#jollamobile log for Tuesday, 2015-07-07

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zhxtmorning00:37
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HtheBhi00:55
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pphehe, so mwcshanghai and then summer vacation :D07:50
pp... and update is delayed again, THANKS OPENSSL07:53
Yanielwut07:54
pphttps://grahamcluley.com/2015/07/mystery-high-severity-bug-openssl/07:54
ppand https://twitter.com/AnttiSaarnio/status/61826856218087014407:54
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Nicd-oh openssl, yet again08:37
entilwhatever they'll announce will be delayed for at least two months ;P08:38
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Stskeepstablet delayed due to openssl?08:38
Stskeeps:P08:38
ggabrielthe big question is: will I get excited too?08:38
entilvery few news are worth the advance buzz08:39
ggabrielwhat do you mean sailfish isn't using libressl? :P08:39
Yaniel^08:39
entiljust drop the surprise on people and it'll be better08:39
ggabrielwell, if you want attention, you have to create the thrill08:39
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entilin some cases, yes, but jolla is still a startup with understandable delays, and as much as I love my tohkbd, that was a buzz thing and it was delayed as well, so when people come from a mindset of delays, just let them be and drop the surprises on them :P08:40
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Obi-Lantadzik: black / white with curly birch back. I was planning to sell phone and keyboard as a "bundle" so that I get rid of both09:42
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tadzikObi-Lan: ah. I may be interested in tohkbd if sold separately09:56
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chem|stObi-Lan: 50eur for both...10:38
dr_gogeta86http://events.ccc.de/camp/2015/wiki/Static:Network#Jolla.2Fconnman10:40
dr_gogeta86are SBJ a l33t Phone ?10:40
ggabrieldepends10:44
ggabriela lot of self proclaimed l33t use android10:44
ggabrielor even worse, windows :P10:44
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Sail0rhttps://jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/53_JOLLA_COMPANY_STRUCTURE_JULY2015_FINAL.PDF11:09
entilmeh, I thought that was always known to happen11:12
mornfallwell, we can only hope this isn't an euphemism for dropping the device business11:14
Stskeepswe only use sailor terms for euphemisms11:15
mornfalls,dropping,sinking, :P11:15
Coolgeekhu ?11:15
CoolgeekI tought about buying one of those phone. is it goind down ?11:15
Coolgeekthought*11:15
ggabrielCoolgeek: read the pdf11:16
mornfallCoolgeek: not more than for the last 18 months, no ;-P11:16
Stskeepsno, you can still very much buy a jolla phone :)11:16
ggabrielif anything, it's good news11:16
* ggabriel wonders wo11:17
mornfallbtw. the bit about Tomi Pienimäki is kinda unclear, is he leaving Jolla?11:18
* ggabriel ^H^Hwho will fund the devices business11:18
ggabrielyes11:18
ggabrielhow is it unclear?11:18
mornfallwell, I have no clue what is the connection to the rest of the text11:18
ggabriel"has been appointed to a new position outside the company"11:18
mornfalland someone (else, probably) is going to head the devices firm11:19
ggabrielthat will be announced soon ;)11:19
mornfallnot saying whom, but maybe we are supposed to infer it's Tomi?11:19
ggabriel(during this autumn)11:19
ggabrieli wouldn't assume that11:20
mornfallthe press release is in the best tradition of confusing communication from Jolla11:20
ggabrielbut could be11:20
Stskeepsmornfall: Finnish media says non-Jolla11:20
ggabrielmaybe i'm missing something, but to me it's 100% clear11:20
mornfallthis sounds a bit like 'we are falling apart, but everything is totally fine!' ...11:21
ggabrielfunny how that's the first reaction11:21
ppyep, vincit11:21
ggabrielbut nobody ever says that when HP among others fire 30x the size of jolla11:21
chem|stthat outsourcing devices is that devices will be sailfish-secure (from what I read)11:22
mornfallggabriel: well, why would you put 'we are losing our CEO and our hardware division' in a single press release anyway...11:22
Stskeepss/losing/changing/g11:22
chem|stmornfall: they swapped positions depending on what is next in the past11:23
ggabrielyou change, yeah11:23
ggabrielnot sure why that looks like losing11:23
Stskeepsand it's pretty clear that SW is the future for sailfish anyway11:23
kimmoliPienimäki is moving to Vincit Group Oy11:23
pphow big was the hardware division anyway :-)11:23
mornfallall I say is that the release is sending a rather confusing message, ami slipping tablet schedule11:23
chem|stthat is actually a good idea to have always that person with the most experience in the next steps be the ceo11:23
mornfallamid*11:24
chem|stmornfall: slipping tablet was in blog post yesterday11:24
mornfalland a month before that, yes11:24
chem|stmornfall: swapping positions happened before11:24
mornfalldressed up like it was good news, too :P11:24
chem|stmornfall: device business was told to be seized but now gets outsourced for sailfish-secure11:25
chem|stmornfall: the only news there is that tomi leaves11:25
ggabrielchem|st: +111:26
ggabrielalso, that they'll spin off a device business, but i'll believe it when i see it11:26
chem|stand probably that sf-secure is a new company and not a joint-venture11:26
chem|sts/sf-secure/sf-secure-devices11:27
* Stskeeps looks forward to his upcoming vacation to be fresh for another year of great possibilities11:34
Nicd-ooh now the news is public11:35
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Stskeepsooi what does vincit do anyway?11:38
Nicd-software11:38
Stskeepsah11:38
Nicd-I think software contractor is an appropriate term? anyway we make programs that clients give us money for11:39
Stskeepsconsultants11:39
Stskeepsmaybe11:39
Stskeepsdunno :)11:39
Nicd-I don't know the English terms11:39
ggabrielbody shop :P11:40
ggabrielwith a nice portal11:40
birdzhangHey,any news about jolla 2 ? :)11:44
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Stskeepsbirdzhang: not really related but http://jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/53_JOLLA_COMPANY_STRUCTURE_JULY2015_FINAL.PDF as a start11:46
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birdzhangwow11:50
birdzhangJuly 15-17 :D11:50
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ursSoo... will nokia now buy jolla's device section?11:53
SfietKonstantinWurs: IMO: no11:53
SfietKonstantinWNokia have thier own hardware dep11:54
ggabrielreally?11:54
ppnot really, they sold it to microsoft11:54
ggabrieldidn't they get rid of pretty much everything?11:54
ggabrieli'd be surprised if they still have whiteboards11:54
YanielAFAIK nokia is basically only NSN these days11:54
ppNSN, maps, some clever r&d people and patent trolls11:55
ggabrielmaps*11:55
ggabriel;)11:55
ggabrielwasn't that on sale?11:55
SfietKonstantinWpp: the Nokia N1 is from Nokia11:56
SfietKonstantinWfoxcom makes it11:56
SfietKonstantinWbut they designed it11:56
tadzikah, so the new company will not be called Jolla anymore11:57
HarhaanJohtajajolla mobile oy i guess11:57
HarhaanJohtajahttps://www.ytj.fi/yritystiedot.aspx?yavain=2529240&kielikoodi=1&tarkiste=A0B9DF8395E0E603BE8DF4D8091E3784178B2DC7&path=1547;1631;167811:59
SfietKonstantinWisn't Jolla Mobile Oy the name of Jolla currently ?12:00
SfietKonstantinWor is it Jolla Oy ?12:00
HarhaanJohtajaJolla Oy12:00
StskeepsSfietKonstantinW: no, jolla oy12:00
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chem|sttadzik: I doubt that customers will feel a difference12:02
ggabrielsame address :)12:02
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tadzikprolly not12:03
chem|stone side effect is one can go bankrupt without the other12:03
ggabrielthat's normally seen as a benefit in small companies12:04
ggabrielas there is less risk12:04
chem|st+112:04
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ggabrieland less things to explain to stakeholders12:04
ggabrielwho normally know nothing about anything12:04
chem|styou can try things without getting the main company into jopardy12:04
* ggabriel loves vc's12:04
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dr_gogeta86Stskeeps, I hope into an increasing quality of the whole thing12:19
dr_gogeta86if you need to make changes to survive12:19
dr_gogeta86I agree12:19
ggabrielmore $$ => more quality12:20
ggabrielit's simple12:20
dr_gogeta86sammmy for example  more $$ => copycat ?12:20
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rigo:( What will be the hardware? Didn't it make sufficient money?13:37
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ggabrielrigo: no, not really :)13:47
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rigo:( How come Apple is making so much more money with Hardware?14:07
ggabrielpeople buy their products because steve jobs was "cool"?14:07
ggabrielbut they'll eventually die14:07
ggabrielthey haven't innovated in years14:07
ggabrieland at some point people will realize that14:08
tadziknah, I think people actually buy it because it's pretty good14:10
chem|sttadzik: doubt that14:11
tadzikat least that's the case for people I know who buy their stuff14:11
ggabrieltadzik: it became better, but remember the first iphone14:11
ggabrieland even today you can only take purple pictures with it :P14:12
tadzikit used to surprise me when I saw tech people using macs and iphones, but I quickly found that they're just pragmatically buying it, not because they're mindless zealots14:12
chem|sttadzik: people buy apple for three reasons, they know android and can afford it, they know android and know how to save money, it is hipster14:12
ggabrielwell, i did buy a powerbook g4 in the past because the price was alright and i could do a number of things with it then14:13
dr_gogeta86ios works14:13
dr_gogeta86android not14:13
chem|sttadzik: don't know iP6 but all previous versions had massive hardware flaws and software wise, well one button to rule them all is nothing I could ever adapt to14:13
ggabrielnow it just doesn't make sense as all the intel macs are of lower build quality and super pricey14:13
tadzikchem|st: I don't follow: they know android and can afford... android? iphone?14:13
tadzikknow how to save money on what, iphones, androids?14:13
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chem|sttadzik: buy apple14:13
* rigo doesn't believe in money making software, especially not based in this open source. But I believe in money making hardware that is combined with good software14:14
tadzikchem|st: I think ip6 was the one that bent, actually14:14
tadzikchem|st: why would I14:14
ggabrielrigo: ever heard of redhat? :P14:14
chem|sttadzik: you are drunnk14:14
tadzikno, I'm not14:14
tadzikbut I understand you're trolling, so I'll just leave it at that14:14
chem|sttadzik: what part of "people buy apple for three reasons" didn't you understand14:14
tadzikthe 2/3 of that sentence that doesn't mention apple at all14:15
rigoggabriel: of course, but they aren't making money on user facing software14:15
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chem|sttadzik: same sentence...14:15
tadziknevermind14:15
narchiebut14:15
narchieapple doesn't ship may 201514:15
ggabrielrigo: is that relevant?14:15
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rigoI believe so14:16
ggabrielhow come?14:16
tadzikit seems that iphones and ipads are like the gaming consoles in a way: obviously more expensive and technically inferior, but end up being a decent experience for users because it's trivial for developers to aim at a uniform hardware+software stack14:17
ggabrieltadzik: i have to agree partly with chem|st's fanboism statement as I find myself troubleshooting very basic stuff for friends with iThings14:18
tadzikI don't think it's different on any other platform ever14:18
tadzikmy linux laptop doesn't react to the power button14:19
ggabrielso then your argument about superior ux is invalid14:19
tadzikmy windows pc at work cannot be forced to make use of my trackpoint properly14:19
tadzikwait, which14:19
ggabrielunless you refer to users needing support in all platforms but that you believe that overall ios's ux is better than android's etc14:19
tadzikI don't believe I said that14:20
Accemost people I know just buy Apple because they have been projected the image of them being better than Android14:20
Accethis being the people who are clueless about technology14:20
ggabrieltadzik: you said that people buy ithings because they provide a better ux? or did i misunderstand? (you also said they work better, or they just work)14:20
sharpneliOn the other hand iPhones indeed are far better than android in several applications.14:20
sharpneliAudio stack is a good example14:20
ggabriel(nothing wrong with that tadzik - my next biz phone will be an iphone because it "works better than android")14:21
tadzikggabriel: no, I said that people buy iThings because they consider them to be good14:21
ggabrieltadzik: ok, fair enough14:21
sharpneliAnd touch screen latency. It's simply impossible to make a real music playing app (as in a piano keyboard) for Android devices14:21
ggabrielso the real question is why they consider it good14:21
ggabrieland i'd agree with fanboism there14:21
sharpneliBecause it takes around 200ms for the sound to come on Android.14:21
tadzikggabriel: then again, I never used iPhone for more than a few minutes, given my experience with android I don't think anything can suck any more than that :)14:21
chem|stggabriel: very basic is sometimes "holding a spoon"14:21
tadziks/given/but given/14:21
ggabrielsharpneli: i doubt any of the people i know looked at the android sound stack :P14:21
sharpneliggabriel: It was just an example of a real performance difference. How an user will see it: You have good music apps on app store but barely any on google play14:22
ggabrielchem|st: exactly, and that's my point and that proves that the ux is crap14:22
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sharpneliAnd the touch screen latency causes the UI to feel really sluggish for some people. On iPhones a scroll or anything like that starts within few tens of ms. On android it can take hundreds. So it feels unresponsive to a certain portion of population.14:23
ggabrielsharpneli: you should try my iphone 4 :P14:23
chem|stsharpneli: people posting pixeled or unsharp pictures on FB are 99% apple fanboys14:23
sharpneliggabriel: Add a disclaimer "non updated iPhone" :D14:23
sharpneliggabriel: Because every damn iOS update always makes the older phones feel like shit, for obvious marketing reasons.14:24
ggabrielsharpneli: ...forcing you to buy another ithing14:24
chem|sttadzik: that is why I said people who know android buy apple if they can afford it...14:24
ggabrieli agree with chem|st 100% there, at least judging by the people i know14:25
sharpnelichem|st: Sure. Just wanted to point out that there are areas where iDevices are technically superior to android ones. And there aint really anything from the opposite direction.14:25
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tadzikchem|st: that's what I was trying to get: buy *apple* if they can afford it. Now I'm not confused, thanks14:25
tadzikand yes, for that reason I'd be more inclined to buy an iphone than an android phone14:26
tadzikwith no fanboyism attached14:26
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chem|stwe had a discussion about iPhones lately with an iP6 user at the table, two women stated that they despise iPhones because of the weak touchscreen performance, end of it all was that nothing but the iPhone6 camera is supprerior to the phones on the table, comparison was 4 different androids in the <350eur range... and even that was just slightly better than Jolla14:28
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ggabrielchem|st: superior camera with purple pictures? :P14:29
chem|sttadzik: it was a pretty simple sentence14:30
chem|stggabriel: tinted does happen in odd light conditions on close to all phone cameras, including N9 and N90014:31
chem|stit is the auto whitebalance that does not work properly it seems14:31
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chem|stadding up with sensor colour quality limitations14:32
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rigoggabriel: sorry, got distracted by phone. I still believe that the integration of hardware & software is the better option. There is no pairing to the linux desktop. Redhat never made money with desktops, only with servers. As is IBM.15:43
tiwakehttp://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Jolla-Split-Device-License15:43
rigobut I don't see this happening on the frontend side. So to me, the jolla device is one ensemble that gets me out of the google or apple world15:44
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rigobecause it allows me to do things differently. And I do not believe in the fantastic UI and bla. I had Citroen cars with better UI than most cars, ok.15:45
rigoI rather believe in a phone that has an openSSH server on it15:45
rigoand a native linux on it15:45
rigoand no nudging towards some silo15:45
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rigobut looks like they are not given the time to become famous enough and to succeed15:46
rigojolla is at 80% before the networking effects kick in15:47
rigobut anyway15:47
rigo</rant>15:47
rigoI'll try to get one before they stop making them15:47
rigoI also have a working N9 after all :)15:47
chem|strigo: if Jolla fails I will probably stop buying smartphones until some other linux company suits my needs15:49
chem|stjust like after N9, I did not buy anything until Jolla, I still have a working N900 and N915:50
Stskeepsrigo: in practice it's about knowing how to do good products and work with what's available on HW's nowadays15:50
chem|stI would pay 800eur for a state of the are N900 like device15:50
Stskeepsfirst one can be brought to ODMs just fine15:50
chem|stexploiting cheap android hw supplies, just like Wii made anything with gyro/accelerometers darn cheap15:52
dr_gogeta86chem|st, cheap ... and also expencive15:53
chem|stdr_gogeta86: ?15:53
dr_gogeta86Cheap devices sometime rely on cheap hacks to get the things done15:54
dr_gogeta86just see chinese mtk15:54
dr_gogeta86this is pretty cheap on ODM15:57
dr_gogeta86http://it.wikomobile.com/m546-RIDGE-4G15:57
dr_gogeta86and quiet Cheap on Shelf15:57
dr_gogeta86but something like One+15:59
dr_gogeta86was a good showcase15:59
dr_gogeta86but until the ports aren't good like Jolla Phone15:59
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dr_gogeta86we talk about nothing16:00
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ggabrielrigo: uhm... yours is a valid believe, but look at what m$ did a couple of decades ago16:21
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ggabrielsailfish may well survive in the same model16:21
ggabrieland this isn't exactly the android model, well at least hopefully16:21
ggabrielalso, hopefully the spinoff will continue selling jolla 1's :P16:23
ggabrielor they do a massive slae and i'll get another one16:23
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r0kk3rzwhich company gets 'together'? i would assume the software division16:31
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r0kk3rzas theres only so much input you can have on hardware16:32
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rigoggabriel: and look how m$ is desperately trying to get back into the mobile market without any chance.16:48
rigofirst they tried the licensing model that works so well on desktops for them16:48
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rigothen they wrecked several billions16:49
rigothen they wrecked nokia16:49
rigosplitting will be deadly IMHO. But that's just me and I'm not in the board of jolla and have no actual counts16:50
pdanek"We have now decided to continue the Jolla devices business under a new company,focusing on security enhanced devices."16:50
Stskeepsrigo: they were big before, though16:51
pdanekNew BlackBerry?16:51
rigomaybe, when the reserved time with m$ runs out, jolla will provide the software for new nokia phones, if they survive until then16:51
rigonobody wants security phones. They are not usable. Jolla was a good compromise between good enough and usable16:52
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rigothing missing was running the android apps in a sandboxed virtual machine without giving them a way to store things on hardware :)16:52
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sharpneliI have a strong hunch that the split is because they must fullfill the jolla tablet but at the same time they are required by someone else not to manufacture their own devices anymore16:53
sharpneliSo the splitted off company just finishes the tablet and that will be that16:53
chem|stggabriel: best thing Jolla Mobile can start with is bring Jolla1.1 and tohkbd on stock - as developer devices or even jolla-developer, the sandwich of Jolla1 I suggested years back16:54
rigosharpneli: this would hint at nokia :)16:54
chem|stggabriel: with sf-secure hardware of course16:54
rigochem|st: they can't do that as it would wreck havoc in iPhone space :)16:55
rigolet alone in S4-6 space where you have to charge battery after half a day ...16:55
r0kk3rzrigo: why would this hint at nokia? and not say the recent talks with Russia?16:57
rigo20 years experience. The russians will not make a phone (or only one that you can handle with a hammer)16:58
rigounless yandex is getting serious and wants to make the yandex - android16:59
rigowhich I can imagine. But they miss the social networking parts for the lock-in needed that is the juicy bit of android16:59
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r0kk3rzwell, given the 'local services' rhetoric, surely it would be yandex-sailfish17:00
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Stskeepssharpneli: the main game is the sw platform; HW is more risky, one botched product (hypothetical) and entire SW platform sinks along with it.. doesn't make sense17:25
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pdanekTMavica: here?17:26
sharpneliStskeeps: That's true. However to move into the platform game one needs manufacturers to adopt it.17:27
sharpneliI'm waiting eagerly for the announcements17:27
Stskeepsi'm just waiting for my vacatio17:30
Stskeepsn17:30
r0kk3rzwoo vacation!17:30
pdanekI'm still waiting for Jolla 2!!!17:30
pdanekI already promised my girlfriend 2 months ago that I will buy her Jolla 2, c'monnnn17:31
svuorelaStskeeps: if you get near me, I'll happily buy you a beer on brewpub.17:31
Stskeepssvuorela: i'll be in cph for a few hours sometime in august, but will have kiddo and wife along17:31
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* Stskeeps looks forward to the future17:34
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Stskeepshttp://techcrunch.com/2015/07/07/mobile-maker-jolla-splits-in-two-with-sailfish-os-its-first-order-of-business/ is a good article, btw17:36
pdanekHe said the forthcoming Jolla devices business could even consider using  alternative software platforms in addition to Sailfish — by offering  multi-OS devices.17:38
pdanekThat means everyday user will just switch to Android on 2nd day of use.17:38
Stskeepswouldn't be so sure about that17:40
svuorelawhy would anyone go out of the way for a sailfish device just to not use it ?17:40
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r0kk3rzpresumably a 'multi-os-device' would be single device that would be sold in different OS flavours17:41
pdanekright17:41
r0kk3rznot a dual-boot phone or anything like that17:41
pdanekok17:41
pdanekI just need new device soon.17:42
pdanekJolla is getting old.17:42
Stskeepskinda like ubuntu's is just same device as their normal android phone?17:42
r0kk3rzthe meizu thing, yeah17:42
pdanekNow it's getting time when people's Jolla are getting out of warranty.17:43
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pdanekSo it's time for new device now.17:43
falfai dont agree17:43
pdanekI do think that 2 years is maximum range that should be between 2 devices.17:44
r0kk3rzi think that time frame is going to start stretching17:44
r0kk3rzthe phones coming out now arent so far removed from the phones being released two years ago17:45
Siddeis the hardware really so necessary to replace? sure the screen is at a lower end17:45
r0kk3rzthey've all got nice screens, decent processing power .etc17:45
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Siddebut do you really need a faster cpu or more ram?17:45
Siddebetter written software could solve a lot of problem17:45
r0kk3rzthe jphone is more like a 4 year old phone, so a refresh would be nice17:45
Stskeepsr0kk3rz: msm8930aa was actually fairly new in november 201317:46
Stskeepsand modem17:46
Siddei use my jolla as my only phone and i can't say i'm in need of any faster device. But a better screen would be nice, especially a screen that would work better outside17:46
pdanekI bought some super-cheap (130 EUR) Android phone recently in Vietnam, some unknown brand.17:46
pdanekAnd it works much better than my Sailfish does. Octacore CPU, good camera, great screen, 2G ram17:46
pdanekWhy would anyone still buy Jolla at this point? I mean general public who doesn't really care about OS.17:46
pdanekIt's blazing fast comparing to my Jolla and that's a cheap Android phone.17:47
Siddethe normal person don't care about the specs on a computer anymore17:47
Siddeexcept maybe storage space17:47
pdanekThey do, if the phone is slow as hell. :D17:47
r0kk3rzStskeeps: still on the lower end of the spectrum though. Not a criticism, im sure you guys did the best you could at the time17:48
Siddebut many phones are slow because of shitty written software17:48
Stskeepsr0kk3rz: sure, not disagreeing17:48
Stskeepsr0kk3rz: considering we had 6 months between our chipset vendor going down and shipping a device, then yes, we did well17:48
Siddecan jolla write a better browser it might not feel slow17:48
svuorela..talking about screens. my oneplus phone - I can't see the screen while wearing sunglasses. No problems on my jolla.17:49
chem|stSidde: it already is a better browser... and it is FOSS too17:49
chem|stsvuorela: oneplus you get electrecuted by swiping the back while standing unGNDed17:50
Siddechem|st: sure, but i mean a browser that maybe can think a bit different when handling slower cpus and lesser ram. Better usage of cache, maybe prioritize javascript better. So it does not stall the entire browser17:51
Siddeif you really want to utilize older hardware i mean17:51
chem|stthere is no point in supporting old hardware while new is coming at 80eur the piece17:52
chem|st*a piece17:52
pdanekchem|st: +++17:52
chem|stand in terms of browser, it is always ram and how fast the device may swap17:52
Siddei don't bother with replacing old stuff every other year17:53
Siddemy avarage phone last about 5-6 years for me17:53
SiddeMy Ericsson T39 lasted 7 years i think17:53
chem|stas subsidized contracts are mostly gone in .de it can also be 3-4 years... about the time a battery lasts17:53
Siddei replaced the battery 2 times on that one17:54
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pdanekWhen I travel Asia, I see dozens of various unknown brands of Android devices. Yes, the OS may be shitty on them, but HW is still powerful and it comes for supercheap price. So in comparison to that, Jolla still looks as really old HW with overpriced price.17:54
chem|st? I did not replace any battery on any phone yet17:55
chem|steven my N900 is running on its first17:55
chem|stpdanek: margin makes the price17:55
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pdanekIt was "OK" to buy 2 years ago, not an amazing deal, but OK to buy, but now it's overpriced like iPhone is. :D17:56
Siddei miss those larger batteries. I had a vacation of 50 days in the US 2003. Did not charge the phone during the entire time17:56
chem|stsell 2M phones in asia and you can sell it for 80eur in EU17:56
StskeepsSidde: http://www.dx.com/p/a7-led-white-flashlight-power-bank-gsm-phone-w-tf-dual-sim-2-0-screen-bluetooth-red-352821#.VWGCMFmeDGc17:56
pdanekBasically people who buy Jolla now can be blamed to buy overpriced phone same as iPhone guys are getting blamed.17:56
pdanekchem|st: right17:57
SiddeStskeeps: nice one17:57
chem|stSidde: that is not the battery's size... that is the low consumption...17:57
Siddechem|st: that too17:57
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Siddechem|st: but the normal battery with that one only lasted a few weeks17:57
Sidde;)17:58
StskeepsSidde: http://qz.com/411330/the-mystery-of-the-power-bank-phone-taking-over-ghana/17:58
Siddechem|st: ofcourse it's the power consumption. But i miss those days the phones did actually work as phones17:58
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Siddegood reception, good battery and good microphones17:58
Siddereception with these smartphones sucks bigtime17:59
Siddeas a sailor i like having a good gsm phone17:59
YanielStskeeps: about every paragraph makes me think "no shit Sherlock"18:02
chem|stSidde: it is not the phones reception, it is the networks getting bad, we have now reduced gsm coverage, weak 3G and mindblowing 4g but no volte18:02
chem|stSidde: as a sailor? I like to have a good satelite phone18:03
Siddechem|st: maybe in general yes. But i can still use old nokia phones on gsm out on the water where it's maybe an hour or 2 away from reception on my smartphone18:03
Siddechem|st: for coastal sailing having a satelite phone is a bit overkill18:04
Yanielthey are literally listing the tings people complain about18:04
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Siddeespecially in sweden and finland where almost the entire baltic sea is covered with broadband thanks to net1 and 450mhz network18:04
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chem|stI never lost cell reception on coastal sailing apart of around islands, mainland reception was always good not to say great (as we had a mobile hotspot with us)18:05
Siddechem|st: what is your definition of coastal sailint then? eventually you are to far away18:05
Siddechem|st: so if you never lost it you've never sailed far out to the sea18:05
chem|stnever lost it on coastal sailing, 15 miles out there is no cell reception... ever18:06
chem|styou are probably already out of src range18:07
Siddeok, we can sail pretty far out with good reception18:07
Yanieland the main point "wtf why does such a thing sell at all" well, it solves a problem people keep having, that's why18:08
chem|stin the baltic sea, yes there are stations specifically installed to support this18:08
Siddeyep18:08
Yaniela problem you don't have to go to ghana to notice18:08
Siddechem|st: very few people uses vhf radios, so having a good phone with good reception is very handy18:09
chem|stfew? you mean on shore few18:09
Siddesailors in the baltic18:10
chem|stbad sailors18:10
Siddethe ships uses satelite, AIS is the norm for smaller vessels too18:10
chem|stand how do you get the number of the other vessel?18:10
Siddeyou don't18:10
chem|stI stick to my radio then!18:11
Siddechem|st: very different types of sailors in scandinavia compared to the america18:11
chem|stnever been to america sailing18:11
Siddeok, where do you sail?18:11
chem|steurope18:12
chem|stcurrently18:12
Sidde1/3 of the people in sweden had boats in the 70's. And with almost no rules and regulations it just became what it is18:12
chem|stwell I live in germany, without LCC I do not even get a charter18:12
Siddethere is no boat register and such. But it's heavily restricted to use radios18:13
Siddeso people never bother buying radios18:13
chem|stI am saving to get all licenses done within the next couple of years18:13
SiddeLCC?18:14
chem|stsome are pretty expensive, some are cheap18:14
chem|stboat license18:14
r0kk3rzthere was a rather large number of swedes/norges around the adriatic when i was sailing a few weeks ago18:14
falfaoh dear18:14
Siddechem|st: we don't have much formal stuff like that for boats less than 12meters long and 4 meters wide18:14
r0kk3rzour skipper almost never touched the radio, but was always on his mobile18:14
Siddechem|st: i have no formal licences or anything like that and i own 2 boats, one motorboat and one sailboat18:15
Helleegh, for long range GSM, why not http://qz.com/411330/the-mystery-of-the-power-bank-phone-taking-over-ghana/ ;)18:16
chem|stfor us it starts at >5HP motors, sea is then unlimited as long as it is private18:16
chem|stinland is limited to 15m18:16
Siddechem|st: shit18:16
Siddechem|st: that's rough...18:16
chem|styeah you cannot even go fishing without a license18:16
chem|stat least not with a decent sized boat18:17
Siddewe don't even need insurance here18:17
jfredooh, Jolla splitting in two... that actually sounds like a pretty good idea18:17
Siddefor damage to others it's covered by the housing insurance anyway.18:18
chem|stSidde: most costal eu countries have very limited rules if rules at all18:18
chem|stin france you get a charter without any license18:18
Siddechem|st: here too18:18
Siddechem|st: i used to charter boats before i bought my own18:18
chem|stnot quiet there yet, missing a couple of euros...18:19
chem|stand I live in the woods literaly18:19
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Siddechem|st: :)18:20
chem|stwant to move to hamburg in the next couple of years, just need to find a good job there18:20
chem|stso gtg18:20
chem|stbb18:20
Siddechem|st: http://home.frontslash.org/gallery/index.php?dir=%2FSailing%2F2014_Sailing&page=&prev=20140710-012.jpg18:21
Siddechem|st: my boat18:21
Siddechem|st: ok, bye18:21
kimmoliharbour seems to be 50218:25
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r0kk3rzonoz its dead18:30
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kimmolipaep18:52
kimmolion oz...18:53
kimmolizo uo18:53
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r0kk3rzoz no19:04
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chem|stSidde: neat :)21:07
the_mgtare there any insights on future bluetooth->android developement?21:09
the_mgtthings like Torque with OBD2 adapters, etc21:09
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kimmoliget a wifi obd2 adapter, works fine with torque21:24
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the_mgtit is not just about Torque, there is Parrot Zik, Livescribe 3 pen, etc etc21:28
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chem|stthe_mgt: aren't those BTLE?22:08
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