#jollamobile log for Tuesday, 2015-03-31

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dr_gogeta86we are near 2.5M$08:13
dr_gogeta86where is the 3g module ?08:13
dr_gogeta86even better LTE :D08:14
ln-above 2.5M$ even08:14
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nivwany news for us jolla phone users?08:31
Nicd-what kind of news?08:31
nivwwill the cargo dock app improve and cache files locally, as drop box does?08:31
Nicd-well that's not up to jolla, you should ask the dev08:31
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nivwwill we be able to search emails in the emaill app?08:32
nivwwill we be able to copy text from a webpage?08:32
nivwwill jolla send more battries?08:32
Nicd-email search is coming in next update or the one after that08:33
Nicd-no info about batteries or copying text from browser08:33
nivwI had the nexsus 4 and got used to a screen that doesnt' scrath, the jolla does08:34
nivwI was shocked08:34
nivwwill jolla release a phone with a bettr screen?08:35
Tegumeanwhile webcat handles my copying needs with the exception of text fields :/ so, not ideal08:35
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fluxit still seems to me android firefox takes less memory than the newly improved browser :/08:37
Nicd-nivw: there is no info about a future phone08:37
fluxafter browsing for a while with firefox background apps typically don't close, but they do if I use the standard browser08:37
Nicd-flux: I haven't had backround apps close when I use the stock browser08:38
Nicd-not anymore08:38
Nicd-but the browser itself does crash sometimes08:38
fluxin particular switching browser orientation seems to be a killer08:38
Nicd-also, making new uptime record currently :)08:38
Nicd-30 days 22 h 11 min08:38
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nivwthanks Nicd- thanks, how can I see the upcoming features in the neext release?08:45
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Nicd-nivw: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2015-March/005875.html08:50
fluxcool! new kernel! 3.4.106.08:56
nivwGtreamer 1.x ,mean miracast!08:58
nivwawsome08:58
Yanielmeanwhile linus is about to tag 4.008:58
Yaniellots of neat stuff though09:00
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nivw3.19 had two things: lots of btrfs improvements  and device tree overlay09:18
nivwI am guessing the jolla phone doens't use device tree overlay for GPIO - right?09:18
temmi_hoodoes it need gpio for anything? are there any external connections like the phone has?09:19
kjokinieno device tree in jolla phone kernel09:19
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nivwkjokine: is kexec used in your development? yesterday, a guy asked about it here09:23
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nivwemm, can I use my desktop keyboard on my jolla phone?11:13
nivwkind of vnc11:13
ottulothrough ssh if you just need the terminal11:14
ottuloand there's an app for everywhere else, that isn't direct but should help11:14
ottuloit's called Sailfish WlanKeyboard, available in Jolla store11:16
tadzikand it doesn't do what you think it does11:16
ggabrielyuk to kbd via wlan11:16
ggabrielbluemameo ftw11:17
ggabrielbluemaemo*11:17
tadzikwell, that excludes wired keyboards :)11:17
ggabrielwlan surely excludes that too :)11:17
tadzikI wouldn't mind typing my text message on my desktop keyboard every now and then, but once I have to copypaste it anyway I may as well just type it on the phone11:17
ggabrieloh, i got it the other way around11:18
tadzikwell, a wired keyboard is usually indirectly connected to a network, if you know what I mean  :)11:18
ggabrielbluemaemo is to use the phone as kbd/mouse11:18
tadzikand who uses bluetooth on desktop computers11:18
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tadzikah11:18
tadzikthat's beyond useless with jolla though :P Mouse, perhaps, but kbd... just no :)11:18
ggabrielwith tohkbd you could11:19
tadzikoh yes11:19
ggabrielalso, this boils down to the question of whether the jolla can do usb host11:19
ggabrielunless you want a ps/2 toh :P11:19
ggabrielor one of those really old school kbd connectors11:19
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ottulojust make a mechanical keyboard OH11:20
ggabrielottulo: that's tohkbd11:20
ottulothat punches the appropriate spots on the device11:20
ottuloggabriel: tohkbd is not mechanical11:20
ggabrieldefine mechanical11:20
ottuloI mean mechanical like the old typewriters11:20
ggabrielyou have buttons that you press -> mechanical11:20
ggabrielok11:21
ottulowhere the paper+ink film are punched11:21
ggabrielthat would be awesome11:21
scottcyou have buttons that you press -> physical11:21
scottcnot mechanical, that's a whole other kettle of fish!11:21
ggabrielscottc: i'd disagree on semantics11:21
tadzikphysical != mechanical11:21
scottcggabriel: how so?11:21
tadzikmechanical keyboard refers to a very specific thingy11:22
ggabrielwell, there is a mechanical part to any physical kbd11:22
ggabrielso, semantics11:22
tadzikthe difference between literal and actual meaning11:22
scottcokay, but the term "mechanical keyboard" is a specific term11:22
ggabrielscottc: not the way i know it, no11:22
ggabrielbut then i come from a far away place :)11:23
Nicd-ggabriel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_technology#Mechanical-switch_keyboard11:23
scottcokay, but what you know isn't necessarily canon ;)11:23
tadzikhah11:23
ggabrielthat applies to everything11:23
Nicd-they are usually just called mechanical keyboards11:23
Nicd-at least by everyone I know11:23
scottcyep11:23
ggabrielNicd-: but you kind of prove my point ;)11:23
scottci think it's quite the opposite11:24
ggabrielsomeone mentioned a typewriter (which would be cool)11:24
ggabrieli wouldn't have argued if you said mechanical-switch tho11:24
ggabrielas that def sounds specific11:25
tadzikit's a word-short, I guess11:25
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scottcmeh, it's a widely used and accepted term11:26
scottcanyway, it doesn't matter really11:27
* ggabriel doesn't konw electronics :)11:27
ggabrielno, doesn't matter11:27
ggabrielbut now i want a typewriter toh11:27
temmi_hoo:)11:27
ggabrielon a more serious note, usb host would be cool11:27
temmi_hooocr the paper coming out of a selectrix11:27
ggabrielas you could plug whatever11:27
ggabrielesp for the tablet11:28
scottcdoes the tablet not have USB host? that's disappointing11:28
tadziksince I got a usb stick with a microusb, I miss my n90011:28
ggabrielscottc: not sure we even know that level of detail yet11:28
scottchuh11:28
tadzikwasn't that stretch-goaled?11:28
ggabrieli'm sure there's a tjc11:28
scottci expected it would, probabily naively :)11:28
ggabrielummm, def not11:28
ggabrielhopefully it's just software11:29
scottcprobably*11:29
scottcyep11:29
ggabrielso it could come eventually11:29
ggabrieli read that the phone has some limitations tho11:29
temmi_hoosome usb chips don't do otg11:29
ggabrielbut i don't see myself typing with a full sized kbd on the phone11:29
Nicd-scottc: the tablet has USB OTG11:30
temmi_hootyping with full-sized keybored to a tablet might be good11:30
Nicd-so afaik that means USB host too11:30
temmi_hooespecially if you can have a nice stand for the tablet11:31
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Nicd-and USB OTG for the tablet was there since day 1, not even strect goaled, so dunno why people don't know about it :P11:34
Nicd-stretch*11:34
tadzikstretch goaled, stretch galled11:34
temmi_hooperhaps because it was not in big large friendly letters?11:34
temmi_hoo...possibly also because it was not a stretch goal11:34
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scottcNicd-: perfect, thanks!11:36
scottctemmi_hoo: by that logic, they should've put 'having an LCD' as a stretch goal to make sure that people knew it would be included :p11:37
temmi_hooindeed11:37
Liekehttps://images.indiegogo.com/file_attachments/1181563/files/20150129041205-spec-sheet.png < it's listed here11:37
scottcah, nice11:39
scottcgreat11:39
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scottcbought the 64GB upgrade yesterday11:39
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Nicd-wish I had use for it so I could buy it :P11:40
scottcbuy it!11:45
scottcit's going to be epic11:45
Nicd-but it's useless!11:45
scottcnever!11:45
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locusf2K fingerterm <311:45
FireFlyNo thanks, I'm hoping to replace the vkb with a physical one soon :p11:46
FireFlyfingerterm is *okay*, but far from excellent unfortunately11:46
scottci don't have the patience for a crap bluetooth keyboard on my phone11:46
scottcmush mush mush, horrible little rubber domes11:46
Nicd-I already have a laptop for all my mobile computing needs :P wife would like a tablet but she doesn't want a jolla11:48
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scottcNicd-: but does your laptop have such a nice screen?11:48
scottcI have a usable thinkpad x201, but it doesn't have a nice screen :)11:49
temmi_hooi'd like a real keyboard instead of a laptop keyboard for mobile computing11:49
scottcyeah11:49
Nicd-scottc: it has 220 ppi and it's enough for me11:50
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scottcI used to use my HHKB with my crap Android tablet and it worked okay, enough for SSH etc on the go11:50
TemeNicd-: i feel you man.. i'd like to get a new jolla device (to run stuff smoother) but tablet is a bad form factor for me :/11:50
scottci'd rather spend the cash and get a better camera on my phone!11:50
scottcbut the tablet should be amazing too11:51
Temeprobably, just useless for some people :P11:51
scottcyep :D11:51
scottcshame11:51
Nicd-I mean, even if it was semi useful for me I'd buy it out of support11:52
Temeespecially those who spend 16h a day on a computer like yours truly11:52
scottcheh, me too11:52
scottcthough it's for a different mode of computing for me11:52
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scottcI use my desktop/laptop for coding, games, etc. but for passive consumption of media, a tablet would be nice11:52
Nicd-I think for watching TV/movies it's too small. I had problems with my 13" laptop already11:53
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scottcmm, fair11:55
scottci'm hoping to get a 13" laptop soonish, to replace my 12.1" thinkpad with 1280x80011:55
scottci think it's mostly resolution that bothers me in this instance though11:55
Nicd-yeah, I moved from 1280x800 to 2880x1800 and it's like a new world11:56
japa-fi_Many of the cheap laptops have 1368x720 or some such  brain dead resolution11:56
scottchahah, 1366x768 is the worst resolution in the world11:57
scottcmy previous laptop had it and moving to 1280x720 was miles better11:57
japa-fi_Yeah, even my personal (old) thinkpad t400 has better.11:57
FireFlyscottc: I meant tohkbd, not a bluetooth keyboard :p11:57
Nicd-it's funny how laptop resolutions were so terrible for so long11:57
japa-fi_1440x900 or so11:57
Nicd-even with mobile phones having great ppi11:57
sharpneliNicd-: It's due to windows11:57
scottcNicd-: i think they are still terrible really, unless you get a MBP or similar11:57
FireFlysharpneli: surely it's at least partially due to production costs?11:58
Nicd-scottc: well there are quite a few pc options nowadays I think. and many have at least full hd11:58
sharpneliNicd-: While theoretically windows works on different PPI it tends to break on anything else than 96ppi11:58
FireFlyHigher risk of dead pixels and such11:58
scottcNicd-: in laptops?11:58
sharpneliFireFly: Only partly. On the other hand dead pixel doesn't matter that much if there's bazillion of em11:58
FireFlyI suppose11:58
Nicd-scottc: yeah11:59
FireFlyMy laptop has a puny 1366x768 :<  but then it was fairly cheap, and is sufficient for me11:59
Nicd-at least when I've looked. though obviously I've only searched for full hd or better11:59
scottcNicd-: like what? i didn't find many good options when i looked11:59
Nicd-scottc: but your guess is correct, I did get a MBP11:59
scottc:D11:59
Nicd-but I'm a macfag so it was natural11:59
scottcheh11:59
FireFlyI think pixel pitch (ppi) is more interesting than the resolution, tbh12:00
FireFlyI don't want a ≥15" laptop, too big/heavy for my taste12:00
scottcof course12:00
Nicd-I was hesitant with getting the 15" but it hasn't actually bothered me at all12:01
Nicd-of course that's just me12:01
scottc13" is probably as big as i would go12:01
scottcmy first laptop, a few years ago, was 17" and had 1600x900 res - funny how it's steadily gotten worse since then12:01
FireFlyHm12:01
FireFlyprisjakt.se (Swedish price comparison service with nice filters) finds 40 laptops that are ≥fullHD and ≤13"12:02
FireFlyAlthough they're all ~≥1k EUR12:02
scottcinteresting12:02
sharpneliNow with Windows 8 those started to arrive. W7 was still horrible in that regard.12:03
FireFlyhttp://www.prisjakt.nu/kategori.php?l=s215231177&o=lokal_rank#rparams=l=s215231239 the list here should be fairly browsable even without knowing the language.12:03
scottcthanks FireFly12:03
FireFlyThey look interesting, but sadly way too expensive for a student :p12:04
scottcmaybe I'm just picky, but i dread to think of what the keyboards are like in these things12:05
scottcparticularly the asus, dell, etc12:05
FireFlyCan't have it all, I guess12:05
scottcmmhm12:05
scottcso i'll just use a jolla tablet with a nice external keyboard :p12:05
FireFlyHeh, I guess that's an option too12:06
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temmi_hooscottc: a hhkbd with the bestest capacitive keys12:18
temmi_hoosadly hhkb is not available with a proper form of enter key12:18
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scottctemmi_hoo: you can get the JIS version, look up HHKB PRO JP :)12:23
scottcit has awkward stagger on the bottom row though, everything is shifted 0.25 units to allow for the extra key12:24
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temmi_hoolooking good12:31
scottcI prefer the original HHKB layout though :)12:32
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temmi_hoothe american enter is just untolerable :)13:28
temmi_hoootherwise it's okay13:28
scottci prefer ANSI enter on HHKB since it lets backspace move to the key above13:28
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temmi_hooi want klöä' though i admit the ' _could_ be considered movable13:35
temmi_hooä is immutable though13:35
scottcah13:36
Nicd-I love my KeyTronic. it's not a mechanical one but it's close :) https://plus.google.com/+MikkoAhlroth/posts/QNDtouj3vTR?pid=5904081773780306722&oid=11069323560240564056013:36
scottca friend of mine types Finnish on US layout and apparently it's comfortable, but I'm not sure of his arrangement13:36
scottcNicd-: is it foam and foil? :)13:37
Nicd-I have no idea, I'm guessing rubber dome13:38
Nicd-I haven't opened any of the keys to see inside13:38
SceltNicd-: I have a similar one. my sons are playing with it. the lightning in the space bar is awesome13:39
Sceltand the story about mid-90's, "Made in Ireland", Belfast and IRA13:39
temmi_hooScelt: he could have just disabled the äöå alltogether13:39
temmi_hooscott, not Scelt13:40
Scelt"this keyboard has seen a lot"13:40
Nicd-ooh, it is made in Ireland!13:40
Nicd-some time after 199013:40
SceltYeah! no china-crap13:40
Sceltmine has a sticker of Finnish importer from the -9613:41
temmi_hooi've got an alps mechanical i bought from dmt when it was in munkkiniemi in perhaps 1995 or so13:41
scottctemmi_hoo: no, he definitely does use the Finnish legends, just has them mapped on to an Alt Gr layer13:42
Nicd-Scelt: is it PS/2? this is DIN so I have a DIN -> PS/2 and then a PS/2 -> USB to make it work :P13:43
Stskeepstemmi_hoo: did you ever answer if you got the jerishades, ooi?13:43
SceltNicd-: it is DIN also13:44
Nicd-lack of a windows key is sometimes a problem though13:44
temmi_hooscottc: uhhh that wouldn't do for me :(13:44
temmi_hooStskeeps: not yet at least13:44
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Stskeepsok13:44
ggabrielNicd-: sadly :(13:45
temmi_hooi think only the first round has received anything yet13:45
Nicd-ggabriel: ?13:45
ggabriellack of win key13:45
temmi_hoowe (i'm with rambo and jautero and some fourth guy) backed the mature option13:45
Nicd-ggabriel: it's sad that it doesn't have one or it's sad that it's an issue?13:46
ggabrielsad that it's an issue13:46
ggabrielas it used to be win key = control+escape13:46
ggabrieland nowadays it's a bit more than that13:46
scottcNicd-: I've got plenty of winkeyless keyboards, I just map capslock to winkey13:46
Nicd-well control+escape would be pretty hard to type13:46
temmi_hoowinkey has also always been a modifier13:46
Nicd-yeah, I have capslock as winkey but it doesn't work with everything13:47
scottcggabriel: I think that's the case only for opening the windows menu, but i might be wrong13:47
Nicd-like win-l13:47
Nicd-I'm on ubuntu gnome btw, not windows13:47
temmi_hoojust pressing the winkey and releasing it has produced the equivalent action of pressing ctrl-escape13:47
ggabrielscottc: yup, it used to be that way only ,once upon a time13:47
scottcNicd-: I can share Xmodmap config with you if you'd like13:47
temmi_hooi welcomed the extra modifiers for pc keyboreds when they appeared13:47
ggabrieli even mapped mine to do whatever on linux13:47
ggabrielkind of like the old macro key13:47
scottcggabriel: ctrl+esc works for opening the menu for me on windows here13:47
scottc8.1 too!13:47
Nicd-scottc: it's too much bother since I have capslock already work as the most important function (typing to open an app)13:48
ggabrielscottc: yeah, that works, i meant other hotkeys13:48
temmi_hoohaving used xemacs on a sparcstation in early nineties helped like a lot of modifier keys13:48
scottcright right, misunderstood13:48
Nicd-also I have bound ctrl+alt+l to work in place of win+l13:48
Nicd-it just takes time to start working after I reboot my computer :D13:49
Nicd-it starts working on its own13:49
scottci don't know what you guys do, but it works fine for me everywhere i have it set up... :D13:50
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SfietKonstantinWcome on may, come quicker17:35
SfietKonstantinW2 exciting projects17:35
SfietKonstantinWtohkbd & jolla tablet17:35
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Jef91Does anyone know whatever happened with this -> http://www.thejollablog.com/jolla-launcher-for-android/ ?17:40
Jef91Did it ever get finished? If not is there a place I can find the latest testing version?17:40
raa700they released angrybirds jolla launcher17:41
Jef91raa700, is there just a generic version that looks like Sailfish OS without all the extra branding?17:43
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scottcI wonder why it is incompatible with my old Nexus 4...17:44
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Jef91Meh. Hopefully sailfish will just work on my OnePlus well enough that I won't have to screw with Android on it17:49
scottcyou should just buy a Jolla :p17:51
scottcthe best phone17:51
Jef91scottc, doesn't get 3g speeds on anything in the US17:52
Jef91I've been waiting awhile for a true Linux phone that could17:52
Jef91but my Nokia N9 just isn't cutting it any more17:52
Jef91tired of waiting17:52
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sqozzman, the jolla is driving me crazy today… the battery died over night. No i connected it to my charger and it refuses to boot. First there is the fullscreen charge logo, then the jolla boot animation and then it went black and start again. Does somebody has a idea, how i can fix that issue?18:26
sqozzs/No/Now18:26
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Sail0rlet it charge for a while sqozz18:50
Sail0rnot try to immediatly start it after it run out of battery18:50
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sqozzSail0r: it starts automaticly…19:17
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arvutwhat is the purpose of the #jolla channel? if this is the "new" place for jolla related stuff then why not simply put that channel on autoredirect to this one?20:47
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tiwakenever heard of it21:00
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MikaelaI think #jolla might belong to some other project, but no idea21:12
ljpold channel jolla had used long ago21:13
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MikaelaI see21:14
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Mikaelawould someone happen to know where does Sailwave store it's radio stations? I would like to backup that file21:24
arvutit mentions this channel in the topic21:24
arvutmight still not be related though21:25
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Mikaelawith suggestion to use grep elsewhere, I found the file, but it has strange name and appears to be sqlite database, but at least it had table called MyStations, so I think it cannot be anything else.21:39
Mikaela/home/nemo/.local/share/harbour-sailwave/harbour-sailwave/QML/OfflineStorage/Databases/f585dd9f0f1c950c0606cb0982603239.sqlite21:39
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pdanekWhich one is better, Li-Pol or Li-Ion?21:46
pdanekThinkpad T450 has optional battery choices, eityer 3-cell Li-Pol or 4-cell Li-Ion or 6-cell Li-Ion.21:46
pdanekDoes it mean that Li-Pol is better, but harder to manufacture with bigger capacity?21:47
Ezko_Unlike cylindrical and prismatic cells, LiPos come in a soft package or pouch, which makes them lighter but also lack rigidity.21:48
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M4rtinKIIRC Li-Pol should have better capacity22:02
M4rtinKbut (at least used to be) more explosive22:02
M4rtinK*is22:02
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M4rtinKbut that information is based mostly on model aircraft batteries, not really electronics batteries22:04
pdanekDoes Li-Pol have longer lifetime?22:07
pdanekDoes it lose its capacity slower than Li-Ion?22:07
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