#jollamobile log for Tuesday, 2015-03-17

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pdaneklpotter: "I wish we were working on another phone"00:22
pdanekIt isn't worked on?00:22
pdanekI thought there will be another phone or two releases in 2015.00:22
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MorgawrI know it's a wild shot, but anybody played with Sunvox for android running inside jolla? Just wondering before I buy it (at worst I'll use it on my android)01:40
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Yanielgood question04:16
Yanielthough I'd be more interested in a native version04:17
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jaacoppiaI've got an url to a .mp3 file. How do I download it so Media app can access it? If I click the url in the browser it just starts playing06:06
Yanielcurl -O06:09
Teguor webcat from store06:09
jaacoppior ssh to device. Just hoped there'd be a simpler way06:11
jaacoppinot that I'd be playing music with a phone anyway, just curious06:12
Teguyea, indeed.. same with videos06:12
jaacoppiactually I needed to show a video from my Jolla yesterday06:13
jaacoppinot a movie, an instructional video related to my hobbies06:13
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Nicd-hey, wasn't there an app in the official store that ran an HTTP server on the device?08:59
Nicd-so it could serve files and stuff09:00
Yanielsailserver09:00
Nicd-can't find with search09:01
Nicd-ah, there09:01
Nicd-searching for "server" wasn't enough apparently :P09:01
Nicd-thanks Yaniel09:01
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servalexHi! Just received my jolla. Is there some special operations that i have to do before starting using it? Or just register account and update software?10:21
Nicd-servalex: create jolla account, then upgrade10:21
Nicd-don't do anything else10:21
Nicd-don't touch developer mode or install apps yet10:21
servalexWow10:22
jaacoppiservalex: this is shameless self promotion, but you could check out http://fromasailfishosnoob.tumblr.com. I've detailed my first days with the Jolla there10:22
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servalexThanks. I'm asking because i remember people had some issues with sim cards and battery draining but didn't follow this topics10:26
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jaacoppiYou should forget 95% of what's been said about Jolla and Sailfish during launch and early 2014. There's been so many updates that it's a completely different product now compared to 6 months ago10:28
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jarkko_imo there should be a sequel to the tutorial (a '102' if you will) somewhere. For example, I had used my Jolla for quite a while until someone here mentioned casually that you can swipe an app in Home for various things.10:35
zuttoisnt that part of the tutorial?10:36
jarkko_I don't think so, only swiping the screen up or down from inside or from outside.10:37
jarkko_the ambiances could be covered in this sequel, too.10:38
zuttoiirc it went quite a lot further than that10:38
zuttoonly thing it didnt tell me that i found very helpful, was that you can close an app (and lock the screen) by changing a setting and changing the swipe from top-to-bottom ;P10:38
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jarkko_I just re-run the tutorial to confirm that it isn't there. It isn't.10:40
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jarkko_zutto: how do you get to the notifications then, as it's top-to-bottom by default?10:47
jarkko_oops :)10:47
servalexIsn't it bottom to top?10:48
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jarkko_I mean, isn't that how it works by default (forget about the notifications above :)10:48
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zuttobottom to top for notifications10:50
jarkko_swipe from top to bottom to close an app (but not to lock the screen) if one is running, or to lock the screen if none is, to be specific.10:50
zuttoyeah10:50
Joonaawhat do notifications even do? the only semi-useful thing there is app update notifications10:50
Joonaafor me anyways10:50
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zuttoJoonaa: for example, i have weechat-android running all the time10:50
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zuttoi get highlight notifications there10:50
zuttonot that useful but.. they do exist! :P10:51
tadziktext messages are there10:51
Joonaawell that doesnt sound useful at all!10:51
Joonaashouldnt you be getting sound or something? :)10:51
zuttoif the notification sounds worked, it would be :P10:51
Joonaa.. of course :P10:51
zuttotho i keep my phone silent almost 24/710:51
tadziksound, to interrupt music?10:51
tadzik(I liked how N900 did this)10:51
Joonaai think skype offline/online messages were the only things i had there10:52
Joonaanow that i dont even use that anymore... its empty10:52
jarkko_I use notifications for updates, email, whatsapp, sms...10:54
Joonaahmm, i guess i just dont use my phone for much :)10:55
jaacoppiLock screen shows that there's an email or missed call. Go to notifications to see what it is and if you need to react now or later10:55
Joonaai also havent noticed whatsapp notifications there10:55
Joonaathough to be fair i never open it..10:56
jaacoppiconvenient compared to opening the lock screen and opening all the apps one by one10:56
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Joonaayeah that sounds fine10:57
Joonaai guess ill use that if i ever get anything like that :)10:57
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jaacoppicalls and messages? Hopefully you'll get them at least around christmas and birthdays10:58
jarkko_Joonaa: the (android) whatsapp icon doesn't appear on the lock screen, but appears in notifications. I usually hear the WA sound, then check the notification. Open the app only if I need to see more or to respond.10:59
jaacoppiI only wish android notifications would blink the notification LED10:59
Joonaayou hear the sound?11:00
politiejaacoppi i believe theres an app for that11:00
Joonaai only get it when the app is open11:00
jarkko_ah, notification LED. That could be included in the tutorial sequel as well :)11:00
Joonaayeah, i just learned the led actually does something..11:00
* jarkko_ goes to google what the different colours meant again...11:00
jaacoppiI hear the sound and I see the notification from android apps when they are open, but the LED would be nice as well11:01
politiehttp://www.jollausers.com/2015/02/sound-led-and-haptic-feedback-for-android-notifications/11:01
politiethis works for me11:01
Joonaaim very jealous11:02
Joonaamaybe i need to update my wa app or something..11:02
jaacoppiI used Zedge to assign a whatsapp notification tone11:03
jarkko_regarding whatsapp, http://www.jollausers.com/2015/03/a-new-whatsapp-client-called-whastup-too-hit-sailfish-os-soon/11:04
Joonaaoh, no wonder then11:05
IkarusReminds me, I need to see if I can pipe a desktop copy of Skype via the still existing DBUS API over the internet into Telepathy :)11:05
jaacoppiI used https://jolla.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203442828-Setting-up-WhatsApp-for-Android-on-your-Jolla-device11:05
politiemaybe you can with skyped11:06
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jaacoppiwhy not use android skype?11:09
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Ikarusjaacoppi: because it is broken by design and it doesn't integrate ?11:09
Ikaruspolitie: looks like an option11:11
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jaacoppidoesn't desktop skype suffer from these same problems?11:13
Ikarusjaacoppi: yes ? so ?11:14
Ikarusdoesn't mean I can't prioritise fixing it on mobile first :)11:14
Ikarusthe Android application is far MORE broken11:14
politieskype android really sucks indeed11:15
jaacoppiskype android on Jolla works better than on my android tablet11:17
Ikarussuuure, but that doesn't mean it's a good application11:17
politiejaacoppi haha yea same here works better than on my android phone11:18
jaacoppiSame than with Whatsapp, there are better applications out there but since everyone else is already using the bad ones..11:18
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the_mgt"everyone else" maps rather good to the set of "most of the morons"...11:22
the_mgtprime reason for me to stay away. it is sad enough how many unwanted email conversations i have :D11:22
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Joonaaew, email!11:25
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jaacoppiemail is awesome11:32
Ikarusemail is horrible11:33
jaacoppilike mail, but the handwriting is easy to decipher11:33
Joonaai personally prefer im or irc :)11:33
jaacoppithey're used for different purposes11:33
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chem|stjaacoppi: so what for? it is all chat software with different capabilities... I would prefer xmpp with some more extensions up to voip and pgp/otr over any other system12:35
Tucho-arc+112:35
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mornfallbtw. what happened to the matte finish on the tablet that was shown in the renders? :\13:20
mornfallthe mwc devices appear to be very glossy13:20
chem|stmornfall: the back looks matte to me, where did you see glossy?13:25
chem|stmornfall: I am more wondering "why does it have no NFC, again"13:26
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mornfallhttp://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/jolla-tablet-hands-on-sg-6.jpg works like a mirror, too! :P13:27
mornfallcompare https://images.indiegogo.com/file_attachments/1018941/files/20141116041206-hero.png?141613992613:28
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the_mgtchem|st: I still have not one single use for nfc13:45
the_mgtsince 2011 or so, when i got my first nfc capable phone13:45
chem|stI'd replace my yubikey witha yubikeyNeo13:46
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the_mgtchem|st: I can see that going mass market like rocketdriven kittens...13:49
chem|stthe_mgt: in some countries NFC is already made a standard payment option13:49
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the_mgtin germany, we are afraid of new technik13:53
the_mgtthere are some bank payment cards which have touch functionality, but since most germans still prefer to pay cash... mass market penetration will probably hit 205413:54
Nicd-be happy you don't have nfc cards :P13:55
Nicd-in finland there aren't many ways to avoid them13:56
the_mgtscandinavians seem more keen to use "plastic" money13:56
Nicd-we aren't scandinavian though13:57
Joonaai dont really care about nfc, i just want self-checkouts at my local store13:57
the_mgtNicd-: sorry13:58
Nicd-:)14:00
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xkr47oh my my phone screen goes blank and the light flashes green14:06
xkr47what does this mean?14:06
EzkoNicd-: ah, a fellow scholar in the field of finland is not scandinavia14:08
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chem|stxkr47: lipstick probably crashed, nothing to worry as long as it does not blink read14:28
chem|stred14:28
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SfietKontantinWxkr47: blinking green light means: compositor takes time to respond, ie: your phone is frozen for a reason15:18
xkr47the first symptoms was that saving calendar entries did not save anything.. tried 3 times15:21
xkr47then the screen went blank and started blinking.. after a while the "running apps" screen appeared without apps15:22
xkr47*green light started blinking15:22
xkr47then again the screen went blank and green blinking15:22
xkr47so I rebooted it15:22
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SfietKontantinWxkr47: crashes yeah15:26
SfietKontantinWwonder why15:27
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xkr47yeah..15:44
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uuhimhereherrickreport.com/whalerecipes.html17:50
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mekluhm, anyone managed to get kik's android client to log in?18:46
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raa700you need some files from working installation19:28
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keithzgNicd-: Finland isn't Scandinavian in the same way that Canada isn't American. True from the internal perspective, but you aren't really going to convince the rest of the world about it ;)19:39
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mjrif you want to be pedantic, "Nordic" is the word19:43
Nicd-keithzg: difference is Canada is part of North America19:43
Nicd-Finland is not part of Scandinavia19:43
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chem|stNicd-: so it is russia then?19:47
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Hartzichem|st: such a stupid question19:48
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Nicd-chem|st: Nordic countries, fennoscandia or just Finland. :P19:48
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kimmolihttp://i.imgur.com/lfJnT.png19:51
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keithzgNicd-: America doesn't mean North America, though, otherwise the Republicans wouldn't have such a problem with the Mexicans ;)19:55
keithzgI'm not saying you're wrong, obviously, just that it's an uphill battle to inform folks from elsewhere.19:56
Hartzi'murica19:56
keithzgHartzi: f'yeah! /me waves flag out the window while driving pickup truck19:56
Nicd-keithzg: doesn't mean it's fruitless :P19:56
kimmoliwe did that only on '95 never forget19:57
keithzgNicd-: Lets reconvene in a decade, see how much progress has been made :D19:57
Nicd-I don't go out of my way looking for people to correct. but I might say about it when I see it19:57
keithzgFair 'nuff.19:57
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keithzgAlthough, isn't Finland in a way part of the Scandinavian region due to the sizable Swedish-speaking minority? Apologies if I'm way off the mark here, I just know these things indirectly from hanging out sometimes with my Uni's Scandinavian Club (which did involve some people specifically interested in Finland, since they didn't have their own club, heh)20:01
keithzgAnd I guess from Linus Torvalds being a Swedish-speaking Finn too. But that's the extent of my limited knowledge.20:02
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Nicd-keithzg: sweden has almost double the amount of sweden finns than finland has finnish swedes20:04
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Nicd-it's true we are part of the nordic countries. but that's why we have the term nordic countries :P20:05
keithzgHeh. Well, if the term is being used on the basis of linguistics, yeah, even I know that Finnish doesn't really have much in common with the Scandinavian languages!20:07
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sakustarchem|st: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2qjohv/what_did_your_parents_show_you_to_do_that_you/cn6p5qg20:25
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sakustarabout finland20:25
Tegufinland is a lie20:26
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ottulo_anyone using their Jolla in Finnish? I'm wondering if the default folder names are in English or Finnish20:32
ottulo_I could switch the language, but that'd require a reboot and I admit to being lazy20:33
entilthe file system looks very english20:33
ottulo_entil: thanks20:33
entilthe missus uses her jolla in finnish but I'm sorry to say I can't bother her right now with that20:33
entilif you use the kari file browser you see all the directories as they are20:34
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ottulo_well, I'm using mine in English so I haven't ever seen if the folder names are localized, but I guess they wouldn't be20:34
entilmyeah, the apps abstract a lot of that away20:36
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entillike the gallery app just takes the tree of all images, doesn't much bother with naming of subdirectories20:36
ottulo_I suppose so, although I regularly need to browse the file system either through an app or in FingerTerm20:36
ottulo_^that gallery could really use some subdirectories :/20:37
entilit probably wouldn't be a long stretch, cuz you can already have them, they're just not exposed to the app itself in any way20:37
ottulo_I copied all images on mine to subfolders by month, but that doesn't help all that much...20:37
entillike if the default view were as it is now but you could organize them20:37
entilfwiw if you opened a question-issue on tjc and let me know about it I'd upvote it :D20:38
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ottulo_if I didn't already have so much that I'm supposed to do, I might try to write up some gallery app for Jolla20:38
ottulo_unfortunately, the closest to programming I've done is some scripts, usually just edited for my needs, so that'd take months at best :D20:39
entilif the current gallery app's open-sourced you could take a try at hacking it20:40
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entilnot sure the community would benefit from competition in that particular field because a gallery app doesn't have to be that complicated20:40
ottulo_there's already a post on tjc for that, btw: https://together.jolla.com/question/1948/feature-request-folderalbum-view-in-gallery/20:41
entilupvot'd20:41
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ottulo_I agree there'd be little use for competition, since I don't expect much from the app either20:41
ottulo_but since the feature is currently missing and if I was to study Qt, what better way than to make something useable20:42
entil"I suggest to use folders in the camera app as well, for example one folder per month. Browsing through one huge folder takes very long time, even via usb." that's the kind of stuff you may want to do without actual directories but logical "folders" in the app20:42
entilyeah, as long as the app's open-source, which I don't know it is20:42
ottulo_huh, I logged in to upvote that, but I seem to have upvoted it already :D20:43
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entilhah :)20:43
entilthere was a comment "I'm amazed this is so low down on the list of priorities" and sucks to say but for a startup that needs to push out products to stay afloat something like a gallery app can't be the priority20:44
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ottulo_sure, but I guess adding the feature seems pretty trivial to most people20:45
ottulo_I admit I don't know how much work could be expected from that20:46
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entilsure, but it's not necessarily trivial..20:46
ottulo_>seems trivial20:46
entillike if you want images by month, right? like someone said about the camera?20:46
entilyes :D20:46
entillet me just get this out of my system before going to sleep and/or watch the new better call saul episode20:46
entilso you have uniform naming when it comes to the camera, you can break the directory contents into logical folders based on the file names, but what happens when you have an app that creates files in a subdirectory?20:47
entilso you end up in a situation where you should be doing only file name parsing but suddenly mtimes, and then you do mtimes only, and that is easy or even trivial but it's one feature20:48
entilthen you need a manager for moving photos from one folder to another20:48
entilshould you be able to have a photo in more than one album or not?20:48
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entilanyway, these things are still between trivial and easy, and the UI is probably the hardest part, and as long as you don't paint yourself in a corner you can always add more features with relative ease20:49
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ottulo_with photos I think it'd be most secure to go with EXIF date, although that requires extra work to get the date out, and only works on the files that have the tags intact20:50
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entilexif does not necessarily exist, but I don't think there are a lot of ways to interfere with mtimes on the phone20:51
entilbut even if you took mtimes only as your approach, cuz all the cool kids are doing mtimes, you need to scan the directory for files and bucket them into mtime-based folders and that's an r&d task cuz I doubt many people know whether or not that's going to be too heavy20:52
ottulo_actually, working with EXIF might be an issue also if you have photos copied from the internet and elsewhere that could be ages old20:52
entilmy gut tells me any kind of db or caching blows this out of proportion so the solutions should be fast enough as-is20:52
ottulo_you'd have a whole bunch of subfolders with few images in each, and have trouble finding the files :D20:52
entilwhat this imo leads to is that the issues aren't particularly hard but there's enough of figuring-shit-out that compared to shipping the tablet it pales in comparison20:53
ottulo_or only separate camera photos in the app, and keep the rest according their position in the file system20:53
ottulo_"it's easier to build and release a tablet than to add subfolder support in a gallery app" is what you're saying? ;P20:54
entilit's more important to put the r&d effort into the tablet than improving upon a feature that works well enough for a phone that's just over a year old20:54
ottulo_yeah20:54
entilthat's what I'm saying, and hopefully pointing out some of the things that take r&d time in practice20:55
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ursFeature request for the next phone: please include a camera good enough to image the aurora over helsinki (as it is happening right now)21:11
chem|stsakustar: redd'it^^21:12
ottulo_urs: I managed to capture a couple bright stars (read: planet and maybe a star), but no aurora21:12
ottulo_then again, they were almost too faint to see with the naked eye either21:12
ursyeah, true.21:13
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keithzgurs: had aurora over my own city (Edmonton) last weekend, thought for a moment about tryng to capture it but decided it wasn't the time for technology at the moment :)22:01
keithzgAlthough I got some great aurora pictures back in teh day with my N900 since you could set manual exposure/iso/etc settings. Amazing what could be done with that thanks to the open drivers.22:02
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