31
Joonaa... very impressive16:32
jubo2Nicd-: which says it "may" void the warranty16:33
jubo2Does it void or does it ( developer mode ) not void the warranty16:33
Nicd-jubo2: basically if you break your phone with the developer mode it's your fault16:33
jubo2This phone needs some serious servicing16:33
Nicd-copying files is usually not something you can break your phone with16:34
Joonaaits funny how you have to void your warranty to fix your media player16:34
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Nicd-Joonaa: it says it *may* void your warranty16:36
Nicd-so don't break it to the point of not being able to factory reset and you should be fine16:36
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Joonaayeah, but technically after i enable developer mode they can say "sorry, no warranty"16:37
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jubo2how do I get '@'-sign in fingerterm ?16:37
Stskeepsin practice developer mode vs not is a matter of easier figuring out where a fault is16:37
Stskeepsif developer mode wasn't enabled, it's 100% a warranty case16:38
Joonaayeah16:38
Nicd-jubo2: shift + _16:38
jubo2kdänks Nicd-16:38
Joonaait depends on how nice they want to be, i guess16:38
Stskeepsunless you do awesomely stupid shit you can't fix with a reflash or recovery mode..16:38
Stskeepslike nuking the fastboot or screwing up the filesystem16:38
ggabriel...or dropping the phone in water with dev mode on16:39
Nicd-in that case I don't think the dev mode matters… :P16:39
Joonaaim pretty sure they wouldnt cover accidental damage anyways16:39
Stskeepsyeah, but dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk0 is hardly accidential16:40
Stskeeps:P16:40
Joonaadropping the phone in water is16:40
Stskeepsthere was this guy that put a jolla in a lot of water while videoing it..16:41
Stskeeps:P16:41
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Joonaaoh no16:41
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chem|stdoes it blend?17:15
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tiwakeI can check... I have a blendtec blender here :317:17
chem|stsooo... is anyone interested to make the jolla a flight controller...before sending it in to blendtec??17:18
chem|sttiwake: first see if it flies then blend it?17:18
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jubo2I saw an ad that talked about AAPL may reach $1 trillion market capitalization. Also was concept art for car and some marketing dept.17:19
tiwakechem|st: heh... need a control unit though for a proper test17:19
jubo2Basically the marketing department wanted to convey to hype up the hype since AAPL market cap is now ~ 750 billion USD17:19
chem|stapple is overrated17:21
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chem|sttheir product quality is apeshit and people willing to pay $600 for a $300 device are, well, not so intelligent17:22
jubo2iCar.. iVoiture ? mais pourquoi pas? Si ça fait 33% bénéfice pour les actionnaires alors biensûr17:23
chem|stthe iphone owners in my proximity will probably not buy another as the hardware is failing and apple controlling their device makes them feel uncomfortable17:24
jubo2$750B -> $1T == +33%17:24
chem|st$3t is even 400%17:24
Nicd-my wife is really keen on her iphone though17:24
trt`good, jubo2 i wish you were not right17:24
Nicd-prolly gonna buy a 6 when they're cheaper17:25
jubo2I just bought a Sony Xperia M2 Aqua for half of what I paid for my Jolla17:25
chem|stmy GF would go jolla if it was smaller17:25
Stskeepssmartwatch jolla?17:25
Stskeeps:P17:25
Nicd-jolla watch confirmed!17:25
chem|stStskeeps: yes please17:25
Nicd-hehehe17:25
trt`my wife and her sister seem like they'll never switch from iPhone17:25
jubo2Android with special manufacturer specific software.. but under Android or on top of Android.. That didn't really get answered in the buying/selling situation17:26
StskeepsNicd-: pfft, i'm the king of strange projects that never get anywhere17:27
Stskeeps:P17:27
Stskeepsi must say though, that lg webos lte smartwatch is just sexy17:27
Nicd-personally I wouldn't buy an iphone but I do love my macbook so far17:28
Stskeepsi am currently getting shit on twitter after marc dillon posted a photo of me coding on a macbook air.17:28
Stskeepsssh'ing to a linux machine of all things to do so.17:28
Stskeeps:P17:28
trt`hahah17:28
chem|stStskeeps: one idea for that always pops into my mind, why have a digital watchface if you could have a screen above an analog one, isnt the Smart doing so for their navigation system?17:28
Nicd-chem|st: good idea, that way at least the watch works17:29
Stskeepschem|st: i think somebody did that already, but yeah, having clock on at all times is rather.. well, people are doing smartwatches in the wrong way today17:29
Stskeepshttp://www.ablogtowatch.com/montblanc-e-strap-combines-smart-wearable-device-mechanical-watch-timewalker-urban-speed-collection/17:29
Stskeepsis one way to do it17:29
chem|stStskeeps: the wrong way is exactly what I thought about... and fun fact, watch manufacturers are preparing to sue the hell out of LG, Samsung and co for immitating their original watchfaces iirc collectively17:30
trt`hahah, I favorited the pic17:30
chem|stStskeeps: yeah that is what I'd buy, seen it yesterday17:31
chem|stI'd also like the watch though but 3k is a bit out of my league atm^^17:32
trt`I wouldn't buy a smartwatch until it costs below $50 and battery lasts a week17:33
jubo2DNA Limitless 4G: 95.5MB in under 15 s17:34
jubo2just downloaded a system upgrade17:34
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chem|stjubo2: welcome to this decade17:34
Stskeepstrt`: mediatek 3g smartwatches are 88 USD sales price nowadays17:35
jubo2Isn't the carrier waves used in a optical networks like THz or so?..17:35
jubo2Somewhere read that 5G should have up-to-1Gb/s17:36
tigelijubo2: even more17:36
jubo2or they don't use carrier wave at all.. they just put photon packets into it17:36
trt`yeah 2017:36
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trt`and it will be ready in Tokyo by 2020 for the olympics17:37
trt`Nokia will build it17:37
jubo2xaxaxa17:37
chem|stlol17:37
trt`:)17:37
jubo2humankind ravels in it's creativity17:37
jubo2No.. don't get me wrong.. I look forward to the Tokyo 2020 'lympics17:38
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trt`:)17:38
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jubo2I heard there were some interesting results to nanoscopically structured computer-designed light-bending structures17:40
jubo2pienen pieniä optisia hilakoneita ts.17:41
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chem|sts'light'ly bent oled tvs?17:43
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jubo2chem|st: no.. you know the valon taipuminen hiloissa17:47
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jubo2When light faces a corner it bends slightly17:47
jubo2similarly like you can see also water doing17:48
jubo2they can hook up smaller electronics with optical buses17:49
jubo2or that's what I think I understood17:49
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japa-fiI'm trying to enable charging control to my jolla (https://together.jolla.com/question/55764/charging-limitation-for-enhanced-battery-life-feature-request/ LVPVS reply on 5.march). But the script to be launched is not visible on the "situations" - launch list. Any ideas?18:38
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ejjomangood evening19:16
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chem|stejjoman: o/20:25
messertingHi Sailors, what XMPP service/servers do you use?20:25
chem|stjabber.org20:25
chem|stmesserting: there is somewhere a list with XEP supported by what server... you might want to use one with all plugins you need20:26
chem|stbut otoh if the other end does not support a client client feat. you might as well just look for a server that has all server client feat. you like20:27
ortylpmesserting: jabber.org20:32
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ortylpIn case we have Frenchmen here... what GSM/UMTS prepaid provider would you recommend for a week low speed flatrate Internet access in Provence?20:35
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messertingchem|st, ortylp: thanks20:40
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messertingSo, the register.jabber.org SSL certificate expired in 2013? Nice.20:54
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chem|stmesserting: where are you from?20:57
messertingNorway20:57
chem|stwhat about jabber.no?20:58
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chem|stor do you prefer something not hosted in .no?20:58
messertingchem|st: nice, thanks :)20:59
chem|sthttps://xmpp.net/directory.php21:00
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fredrinhi21:29
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chem|stlow21:30
fredrin:)21:31
fredrin1021:31
chem|st1121:31
fredrinhihi21:31
chem|sthoho21:31
fredrinnah, not christmas yet21:31
chem|st21:32
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fredrinWhy cant I use Pebble Orginale App on my Jolla? :( Sailfish app will never be the same. How to update firmware e.g.?21:37
fredrinSail0r: hoi21:39
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Sail0rhoi21:41
fredrinMaybe I just should install the SDK....21:41
Sail0rfredrin: because dalvik does not have proper BT implementation21:42
Sail0rbut some people already try to figure out how to update pebble firmware via pebbled21:42
fredrinI know, you said before. Who can I throw BTC at so the problem goes away?21:42
fredrin:)21:42
Sail0rI prefer native solution ;)21:43
Sail0rtry to ask at github21:43
Sail0ror gitter21:43
Sail0rhttps://gitter.im/smokku/pebble#utm_source=notification&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=unread-notifications21:43
tbrfredrin: talk to smoku, I think he's the main driver21:43
Sail0ror javispedro who did lot's of work towards js implementation21:44
Sail0rI think a soon as Pebble Time arrives there will be another major bump on pebbled21:44
Sail0rbecause more pebble have a pebble and want it to work on sailfishos21:45
fredrinok21:45
ikarusSail0r: yup, I delayed my Pebbly acquisition as I smelled that something new was happening21:46
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fredrinAre they changing the OS on the pebble? from FreeRTOS to WebOS?21:55
ikarusnope21:57
ikarusit's at least fully compatible if they change anything21:57
ikarusfrom my info they are just moving to a M4 ARM proc for it21:57
ikarusso slightly more performance21:57
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attah_jollawhat does "hyc" mean anyway?22:01
Nicd-helsinki yachting club22:01
attah_jollaobviusly ;)22:02
Nicd-I'm not joking22:02
ikarusIf someone wants to fund me to implement better aliendalvik -> Bluetooth functionality, supply me with money and hardware this summer, I am familiar with Bluez stacks and Android Bluetooth22:02
ikarusBut I may need to negotiate with Jolla for access to the right layers22:02
attah_jollai mean the kind of hyc that seems tl be overflowing tjc nowadays...22:03
ikarus(not entirely a joke)22:04
Nicd-attah_jolla: it's what I said22:05
chem|stattah_jolla: still helsinki yachting club...22:05
chem|stjust click the tag and you will find the related entry22:05
ikarushyc would be a good name indeed for the local user group22:05
chem|stikarus: I looked it up and as there was no local club of that name I found it to be a good name22:06
ikaruschem|st: yup22:06
ikarusI am sadly not in Finland or else I would strongly agree22:06
attah_jollad'oh! missed that when i looked at tagged posts22:07
ikarusattah_jolla: remember what Jolla means in Finland22:07
chem|stthe idea came from my sister actually22:07
ikarusit's why my applications are all nautical puns22:07
chem|stnot the name but the idea of the naming22:07
attah_jolla:)22:08
ikarusbut seriously, I need something to do over summer, if I can offset some of my effort to improve aliendalvik Bluetooth interactions, I'd love it22:08
chem|stbtw my GF was making me aware that one of her friends is developing a cloud storage solution, highly encrypted on user level - called whalesong22:08
chem|stikarus: ask at myriad if you can have a summer assignment with them22:09
attah_jollai wonder if a few posts could do with a blurb a la skunkworks22:09
ikaruschem|st: link ?22:09
chem|stmyriad group, the ones behind alien dalvik22:09
ikaruschem|st: btw, for me it's mostly the HW cost issue :(22:09
chem|stfor what?22:10
ikarusI only have a very limited selection of test BT stuff22:10
ikarusthat absolutely needs Android apps22:10
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ikarusBut it seems something many people complain about22:10
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chem|stehrm I have nothing of that kind... I have everything linux/debian compatible...22:10
ikarusand well, otherwise this summer I am probably implementing something stupid like raytracers for virtual enviroment quad copters22:11
ikarusBecause sadly not only does uni have nothing fun to do over summer, neither do most gamedev companies I work for22:11
ikarusand I hate summers22:11
* ikarus doesn't see herself on a beach in a bikini any time soon22:12
fredrin:)22:12
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fredrinsauna22:13
ikarusoh yes, but my own private one22:13
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fredrinthat's nice22:14
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fredrinwhat's your btc address?22:15
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fredrinor QR code, more easy22:15
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ikarusfredrin: heh, I don't have one at the moment22:16
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chem|stikarus: uh a friend of mine is doing his phd on tracing... but as he is insane he is tracing people in offices with the bare use of motion detectors22:16
ikaruschem|st: heh, I've worked with a bunch of students in the bachelor for location tracking based on wifi APs22:17
fredriniBacon22:17
fredriniBeacon22:17
ikarusfredrin: but if you are serious, I might setup a wallet for it again22:18
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chem|stikarus: if you do not see yourself in a bikini, how about you find something else to do than sitting in a dark room in LED light coding the crap out of your keyboard?22:18
ikaruschem|st: but, idk, I like being kept busy22:19
fredrinI'm not going to send you a million, but some to support. Just a donation. Nice to have a wallet anyway.22:19
ikaruschem|st: and there is always the finances22:19
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chem|stikarus: I can keep you busy... how about you get me an edelweiss flower? hiking isn't expensive22:20
ikarushehehe22:20
ikaruschem|st: sadly it's more that even buying a phone every few years is a hit on your finances22:20
chem|stI like to go offline, not just afk when I am on vacation22:20
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ikarusmeh, during that time I spend less time online22:21
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ikarusand find odd paces to code22:21
ikarusplaces22:21
ikarusBut if I can turn my hobby into at least a bit of a financial buffer22:21
chem|stborrow a solar charger and go somewhere really odd to code... document it and publish a journal about coding off the grid22:22
fredrinIf you mean that, you should have a BTC wallet22:22
ikaruschem|st: that is most of my summers, yes22:22
chem|stI am sure that some paper would honour such effort22:22
ikaruslast year was schwartzwald22:23
chem|stor videolog it, and make a series on youtube, if it is any good you can earn some from it22:23
ikarushehhehe22:23
chem|stwhere are you from?22:23
ikarusI am too much of a derp for a videolog22:24
ikarusThe Netherlands22:24
fredrinvlog22:24
fredrinDen Haag?22:24
ikarusHamsterjam22:24
fredrinah, I like Den Haag22:25
fredrinmeer22:25
chem|stok I be afk then, calling it! bb22:25
ikarusI'm there every so often, it's fun22:25
ikarusused to visit it more often22:25
fredrinI've been doing some work at Museon22:25
ikarusthat's fun22:25
fredrinyes22:26
ikarusthis country is pocketsized22:26
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fredrinyes, and man made land, like fake land :)22:30
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fredrinno offence22:31
fredrinBut I like the people, been there many times, amster and den haag22:31
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ikarusfake land, fake people, fake life, I am reasonably happy here though22:33
fredrin^ the world :)22:34
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fredrinGood to be happy though, more important than physical location22:36
fredrinlet me test some ascii art22:40
fredrin22:40
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ikarushehehe22:41
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ikarusfredrin: I'll set up a wallet in the morning22:41
ikarusbut not when I am too drunk to setup a backup for it22:41
Nicd-fredrin: don't paste stuff like that into the channel22:41
fredrinAmsterdam is BTC place number one22:41
ikarusfredrin: only if you like coffee22:42
fredrinNicd-: ok, was just a test.22:42
fredrindid not work though, it got inverted somehow22:42
Nicd-yeah, don't test :)22:42
Nicd-or test on an empty channel22:42
pahartikfredrin: On most channels, flood is not acceptable test22:42
fredrinyes, I know22:43
fredrinsry, it's saturday22:43
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fredrinikarus: just have multiple wallets22:47
ikarusfredrin: yes, but I will only set them up when I could legally drive22:48
fredrinlol, ok22:48
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ikarus723:10
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messertinggreat entertainment, cheers.23:21
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